[smarv]

In the Ayatollah's message to the US:

"They have threatened that all 'options are on the table'... Threats of war are detrimental to the United States, and carrying out a war would be 10 times more detrimental for that country,"

"The Americans must be aware and of course are aware that the Islamic Republic of Iran has threats for facing threats of war and threats of an oil embargo, which will be carried out when necessary through the will of God."

“The U.S. has no logic besides force and knows no way other than war to impose its demands,”

“When the need arises, we will inform the world’s people about the remarks the Americans made, (what) the U.S. president said, the letter he wrote, their reaction, and what they did with the content of the letters.”

Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warns US against nuclear strike - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/iran_supreme_leader_warns_us_against_V7jQNj4AupB0Z Ce7fYgmdM?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=)

Iran will carry out its threats if necessary: Leader - Tehran Times (http://www.tehrantimes.com/politics/95070-iran-will-carry-out-its-threats-if-necessary-leader)

WWIII?

[punkwax]

One Iranian parking lot, coming right up!

[keitaro]

Panetta believes Israel may strike Iran this spring: reports | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/03/us-nuclear-iran-usa-israel-idUSTRE81202Z20120203)

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta believes Israel may attack soon, in which the US will have to join as their ally. This could also lead Canada into the war as well, since we are an ally with Israel.

China and Russia are big allies with Iran, which in turn could cause them to join the war. In this case we may be facing WWIII. Let's hope there is no attack, and things can be settled peacefully.

[Spartacus]

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/1696596_700b.jpg

[smarv]

One American parking lot, coming right up!

Fixed it for you

[Manic!]

Fixed it for you

Iran can barley hit Israel. America will barley get a scratch.

[belka]

Fixed it for you

http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/347-90-000-tons-of-diplomacy-wars-are-of-course-as-a-rule-to-be-avoided-but-they-are-far-better-than-certain-kinds-of-peace.-theodore-roosevelt.jpg

[murd0c]

Iran can barley hit Israel. America will barley get a scratch.

Dirty bomb time

[CP.AR]

please don't have a war.
please?
unless of course, i owned a company that manufactures war machines :troll:

[twitchyzero]

didn't realize Iran still had an Ayatollah
i thought it would be like the equivalent to our Governor General or Japan's present day Emperor

[StylinRed]

iran can hit israel they've got new missiles


hell they just launched a rocket into space i think they can lob one next door ;)



its really the usa/israel provoking war though

supposedly the USA is working on a "new bomb" that can bust through a mountain to hit some of those iranian bases

america cant really afford any more wars though especially one with Iran




didn't realize Iran still had an Ayatollah
i thought it would be like the equivalent to our Governor General or Japan's present day Emperor

he's still there apparently Ahmadinejad has been trying to relegate/balance dealing with him over the years hence all the turmoil from his supporters; thats why america didn't back that other guy that was trying to become president (as he was portraying to be for the students but had a history of being extreme right wing)

[pastarocket]

-really hoping that cooler heads prevail. Surely, there has to be a diplomatic solution to stop the Iranian threats from escalating. War would be hell for everyone.

[1exotic]

lol at american facebook comments in that article.


"Supreme Leader", & part-time taxi driver.

Let's bomb these carpet riders once and for all, and I'm not even jewish!

[optiblue]

Shoot, a nuclear war wouldn't last longer than a couple of days before everything as we know is wiped out! Would you rather be instantly vaporized or die a slow painful death by radiation :(
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Death2Theft]

That is exactly why they are sailing the USS enterprise into the straight of hormuz after the iranians have warned them not to come in again. Because it's much cheaper for them to sink it in iran and have the radiation fuck up everyone there instead of paying to have the nuclear reactors properly disposed of.
Dirty bomb time

[smarv]

I found this picture pretty interesting its US bases around Iran, i think the US is a bully, iran is only preparing itself in self-defence IMO, and I'm not bias towards iran i actually dislike them quite a bit mainly because they took one of my relitives hostage for 9 years during iran/iraq war

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/8/8/7/6/0/9/american-military-bases-around-iran-57313194844.jpeg

[JD¹³]

All Iran has are threats. Militarily they would be stomped by Israel alone without official US aid, the US have built up and supplied Israel's entire armed forces from sidearms to fighter aircraft and smart bombs since the 1960's. The Israeli's are also very proficient when they want to be, they've been at war since literally the day the country was conceived. If the US was to get involved the only boots on the ground would be special forces teams, and drone's would strike the highest level targets Israel is incapable of getting to on it's own. The US cannot afford to go in to Iran, period. Either way Iran's military would be officially overrun within a couple weeks if not days and be forced to resort to guerrilla / insurgent style resistance. That's when it will get ugly with the religious fanatics being unleashed by their handlers.
China and Russia are big allies with Iran, which in turn could cause them to join the war. In this case we may be facing WWIII. Let's hope there is no attack, and things can be settled peacefully.
'Unlikely' is a gross understatement. China owns the US's debt, they will not go to war with them and severe that extremely complex relationship. It would collapse the entire planet's economy over night, literally everywhere would turn into the Wild West as every monetary system would crash to 0. Neither Israel or Iran is worth that sacrifice.

This is just Iran puffing it's chest to make the ignorant believe there's actually something at stake. It's all hot air.

[CRS]

Panetta believes Israel may strike Iran this spring: reports | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/03/us-nuclear-iran-usa-israel-idUSTRE81202Z20120203)

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta believes Israel may attack soon, in which the US will have to join as their ally. This could also lead Canada into the war as well, since we are an ally with Israel.

China and Russia are big allies with Iran, which in turn could cause them to join the war. In this case we may be facing WWIII. Let's hope there is no attack, and things can be settled peacefully.

Do you know how many assumptions you just made there?

[G-spec]

Being a born European it's really weird seeing how different the mentality here in North America is, the fact that we seem to be in our own little bubble unattached to the rest of the world in a way, oblivious to the fact just how bad most of the civilized world despises the US and Israel for their warmongering and bullying.

Most Canadians generally have a good idea what the US is about and we dislike them in a way that one would dislike a douchebag neighbour, but that's as complicated as our view gets, like we know he's a bully douche but whatever ok, what cha gonna do right ?
But the rest of the world especially Europe and Asia, even South America, their view on it is a much more developed and clear understanding of what the US really is and stands for. It's like they know inside and out who this douchebag is and exactly what they've done in the past, and with this understanding comes this very mature and very accepted point of view that's in their collective minds.

Every time I travel to Europe visit family everyone and I mean everyone, from family to friends to the general public right down to the way newscasts are presented, for example every news station I ever seen in Europe reports American events the way Al-Jazeera English does, very unbiased though it almost always seems there is a bias against the US, when there really isn't, it just seems that way because the US makes it so easy by fuckin up everything they do.
But they all have this same universal opinion, like they fuckin know the US=Roman Empire the way we Canadians know that nobody can beat us at hockey... it's like they all took a fckin mandatory class in school on US bullshit and they're all fully aware of who and what this entity is.
This almost fully developed understanding of the United States of America they have is something we Canadians should envy a little bit at least. Then maybe we could move past just raging about it and not really doing anything, onto actually doing something and making a real difference.

[RouRK]

it is the christ killers the world needs to deal with, Not IRAN.


Let the jews figure their own shit out.

[CRS]

it is the christ killers the world needs to deal with, Not IRAN.


Let the jews figure their own shit out.

What the fuck did I just read?!

[dee242]

didnt they learn from japan

[MindBomber]

it is the christ killers the world needs to deal with, Not IRAN.


Let the jews figure their own shit out.

Great, Revscene is apparently not only populated by racists, but anti-semites.

[4doorVIP]

Im tired of seeing our government kiss so so much Israeli ass to be honest. Let them handle their own conflict, our country is going to have even more enemies if we get involved. MindBomber, what RouRK said is not anti-semite, wake the fuck up you mindless follower.

Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird says that Canada is Israel's staunchest ally in the world, surpassing even the United States in its support

Read more: Canada is Israel's top ally: Baird (http://www.canada.com/news/Canada+Israel+ally+Baird/6099671/story.html#ixzz1lQkiYfNw)

[StylinRed]

conservatives have long been bending over for israel and the usa for that matter

there's a rather large lobby here supporting the cons so its no surprise (mulroney did the same)

[CRS]

Great, Revscene is apparently not only populated by racists, but anti-semites.

Two of the same things.

