[taylor192]

The side street roundabouts are icy right now with no salt/sand, and my GF ended up sliding and smacking a curb. Looks like she popped the control arm back 1" out of its bushings and bent the tie rod. Hopefully nothing else yet the engine is running rough so she might have cracked a motor mount.

ICBC initially wants to treat it as a collision claim, which I think is not right. It should be comprehensive, especially since this city doesn't salt/sand any of the side roads.

She has ~13 years driving clean, so even if it's a collision she drops to 8 on the CRS and keeps her max discount, so she's going through ICBC and hoping she gets another 13 years without an accident - yet I'd rather she keep her 13 on the CRS if its possible to claim this as comprehensive.

Has anyone had any luck getting ICBC to treat this as a comprehensive claim due to road conditions?

[TRDood]

- theft, vandalism and malicious mischief
- “missiles” and falling or flying objects such as a rock or gravel hitting your windshield
- hitting a domestic or wild animal
- weather—lightning, windstorm, hail, rising water and fire
- earthquake
- civil commotion or riots
- the stranding, sinking, burning, derailment, upset or collision of a conveyance transporting your vehicle on land or water

ICBC | Comprehensive coverage (http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/optional/optional-vehicle/comprehensive#1)

I don't think your situation applies to any of the above. The curb is not moving, so ICBC will rule that your gf has collided with a stationary object.

[kkttsang]

what city was she in, i bet its a long shot but talk to the city see if they will do anything.

[taylor192]

- theft, vandalism and malicious mischief
- “missiles” and falling or flying objects such as a rock or gravel hitting your windshield
- hitting a domestic or wild animal
- weather—lightning, windstorm, hail, rising water and fire
- earthquake
- civil commotion or riots
- the stranding, sinking, burning, derailment, upset or collision of a conveyance transporting your vehicle on land or water

ICBC | Comprehensive coverage (http://www.icbc.com/autoplan/optional/optional-vehicle/comprehensive#1)

I don't think your situation applies to any of the above. The curb is not moving, so ICBC will rule that your gf has collided with a stationary object.
I haven't looked up her insurance, yet I think she might have private insurance for comprehensive and collision. Hopefully the private insurers have different rules.

In Ontario black ice is considered a comprehensive claim as long as you had good tires and were driving reasonably. I was hoping ICBC had a similar clause.

[gars]

In Ontario black ice is considered a comprehensive claim as long as you had good tires and were driving reasonably. I was hoping ICBC had a similar clause.

Black Ice would probably be different from snow and ice that's visible. If you can see the snow and ice - the insurance company might just rule that you were driving too fast for the conditions.
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[bloodmack]

If she's keeping her max discount still so what? She can drive for 13 years with a clean record then it shouldn't be a problem for the next 13..

[taylor192]

If she's keeping her max discount still so what? She can drive for 13 years with a clean record then it shouldn't be a problem for the next 13..

Cause shit happens, and if something else happens in the near term she drops 6 on the CRS. It'd be nice to save that for something terribly bad, as this is hopefully ~$500 to fix.

[silva95teg]

Does she have winter tires ? If it is only $500 I would pay it, save those CRS steps for something more serious( not that you plan for that )

[taylor192]

Does she have winter tires ? If it is only $500 I would pay it, save those CRS steps for something more serious( not that you plan for that )

I agree, save it for when it counts.

I think a shop could fix it in a day, yet to go via ICBC will take several days as the tow it out to Coq then evaluate it. ICBC pays for rental coverage, yet if she choses to pay off the claim I assume she'd have to pay this back too... which means > $500.

[silva95teg]

I know someone that was recently in an accident, they did not have to go to icbc at all, they just had it brought directly to an icbc accredited shop. So the rules on that may have changed recently. Accidents always suck, just good when no one is injured.

[nabs]

even though my accident was caused due to icy weather conditions, and it was no where in my power to know or control the situation, ICBC still claimed it 100% my fault because i was the only vehicle involved in the collision

[Marco911]

even though my accident was caused due to icy weather conditions, and it was no where in my power to know or control the situation, ICBC still claimed it 100% my fault because i was the only vehicle involved in the collision

Rightfully so. You were the driver of the vehicle and lost control. Icy weather conditions is not an excuse. There is no way collisions like this including the scenario described by the OP should be treated as comprehensive.

