[epicbeardman]

My poor Civic Ep3 can barely handle the snow and I am betting I can get around 5-6k for her. Was thinking about how awesome it would be to have an AWD car, that and someone wise once said, "life's too short for FWD" (so true). I have some money in the bank and would like to put it towards an AWD. My budget is around 7-8k and I am leaning towards the DSMs, i.e Eclipse (GST?) and the Talon TSI's from the 92+ years. How reliable are these cars? Do these Talons share the exact same engines as the Mitsu counterparts? Can I even find one in my budget? Any other suggestions are welcome

[J89]

I would lean towards another AWD car. Perhaps a older gen a4 quattro or older wrx impreza.
I may be biased but most of my friends or acquaintances Eclispes and Talons.. are either in a shop or storage because they don't run well lol.

[Dragon-88]

Get snow tires. But yeah I have a buddy with a eclipes and everytime I see him, theres always a new problem.

[eclipse.soul]

For the Eclipse's the AWD version is the GSX (turbo AWD), NOT the GST (turbo FWD). Are they reliable? Generally not. Yes Eclipse's and Talon's share the same parts as they are basically the same car. You should be able to find either an Eclipse GSX or Talon TSI AWD within your budget.

EDIT: I've owned a 2G Eclipse GSX before, I was constantly having issues with it.

[J89]

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2007/12/27/14/25/2002_subaru_legacy_gt_limited-pic-8293.jpeg
Or this beast

fuckk :megusta:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/2803738646.html

Imma scrap my g35 soon and get a AWD.

[ilvtofu]

Lol reliability and DSM in the same sentence?

I think the best option is just to get a set of winters with wheels for your EP3, if your car isn't slammed the weather we get here won't be too bad with winters. Don't forget that AWD doesn't mean you will stop any better if you don't have winters.

[kwy]

I've got a DSM. 95 Talon TSi AWD, which is the same as the Eclipse GSX. For a car with 200k on it, it's been pretty good. I've had to change the rad. That's really about it. Very practical, AWD, fold down rear seats, not too bad on gas. Since I lowered mine, it's lost a lot of its practicality however. Was considering an Audi A6, but they have way too many problems, as well as the other models.

Seriously, I did some research on the turbo quattro A4s and A6s, and they seem to be nothing but trouble..

[Energy]

Are the suzuki sx4's in the price range already?

[epicbeardman]

http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2007/12/27/14/25/2002_subaru_legacy_gt_limited-pic-8293.jpeg
Or this beast

fuckk :megusta:

Auto :(

2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS Sedan (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/2803738646.html)

Imma scrap my g35 soon and get a AWD.
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[sonick]

nvm

[PJ]

Lol reliability and DSM in the same sentence?

I think the best option is just to get a set of winters with wheels for your EP3, if your car isn't slammed the weather we get here won't be too bad with winters. Don't forget that AWD doesn't mean you will stop any better if you don't have winters.

^This.

For some reason a lot of people believe that if you have AWD, you're good to go for anything, anywhere. This is not true. Obviously AWD handles the best in the snow, but that doesn't mean you don't need snow tires. Hell, my friend has a damn Evo and still needs snows.

Unless you really wanna change cars, just spend your money on some snow tires and drive safe. I've seen Tercels and Echos pull through just fine with snow tires.

Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Nlkko]

Buy proper snow tires for it.

[Solo_D33A]

Get snow tires for your EP

I had GSX before, reliable? HA! don't even think about it, poured in more than the car's price to fix it in the 5~ years that I've owned it.

Because after all, having AWD only meant you can get going quickly, doesn't mean you can STOP quickly.

BTW a good set of snow tires got me through many times cross country through rockies, white outs, covered highways and last snow dump in vancouver with ease in my RWD Lexus.

[evil_jigglypuff]

Are the suzuki sx4's in the price range already?

2007 Suzuki SX4 (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/ctd/2801434452.html)

If you are looking for a car to tackle snow, this is what I would get. It's reliable, it's newer, higher ground clearance? and within your price range.

[!Kodamu]

Subaru Justy

Cheap AWD

[mos_skeeto]

I would love me an awd but my front wheel drive car is fine with snow tires. I made it all the way up to a cabin with unpaved roads at Mt Baker a few winters ago and clearance was my biggest problem, not grip. I did rip apart some plastic that was under my engine tho heh.

[kwy]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/409367_10151167547780013_787690012_22269646_200264 8163_n.jpg

Should never have lowered it 2", lol. But it's made it through winter thus far, and multiple camping trips to Chilliwack Lake, Golden Ears, and plenty of crappy highway.

[unit]

where was that taken?