[StylinRed]

Two of the same things.
No itsnot

[westopher]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50416_71510576494_1507373_n.jpg

[StylinRed]

somewhat related sorta


china russia just vetoed the UN resolution against Syria

BBC News - Russia and China veto resolution on Syria at UN (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16890107)


as they'll veto any major moves against Iran (there's been major moves to secure oil around the world and the USA has made a lot of grabs, China isnt about to let its energy security go in Iran)


that's probably why there's all this talk of Israel attacking Iran because they dont listen to the UN and Obama isn't about to bypass the UN and do something against Iran

[Mike Oxbig]

If anything war will happen after the summer Olympics 2012 in London.

With false bombing activity in London blaming the Iranians to start WW3...

[StylinRed]

^^^ they've already said that Iran was freeing Al-Qaeda agents from prison so as to attack Israel and the USA


Why did Iran jail them anyway then? :suspicious:

[LIKEABOSS]

The people directing Israel's foreign policy are psychopaths and warmongers. They care nothing about the consequences of going to war. They don't care about killing innocent civilians (as evidenced by their continual apartheid policies in the occupied territories). Zionists like Natenyahu care only about increasing their power and control over surrounding territories (as evidenced by their repeated attempts at occupying Southern Lebanon). These warmongers don't even care about their own people. We know this because military/political strategists from around the world, including those from Mossad (Israel's equivalent of the CIA) have repeatedly warned that Israel's extremely aggressive stance towards her neighbours is destabilizing the region and is only making Israel less safe.

But this is exactly what the hawks in Israel and the United States want because the more unstable the region gets, the more power they accumulate. Also, their buddies in the arms industry get to rake in billions from taxpayers like yourself.

People must understand that Iran poses no threat to anybody and they certainly have no nuclear weapons (think, when was the last time they attacked anybody? It's the United States and Israel that are starting all the wars). The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) asserts that there is no evidence of Iran having nuclear capability. Even the United States' Secretary of Defence, Leon Panetta says Iran has no nuclear capability.

The mainstream press has been paid to beat the war drums because the military hawks, the Israeli Lobby, and the arms manufactures want to pull the United States into a war with Iran just like they did with Iraq.

The world was duped into a 10-year-3-trillion-dollar war with Iraq by these scumbags. Are we going to let them do it again? As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

[Mike Oxbig]

Everything being told is a conspiracy but what are the Americans after anyways? Oil/Gas is what they are after, why would a small country mess with the U.S. knowing they are one of the most armed and powerful country in the world. :fulloffuck:

[CRS]

No itsnot

Explain to me how the persecution/discrimination of another human being is any different from the persecution/discrimination of a person of jewish decent.

[Z3guy]

I found this picture pretty interesting its US bases around Iran, i think the US is a bully, iran is only preparing itself in self-defence IMO, and I'm not bias towards iran i actually dislike them quite a bit mainly because they took one of my relitives hostage for 9 years during iran/iraq war

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/8/8/7/6/0/9/american-military-bases-around-iran-57313194844.jpeg

say what you want to say, but as Canadians we owe allot to the USA foreign policies to live the life we live in Canada. I think the americans are bullies, but they are the bullies for democracy and freedom......that's why NA is so successful and the middle east is messed up.

[m!chael]

The people directing Israel's foreign policy are psychopaths and warmongers. They care nothing about the consequences of going to war. They don't care about killing innocent civilians (as evidenced by their continual apartheid policies in the occupied territories). Zionists like Natenyahu care only about increasing their power and control over surrounding territories (as evidenced by their repeated attempts at occupying Southern Lebanon). These warmongers don't even care about their own people. We know this because military/political strategists from around the world, including those from Mossad (Israel's equivalent of the CIA) have repeatedly warned that Israel's extremely aggressive stance towards her neighbours is destabilizing the region and is only making Israel less safe.

But this is exactly what the hawks in Israel and the United States want because the more unstable the region gets, the more power they accumulate. Also, their buddies in the arms industry get to rake in billions from taxpayers like yourself.

People must understand that Iran poses no threat to anybody and they certainly have no nuclear weapons (think, when was the last time they attacked anybody? It's the United States and Israel that are starting all the wars). The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) asserts that there is no evidence of Iran having nuclear capability. Even the United States' Secretary of Defence, Leon Panetta says Iran has no nuclear capability.

The mainstream press has been paid to beat the war drums because the military hawks, the Israeli Lobby, and the arms manufactures want to pull the United States into a war with Iran just like they did with Iraq.

The world was duped into a 10-year-3-trillion-dollar war with Iraq by these scumbags. Are we going to let them do it again? As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Dumbass.

1. Israel left southern lebanon in 2000 and does not intend to ever occupy it again. The war in 2006 was a result of Hezbollah attacking Israel and kidnapping two soldiers. It did not conquer nor occupy any land in that conflict.

2. The point is to stop Iran before it gets nuclear weapons. As to your IAEA claim, its half truth. You're making it appear as if Iran has been fully cleared by the agency and there are no problems, which couldn't be further from the truth. The IAEA released a report recently stating that Iran is on a path to building a nuclear weapon. The report was released in November, you can go read it. Of course in light of this new and true evidence you're probably going to cry about how the IAEA is a zionist conspiracy.

3. Really? Israel wants an unstable middle east? The entire country almost shat bricks when the unrest in Egypt started because of what that could mean to the peace treaty. Same applies to Jordan. Before the Arab spring there was an equilibrium in the region. Matters slipped occasionally, but for the most part, everyone was doing their own thing. Now, who fucking knows what's going to happen.

Last point: This one is for StylinRed and it kinda ties to your point. If you look at my posts in an Iran thread from about two years ago, I stated that I was told by an Israeli official that a lot of Arab countries are in consensus with Israel in regards to Iran attaining a nuclear bomb. That they're shitting bricks and do not want Iran to continue it's nuclear program. StylinRed, being the usual idiot that he is, dismissed my claims. A year ago, the US embassy wires were released. Revealed in these wires is the intense hatred that many Arab countries feel for Iran, as well as their fear of its nuclear program. Arab states scorn 'evil' Iran | World news | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/arab-states-scorn-iranian-evil) is one source, but go look up the original wires if you want to. So essentially, its not really just Israel and the U.S. that feel this way about Iran, its Arab countries as well. Also, Europe recently imposed its toughest sanctions yet on Iran, what's up with that?


I could go on, but those are the points I want to make for the time being. Stop talking out of your ass man, its not a good look.

[StylinRed]

2. The point is to stop Iran before it gets nuclear weapons. As to your IAEA claim, its half truth. You're making it appear as if Iran has been fully cleared by the agency and there are no problems, which couldn't be further from the truth. The IAEA released a report recently stating that Iran is on a path to building a nuclear weapon. The report was released in November, you can go read it. Of course in light of this new and true evidence you're probably going to cry about how the IAEA is a zionist conspiracy.


the iaea report was reiterating claims from like 5 years ago which had already been dismissed and refuted, there was nothing new in there

Last point: This one is for StylinRed and it kinda ties to your point. If you look at my posts in an Iran thread from about two years ago, I stated that I was told by an Israeli official that a lot of Arab countries are in consensus with Israel in regards to Iran attaining a nuclear bomb. That they're shitting bricks and do not want Iran to continue it's nuclear program. StylinRed, being the usual idiot that he is, dismissed my claims.

dismissed your claims that they were untrue? well they still are... Iran isn't anywhere close to a nuclear bomb and they have the right under law to attain and use nuclear energy

dismissed Saudi Arabias support of Israel against Iran? I dont see why I would dismiss that... Saudi Arabia is pox on the area (worse than Israel because Israel just wants to protect, control, and capture a tiny plot of land) and they've long been against shia muslims... look @ what they did in Bahrain... they went in there and demolished its Arab Spring brutally (shia Bahrainis that are supported by Iranians)

they also want to keep a clamp on being the sole power/provider of oil or be in control of the nations which have oil; that's why they supported going into Libya and why they're supporting anti Iranian paths


but i dont know why you keep joining in these talks because you support the killing and oppression of palestinians (someone who supports that isn't capable of seeking peace only war so your arguments are skewed) just keep lurking it suits you

[MindBomber]

Im tired of seeing our government kiss so so much Israeli ass to be honest. Let them handle their own conflict, our country is going to have even more enemies if we get involved. MindBomber, what RouRK said is not anti-semite, wake the fuck up you mindless follower.

Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird says that Canada is Israel's staunchest ally in the world, surpassing even the United States in its support

Read more: Canada is Israel's top ally: Baird (http://www.canada.com/news/Canada+Israel+ally+Baird/6099671/story.html#ixzz1lQkiYfNw)

Yes, it is antisemitic. Anti-semite is not a verb, the word you should have chosen is anti-semitic. No, I am not a mindless follower who needs to wake up.

