[niu99]

an article from Vancouver's chinese media talked about groups of businessmen from Wenzhou are in Vancouver now and purpose of their trip is to buy properties. One agent by the name of Zhang Wei Bin (alec zhang) of Sutton picked up 4 parties at the airport alone on Monday, the first day of the year of dragon. Starting on Tuesday, they have started to look at ocean view properties in West Van, most in $5 million range, including one at 2400 Halston Crt, which those businessmen consider very cheap, comparable properties cost 3 times more in China.

Most of you may never have heard the city. It is the birth place of current day capitalism in China and it is estimated the residents of the city have amassed over $90 billion investable capital, people from Wenzhou are known as fierce business competitors, and fearless properties buyers. Wenzhou housewives formed buying teams and go from city to city to buy big chunk of new development projects and sell later for profit. they are the ones who made news in 2011 to purchase some of the most expensive properties in HK (also among the most expensive properties in the world) China's ban on multiple housing units have severely limited Wenzhou people's opportunities domestically. That is why it is interesting to see where they go next.

Here are the photos of those people on Singtao Daily, the bald guy is the agent (alec zhang/sutton)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/4316/img201201250420000.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6122/img201201250420040.jpg

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/204/filefgj.jpg

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7028/img201201250652090jpgs.jpg

[Death2Theft]

Ocean view properties? Lolz the houses that sold in the cambie 25th-41st area are all in the 4.1-5 mil range and look like old ass ranchers.

[drunkrussian]

i dont get it, why west van? cold weather and snow. why not a nice warm place like malibu or sth? is it because there are chinese ppl here? in which case, back to my question, why WEST VAN
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[twitchyzero]

what's with the last image?

[drunkrussian]

^apparently what they have in businessmen in the region, they do not have in decent graphic designers
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[Redlines_Daily]

This completely disrupts the natural flow of a local economy by driving up housing prices and causing further inflation. It would be nice if all these wealthy Chinese would use their money to help the poor and disabled in their own country, instead of fucking up our economy just to make more millions. Talk about no moral compass at all. I'm going to china in march for a study and volunteer program..how fucked up is that? That a country with some of the richest people in the world needs volunteers to help their own citizens.

Im all for making profit and bettering ones self, but there comes a time when you say to yourself "ok, I have 5 houses and tens of millions of dollars, maybe it's time to help others".

[Gridlock]

I find it ironic that a communist country has wealthy business men to begin with. By its very nature, should not everyone be equal?

Oh. Corruption. Got it!

[Death2Theft]

Well property owners in these areas enjoy the million + added value property tax increases this year ;)

[Death2Theft]

Because the chinese are very adept at dealing with corrupt dictators. Why buy anywhere in the states when the shady laws come and bite you in the ass and take away your ownership rights.
i dont get it, why west van? cold weather and snow. why not a nice warm place like malibu or sth? is it because there are chinese ppl here? in which case, back to my question, why WEST VAN
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[CP.AR]

I find it ironic that a communist country has wealthy business men to begin with. By its very nature, should not everyone be equal?

Oh. Corruption. Got it!

they aren't really in the traditional sense of Marxist communist anymore. They have been running a hybrid of communism/capitalism where the government controls everything EXCEPT wealth distribution

[Gridlock]

Never thought of that, but American politicians do have a habit of taking on pet peeve projects that could turn and bite people in the ass.

I don't know though, that in this day in age they could actually pull off something specifically targeted at foreign ownership. And by "foreign" I mean asians and brown people, because those are the ones Americans love to hate.

[Qmx323]

"99% of the wealth is controlled by 1% of the population"...

and that 1% doesn't even live IN China.

:okay:

[Gridlock]

they aren't really in the traditional sense of Marxist communist anymore. They have been running a hybrid of communism/capitalism where the government controls everything EXCEPT wealth distribution

Oh yeah, I know...it was more sarcasm than anything. It's truly bizarre that you now have a dictator government that does everything EXCEPT provide the one supposed benefit of communism-that being equal wealth distribution.

[A-Dev]

Gallery: What $350,000 can buy you across Canada (http://www.theprovince.com/business/Gallery+What+across+Canada/6029194/story.html)

looks like i'm moving away haha

[4444]

Because the chinese are very adept at dealing with corrupt dictators. Why buy anywhere in the states when the shady laws come and bite you in the ass and take away your ownership rights.

don't agree AT ALL, the US won't ever just take away property from certain groups - if they do restrict, tax unfairly, or whatever else to foreign investors, tehy know they'd fuck themselves over.

lets just put it this way, i own a bunch of property in the states and none here and i have no concern that I'll be treated unfairly - and if, by some miniscule chance, they do start rumbling, i could just sell

only dumb and slow people get screwed by governments like that (although we all 'truly' get screwed by the government, but at least that's a level playing field)

[CorneringArtist]

This completely disrupts the natural flow of a local economy by driving up housing prices and causing further inflation. It would be nice if all these wealthy Chinese would use their money to help the poor and disabled in their own country, instead of fucking up our economy just to make more millions. Talk about no moral compass at all. I'm going to china in march for a study and volunteer program..how fucked up is that? That a country with some of the richest people in the world needs volunteers to help their own citizens.

Im all for making profit and bettering ones self, but there comes a time when you say to yourself "ok, I have 5 houses and tens of millions of dollars, maybe it's time to help others".

THIS. I have a feeling by the time I'll be in the market for a home in 7-10 years, foreign investment will have saturated the market with homes costing double what they do now.

[Anjew]

i havent seen so many puffy jackets in one spot since aberdeen

[Death2Theft]

I am more referring to just general corruptoin where you go to the states buy a house pay the owner find out that there is still money owing to some bank or "holding agency" or lien or fines for non payment and getting clear ownership is just a giant pain in the butt and in some cases not even doable.
Never thought of that, but American politicians do have a habit of taking on pet peeve projects that could turn and bite people in the ass.

I don't know though, that in this day in age they could actually pull off something specifically targeted at foreign ownership. And by "foreign" I mean asians and brown people, because those are the ones Americans love to hate.

[Excelsis]

fuck you corrupt motherfuckers, i want a house too

[Lomac]

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6122/img201201250420040.jpg

Okay, that would fucking piss me off to no end. A prospective buying smoking on my property? Not only will the smell possibly get into my house, but where is he going to dump his butt once it's done?

No respect for other people, I tell you...

[Death2Theft]

You are so uniformed about the US it's fucking retarded.
A home owner was just fined and had to tear down all construction of their new house because there was standing water after rainfall. According to some fucked up law for that state/county/city/town/district makes it "wetlands" and your not allowed to build on wetland.
So guess what happens after some insider buddies purchase it for dirt cheap with connections? They rezone it after buying it for pennies on the dollar. That kind of bullshit isn't happening YET in Canada but that is just a tiny example of whats going on.
Bet you didn't know that in some places the fines for having grass above a set level is in the THOUSANDS of dollars per day. So if your an old geezer who goes to the hospital you come back guess what FINES.
I'm sure you know california is underwater in debt. Do you know how many states are in worse situations? How do you think they are going to generate revenue?
You think mainlanders are going to travel halfway around the globe to a place where they dont even speak the langauge.... because they want to gamble? They are purchasing here for stability and the price for that, to them is DIRT CHEAP.
Do you think for one split second the people in charge in the US are not trying to start a civil war? Thats exactly what they want to happen and the problems are only going to get worse.

At the end of the day you can feel free to put your money where your mouth is and go buy some more property in the states. I know where my money wont be going.
don't agree AT ALL, the US won't ever just take away property from certain groups - if they do restrict, tax unfairly, or whatever else to foreign investors, tehy know they'd fuck themselves over.

lets just put it this way, i own a bunch of property in the states and none here and i have no concern that I'll be treated unfairly - and if, by some miniscule chance, they do start rumbling, i could just sell

only dumb and slow people get screwed by governments like that (although we all 'truly' get screwed by the government, but at least that's a level playing field)

[hypercube]

they aren't really in the traditional sense of Marxist communist anymore. They have been running a hybrid of communism/capitalism where the government controls everything EXCEPT wealth distribution

So their people get the worst of both sides :lawl:

[MG1]

One agent by the name of Zhang Wei Bin (alec zhang) of Sutton

Thought of Zhang Fei for a split second, LOLOLOLOLOL.



I miss him.......... no homo.

[Euro7r]

I'm sick and tired of seeing these mother fuckers coming here and buying up everything. It's disappointing to see many people that were born and raised here having to move away because they can't afford to live here in this city.

[4444]

You are so uniformed about the US it's fucking retarded.
A home owner was just fined and had to tear down all construction of their new house because there was standing water after rainfall. According to some fucked up law for that state/county/city/town/district makes it "wetlands" and your not allowed to build on wetland.
So guess what happens after some insider buddies purchase it for dirt cheap with connections? They rezone it after buying it for pennies on the dollar. That kind of bullshit isn't happening YET in Canada but that is just a tiny example of whats going on.
Bet you didn't know that in some places the fines for having grass above a set level is in the THOUSANDS of dollars per day. So if your an old geezer who goes to the hospital you come back guess what FINES.
I'm sure you know california is underwater in debt. Do you know how many states are in worse situations? How do you think they are going to generate revenue?
Your thinking some mainlander who has allll this money is just going to roll the dice in North America, where they barely speak english and just buy in the states?
Do you think for one split second the people in charge in the US are not trying to start a civil war? Thats exactly what they want to happen and the problems are only going to get worse.

At the end of the day you can feel free to put your money where your mouth is and go buy some more property in the states. I know where my money wont be going.

wow, are you some kind of conspiracy theory nut or something?

yes there are rules down there that if you break you have to pay, many of which are HOA based.

i'm not building anything, so i don't have to worry about anything like that, all my properties have full due diligence performed on them, are managed, and fully insured, so i'm not quite sure what kind of whack job theories you have about the world (and civil war? get a grip), but what i do know is that you will probably talk yourself out of an amazing opportunity to make a solid investment with sound fundamentals with low risk.

there are always ppl who do things wrong (perhaps mr. standing water), and there are always ppl who do dodgy handshake deals with insider information, but to say my properties will go up in smoke is ludicrous

why don't you tell me how 9/11 was an inside job (whether it was or not doesn't mean anything, but a lot of crack pots like to have themselves heard, and i'm getting the same feeling from you)

[Death2Theft]

The chinese are used to dealing with bullshit like this. This is what happens when too many levels of government are fucking people over.
Enjoy the "grip" you have if any of these gov agencies decides to grab ahold of your balls.






Stories about overreach from Washington, D.C. abound, but just when you think you've heard them all comes yet another that makes you shake your head in disbelief and wonder just whom is supposed to be working for whom in this grand old Republic of ours.

Taking into account that most of us want clean air, fresh water to drink and a sustainable environment - and that government has a role to play in ensuring these resources are preserved - there comes a point where that role grows well beyond its original intent and begins to infringe on the constitutional rights of the citizens. Just ask Mike and Chantell Sackett, who are battling the leviathan Environmental Protection Agency just to be able to build a home on land they bought years ago in Idaho.

They bought all of the permits. They spent thousands of dollars preparing the land. But just as they were ready to begin construction, the EPA swooped in, pronounced their property a wetlands (even though it sits in the middle of a residential neighborhood that contains sewer lines and scores of other homes) and issued a compliance order calling on them to return the land to its original state or face daily fines of $37,500 per day.

And here is where the comedy of errors really begins.

Surely officials at the EPA would be reasonable, the Sackett's thought. After all, there were homes surrounding their plot of land. There was infrastructure. And they'd done everything they were supposed to do to "comply" with all of the rules. With all of that in mind, they appealed to the agency for a hearing on the issue. But instead of hearing the couple out, EPA officials blew them off, rejecting their appeal out of hand. So, with little alternative, the couple decided to take the plunge, hire some lawyers and sue the EPA to get the agency to listen.

