[toyobaru]

Read this off the province and made me :facepalm:

Rob Morgan says when you wake up after getting blasted on hand sanitizer it feels like your kidney is bulging out of your body.

The longer you drink it, the more you see sparkling light at the edge of your eyes. That’s the first step in going blind from guzzling cheap illicit booze, the doctor tells him.

Morgan, a First Nations man from a reserve near Terrace, hopes to reduce the harmful impact of addicts ingesting cheap, illicit alcohol by landing funding for a peer-run drinker’s lounge.

The envisioned lounge would offer free legal alcohol in the Downtown Eastside.

Morgan and about 40 members of the Eastside Illicit Drinkers Group for Education see this as the next step in Vancouver’s harm reduction movement, like a supervised injection site, for illicit drinkers who typically ingest Listerine, hand sanitizer or rubbing alcohol.

Illicit drinkers can squeeze about 30 standard drinks from a 250 ml bottle of 95 per cent rubbing alcohol by diluting servings with water, experts say, for the cost of about $3.

Morgan says addicts will turn over their welfare cheques to illicit booze brokers, adding he sees “dealers” in the Downtown Eastside carrying large vats of hand sanitizer stolen from hospitals.

He says the damage done is easy to see in the Downtown Eastside and in cities in norther B.C. He knows a number of peers that have died from alcohol poisoning, freezing to death outside, or “getting shanked” in an argument stemming from the fast and powerful buzz that comes from illicit booze.

“I myself am one of the one’s that suffers,” Morgan said Tuesday in an interview. “Each one of us wakes up with those demons staring at us in our face, and that’s why we drink it.”

Started in July, Eastside Illicit Drinkers Group for Education has landed $52,000 in a research grant, with aims to gather clinical evidence across B.C. on the benefits of alcohol maintenance programs.

Within the next year they hope to produce research in order to help land a partner in the health care sector to fund a Downtown Eastside drinker’s lounge stocked with vodka, sherry and high-alcohol beer.

Advocates say at a cost of about $350 per month per drinker, alcohol maintenance programs can reduce policing costs and medical fees associated to frequent emergency room visits for illicit booze drinkers.

Morgan says there would be counselling, health and detox referral services provided at the drinker’s lounge, and the group would maintain a database to monitor outcomes.

“It would be members only because once word gets out it is free alcohol everyone that just wants a free drink would show up,” he said.



Read more: Illicit Drinkers seek free alcohol lounge in Vancouvers Downtown Eastside (http://www.theprovince.com/news/Illicit+Drinkers+seek+free+alcohol+lounge+Vancouve r+Downtown+Eastside/5975057/story.html#ixzz1jAQA8M9D)

[Supafly]

One word explains it all....."jesus" ....more of my tax money going waste; why do we care so much for these types of people, they have enough support from the gov't already....I think its time they start giving back to the community... and being exterminated would be a great start.

"alcohol maintenance programs can reduce policing costs and medical fees associated to frequent emergency room visits for illicit booze drinkers."

WHAT really??...last time I was involved in a fight was because it was alcohol related, this will just add to more stupid drunk idiots roaming our streets causing an issue to society; GOOD GOD. How the hell are we still one of the best places to live when we have this kinda shit going on?

[drunkrussian]

wow...only in vancouver
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[toyobaru]

One word explains it all....."jesus" ....more of my tax money going waste; why do we care so much for these types of people, they have enough support from the gov't already....I think its time they start giving back to the community... and being exterminated would be a great start.

"alcohol maintenance programs can reduce policing costs and medical fees associated to frequent emergency room visits for illicit booze drinkers."

WHAT really??...last time I was involved in a fight was because it was alcohol related, this will just add to more stupid drunk idiots roaming our streets causing an issue to society; GOOD GOD. How the hell are we still one of the best places to live when we have this kinda shit going on?

I have to say I agree with you too. WHY DO WE CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE?! If this guy had a degree or something I might say he could have some valid points about something. But this guy is probably some idiot who roams skid row. If you cant afford alcohol what are you doing drinking it.

[gdoh]

He says the damage done is easy to see in the Downtown Eastside and in cities in norther B.C. He knows a number of peers that have died from alcohol poisoning, freezing to death outside, or “getting shanked” in an argument stemming from the fast and powerful buzz that comes from illicit booze.

“I myself am one of the one’s that suffers,” Morgan said Tuesday in an interview. “Each one of us wakes up with those demons staring at us in our face, and that’s why we drink it.”

http://t5ak.roblox.com/546b381109a16d11597b03f5629cb323

[Hondaracer]

Yay racism points!
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[melloman]

Holy fuck this is retarded.. If the government even CONSIDERS this, I vote that we ALL boycott any BCL or government owned liqour store to fuck them over for liqour sales. Give back to OUR communities by buying liqour from the private establishments.

[InvisibleSoul]

Sometimes the good ideas are right there in front of you.

This ain't one of them.

[murd0c]

Gotta love our tax dollar's at work...

[inkcognito]

another shithead taking advantage of the people's money.

[vafanculo]

Governments perspective:

Let's increase tax on gas, so that large group of society who goes to work daily is forced to take transit so they can afford to go to work.

Let's increase the price of transit so that said group above can chip in for some bike lanes for that group of 30 ppl who bike to work in the summer, and that odd ball person who will use it in the winter.

Then, let's increase property tax, so that said group from above needs to relocate farther from work so they can afford to live comfortably, but then have to resort to go back to driving. Oh yeah, let's also ding them to use a bridge or two, I mean, if they want to go to work on time that is.

Oh, and that group who is responsble for crime, drugs and diseases? Let's give them free drugs, booze, and health care.

Sometimes I feel mayor quimby is running things.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[winson604]

Pre drink at said lounge before clubbing now?