It's entirely valid to not agree with Israels policies, but to refer to the country as a group of Christ killers is not. It's no different than if I were to refer to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Egypt as a group of sand niggers, while voicing opposition to their policies.

[m!chael]

the iaea report was reiterating claims from like 5 years ago which had already been dismissed and refuted, there was nothing new in there



dismissed your claims that they were untrue? well they still are... Iran isn't anywhere close to a nuclear bomb and they have the right under law to attain and use nuclear energy

dismissed Saudi Arabias support of Israel against Iran? I dont see why I would dismiss that... Saudi Arabia is pox on the area (worse than Israel because Israel just wants to protect, control, and capture a tiny plot of land) and they've long been against shia muslims... look @ what they did in Bahrain... they went in there and demolished its Arab Spring brutally (shia Bahrainis that are supported by Iranians)

they also want to keep a clamp on being the sole power/provider of oil or be in control of the nations which have oil; that's why they supported going into Libya and why they're supporting anti Iranian paths


but i dont know why you keep joining in these talks because you support the killing and oppression of palestinians (someone who supports that isn't capable of seeking peace only war so your arguments are skewed) just keep lurking it suits you

Lol, this made my Saturday morning. I will continue lurking Stylinred because I have a real life to attend to. Enjoy the rest of your weekend bud, even though I know you'll spend it alone, on the internet :)

[StylinRed]

Lol, this made my Saturday morning. I will continue lurking Stylinred because I have a real life to attend to. Enjoy the rest of your weekend bud, even though I know you'll spend it alone, on the internet :)

both these seem to work in response

:QQ:


&

:alonehappy:

[RouRK]

anti-semite i am not... i am not against jews... i am not against anyone.. i am not a racist.

i don't agree with the state of Isreal and the way they don't have to be held accountable for ANY of their actions.. as in settlements in the west bank and all over Palestine. Isreal is a well militarized country who is capable of defending themselves and the shit they get themselves into. WE DON"T NEED TO BE IN ANOTHER CONFLICT. fuckit..

if they don't vote in RON PAUL in the USA.. send him here.. ill vote for him..

The same shit they were saying about Iraq is the same shit they are saying about IRAN.. its LIES. Stay the fuck out of Iran and deal with the real problem... Isreal.

[MindBomber]

^That's a much better articulation of your views.

I'm pretty passive in my opinions regarding middle east politics, my knowledge reflects that, but I feel like weighing in.

I don't believe the Israeli people have any desire for continued conflict with their neighbors, the jewish people have been at war for millenia and want nothing more than a jewish state; no different than the Vatican or Islamic republics. They only issue I have with Israel is their continued building of settlements and occupation of Palestine, which is a view shared by pretty much everyone except American Republicans and Israel itself. The neighboring countries and groups, Hezbollah and Iran notably, refusing to acknowledge the right for Israel to exist is a larger force in preventing peace than anything else. There's wrong being done on both sides of the conflict.

Regarding Israel and the Iraq war, with the possible exception of a bit of flawed intelligence from the mossad, I don't think they have anything to do with it. The war in Iraq is as American as apple pie, baseball, conjecture and partisanship. Whether it be manifest destiny, revolutionary war, civil war, Vietnam, cold war, Iraq v.1 with Bush v.1 or Iraq v.2 with Bush v.2, the continued embargo against Cuba, obscene presence in South Korea and other foreign countries around the world, they are a war mongering, nation building group of lemmings. Iraq v.1 and v.2 were just a continuation and reflection of that policy and if the mossad provided faulty intelligence that's an expected mistake of the field that America used as an excuse.

[LIKEABOSS]

Dumbass.

1. Israel left southern lebanon in 2000 and does not intend to ever occupy it again. The war in 2006 was a result of Hezbollah attacking Israel and kidnapping two soldiers. It did not conquer nor occupy any land in that conflict.

2. The point is to stop Iran before it gets nuclear weapons. As to your IAEA claim, its half truth. You're making it appear as if Iran has been fully cleared by the agency and there are no problems, which couldn't be further from the truth. The IAEA released a report recently stating that Iran is on a path to building a nuclear weapon. The report was released in November, you can go read it. Of course in light of this new and true evidence you're probably going to cry about how the IAEA is a zionist conspiracy.

3. Really? Israel wants an unstable middle east? The entire country almost shat bricks when the unrest in Egypt started because of what that could mean to the peace treaty. Same applies to Jordan. Before the Arab spring there was an equilibrium in the region. Matters slipped occasionally, but for the most part, everyone was doing their own thing. Now, who fucking knows what's going to happen.

Calling others names sure adds weight to your argument. Classy. :D

Here is Paul Craig Roberts, former Reagan official and co-founder of "Reaganomics" on the US-Isreali stance on Iran. In this interview, Roberts explains that attacking Iran has been on the agenda of the Neocons (US) and Israeli hawks for years (this explains that their new-found "concern" of Iran "getting nukes" is just another ploy to go to war-just like how Iraq had "nukes") . He also reiterates my point about the IAEA having no evidence whatsoever of Iran having nuclear capability. But of course, we should take your word over the founder of Reganomics.

Paul Craig Roberts: Neo-Cons want war with Iran just like Iraq - YouTube

Here is Joseph Cirincione on the matter. He is a contributing writer to Foreign Affairs, which is one of the most important journals on American foreign policy and is also a member of the Council On Foreign Relations.

In this interview he clearly states that there is unanimous agreement among the United States' intelligence agencies that Iran has no nuclear capability and that they HAVEN'T EVEN MADE THE DECISION to start one.

In addition, EVEN IF Iran decides to go ahead with a nuclear program, it would take them YEARS to do it. And EVEN IF Iran goes ahead with it, the US would know almost IMMEDIATELY because they would be able to track their progress.

Cirinione further elucidates the fact that what the people in the Middle East are concerned about is not just some future-imaginary-nuclear-threat from Iran but nuclear capability IN GENERAL-INCLUDING those possessed by the only nuclear power in the region, Israel.

Cirinione also goes into detail about how even the Israeli's themselves don't want to go to war with Iran and about the dissent coming from Israel's own military and intelligence community.

But of course, we should take your word over Cirinone's because he's only a non-proliferation specialist and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Panetta: Israel May Strike Iran by Spring - YouTube

Finally here is George Galloway, a long-time serving Member of the British Parliament discussing the continuous invasions and occupations of Lebanon by Israel.

While you (and the likes of FOX NEWS) ceaselessly bring up the oft-cited factoid of Hezbollah capturing TWO Israeli soldiers, Galloway reminds the world that Israel has illegal kidnapped and imprisoned THOUSANDS of Lebanese (but conveniently, this is almost never cited by FOX NEWS & co.)

Furthermore, Galloway discusses the DECADES OF RELENTLESS AND CONTINUOUS INVASIONS AND OCCUPATIONS of Lebanon by Israel. And people wonder why Israel's neighbours and most of the international community (with the glaring exception of the US) have such contempt for Israel.

And to your point of Israel "leaving" Lebanon after their FAILED INVASION, they never did leave. As explained by Galloway, Israel has continued to occupy Lebanese territory long after their 2000 fiasco.

But again, who cares what a former British MP has to say about the matter, you have "sources" from Israel!

George Galloway Savages SKY NEWS! - YouTube

Finally, regarding your assertion that the Arab world "shitting bricks" over Iran. That's got to be one of the most pathetic "assertions" I've ever heard. Do you even know any Middle Eastern history? Do you know why the Arab League is currently backstabbing Syria? It's because most of the autocrats in the Middle East (the House of Saud for instance) are puppet governments of the United States. They remain in power because they have the backing of the United States military. It is in their interest to go along with their "master."

Furthermore, most of the Middle East are Sunni Muslim (Saudi Arabia for example) whereas Iran is predominately Shia Muslim and the Sunni arabs are "shitting bricks" because it is in their interest to keep the Shia's at bay. What's more disturbing (to the Sunni's) is that since Bush's catastrophic war in Iraq, Shia's now have control over Iraq. And naturally the Shia's in Iraq are aligned with the Shia's in Iran. Additionally, the oil rich regions of Saudi Arabia are populated predominately by Shia Muslims. The Saudi autocrats naturally fear the growing powers of a rising Shia awakening in the Middle East, and with Iran being the centre of Shia influence, they (Saudi & co.) will do almost anything to pull the rug under them.