The agency's response? The EPA said the couple wasn't allowed to sue. Huh?

On the one hand, the agency was arguing that it was more than capable of handling complaints like that of the Sackett's through its "administrative process." But on the other hand, it wasn't giving the couple access to its administrative process: A classic Catch-22.

As if that outrage wasn't enough, the agency then tried to claim that no one has the constitutional right to bypass a compliance order and go straight to federal court for relief. So, no right to appeal, and no right to sue.

Sure.

Throughout, the EPA maintained that the couples' land indeed was on a wetlands so, undaunted, the couple took the economic plunge and did bring their case to federal court where, in the end, it wound up before the U.S. Supreme Court. And there, the tragic comedy continued.

Justice Elena Kagan, a former solicitor general and one of the high court's most liberal members, took the EPA's side. Oblivious to the fact that the EPA denied the Sackett's initial request for an appeal, Kagan asked, "Couldn't you have gotten the legal determination that you wanted through that process?" Attorneys for the plaintiffs patiently explained that process was prohibitively costly and time-consuming - especially since they didn't live in a wetlands area to begin with.

The good news is, at least some of the justices were empathetic to the Sackett's plight, seemingly realizing the daunting task they faced in trying to get an unresponsive system to be...responsive.

"Don't you think most ordinary homeowners would say this kind of thing can't happen in the United States?" Justice Samuel Alito asked Justice Department attorney Malcolm Stewart.

Source:

Supreme Court Hears Case Of 'Dream House' Stopped By EPA | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/09/supreme-court-hears-case-dream-house-stopped-by-epa/)

Learn more: EPA drops jackboot on necks of couple for daring to build on their own land (http://www.naturalnews.com/034669_EPA_Sackett_wetlands.html#ixzz1kszxXuuG)

[Infiniti]

they aren't really in the traditional sense of Marxist communist anymore. They have been running a hybrid of communism/capitalism where the government controls everything EXCEPT wealth distribution

They're what we like to call.."State Capitalists"

[skyxx]

I'm not a big fan of how China run things but how else are you going to control over 1.2 billion people.

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOOK 99% of ppl on RS won't even be buying the hosuese these chinese are looking.

Honestly how many of you will have enough money to buy a 5+ million house. Most average people buys below 1million anyways. So really they might drive up the prize of these so call expensive housese but it wouldn't affect average joe's houses.

There are other factors that is driving up the price of housing in vancouver (Rich chinese being one) but it is not just all Rich Chinese there are tons of other factors as well.

[sindragon]

LOOK 99% of ppl on RS won't even be buying the hosuese these chinese are looking.

Honestly how many of you will have enough money to buy a 5+ million house. Most average people buys below 1million anyways. So really they might drive up the prize of these so call expensive housese but it wouldn't affect average joe's houses.

There are other factors that is driving up the price of housing in vancouver (Rich chinese being one) but it is not just all Rich Chinese there are tons of other factors as well.

:fulloffuck: i have so much to say but do not want to give a wall of text

:seriously: you are wrong in so many levels. This fucks up EVERYTHING in vancouver.

[!SG]

vancouver is the mecca capital for asians.

there are plenty of airlines with direct flights right into vancouver,

vancouver ports is a natural trading hub for imports.

weather in vancouver/bc is favorable (clean air suppositely)

and why west van? cuz its mountain side. and its the rich, west van, british properties...

i dont get it, why west van? cold weather and snow. why not a nice warm place like malibu or sth? is it because there are chinese ppl here? in which case, back to my question, why WEST VAN
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[nah]

Last year when there was that buying frenzy from the Mainlanders this was what happened at the Sunstone development in Delta.

New Single Home prices:
April - $650,000
May - $750,000
July/Aug - $950,000 (last one)

Pretty redonkulous.

[SupraMan604]

I doubt they bought in Delta:suspicious:

[wstce92]

Oh yeah, I know...it was more sarcasm than anything. It's truly bizarre that you now have a dictator government that does everything EXCEPT provide the one supposed benefit of communism-that being equal wealth distribution.

The supposed benefit of communism is that in a perfect world, you have the brightest running the country for the good of the country and not for personal gain; without being brought down and "speed-bumped" by the every-man who doesn't know what's best for the country. In their view, democracy is stupid, because half your population isn't educated enough to make good decisions. Equal wealth distribution is the expected outcome of such a system, as in a perfect world, the country would prosper and everyone can live comfortably. But with human nature and such a large population coming into play, Chairman Mao realized long ago that for China to prosper, they have to embrace some capitalistic ideas. It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white; as long as it catches a mouse, it's a good cat. (loosely translated)
Another supposed benefit of communism is that with government control on practically everything, it makes it easier for the government to manipulate the market for gain.


And fun fact, back in the day, only whites were allowed to own property in the British Properties.

[nah]

I doubt they bought in Delta:suspicious:

Prices rose dramatically after the Japanese earthquake and how Richmond wouldn't be there if the same thing happened here.

Those houses were not worth 750k-950k but they got sold.

[Redlines_Daily]

LOOK 99% of ppl on RS won't even be buying the hosuese these chinese are looking.

Honestly how many of you will have enough money to buy a 5+ million house. Most average people buys below 1million anyways.

This particular article focuses on $5+ million homes, but they also buy houses and condo's in every price range including sub-$1mill. It's not just foreign buyers, but also locals that engage in property flipping that drive prices up. IMO, there should be a heavy speculator tax to discourage this kind of buying. Homes are for living in, not for making profit! How about we invest our money into our economy instead of against it!

[Excelsis]

one day i will go crazy :devil:

[bloodmack]

great for my family we own so many houses that are easily worth millions now cause of these guys. Thanks :thumbs:

[shawnly1000]

If they do start buying up West Van up in force, it'd be interesting to see how they mix in with the existing predominantly Persian/Caucasian residents there.

[Excelsis]

great for my family we own so many houses that are easily worth millions now cause of these guys. Thanks :thumbs:

too bad you got kicked out :troll:

[Mr.HappySilp]

:fulloffuck: i have so much to say but do not want to give a wall of text

:seriously: you are wrong in so many levels. This fucks up EVERYTHING in vancouver.

U really think is only the rich chinese.....

There are also rich Indians, Italians, Americans..... that's doing the same thing.... only difference is that we don't speak their langauge, reald thier fourms so therefore we only hear about chinese........

[bloodmack]

^Correct
too bad you got kicked out :troll:

I could go back home any day, except unlike the kids on RS I can survive on my own.

[Harvey Specter]

The next wave of money will be from India. There's surreal amount of cash money in India which will eventually make it into Canada.

[xclone2002]

I can’t believe how redneck and ignorant people are in Vancouver. Maybe it’s because I’ve been living in China for the past 9 months and maybe it’s because I don’t feel sorry for those pissed that the real estate prices are being driven up.

The point is there are rich people coming out of China because it is currently the world’s second largest economy. Why do they have the money to buy properties in West Van and multiple luxury cars when the majority of people can only dream of doing such things?

The economy of China is production-based, whereas most developed nations have consumption-based economies. Meaning while you’re sitting on your ass wining and dining and buying iPods and LCD TVs and paying off that credit card debt you owed from 2 months ago, the Chinese are the ones producing these products and raking in on the money Western economies cough up.

Many of the people going abroad and buying up properties are owners of their own businesses. They made THEIR money by playing by the rules of THEIR own country. And yes, there are rules to follow, even if they don’t follow western standards.

I’ve seen multiple posts claiming 'corruption' this, 'corruption' that. Yes, corruption does exist. But it’s heavily penalized, usually by death if caught. 5 million Canadian dollars is by no means a small sum. With a banking system MUCH more monitored than Canada’s, no one can funnel that kind of money nowadays.

There's a way of doing business in China called 'guanxi' and it's NOT corruption. Ever hear of networking? The relationship building skills they teach you in business school? ‘Guanxi’ is networking on not only a business level, but a personal one as well. Once you know the right people and have the brains and balls, there’s a lot more money to be made in China than in any western country.

I could go on and on.

To those of you pissed at the Chinese jacking up your real estate prices, ask yourself, “Why didn’t you work towards a down payment and invest?”

Why am I not pissed that prices are going up? Because I worked my ass off, paid for a down payment on a Yaletown apartment before the building was finished and now the rent I collect pays for the mortgage, with more left over every month.

Oh, and thanks to the Chinese, the value of my proper increased about 30% from the time purchased it.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

[Manic!]

White person buys a house. No one cares.
Asian buys a house. People bring out the pitch forks.

[Harvey Specter]

I'm not Asian and I think all this hate towards Asians is bs. Just remember it was Asian money from Hong Kong that poured in after Expo that made Vancouver a "world class city" and the reason why this city is staying afloat especially in this economic downturn is because of the money from the pacific rim so don't get it twisted.

[taylor192]

For all those talking about driving up prices, you'll be happy to know prices are down:

Vancouver home prices finally dropping | Personal Finance | Financial Post (http://business.financialpost.com/2011/12/02/vancouver-home-prices-dropping-but-still-1-million-plus-for-a-detached-home/)

If you look at condos, since 2009 they haven't made fuck all, barely keeping up with inflation. Why anyone would want to park that much money into an asset barely keeping up with inflation is beyond me.

This year we're already seeing records levels of inventory, and significantly lower sales than average, so there's nothing to indicate prices will increase - yet you never know.

For those watching bubbles, you'll be happy to know Australia has popped despite foreign ownership rules and being a destination for wealthy Asians. So I say let them come, buy as much as they can, hopefully it'll pop this bubble.

[b0unce. [?]]

I'll just buy an expensive car and live in it :fuckthatshit:

[Mr.HappySilp]

For all those talking about driving up prices, you'll be happy to know prices are down:

Vancouver home prices finally dropping | Personal Finance | Financial Post (http://business.financialpost.com/2011/12/02/vancouver-home-prices-dropping-but-still-1-million-plus-for-a-detached-home/)

If you look at condos, since 2009 they haven't made fuck all, barely keeping up with inflation. Why anyone would want to park that much money into an asset barely keeping up with inflation is beyond me.

This year we're already seeing records levels of inventory, and significantly lower sales than average, so there's nothing to indicate prices will increase - yet you never know.

For those watching bubbles, you'll be happy to know Australia has popped despite foreign ownership rules and being a destination for wealthy Asians. So I say let them come, buy as much as they can, hopefully it'll pop this bubble.

Can I use a needle and pop the bubble lol :fullofwin:

[Redlines_Daily]

I can’t believe how redneck and ignorant people are in Vancouver. Maybe it’s because I’ve been living in China for the past 9 months and maybe it’s because I don’t feel sorry for those pissed that the real estate prices are being driven up.

The point is there are rich people coming out of China because it is currently the world’s second largest economy. Why do they have the money to buy properties in West Van and multiple luxury cars when the majority of people can only dream of doing such things?

The economy of China is production-based, whereas most developed nations have consumption-based economies. Meaning while you’re sitting on your ass wining and dining and buying iPods and LCD TVs and paying off that credit card debt you owed from 2 months ago, the Chinese are the ones producing these products and raking in on the money Western economies cough up.

Many of the people going abroad and buying up properties are owners of their own businesses. They made THEIR money by playing by the rules of THEIR own country. And yes, there are rules to follow, even if they don’t follow western standards.

I’ve seen multiple posts claiming 'corruption' this, 'corruption' that. Yes, corruption does exist. But it’s heavily penalized, usually by death if caught. 5 million Canadian dollars is by no means a small sum. With a banking system MUCH more monitored than Canada’s, no one can funnel that kind of money nowadays.