[Nightwalker]

I'm interested in seeing how the research pans out.

These programs are a fantastic way to build bridges between addicts and recovery programs. It seems kind of like using bait to lure them into recovery.

[Gridlock]

Why does the government double dip with all the natives on the east side? If your giving money to the reserve for rehabilitation etc why should they pay for shit like this for people that left the reserves
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Because reserves aren't supposed to be internment camps for people you don't like.

[Gridlock]

I have to say I agree with you too. WHY DO WE CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE?! If this guy had a degree or something I might say he could have some valid points about something. But this guy is probably some idiot who roams skid row. If you cant afford alcohol what are you doing drinking it.

Another excellent post on the subject. So if he was a doctor that got his kicks off of drinking hand sanitizer, we'd stop and listen, but because he's a guy that has been there and done that and seen the people first hand doing it, he's an idiot that can't think of a way to solve a problem?

I am one of the people that are really starting to hate the way this province is run. Any little group that has its hands out for some desperate cause gets fed. The group that funds all this shit, you know the middle class gets the shaft. You make too much to take advantage of the free part of the system, but not enough to take advantage of the cake part of the system at the top.

Here is the only way to get my support for something like this. You claim its revenue neutral? Prove it. I want less hospital time, less crime and more stats on the above. How many of your people are entering recovery programs? Make it an investment, not a hand out.

But that's not going to happen. Let's actually make a running list:

free crack pipes for users
free booze for the worst of the alcoholics
free place to shoot up
free stop smoking aids for those that can afford to smoke

Plus all the other shit already piled into the system.

CHRISTY CLARK, AND THE REST OF OUR PROVINCIAL POWERHOUSE. PLEASE STOP!

[freakshow]

“It would be members only because once word gets out it is free alcohol everyone that just wants a free drink would show up,” he said.
HAHAHA... this is awesome. He's just gonna setup a program for him and his friends to get free booze.

Who do I contact about funding? I'm going to start a free money lounge for everyone who just spends their money recklessly. Anyone want in?

[JF.]

You guys are always complaining about ur tax dollars are going to waste.. But most of u aren't doing anything to stop this from happening.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[BaBiE_Bee]

Add this to the list:

http://www.revscene.net/forums/660832-99-stupid-things-government-did-our-money.html

Edit: 100 Stupid Things the Government did with Our Money

[Drow]

The government is trying to sabotage darwin's theory of evolution
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[rsx]

Why can't they let these fuckers just rot in the street. Sometimes I wish we had more severe winter weathers to cull these people.

[mos_skeeto]

Safe injection site doesn't actually provide drugs. The alcohol lounge should only provide empty cups.

[gdoh]

^they shouldnt provide them with any thing that will further drain our taxes on useless bullshit

[fishCak3s]

:fulloffuck:

reading this makes me upset

[GLOW]

so if guys have sexual addiction and are horny and want to screw hot girls does that mean they'll open a free brothel full of hot girls to screw?
:troll:

[toyobaru]

unnecessary remark..

[optiblue]

Shoot, I think gas tax will go up another 2 cents.. Aren't safe injection sites and free crack pipes enough? Might as well buy a bunch of houses and let them live there for free... Oh wait a minute~
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[toyobaru]

Within the next year they hope to produce research in order to help land a partner in the health care sector to fund a Downtown Eastside drinker’s lounge stocked with vodka, sherry and high-alcohol beer.

and how about some Patron and some Dom Pérignon

[Gridlock]

maybe we should prohibit selling listerine and hand sanitizers to natives.

Classy.

[Gridlock]

You guys are always complaining about ur tax dollars are going to waste.. But most of u aren't doing anything to stop this from happening.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

I for one will take you up on that.

[Gridlock]

So this is what I wrote. Sent the e-mail to my MLA, a member of the NDP and the premier.

So often lately, I have complained when I hear of these hand-outs, and I forget that I do have a voice. Ms. Black, specifically, you are my voice.

So here is a member of your constituency telling you straight out that this is a ridiculous idea. I don't care about the logic behind it, or the sense it makes in people's lives. I do not support free alcohol for alcoholics. Let's add to the list of other freebies we've handed out lately:

Free stop smoking aids for smokers. Smokers, that I might add CAN AFFORD TO SMOKE
Free crack pipes for crack users.
Free alcohol for illicit alcohol abusers

And yet we're in the middle of a recession, operating in the red, but its been a real field day for the portion of the province that contributes nothing, but takes everything.

So here you go. I'm a middle class citizen that works more than most to build a life for myself. So far, my MSP gets raised, the HST boondoggle has caused confusion for my clients and frustration for everyone, and I get nailed with carbon tax credits for a truck that I must operate for work purposes.

I'm too rich for the hand-outs and too poor to rise above the whole thing.

You know what would really help it out? A nice, free drink. So if the honorable ladies that are the recipients of this e-mail would like to help me out, I like my scotch to be old enough to order its own scotch.

Thank you.

It's just that easy guys.

Look up who your MLA is in case they have done nothing for you lately, and you forgot their name.

MLA Finder | Members | Legislative Assembly of British Columbia (http://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-1.htm)

[bcrdukes]

Who do I contact about funding? I'm going to start a free money lounge for everyone who just spends their money recklessly. Anyone want in?

Hyde can be member #1 :troll:

[van_city23]

I'm too rich for the hand-outs and too poor to rise above the whole thing.


That's where a lot of us are including myself. We keep paying the price in a city that is already expensive to live in. It tough as it is but when you have more taxes to pay and don't have annual raises at work that are consistent with the rise in tax, well lets just say i'm starting to worry more about how I'm going to pay my student loans and getting a job that pays enough when I graduate.