[Glove]

I love it when I hear people say,

"man I need awd for winter"

no you dont, my civic EG has 205x50x17 winter tires with studs,

and I was flying past huge 4X4's on the coquihalla.

its all about the tires, not about the drivetrain

[PJ]

I love it when I hear people say,

"man I need awd for winter"



I love it even more when they insist they're right, and there's little Toyotas cruising along just fine.

[ilvtofu]

I love it when I hear people say,

"man I need awd for winter"

no you dont, my civic EG has 205x50x17 winter tires with studs,

and I was flying past huge 4X4's on the coquihalla.

its all about the tires, not about the drivetrain

I love it when people in the lower mainland base their car buying decision off the <10 days a year we see snow and then consider it a free pass for having to get winters.

[Jgresch]

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/13023/13335765.jpg

[ilvtofu]

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/13023/13335765.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx94jgPqNs1qhvbd2.gif

[kwy]

where was that taken?

Abbotsford, yesterday. I think there's even more snow on the ground today.

[Muskys SS]

I've got a DSM. 95 Talon TSi AWD, which is the same as the Eclipse GSX. For a car with 200k on it, it's been pretty good. I've had to change the rad. That's really about it. Very practical, AWD, fold down rear seats, not too bad on gas. Since I lowered mine, it's lost a lot of its practicality however. Was considering an Audi A6, but they have way too many problems, as well as the other models.

Seriously, I did some research on the turbo quattro A4s and A6s, and they seem to be nothing but trouble..

Exactly! There is a big misconception on Talons and Eclipses. The only dsm's you have to worry about are years 93-96. Some of them are known to develop crankwalk over time. Other then that they are solid cars if taken care of. The "bad reliability" issues arise because the car can develop a lot of power relatively easy. The ones that have issues are usually because at one point in time a young kid purchased it who installed a manual boost controller then boosts it up to 20psi without upgrading the fuel system or ecu. Then goes out and repeatedly does 5000rpm awd launches off the line. Of course this car will eventually have some problems.

One of our technicians has a 92 talon with 310,000kms on the stock engine that is daily driven running 30psi with meth injection and making 450hp at the flywheel. He drove with this setup for years. This is an extreme example, but it's all about maintenance and not abusing the car. A 300hp dsm can be a fun reliable car that works in winter and summer. Just my .02 rant;)

On another note, I'd stay away from Audi's a lot of $$$$ to maintain. WRX's are good cars in stock form, the drivetrain can't reliably handle power levels over stock. But unless you're not happy with your civic you should just get a proper alignment and snow tires. Civic's with snow tires are great in the snow.

[godwin]

Get a cheap 4x4.. old Tahoe, Pathfinder, 4runners, heck even Rangers etc etc.. you don't want a cheap AWD car.. you want a 4x4.. Any pre 00 MY vehicles, AWD will be mechanical, you want something that parts a plenty (not to mention useful features like diff lock etc) and have plenty of ground clearance.

Make sure you get proper set of wheels...

[epicbeardman]

Ok to be honest, I am more concerned with getting a new car than the snow. I live near the skytrain station... The Civic is not a bad car, but it's getting boring. It's basically like an Eastern European house wife that cleans meticulously, and is great at cooking meat and potatoes, but not much else- the house will be spotless when you come home from work, and there will always be some hearty stew boiling in a pot, but everything else is bland. I want something funner. Something turbo-y and a GSX would be killing 2 birds with one stone.

[kwy]

Go for a GSX/TSi AWD dude. Hit up BCDSM, there's usually a few nice, well maintained AWD DSMs on there.

This one's clean, belongs to someone on BCDSM.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/bnc/cto/2800615412.html

Musky is absolutely right. These cars get an unfair reputation because they're affordable and many people who don't know better will throw on power mods without support mods. They can be just as reliable as any other car when done properly.

[skylinergtr]

get a beater jeep cherokee.

Last year I had a 91 Cherokee Sport, and it was a great beater/winter car.

realistically, with a good set of dedicated snows, you should be able to get around just fine. I have a set on my volvo 740 (rwd), and no issues thus far. Winter hasnt really come all that yet though...

[Nlkko]

Ok to be honest, I am more concerned with getting a new car than the snow. I live near the skytrain station... The Civic is not a bad car, but it's getting boring. It's basically like an Eastern European house wife that cleans meticulously, and is great at cooking meat and potatoes, but not much else- the house will be spotless when you come home from work, and there will always be some hearty stew boiling in a pot, but everything else is bland. I want something funner. Something turbo-y and a GSX would be killing 2 birds with one stone.

V8 RX-7. Not very reliable but how about the fun :fullofwin:

[heleu]

Subaru Legacy GT - AWD, turbo, manual, reliable.

..but I'm biased.

[Nightwalker]

I'd probably get a Subaru Impreza if I were in your position as far as a car goes, Jeep Cherokee or a 4runner for a 4x4.

