[Xamount]

Yesterday i was involved in a car accident and i need your guys' opinions on who's at fault, etc.

What happened: (Canada, BC)

I was in a left lane waiting to turn left on a green left turn light.
I advanced into the intersection a little bit, waited for cars to pass, still green light.
The light turns yellow, more cars are coming, I am still waiting.
The left turn light turns red, I check both directions and then take my left turn because the lights on either side turned green.
A lady in an Acura MDX runs the intersection, on the red light as I am already halfway into my left turn and T-bones my passenger door.
No air bags were deployed, but I received whiplash, and what the family physician said "lumbosome spine" (cant read it)

Whos at fault?

Side note: The officer said she would have to issue me a ticket for Failure to Yield on a Left Turn on a Red light. I signed it cuz she handed it to me and said i "have" to sign here.

Also I had 3 witnesses that saw her running the red light and that it was an okay time for me to turn because when I first started turning she was not an immediate hazard.

[El Bastardo]

Honestly, I'd focus on getting well and start talking to lawyers. I'm glad you're still alive, but we may not be the best source of information on this topic.

[dbaz]

when turning left you are suppose to wait until its safe. high chance that because she ran the light they will still say you didnt check to make sure it was safe. unless you have witnesses or video you are screwed. in cases like this its almost always the fault of the person who turns left, sometimes even if they have witnesses

[Xamount]

when turning left you are suppose to wait until its safe. high chance that because she ran the light they will still say you didnt check to make sure it was safe. unless you have witnesses or video you are screwed. in cases like this its almost always the fault of the person who turns left, sometimes even if they have witnesses

I understand that but when I first started my turn, she was not an immediate hazard and I heard from witnesses after that she gunned it through the intersection with no regard for the red light and hit me.

In fact, i was ALMOST completed my left turn which means that she had alot of time to brake and yield to me. Plus it was a red light for her in the first place...

[chunk_stir]

Yesterday i was involved in a car accident and i need your guys' opinions on who's at fault, etc.

What happened: (Canada, BC)

I was in a left lane waiting to turn left on a green left turn light.
...

That's all that needs to be said for it to be your fault... unfortunately. Left turners always are at fault, regardless if the oncoming traffic is running a red.

Im not ICBC, but I'm pretty sure that's the answer you'll get.

[dbaz]

I understand that but when I first started my turn, she was not an immediate hazard and I heard from witnesses after that she gunned it through the intersection with no regard for the red light and hit me.

In fact, i was ALMOST completed my left turn which means that she had alot of time to brake and yield to me. Plus it was a red light for her in the first place...

to icbc that doesnt matter they dont care where you were only that you were turning left

[Xamount]

That's all that needs to be said for it to be your fault... unfortunately. Left turners always are at fault, regardless if the oncoming traffic is running a red.

Im not ICBC, but I'm pretty sure that's the answer you'll get.

Wtf... Given the situation, both lights perpendicular to me had turned green, I was stuck in the middle of an intersection and needed to turn left, I was ALREADY in the process of COMPLETING my left turn, shouldn't she have SEEN me turning left on a red light and yielded? I don't understand how this is my fault in any way. When I first started turning she wasn't even an immediate hazard, her car hit me at speeds that were above the speed limit.

[murd0c]

You will be at fault 100% since you were turning left. I had a friend in the same situation and always the person turning is responsible and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Xamount]

You will be at fault 100% since you were turning left. I had a friend in the same situation and always the person turning is responsible and there is nothing you can do about it.

Even if I can prove that she ran the red with witnesses?

Cuz thats fuckin bullshit if thats the case.

Motor Vehicle Act Section 174:

"When a vehicle is in an intersection and its driver intends to turn left, the driver must yield the right of way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction that is in the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but having yielded and given a signal as required by sections 171 and 172, the driver may turn the vehicle to the left, and traffic approaching the intersection from the opposite direction must yield the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn."