There's a way of doing business in China called 'guanxi' and it's NOT corruption. Ever hear of networking? The relationship building skills they teach you in business school? ‘Guanxi’ is networking on not only a business level, but a personal one as well. Once you know the right people and have the brains and balls, there’s a lot more money to be made in China than in any western country.

I could go on and on.

To those of you pissed at the Chinese jacking up your real estate prices, ask yourself, “Why didn’t you work towards a down payment and invest?”

Why am I not pissed that prices are going up? Because I worked my ass off, paid for a down payment on a Yaletown apartment before the building was finished and now the rent I collect pays for the mortgage, with more left over every month.

Oh, and thanks to the Chinese, the value of my proper increased about 30% from the time purchased it.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Just because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you doesnt mean they are lazy or dont work hard, or dont have money. I also played in the real-estate speculation game, I bought a lake-side condo in Penticton that I had no intention of ever living in. I was young and just wanted to make money, fortunately for me I grew up a little. I believe this type of investing is unethical, there are many ways to make money folks.

"Dont hate the player, hate the game". Thats the problem with this world, the game IS the problem..but we can choose to play it or not.

[Matlock]

I don't care if they buy all of the high end homes. If they rip it down and build new or even renovate, I'll be the one with lots of work to be done.

As of right now all I can do is dream about owning an entry level home outside of Vancouver.

White people drive up the prices just as much as Asians do, it's true. You guys don't see how many high end houses we build for clients that simply use these 10,000+ square foot homes as a weekend retreat simply because they don't like living in hotels.

[Manic!]

Just because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you doesnt mean they are lazy or dont work hard, or dont have money. I also played in the real-estate speculation game, I bought a lake-side condo in Penticton that I had no intention of ever living in. I was young and just wanted to make money, fortunately for me I grew up a little. I believe this type of investing is unethical, there are many ways to make money folks.

"Dont hate the player, hate the game". Thats the problem with this world, the game IS the problem..but we can choose to play it or not.

Did you rent the condo out?

[achiam]

For all those talking about driving up prices, you'll be happy to know prices are down:

Vancouver home prices finally dropping | Personal Finance | Financial Post (http://business.financialpost.com/2011/12/02/vancouver-home-prices-dropping-but-still-1-million-plus-for-a-detached-home/)

If you look at condos, since 2009 they haven't made fuck all, barely keeping up with inflation. Why anyone would want to park that much money into an asset barely keeping up with inflation is beyond me.

This year we're already seeing records levels of inventory, and significantly lower sales than average, so there's nothing to indicate prices will increase - yet you never know.

For those watching bubbles, you'll be happy to know Australia has popped despite foreign ownership rules and being a destination for wealthy Asians. So I say let them come, buy as much as they can, hopefully it'll pop this bubble.

Condos aren't the main thing we're looking at. We're talking about detached family homes. For houses, it's not a bubble. The middle and upper class of China is only going to grow more. According to Immigration Canada, as of August 2011, there was a backlog of 300,000 Mainland China immigrants applying to BC specifically using the business class/investor visa, which now requires them to bring in $1.6M CAD in liquid cash. Based on what I hear from my realtor friends in Vancouver and now even London (they're buying up there and Sydney, Aus too), the vast majority have FAR, FAR more than $1.6M in liquid cash.

We're talking about people who land at YVR, and buy a $3M house in liquid cash the next day.

[MindBomber]

Just because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you doesnt mean they are lazy or dont work hard, or dont have money. I also played in the real-estate speculation game, I bought a lake-side condo in Penticton that I had no intention of ever living in. I was young and just wanted to make money, fortunately for me I grew up a little. I believe this type of investing is unethical, there are many ways to make money folks.

"Dont hate the player, hate the game". Thats the problem with this world, the game IS the problem..but we can choose to play it or not.

The majority of lake side developments in the Okanagan aren't built with the local population in mind, they cater specifically to part-time residents and tourist rentals. With tourism being a driving force in the economy of the Okanagan and a significantly higher number of condo units on the market than would ever be necessary to serve the needs of the local population, I'm not sure how investing in real estate there could be considered unethical.

[dbaz]

should change the 1.6mil they are required to 5mil+. money can be well spent by the government if they choose to be smart

[Manic!]

We're talking about people who land at YVR, and buy a $3M house in liquid cash the next day.

That's awesome.

Agent makes money, homeowner makes money, and the government makes money. It they don't live here that's even better. there paying the city for things like garbage collection and they are not even using it. Let's also not forget the other businesses that will benefit, like maintenance.

[xclone2002]

Just because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you doesnt mean they are lazy or dont work hard, or dont have money. I also played in the real-estate speculation game, I bought a lake-side condo in Penticton that I had no intention of ever living in. I was young and just wanted to make money, fortunately for me I grew up a little. I believe this type of investing is unethical, there are many ways to make money folks.

"Dont hate the player, hate the game". Thats the problem with this world, the game IS the problem..but we can choose to play it or not.

I didn't say that anyone was lazy or that they don't work hard.

But I'm a realist. In one of your first posts here, you say that you're going to China in the coming months to volunteer program. You have my complete respect. However, at the end of it what's going to change? You're going to go back to Canada and share your horror stories with everyone you know when the reality is you've only touched the tip of the ice berg.

Yes, the problem IS the game, but either play it or be left behind. It would be nice if we could all wake up tomorrow and have the world's problems disappear, but is that going to happen?

Human beings are evil and greedy. They naturally want more out of life. From your perspective, you have everything that someone coming out of a first world nation can have. Volunteering for a few weeks might give you a bit of pride and make you feel that you're doing something for the world. But what's going to change?

Maybe instead of coming out here and trying to solve problems out of your reach, you can start by helping the homeless in Vancouver. Socialism doesn't work and doesn't do good for the society. How many times have you heard stories of the bums on East Hastings begging for money for food? And when you actually buy them a sandwich, they'll just go and throw it away?

[Redlines_Daily]

Did you rent the condo out?

No, I sold it. At the time it seemed like the smart thing to do..the market was strong and it was easy money. I still think this is a viable strategy for new buyers trying to work their way up to a better home, my issue is when extremely rich people engage in this type of investing..like the previous poster mentioned "the game"...some people see the world as a game and just want to make as much money as the can even if they dont need it. Once we stop looking at this world as a game, we can start building a future for all the people instead of a fortunate few.

You know, I really don't mean to critisize the rich and I certainly don't single out the Chinese...I just try to spread my view of the world, and hope that once people have built a comfortable life for themselves they can think of helping others instead of just amassing more wealth.


The majority of lake side developments in the Okanagan aren't built with the local population in mind, they cater specifically to part-time residents and tourist rentals. With tourism being a driving force in the economy of the Okanagan and a significantly higher number of condo units on the market than would ever be necessary to serve the needs of the local population, I'm not sure how investing in real estate there could be considered unethical.

Im glad you asked this question. You are correct, most people buying those condo's are not locals, but wealthy tourists buying a Summer home. Myself, I had no intention of living in the condo, I simply wanted to hold it, then sell it at a higher price.

But why? If I hadn't flipped it, someone else who really wanted to live there could have bought it for the pre-construction price. So what happened? They still got their condo, but they had to pay a significantly higher price..possibly eating into their savings/retirement fund. I didn't offer any service to the public, all I did was create more burden in someone elses life, simply so I could make a profit.

I won't be doing that type of investing anymore. I have enough money to live a great life (most of us do, we just have an appetite for material objects), so I make sure all of my future investments at least offer a service or help others in addition to making me profit.

EDIT- by the way, this is the same reason why I don't buy futures contracts or commodities. :D. I'm having an even more difficult time trying to explain that to friends and colleagues! :p

[hk20000]

At this rate the British Properties will be called the Chinese Properties soon.

BAH TUM TSSS

[xclone2002]

No, I sold it. At the time it seemed like the smart thing to do..the market was strong and it was easy money. I still think this is a viable strategy for new buyers trying to work their way up to a better home, my issue is when extremely rich people engage in this type of investing..like the previous poster mentioned "the game"...some people see the world as a game and just want to make as much money as the can even if they dont need it. Once we stop looking at this world as a game, we can start building a future for all the people instead of a fortunate few.

You know, I really don't mean to critisize the rich and I certainly don't single out the Chinese...I just try to spread my view of the world, and hope that once people have built a comfortable life for themselves they can think of helping others instead of just amassing more wealth.

I never actually told you I was going to flip anything. In fact, if and when I do choose to live in Vancouver again, I will be living there. It was a personal investment for my own future. Hope that clears things up.

[Redlines_Daily]

I didn't say that anyone was lazy or that they don't work hard.

But I'm a realist. In one of your first posts here, you say that you're going to China in the coming months to volunteer program. You have my complete respect. However, at the end of it what's going to change? You're going to go back to Canada and share your horror stories with everyone you know when the reality is you've only touched the tip of the ice berg.

Yes, the problem IS the game, but either play it or be left behind. It would be nice if we could all wake up tomorrow and have the world's problems disappear, but is that going to happen?

Human beings are evil and greedy. They naturally want more out of life. From your perspective, you have everything that someone coming out of a first world nation can have. Volunteering for a few weeks might give you a bit of pride and make you feel that you're doing something for the world. But what's going to change?

Maybe instead of coming out here and trying to solve problems out of your reach, you can start by helping the homeless in Vancouver. Socialism doesn't work and doesn't do good for the society. How many times have you heard stories of the bums on East Hastings begging for money for food? And when you actually buy them a sandwich, they'll just go and throw it away?

Completely understand your perspective! I just don't agree with it! :p. I am hopeful that if enough people change their way of thinking that bigger change will happen in generations to come

I never actually told you I was going to flip anything. In fact, if and when I do choose to live in Vancouver again, I will be living there. It was a personal investment for my own future. Hope that clears things up.

Absolutely, and a smart choice too if you plan on living there again. Sorry, I was referring to speculation-investing in general, not specifically to you!

[LiquidTurbo]

I'm sick and tired of seeing these mother fuckers coming here and buying up everything. It's disappointing to see many people that were born and raised here having to move away because they can't afford to live here in this city.

Didn't know you planning to get a 5 million dollar house!

[Excelsis]

I’ve seen multiple posts claiming 'corruption' this, 'corruption' that. Yes, corruption does exist. But it’s heavily penalized, usually by death if caught.


too bad you could pay your way out of death by giving the prosecutor a good amount

[taylor192]

Condos aren't the main thing we're looking at. We're talking about detached family homes. For houses, it's not a bubble. The middle and upper class of China is only going to grow more. According to Immigration Canada, as of August 2011, there was a backlog of 300,000 Mainland China immigrants applying to BC specifically using the business class/investor visa, which now requires them to bring in $1.6M CAD in liquid cash. Based on what I hear from my realtor friends in Vancouver and now even London (they're buying up there and Sydney, Aus too), the vast majority have FAR, FAR more than $1.6M in liquid cash.

We're talking about people who land at YVR, and buy a $3M house in liquid cash the next day.
London house prices are down.
Sydney house prices are down.
Vancouver house prices are down.

Sales are down in all 3 cities.

~200K new immigrants call Canada home every year, with 60% being Asian, and only 16% calling BC home. 60% of 16% is ~10% of 200K or 20K people. Average 3 per family, that's ~6K families buying homes.

~100K properties are sold in BC in an average year. That amounts to 6% of the BC market.

Investor class immigration is capped:
The Federal Immigrant Investor Program is now closed as 700 complete applications have been received at the Centralized Intake Office. This new annual cap was introduced through ministerial instructions, which came into force on July 1, 2011.

