[yameen]

hey guys, i'm just wondering if anyone has dealt with the new smart meter changes. we refused it because it seems like there's still an ongoing debate about privacy issues and the worker said eventually it'll get changed and he'll come back. he sounded pissed which i have no idea why because he's getting paid anyway.

any thoughts?

[LP700-4]

BC Hydro just came and changed em while we weren't home, left a brochure on the door.

Sneaky bastards...

[adambomb]

Guy came by my place the other day to change my meter and I asked if he needed a hand. :wgaf:

At the end of the day, is all the smart meter fuss worth it? No matter what, we are going to want power for all our electronic gadgets, enterainment systems and to heat our homes. Whatever your beef is whether it be privacy, new charges or the electromagnetic fields it may generate :lol. No one is ever going to say "Fine, I'll just live without electricity." There are plenty of other parts of the world who wish they could have the access to electricity that we have. The worker was right, it will eventually get changed to a smart meter and you'll have to deal with it unless you plan to live without electricity. IMO anybody causing a fuss is someone who doesn't like change.


I chalk up the whole smart meter fiasco as to another "first world problem" :argue: :rolleyes:

[Glove]

they own the meters dont they?

what do the new smart readers do?

[Death2Theft]

I printed out a form and ziplocked it beside the meter that I didn't want to get it changed.
This is more about constitutional rights if you "need" power just like you "need" water, well then you may as well live without any rights. But hey your not a criminal and you dont mind if people know what your doing inside the privacy of your own home right? You've got nothing to hide!
If people even budge a inch with this the results arn't going to be pretty in the long run, these are the rights (as little as they seem now) that people of past generations have paid in blood in order for you to have them.

[TheNewGirl]

My Apartment building went ahead and did it.

The issue is they can tell what's going on in your house (such as if you're home, if you're watching TV, if you're sleeping) by having real time, minute by minute data on your power usage.

[StylinRed]

what? i thought all it did was tell Hydro automatically when & how much power we used rather than having to have Hydro send a guy once every so often to write down the numbers on the gauges ?

[JSS]

so what if they can tell you're watching tv, cooking or sleeping?

if you've got nothing illegal to hide whats the big deal?

shaw cable knows what you're watching and can go into your digital cable pvr box to access anything on there they want... OMG they know you're a closet homo and watch desperate house wives!! alert the media!!

telus knows when and how often you use your phone and who you call. big deal.

its like people are fucking bored and have no lives and just want to complain about something, its the same dumb shits that complain about every other stupid little thing. i dont know about any of you but ive got work, school, bills an annoying family and my other own shit to worry about, not some stupid smart meter.

this is being blown WAY out of proportion, IMO, the only people who have a right to complain are the meter readers who are now gonna be out of a job.

if you dont want to be on bc hydro's grid, buy a generator and supply your own power, nobodys stopping you.

[Gridlock]

They switched them at our building in Burnaby. I now have no idea how to read them, but it doesn't really matter...i sometimes look at the bank of them to see who cranks through more power than I do ;)

The only thing I cared about, is they didn't need me to be present to do it.

The problem with them, is once they are all in place, it will be nice and easy to have different rates at different times of day. Plus the privacy thing. But different rates at different times is just a different way to increase rates as opposed to all across the board rate hikes.

[freakshow]

StylinRed is right, it just transmits the read data at given intervals instead of requiring a person to manually read it. It should actually be *more* accurate.

Since it transmits probably multiple times a day, if someone wanted to take all the data and build a timeline, they could theoretically tell when you're probably home because of increased electricity usage.

[Manic!]

Have had 35 units changed 2 more to go. Only one of my tenants had a problem. His bill was way higher than usual. BC hydro corrected his bill.

[Soundy]

My Apartment building went ahead and did it.

The issue is they can tell what's going on in your house (such as if you're home, if you're watching TV, if you're sleeping) by having real time, minute by minute data on your power usage.

so what if they can tell you're watching tv, cooking or sleeping?
They can't. They can tell how much power you're using, not what is using it... you could do this before by watching the little spinning dial on the meter. There's no way for anyone to know whether you're cooking a meal or drying your clothes (oven and dryer both use about the same current). They'll get a better idea by checking your dryer vent or stove vent, something people can already do regardless of what kind of meter you have.

if you dont want to be on bc hydro's grid, buy a generator and supply your own power, nobodys stopping you.
People should be glad Hydro isn't dropping the ultimatum: no smart meter, no power.

The problem with them, is once they are all in place, it will be nice and easy to have different rates at different times of day.
Complainers like to bring that up, saying that means they'll get charged more at peak periods... I look at it as potentially being able to pay less off-peak. My dishwasher, clothes washer, and dryer all allow me to schedule or delay their start times, so I could easily program them to run after I go to bed, and hopefully save a bundle on some of the more energy-hungry appliances.

Plus the privacy thing.
There is no "privacy thing" except under the tinfoil hats.

Since it transmits probably multiple times a day, if someone wanted to take all the data and build a timeline, they could theoretically tell when you're probably home because of increased electricity usage.
They could do that just standing looking at the meter. Or sitting across the street in a white van watching your front door and seeing when your lights go on and off. The whole argument is a crock.

[Pooface55]

I have no idea why some people are so upset about these. The neat thing is that BCHydro will know exactly where the power outage is. No more calling and waiting on the phone after a power line goes down during a windstorm.