One last point regarding your assertion for the need for a PREEMPTIVE WAR against Iran because they MIGHT get a nuclear weapon: This is the exact kind of Nazi-logic that got the world into a 10-year-3-trillion-dollar war with Iraq-leaving hundreds of thousands of innocent dead. According to your Nazi-logic, the US and Israel CAN INVADE ANY country it wishes to. All it has to do is to CLAIM that country X MIGHT start a WMDs program. I do not condone preemptive war based on speculation and cannot comprehend Nazi-logic so I will rest my case here.

But alas, you have "sources" from inside Israel itself! :D

[m4k4v4li]

Just got lawyered LIKEABOSS

[hillmar]

anti-semite i am not... i am not against jews... i am not against anyone.. i am not a racist.

i don't agree with the state of Isreal and the way they don't have to be held accountable for ANY of their actions.. as in settlements in the west bank and all over Palestine. Isreal is a well militarized country who is capable of defending themselves and the shit they get themselves into. WE DON"T NEED TO BE IN ANOTHER CONFLICT. fuckit..

if they don't vote in RON PAUL in the USA.. send him here.. ill vote for him..

The same shit they were saying about Iraq is the same shit they are saying about IRAN.. its LIES. Stay the fuck out of Iran and deal with the real problem... Isreal.
And how quick do we forget who is also in charge of Iran.... Give this man nuclear weapons and I can guarantee he will use it without any hesitation. This was from over 3 years ago on national TV!
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "Death to Israel" - YouTube
And him how the holocast could have not happend...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vYXcna8Pxw&feature=related

[StylinRed]

Give this man nuclear weapons and I can guarantee he will use it without any hesitation.

No leader in the world is truly crazy nor is there one who would freely use nuclear weapons (except for Americans); hell not even the North Korean leaders who have been painted as the craziest fucks in the world used their nukes; even the most ruthless leaders in the world like Israel, haven't used their nukes and these are leaders who evicted people from their own homes and country simply so someone of their own religion could live in there (the same people who experienced what that feels like at the hands of the Nazis)...

but

you're bypassing the facts and shooting straight to and propping up the propaganda that Iran is getting a nuclear weapon... which so far is absolutely not true...





this is the same bs that happens time and again America wants to attack someone and you get the media/entertainment industry making their target seem evil & crazy... they did it with the British, Germans, Commies, North Koreans, Cubans, Venezuelans, Iraqis, Libyans, Iranians, Mexicans, etc, etc and people eat that shit up! most because they don't know better and others because they know whats going on but they support the actions so they perpetuate it






as for your other remark thats a completely other argument and really has more to do with thumbing his nose @ western hypocrisy for denying a discussion and even jailing prominent historians over it

[hillmar]

^^
Every country uses that exact same tactics of making their target seem evil and crazy, not just the Americans. You honestly believe the Iranian people aren't brainwashed into thinking the same thing Ahmadinejad wants them to think. Same goes for North Korea... As your comment about Americans freely using the Nuclear bomb, Don't forget who attacked them in the first place, and woke the sleeping Giant ( Pearl Harbor). Lets just say this... If I had to choose who should lead the most powerful army in the world, it sure wouldn't be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, or Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. I'd choose Obama out of all those evils.

[StylinRed]

^^
Every country uses that exact same tactics of making their target seem evil and crazy, not just the Americans. You honestly believe the Iranian people aren't brainwashed into thinking the same thing Ahmadinejad wants them to think. Same goes for North Korea... As your comment about Americans freely using the Nuclear bomb, Don't forget who attacked them in the first place, and woke the sleeping Giant ( Pearl Harbor). Lets just say this... If I had to choose who should lead the most powerful army in the world, it sure wouldn't be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, or Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. I'd choose Obama out of all those evils.

So you agree。


and i agree id rather obama/ron paul lead the usa out of those available... i'd prefer if Jimmy Carter came back though

[Culture_Vulture]

Oooh, political debate thread
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/gallery/x-all-the-things/x-all-the-things-template.jpg

[Valour]

I think they could all use a hug... from Jesus

[mikemhg]

I can't stand people who throw the anti-semite word when against Israel. Persians are semites are well, so drop that bullshit cop out argument.

It blows my fucking mind how stupid we as humans are, our short term memories seem to be on par with that of a dog's.

This subtle propaganda around Iran and its Nuclear capabilities are EXACTLY the same as the build up to the Iraq war. How do people forgot how terrible and shitty that war was, and how the argument for war was a complete fabrication? This is exactly what's happening all over again less than 10 years later.

It has been and always been about the control of oil resourses, let's face it we've hit peak supply, the US and EU know this. The western economies are prepping for this, and are lookg to secure Iran with a more friendly regime to our interests. The CIA are already opporating in Iran and Syria as we speak.

I don't have a doubt this war will end up happening, and I think it's extremely unfortunate. It will end up being a complete blood bath for the Iranians, and change the face of our world for years to come.

[Renxo]

All that needs to happen is an assassination on pres Amadinajiiihad and everything should be peaceful again...

[sulos]

You call israel "Christ killers"? You know that was the plan from the beginning right?

Rev 13:8 "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.". God's plan was that Jesus would die for our sins. Do you believe in Jesus Red? If no, then why are you mad? If yes, then same question, why are you mad? Everything went according to plan.
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[StylinRed]

Do you believe in Jesus Red? If no, then why are you mad? If yes, then same question, why are you mad? Everything went according to plan.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Are u referring to me? Cuz i wasnt the one who made the comments you're talking about...

[f.]

BBC News - Obama tightens US sanctions on Iran (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16914690)

Being Persian myself (I say Persian and not Iranian because I don't really like associating myself with what Iran is now), I am all for a change in power. I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a war, but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it and the change it SHOULD bring. The Human Rights violations and murders that are occurring due to the current regime with regards to the Bahai's and many other religious and cultural backgrounds needs to be stopped. Here's an article for the Baha'i Human Rights if anyone that's interested: Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran (http://iran.bahai.us/)

[RouRK]

BBC News - Obama tightens US sanctions on Iran (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16914690)

Being Persian myself (I say Persian and not Iranian because I don't really like associating myself with what Iran is now), I am all for a change in power. I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a war, but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it and the change it SHOULD bring. The Human Rights violations and murders that are occurring due to the current regime with regards to the Bahai's and many other religious and cultural backgrounds needs to be stopped. Here's an article for the Baha'i Human Rights if anyone that's interested: Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran (http://iran.bahai.us/)

Iran is a country of young people and old rule.. a regime change is in the near future.. either by Israel or by the youth. Israel need a Regime change also.

[StylinRed]

Bahais have always been shunned even before the ayatollah much like the kurds; blowing Iran up isnt going to change anything and only make things worse

[jasonturbo]

StylinRed, (And the rest of the posters in this thread)

Is it asking too much for you to disclose your own personal religous and political beliefs?

I only ask because I am trying to determine if you are coming from an impartial perspective, and I get the feeling others are wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

[LIKEABOSS]

StylinRed, (And the rest of the posters in this thread)

Is it asking too much for you to disclose your own personal religous and political beliefs?

I only ask because I am trying to determine if you are coming from an impartial perspective, and I get the feeling others are wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

I am Chinese and was born in Canada. As for religion, I am agnostic (I do not believe yet do not dispute the existence of God). My loyalty is to the truth.

PS. I challenge those of you (Mindbomber, tooslow) who failed my earlier post to come out and present your counter-argument.

[marksport]

I think they could all use a hug... from Jesus

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3343/3447123375_ff4394c31d_b.jpg

[LIKEABOSS]

BBC News - Obama tightens US sanctions on Iran (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16914690)

Being Persian myself (I say Persian and not Iranian because I don't really like associating myself with what Iran is now), I am all for a change in power. I don't necessarily agree with the idea of a war, but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it and the change it SHOULD bring. The Human Rights violations and murders that are occurring due to the current regime with regards to the Bahai's and many other religious and cultural backgrounds needs to be stopped. Here's an article for the Baha'i Human Rights if anyone that's interested: Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran (http://iran.bahai.us/)

You claim you "do not agree with the idea of war" yet you also say "but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it."

So which is it? Make up your mind.

If NATO invades Iran, Iran is going to end up just like Iraq.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are going to be slaughtered, they (NATO) are going to level the entire country with bombs, there is going to be a protracted guerilla insurgency against the occupiers, thousands of NATO soldiers are going to be killed, there is going to be a civil war among the various religious sects, the Americans are going to rape and pillage the entire country, the Iranian people are going to become destitute and will do anything to survive (like the mothers in Iraq who are resorting to prostitution to feed their kids). Need I say more?