Take your Realturd crap elsewhere.

[Gridlock]

RE: Flipping Houses

In my mind, there is nothing wrong with flipping houses. The problem is, in Vancouver, the term flipping got co-opted by people buying pre-sales and flipping them when the condo was built.

Why people were buying them at a 10-20% or more premium when the were built, I have no idea. Some people just like to touch and feel before they buy.

Flipping in the traditional sense of buying a "shitty" house and renovating it and re-selling is a benefit to the housing stock. It improves the neighborhood both aesthetically and through property value and people "can" make money in the process. The problem is, even the shitty houses now are 600k. The house has less to do with purchase price..its land.

At one point, I was going to be the renovation end of a house flipping organization. We were looking at houses all over the city. Finally, they decided instead of buying and renovating they decided to buy and re-build. They had bought one property and sold it for a profit, and I don't even think they got to the point of pulling permits. They marketed it differently. Fuck the house, here's what you can build on this size lot in this location. Use this guy, and sign me a check. The original owners could have done the same thing, but didn't. They tried to put lipstick on a pig and sell the original home.

Is that right or wrong? I have no ethical problem with that.

He finally got to the point of telling his real estate agent that he wanted properties in this price range, either priced low for the area or on the market for 30+ days, just go in and make an offer. Tell them cash sale, so guaranteed financing, whatever closing date they want and no inspection. Don't even clean the thing.

The people have a choice. I take a guaranteed offer thats a bit low, or dick around with someone that is going to pick the place apart with a home inspector and take a chance for an extra 20g.

If you are in a position where you can write the check and take the risk, then the rewards are yours.

A lot of people would have a huge issue with buying a house practically sight unseen.

[taylor192]

I still think this is a viable strategy for new buyers trying to work their way up to a better home, my issue is when extremely rich people engage in this type of investing..like the previous poster mentioned "the game"...some people see the world as a game and just want to make as much money as the can even if they dont need it. Once we stop looking at this world as a game, we can start building a future for all the people instead of a fortunate few.
As I said before, I have no clue why anyone with money would buy a condo only to get little more than inflation over the past 2 years. Wealthy buyers should be smarter than the average joe.

The real problem is wealthy buyers can afford to take the loss and afford to move they investments elsewhere when the market turns - while locals are stuck and cannot afford the loss.

Outside of the lower mainland prices are down, in the interior quite a bit. I think the time for new buyers has passed, they should sit it out and see what happens. if they sat out the last 2 years in the lower mainland they missed out on minimal gains, yet if they sat out elsewhere in BC, especially the interior they are up, as anyone who got in recently has lost money.

[taylor192]

I won't be doing that type of investing anymore.
I applaud your intentions.

I'm actually OK with the "game" yet that's cause I'm OK with the outcome. Any game has winners and losers. The problem is the average joe tries to get into the "game" thinking they cannot possibly lose. Capitalism is has its ups and downs. Everyone loves the ups, yet the downs wipe the average Joe out while the wealthy can buy back in at new lows and make money on the up and down.

[Noizz]

If I hadn't flipped it, someone else who really wanted to live there could have bought it for the pre-construction price. So what happened? They still got their condo, but they had to pay a significantly higher price..possibly eating into their savings/retirement fund. I didn't offer any service to the public, all I did was create more burden in someone elses life, simply so I could make a profit.

I won't be doing that type of investing anymore. I have enough money to live a great life (most of us do, we just have an appetite for material objects), so I make sure all of my future investments at least offer a service or help others in addition to making me profit.

Faith in humanity restored! :ahwow:

Well put, I couldn't agree with you more. The majority of the benefit goes to the parties involved and less is contributed social welfare. By that I mean the well-being, health and prosperity of a person or community.


On a related note, I thought this was a pretty eye-opening article.
Cage dogs of Hong Kong: The tragedy of tens of thousands living in 6ft by 2ft rabbit hutches - in a city with more Louis Vuitton shops than Paris

Hong Kong's cage homes: Tens of thousands living in 6ft by 2ft rabbit hutches | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2084971/Hong-Kongs-cage-homes-Tens-thousands-living-6ft-2ft-rabbit-hutches.html)

[StylinRed]

I’ve seen multiple posts claiming 'corruption' this, 'corruption' that. Yes, corruption does exist. But it’s heavily penalized, usually by death if caught. 5 million Canadian dollars is by no means a small sum. With a banking system MUCH more monitored than Canada’s, no one can funnel that kind of money nowadays.

lol.... yes there's a death penalty if you're not paying off all the right people and there's a risk that you might piss off the wrong guy or need to be made an example of (something that your payment doesn't cover) that's why they try to get their money and families out

and no... you can get money out, theres always a way around everything but this is also why there's a market for launderers/smugglers to help these people get their cash out to canada/usa/europe

There's a way of doing business in China called 'guanxi' and it's NOT corruption. Ever hear of networking? The relationship building skills they teach you in business school? ‘Guanxi’ is networking on not only a business level, but a personal one as well. Once you know the right people and have the brains and balls, there’s a lot more money to be made in China than in any western country.


guanxi is becoming less and less useful as compared to how it was but that subject is quite different from the corruption

to say guanxi makes you money, is fine but guanxi also helps out corruption


not to say there aren't "legitimate" (everyone bends the rules) multi millionaires it'd be stupid to assume there isn't

[superdennis]

I read that those WenZhou guy's came and bought nothing.

I'm a realtor myself and I deal with Chinese immigrants.
I'm fairly new to the game but I notice my clients don't throw their money at any house they see. I still write a load of offers and counter/recounter until everyone is happy at a fair price.

There are so many factors on how home prices are driven up.
Home sellers ultimately set the price on how much they want to sell their homes for.
I lost a listing because the comparative market analysis I presented was low. Another realtor who wanted to list the house for a crazy amount got the listing.

It also doesn't help when BC Assessment assessed homes really high for 2012. Sellers just think their homes are worth even more.

The market is slowing down and house prices are dropping slightly. There is currently too much supply and not enough demand.

[mikemhg]

Fuck these people.

[Gridlock]

I read that those WenZhou guy's came and bought nothing.

I'm a realtor myself and I deal with Chinese immigrants.
I'm fairly new to the game but I notice my clients don't throw their money at any house they see. I still write a load of offers and counter/recounter until everyone is happy at a fair price.

There are so many factors on how home prices are driven up.
Home sellers ultimately set the price on how much they want to sell their homes for.
I lost a listing because the comparative market analysis I presented was low. Another realtor who wanted to list the house for a crazy amount got the listing.

It also doesn't help when BC Assessment assessed homes really high for 2012. Sellers just think their homes are worth even more.

The market is slowing down and house prices are dropping slightly. There is currently too much supply and not enough demand.

Oh man, realtors are a breed upon themselves. I could totally represent buyers, I think it would be fun and interesting. Sellers on the other hand? I just don't think you can do it without losing just that little part of your soul.

When my family bought the house in Abbotsford, we met up with a realtor that we then started working with for representing us. He was amazing. We'd go into a place and just stand there. In the good way, like a waiter at a fancy restaurant. If you had a question, he'd launch into action. Someone made a comment about what the size of the backyard was at a place. Next thing, you look out the window and he's measuring it.

We found him really great, but I can imagine a lot of others wouldn't. I don't need one of those douchy realtors that walk you through the place, "oh look how cozy this living room is!" Oh, you mean, look how small this thing is?

[Death2Theft]

Then what is there left to trade that benefits others?

EDIT- by the way, this is the same reason why I don't buy futures contracts or commodities. :D. I'm having an even more difficult time trying to explain that to friends and colleagues! :p

[Jayboogz]

Money talks man. Aint nothing you can do but work hard and worry bout your own.

[97ITR]

The next wave of money will be from India. There's surreal amount of cash money in India which will eventually make it into Canada.

what I'm hearing is that we're going to see an explosion in Subway, Quiznos, and 7-11 franchises :fullofwin:

[GabAlmighty]

Fuck em. Atleast this way I'll get to satiate my love for seeing luxury cars wrecked.

[PiuYi]

the people we should really be mad at is the federal and provincial governments. it is THEIR responsibility to keep housing affordable for its residents and they are failing that in every respect. foreign ownership laws should be much stricter than they are now.

too bad all the government sees are millions of tax dollars pouring in from new developments :(

[J____]

Fuck these people.

you mean fuck yourself for not being able to make enough money to own property in a city that you want to live in?

[bigzz786786]

fucking hell, i was planning to move near downtown vancouver on the west side, or west van, just to get away from richmond/richmond drivers

[Lomac]

Canada absolutely needs immigrants to support much of the infrastructure we all take for granted. Think about it this way: These people that are coming in and spending millions of dollars are spending more in taxes that go towards things like Health Care and transit than the majority of the members on RS combined will contribute in half a dozen years. Like it or not, we need rich immigrants to effectively pay for our medical bills, our roads, our TV (okay, HNIC since that's on CBC, a publicly owned station), etc., etc.

Are people like those talked about in the OP's article the reason why house prices are super high? Partially, yes, but not entirely. Sure, the large majority of us will never buy a $5mil+ house, myself included. However, there's always the trickle down effect. Two neighbours living side-by-side both have their houses on the market, both with the same price. One has a bidding war and it sells for 50% more than asking price. The next door neighbour will then think their house is worth just as much, so they jack up the price. Someone two blocks away in a slightly less desirable house see's their neighbours houses going for much more, so they then decide that market value for their house will be that much more. And so forth and so forth down the line.

The other issue is that the Lower Mainland has a very limited amount of space. Think about it; there's an ocean to the west, a mountain range on the east, the USA border to the south, and hickville to the north. The majority of usable land has already been built upon and if you build on what's left, it will begin to destroy the natural beauty that drove people to live here in the first place. Cities need to build up, not out. I hate skyscrappers with a passion, at least as a residential zone, but it's realistically the only alternative to keeping housing prices at a relatively decent level.

Vancouver is also a popular destination. People can compare Vancouver to places like New York, Paris, and London when it comes to housing prices. No, we're not as expensive as the aforementioned cities, but think about what people there feel when they're unable to move into the respective downtown centers. I would never feel like I'm entitled to a cheap, ocean view apartment in New York, just as I don't feel like someone owes me a cheap house in West Van. Desirability drives up prices, whether you like it or not. And as for people buying properties to flip? Those who are buying $1mil+ homes to flip aren't targeting first time buyers. Hell, even those buying $600k homes to flip usually aren't intentionally going after first time buyers. If you so badly need a brand new home as a first buy, there are hundreds of apartments going for between $2-300k in the Lower Mainland.

And if you still want a four bedroom, three bath house on the Ocean for under $200,000... then move to Nova Scotia (http://idx.filogix.com/idx/SSNS/display_property.html?key=119387.4265389&id=4406412&ptype=res).

[Bonjour43MA]

Money can't buy class.

That's all I can say about most rich Chinese people around the world.

[Lomac]

Money can't buy class.

That's all I can say about most rich people around the world.

Fixed.

You can usually tell when someone has new money vs old money.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Fixed.

You can usually tell when someone has new money vs old money.

Or poor RS complainning :fullofwin:

[iEatClams]

For those watching bubbles, you'll be happy to know Australia has popped despite foreign ownership rules and being a destination for wealthy Asians. So I say let them come, buy as much as they can, hopefully it'll pop this bubble.

Taylor, can you provide link to a reliable source?

I can't seem to find a creditable source on this topic.

[SpuGen]

Canada absolutely needs immigrants to support much of the infrastructure we all take for granted. Think about it this way: These people that are coming in and spending millions of dollars are spending more in taxes that go towards things like Health Care and transit than the majority of the members on RS combined will contribute in half a dozen years. Like it or not, we need rich immigrants to effectively pay for our medical bills, our roads, our TV (okay, HNIC since that's on CBC, a publicly owned station), etc., etc.