[Soundy]

I printed out a form and ziplocked it beside the meter that I didn't want to get it changed.
This is more about constitutional rights if you "need" power just like you "need" water, well then you may as well live without any rights. But hey your not a criminal and you dont mind if people know what your doing inside the privacy of your own home right? You've got nothing to hide!
If people even budge a inch with this the results arn't going to be pretty in the long run, these are the rights (as little as they seem now) that people of past generations have paid in blood in order for you to have them.

There's nothing in the Constitution that guarantees you electricity or water, so that blows the "Constitutional" argument out of the water right off the hop. If there were, they wouldn't be able to shut your power off for non-payment... just go ahead and don't pay your Hydro bill for a few months, see how that works out.

[Soundy]

I have no idea why some people are so upset about these. The neat thing is that BCHydro will know exactly where the power outage is. No more calling and waiting on the phone after a power line goes down during a windstorm.

Heck, your power could go out when you're not home, and they could detect it and fix it before you ever get home and realize it was out in the first place.

[MG1]

Only thing that pissed me off about the changeover was, I missed my favourite show that I was recording on PVR. God dang it!

Other than that, nothing has changed. Dick is still there and I don't glow in the dark more than usual.

[CP.AR]

I don't get this whole fiasco over it.
by default BC Hydro always had the ability to monitor your power usage. With the upgrade to smart meters it just makes it easier for them to collect the usage data by not having someone come in and read the meters (for some houses, this involved getting into say... a backyard)

So should I boycott Rogers for knowing exactly when I am calling or text messaging?

The idea is similar - they don't have a clue what you are DOING with your power, they just know that you are USING it.

[Soundy]

Only thing that pissed me off about the changeover was, I missed my favourite show that I was recording on PVR. God dang it!

Other than that, nothing has changed. Dick is still there and I don't glow in the dark more than usual.
They changed over our whole complex, apparently a couple months ago... I never even noticed. Didn't come home to flashing clocks or anything. Pretty slick.

[yot065]

are smart meters being installed in every house :ahwow:

[Manic!]

are smart meters being installed in every house :ahwow:

Yep.

[tiger_handheld]

Heck, your power could go out when you're not home, and they could detect it and fix it before you ever get home and realize it was out in the first place.

I would no my power went out because the microwave and stereo will blink 12:00 :troll:

[Firmware]

Lol who gives 2 fucks?

[SpuGen]

http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/6/2/6/1/tin-foil-hat.jpg

[StylinRed]

From what I understand after some brief googling is the real concern/complaint here

is people are saying this step of installing smart meters is the step before a "peak hours usage system" is initiated where we'll be charged premium rates @ like 4pm-8pm

and since these smart meters are already installed they'll have no problem in enabling such a system

that's why the opposition is trying to grasp onto reasons for these units not to be installed, be it health concerns or privacy concerns etc

[Soundy]

From what I understand after some brief googling is the real concern/complaint here

is people are saying this step of installing smart meters is the step before a "peak hours usage system" is initiated where we'll be charged premium rates @ like 4pm-8pm
And again I say, so what? Do all your heavy usage in off-peak hours. The alternative would be an overall rate hike. If it comes to the choice of having rates go up 5% 24/7, or 10% during peak times totaling maybe 40 hours a week... I'd rather have the option to pay the lower rate by simply adjusting my habits a bit.

that's why the opposition is trying to grasp onto reasons for these units not to be installed, be it health concerns or privacy concerns etc
Most of the pushback is people opposed to it just because they're opposed to everything. First they cite the billing issue; if that's shot down, it becomes the privacy issue; address that, and they drag out the health issue. Answer all of those, they start calling it "undemocratic" and talking about constitutional challenges.

And of course, doesn't matter what argument you want to come up with, you'll be able to find something on the internet to back you up... most of which comes with a free subscription to tinfoil hats.

[SupraTTturbo2jz]

can't blame those who are the ones complaining and fighting for our rights. Who else is gonna do it? not the people who say they don't give a shit. If you don't complain and fight for something, you're just going to give in and until its too late, be controlled and have to give whatever they want. I rather have a few people fighting against the issue and know the whole situation and have them tell us everything accurately in the end then just let em install meters at my house. I do accept the installment though if it does show more accurate numbers for our usage of electricity.

[Soundy]

What "rights" do you think you're fighting for here? BC Hydro is providing a service that you've CHOSEN to use, and they want to upgrade their equipment that's a part of that service. You have no rights to HAVE that service, and as such you have no rights to say how they choose to deliver it.

Don't like it... get rid of the service. Pretty simple. Nobody's forcing you to use their power.

[Supafly]

I don't grow weed; I don't care if they change it......:troll:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[SupraTTturbo2jz]

Privacy concerns derp. Even if someone isnt doing anything wrong, i rather have a world woth less spying if being able to know what we are doing is the case.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Dickson_Top]

Privacy concerns derp. Even if someone isnt doing anything wrong, i rather have a world woth less spying if being able to know what we are doing is the case.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)
So do you worry that your cellphone provider has a detailed list of who you call how often and for how long? That you're not supposed to send secure information over MSN or Text messages because they could be tapped? That someone could sit across the street from you with a camera and figure out what time you come and go? That your ISP knows what you download and how much?



Speaking realistically, are you on facebook or do you have a google account? If you do, you have a LOT less privacy using them then you EVER would by having a smart meter installed. At least with a smart meter you can save some money if they bring in time-based billing, rather than just making money for FB or GGL.