[MWR34]

This is the only thing that comes to mind

breaking bad - russell - YouTube

[dinosaur]

maybe we should prohibit selling listerine and hand sanitizers to natives.

Seriously, dude?!

You start a thread to solicit a conversation about a ridiculous initiative started by the government and you cock it up with a pathetic racial comment like that.

Your immature and slanderous comment makes any intelligent opinion you may have on the subject meaningless.

[Geoc]

This no different than constantly giving treats to a disobedient yapping dog to keep its mouth shut than trying to train it properly.

:facepalm:

[Hehe]

You might as well just pay these people for not drinking... like giving any person diagnosed with severe drinking problem... so at least they stay away from booze.

When people have drinking problem, you stop them from drinking, not giving them more.

[MindBomber]

Why does the government double dip with all the natives on the east side? If your giving money to the reserve for rehabilitation etc why should they pay for shit like this for people that left the reserves
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

After reading the first post, I anticipated a racist post from you within the first page. As stated by Gridlock, reservations are not concentration camps. As a native person I am entitled to health care, schooling, police protection and every other government service available to any Canadian citizen, anywhere in Canada.

The program isn't even directed exclusively at native people either, it's only being lead by a native man. Good reading comprehension skills.

I'd like to hate people like you, your consistent racism and bigotry has offended me multiple times, but I'm better than that, so instead I only pity you and hope that some day you gain a less narrow minded outlook on the world.

maybe we should prohibit selling listerine and hand sanitizers to natives.

Nah, if the government prohibits my being sold hand sanitizers, I'll just use the public waterless hand sanitizer dispensers like drinking fountains.

I pity you as well.

[Gridlock]

After reading the first post, I anticipated a racist post from you within the first page. As stated by Gridlock, reservations are not concentration camps. As a native person I am entitled to health care, schooling, police protection and every other government service available to any Canadian citizen, anywhere in Canada.

The program isn't even directed exclusively at native people either, it's only being lead by a native man. Good reading comprehension skills.

I'd like to hate people like you, your consistent racism and bigotry has offended me multiple times, but I'm better than that, so instead I only pity you and hope that some day you gain a less narrow minded outlook on the world.



Nah, if the government prohibits my being sold hand sanitizers, I'll just use the public waterless hand sanitizer dispensers like drinking fountains.

I pity you as well.

Well said!

[Hondaracer]

After reading the first post, I anticipated a racist post from you within the first page. As stated by Gridlock, reservations are not concentration camps. As a native person I am entitled to health care, schooling, police protection and every other government service available to any Canadian citizen, anywhere in Canada.

The program isn't even directed exclusively at native people either, it's only being lead by a native man. Good reading comprehension skills.

I'd like to hate people like you, your consistent racism and bigotry has offended me multiple times, but I'm better than that, so instead I only pity you and hope that some day you gain a less narrow minded outlook on the world.



Nah, if the government prohibits my being sold hand sanitizers, I'll just use the public waterless hand sanitizer dispensers like drinking fountains.

I pity you as well.

So what would you say to a lazy, unmotivated drug addict from Ontario coming to BC just because they know there are a bunch of hand outs and freebies here? Should that be BC's problem to deal with them and provide BC tax payers dollars to a resident of another province?

Entitlement you talk of is what is wrong with majority of scum down on the east side, they are entitled to everything seemingly including everything except that act of sticking the needle into your arm, free liquor now, free rent in some of the worlds most expensive real estate

And what does a hard working tax paying person that never had a hand out in their life get? Nothing? Nice!

IMO alot of the natives downtown choose to be there because convenience not because they are looking for "health care" and "schooling" lol are you fuckig kidding me?

These people are DRAINS on society whether you are native or whatever you are
Because being outside laying in an alley and begging is worse than living in a free house and getting hand outs from the government on a reserve right?
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[stewie]

read this in the morning...fucking disgusts me.


when that thread last month came out about giving out free crack pipes to junkies, i do believe a few of the comments were "whats next? free alcohol for alcoholics??"....yup...that was next...

good job...

[BrRsn]

The government is trying to sabotage darwin's theory of evolution
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

+1

[Matlock]

Behold! Another stupid method of wasting of tax payer money. For what? To fund an alcohol lounge for completely useless human beings and furthermore enable their alcoholism.

I for one do not care for whether or not they go blind or ruin their kidneys from drinking mouth wash, rubbing alcohol, or hand sanitizer. I would much rather our money go into a free moonshine hand out that guarantees loss of vision, kidneys, and liver.

[Gridlock]

Argues against entitlements, yet posts....



And what does a hard working tax paying person that never had a hand out in their life get? Nothing? Nice!

Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

So the problem with entitlements, is you aren't entitled?

[Hondaracer]

I think that speaks more to the point as a hard working tax paying person, the majority of us should feel entitled opposed to the people who are drains on society who do..

Somone who works 60 hours a week SHOULD be entitled to own a home, yet the person that hasn't worked a day in the last 10 years, is a drug addict and drain on society IS entitled to having their own place provide by the government?

Well shit, makes sense to me bra
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[dinosaur]

IMO alot of the natives downtown choose to be there because convenience not because they are looking for "health care" and "schooling" lol are you fuckig kidding me?

These people are DRAINS on society whether you are native or whatever you are
Because being outside laying in an alley and begging is worse than living in a free house and getting hand outs from the government on a reserve right?


Alright...let me preface this by saying that yes, I think everyone in life has a choice as to how they are going to live it. I do NOT agree with giving alcohol to alcoholics on the DTES and in fact, the who situation on the DTES annoys the fuck outta me (read my posts on the "crack anyone?" thread).