All this happened in Iraq and it's going to happen to Iran. But of course, it'll be "worth it" because you have "good intentions."

And for those who don't think a protracted war with Iran won't to affect you, think again.

Oil prices are going to go through the roof, the Canadian military may be pulled into the fiasco (Harper as minority leader, voted for Canada to go to War against Iraq), Canada will have to spend billions to support the war and will be responsible for reconstruction, the US and the rest of NATO will have to dish out trillions of dollars during a time when the world is in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. What this means is that the world economy will tank further, millions more people will lose their jobs, inflation will snowball (governments will print money to finance the war) and the likelihood of another systemic financial crisis (think 2008 redux) will be that much more likely.

[StylinRed]

StylinRed, (And the rest of the posters in this thread)

Is it asking too much for you to disclose your own personal religous and political beliefs?

I only ask because I am trying to determine if you are coming from an impartial perspective, and I get the feeling others are wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance.

That shouldnt be a concern at all....(Edited out not comfortable with that much detail out, trust most have read it anyway)

Personally i feel that jews,christians, muslims are part of the same faith (as they are) i dont have any specific leanings isimply believe there might be a god and we'll see? Maybe

Im a firm believer in right and wrong and i strive for peace; i cant stand seeing bullshit (propaganda) spewed to further someones ulterior goals especially when it puts innocents/civillians in harms way (something i find inherrent to Canadian Values)

The only differences that should arise between a like minded person (right/wrong), imo, is what we define as bullshit

[Death2Theft]

So basically the US says WHEN isreal attacks Iran and Iran dares to defend itself or fight back the US will go in and start war. The amazing part is 48% of americans support the war......Have they forgotten WMD fiasco already?

[f.]

You say you "do not agree with the idea of war" yet you say "but if that's what it comes down to, I would support it."

So which is it? Make up your mind.

If NATO invades Iran, Iran is going to end up just like Iraq.

Hundreds of thousands of innocent people are going to be slaughtered, they (NATO) are going to level the entire country with bombs, there is going to be a protracted guerilla insurgency against the occupiers, thousands of NATO soldiers are going to be killed, there is going to be a civil war among the various religious sects, the Americans are going to rape and pillage the entire country, the Iranian people are going to become destitute and will do anything to survive (like the mothers in Iraq who had to resort to prostitution to feed their kids). Need I say more?

All this happened in Iraq and it's going to happen to Iran. But of course, it'll be "worth it" because you have "good intentions."

And for those who don't think a protracted war with Iran won't to affect you, think again.

Oil prices are going to go through the roof, the Canadian military may be pulled into the fiasco (Harper as minority leader, voted for Canada to go to War against Iraq), Canada will have to spend billions to support the war and will be responsible for reconstruction, the US and the rest of NATO will have to dish out trillions of dollars during a time when the world is in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. What this means is that the world economy will tank further, millions more people will lose their jobs, inflation will snowball (governments will print money to finance the war) and the likelihood of another systemic financial crisis (think 2008 redux) will be that much more likely.

Let me clarify, I don't agree with the idea of war in general. As a realist though, it's a very unfortunate part of life. I may come from a bias against Iran because they tried to kill my dad for his beliefs, but at the end of the day, you need to stop living in your fantasy world. Put yourself in the shoes of the Ayatollah, do you really think he cares about the people and what happens to them so long as he has power through his puppet Ahmedinejad? Do you really think that politics are going to work with such insanely extremist individuals? No, I didn't think so. In an ideal world, politics should be the way and not war, but this world is far from ideal.

[Graeme S]

No matter who it is, they would be foolish to attack Iran. If they attack Iran, they prove the conservative anti-Israel/Americans right, and give EVERYONE a reason to support them.

They do nothing, and the conservatives continue to cry wolf about the Amerisraelis while nothing happens and eventually something will change from within.

Maybe not now. Maybe not next year. Maybe not by 2020. But eventually.

[UFO]

This subtle propaganda around Iran and its Nuclear capabilities are EXACTLY the same as the build up to the Iraq war. How do people forgot how terrible and shitty that war was, and how the argument for war was a complete fabrication? This is exactly what's happening all over again less than 10 years later.

Is it really though? I recall Iraq was quite open to having their facilities inspected and searched for WMD, I could be wrong. The impression I'm getting with Iran, whether it be through propaganda or not, is that they do not want anybody up in their business and they have come forward publicly stating as such.


It has been and always been about the control of oil resourses, let's face it we've hit peak supply, the US and EU know this. The western economies are prepping for this, and are lookg to secure Iran with a more friendly regime to our interests. The CIA are already opporating in Iran and Syria as we speak.


I have no doubt that oil is a huge point of influence. But that does not let Iran off the hook though.

[UFO]

China owns the US's debt, they will not go to war with them and severe that extremely complex relationship. It would collapse the entire planet's economy over night, literally everywhere would turn into the Wild West as every monetary system would crash to 0. Neither Israel or Iran is worth that sacrifice.


China owns ~8% of the US debt, just under 1.16 trillion. ~2/3 of US 14.3 trillion debt is domestically held. As reference, Japan owns ~6.4%, UK ~2.4%.

Ignoring the other economic variables you mentioned, 1.16 trillion to help gain control of oil supply really isn't that much to give up for China.

[LIKEABOSS]

As a realist

:haha:

Get your facts straight. You are no realist. You are the worse kind of idealist, the kind that thinks he knows something, calling yourself a realist *spits on floor*, when in fact you know nothing.

You say the autocrats in Iran don't care about their people, by implication, you are saying that the leaders of other countries "care more" about their people. Do you think President Bush "cares more" about his people? Did he show his affection for the people by dishing out trillion-dollar tax cuts to the 1% while simultaneously impoverishing the 99% and saddling the nation with an additional record-shattering-$4 trillion debt? How about when America's elected leaders looked the other way when the Banksters systematically created (and is still in the process of expanding) financial institutions that were "too big to fail," knowing full well that if something catastrophic were to ever happen to their investments the government would have no choice but to bail them out? Do you think that by presiding over the most catastrophic financial crisis since the Great Depression shows that Bush "cares more" about the 99%? How about then going on to bail out his buddies on Wall Street (with taxpayers dollars), who put the world's economy at risk so they could rake in billions by gambling on extremely-convoluted-financial-instruments that even Warren Buffet can't understand (he calls them "weapons of mass financial destruction"). President Bush sure "cares" about his people.

And let's examine President Obama's record, who claimed that he would "put on his most comfortable pair of shoes" and strike alongside the working class. Not only did he not do this, but he sent his thugs (aka the police) to beat up, arrest and pepper spray these-very-same-constituents en-mass when they commenced to call him out-by protesting against economic inequality and Wall Street corruption. Was beating up and arresting peaceful citizens en-mass his way of showing his affection for the people? And what about his "commitment" to bring an end to Bush's wars? Interestingly, he not only didn't call an end to the wars, but actually increased America's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan by sending thousands of additional troops (re: American citizens) into the inferno. Not only did he continue Bush's wars, he upped Bush by launching military strikes against Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Yemen and Libya. Suicide rates among the military is at an all time high and divorce rates are at an astronomical 80%! With the American military in tatters, Obama yet prepares for another war, this time against Iran. The CIA concluded long ago that any military involvement in the Middle East would predictably lead to more terrorist attacks at home yet NATO leaders continue to beat the war drums, why? Does antagonizing a billion Muslims make America or Europe safer? Clearly this is not the case. Wars spectacularly enrich the few while putting every one else in harms way. This has always been the case and this is exactly what the ruling elite want. Whether the elites are from Iran, America, or Great Britain makes little difference. Lastly, Obama promised to roll back Bush's Patriot Act and restore habeas-corpus, but not only did he not do as promised, but in his signing of NDAA 2012, the American police state can now INDEFINITELY DETAIN any American citizen on the mere SUSPICION of involvement of a terrorist activity, no evidence necessary. These actions sure prove that Obama "cares" about his people eh?

The ruling class, regardless of country, all have the same objectives-that is to amass wealth and power at the expense of their "subjects." Whether a country is more or less free, or more or less just-does not rest on the benevolence of the rulers but on the diligence of the people. As Malcom X so tellingly said, "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it."