[Soundy]

Privacy concerns derp. Even if someone isnt doing anything wrong, i rather have a world woth less spying if being able to know what we are doing is the case.
And what exactly do you think they know you're doing? They can't get any more information from these things than they could by sitting outside your house.

[sonick]

They can't get any more information from these things than they could by sitting outside your house.

That would still be as much a breach in privacy as these smart meters.

I'm indifferent with them and have no qualms about the privacy issue, but that is a pretty weak argument.

[adambomb]

Abuse of our rights or not. You could always try living without electricity. :jiggy:

E:CartoonsEdison And His Electricity.flv - YouTube

[Hondaracer]

funny how two viet guys i grew up with post nothing but "ban smart meter" articles on facebook lol

[SkinnyPupp]

lol @ the idiots and conspiracy theorists who think there is some ulterior motive behind smart meters

L O L.

[Death2Theft]

Ever heard of data over power? Guess not.
Enjoy the radiation while governments around the world just up the "safe levels" of radiation.
They can't. They can tell how much power you're using, not what is using it... you could do this before by watching the little spinning dial on the meter. There's no way for anyone to know whether you're cooking a meal or drying your clothes (oven and dryer both use about the same current). They'll get a better idea by checking your dryer vent or stove vent, something people can already do regardless of what kind of meter you have.


People should be glad Hydro isn't dropping the ultimatum: no smart meter, no power.


Complainers like to bring that up, saying that means they'll get charged more at peak periods... I look at it as potentially being able to pay less off-peak. My dishwasher, clothes washer, and dryer all allow me to schedule or delay their start times, so I could easily program them to run after I go to bed, and hopefully save a bundle on some of the more energy-hungry appliances.


There is no "privacy thing" except under the tinfoil hats.


They could do that just standing looking at the meter. Or sitting across the street in a white van watching your front door and seeing when your lights go on and off. The whole argument is a crock.

[Death2Theft]

With the cost of the new meters good luck seeing anything in the way of savings on your end. Like they would ever pass savings over to the consumer, your more crazy than any conspiracy theorist.

Of course you idiots also believe in man made global warming so enjoy paying your carbon taxes.

[death_blossom]

hey guys, i'm just wondering if anyone has dealt with the new smart meter changes. we refused it because it seems like there's still an ongoing debate about privacy issues and the worker said eventually it'll get changed and he'll come back. he sounded pissed which i have no idea why because he's getting paid anyway.

any thoughts?

the worker was pissed cuz he was probably a contractor. BC Hydro is contracting out all the meter replacements. I bet these contractors get paid for every house they change up. so he probably didn't get paid for the time he spent at your house, that's why he was upset haha.

[syee]

What "rights" do you think you're fighting for here? BC Hydro is providing a service that you've CHOSEN to use, and they want to upgrade their equipment that's a part of that service. You have no rights to HAVE that service, and as such you have no rights to say how they choose to deliver it.

Don't like it... get rid of the service. Pretty simple. Nobody's forcing you to use their power.

Soundy hit the nail right on the head. It's their meter. They own it. They probably have more rights to change their own equipment than you do to refuse the install.

[Soundy]

That would still be as much a breach in privacy as these smart meters.
And again, what do you think they're going to find out about you?

[Soundy]

Ever heard of data over power? Guess not.
Yes. What does that have to do with this?

Enjoy the radiation while governments around the world just up the "safe levels" of radiation.
Do you own a cell phone? If so, just shut the fuck up.

The meters turn on for a few seconds at at time, a few times a day... transmit their info, and then turn off the radio. It's transmitting for a total of something like 2.4 seconds per day. At a fraction of the power of your cell phone. Your cell phone is radiating signal probably 24/7, sitting in your pocket next to your shrinking nads most of that time... and you're worried about this meter??

Bitch, please.

[SkinnyPupp]

the worker was pissed cuz he was probably a contractor. BC Hydro is contracting out all the meter replacements. I bet these contractors get paid for every house they change up. so he probably didn't get paid for the time he spent at your house, that's why he was upset haha.

Also he is probably annoyed by dealing with idiots who deny him from doing his job just because they are dumb. That would piss me off to no end.
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[Soundy]

Also he is probably annoyed by dealing with idiots who deny him from doing his job just because they are dumb. That would piss me off to no end.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Kinda like being a mod here? :megusta:

[SkinnyPupp]

Here's a good read and listen for those that want to know more

A Not-Very-Smart Debate on Smart Meters | Skeptoid (http://skeptoid.com/blog/2011/08/05/a-not-very-smart-debate-on-smart-meters/)
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[tiger_handheld]

anyone know when I can use the web to monitor my usage?

[RouRK]

Here's a good read and listen for those that want to know more

A Not-Very-Smart Debate on Smart Meters | Skeptoid (http://skeptoid.com/blog/2011/08/05/a-not-very-smart-debate-on-smart-meters/)
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

your comments seem like they are "dumb"

throw the health issues out the window.. let that be the fight for the lawers in court.. cause thats how it needs to be fought.

have none of you seen the news about BC Hydro lately?