[xpl0sive]

if you are driving a vehicle and hit a curb, pole, pothole, go though a deep puddle and flood ur engine, it's considered collision. the only time you can claim comprehensive while driving is when you hit an animal.

[Indy]

if you are driving a vehicle and hit a curb, pole, pothole, go though a deep puddle and flood ur engine, it's considered collision. the only time you can claim comprehensive while driving is when you hit an animal.


That's not True...you could be driving and a Riot could suddenly break out :D

[RRxtar]

She has ~13 years driving clean, so even if it's a collision she drops to 8 on the CRS and keeps her max discount, so she's going through ICBC and hoping she gets another 13 years without an accident - Cause shit happens, and if something else happens in the near term she drops 6 on the CRS.
if shes at a level 13 discount she is at a 43%(max) discount and will move 4 spots to level 9 which is still a 43%(max) discount and is still in the same discount 'group'. if she were to get in another accident at level 9, she would move 4 spots again. you only move 6 spots at once if you are a level 3 or worse.

I know someone that was recently in an accident, they did not have to go to icbc at all, they just had it brought directly to an icbc accredited shop. So the rules on that may have changed recently.
ICBC is moving away from doing adjustments at ICBC centers to doing adjustments at accredited valet shops.

even though my accident was caused due to icy weather conditions, and it was no where in my power to know or control the situation, ICBC still claimed it 100% my fault because i was the only vehicle involved in the collision
so you crashed your car due to your own admitted lack of ability to control your vehicle in the situation. and you feel that ICBC was wrong in saying it was your fault? these collision/comprehensive situations are black and white, ICBC doesnt make up the rules as they go to screw you.

[gars]

the only time you can claim comprehensive while driving is when you hit an animal.

Even then, you need to physically hit the animal. If you swerve and end up in the ditch, ICBC will just assume you screwed up.

[geeknerd]

IMO single car collision is 99% at fault.
More so if winter tires/4wd wasnt equipped.
My mom knows her limits of driving and doesnt drive in snow.
Some people simply lack the equipment/experience/skill to drive in the winter and should not be driving during snowed days.

[TRDood]

Even then, you need to physically hit the animal. If you swerve and end up in the ditch, ICBC will just assume you screwed up.

That's why you make sure the deer/moose/bird goes through your windshield to your backseat for evidence.

:ilied:

[evil_jigglypuff]

If you're girlfriend has private insurance then she doesn't claim the accident with ICBC. The private insurance takes care of it all. That is the reason why she is keeping her CRS discount with ICBC.

With private insurers, if she has a claim whether it be collision or comprehensive(except for windshield claims), Her rates with them will go up(with my experience atleast). When that is the case then you can just got back all in with ICBC as her discount has not affected her.

[taylor192]

Some people simply lack the equipment/experience/skill to drive in the winter and should not be driving during snowed days.
Not the case here, some times shit happens.

She's from Ontario and used to far worse snow, been living here over a decade and used to no salt/sand. Just unfortunate that she hit a bit of ice that she didn't expect, at least now she knows to steer into the curb so you hop the curb, rather than away and risk slamming the car to an abrupt stop.

[TRDood]

Not the case here, some times shit happens.

She's from Ontario and used to far worse snow, been living here over a decade and used to no salt/sand. Just unfortunate that she hit a bit of ice that she didn't expect, at least now she knows to steer into the curb so you hop the curb, rather than away and risk slamming the car to an abrupt stop.

Doesn't this show lack of experience/skills?

[GabAlmighty]

Life's a bitch, play the cards you're dealt. ICBC won't cover it, no use arguing it.

[geeknerd]

Doesn't this show lack of experience/skills?

i dont think so. i wouldnt have thought of driving on top of it, instead of trying to get away from it :S im sure a lot of people wouldve tried to get away since its their natural reaction to avoid the curb.

unless it was an suv and there was nothing else in the way :D

[jeffh]

after post #15 this thread should have been closed, that answers all your questions, and even sheds light on what you need to do now

[taylor192]

Doesn't this show lack of experience/skills?
Start a poll, I'm willing to bet instinct will have most try to steer out and forget to bail at the last minute and hop the curb. Its not like they teach how to crash in driving school - except in Richmond.