Freedom and democracy can never be imposed from the outside. Whenever this is attempted, only devastation will follow, as seen in Afghanistan and in Iraq. And let's not kid ourselves, the Americans are not about to risk trillions of dollars and their military to "bring democracy to the Middle East." In the 1950's, the Iranian people elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh, who successfully kicked out the British colonizers. The CIA then staged a coup and imposed their puppet-Reza Shah. Reza Shah ruled Iran for decades with an Iron Fist but was eventually overthrown by the Iranian people with the help of the mullahs in 1978-79. The religious fanatics then gained power and have maintained their grip on Iranian society to present day. If the Iranian people want democracy, they will have to overthrow the current regime- because no one else can do it for them.

[Death2Theft]

WTF?!?!!
Article basically says that Canada is going to support the US more....
Dont we the citizens get a say in this? Who is the opposing party to vote for to not get dragged into any more BS by the US?

» Strengthening U.S.-Canada Security Interests in North America and Around the Globe Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/strengthening-u-s-canada-security-interests-in-north-america-and-around-the-globe/)
Much of the focus will be on countering China’s rising power. This will include supporting large bases in Japan and South Korea, along with stationing troops in Australia. The U.S. will also continue efforts to forge stronger military alliances with the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam and Burma. While the plan envisions a leaner military force, there is little doubt that Washington will continue to police the world. How does Canada fit into this new realignment of American strategic priorities? It is clear that the U.S. will rely more on its allies during international missions. Canada may gain a greater voice in future military operations, but it will also mean that they will have to bear more of the burden. In the coming years, as NATO members begin cutting defense spending, Canada will be counted on to play an even bigger role in any possible overseas conflicts.

[Z3guy]

WTF?!?!!
Article basically says that Canada is going to support the US more....
Dont we the citizens get a say in this? Who is the opposing party to vote for to not get dragged into any more BS by the US?

» Strengthening U.S.-Canada Security Interests in North America and Around the Globe Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/strengthening-u-s-canada-security-interests-in-north-america-and-around-the-globe/)

do you have a clue how the world works? The US is Canada's best friend, most important trade partner and a neighbour. Regardless if you agree or disagree with US foreign policy we are always going to have a strong committed relationship with the US. Canada is a small very safe country because people know who is our friends are.

[DC5-S]

^ agreed and to the idiot that thinks assassinating the Iranian president will solve anything is in for a surprise
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[Death2Theft]

Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?

[Ducdesmo]

Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?

Unfortunately we have lost our soverignity awhile ago. In a recent quote by our very own PM in 2010, "I know some people dont like it. It is a loss of national sovereignty, but it is reality.”

Or better yet, "As I constantly remind Canadians, there isnt really a Canadian economy anymore. It is a global economy.”

Who is he working for? Definitely not in the best interest of Canadians.

[f.]

:haha:

Get your facts straight. You are no realist. You are the worse kind of idealist, the kind that thinks he knows something, calling yourself a realist *spits on floor*, when in fact you know nothing.


You my friend, no matter how hard you try, will never have the kind of knowledge about my people that I have, so in that regards I'd just stop if I were you. And what are you? 12? Spits on floor? Grow the fuck up

I feel like you can't compare apples and oranges. All situations are different, you can't say that necessarily because something happened in one case it'll happen in the next. Sure there are similarities, but Iran is no Iraq or Afghanistan. The people of Iran have tried for change but have been shut down because of the iron fist of the government. The protests of 2009 and again in 2011 have resulted in casualties. At the end of the day, Iran as a country as a whole wants change, and I support any means to achieve it.

[DC5-S]

Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?

You do realize if we didn't have the states the world would be a fucked up place right now. Sure in some peoples eyes what they do is criminal but they are protecting our interests too.
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[falcon]

Personally i feel that jews, christians, muslims are part of the same faith (as they are)

You just lost any and all credibility you still had.

[Eastwood]

To me this whole idea of the Iranians building Nuclear Weapons to which the Iranians deny sounds awfully close to WMD's and we all know how well that panned out.

[mr_chin]

2012 is just going as planned, the beginning of the end.

There was a prediction I read somewhere saying that WW1 will be fought with spears and bows. WW2 will be fought with guns and explosives. WW3 will be fought with nuclear weapons and bombs.

US have too much conspiracy shit going on that it makes it so hard to support them.

[highfive]

^ You mean this?

"I know not with what weapons WW3 will be fought, but WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein

[JD¹³]

Ignoring the other economic variables you mentioned, 1.16 trillion to help gain control of oil supply really isn't that much to give up for China.
Not all debt is monetary. The economic relationship between arguably the two largest and most powerful economies is irreversible. There will always be fundamental differences between the two but they now have a symbiotic economic relationship and much of the world operates on the backs of their infrastructure. In that regard the US and China are indebtted to eachother for the forseeable future. A severing of those ties, such as if the countries went to war against eachother, would be like damming the river above the waterfall. It's a variable you can't ignore so it's a moot point in this argument. It's not going to happen over Israel or Iran. If anything it could happen over Canada in 20-30 years.
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[StylinRed]

You just lost any and all credibility you still had.

really? They're apart of the Abrahamic faiths (which is what i was referring to); u should educate urself on their connection/relations and similarities in practices and beliefs

thats not what this thread is for but clearly you need some educating.... Go seek it
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[LIKEABOSS]

"I-know-something-you-don't-know-la-la-la-la-la-and-I'm-not-going-to-tell-la-la-la-la-la" :whistle:

Pathetic, just pathetic.

You claim I "will never have the kind of knowledge about [the Iranian] people that [you] have." Yet you can't even conjure up a single rebuttal.

Pathetic.

[f.]

:whistle:

Pathetic, just pathetic. You claim I (LIKEABOSS) "will never have the kind of knowledge about my people that I (f.) have." Yet you can't even conjure up a single rebuttal. Pathetic.

Hahahahaha, I actually laughed out loud. Sorry I don't meet up to your e-standards, you're bullshit view is not worth my time.

[trip]

interesting...

Iran Didn’t Bring Down the RQ-170. A Chinese Cyber Whiz Team Did « (http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/iran-didnt-bring-down-the-rq-170-a-chinese-cyber-whiz-team-did/)

[rsx]

So what stocks should we be buying for this looming war? Halliburton?

[UFO]

Not all debt is monetary. The economic relationship between arguably the two largest and most powerful economies is irreversible. There will always be fundamental differences between the two but they now have a symbiotic economic relationship and much of the world operates on the backs of their infrastructure. In that regard the US and China are indebtted to eachother for the forseeable future. A severing of those ties, such as if the countries went to war against eachother, would be like damming the river above the waterfall. It's a variable you can't ignore so it's a moot point in this argument. It's not going to happen over Israel or Iran. If anything it could happen over Canada in 20-30 years.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Getting a bit abstract here. Debt is monetary, there are no I.O.U.'s or "I got this tab, you pick up the next one" here. This real debt will not prevent China from fighting against the US.

What you are talking about is more the globalized economy and how these 2 large economies are currently relying on each other for their own respective success and growth, has nothing to do with 'debt' and being indebted to each other. If the economic system as we know it collapses, I would argue that the US and the West are going feel the effects much much more than China would.

Assuming US and China go against each other at some point in the future, where is the US going to get all of their cheap manufacturing and high volume production labour to fulfill demands? There's nobody else but China to turn to. China realizes this, US realizes this. It sounds like the US may be the ones willing to jeopardize this relationship by going after the oil supply.

I'm no expert in this area, just some surface observations.

[Graeme S]

People always say "it would be in X's best interest to make sure that Y continues to do what it's doing now."

Well, that was true for the American housing bubble collapse. If the Banks had simply renegotiated the mortgages that they knew were infeasable and simply written down the value of the houses instead of calling the mortgages due and foreclosing on them, then the bubble wouldn't have burst as quickly or as harshly. "It was in the Banks' best interest to not call in that many mortgages all at once, because the total value of assets fell."

Let's look at Greece. It'd be in the world's best interest to just shut the fuck up and give them a fuckton of money to try and pay off a bunch of their debts (or just forgive them!) and then move on from there.

And now, going back on what I said before as far as what would be in Israel/Iran's best interests...it's entirely possible Israel may attack Iran, even though it's not in their best long-term interests at all.

[Brianrietta]

really? They're apart of the Abrahamic faiths (which is what i was referring to); u should educate urself on their connection/relations and similarities in practices and beliefs

thats not what this thread is for but clearly you need some educating.... Go seek it
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

I wouldn't have chipped in on this except for the way that you worded that. As poorly qualified as I may be to speak on the point, I once felt like you until I spent a hellish three years minoring in Religious Studies (might as well use some of that knowledge here, I sure don't in the workplace). While all three religions share a common geographical background, all three approach the core aspects of their religions completely differently. It's not fair to say that they share a "faith" when the tenets of all three vary so wildly. Christians regard sin as the problem and see salvation as the solution. Muslims define the problem as pride that can only be conquered by submission. While Jews and Muslims both speak of sin, salvation from it isn't the goal or necessary. It's easy to believe that all three religions share the same values and want the same things but the more indepth you go the less true that is.