Bc Hydro is a crown corp that is POORLy ran.. they are a company that generates electricity and sells it to you... they make the prices.. you don't have a choice but to buy from them... they want to hire 300+ employees they don't need... your rates go up.. the British Columbia Utilities Commission is supposed to assess what and why they are raising the rates.. well they have dropped the ball many times.. look at what the clark government has done with thehydro rate hike... said get your shit together and you can cut your rate hike almost in half to 16 percent down from 30. The smart meter is a start to "peak hour billing".. meaning you use power in certain times and they charge you a LOT More.

take a company like Fortis.. they give you pricing at almost open market pricing... but charge you a little for delivery of gas.. so if gas prices fall then your cost of gas falls. as it has 2 times in the last quarter of 2011.
Gas has been deregulated.. and so should hydro.

i want competetive prices on my utilities and i don't want to be set up for a ass raping on my hydro bill in the future.. cause thats what will happen.
i have had a smart meter for 2.5 years... when i upgraded the service to my house.

the smart meters are all about peak hour billing.

[Lomac]

I'm confused at all the people failing those who have no qualms with the smart meter. Exactly what is wrong with these being installed?

Health? My laptop is currently showing half a dozen wireless networks that it's able to pick up on an N connection, and my neighbourhood has houses built on lots that are at minimum half an acre big. And I'm sure my own neighbours can detect my own wireless network. That's far more radio waves bombarding me all day than this meter will ever give me. And don't even get me started on cellphones.

Privacy? If anything, this is less intrusive than the current analog units. A meter reader can walk to the edge of your property, connect to your meter for thirty seconds, and leave. You won't have to worry about him walking through your garden, or going through your backyard unannounced.

Billing during peak hours? Meh. I already run my dishwasher and laundry during the evening/overnight anyway. Stands to reason that the majority of people can do the same as well. Or... don't use your dishwasher and spend ten minutes washing dishes the old fashion way in your sink. Or hang dry your clothes overnight. And don't use the single parent argument. Evening and night is usually when you all get your stuff done after your kid has gone to bed anyway.



As for BC Hydro being run as a company... that argument has nothing to do with smart meters. Just like virtually every other company out there, it certainly has a lot of excess fat it can trim. I have no qualms with that. Even my friend who works for them admits it. However, as I said, that has nothing to do with getting rid of the old, antiquated analog spinners.

[Nightwalker]

Just got my notice today that they'll be coming to change mine soon. Honestly looking forward to the cool new Smart Meter.

Plus, they'll never come into my back yard to check the meter ever again. Better privacy imho.

[zulutango]

I don't know about you folks but I signed some sort of agreement with Hydro back in the late 1980's before they turned the power on. probably says something in that agreement that we all agreed to, to allow this. I don't buy that it will save millions of dollars but I believe that it will allow them the ability to charge more at peak use times. By doing so they hope the higher chagre will get us to spread the useage over a longer time period and avoid the massive demand periods.

It's like water use. Where I live we have summer watering restrictions that prohibit use. The resevoir has all kinds of water so there is no shortage. The problem is that the pipes and pumping systems cannot meet the extra demand for relatively short periods of time. They would have to spend hundreds of millions of $ to have enough pipes and pumps to cover the extra demand. Similar situation thing with hydro.

[Soundy]

^Hey, what are you doing outside of Police Forum?? Back in your cage!

[Coren]

This may be off topic, but has anyone noticed they still install the analog meters on brand new houses in the areas where the smart meters aren't installed yet?

IMO, that is a waste of money

[TRDood]

Natural gas delivery is regulated. The commodity itself is not.

your comments seem like they are "dumb"

throw the health issues out the window.. let that be the fight for the lawers in court.. cause thats how it needs to be fought.

have none of you seen the news about BC Hydro lately?

Bc Hydro is a crown corp that is POORLy ran.. they are a company that generates electricity and sells it to you... they make the prices.. you don't have a choice but to buy from them... they want to hire 300+ employees they don't need... your rates go up.. the British Columbia Utilities Commission is supposed to assess what and why they are raising the rates.. well they have dropped the ball many times.. look at what the clark government has done with thehydro rate hike... said get your shit together and you can cut your rate hike almost in half to 16 percent down from 30. The smart meter is a start to "peak hour billing".. meaning you use power in certain times and they charge you a LOT More.

take a company like Fortis.. they give you pricing at almost open market pricing... but charge you a little for delivery of gas.. so if gas prices fall then your cost of gas falls. as it has 2 times in the last quarter of 2011.
Gas has been deregulated.. and so should hydro.

i want competetive prices on my utilities and i don't want to be set up for a ass raping on my hydro bill in the future.. cause thats what will happen.
i have had a smart meter for 2.5 years... when i upgraded the service to my house.

the smart meters are all about peak hour billing.
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[StylinRed]

christy crunch wants to sell our natural gas to china and basically said yesterday that rates are going to have to rise for us to accommodate selling to asia :crazy2:

[Gridlock]

christy crunch wants to sell our natural gas to china and basically said yesterday that rates are going to have to rise for us to accommodate selling to asia :crazy2:

I'm not a huge fan of the NDP, but huge kudos go to whomever ok'd that ad to go on tv.

[RouRK]

.