Not exactly.
A bunch of those Mainlanders buying these 2-5+ Mil Houses are on welfare. It's almost common knowledge for most Asian circles. It's fucking disgusting, and the government does nothing about it.

Worst case scenario? Wifey moves here into the new house. Kids get into school. Husband divorces her.

Wife gets Welfare cheques, and child support from the Husband.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Not exactly.
A bunch of those Mainlanders buying these 2-5+ Mil Houses are on welfare. It's almost common knowledge for most Asian circles. It's fucking disgusting, and the government does nothing about it.

Worst case scenario? Wifey moves here into the new house. Kids get into school. Husband divorces her.

Wife gets Welfare cheques, and child support from the Husband.

lol they don't even need to do that. Since the wife won't be working so she is consider low income - free health care, child support + tons of other benfits. The gov. should be more smarter is like come on if you are no income how can u afford to live in a million dollar house@@

[.Renn.Sport]

lol.... yes there's a death penalty if you're not paying off all the right people and there's a risk that you might piss off the wrong guy or need to be made an example of (something that your payment doesn't cover) that's why they try to get their money and families out

and no... you can get money out, theres always a way around everything but this is also why there's a market for launderers/smugglers to help these people get their cash out to canada/usa/europe



guanxi is becoming less and less useful as compared to how it was but that subject is quite different from the corruption

to say guanxi makes you money, is fine but guanxi also helps out corruption


not to say there are "legitimate" (everyone bends the rules) multi millionaires it'd be stupid to assume there isn't

for fuck sakes, just shut the fuck up.
you know nothing on how the economy works in china. corruption money is hardly anything compare to the money ppl earn legit. There are villagers become millionaires over night becuz their property becomes a site for re-development.

my family have close to $1B in cash reserve that could not be taken out of china legally. pretty much any money earned in china could not leave the country. of course I can use those underground banks to transfer my money.

oh btw, no one bribes people in cash anymore

seriously, you probably never even been to china, let alone talk about how ppl do business.

[Mr.HappySilp]

for fuck sakes, just shut the fuck up.
you know nothing on how the economy works in china. corruption money is hardly anything compare to the money ppl earn legit. There are villagers become millionaires over night becuz their property becomes a site for re-development.

my family have close to $1B in cash reserve that could not be taken out of china legally. pretty much any money earned in china could not leave the country. of course I can use those underground banks to transfer my money.

oh btw, no one bribes people in cash anymore

seriously, you probably never even been to china, let alone talk about how ppl do business.

$1B yen or $1B gold in WoW @@

[StylinRed]

for fuck sakes, just shut the fuck up.
you know nothing on how the economy works in china. corruption money is hardly anything compare to the money ppl earn legit. There are villagers become millionaires over night becuz their property becomes a site for re-development.

my family have close to $1B in cash reserve that could not be taken out of china legally. pretty much any money earned in china could not leave the country. of course I can use those underground banks to transfer my money.

oh btw, no one bribes people in cash anymore

seriously, you probably never even been to china, let alone talk about how ppl do business.


you cant take money out but of course there are ways to take money out? rofl are you fucking ok? you're openly contradicting yourself....


my family are partners with the people you'd only hope to one day be able to kiss up to so please stop with your bullshit; hell if you knew who my family was you'd be kissing my ass lol

you've proven time and time again that you dont know anything and bullshit the rest of the time

please keep quiet ;)


(see that's some of your own crazy medicine)

[observer]

Chairman Mao realized long ago that for China to prosper, they have to embrace some capitalistic ideas. It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white; as long as it catches a mouse, it's a good cat. (loosely translated)

It was Deng who saved China, introducing market economy, reversing Mao's damages done all these years. The white/black cat saying came from Deng, not Mao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping).

After Mao's death in 1976, Deng fought for his power and overthrown Mao's successor, Hua in 1978.

Mao's leadership in China was indeed a mess, people tend to forget how poor China was under his rule, there was widespread famine, no property ownership rights, and Chinese were not allowed to leave China.

[.Renn.Sport]

you cant take money out but of course there are ways to take money out? rofl are you fucking ok? you're openly contradicting yourself....


my family are partners with the people you'd only hope to one day be able to kiss up to so please stop with your bullshit; hell if you knew who my family was you'd be kissing my ass lol

you've proven time and time again that you dont know anything and bullshit the rest of the time

please keep quiet ;)


(see that's some of your own crazy medicine)

I guess you don't under stand the word legally and illegally

maybe I really should keep quiet. debating at an idiot is nothing proud of.

btw, one of my business partner is the no.1 richest guy in WenZhou. I'm pretty sure I'm more connected than you, Since I am already doing billions dollars worth of business in China and you are still driving a celica. keep your bs to yourself

[ae101]

^
well just wait till he betrays you, as im sure u know what wenzhou is now famous for after last year :troll:

[StylinRed]

I guess you don't under stand the word legally and illegally

and you dont seem to understand that i specifically noted there are ways to get it out both legally and illegally... even Douglas College found a way to get their money out legally if you were involved with business at all you would know how...

maybe I really should keep quiet. debating at an idiot is nothing proud of.

btw, one of my business partner is the no.1 richest guy in WenZhou. I'm pretty sure I'm more connected than you, Since I am already doing billions dollars worth of business in China and you are still driving a celica. keep your bs to yourself

rofl bwahahaha keep your BS to yourself you'd be doing the entire forum a favour for once (if its true at all, as you said your family is doing the business, not you, your family. you wouldnt be peddling some iphone4s if you were)

btw my uncles trophy wife, her family is the richest in wenzhou that's really nothing special... as noted in the past i have dinner at Lais apartment when he was in vancouver because my cousin and he were business partners &
my family have been partners with the premiers and their families when your family was still selling fish balls out of a cart

what you haven't seemed to learn though is none of that is special on here in RS it just makes you look like a crazy douchey kook... (hence your title)

again please keep your bs off this site for once, please; everyone can tell stories, no1 knows if its true or not... and no1 cares because this site isnt for that... you want to keep up your bs go make an account on Vansky and join the other douches



and taking a dig @ celicas? :tantrum so what if i still keep and maintain it? you're still driving a yaris... again none of that matters on here it just furthers the stigma that RS has of you...

[Eff-1]

At the end of the day, when those Chinese guys show up, you know who the real winner is?

That real estate agent!

[taylor192]

the people we should really be mad at is the federal and provincial governments. it is THEIR responsibility to keep housing affordable for its residents and they are failing that in every respect. foreign ownership laws should be much stricter than they are now.
Where do we have a law that states it is their responsibility? If we want it, its our responsibility to get our government to enact these laws, yet no-one has.

Foreign ownership rules did not help Australia, nor other countries, as the problem is US, not them. We're greedy and bid up the prices of the next great thing trying to get rich. First financials in the 80s, then tech in the late 90s, then housing, now commodities, and next education and health care.

Germany has an excellent system to keep prices down, by taxing your primary residence heavily when sold if you haven't lived there long enough. This essentially cuts flippers and speculators out of the market, and their prices reflect this. German real estate has averaged only inflationary gains for the better part of 2 decades.

Moreso, < 50% of Germans own a house, cause its not profitable to do so. They rent, which gives them more mobility in down markets to find jobs - again another huge plus.

too bad all the government sees are millions of tax dollars pouring in from new developments :(
Municipal governments especially. The taxes paid by existings neighbourhoods are not enough to support them, so by ever expanding they can keep taxes down and rape new developments for fees to subsidize existing developments.

Expect property taxes to increase if the bubble pops and building stops.

[taylor192]

Taylor, can you provide link to a reliable source?

I can't seem to find a creditable source on this topic.
My friend in Perth, Aus has been sending me links to properties priced less now than when she was looking last year, and stories that prices are down. I delete them, yet I'll scan my inbox later to see if I can find some.

[taylor192]

Canada absolutely needs GOOD immigrants to support much of the infrastructure we all take for granted.
I corrected your post.

The Conservatives are changing the immigration system cause it is broken. Canada has been receiving ~80% return on each new immigrant since the laws were loosen a couple decades ago cause the quality of immigrant has decreased. Ie we are losing money on each new immigrant by subsidizing services for them as they do not earn enough to pay for 100% of their cost to society - nevermind add to society like you're wrongly assuming.

For those thinking I'm being racist, don' bite my head off unless you understand my argument. We used to have a very tight immigrant policy that rewarded immigrants with skills, that was loosened a few decades ago letting virtually anyone in regardless if they offered any benefit to Canadian society. There's TONS of studies on this, I welcome you to read them.

The other issue is that the Lower Mainland has a very limited amount of space.
There's lots of land, that myth gets debunked over and over. Look around at the construction, tons of density going up and Surrey will eclipse Vancouver in size cause there's tons of room to expand.

[EmperorIS]

all i hear in this thread:

Baby crying - YouTube

[taylor192]

(see that's some of your own crazy medicine)
What's wrong with you? You cannot even write a proper sentence, you shouldn't be trying to give people a "taste of their own medicine".

:facepalm:

[StylinRed]

What's wrong with you? You cannot even write a proper sentence, you shouldn't be trying to give people a "taste of their own medicine".

:facepalm:

somebodies still butt hurt i see from the anal raping :)

[GLOW]

btw, one of my business partner is the no.1 richest guy in WenZhou. I'm pretty sure I'm more connected than you

:noob:

sorry, this image comes to mind whenever i see the word connected now

[MG1]

You cannot even write a proper sentence, you shouldn't be trying to give people a "taste of their own medicine".


Run together sentence right there..............




You cannot even write a proper sentence. You shouldn't be trying to give people a "taste of their own medicine".

OR..........

If you cannot even write a proper sentence, you shouldn't be trying to give people a "taste of their own medicine".

I used to criticize people for poor writing skills, but nobody is perfect, including me. Just Saiyan.


Why can't we be friends?

[StylinRed]

if i expected myself & others on here to write with perfect grammatical skills every time we posted i'd be an anal, fat, balding, drug user with a like minded girlfriend that "taught" sex ed in the dtes... may as well kill myself

[taylor192]

Why can't we be friends?
Cause I get tired of his non-nonsensical arguments. Want to be taken seriously? Write a proper sentence with capitalization, punctuation, spell checked and with decent grammar.

BTW a comma splice is an anal English teacher thing. Its accepted in literature.

[taylor192]

if i expected myself & others on here to write with perfect grammatical skills every time we posted i'd be an anal, fat, balding, drug user with a like minded girlfriend that "taught" sex ed in the dtes... may as well kill myself
Please do.

If you want to be taken seriously, continue writing as above.

[Gridlock]

Well this thread was doomed as soon as everyone whipped out their iDicks 2.0 and it turned into a testosterone fueled romp of who's family's were more connected with who.

And I submit: How dare you people make it that I agree with not one, not 2 not 3 but ALL OF TAYLOR'S POINTS???

[StylinRed]

if i expected myself & others on here to write with perfect grammatical skills every time we posted i'd be an anal, fat, balding, drug user with a like minded girlfriend that "taught" sex ed in the dtes... may as well kill myself

Please do.

If you want to be taken seriously, continue writing as above.

:lol I'm not though, but if you believe someone with said life should kill themselves what are you still doing here ;)

Cause I get tired of his non-nonsensical arguments.

indeed

Well this thread was doomed as soon as everyone whipped out their iDicks 2.0 and it turned into a testosterone fueled romp of who's family's were more connected with who.



i was just acting like Hyde hoping he'd see how gay it was; it shouldn't be taken seriously by any others ;)

[drunkrussian]

taylor's the bomb.com

[taylor192]

:lol I'm not though, but if you believe someone with said life should kill themselves what are you still doing here ;)

One day we'll meet and you'll see how truthful your description is. As I said before, lots of people like hiding behind usernames to say things they wouldn't ever say in real life. Cya Mar 18.