At the position where I was hit, after having taken pictures, I was 80% completed my turn and given that sentence in the Motor Vehicle Act and witness statements stating that she had run the red, shouldn't she have yielded the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn? (Me)

[dbaz]

just bend over and get the lube ready buddy

[Culture_Vulture]

I don't know the exact rules/regulations, but I'd say the majority of people who've responded are right.
My dad got t-boned in pretty much the same situation as you, and ICBC concluded that he was at fault, even though he had waited for a good few seconds after the lights at the intersection had turned red.

You'll probably need to talk to some lawyers, good to hear that you didn't suffer any life-threatening injuries.

[murd0c]

Even if I can prove that she ran the red with witnesses?

Cuz thats fuckin bullshit if thats the case.

Motor Vehicle Act Section 174:

"When a vehicle is in an intersection and its driver intends to turn left, the driver must yield the right of way to traffic approaching from the opposite direction that is in the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard, but having yielded and given a signal as required by sections 171 and 172, the driver may turn the vehicle to the left, and traffic approaching the intersection from the opposite direction must yield the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn."

At the position where I was hit, after having taken pictures, I was 80% completed my turn and given that sentence in the Motor Vehicle Act and witness statements stating that she had run the red, shouldn't she have yielded the right of way to the vehicle making the left turn? (Me)

I was just saying how ICBC works thats all. I hope you get off with it but prepare for the worst and if the order driver is held liable buy a lottery ticket cause I can't see that happening at all.

[dru]

If the driver t-boned your passenger side door then I couldn't consider that a 80% completed turn. Unless it was the rear passenger, but even still. But I digress, you're obviously upset and for a very good reason. Everyone is just giving you their opinion, just take it with a grain of salt, but it's always better to err on the side of caution. As someone else suggested, take care of yourself and leave it up to ICBC. If your witnesses can corroborate your story that she gunned it through a solid red when it's green for the lanes running perpendicular then in my opinion it should be her fault. This is my opinion so I could be totally wrong. Best of luck OP!
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[Xamount]

If the driver t-boned your passenger side door then I couldn't consider that a 80% completed turn. Unless it was the rear passenger, but even still. But I digress, you're obviously upset and for a very good reason. Everyone is just giving you their opinion, just take it with a grain of salt, but it's always better to err on the side of caution. As someone else suggested, take care of yourself and leave it up to ICBC. If your witnesses can corroborate your story that she gunned it through a solid red when it's green for the lanes running perpendicular then in my opinion it should be her fault. This is my opinion so I could be totally wrong. Best of luck OP!
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It was 80% because she was on her right-hand lane, so the further lane and thats why she hit my passenger door, if she was on the left hand lane for her then she wud have hit my rear passenger door im assuming, or clipped my rear bumper, I was very close to the one-way street that the left turn leads to. In essence, she had all that time to yield to my car turning left.

[_TiDy_]

I hope you got the names and numbers of your witnesses because they will pretty much determine whether you will be found at fault or not for this accident. Usually the person making the turn will be found at fault in an accident. If you have three witnesses who can give a statement which backs up your story, then you will probably be in good shape. Hope you get well soon.

[Alatar]

Better hope you have some good witnesses and that their contact info is correct.

[ImportPsycho]

yet another who's fault is it when crashing while turning left......
can we put up left the signal on every fking intersection?

[ruthless]

Who are these 3 witnesses? passengers in your car? or other random people. Did u get their contact information?(please tell me you did)
The only way you are not 100% at fault in this situation is if the witness tell the story above that she ran the red...even then its likely to be 50/50 but sometimes ICBC is nice(rarely) and may fault the other party IF the witnesses are truly on your side

Ruthless & Associates Inc.

[Gunsmokez]

Left turn person is at fault. Has happened to me as well.

[Xamount]

Who are these 3 witnesses? passengers in your car? or other random people. Did u get their contact information?(please tell me you did)
The only way you are not 100% at fault in this situation is if the witness tell the story above that she ran the red...even then its likely to be 50/50 but sometimes ICBC is nice(rarely) and may fault the other party IF the witnesses are truly on your side

Ruthless & Associates Inc.