Billing during peak hours? Meh. I already run my dishwasher and laundry during the evening/overnight anyway. Stands to reason that the majority of people can do the same as well. Or... don't use your dishwasher and spend ten minutes washing dishes the old fashion way in your sink. Or hang dry your clothes overnight. And don't use the single parent argument. Evening and night is usually when you all get your stuff done after your kid has gone to bed anyway.




that's what i don't get... to you it is OK to be billed more..
i installed a Electric on demand water heater.. i have a family.. i need to use electricity at the peak hours... it is NOT ok for the poorly run company to bill me more.
as the cost of everything goes up and the wages stay the same, how is that fair... i don't get a 16 - 30 % raise over 3 years. The people that work for hydro are over paid and under worked.. if the smart meter wasn't made a big deal of then we would have peak hour billing a lot sooner.. and your bill would be significantly higher. they want all this money for infrastructure..
read this and tell me your still OK with it.. B.C. Hydro deferring billions in debt, watchdog says (http://www.timescolonist.com/business/Hydro+deferring+billions+debt+watchdog+says/5619637/story.html)

Remember this is a company losing money on something that they MAKE and already have their infrastructure in place... how is this possible.

[Gridlock]

Well, the smart meters have a price tag of $1 billion. There is a reason right there to dislike this program. How much do you need to increase rates, or decrease costs to pay for that?

[StylinRed]

holy shit i wasnt aware of that astronomical fee behind the smart meters..... jesus

Im against them now too but too little too late i suppose

[zulutango]

^Hey, what are you doing outside of Police Forum?? Back in your cage!


Damn....caught again!!! :badpokerface:

[Matlock]

<sarcasm>Great idea. Let's use less electricity so that we can have some extra to sell to the Americans. </sarcasm>

If I were a criminal, it would be very valuable to have some sort of way to read other people's smart meters. Just look at the neighborhood's information for a month and figure out when people are home or away, then go on a robbing spree.

Seems like a cash grab to me. BC Hydro obviously wants more money as of late. I am an electrician and we usually set up the privately owned poles + electrical service (mast/meterbase/etc.) for all of these houses... but in West Van, BC Hydro has some sort of new code where they have to do it as of now. They must be hungry for more money.

[Soundy]

<sarcasm>Great idea. Let's use less electricity so that we can have some extra to sell to the Americans. </sarcasm>
That's more money to Hydro that DOESN'T have to come out of your pocket...

If I were a criminal, it would be very valuable to have some sort of way to read other people's smart meters. Just look at the neighborhood's information for a month and figure out when people are home or away, then go on a robbing spree.
You can do that with existing meters. Just walk up to them and look at the dial.

Let me google that for you (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+read+an+electric+meter)

You could also sit outside a block of houses for a few days and get plenty of info about people's comings and goings... probably lot more info that you'd get from simply reading their meters.

[Matlock]

With the old meters we are being charged by kilowatt hours (1000 watts being used for one hour) being read by a meter reader once a month. With the new smart meters we are being charged by the kWh data constantly being sent to BC Hydro, plus we get charged more during peak hours. More ways to get nickled and dimed to death.

That's more money to Hydro that DOESN'T have to come out of your pocket...


That doesn't mean they couldn't end up charging us more. In fact, wouldn't it be more of a reason for them to increase prices for us Canadians, if they could also just sell to Americans? Supply vs demand


You can do that with existing meters. Just walk up to them and look at the dial.


Only if you have one person looking at each meter 24/hours a day, marking down kWh in their notepad every hour and then reporting to whoever the brain of the operation would be. Not to mention they would look suspicious.

Now with smart meters, if you were actually able to tap into the information, you wouldn't need all of those people.

-and I know how to read an electric meter, we learn that in school in first year.

[Graeme S]

that's what i don't get... to you it is OK to be billed more..

So there's a little convenience store thingie in the lobby of my building DT. Guy sells coke both cold and warm. I usually buy the warm one just 'cause I don't drink it right away and I pop it in the fridge. Coworker comes with me one day and gets a cold one.

His is about 15c more than mine.

He says "How come you're charging me more 'cause it's cold?"

Guy doesn't miss a beat. He says "How come 7-11 doesn't charge you less if you buy a 2L that's warm?"

[Soundy]

With the old meters we are being charged by kilowatt hours (1000 watts being used for one hour) being read by a meter reader once a month. With the new smart meters we are being charged by the kWh data constantly being sent to BC Hydro,
Which still adds up to the same amount at the end of the month, which is when they bill you.

plus we get charged more during peak hours.
No, you don't. You need to stop reading the bullshit you find on the 'net. Whether they plan to implement peak rate times in the future or not, THEY ARE NOT USING THEM NOW.

Only if you have one person looking at each meter 24/hours a day, marking down kWh in their notepad every hour and then reporting to whoever the brain of the operation would be. Not to mention they would look suspicious.
You're right. If someone really wanted to case your house, they'd do it sitting down the street with binoculars. They'd get far more info that way than they ever would reading your electric usage.

Now with smart meters, if you were actually able to tap into the information, you wouldn't need all of those people.
"If."

And you're assuming every two-bit hood is CIA trained, or something. The people who would go to all this trouble, are not the type of people who just want to bust in your door and steal your TV. I think you've been watching too many movies, expecting James Bond to come through your door looking for the stolen plans to the secret military satellite.

[Matlock]

No, you don't. You need to stop reading the bullshit you find on the 'net. Whether they plan to implement peak rate times in the future or not, THEY ARE NOT USING THEM NOW.


I know they aren't charging you more per hour as of yet. But, if you have went to the BC Hydro smart meter display during the 2010 Olympics, you would have seen that it clearly is in the plan to charge more during peak hours. (They say you will save money during low hours, but that's probably just because peak hours will cost more) It is in the plan, it's not bullshit.