I do, however, sympathize and understand how some First Nations people have chosen this type of life-style. You need to remember that barely a generation ago, FN people and families were torn apart. Children/teenagers were ripped from their parents, given new names, fed new food, forced to accept a different religion, forced to speak a different language, and in some cases physically and sexually abuse. Their identities were stolen. Everything you ever knew in life was now dead. Their parents and other family members were scooped up and placed on little shitty squares of land and told to start a new life as well.

Imagine being 8 years old....picked up in a truck on day and taken to a place far from your family. You have no communication with them, can no longer communicate in your language with them, you don't know where they are or if they are alive. You are then forced to live in a quasi-prison setting with hundreds of other children, all in similar situations. When you are old enough and have been assimilated enough to "european" ways-of-life, you are then pointed towards the door. Now what? There is no home to go back to...there is no family to go back to...what do you do? Unfortunately as certain number of those in that situation chose a life on the DTES. In all, over 150,000 children were places in residential schools. Try taking twice the population of New West, pulling a "men in black" memory erasing maneuver on them and then expecting each to be a normal contributing member of society after.

It is not as easy as, "just go to the rez". FN Reserves are usually on crappy pieces of land, in crappy areas far away from the eye of the people who put them there, and can not support an entire population of FN people. There is limited space and sometime not electricity or running water. Also, in regards to "free" education and not paying tax, it isn't just that easy. There are rules, guidelines, regulations, and an approval system. It is not about just waking up one day and signing up for uni for free. You don't really get "free hand-outs on reserve". Maybe you should education yourself on how the reserve system works and the differences between status and non-status.

Think all this residential school bullshit was in the past and "they" should just get over it? Mandatory attendance ended only in 1948 and the last school closed in 1996. For some of us, that is out parents generation. The Canadian gov't fucked an entire generation of people. Do some reading and research...and when you are done, pick you jaw up off the floor, and adjust your thoughts towards FN people of Canada.

In all reality, what does this all mean and how is this relevant to the gov't giving out free crack pipes, needles, and now alcohol? nothing really. But to sit there and chirp off that this is a FN/Native issue and that this is one more free thing they get, is bullshit.

Sorry that this was off-topic....keep calm and carry on.

[MindBomber]

S
So here is a member of your constituency telling you straight out that this is a ridiculous idea. I don't care about the logic behind it, or the sense it makes in people's lives. I do not support free alcohol for alcoholics. Let's add to the list of other freebies we've handed out lately:

Free stop smoking aids for smokers. Smokers, that I might add CAN AFFORD TO SMOKE
Free crack pipes for crack users.
Free alcohol for illicit alcohol abusers


I like that this portion of your letter. It's rare posts like this that are the reason I continue to actually read the post in off-topic, you're one of the few here actually capable of forming an intelligent response to such a controversial subject.

I support smoking cessation aids and safe injection sites, because I believe the program cost is displaced by the potential health care savings that result and betters the lives of individuals in British Columbia as an added bonus. I also, may very well support the illicit alcohol user program, although the complete lack of details on it in the article preludes my ability to actually take a position as of yet.

You recognize that there are potential benefits to the programs, but fundamentally disagree with them for a very valid reason. I can totally respect that as a person with an opposing view.

[Hondaracer]

Alright...let me preface this by saying that yes, I think everyone in life has a choice as to how they are going to live it. I do NOT agree with giving alcohol to alcoholics on the DTES and in fact, the who situation on the DTES annoys the fuck outta me (read my posts on the "crack anyone?" thread).

I do, however, sympathize and understand how some First Nations people have chosen this type of life-style. You need to remember that barely a generation ago, FN people and families were torn apart. Children/teenagers were ripped from their parents, given new names, fed new food, forced to accept a different religion, forced to speak a different language, and in some cases physically and sexually abuse. Their identities were stolen. Everything you ever knew in life was now dead. Their parents and other family members were scooped up and placed on little shitty squares of land and told to start a new life as well.

Imagine being 8 years old....picked up in a truck on day and taken to a place far from your family. You have no communication with them, can no longer communicate in your language with them, you don't know where they are or if they are alive. You are then forced to live in a quasi-prison setting with hundreds of other children, all in similar situations. When you are old enough and have been assimilated enough to "european" ways-of-life, you are then pointed towards the door. Now what? There is no home to go back to...there is no family to go back to...what do you do? Unfortunately as certain number of those in that situation chose a life on the DTES. In all, over 150,000 children were places in residential schools.

It is not as easy as, "just go to the rez". FN Reserves are usually on crappy pieces of land, in crappy areas far away from the eye of the people who put them there, and can not support an entire population of FN people. There is limited space and sometime not electricity or running water. Also, in regards to "free" education and not paying tax, it isn't just that easy. There are rules, guidelines, regulations, and an approval system. It is not about just waking up one day and signing up for uni for free. You don't really get "free hand-outs on reserve". Maybe you should education yourself on how the reserve system works and the differences between status and non-status.

Think all this residential school bullshit was in the past and "they" should just get over it? Mandatory attendance ended only in 1948 and the last school closed in 1996. For some of us, that is out parents generation. The Canadian gov't fucked an entire generation of people. Do some reading and research...and when you are done, pick you jaw up off the floor, and adjust your thoughts towards FN people of Canada.

In all reality, what does this all mean and how is this relevant to the gov't giving out free crack pipes, needles, and now alcohol? nothing really. But to sit there and chirp off that this is a FN/Native issue and that this is one more free thing they get, is bullshit.

Sorry that this was off-topic....keep calm and carry on.