[EmperorIS]

shit just got real

[taylor192]

shit just got real
To be clear, there's no animosity in my post. I just prefer people who talk crap be willing to say it in real life, or not say it at all. I fully expect I could have a beer with Gridlock and others, and we'd still call each other assholes. :)

[StylinRed]

One day we'll meet and you'll see how truthful your description is. As I said before, lots of people like hiding behind usernames to say things they wouldn't ever say in real life. Cya Mar 18.

dino etc already found your photobucket and showcased your pictures.... my description is based on your own self expression

[taylor192]

dino etc already found your photobucket and showcased your pictures.... my description is based on your own self expression

Cya in Mar. :hi:

[InvisibleSoul]

Honestly how many of you will have enough money to buy a 5+ million house. Most average people buys below 1million anyways. So really they might drive up the prize of these so call expensive housese but it wouldn't affect average joe's houses.
You don't think there's a cascade effect?

If there were local buyers that would have bought the $5M houses and can't anymore, they will drive up the prices of the $4M houses. When that happens, the local buyers that would have bought the $4M houses can't buy them anymore, so they drive up the prices of the $3M houses. It continues down the food chain, so it definitely affects people buying $1M houses.

[StylinRed]

mar.??

[m!chael]

.

[taylor192]

mar.??
http://www.revscene.net/forums/662101-3-18-mark-day-revscene-net-spring-meet-twenty-twelve.html

I expect you to say :hi: since you know what I look like.

[StylinRed]

ah i see

maybe ill finally show up to a meet for once just to do so ;)


StylinRed = 30 year old virgin who spends his entire days on Revscene lol

michael! eya see ur still lurking about i almost thought you gave up on this :P

[taylor192]

Back on topic:

This is my favourite local housing blog: Vancouver Condo Info (http://vancouvercondo.info/)

While they are very bearish, it is great that a local Realtor updates the blog with real numbers daily: January 2012 Daily Numbers « | VCI Forum (http://vancouvercondo.info/forum/topic/january-2012-daily-numbers#post-2102)

[taylor192]

You don't think there's a cascade effect?

If there were local buyers that would have bought the $5M houses and can't anymore, they will drive up the prices of the $4M houses. When that happens, the local buyers that would have bought the $4M houses can't buy them anymore, so they drive up the prices of the $3M houses. It continues down the food chain, so it definitely affects people buying $1M houses.

Not really. That end of the price range is very small. Hell last year just one house that sold for $10M skewed the average monthly stats for Richmond (I think) so much the sale had to be excluded or the median used. It was mentioned in the blog I linked above.

So while you're technically correct, its just not big enough to cause the ripple you state.

[Gridlock]

To be clear, there's no animosity in my post. I just prefer people who talk crap be willing to say it in real life, or not say it at all. I fully expect I could have a beer with Gridlock and others, and we'd still call each other assholes. :)

Oh yeah. I think you are an ass, and I suspect I'm not the first, not last to do so. To hell with a beer, lets get the kids together and drop a little e. :)

That said, its one internet personality to another making revscene entertaining for all.

Also, lets be clear, dinosaur isn't a member of my e-army out stalking Taylor because he hurt her feelings. She used google. If Taylor wanted to not have people find other shit about him, I guess he would have called his photobucket 'Taylor191'. Would have thrown her off his trail, given that she's 'uneducated'. :badpokerface:

[Gridlock]

Back to the topic at hand...its all demand.

I do think there is relevance to having a group of buyers with access to capital that are going to drive up pricing based on demand. Build it and they will come. (side note, best movie line of all times. Used to the point of cliche)

The question is, what are you going to do about it?

Limit foreign ownership? Taylor pointed out Australia, and I'm willing to take his word on it. Hell, we can stay in Canada and use PEI as an example. They have limits on non-resident ownership. It is still expensive to buy there because its a limited commodity. The island is small.

Even though house prices are high in Vancouver, I think we need them to be. You drop prices to allow new buyers in, which is great, but you fuck over current owners-owners that have re-financed and god knows what to the actual equity of their home. That is what caused the problem in the US! In Vancouver, people are buying at the limit of their finances and you drop the prices by 20% and watch the problems start.

We're technically under water on our rental property. Bought it at the high in the market, and watched the value plummet in the following year. Then watched as the developer parked another block of houses right next door to take up any remaining slack in the demand.

One aspect that has not been examined is the role of credit to all this. If I have a group of buyers that have CASH, there is less of an incentive to drop pricing to match a difficult loaning market. Yeah, we haven't been affected as bad as the US, but if you had a bunch of rich Canadians swoop in and buy up Las Vegas, you would expect the pricing to rise as you have bypassed the problem of buyers obtaining credit.

So even if 'rich' foreign buyers aren't driving up prices, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to assume that they could be holding prices up as compared to what pricing would be without them.

[!SG]

if i was that rich, id be doing the exact same thing, buying up property everywhere.

whats given is population will grow, and physical livable land is pretty much constant at any developed nation.

if i was flowing with money, id put it into something relatively stable, real estate, precious metals, resource type investments. anything that is stable, with a decent stable roi.

it sucks that foreign investment demand drives up housing prices. but thats just life. we are looking at the 5% buying up the upper scale of the real estate market, but there are 20x more ppl just buying smaller real estate, condos, for investment as well.

if gov't blocks foreign investment, they are killing themselves. these investors might not live here, but they still gotta pay property taxes or some sort of taxation. thats straight out revenue for gov't

[iEatClams]

I corrected your post.

The Conservatives are changing the immigration system cause it is broken. Canada has been receiving ~80% return on each new immigrant since the laws were loosen a couple decades ago cause the quality of immigrant has decreased. Ie we are losing money on each new immigrant by subsidizing services for them as they do not earn enough to pay for 100% of their cost to society - nevermind add to society like you're wrongly assuming.

For those thinking I'm being racist, don' bite my head off unless you understand my argument. We used to have a very tight immigrant policy that rewarded immigrants with skills, that was loosened a few decades ago letting virtually anyone in regardless if they offered any benefit to Canadian society. There's TONS of studies on this, I welcome you to read them.


There's lots of land, that myth gets debunked over and over. Look around at the construction, tons of density going up and Surrey will eclipse Vancouver in size cause there's tons of room to expand.

I agree that the immigration system is broken, just not sure if this new system will make it better.

and plus 1 with the land thing. The land reason is only a minor factor. There's tonnes of land in surrey and north of the fraser river that has not been fully developed. Look at New West, property prices there havnt gone up as much as other areas. (maybe the New West stigma?)

[!SG]

hahaha...




And I submit: How dare you people make it that I agree with not one, not 2 not 3 but ALL OF TAYLOR'S POINTS???

[taylor192]

Even though house prices are high in Vancouver, I think we need them to be. You drop prices to allow new buyers in, which is great, but you fuck over current owners-owners that have re-financed and god knows what to the actual equity of their home. That is what caused the problem in the US! In Vancouver, people are buying at the limit of their finances and you drop the prices by 20% and watch the problems start.
I appreciate you're underwater and that sucks, yet the market dropping doesn't screw those who bought at the high mark, they screwed themselves.

People shouldn't buy at the limit of their finances, and I wish the Cons would drop the mortgage criteria back to sensible levels. The 30/35/40yr mortgage is one thing, yet the 32% GDS and 40% TDS being raised to unlimited GDS and 46% TDS (with good credit) is silly. Before I was limited to a mortgage that was 32% of my income (GDS), yet now with an unlimited GDS I'm only limited by TDS. With good credit and no debts, in theory I can spend half my income on a mortgage.

That is wrong, and that is why many FTBs are getting themselves in too deep.

[Gridlock]

I appreciate you're underwater and that sucks, yet the market dropping doesn't screw those who bought at the high mark, they screwed themselves.

People shouldn't buy at the limit of their finances, and I wish the Cons would drop the mortgage criteria back to sensible levels. The 30/35/40yr mortgage is one thing, yet the 32% GDS and 40% TDS being raised to unlimited GDS and 46% TDS (with good credit) is silly. Before I was limited to a mortgage that was 32% of my income (GDS), yet now with an unlimited GDS I'm only limited by TDS. With good credit and no debts, in theory I can spend half my income on a mortgage.

That is wrong, and that is why many FTBs are getting themselves in too deep.

I agree.

I definitely did not put that in a "poor me" way at all. It really is the townhouse that Satan built for a variety of reasons.

Unfortunately, whether they screwed themselves, or got screwed by outside events of the market, they are equally screwed, and start taking out others with them. We've seen what happens in the states. It doesn't take long for a screwed home owner to not buy a new car, or a un-needed construction worker to be on EI not needing the financial services of a mortgage broker on through the ranks until it sorts itself out.

I say all of that understanding that there are risks to anything. People just happened to believe that housing will always go up.

Yes, there is opportunity in anything. One drop in 20% allows new people into the market and do their thing.

I think the immediate loss would be harder felt than the longer term opportunity.

I'm always wary of a downturn in Vancouver. All the indicators are there. We max out on affordability of homes, max out on pricing of homes compared to Canada, and we're on to being compared to other traditional high priced markets.

If we're on top...then what is more likely? Go further up? Plateau or go down?

Well, we've done "gone up", and we're at "plateau" or options are stay or fall.

[BlackZRoadster]

I like the new wave of immigrants simply because:

I sell more cars.

I make more money.

PROFIT!

[taylor192]

People just happened to believe that housing will always go up.
I want to address this first. People didn't just happen to believe it, they saw others getting rich and wanted in on the gravy train. Its pure greed.

Unfortunately, whether they screwed themselves, or got screwed by outside events of the market, they are equally screwed, and start taking out others with them. We've seen what happens in the states. It doesn't take long for a screwed home owner to not buy a new car, or a un-needed construction worker to be on EI not needing the financial services of a mortgage broker on through the ranks until it sorts itself out.
Absolutely, those are the ups and downs of capitalism.

My favourite book on this subject is The Ant and The Grasshopper. When times are plentiful you should be saving away for when times are tough. Unfortunately Disney taught us that those who save will bail out those to play, while in the original book the Grasshopper dies and we all learn an important lesson.

I don't feel bad for that construction worker, car salesman or mortgage broker. They made great money while the economy was up, they should have budgeted for when the economy tanked.

[Gridlock]

And the worst thing done in recent history is replace all that, with one thing:

The Bail Out Economy.

Fuck it up bad enough, and we'll haul yo'ass out.

[blum2001]

To those of you pissed at the Chinese jacking up your real estate prices, ask yourself, “Why didn’t you work towards a down payment and invest?”

Why am I not pissed that prices are going up? Because I worked my ass off, paid for a down payment on a Yaletown apartment before the building was finished and now the rent I collect pays for the mortgage, with more left over every month.

Oh, and thanks to the Chinese, the value of my proper increased about 30% from the time purchased it.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

+1 for this comment. I'm in the same boat as you. The first thing I thought of when I saw this thread was "why hate the chinese? They're helping the value of my properties". Hell I'm happy when I hear these news stories because I know they're still interested in Vancouver. 40% increase on my pricipal residence, and 30% on each of my rental properties. Thank you Mainlanders and other rich people wanting to invest in Vancouver.

[BlackZRoadster]

The only thing i hate about my property increasing in value is property tax.

I'm still living in it, so i dont care if it goes up by 15-20% in value. I still need a place to live and i pay more taxes b/c of it.