In their display they had various "smart" appliances which tell you when peak hours are and you could set up a timer for the clothes washer or drying to turn on at a certain hour. More cash grab for "smart" appliances.

[Soundy]

In their display they had various "smart" appliances which tell you when peak hours are and you could set up a timer for the clothes washer or drying to turn on at a certain hour. More cash grab for "smart" appliances.
Most people already have "smart" appliances... they're controlled by a brain... attached to the fingers that push their buttons.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to everyone... some people prefer to just let their imaginations run wild rather than actually using their brains

[Gridlock]

Whether they are charging more at different hours or not right now, I have ZERO doubt in my mind that its coming and its happening.

Perfect storm: Bunch of politicos on the global warming bandwagon, new tech that allows it, $1 billion price tag to cover.

I don't know if I necessarily think its "horrible" as it would help a lot with load balancing on the grid. Rates are going to go up regardless, so at least you'd have some way to navigate a lower bill. On the flip side, I think a lot of people are stuck with the energy pattern they use...you can't just superheat your home at 2 am and hope it keeps for the day. Using the dryer at 2 am in the morning is one thing, but the energy usage on a dishwasher not set to dry and a washing machine is not 'that' large. Its the heat creating appliances that use massive electricity.

[Anjew]

if you've got nothing illegal to hide whats the big deal?


i hear this thrown around all the time. in fact i hear this get thrown around EVERY TIME our freedoms are about to get scaled back.

[Anjew]

imo i think the smart meters are a step forward, water imo needs to be regulated even more (no charge but investigations made on houses large consumptions). i know and see tons of people wasting water its so infuriating..

one example would be one of my neighbors would have a external faucet leaking in the side of the house and would not fix it for MONTHS...... another would be my mom not telling me about a broken trip lever in the toilet tank which didnt allow a water tight seal around the flush valve. it must have leaked for weeks before she told me.

basic calculation of water waste would yield terrifying numbers.... =(

[Matlock]

Firstly, Soundy. I enjoy talking to you and reading your posts, because you a very good and entertaining troll.

There are also people with smart appliances that use their brains to control their hands to wash clothes in a sink. Believe it or not this uses no electrical energy. :-)

imo i think the smart meters are a step forward, water imo needs to be regulated even more (no charge but investigations made on houses large consumptions). i know and see tons of people wasting water its so infuriating..

one example would be one of my neighbors would have a external faucet leaking in the side of the house and would not fix it for MONTHS...... another would be my mom not telling me about a broken trip lever in the toilet tank which didnt allow a water tight seal around the flush valve. it must have leaked for weeks before she told me.

basic calculation of water waste would yield terrifying numbers.... =(

If you really want to get angry about water, take a look at these commercial refrigeration units where clean water pours straight through, conducting heat and straight into the drain. 24/7!! Now, that's a waste of water!

[kouki_monster]

I actually don't care if they want to change it..

BUT I was fucking pissed about the fact that they went to the back of my house without telling me, and changed it WHICH caused a minute or so power outage..

Couldn't they have given a little warning? Lost a bit of progress on my essay because of that asshole. He also quickly ran to his car without saying a word when I wanted to speak with him (I heard him walk to my doorstep to put the tag on my doorknob).

Wanted to phone and complain but was too behind on homework at the time.

Anyone else have similar experience?

[Soundy]

Firstly, Soundy. I enjoy talking to you and reading your posts, because you a very good and entertaining troll.
I wasn't aware that the definition of "trolling" now included calling out idiots spewing mindless drivel.

If you really want to get angry about water, take a look at these commercial refrigeration units where clean water pours straight through, conducting heat and straight into the drain. 24/7!! Now, that's a waste of water!
That water is condensation, out of the air...

[Death2Theft]

Benjamin Franklin (sometimes Thomas Jefferson) is often quoted as saying:
Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." -- KEVIN CRAIG - "Liberty Under God" Beginning in Missouri's 7th Congressional District (http://kevincraig.us/tempsec.htm)
i hear this thrown around all the time. in fact i hear this get thrown around EVERY TIME our freedoms are about to get scaled back.

[Graeme S]

Benjamin Franklin (sometimes Thomas Jefferson) is often quoted as saying:
Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither." -- KEVIN CRAIG - "Liberty Under God" Beginning in Missouri's 7th Congressional District (http://kevincraig.us/tempsec.htm)
Then delete facebook.

[Nightwalker]

A service provider that you have hired measuring the use of that service hardly seems like an assault on liberty.

[Soundy]

A service provider that you have hired measuring the use of that service hardly seems like an assault on liberty.

That's right... and that little dial ticking over liters on the gas pump is assault on liberty, too.

[7seven]

Seriously? People are up in arms about a smart meter and privacy concerns when they probably don't have any issues with their cellular/cable/internet providers, their many GPS enabled gadgets and services such as Facebook/Twitter having access to even more detailed info and use these services happily :fulloffuck: holy overreaction

As for potentially billing rates higher during peak periods, I have no issues with that. In a way cellular providers kind of already do this in a way with the allotted # of minutes in your plan between 8am-6pm thing and free/no restrictions evenings/weekends thing. As long as they clearly lay out for you the billing rates before hand and it'll help reduce the load demand during peak hours.