I get all that and i get that there are infact people in dire straights down there who have had totally fucked up lives and in alot of ways what they had before is worse than the DTES

but i'm also on the side that there are a TONNE of people who use single events in their lives to blame their entire pathetic existence on

young people who are down there from like 16-18 until they are 40 because "my dad used to hit me"

even shit worse than that, sexual abuse, drug abuse, etc. I get it, but fuck to me it sounds so fucking pathetic when people use this one "trigger" as the root of all their problems

GET OVER IT

this isnt a slight to your post, it's just generalities

[dinosaur]

I get all that and i get that there are infact people in dire straights down there who have had totally fucked up lives and in alot of ways what they had before is worse than the DTES

but i'm also on the side that there are a TONNE of people who use single events in their lives to blame their entire pathetic existence on

young people who are down there from like 16-18 until they are 40 because "my dad used to hit me"

even shit worse than that, sexual abuse, drug abuse, etc. I get it, but fuck to me it sounds so fucking pathetic when people use this one "trigger" as the root of all their problems

GET OVER IT

this isnt a slight to your post, it's just generalities

Yeah dude, I get it. I struggle a lot with the whole "my dad hit me, wheres the crack pipe" scenario a lot. Socially, I am pretty damn liberal and I am also of the mind-set that you do not have to be a product of your environment shit (nurture vs. nature). But on the other hand, what happened to a large population and generation of FN people, i think, is on a completely different scale and that is when I digress from my nurture vs. nature theory. Am I segregating? yes. Do I have sympathy for some and not others? yes. Does that make me contradictory? maybe...

[Manic!]

RS meet when it opens?

[ToneCapone]

RS meet when it opens?

If we end up paying for it, hellz yeah!

[spyker]

young people who are down there from like 16-18 until they are 40 because "my dad used to hit me"

Those people are straight up losers,who blame anything and everything but themselves.

Fuck,growing up in a Asian home,I was beaten from a young age every week up till my early teens with the chicken feather duster,my parents broke a few of them on me too.

[van_city23]

our province has some real stupid shit going on in it, don't even know what to say.

[02'topaz]

This sounds completely idiotic only when considered from a very simple standpoint "we're giving alcoholics free alcohol." Yes that statement sounds ridiculous. But when you consider the goal of harm reduction programs, which is to do exactly that reduce harm and thus secondarily reduce healthcare costs, it actually has potential to save us money. It stings because as a taxpayer you feel like you're paying for some homeless person to drink alcohol. True that may be the case, but it may end up leaving more money in your pockets ultimately since those people are no longer getting sick and requiring extremely expensive hospitalizations from abusing hand sanitizer.

[JF.]

lol they should give the liqs to the natives

[Graeme S]

Okay, here's the deal people. There have now been 72 points that have been given out in this thread. I have banned two people for a total of two months.


THE NEXT ASS WHO THINKS HE'S FUNNY BY MAKING A CRACK ABOUT FIRST NATIONS WILL RECEIVE A PERMABAN. AS WILL EVERY ASS AFTER HIM.


There will be no exceptions for those "oh, but I didn't read the previous pages", so if anyone gets a ban and wants an appeal, you can come ask for one at the spring meet to my face where you can explain why you think it's funny to be racist.

[dee242]

lets stop working n say gass is to expensive so the gov pays for it

[Manic!]

This sounds completely idiotic only when considered from a very simple standpoint "we're giving alcoholics free alcohol." Yes that statement sounds ridiculous. But when you consider the goal of harm reduction programs, which is to do exactly that reduce harm and thus secondarily reduce healthcare costs, it actually has potential to save us money. It stings because as a taxpayer you feel like you're paying for some homeless person to drink alcohol. True that may be the case, but it may end up leaving more money in your pockets ultimately since those people are no longer getting sick and requiring extremely expensive hospitalizations from abusing hand sanitizer.

Legal businesses have jump thew a bunch of hoops just to get a liquor license and then follow very strict rules on how much they can serve and who they can serve.

Who's going to check for ID at this place? Who's going to stop them when they have had too much to drink, who's going to stop them when they get into a fight, and where are they going to go when they are hammered? I someone gets too drunk and walks into the middle of the street and gets hit by a car who's going to take responsibility?

not only will they have to be provided with alcohol they will have to be provided with security, and some type of holding cell when they get too unruly.

[MindBomber]

Legal businesses have jump thew a bunch of hoops just to get a liquor license and then follow very strict rules on how much they can serve and who they can serve.

Who's going to check for ID at this place? Who's going to stop them when they have had too much to drink, who's going to stop them when they get into a fight, and where are they going to go when they are hammered? I someone gets too drunk and walks into the middle of the street and gets hit by a car who's going to take responsibility?

not only will they have to be provided with alcohol they will have to be provided with security, and some type of holding cell when they get too unruly.

A holding cell would be illegal, I suspect, but I digress.

The article is completely lacking in details, which is why I choose not to take a position. The only information provided in the article is a basic background of the man leading it, some scant details on what it will provide and to whom, along with the cost and length of term it will run. It's difficult to make any legitimate conclusions based on that.

It is a research program and will require a membership, so my hope is that solid measurable data will be collected to determine if this is having a positive impact on the community and lessening the problem at hand before moving beyond the research phase. It seems similar to methadone clinics in that is a maintenance and harm reduction program, which have been well researched and proven successful in the past.

[FerrariEnzo]

man... should throw all these bums all onto a deserted island... if they take their liveds for granted and just throw it away, they dont deserve one at all...


I dont mind people who have lows in their life and gets welfare.. but to say on it forever and do shit with your life, thats just retarded...