[parm104]

We do one of these threads every year!

Honestly, these people have money by playing it smart and making wise investments. They will continue to do so to support a lavish lifestyle and to ensure that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren will be able to enjoy the same. After all, wouldn't you want your family to enjoy amazing luxuries? I know I would.

Coming to Vancouver to invest in a property, a business or promoting a product is really all the same. Your capitalizing in a market that you have not yet taken advantage of. There is nothing illegal being done and it's fair business. You can argue that you don't like what they're doing, but at the end of the day, they're doing nothing wrong or illegal.

It's easy to sit here and say "if I had that much money, I would make sure I did what I could so that people less fortunate could also make lots of money." But the world doesn't work that way. If you had a million dollar idea, would you go and tell everyone, or would you try to capitalize from it?

I just don't understand the mentality being this way of thinking. It's the way the real estate market has always worked. Prices go up and down based on supply and demand. How many of you have actually go on MLS to seriously look for multi-million dollar properties and houses? I know I have, and I can tell you one thing, these houses DON'T sell that easy. There is a small percentage of people who can afford these properties and thus the pool of people who are interested in them is rather small making it more difficult to sell. Lately I've found that the only people who end up buying them, are indeed immigrants. If your house wasn't selling to anyone local and you've had it up for sale for 3 years, would you say no to a Chinese immigrant who is ready to pay you asking price? Of course not!

This double standard has got to stop, and SOME PEOPLE that claim they would act differently in the situation if they had money, are simply in denial.

[taylor192]

Infographic: The rise in Canadian median household income - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/infographic-the-rise-in-canadian-median-household-income/article2205720/?from=2205685)

http://beta.images.theglobeandmail.com/archive/01331/web-nw_gen_squeeze_1331832a.png

[iEatClams]

The only thing i hate about my property increasing in value is property tax.

I'm still living in it, so i dont care if it goes up by 15-20% in value. I still need a place to live and i pay more taxes b/c of it.

This is a huge misconception, your property value increasing doesn't necessarily correlate to you paying more property taxes.

I'll give you an example.

If the city's budget stays the same from the previous year, and EVERYBODY's property values go up 30%, does that mean everybody will be paying 30% more property tax? . . . .NO! and vice versa if everybodies property values go down 30% does not translate to everybody paying 30% less property taxes.
People will be paying the same level of taxes.

However in reality the budget increases 1-3% a year, and some peoples property value go up more than others, while others may go down.

So the GENERAL rule is: if your property values go up more than average, you pay more tax, and if your property value increases less than the average, you pay less taxes year over year.

[dinosaur]

such a weird universe we have when Gridlock and Taylor192 get along and agree one something ;)

[BlackZRoadster]

This is a huge misconception, your property value increasing doesn't necessarily correlate to you paying more property taxes.

I'll give you an example.

If the city's budget stays the same from the previous year, and EVERYBODY's property values go up 30%, does that mean everybody will be paying 30% more property tax? . . . .NO! and vice versa if everybodies property values go down 30% does not translate to everybody paying 30% less property taxes.
People will be paying the same level of taxes.

However in reality the budget increases 1-3% a year, and some peoples property value go up more than others, while others may go down.

So the GENERAL rule is: if your property values go up more than average, you pay more tax, and if your property value increases less than the average, you pay less taxes year over year.


Thats not the case, my property tax goes up every year based on the rising property value.

[Pochacho]

Thats not the case, my property tax goes up every year based on the rising property value.

because:
1. either ur property is out-increasing other properties in the area, or
2. the city needs more money for the budget

[Redlines_Daily]

.., and anyone that claims they would act differently in the situation if they had money, is simply in denial.

Speak for yourself, but don't make false statements to justify your way of thinking. I know many people who are not wealthy, yet dedicate their lives to helping others. Likewise, I have met quite a few multi-millionaires that live in modest houses and drives ordinary cars because they choose to live that way..they spend their money helping other people instead of collecting material things. You are in denial in thinking that everyone is like you.

[!SG]

property tax is based on a few factors.

1) last years assestment of your property value
2) % towards property tax.

say ur assestment goes up, but % goes down, this combo can go either way in how much property tax u pay, assuming all else is the same as last year (you didnt get married, and your not retired, whatever that other category was)

most times than not, ur assestment goes up, but % towards what u pay as property tax in $$$ amount stays the same. since one factor still went up, the amount u pay went up... compared to last year.



because:
1. either ur property is out-increasing other properties in the area, or
2. the city needs more money for the budget

[parm104]

Speak for yourself, but don't make false statements to justify your way of thinking. I know many people who are not wealthy, yet dedicate their lives to helping others. Likewise, I have met quite a few multi-millionaires that live in modest houses and drives ordinary cars because they choose to live that way..they spend their money helping other people instead of collecting material things. You are in denial in thinking that everyone is like you.

You completely missed what I was implying as the denial. Probably because I wasn't being very clear.

The denial is in regards to a way of thinking...There is no RIGHT or WRONG. You can't say that these people are doing wrong just because you feel that they should be acting in a different way. You can't involve morality here.

I think it's dumb for us to sit here and talk about other people we know or how other people would act.

Let's be honest about our OWN actions here...How many of you would give up an opportunity to make a potential million plus dollars so that other people can enjoy that money instead?...

[Manic!]

Speak for yourself, but don't make false statements to justify your way of thinking. I know many people who are not wealthy, yet dedicate their lives to helping others. Likewise, I have met quite a few multi-millionaires that live in modest houses and drives ordinary cars because they choose to live that way..they spend their money helping other people instead of collecting material things. You are in denial in thinking that everyone is like you.

And how did they make millions?

[Lomac]

Not exactly.
A bunch of those Mainlanders buying these 2-5+ Mil Houses are on welfare. It's almost common knowledge for most Asian circles. It's fucking disgusting, and the government does nothing about it.

Worst case scenario? Wifey moves here into the new house. Kids get into school. Husband divorces her.

Wife gets Welfare cheques, and child support from the Husband.

But are these people the rule or the exception?

I corrected your post.

The Conservatives are changing the immigration system cause it is broken. Canada has been receiving ~80% return on each new immigrant since the laws were loosen a couple decades ago cause the quality of immigrant has decreased. Ie we are losing money on each new immigrant by subsidizing services for them as they do not earn enough to pay for 100% of their cost to society - nevermind add to society like you're wrongly assuming.

For those thinking I'm being racist, don' bite my head off unless you understand my argument. We used to have a very tight immigrant policy that rewarded immigrants with skills, that was loosened a few decades ago letting virtually anyone in regardless if they offered any benefit to Canadian society. There's TONS of studies on this, I welcome you to read them.

Don't get me wrong, I was merely making a generic blanket statement about Canada's need for immigrants, not commenting on the actual people coming in. I know there are issues on hand with the current immigration rules and people are slipping through that shouldn't be.


There's lots of land, that myth gets debunked over and over. Look around at the construction, tons of density going up and Surrey will eclipse Vancouver in size cause there's tons of room to expand.

Yes and no. I'll talk about Langley because I'm familiar with it. For the longest time, no structure was allowed to exceed four stories, which seriously limited the amount of units being build on a particular plot of land. As well, a large chunk of Langley is protected by the ALR. In fact, a very much needed overpass on Mufford Cres/64th Ave was delayed for months because the ALR deemed it took too much protected land in order to build it. Keep in mind that trains literally run directly through the middle of Langley City almost every 30 minutes, with only one overpass that was built in an awkward location to alleviate the congestion that builds up when this happens. If the ALR was fighting this hard to not give up land for an issue that literally brings traffic to a standstill and creates massive backlogs, imagine how hard they've been fighting to prevent plots of farm land from being rezoned into residential areas.

In fact, High Point Estates, Langley's latest multi-million dollar housing community on 200th St/0-8th Ave was only approved after it was turned into an equestrian/housing development. Half the homes have room enough to board horses, with a giant piece of land given as a stable and riding arena. And even that took years to be approved.

I actually know one of the members on the ALR board and talked to him about this a couple years back. His stance, which is shared by the others, is that we need to protect as much farm land as possible because otherwise our ability to support our communities with fresh produce will be severely hampered. Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what it amounted to.

I currently live on the cusp of the ALR in South Langley and even though I know various neighbours who own farm land that is basically now no good for growing anything but Christmas trees or for green houses, they're unable to take their relatively unusable land and restructure it for anything else. And forget about building another house on your land to rent out because that's forbidden by the ALR.

Yes, North Langley (Walnut Grove) is growing by the minute, but a large chunk of that land was rezoned industrial land and was not protected by the ALR.

I can't speak about the rest of the Lower Mainland, but at least in Langley it's hard to expand housing developments for newcomers.

[epicbeardman]

haha West Van. The last bastion of hope for rich white people in Vancouver, alas, that too is gone. I bet they're shitting bricks...

[observer]

Why can't we all get along and see the world as one. People are people. It's a small world and there are opportunities everywhere. Let's face it, globalization is here to stay.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Let's hope WW3 beings and wipe 80% of all humans. That way we all can start over again.

[SkinnyPupp]

Why can't we all get along and see the world as one. People are people. It's a small world and there are opportunities everywhere. Let's face it, globalization is here to stay.

x1000

[drunkrussian]

haha West Van. The last bastion of hope for rich white people in Vancouver, alas, that too is gone. I bet they're shitting bricks...

they still have their north van. for now.
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[Death2Theft]

Just curious whats wrong with the land where it can only grow christmas trees? They dont believe in crop rotation?
But are these people the rule or the exception?



Don't get me wrong, I was merely making a generic blanket statement about Canada's need for immigrants, not commenting on the actual people coming in. I know there are issues on hand with the current immigration rules and people are slipping through that shouldn't be.




Yes and no. I'll talk about Langley because I'm familiar with it. For the longest time, no structure was allowed to exceed four stories, which seriously limited the amount of units being build on a particular plot of land. As well, a large chunk of Langley is protected by the ALR. In fact, a very much needed overpass on Mufford Cres/64th Ave was delayed for months because the ALR deemed it took too much protected land in order to build it. Keep in mind that trains literally run directly through the middle of Langley City almost every 30 minutes, with only one overpass that was built in an awkward location to alleviate the congestion that builds up when this happens. If the ALR was fighting this hard to not give up land for an issue that literally brings traffic to a standstill and creates massive backlogs, imagine how hard they've been fighting to prevent plots of farm land from being rezoned into residential areas.

In fact, High Point Estates, Langley's latest multi-million dollar housing community on 200th St/0-8th Ave was only approved after it was turned into an equestrian/housing development. Half the homes have room enough to board horses, with a giant piece of land given as a stable and riding arena. And even that took years to be approved.

I actually know one of the members on the ALR board and talked to him about this a couple years back. His stance, which is shared by the others, is that we need to protect as much farm land as possible because otherwise our ability to support our communities with fresh produce will be severely hampered. Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically what it amounted to.

I currently live on the cusp of the ALR in South Langley and even though I know various neighbours who own farm land that is basically now no good for growing anything but Christmas trees or for green houses, they're unable to take their relatively unusable land and restructure it for anything else. And forget about building another house on your land to rent out because that's forbidden by the ALR.

Yes, North Langley (Walnut Grove) is growing by the minute, but a large chunk of that land was rezoned industrial land and was not protected by the ALR.

I can't speak about the rest of the Lower Mainland, but at least in Langley it's hard to expand housing developments for newcomers.

[Death2Theft]

The persians have that.
they still have their north van. for now.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Gridlock]

But are these people the rule or the exception?




Do you really want to see Langley become a sea of ugly little box homes? That's what will happen. Acres upon acres of beige vinyl siding stacked in neat little rows for as far as the eye can see.