[GabAlmighty]

Start a poll, I'm willing to bet instinct will have most try to steer out and forget to bail at the last minute and hop the curb. Its not like they teach how to crash in driving school - except in Richmond.

I guess I'm not "most".

[Marco911]

Start a poll, I'm willing to bet instinct will have most try to steer out and forget to bail at the last minute and hop the curb. Its not like they teach how to crash in driving school - except in Richmond.

So you fail my post for suggesting your gf's lack of driving skill is the sole cause of the accident and now suggest that ICBC should somehow not consider it a collision because most people would react the same way?

What the hell happened to personal accountability?

[jeffh]

^ this
op is a fucking retard

if the conditions are so dangerous that you cannot avoid a collision, it is then your responsibility to not be on the roads

[taylor192]

^ this
op is a fucking retard

if the conditions are so dangerous that you cannot avoid a collision, it is then your responsibility to not be on the roads

Get off your high horse. People make mistakes, hopefully when you do you'll post so I can mock you.

[GabAlmighty]

Get off your high horse. People make mistakes, hopefully when you do you'll post so I can mock you.

I hear manslaughter is a "mistake" too.

[Marco911]

Get off your high horse. People make mistakes, hopefully when you do you'll post so I can mock you.

Nobody is faulting your gf for making a mistake. It's your lack of personal responsibility that we find appalling by trying to pass this off as a comprehensive claim so your rates won't increase.

[taylor192]

Nobody is faulting your gf for making a mistake. It's your lack of personal responsibility that we find appalling by trying to pass this off as a comprehensive claim so your rates won't increase.
I find it appalling that insurance companies don't take weather related accidents as comprehensive, and that so many people who drive cars agree with that.

I cannot predict ice around a corner better than I can predict an animal will jump out infront of my car, especially at night. To say you just shouldn't drive in these conditions is ridiculous, we live in Canada. Even snow tires won't help you much on ice.

[jeffh]

heres how you predict

OBSERVATION
if its freezing cold everywhere, and there was moisture previously on the road, you can bet there will be ice, that is nature

you should be approaching every corner in this situation suspecting that there will be ice, and driving to that condition, not waiting for ice to magically appear underneath you, and then getting into a slide

also, you CAN predict and anticipate wildlife on the highway, there are road signs to alert you to high traffic areas, and there are also certain times of day when critters like deer are more likely to be on the highway

ive had 2 collisions in my 10 year driving career, both my fault, both of which i paid for out of pocket to maintain my premiums and accident free status with ICBC

if it goes through your comprehensive, that means every other driver in bc has to subsidize what is really, and at fault collision. not fair imo

[RRxtar]

taylor man normally im on your side in arguments in threads but you're wrong on this one

[taylor192]

taylor man normally im on your side in arguments in threads but you're wrong on this one
Insurance here doesn't cover pot hole/road conditions damage either - yet thankfully the state of Utah does when I bent and cracked my rear wheels in the canyons. Utah paid 100% of the costs to fix my wheels and buy new tires - they have an insurance fund just for this. Glad I asked at the time.

That's why I asked here, just the answer for BC sucks. I cannot find anyone online that has successfully fought ICBC on it, so at least she's still going to have her full discount afterwards.

[TRDood]

Insurance here doesn't cover pot hole/road conditions damage either - yet thankfully the state of Utah does when I bent and cracked my rear wheels in the canyons. Utah paid 100% of the costs to fix my wheels and buy new tires - they have an insurance fund just for this. Glad I asked at the time.

That's why I asked here, just the answer for BC sucks. I cannot find anyone online that has successfully fought ICBC on it, so at least she's still going to have her full discount afterwards.

Can't compare Utah vs. BC for auto insurance. They offer different coverages under different laws. Same goes for Ontario vs BC.

Put it this way, if ICBC is to allocate any black ice related claims to comprehensive and cannot recover through the insured, other policyholders will share the burden. Basically you are proposing that weather related collisions should be under comprehensive because the weather is not predictable. Is that reasonable?
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[gars]

I thought Ontario is all private insurance? Wouldn't that mean that different companies offer different coverages? Are all collisions caused by Ice in Ontario covered under comprehensive? I find it hard to believe that if you have snow tires and were driving at a reasonable speed, if you hit ice, your insurance company would swallow the cost.

sounds like a very easy way for people to cheat the system without raising their premiums.