[wstce92]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Harm reduction programs is fucking bullshit.
No fucking shit it saves us money in form of healthcare. A fucking monkey could tell you that. The point is that we should not be encouraging activities that are a)illegal and/or b)disruptive to society. The point is, TAX PAYER money, should be spent on people who contribute or are unable (children, disabled people, the elderly) to contribute to society; not those that just choose not to. If you want to get clean and get a job, we should give you money for that; in form of rehab, temporary address/clothes/help for job application, etc. But giving free crack pipes, places to shoot up, places to get drunk; is fucking retarded. Why are we helping people who clearly don't give a shit.
Furthermore, I don't care if I get failed into oblivion, but just because you're alive, does not mean you have the RIGHT to be. Your life is worth what you put in. And if you're living on the street, wasting your life away on drugs and alcohol; then your life is worth nothing. Millions of people in third world countries are derelict through no fault of their own. And you have these assholes who choose to be a worthless leech on society. If they do not take advantage of how they've won the lottery of life, being born in a 1st world country, then we should let them die, and direct all money currently going to them, to matters like hot lunch programs for kids who don't get to eat, disabled people, the elderly, 3rd world country support, etc.

[toyobaru]

Alright...let me preface this by saying that yes, I think everyone in life has a choice as to how they are going to live it. I do NOT agree with giving alcohol to alcoholics on the DTES and in fact, the who situation on the DTES annoys the fuck outta me (read my posts on the "crack anyone?" thread).

I do, however, sympathize and understand how some First Nations people have chosen this type of life-style. You need to remember that barely a generation ago, FN people and families were torn apart. Children/teenagers were ripped from their parents, given new names, fed new food, forced to accept a different religion, forced to speak a different language, and in some cases physically and sexually abuse. Their identities were stolen. Everything you ever knew in life was now dead. Their parents and other family members were scooped up and placed on little shitty squares of land and told to start a new life as well.

Imagine being 8 years old....picked up in a truck on day and taken to a place far from your family. You have no communication with them, can no longer communicate in your language with them, you don't know where they are or if they are alive. You are then forced to live in a quasi-prison setting with hundreds of other children, all in similar situations. When you are old enough and have been assimilated enough to "european" ways-of-life, you are then pointed towards the door. Now what? There is no home to go back to...there is no family to go back to...what do you do? Unfortunately as certain number of those in that situation chose a life on the DTES. In all, over 150,000 children were places in residential schools. Try taking twice the population of New West, pulling a "men in black" memory erasing maneuver on them and then expecting each to be a normal contributing member of society after.

It is not as easy as, "just go to the rez". FN Reserves are usually on crappy pieces of land, in crappy areas far away from the eye of the people who put them there, and can not support an entire population of FN people. There is limited space and sometime not electricity or running water. Also, in regards to "free" education and not paying tax, it isn't just that easy. There are rules, guidelines, regulations, and an approval system. It is not about just waking up one day and signing up for uni for free. You don't really get "free hand-outs on reserve". Maybe you should education yourself on how the reserve system works and the differences between status and non-status.

Think all this residential school bullshit was in the past and "they" should just get over it? Mandatory attendance ended only in 1948 and the last school closed in 1996. For some of us, that is out parents generation. The Canadian gov't fucked an entire generation of people. Do some reading and research...and when you are done, pick you jaw up off the floor, and adjust your thoughts towards FN people of Canada.

In all reality, what does this all mean and how is this relevant to the gov't giving out free crack pipes, needles, and now alcohol? nothing really. But to sit there and chirp off that this is a FN/Native issue and that this is one more free thing they get, is bullshit.

Sorry that this was off-topic....keep calm and carry on.

Despite my previous unecessary remarks. I do SEE the point you are making. Yes the first nations people have had a rough history with surviving. I dont think it is 100% the governments fault or the assimilation into "european lifestles" that is fully to blame. A lot of has to do with their attitudes towards change. A lot of natives are too used to their traditional ways of doing things.

Sometimes I think maybe it was best their kids are forced to be taken away and learn this "new lifestyle". Think of it this way I am not saying that ALL natives are alcoholics BUT imagine how much it would suck be staying with an alcoholic father who physically beat and sexually raped you. I honestly think it is for the best interest of the child and giving them a chance at a future that will prevent them from going into the wrong direction.

[dinosaur]

Despite my previous unecessary remarks. I do SEE the point you are making. Yes the first nations people have had a rough history with surviving. I dont think it is 100% the governments fault or the assimilation into "european lifestles" that is fully to blame. A lot of has to do with their attitudes towards change. A lot of natives are too used to their traditional ways of doing things.

Sometimes I think maybe it was best their kids are forced to be taken away and learn this "new lifestyle". Think of it this way I am not saying that ALL natives are alcoholics BUT imagine how much it would suck be staying with an alcoholic father who physically beat and sexually raped you. I honestly think it is for the best interest of the child and giving them a chance at a future that will prevent them from going into the wrong direction.

Ummm....I am really not sure how to respond to this and I am a little at a loss for words, but I will try.

Ok...FN children were not taken away from their families because of abuse. They were taken away from their families and assimilated to a "european" way-of-life because the powers that be, thought their life-style was wrong and theirs was right. Traditional First Nation lifestyle WRONG, White-European Lifestyle RIGHT. Think about that...

A lot of natives are too used to their traditional ways of doing things.

Too use to their traditional ways of doing things? Is there such a thing?

Read this again, because I am not sure you realized what you said, because instead of using the term "native", you mean "people". Nobody likes change. Everyone likes to maintain their traditional ways....hell, look at the Lower Mainland. People can move to this region and still maintain their traditional life-style. You can move here, keep your language, religion, diet, culture, have your house modified, use traditional medicine, etc...When you move to this country, regardless of where you came from, you are NOT required to assimilate to a "Canadian" way of life. I think is one of the best things about living here! I have been to some of the whitest places in NA and it tripped the fuck outta me! It was like some weird "children of the corn" horror movie nightmare.