[Nssan]

I worked on the project in developing technology for the Smart Meter and Smart Meter Grid in BC. Now, aside from the privacy issue, which is subjective and debatable in so many ways. Instead, for a fact, Smart Meter will save you money in the short/long run compared to the existing system BCHydro have today. The system that is operations currently is forecasting your usage and billing you three months at a time. Then, they will use a credit system to account for your actual usage. With Smart Meter, everything is done in an instant and billed at an actual rate in real-time. Also, you can view your own usages via online or some portal. This method will save hundreds of man-hours and reduce the erroneous accounting that may happen with the old system.

[freakshow]

I worked on the project in developing technology for the Smart Meter and Smart Meter Grid in BC. What part of the product/project did you work on?

[RouRK]

I worked on the project in developing technology for the Smart Meter and Smart Meter Grid in BC. Now, aside from the privacy issue, which is subjective and debatable in so many ways. Instead, for a fact, Smart Meter will save you money in the short/long run compared to the existing system BCHydro have today. The system that is operations currently is forecasting your usage and billing you three months at a time. Then, they will use a credit system to account for your actual usage. With Smart Meter, everything is done in an instant and billed at an actual rate in real-time. Also, you can view your own usages via online or some portal. This method will save hundreds of man-hours and reduce the erroneous accounting that may happen with the old system.

you didn't tell me where i will save money... you showed where hydro saves a boat load of cash... and when the smart meters are on the peak hour billing how hydro will make a boat load more money.

i use what i use. i am billed for what i use... if i overpay 30 dollars this month and get it back next month, its not a savings. just cause it is instant billing doesn't mean i am saving anything


hydro needs outsiders to do a full audit on the company. they need to look within for money saving before they even think of raising rates.

[Great68]

I don't have a problem with the smart meters, but I'm curious how my landlord is going to deal with peak hour billing.

Right now they have 3 sub meters behind the Hydro meter for each suite and divide up the bill accordingly but there's no way they're going to be able to tell who used their power during "peak" periods.

[Manic!]

I don't have a problem with the smart meters, but I'm curious how my landlord is going to deal with peak hour billing.

Right now they have 3 sub meters behind the Hydro meter for each suite and divide up the bill accordingly but there's no way they're going to be able to tell who used their power during "peak" periods.

Doesn't BC hydro bill you?

[azncreationz]

that's what i don't get... to you it is OK to be billed more..
i installed a Electric on demand water heater.. i have a family.. i need to use electricity at the peak hours... it is NOT ok for the poorly run company to bill me more.
as the cost of everything goes up and the wages stay the same, how is that fair... i don't get a 16 - 30 % raise over 3 years. The people that work for hydro are over paid and under worked.. if the smart meter wasn't made a big deal of then we would have peak hour billing a lot sooner.. and your bill would be significantly higher. they want all this money for infrastructure..
read this and tell me your still OK with it.. B.C. Hydro deferring billions in debt, watchdog says (http://www.timescolonist.com/business/Hydro+deferring+billions+debt+watchdog+says/5619637/story.html)

Remember this is a company losing money on something that they MAKE and already have their infrastructure in place... how is this possible.

Some good points you raise there. First off, I work for Hydro, and let me tell you, we are not getting any raises (at least the worker bees aren't). Over paid and under worked? Maybe some people, but I can only speak for myself and my dept, we are working our butts off! We are on a hiring freeze, and in fact laying people off due to the Government Review that was put a few months ago. So, people who are laid off, retire, go on long term disability, maternity leave, etc..who do you think gets to do their work? The rest of us there. Yes, there are some contractors we hire, but they cost money..sometimes more money than to do it in-house.
Another fact, the Smart Meter Program was left unmentioned in the Government Review. Also, this was mandated by government back in 2007, why all the commotion now? Because it's actually happening? While I see and hear both sides, I think it's just a small group of people who are opposed to the Smart Meters, but yet very effective and vocal getting their points across.
Yes, Hydro wants money for infrastructure. Do you know how old some of the infracstructure is?!? A lot of it is reaching it's end of life span, and needs to be replaced. There's no debate about that.

[Great68]

Yes, Hydro wants money for infrastructure. Do you know how old some of the infracstructure is?!? A lot of it is reaching it's end of life span, and needs to be replaced. There's no debate about that.

I have a buddy that works at GMS and he told me Hydro has been getting screwed by the government for years.

For years insuffucient funding for proper maintenance and expansion has been given to Hydro. The liberals had the idea that independent producers were the way of the future. Now time has come that Hydro needs to put significant money into their system and everybody is shocked that rates have to go up. Also guess what happens when those private companies want to get out of the business/go under/etc..?? Hydro has to pick up control of those projects.

What costs more to run? A thousand tiny run-of-the-river sites or a few massive generating stations?? Gee I wonder.

[Soundy]

While I see and hear both sides, I think it's just a small group of people who are opposed to the Smart Meters, but yet very effective and vocal getting their points across.
According the Hydro spokesperson they had on NW last week, the complaints they've actually received amount to about one-half of one percent of their customers.

[Death2Theft]

In California the smart meters now control thermostats so enjoy it tin hat.