[GabAlmighty]

Why you failin me bro? Is it cuz i'm right?

[taylor192]

Can't compare Utah vs. BC for auto insurance. They offer different coverages under different laws. Same goes for Ontario vs BC.
Absolutely, thus why I asked. I asked in Utah and was pleasantly surprised, I asked here and am disappointed. No harm, no foul for asking - better than not knowing.

Basically you are proposing that weather related collisions should be under comprehensive because the weather is not predictable. Is that reasonable?
No basically about it. I've been very clear a few times that I think it should be covered if you've got good tires and were not driving unreasonably.

She made it around several side streets and roundabouts before this one bit her, so it was reasonable for her to expect to navigate this one successfully - unfortunately she didn't - I think that's reasonable, yet concede it would be difficult to judge, and prone to abuse. Thus why I asked if anyone has successfully done it, cause maybe there was a way that is reasonable.

[taylor192]

I thought Ontario is all private insurance? Wouldn't that mean that different companies offer different coverages? Are all collisions caused by Ice in Ontario covered under comprehensive? I find it hard to believe that if you have snow tires and were driving at a reasonable speed, if you hit ice, your insurance company would swallow the cost.

sounds like a very easy way for people to cheat the system without raising their premiums.
Ontario also calls it a single vehicle accident, yet there are ways to fight the private companies to get it covered without affecting your rates - cause they all have different policies, some more lenient than others.

[taylor192]

also, you CAN predict and anticipate wildlife on the highway, there are road signs to alert you to high traffic areas, and there are also certain times of day when critters like deer are more likely to be on the highway
Yet hitting an animal is covered under comprehensive regardless of these signs. That helps my point, not yours.

if it goes through your comprehensive, that means every other driver in bc has to subsidize what is really, and at fault collision. not fair imo
Considering what good drivers pay in this province, we're subsidizing something. My insurance is 50% higher for the same coverage compared to Ontario, and Ontario insurance is at the high end cost of private insurance.

I have 8 years clean, and would drop to a 2 CRS if I had an accident today, vs my insurance in Ontario would ignore my first accident at this point.

Anyways that's a whole other discussion, yet you can see why I think its important to keep your CRS high.

[littledog]

I'm just curious...you said your gf has private insurance for comprehensive and collision, is ICBC still involved in this case (i.e. CRS still affected) since it has nothing to do with ICBC?

[jeffh]

you sir, have missed the point
if you tell an adjuster at ICBC you hit an animal on the road
then it is again at at fault collision

if the animal hit your car however, it is the same as a rock hitting your windshield, it is an outside energy causing damage to your car

not the inertia of your car, causing damage to itself

seems like simple semantics, but it makes a huge difference in the legal shitstorm to follow

[MindBomber]

No basically about it. I've been very clear a few times that I think it should be covered if you've got good tires and were not driving unreasonably.

She made it around several side streets and roundabouts before this one bit her, so it was reasonable for her to expect to navigate this one successfully - unfortunately she didn't - I think that's reasonable, yet concede it would be difficult to judge, and prone to abuse. Thus why I asked if anyone has successfully done it, cause maybe there was a way that is reasonable.

Under certain conditions, ICBC will determine a single vehicle accident as no fault resulting from weather conditions, but the conditions required are quite stringent. Basically, it needs to be proven that the road could not be navigated safely by a properly equipped vehicle being driven appropriately for conditions. I have had two friends given that determination, both when navigating the highway between Abbotsford and Chilliwack. If there are numerous accidents on the same patch of highway, at the same time, that's how it's proven that the road could not be safely navigated.

Unfortunately, since I doubt five people were in accidents at the exact same spot as your gf that day, she probably wouldn't qualify. It was also likely not an inherently dangerous roadway, like the Abby-Wack highway, which also would hurt the case. You could try and appeal though, I would if it was a more expensive accident.

Also, touching on another point from the thread, I though ICBC had accident forgiveness for seven years of safe driving? Am I totally wrong.