Now picture this (please excuse my blatant stereo-typing as I am only doing so to prove a point)...I pick up my shit...move to, let's say, Japan. I walk up to someone's house and kick the door in. Meet the family and you know what? no more chop sticks...here is a fork! Also, we are now sitting on chairs! Say good-bye to Buddhism, you are all now Christians! Here is a bible-learn it, live it! You like sushi!? Too bad...have a bowl of poutine and ham! Also, this whole Japanese language is confusing as FUCK, so it is English from now on...oh, and if I hear you speaking Japanese, I get to punch you. In regards to sports...here is a hockey stick, no more sumo for you! No more traditional medicine, from this day forward you must forget everything and whoever you were before. Like J-pop? Too bad, here is a Nickleback CD. YOU ARE A NEW PERSON! Everything you did before was WRONG and I am RIGHT, so you need to do this or I will beat you.

How well would that go over? Sounds a little ridiculous, ya think? Now when people watching this protest...you say that it is okay, because they just don't like change-ya know, typical Japanese people. I am saving them from a life a strict parents and being forced to get the best grade in the class. I am saving them from a live of having to be doctors and mathematicians because my way-of-life is RIGHT.

Now, this scenario is total bull-shit and would hopefully never happened now, but it did happen not that long ago.

We go go around and around talking about this subject for days. I realize everyone has different thoughts and opinions but all I ask is that you put yourself in that position. Take you own way-of-life and think about it being raped from you. How would you respond? I am not saying it is an excuse to abuse drugs and alcohol or to live a life of crime, all I am saying is that have some empathy towards FNs people and that struggles some have had as a result of the treatment the Gov't.

I feel like I am talking in circles....I am sorry of this doesn't make any sense.

[dinosaur]

In regards to the actual point of this thread:

I don't agree with giving out alcohol to addicts. If we are trying to throw money at the situation, I would like to see it go towards rehab facilities, prevention, and recovery and mental health programs.

This is not a FN (Native) issue, this is not a "white" issue, or any other ethnic or racial group issue. This is an addict and mentally ill issue.

Without a doubt, the partial closure of RiverView and the cuts to mental health has added to the issues on the DTES. There should be more focus on that.

[Gridlock]

Despite my previous unecessary remarks. I do SEE the point you are making. Yes the first nations people have had a rough history with surviving. I dont think it is 100% the governments fault or the assimilation into "european lifestles" that is fully to blame. A lot of has to do with their attitudes towards change. A lot of natives are too used to their traditional ways of doing things.

Sometimes I think maybe it was best their kids are forced to be taken away and learn this "new lifestyle". Think of it this way I am not saying that ALL natives are alcoholics BUT imagine how much it would suck be staying with an alcoholic father who physically beat and sexually raped you. I honestly think it is for the best interest of the child and giving them a chance at a future that will prevent them from going into the wrong direction.

Oh yes man. Your explanation of your previous unnecessary with your new unnecessary remarks has done you a world of good.

I totally agree with you. It's not 100% the governments fault-if the natives had just given up and assimilated faster, then there wouldn't be any issue now!

And shit! Once again I'm totally in agreement-not ALL your posts are stupid but imagine what it would be like to have to listen to this shit in person. Maybe it would be better to knock on your door and take your kids away to save them from having to listen to it.

No one deserves to have their kids taken from them for no reason-and raising your kids the best you can in the traditions in which you were raised in is not a reason! Period.

Human history is littered with forced relocations in the name of the greater good. It's never been acceptable, and its never worked! Not for the people anyway. Forcing the children into the residential schools was a forced relocation for the purpose of breaking the will of the native people. And like so many others, its worked for the power, and not for the people relocated.

In this very thread, people-wait, you, have treated natives as second class citizens. For that, you should be sorry.

None of this means that I think we should be holding their hands and taking them to a free bar to pickle themselves, but it means that we have A LOT of work to do in overcoming past mistakes.

And that work has a long way to go if there are people that will openly say, or type that they don't even think the problem occurred in the first place, and they should just get over it. I think they do need to move on from it, and there is a huge difference. I do commend this guy for trying to come up with something, I just think its in the wrong direction.

[Ronin]

I hate bullshit like this that just enables people's addiction, calling it a disease that we should all be wearing ribbons or running miles for.

This sort of thing just makes me wonder why I'm not an alcoholic or a drug addict because apparently you can do dick all, leech off the government and they'll still trip all over themselves trying to give you free alcohol/drugs because "oh, we have to help the poor, addicted masses in the DTES.". Why punish the functioning, useful part of society and reward the people that have no desire to benefit anything but their drinking habit?

If this shit goes through, we should petition for our own drinking club...free RS club booze for everyone!

[MindBomber]

Despite my previous unecessary remarks. I do SEE the point you are making. Yes the first nations people have had a rough history with surviving. I dont think it is 100% the governments fault or the assimilation into "european lifestles" that is fully to blame. A lot of has to do with their attitudes towards change. A lot of natives are too used to their traditional ways of doing things.

Sometimes I think maybe it was best their kids are forced to be taken away and learn this "new lifestyle". Think of it this way I am not saying that ALL natives are alcoholics BUT imagine how much it would suck be staying with an alcoholic father who physically beat and sexually raped you. I honestly think it is for the best interest of the child and giving them a chance at a future that will prevent them from going into the wrong direction.

Residential schools had nothing to do with removing Native children from unhealthy situations, they were designed to purge the community of traditional culture andf convert the children to christianity. Had it no been for dedication Native people have as a community to preserving that culture, they may have been successful and the work by artists like Bill Reid would never have existed.

Furthermore, you're insinuating that prior to 1946 all Native parents were alcoholics who molested their children and residential schools were refuges. That's a ridiculous statement, even if it were true however, why would a native child who is subject to abuse need to be handled differently than a European one. In reality, the stories of sexual and physical abuse in residential schools are so common one would think it was almost standard policy to abuse the children.