[RouRK]

In California the smart meters now control thermostats so enjoy it tin hat.

the Thermostats CAN BE controlled by it.. not that it is..

as will a lot of other devices that will have to be compatible

[RouRK]

Some good points you raise there. First off, I work for Hydro, and let me tell you, we are not getting any raises (at least the worker bees aren't). Over paid and under worked? Maybe some people, but I can only speak for myself and my dept, we are working our butts off! We are on a hiring freeze, and in fact laying people off due to the Government Review that was put a few months ago. So, people who are laid off, retire, go on long term disability, maternity leave, etc..who do you think gets to do their work? The rest of us there. Yes, there are some contractors we hire, but they cost money..sometimes more money than to do it in-house.
Another fact, the Smart Meter Program was left unmentioned in the Government Review. Also, this was mandated by government back in 2007, why all the commotion now? Because it's actually happening? While I see and hear both sides, I think it's just a small group of people who are opposed to the Smart Meters, but yet very effective and vocal getting their points across.
Yes, Hydro wants money for infrastructure. Do you know how old some of the infracstructure is?!? A lot of it is reaching it's end of life span, and needs to be replaced. There's no debate about that.

I understand your workload is bigger. your wages haven't raised much. But for what you do and for what benefits/pension as a journeymen/long time worker, you are at probably getting paid more then most people in your trade/field and your workload isn't too difficult (being union and such a great company to their employees).
If the government had to step in and audit a company, something is wrong. If hydro needed money for infrastructure for so many years, why was it scamming money by over hiring.. if it needed money so bad.. instead of passing the buck to the consumer, why didn't/doesn't/hasn't hydro looked within for money before any rate hikes.
i also see you haven't touched the Major thing about this thread and the most valid point for not having the meters...

do you think that hydro will implement a peak hour usage?

of course it is coming.. do you think this whole big stink made about smart meters has saved us a few more years without it?


if you look at it this way... who cares if people say it gives you cancer... HOW are you going to fight in court about how you will get billed down the line.. " smart meters will allow you to implement billing i don't like in the future " wouldn't cut it in court, for the most part. the whole"privacy" is a load of shit to me but i support it cause it is a argument that has some merit in a court of law and is raising awareness about these meters... if this went to plan.. meters would be swapped over and no one would bitch... peak hour billing is implemented and the fat cats at another poorly run crown corp, BC Hydro go on eating like pigs while the consumer who has no option is ass raped.
this isn't directed at you.. just a post in general.. not attacking anyone

[RouRK]

According the Hydro spokesperson they had on NW last week, the complaints they've actually received amount to about one-half of one percent of their customers.

sometimes one-half of one percent do the work for the rest and the other 99+ % reap the benefits without even knowing/caring

/gets up and screams fuck the world.. haha

[quasi]

Reminds me of a call my wife told me about to Hydro. A lady called in complaining how the smart meter had made her whole family sick since it was implemented. Went on and on how terrible it is and the negative effects it's having on her family and how she's going to sue them. She was totally irate losing her mind. Then the person she is talking to says, ma'am, ma'am trying to get a word in edge wise. He say's, ma'am I hate to interrupt you but I think you need to know we haven't upgraded your meter yet you don't have a smart meter.


I honestly am totally impartial to the meters either way. I know the peak rate billing is coming but we'll do our best to avoid peak times as much as possible. I'm more annoyed with my property tax going up over 5% this year then I am with smart meters.

[Vege]

At the end of the day, BC Hydro needs money to update their infrastructure. Either they end up implementing a peak usage billing (Which I definitely think is coming) or, they can just raise rates across the board. At least with peak usage billing, you have an opportunity to control how much you get charged.

[Lomac]

Reminds me of a call my wife told me about to Hydro. A lady called in complaining how the smart meter had made her whole family sick since it was implemented. Went on and on how terrible it is and the negative effects it's having on her family and how she's going to sue them. She was totally irate losing her mind. Then the person she is talking to says, ma'am, ma'am trying to get a word in edge wise. He say's, ma'am I hate to interrupt you but I think you need to know we haven't upgraded your meter yet you don't have a smart meter.

I honestly am totally impartial to the meters either way. I know the peak rate billing is coming but we'll do our best to avoid peak times as much as possible. I'm more annoyed with my property tax going up over 5% this year then I am with smart meters.

Lol. my friend works in the call center and she gets the exact same call every couple days, usually from people who haven't had the upgrade done yet. :facepalm:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StylinRed]

At the end of the day, BC Hydro needs money to update their infrastructure. Either they end up implementing a peak usage billing (Which I definitely think is coming) or, they can just raise rates across the board. At least with peak usage billing, you have an opportunity to control how much you get charged.

or they could raise rates on what they export from what i recall from an article those numbers havent changed for decades; that would be much more preferable :D

[Death2Theft]

Thats the price you pay for dealing with the US, they raies the rates to the Americans but the Canadians can't fuck with the rates.
or they could raise rates on what they export from what i recall from an article those numbers havent changed for decades; that would be much more preferable :D

[godwin]

I would wager 100% of the people don't understand how EM waves propagate from an enclosed metal casing that the meter is housed in.

According the Hydro spokesperson they had on NW last week, the complaints they've actually received amount to about one-half of one percent of their customers.

[RouRK]

I would wager 100% of the people don't understand how EM waves propagate from an enclosed metal casing that the meter is housed in.

don't stress what you can't control?

im curious... please explain.

[goo3]

I would wager 100% of the people don't understand how EM waves propagate from an enclosed metal casing that the meter is housed in.

I think they're worried about the RF transmitter.