We had a guest lecture from a very interesting prof named Stephen Prothero who wrote a horrifically wordy book you should check out called "God is not One". It's a heavy read but quite informative, especially if you don't have a background in the world's main religions.

[StylinRed]

yes i took religious studies too

and my grandparents/parents are a mix of jewish/christian (anglican, catholic)/muslim

you can harp on the differences till the sun doesnt shine

but you can do the same on the similarities if you're one to strive for peace and understanding amongst all you'll be looking at one over the other

but again this is a subject for another thread

[Z3guy]

Really so everyone agrees Canada should do more to support the US regardless of how criminal the US becomes? It's bad enough that we support what they are doing now with bogus WMD and all but you think it's ok that we take a BIGGER role? Are we not a sovereign nation? Will we become the "dirty goods done cheap" for the US when the citizens there dont want the US to do something?

I agree that the US pushes the envelope in regards to their foreign policy implementation (i.e. send the aircraft carriers to the middle east)....you can call it criminal or whatever you like, but I am happy the US are driving democracy around the world. Can you imagine if Russia or China had the power of the US...the world would be a completely different place....and definitely not better.

The US is one of the youngest countries in the world, but also the most successful financially and socially. Doesn't that tell you something?

[boss_clad]

Not all debt is monetary. The economic relationship between arguably the two largest and most powerful economies is irreversible. There will always be fundamental differences between the two but they now have a symbiotic economic relationship and much of the world operates on the backs of their infrastructure. In that regard the US and China are indebtted to eachother for the forseeable future. A severing of those ties, such as if the countries went to war against eachother, would be like damming the river above the waterfall. It's a variable you can't ignore so it's a moot point in this argument. It's not going to happen over Israel or Iran. If anything it could happen over Canada in 20-30 years.
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interesting how you say there could be conflict between the US and China over Canada, care to elaborate on that?

when you said that, for some reason, i had a flashback to the scene in Danial Craig's 007 Quantum of Solace, where James Bond is crashing the secret meeting between that organization at the opera in Austria.

some guy said something like: "perhaps the tierra project isn't good use of quantum's time, maybe we should shift our focus to the Canadian",

but yea,

my take on what you said: Canada's a fucking awesome, hospitable country that China will try to take over in the future, which the US will of course, defend?

[CRX SiR]

The big reason we would be fought over is our vast resources. Fresh water, Oil and Gas, minerals, lumber, great expanses of farm land, even things like vast amount of open land to live on, or north west passage for shipping become factors that when put together in 30 years time could be worth war over.

[rsx]

So what's this hear about the USS Enterprise (set to be decommed) in Iran, am I reading to much into this?

[highfive]

The big reason we would be fought over is our vast resources. Fresh water, Oil and Gas, minerals, lumber, great expanses of farm land, even things like vast amount of open land to live on, or north west passage for shipping become factors that when put together in 30 years time could be worth war over.

Canada is too big to fight a war over. Think about invading the entire country where population is scattered across. Think about protecting important economic areas in Canada. And think about how many more soldier required to maintain order and protect Canada from other foreign invaders.

It's way better to remain peaceful with Canada and just own their resources.

[JD¹³]

Canada is too big to fight a war over. Think about invading the entire country where population is scattered across. Think about protecting important economic areas in Canada. And think about how many more soldier required to maintain order and protect Canada from other foreign invaders.
Very wrong, it would actually be easy. 90% of the population, all major cities, and every major hub of the military exist in a belt probably 200mi thick just above the 49th parallel. I know it sucks to accept it but if a major military power wanted control of Canada on our own we would be a cake-walk.
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[ilovebacon]

This is what happen when someone has beef with another person.. Couldn't say I didn't see this coming.
look like US is fed up with china pirating US movies? lol another excuse for him to use just so we can go to another war?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nGM7s4mrFA&feature=watch_response
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[Death2Theft]

Nope he's just playing to the internet censorship lobbyists. Using this as another excuse to federally come in and "censor/enforce" things to take away more freedoms. If he really had an issue against china do you think he would have signed this?
Obama Signs Global Internet Treaty Worse Than SOPA: White House bypasses Senate to ink agreement that could allow Chinese companies to demand ISPs remove web content in US with no legal oversight « The Destructionist (http://destructionist.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/obama-signs-global-internet-treaty-worse-than-sopa-white-house-bypasses-senate-to-ink-agreement-that-could-allow-chinese-companies-to-demand-isps-remove-web-content-in-us-with-no-legal-oversight/)

He could level the playing field easily by upping import taxes, manufacturing in american would take off, but no he allows china to sell us shit with fuck all in duty and taxes so Americans would have to compete with slave labour in china where the parents lock kids up to a fence to pee and poo while they work at the factory.

[UFO]

He could level the playing field easily by upping import taxes, manufacturing in american would take off, but no he allows china to sell us shit with fuck all in duty and taxes so Americans would have to compete with slave labour in china where the parents lock kids up to a fence to pee and poo while they work at the factory.

This is going well off topic. But Obama is smart enough to know that the US economy DEPENDS on cheap foreign production. Bringing jobs back stateside may be the fix to many problems, but man, is somebody going to have to pay the price big time in order for that to happen. If you jack up import taxes, companies profit margins will shrink. Shareholders see this poor performance, dump stock, already fragile economy tanks even further. Companies with now worthless stock are forced to shut down and nobody has jobs.

This is a long'ish but pretty good read, mostly Apple related but should translate similarly to other companies using overseas production http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2 . No slave labour or kids tied up to fences here, but I'm not sure I buy into all of it, Apple is essentially saying they can't make iPhones in the US even if foreign labour was not significantly cheaper than US labour; simply because there aren't enough labourers and mid-level engineers in the US and the workforce is not as 'flexible', whatever you want to translate that to mean.

The way I interpret it, in the end it all comes down to growth and profits--turn in good growth and profits, shareholders are happy, and the economy is happy. If in doing so you are screwing your own people of jobs and supporting a foreign economy then so be it, as long as the growth and profits are there that is the important thing to keep your company alive. And at the end of the day, it still comes down to a simple survival of the fittest.

[rsx]

Unfair balance in manufacturing? Geez, the US government can subsidize and create incentives to keep that shit here, but instead decided to spend their money on 2 needless wars.

[Z3guy]

Unfair balance in manufacturing? Geez, the US government can subsidize and create incentives to keep that shit here, but instead decided to spend their money on 2 needless wars.

needless wars? the war in Iraq was all about oil reserves, are you OK paying double for gas? There is a reason gas in Europe is 2.5x the cost in NA.

[StaxBundlez]

Kim Jong il Inevitable - YouTube

[ilovebacon]

needless wars? the war in Iraq was all about oil reserves, are you OK paying double for gas? There is a reason gas in Europe is 2.5x the cost in NA.

why?!

[CRS]

needless wars? the war in Iraq was all about oil reserves, are you OK paying double for gas? There is a reason gas in Europe is 2.5x the cost in NA.

This is far too simplistic of a view.

Did the US go to war in iraq to take over the oil fields? Probably.

Is that the reason why gas in Europe is so much more expensive than it is here? Most likely not.

Let me explain. Gas prices in Europe are especially high because driving is considered a luxury. They are far better equipped with an excellent public transportation system than we are here. Their gas prices are high to subsidize their low public transportation costs. Another reason why scooters are so popular in Europe.

Although I'm sure that there is SOME correlation between your arguments but to say it is entirely the reason is simply untrue.

And to answer a secondary question (of if I'm okay with paying double for gas), I actually would be, provided that our public transportation system is as efficient and cheap as theirs.

[Z3guy]

To me this whole idea of the Iranians building Nuclear Weapons to which the Iranians deny sounds awfully close to WMD's and we all know how well that panned out.

no it is not the same thing at all...the Iranians have nuclear reactors and it is documented not speculated that they are currently in the process of enriching uranium to weapons grade......very very scary shit....if the Iranians actually manufacture a nuclear weapon and decide to use it on Israel, say bye bye Iran as a country.......

[RouRK]

no it is not the same thing at all...the Iranians have nuclear reactors and it is documented not speculated that they are currently in the process of enriching uranium to weapons grade......very very scary shit....if the Iranians actually manufacture a nuclear weapon and decide to use it on Israel, say bye bye Iran as a country.......

don't believe the hype.