I hope you take the time to educate yourself on this tragic portion of Canadian and Native history.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Gridlock]

So this is what I wrote. Sent the e-mail to my MLA, a member of the NDP and the premier.

So often lately, I have complained when I hear of these hand-outs, and I forget that I do have a voice. Ms. Black, specifically, you are my voice.

So here is a member of your constituency telling you straight out that this is a ridiculous idea. I don't care about the logic behind it, or the sense it makes in people's lives. I do not support free alcohol for alcoholics. Let's add to the list of other freebies we've handed out lately:

Free stop smoking aids for smokers. Smokers, that I might add CAN AFFORD TO SMOKE
Free crack pipes for crack users.
Free alcohol for illicit alcohol abusers

And yet we're in the middle of a recession, operating in the red, but its been a real field day for the portion of the province that contributes nothing, but takes everything.

So here you go. I'm a middle class citizen that works more than most to build a life for myself. So far, my MSP gets raised, the HST boondoggle has caused confusion for my clients and frustration for everyone, and I get nailed with carbon tax credits for a truck that I must operate for work purposes.

I'm too rich for the hand-outs and too poor to rise above the whole thing.

You know what would really help it out? A nice, free drink. So if the honorable ladies that are the recipients of this e-mail would like to help me out, I like my scotch to be old enough to order its own scotch.

Thank you.

It's just that easy guys.

Look up who your MLA is in case they have done nothing for you lately, and you forgot their name.

MLA Finder | Members | Legislative Assembly of British Columbia (http://www.leg.bc.ca/mla/3-1-1.htm)

Just wanted to post a follow up that I did get a response from my MLA. Nada from the premier, but she's a busy lady for the likes of little ole me.

"Thanks for your message.
I believe this is a proposal which is supported by a group who are active in Vancouver’s downtown eastside. There is currently an eight-patient pilot program underway there and in other cities so professionals can judge if this type of “harm reduction” program would assist hard-core alcoholics (including those drinking Listerine, hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol etc.) to reduce or abstain from drinking. I will be interested to see the results of the pilot program.
As you may know, my colleagues and I in the Official Opposition Caucus speak out frequently against the repeated increases in many fees and charges which are negatively affecting all British Columbians. MSP premium increases, Hydro rate increases, BC Ferries fare increases and, of course, the HST are just some of the items causing hardship for many.
Thanks for sending me your comments.
Dawn Black"

So it sounds like she kind of supports it.

[SpuGen]

All I got from that message was:
We're testing it out, but don't worry, Im one of the good guys.

Pc responses suck.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Gridlock]

got to be honest, I really wasn't expecting my NDP MLA to send back a response that said, "I'm sick of this shit too"

I agree with a lot of the list of money items at the end of her e-mail, but when I read it I was just thinking, "you guys are going to come up with way worse stuff to spend money on"

[Graeme S]

Managed-alcohol program helps battle addiction | Vancouver, Canada | Straight.com (http://www.straight.com/article-580906/vancouver/managing-alcohol-addiction)

This article was a much less senstationalized version.

TLDR:
Only 8 people.
Those 8 people were already addicted to "non-consumable alcohols" (listerine, hand sanitizer, etc etc) and this is a method of reducing the harmful effects of that.
It's a residential program (have to live there to get it). It costs about $350/mo/person, and it keeps all EIGHT of them out of hospital (where they would typically be).


I admit, I wasn't really a proponent of the program, though neither was I necessarily opposed initially. With this, I think I kind of get the point.

[MindBomber]

That's a much better article, all biases aside, it focuses on the program itself rather than irrelevant race and conveys excellent information.

Joe was quick to state the results so far are “preliminary”. However, he said that, overall, drinking in the participant group has gone down significantly, binge drinking has been curtailed, and other side benefits have sprung up, such as renewed or improved contact with family. And if there are less visits to the emergency ward following seizures and falling down, there is less of a strain on the public purse, Joe added.

[46_valentinor]

i know quite a lot of these welfare guys and most of them are not as poor as the general population think they are. they get between 600-800 a month for their welfare check, on the side they do A LOT of cash jobs such as unloading oversea containers for warehouses, which usually yields them between 60-80 dollars per containers and they get free breakfast, lunch and dinner at their local churches. to be honest, they are making as much as my dad and my dad can support himself, a home and his whole family....i have no sympathy for them at all...

[Graeme S]

i know quite a lot of these welfare guys and most of them are not as poor as the general population think they are. they get between 600-800 a month for their welfare check, on the side they do A LOT of cash jobs such as unloading oversea containers for warehouses, which usually yields them between 60-80 dollars per containers and they get free breakfast, lunch and dinner at their local churches. to be honest, they are making as much as my dad and my dad can support himself, a home and his whole family....i have no sympathy for them at all...
For every guy working the system, there is a guy shafted by the system.

Solution? You know of an abuse, report it. It might take awhile, but the more you can do to weed out the assholes from the system, the more people who can actually use the protections we're all supposed to be able to have.

[spyker]

i know quite a lot of these welfare guys and most of them are not as poor as the general population think they are. they get between 600-800 a month for their welfare check, on the side they do A LOT of cash jobs such as unloading oversea containers for warehouses, which usually yields them between 60-80 dollars per containers and they get free breakfast, lunch and dinner at their local churches. to be honest, they are making as much as my dad and my dad can support himself, a home and his whole family....i have no sympathy for them at all...

Seriously.....like Graeme S said,report that shit,report every single one of them for ripping off the system we taxpayers pay for.

Social services will do a full blown investigation,once they gather enough eveidence,they will make these people pay back every red cent that was given to them,plus be charged for fraud.