[some_punk]

V8 RX-7. Not very reliable but how about the fun :fullofwin:

putting a LS1 in there would definately make it much more reliable than a rotary. and cheaper for parts too.

[Lomac]

So since we're all talking about DSM's and all... how much truth is there to the infamous crankwalk issue to these things?

[kwy]

It does happen. It's a lot less common on automatic cars. However, it's not nearly as common as some people make it out to be..and crankwalk can happen on any car. It's fairly common on MKIV Supras with a manual, and I've heard of it happening on big block Chevys.

Here are some stats on the causes of crankwalk..and again, it can happen on any car.

Dirt ........................................45.4%
Misassembly .......................... 12.8%
Misalignment .......................... 12.6%
Insufficient Lubrication..............11.4%
Overloading ............................8.1%
Corrosion ...............................3.7%
Improper Journal Finish ............3.2%
Other ......................................2.8%

(from dsmtuners.com)

[Neva]

Find yourself a cheap Subaru Justy!!! I found one for school and now I'm bombing past errryone. The thing is so wicked to cruise around in and costs nothing for gas. The 4x4 button on the shifter might as well be this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5unKNLcj8P8

[FerrariEnzo]

Im a little subaru biased..

First generation
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d1/1997-2000_Subaru_Impreza_RX_sedan_%282011-08-17%29_01.jpg/250px-1997-2000_Subaru_Impreza_RX_sedan_%282011-08-17%29_01.jpg
OR
Second generation (1994–1999)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/2nd_Subaru_Legacy_2.5GT.jpg/220px-2nd_Subaru_Legacy_2.5GT.jpg
OR
First generation (SF, 1997–2002)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/2000-2002_Subaru_Forester_Limited_wagon_%282011-07-17%29.jpg/220px-2000-2002_Subaru_Forester_Limited_wagon_%282011-07-17%29.jpg

Ive always wanted to get one of these.. but they are hard to find and over priced, even used..
Subaru Baja 2003 - 2006
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Subaru_Baja_Turbo.jpg/250px-Subaru_Baja_Turbo.jpg

[Muskys SS]

So since we're all talking about DSM's and all... how much truth is there to the infamous crankwalk issue to these things?

Very true. Late model 92's changed to whats called a 7 bolt bottom end which uses a different thrust bearing layout. Crankwalk doesn't happen to all the cars but we've seen soooo many of them develop crankwalk over time. It's hit or miss. Late 96's and newer were revised and don't seem to have to much of an issue. Furthermore when people upgrade the clutch to a really strong pressure plate it puts a lot of thrust pressure on the crank during start-up when you press in the clutch when there isn't good oil protection. So we usually recommend de-activating the clutch switch so you don't get as much wear.
http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/crankwalk.jpg

[underscore]

Like others have said, AWD only helps if you get stuck, I also find that people with AWD and 4WD tend to crash more because they think it makes them invincible. If you want AWD for the real benefits, then there's also the Mitsubishi/Dodge Stealth VR4, Toyota Celica GTFour, Mitsubishi Galant VR4, Nissan Skyline, Infinity G35X, BMW 325IX, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution etc etc etc

[busdriverman]

+1 for jeep cherokee

i have a 99 jeep cherokee sport and the car feels awesome in the snow even with all seasons on

i am aware that i do not have winters on so that is why i leave larger space margins
http://www.revtek.com/images/jeep/trucks/XJ_570.jpg

not mine but same colour

[SupraTTturbo2jz]

dunno what tires you got on but fwd is awesome in the snow if you have good snow tires... I have semperit speed grip tires from germany for about 3 years now and man, i plow through snow and stop on ice like its dry pavement. do your research on good snow tires and you will be fine.

[oldsnail]

my ep3 did pretty well in the snow.. of course i had blizzaks.. . it handled better than my SHAWD MDX with stock all-season..

imo, the ep3 was pretty predicable to drive and i like it overall compared to my big suv

[Gh0stRider]

it is all about the tires.

2 yrs ago i had to abandon my car on the street cause it wont move. I had all season tires.
1 year later, i put on snow tires and i want ripping through that shit like a boss.

[J-Chow]

^ true dat.

My suby with all seasons didn't help much in the snow few years back.

Slapped on some snow tires and I was like :sweetjesus::awwyeah::fuckyea::accepted:

[underscore]

+1 for jeep cherokee

i have a 99 jeep cherokee sport and the car feels awesome in the snow even with all seasons on

i am aware that i do not have winters on so that is why i leave larger space margins

not mine but same colour

I just bought a 2000 off my parents because they moved, I love these things.

[penner2k]

lol @ selling your car for awd for a Vancouver winter...