[rsx]

Ahmadinejad teases 'big' new nuclear announcement | CTV Edmonton (http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120211/iran-nuclear-program-ahmadinejad-hints-at-announcement-120211/20120211/?hub=EdmontonHome)

"Within the next few days the world will witness the inauguration of several big new achievements in the nuclear field," Ahmadinejad told the crowd in Tehran's famous Azadi, or Freedom, square.

[Narayan]

no it is not the same thing at all...the Iranians have nuclear reactors and it is documented not speculated that they are currently in the process of enriching uranium to weapons grade......very very scary shit....if the Iranians actually manufacture a nuclear weapon and decide to use it on Israel, say bye bye Iran as a country.......

See that's exactly why they won't as they will just get nuked right back.
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[shawnly1000]

"The failed bomb attack by an Iranian national in Bangkok today is just the latest in what Israeli officials say is "a coordinated series of attacks" that began in January, and includes Monday's attacks in India and Georgia, as well as a foiled attempt to assassinate the Israeli ambassador in Azerbaijan."

Israelis: Iran Behind Bangkok Bombings, 'Coordinated Attacks' Around the World - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/israelis-iran-behind-bangkok-bombings-coordinated-attacks-around-150647081--abc-news.html)

[Graeme S]

More in-depth analysis from The Globe And Mail:
Israel and Iran: at war in the shadows - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/israel-and-iran-at-war-in-the-shadows/article2338689/singlepage/#articlecontent)
Israel and Iran: at war in the shadows
patrick martin

An apparent attempted bombing in Bangkok Tuesday lent greater credence to the belief that Iran lies behind a wave of bombings apparently directed at Israeli targets.

A series of explosions in the centre of the Thai capital led police to two men, identified as Iranians, who had rented a house where the first blast took place. One of the men, captured as he attempted to evade police, was seriously wounded when he attempted to throw a grenade. The second was arrested at the airport as he tried to board a flight.


The Bangkok blasts came on the heels of a bombing in New Delhi on Monday that injured the wife of an Israeli diplomat and an attempt against Israeli embassy staff in Tiblisi that failed when the bomb was discovered and defused. Israeli leaders have been quick to blame Iran for them all.

“The attempted terrorist attack in Bangkok proves once again that Iran and its proxies continue to perpetrate terror,” said Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak on a visit to Singapore.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described Tehran on Monday as the “largest exporter of terrorism in the world.”

Iran has denied involvement in any of the incidents.

But in the murky world of espionage, terrorism and “special ops,” few things are crystal clear, and this week’s bombings are no exception.

If Iran carried out or ordered the attacks in an effort to avenge a series of assassinations of Iranian nuclear personnel it believes were carried out by Israel and to deter such assassinations in the future, it failed miserably.

“The wife of the [military] attaché who sustained moderate injuries and a bomb that was defused certainly cannot be weighed against the series of assassinations [of Iranians] that has been attributed to Israel,” wrote Yoav Limor, security analyst for Israel Hayom, an Israeli newspaper close to Mr. Netanyahu.

With the score yet to be evened up, Israel hasn’t seen the end of such attacks. Iran and its Lebanese protege Hezbollah will continue to seek Israeli targets, Mr. Limor concluded.

“The moment that there is a chance to kill a senior Israeli, a security official or a diplomat, or even a group of travellers, it is unlikely that anyone in Beirut or Tehran will recoil from giving the green light,” he wrote.

A similar analysis by the Israeli government prompted a heightened security alert for Israeli officials around the world. For the next several days, Israeli representatives abroad have been ordered not to travel in their official vehicles.

But if Iran is behind the attacks, it has to be very careful.

It must select a target important enough to avenge its scientist “martyrs” and to deter further attacks – a senior Israeli diplomat or prominent scientist, perhaps – but, in the current climate of tension between Israel and Iran, its response must not be of the kind that would trigger large-scale retaliation by Israel.

The same goes for Hezbollah, the militant Lebanese Shia organization sponsored by Iran. If it has been seeking to avenge the assassination of Imad Mughniyeh, a Hezbollah leader killed by a car bomb in Damascus in a 2008 attack widely believed to have been carried out by Israel, then Monday’s bombing attempts were not sufficient either. And it, too, must proceed with caution.

Gone are the days of 1992, when Hezbollah leader Abbas Musawi was killed by Israeli helicopter gunships and the response was a car bomb attack on the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires that killed 29 people. Such an action today could easily trigger a much wider conflagration.

So, too, could the kind of attack planned by Iran and Hezbollah three years ago in Azerbaijan. In that case, agents from the two parties reportedly planned a multi-pronged attack against Israeli targets, including the embassy and the El Al airline office, as well as American military assets. But foreign espionage agencies were tipped to a massive cache of explosives and weapons.

That attempt may have failed, but as Alex Fishman, security analyst for the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper, notes, “It showed that when the Iranians want to organize a large-scale terror attack, they have the means to do so.”

All of which could explain why such low-value targets were hit on Monday.

To be sure, Iran did vow revenge against Israel when the most recent murder of one of its nuclear scientists was carried out last month in Tehran (in an operation very similar to Monday’s New Delhi blast), something the Israeli leadership must have contemplated when it ordered the Iranian assassinations, if indeed Israel did carry them out. So it’s not unreasonable for Israel to conclude that Iran was responsible for Monday’s bombings.

But that does not mean that the bombings, at least the one in New Delhi, were in fact committed by Iran.

Ajai Sahni, India’s foremost expert on security issues and director of the Institute for Conflict Management, said that while there is “some credible circumstantial evidence” that points toward Iranian involvement – such as the similarity of the bomb to those used in previous attacks linked to Iran and the simultaneous attempted bombing in Georgia – the near-instant attribution of the attack to Iran by the Israeli government was “almost too pat” and raises serious questions.

For one thing, Iran’s relationship with India is too critically important for Tehran to sanction violence in India. “This is the worst conceivable time for Iran,” Mr. Sahni said. “The Iranians are strategic terrorists – they try to secure specific strategic objectives through terrorism – but nothing here seems to fit into that pattern.”

India, he noted, has consistently resisted pressure from the West to cut off trade with Iran because of the nuclear issue, and has defended Iran at the UN Security Council. As well, India is a huge importer of Iranian oil.

“India is the most unlikely target for Iran,” Mr. Sahni said. “It’s highly unlikely an Iranian would have come here and executed the attack – even if a nexus emerges with Iran, they will have used a local cadre.”

Mohamed Marandi, a professor of political science at the University of Tehran currently visiting the American University of Beirut, agreed. “Even if Iran wanted to carry out such acts, India would be the last place it would choose to carry one out.”

Iranians, Mr. Marandi said, view the New Delhi attack as a clumsy attempt to drive a wedge between their country and India. “Someone wants India to join the embargo on Iranian oil,” he said.

Mr. Marandi, who was born in the United States after his parents, critics of the Shah of Iran, had taken refuge there, denounced Mr. Netanyahu for characterizing Iran as an exporter of terrorism.

“Iranians have actually been murdered,” he said, referring to the large number of Iranian nuclear personnel killed over the past four years. “But no Israelis have been killed. Just who is the terrorist state?”

Mr. Marandi suggested that Israel and the United States, “egged on by countries such as Canada,” are attempting to strangle Iran. “If things continue on this path a violent confrontation is more likely,” he said. “What do you expect?”

Shortly after last month’s assassination of Iranian nuclear scientist Mustafa Ahmadi Roshan, Avner Cohen, an Israeli analyst at the University of California's Monterey Institute of International Studies, wrote of his concerns over an apparent pattern of foreign policy by assassination.

He noted that “Israel's official response to news of the assassination was a deafening silence. The unofficial response was a wink.”

The Israeli public, Mr. Cohen said, “did not question the wisdom of assassinating the Iranian scientists.”

“In Israeli culture, which sanctifies security,” he wrote, “such questions are seen as treason. If the hit was successful – the scientist was eliminated and the assassins disappeared – you don't ask questions.

“But do such killings do real damage to Iran's nuclear program?” asked Mr. Cohen, author of The Worst-Kept Secret: Israel's Bargain with the Bomb.

“Not only will killing individuals fail to significantly delay the project or cause its leaders to dial back their political and strategic goals, it will almost certainly have the opposite effect,” Mr. Cohen concluded. “It will only add to Iran's determination to carry on.

“And to keep their scientists from becoming demoralized, the Iranians will do everything possible to make good on their promise of revenge.”

[ilovebacon]

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=exvfLtWm0cw)
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