Imagine talking to your realtor and saying, what I'm really looking for is a 3bed/2 bath 2000sq.ft in bland boring beige colors built 4 feet away from my neighbor.

"OK, I have 250 to show you..."

Langley is already turning into that right now. The cool thing about that area is you can still have horse farms and acreage.

I'm not against development, but Langley to me now has already lost its uniqueness and is well on its way to being surrey 2.0.

[taylor192]

Do you really want to see Langley become a sea of ugly little box homes? That's what will happen. Acres upon acres of beige vinyl siding stacked in neat little rows for as far as the eye can see.

Imagine talking to your realtor and saying, what I'm really looking for is a 3bed/2 bath 2000sq.ft in bland boring beige colors built 4 feet away from my neighbor.

"OK, I have 250 to show you..."

I owned one of those boring beige homes in Ottawa, and worse the construction quality is terrible.

Glad I got rid of it, and judging my my old neighbourhood I only missed out on $10K as prices have flatlined since I sold.

[Lomac]

Do you really want to see Langley become a sea of ugly little box homes? That's what will happen. Acres upon acres of beige vinyl siding stacked in neat little rows for as far as the eye can see.

Imagine talking to your realtor and saying, what I'm really looking for is a 3bed/2 bath 2000sq.ft in bland boring beige colors built 4 feet away from my neighbor.

"OK, I have 250 to show you..."

Langley is already turning into that right now. The cool thing about that area is you can still have horse farms and acreage.

I'm not against development, but Langley to me now has already lost its uniqueness and is well on its way to being surrey 2.0.

You're talking about 204 by Walnut Grove and Hwy1, right? Yeah, that's turning into a pretty ugly little neighbourhood. That area is going to become badly congested real quickly. Hillcrest is mainly Surrey, which spilled slightly into Langley. I do hate rowhomes with a passion. If I wanted to live that close to my neighbour, I'd choose to buy a townhouse instead of a detached home where I can literally walk down the block by walking on the roof of each house. To be fair, though, those plots of land were already residential. It's just that each plot had multiple acres of land for one house. Much easier to redevelop that land for multiple houses than turn farm land into one.

And yeah, I live in a very nice neighbourhood. Even though it was a housing development back in the super early 80's, each house by me has at least 1/2 acre of land with basically a mini-forest on the property. I'm a little sad that the 4 story restriction was lifted, though. I love driving to work while going down the 208th hill and being able to see for miles. In ten years time, that view is going to look very different.

Langley still has it's charm, though. You just have to avoid anything North of 64th Ave.

[Presto]

The congestion in Langley is brutal, especially on 200 street from 72nd down to the ByPass. I can see traffic getting worse with each new development that pops up.

[Meowjin]

I ignore these problems until I have a career. so for now, im ignorant and choose to fuck it because I have no control over it.

[Gridlock]

You're talking about 204 by Walnut Grove and Hwy1, right? Yeah, that's turning into a pretty ugly little neighbourhood. That area is going to become badly congested real quickly. Hillcrest is mainly Surrey, which spilled slightly into Langley. I do hate rowhomes with a passion. If I wanted to live that close to my neighbour, I'd choose to buy a townhouse instead of a detached home where I can literally walk down the block by walking on the roof of each house. To be fair, though, those plots of land were already residential. It's just that each plot had multiple acres of land for one house. Much easier to redevelop that land for multiple houses than turn farm land into one.

And yeah, I live in a very nice neighbourhood. Even though it was a housing development back in the super early 80's, each house by me has at least 1/2 acre of land with basically a mini-forest on the property. I'm a little sad that the 4 story restriction was lifted, though. I love driving to work while going down the 208th hill and being able to see for miles. In ten years time, that view is going to look very different.

Langley still has it's charm, though. You just have to avoid anything North of 64th Ave.

That's what i was referring to. Our rental is to the surrey side of that. At least with ours, you get to drive through a few minutes of fields and horses before you get back into townhouse hell. Those fields and horses are on a borrowed clock though, as everytime I go, there are another 10 beige boxes plotted out.

And yes Taylor, they are built to the minimum standards. It happens every time there is a larger building boom. I was working on a house in an established neighborhood from the 80's, and the construction of the place was the shits. Exterior wall was 2x4 construction, not even standard 16" oc. There is only so much you can do to insulate a home that has a 3 1/2" wall cavity.

I wouldn't want to be a long-term Langley resident and see it turn into a sea of poorly built, poorly designed houses causing traffic chaos and then top it off with an icing of big box stores lined up to the highway.

But a little bit, that ship has sailed.

[Manic!]

Let's hope WW3 beings and wipe 80% of all humans. That way we all can start over again.

What makes you think that you will be in the lucky 20%?

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ I don't plan being the lucky 20% but think about it for a sec.

The earth is running out of food, usable water, oil....... maybe within the next 40years or so. Sure we can other alternatives for oil but what about usable water? There are only like 2% of total usable water on this planet and we are all polluting it. Is going to run out and then what?

We might not notice it here in Canada but in a lot of the Third World country shortage of food and water is already at a very critical level. Is only a matter of time before it hits us.......

[Death2Theft]

They should call you doctor eugenics.
^^ I don't plan being the lucky 20% but think about it for a sec.

The earth is running out of food, usable water, oil....... maybe within the next 40years or so. Sure we can other alternatives for oil but what about usable water? There are only like 2% of total usable water on this planet and we are all polluting it. Is going to run out and then what?

We might not notice it here in Canada but in a lot of the Third World country shortage of food and water is already at a very critical level. Is only a matter of time before it hits us.......

[Manic!]

^^ I don't plan being the lucky 20% but think about it for a sec.

The earth is running out of food, usable water, oil....... maybe within the next 40years or so. Sure we can other alternatives for oil but what about usable water? There are only like 2% of total usable water on this planet and we are all polluting it. Is going to run out and then what?

We might not notice it here in Canada but in a lot of the Third World country shortage of food and water is already at a very critical level. Is only a matter of time before it hits us.......

We have way more than enough fresh water in Canada.

Also
Desalinisation - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalinisation)

[Gridlock]

Soylent Green!

Now made with 100% real people.

[parm104]

That's what i was referring to. Our rental is to the surrey side of that. At least with ours, you get to drive through a few minutes of fields and horses before you get back into townhouse hell. Those fields and horses are on a borrowed clock though, as everytime I go, there are another 10 beige boxes plotted out.

And yes Taylor, they are built to the minimum standards. It happens every time there is a larger building boom. I was working on a house in an established neighborhood from the 80's, and the construction of the place was the shits. Exterior wall was 2x4 construction, not even standard 16" oc. There is only so much you can do to insulate a home that has a 3 1/2" wall cavity.

I wouldn't want to be a long-term Langley resident and see it turn into a sea of poorly built, poorly designed houses causing traffic chaos and then top it off with an icing of big box stores lined up to the highway.

But a little bit, that ship has sailed.

I am little confused regarding the issue of single-family homes being packed into an area, that was once a natural, spacious neighbourhood. I, personally detest neighbourhoods that are backed with cars on the streets and have rental properties left right and centre creating a mass influx of people in one cramped area...But I must ask, why does this happen?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it because building houses this way, attracts more buyers, because these houses are more affordable than those in say a more "spacious" neighbourhood?

Personally, I have 17 acres on non-ALR land in the Clayton Heights area. Acquired it just last year actually. It's in NCP-2 and there are proposals being done up as we speak. This purchase was made for several reasons but mainly because it's going to be a great source of income eventually and because I can freely build a house and buffer myself from any sort of town house or single-family home neighbourhood.

But back to my main point, from what I can see, we are complaining about two things that conflict with each other. I may be wrong though.

1) We're upset because housing is unaffordable and to get a decent house, we have to pay a lot more than say someone in a different part of the country. Some of us believe that this is partially a result of foreigners coming here and investing their money into expensive properties, creating a demand for those high-priced properties, and in return creating a motivation for people to drive up the prices of their properties...

2) We are complaining because there is too much development going on and these houses that developers are building are cheaply made and packed into a small area. But at the same time, these houses are cheaper than the rest because of these above reasons...

So what is it that we want? Cheap housing or houses that are surrounded with scenery and fields and parks? Again, I'm not arguing with anyone's points here regarding congestion and influx of commercial/town house real estate...just trying to figure out what exactly it is that people are looking for here...

[taylor192]

I am little confused regarding the issue of single-family homes being packed into an area, that was once a natural, spacious neighbourhood. I, personally detest neighbourhoods that are backed with cars on the streets and have rental properties left right and centre creating a mass influx of people in one cramped area...But I must ask, why does this happen?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it because building houses this way, attracts more buyers, because these houses are more affordable than those in say a more "spacious" neighbourhood?
Its easier and cheaper to provide services in higher density.

If Vancouver was a spacious sprawling suburb, the cost to provide services with be astronomical. I grew up in the country with 1000 acres to play, yet had nowhere near the services offered where I live now for essentially the same amount of property tax.

[Gridlock]

I am little confused regarding the issue of single-family homes being packed into an area, that was once a natural, spacious neighbourhood. I, personally detest neighbourhoods that are backed with cars on the streets and have rental properties left right and centre creating a mass influx of people in one cramped area...But I must ask, why does this happen?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it because building houses this way, attracts more buyers, because these houses are more affordable than those in say a more "spacious" neighbourhood?

Personally, I have 17 acres on non-ALR land in the Clayton Heights area. Acquired it just last year actually. It's in NCP-2 and there are proposals being done up as we speak. This purchase was made for several reasons but mainly because it's going to be a great source of income eventually and because I can freely build a house and buffer myself from any sort of town house or single-family home neighbourhood.

But back to my main point, from what I can see, we are complaining about two things that conflict with each other. I may be wrong though.

1) We're upset because housing is unaffordable and to get a decent house, we have to pay a lot more than say someone in a different part of the country. Some of us believe that this is partially a result of foreigners coming here and investing their money into expensive properties, creating a demand for those high-priced properties, and in return creating a motivation for people to drive up the prices of their properties...

2) We are complaining because there is too much development going on and these houses that developers are building are cheaply made and packed into a small area. But at the same time, these houses are cheaper than the rest because of these above reasons...

So what is it that we want? Cheap housing or houses that are surrounded with scenery and fields and parks? Again, I'm not arguing with anyone's points here regarding congestion and influx of commercial/town house real estate...just trying to figure out what exactly it is that people are looking for here...

That is an excellent point, and an excellent post.

First, I don't think there is a "nice" answer.

Higher real estate prices drive development of condos, townhouses and cheaper, more densely packed homes. To recoup my investment, I need to see this many homes in this area selling for this much.

But let's look at what happens. I'm going to use that crowding of houses by the highway in Langley as an example. Fast forward 30 years.

We now have houses that are cheaply built, next to a highway. Property values are ALWAYS going to reflect those 2 points. People aren't going to maintain that housing stock. The people with money are going to buy nicer homes away from the highway. So that neighborhood is destined to be "average". That starts the potential for the "surrey-fication" of the area where you start to get higher rates of petty crime and businesses that cater to average income.

You now need to build more roads and bridges to handle the traffic. You have congestion.

I honestly don't know what the answer is. If you are buying a house in the GVRD, chances are, you are buying in a sub-divided location that at one point was subject to this same conversation. Some houses in the outer areas were privately built on land, not a "lot".

I find myself kind of stuck on your very good point. I mean, I totally agree. I guess I just look at developments such as that, and a few others in the Langley area and say, "we're designing on money here, not style" and I just think its a shame.

[dachinesedude]

dun dun dun dun, dun dun, we gettin' wenzhou money