Three witnesses:

1) a mother i have never met before
2) a student that i am acquainted with
3) ^ same as above

[Xamount]

Left turn person is at fault. Has happened to me as well.

Are you kidding me? So what you're saying is that any person can simply RUN a red light t-bone a left turn person BLOCKING traffic in the middle of the intersection where lights perpendicular were green and receive NO fault for that.

[cho]

2 and 3 in YOUR car?

[Xamount]

2 and 3 in YOUR car?

No i was the only person driving the car, the witnesses were not in my vehicle lol

[murd0c]

Are you kidding me? So what you're saying is that any person can simply RUN a red light t-bone a left turn person BLOCKING traffic in the middle of the intersection where lights perpendicular were green and receive NO fault for that.

yep thats correct. The driver that hit you will say that it was unsafe for them to stop in the weather condition's and you should of been more aware of on coming traffic which ICBC will blame you at fault. Yes it's shitty but theres nothing you can do about it.

[Aleks]

I was in an accident 6 years ago, except I was the one who t boned a car that was turning left, except she was trying to get thru after her advanced arrow has gone yellow and off. I was already moving towards my light which turned green and I proceeded. I hit her in the rear pass wheel. I was 75% at fault. So not always is the person turning left at 100% fault, in my case she was only 25% at fault
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[Yc]

as long as the 3 witnesses you have give the same story; you should be fine

[vafanculo]

You asked a question, were advised that rs is not the best place to get legal advice, and now you are disputing the answers you don't want to agree with.

Logically, yes you are correct. It was that girls fault. But unfortunately, what counts is how ICBC deals with things. And its their precedent to give you fault.

Lawyer up, and start working on your dispute.
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[Xamount]

You asked a question, were advised that rs is not the best place to get legal advice, and now you are disputing the answers you don't want to agree with.

Logically, yes you are correct. It was that girls fault. But unfortunately, what counts is how ICBC deals with things. And its their precedent to give you fault.

Lawyer up, and start working on your dispute.
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I guess I'm disputing it because I am angry at the situation/circumstances and that I think the system ICBC uses is bullshit from what the members here are saying. (About how its always 100% the left turner's fault no matter what situation no questions asked, etc)

Thanks anyways.

[hirevtuner]

it is usually the person who turns left is at fault, however, ICBC will assess where the damage to the car is to be a determining factor of % of fault for each driver

ie. I can't see how the person who turns left is at 100% fault if his quarter panel/rear bumper was damaged

witnessess will be towards your advantage if they can backup your story too, was there any red light cameras?

[Limitless]

So many of these threads made wow.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/660477-sticky-left-lane-accident.html

That thread is similar to your situation but not the same.


This thread is the same situation as you I believe. The left turner was NOT found at fault here, the driver who tboned his car ran a red light as well. The driver who ran the red was found 100% at fault. Though in this situation I think there was a video given to ICBC where it showed the driver running the red.
http://www.revscene.net/forums/656274-ferrari-accident-boundary.html

[Xamount]

So many of these threads made wow.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/660477-sticky-left-lane-accident.html

That thread is similar to your situation but not the same.


This thread is the same situation as you I believe. The left turner was NOT found at fault here, the driver who tboned his car ran a red light as well. The driver who ran the red was found 100% at fault. Though in this situation I think there was a video given to ICBC where it showed the driver running the red.
http://www.revscene.net/forums/656274-ferrari-accident-boundary.html


Thanks, I'll read both threads.

[Death2Theft]

You are at fault.

[meepmeepdeath]

id hate to say this, but my friend was in the same situation a little over a year ago, and to make it worse, the guy who hit him was drinking, but ICBC still said he was mostly at fault, and they didn't take much into account that the other guy was drunk, pretty shitty deal, and my friend has to go to court as a witness against the other guy.

[Nocardia]

This is exactly what happened to me (except I was the person going through and I SWEAR it was barely yellow).