Come up to Edmonton or Calgary to see winter. I know people are gonna go on about how Vancouver is a wetter snow which is true. In Alberta they only really plow main roads which means that you are pretty much driving on ice most of the time when you arent on a main road.
Even the cheapest snow tires will be better then a good set of all seasons when it comes to snow and ice.

[Everymans]

lol @ selling your car for awd for a Vancouver winter...

Come up to Edmonton or Calgary to see winter. I know people are gonna go on about how Vancouver is a wetter snow which is true. In Alberta they only really plow main roads which means that you are pretty much driving on ice most of the time when you arent on a main road.
Even the cheapest snow tires will be better then a good set of all seasons when it comes to snow and ice.

This. I lived in northern alberta down a dirt road that they plowed maybe twice a month. Snow drifts everywhere because of the chinooks from the mountains mixed with the lack of trees. I drove a shitty ford tempo and it still managed to get through those drifts. Dealing with snow driving is a lot easier with a standard and decent winter tires. I always used all seasons because I was a cheap basterd and I learned to be light on the throttle and downshift to slow down.

As for cheap awd/winter cars. I always wanted a celica gt-4. But they're very rare and probably a pain to maintain. Subaru's are always a good answer. Same with toyota 4runners and jeeps. Both will last a lifetime, except for the body.

[Geoc]

Buy this:

Subaru Impreza WRC S8 / Rally cars for sale (http://www.rally24.com/rally-cars-for-sale/rally-car-3853.html)

problem solved.


Also AWD is not just AWD, there is electronic AWD (ie. Haldex) then there's mechanical AWD (Torsen) then the power distribution ability (i.e. 50/50 95/5) and the complexity of the AWD system (i.e. 3 LSDs on a Evo 9 vs Audi Quattro.) Then you also have each independent car companies traction control program (some sucks so much to the point that it is safer if you didn't have AWD in the first place)

What you are looking for really depends on what you expect out of the AWD system, if you get stuck in snow often then you'd want to get something with a locking diff, and if you want electronic assistance for slippery roads then get ready out major cash for something that is remotely decent.

But seriously AWD vs no AWD only plays a small part of how well a car does in winter. A well designed FWD that has good weight distro and good suspension and drivetrain setup is going to fare better than a front heavy AWD tank (with proper tires of course)

[billboa]

ill trade u my 95 jeep grand Cherokee v8 limited with flowmaster exhaust, 4x4 package and 4inch lift, great running, plus give u cash for ur ep3 lol gets around in the snow with almost bald tires nevermind if u had good ones and is pretty quick and has the v8 roar!

[falcon]

Nothing wrong with FWD in the snow IF you know how to drive and have snow tires. Of the various FWD car's I've owned, the only one I ever got stuck in was due to all season tires. Buy some GOOD snow tires and learn how to be gentle with the throttle/brake/2nd gear starts etc. and you'll be just fine. My old MK3 Golf GTI loved the snow.

[godwin]

No you got your facts wrong.. Both Haldex and Torsen have both mechanical and electronic guises. The past is hydro-mechanical (80s or earlier).. later is electronic.. 90s or 00s.. mostly when ABS became standard. They exist because Haldex is primarily designed for latitudinal engine packaging (FWD).. and Torsen is primarily for longitudinal applications.

Because Haldex is primarily designed for FWD, they are biased for the front. In the past their system sucks (as recent as the early 00 TT) because the rear don't kick in until the front completely looses traction. Now with more yaw sensors, they kind of fixed the problem.

There is honestly no "independent car companies traction control program". The car manufacturers get them from the brake controller companies.. Bosch, Hella, Siemens etc. and after the advent of ABS. They use the brake to distribution traction, basically grabbing one side of a spinning drive shaft to emulate a diff.

Buy this:

Subaru Impreza WRC S8 / Rally cars for sale (http://www.rally24.com/rally-cars-for-sale/rally-car-3853.html)

problem solved.


Also AWD is not just AWD, there is electronic AWD (ie. Haldex) then there's mechanical AWD (Torsen) then the power distribution ability (i.e. 50/50 95/5) and the complexity of the AWD system (i.e. 3 LSDs on a Evo 9 vs Audi Quattro.) Then you also have each independent car companies traction control program (some sucks so much to the point that it is safer if you didn't have AWD in the first place)

What you are looking for really depends on what you expect out of the AWD system, if you get stuck in snow often then you'd want to get something with a locking diff, and if you want electronic assistance for slippery roads then get ready out major cash for something that is remotely decent.

But seriously AWD vs no AWD only plays a small part of how well a car does in winter. A well designed FWD that has good weight distro and good suspension and drivetrain setup is going to fare better than a front heavy AWD tank (with proper tires of course)