The guy found a "witness" like a month after the accident that said I ran the red light. We hit basically head on because he started going when I was already in the intersection and it was still 100% my fault. So if you have people that say it was red for the other car and you were hit towards the rear of the car, I would find it impossible that it is at any part your fault.

PM me and I can give you more details, you should be fine.

[MeowMeow]

Remember the ferrari left turner incident not too long ago and one of the rs members had the accident recorded? Ferrari dude had same issue and it ended up being 100% red light gunner's fault so no its not always left turner's fault. As long as your witnesses give same story about gunning down red youre fine or less at fault
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[KO7]

Same thing happened to me 10 years ago, waiting to turn left and it was dark and rainy. Waited til it was safe, the light turned red, all the oncoming cars were slowing down, and then one asshole guns it and smokes me and spins the car around ($5000+ damage). Was a young kid then and didn't think to see if I could grab any witnesses. He supposedly had a witness but of course I was fucked either way. Found 100% at fault and paid for it on my insurance for many years. Good luck to you since you have witnesses.

[vixroar]

ICBC | left-turn.pdf (http://www.icbc.com/claims/Determining-fault/left-turn.pdf)

[fishCak3s]

A frd of mine was in the same incident about 5 years ago, she was in the middle of the intersection waiting to turn left. She waited until the light to turn completely red before she started to turn. A car ran the red and hit her around the passenger side head light, 911 was called and there were more than 3 witnesses saying the other car ran a complete red and was going way too fast. The other driver was found at fault.

[Xamount]

A frd of mine was in the same incident about 5 years ago, she was in the middle of the intersection waiting to turn left. She waited until the light to turn completely red before she started to turn. A car ran the red and hit her around the passenger side head light, 911 was called and there were more than 3 witnesses saying the other car ran a complete red and was going way too fast. The other driver was found at fault.

See?! Thank you! Thats my EXACT same situation, my passenger door was hit, witnesses saw she ran the red, i turned on red and was 80% complete my turn.

[hypediss]

See?! Thank you! Thats my EXACT same situation, my passenger door was hit, witnesses saw she ran the red, i turned on red and was 80% complete my turn.

So did you get your witnesses contact? It can't be the ones in your car.
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[Xamount]

So did you get your witnesses contact? It can't be the ones in your car.
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Ya she was on the side in a totally different car that saw the whole scene happen, she went over and game me her contact info to use as a witness right after the crash.

[striderblade]

Actually one of my buddy have the same incident. Icbc ruled that it was the one who ran the red at fault. But that depend on where the impact is at. He got hit close to the rear side. But if you have witness then i think you should be ok.

[FerrariEnzo]

already halfway into my left turn and T-bones my passenger door.
ICBC will prolly rules this as 50-50 coz its near the center of your car..

No air bags were deployed, but I received whiplash, and what the family physician said "lumbosome spine" (cant read it)

For this, go see doctor and then talk with a lawyer and sue them (privately) for damages if its serious

[Majestic12]

ICBC Plaintiff Lawyer here.

In many/most cases, the vehicle making the left turn is the one liable for the accident. The reason for that is, the left-turning vehicle is in a 'servient' position, and the straight-driving vehicle is in the dominant position.

All things considered, it is the servient vehicle that moves into the path of the straight vehicle, and so you have to take extra care to ensure the path is safe before proceeding. For example, just because a light flips from green to yellow doesn't mean you can just make your turn. Not that I'm saying you did that, just an example.

But in cases where the court is satisfied that the straight-driving vehicle did in fact run a red and in an unsafe and unexpected manner, he or she can be found liable for the accident.

In a nutshell, the deck is stacked against you, but if you can provide sufficient evidence to convince the court that the straight-driving car ran a red, you might be ok.

This is not legal advice, though. Go find a lawyer.

Also, here is a case I found in a quick search. It's not the best case, since it's Provincial Court, not Supreme, and it's a bit old, but whatever. It gives a decent summary of the law.

CanLII - 2001 BCPC 171 (CanLII) (http://canlii.ca/en/bc/bcpc/doc/2001/2001bcpc171/2001bcpc171.html)