[dinosaur]

Global BC | B.C. residents back death penalty, new poll suggests (http://www.globaltvbc.com/bc+residents+back+death+penalty+new+poll+suggests/6442576671/story.html)

I wonder what is reason people are changing their mind? Maybe the Pickton case?

I would think that people would begin to lean this was when they do not think a life sentence for a serial killer is enough...

Not that I ever think Canada would change legislation, but it is something I guess people think about.

[murd0c]

I think its great and for someone to rapes and murders a child or of course the picton case it's better then them sitting in prison the rest of their life. Only for extreme cases tho

[Phil@rise]

I think people are changing their tunes cus they are tired of dangerous repeat offenders bein reseased back into their feeding grounds after serving meager sentences.

[unit]

the moment cases come up where people are proven innocent after they are executed (or widely believed to be victims of an injustice like todd willingham), we may look to overturn it once again.

[taylor192]

I think its changing population demographics. Recent immigrants are from countries with the death penalty.

I'm OK with it for those who will never be rehabilitated. Sex offenders top that list, as they have the smallest chance of reintegrating into society. Murderers OTOH actually have a high chance of reintegrating into society, as many murders are crimes of passion and have little ties to underlying personality traits.

[StylinRed]

So much research over the years goes against the death penalty from our prime example the USA, who themselves have basically done away with the Death Penalty, and yet people are mulling over it? seems like conservative propaganda to become more in tune with the USA as Harper so loves...

it would be a major step backwards for us.. even to consider it seems archaic

[belka]

Probably cheaper to kill a murderer than to keep them fed, sheltered, alive for the remainder of their lives.

[StylinRed]

Probably cheaper to kill a murderer than to keep them fed, sheltered, alive for the remainder of their lives.

it isnt though its actually more expensive to kill them

there've been studies that showed this even one of the more prominent "hanging judges" have said so


posted a link recently for someone who said the same thing might still be in the first couple pages or just google it

[belka]

it isnt though its actually more expensive to kill them

there've been studies that showed this even one of the more prominent "hanging judges" have said so


posted a link recently for someone who said the same thing might still be in the first couple pages or just google it

I'm more of a 5 cent bullet to the head type of guy.

[Soundy]

the moment cases come up where people are proven innocent after they are executed (or widely believed to be victims of an injustice like todd willingham), we may look to overturn it once again.
They were talking about this on NW the other day, and this argument came up time and again... except if we're talking about reserving it for only the most heinous wastes of skin - the Picktons, Olsons, etc. - I mean, the chance of someone being wrongly convicted of THAT MANY mass murders is so miniscule, it's ridiculous.

[unit]

i totally agree, but its the drawing of the line thats the hard part.

[Great68]

In my opinion, if we sentance one innocent person to the death penalty then we all become murderers.

[ilvtofu]

Probably cheaper to kill a murderer than to keep them fed, sheltered, alive for the remainder of their lives.

The people on death row spend years in prison trying to appeal their sentence etc. and it costs more in legal fees than to just leave a guy in prison. Makes more sense to sentence a guy to life in prison to keep them off the street

If there was empirical evidence that the death sentence reduced crime rates I'd be for it, but that isn't the case. Keep in mind that serious offenders don't adhere to the same thinking 99.9% of the population does and a death sentence is not going to scare them straight.

[Glove]

one way ticket to afghanistan or Israel,

Thatl learn em

[StylinRed]

They were talking about this on NW the other day, and this argument came up time and again... except if we're talking about reserving it for only the most heinous wastes of skin - the Picktons, Olsons, etc. - I mean, the chance of someone being wrongly convicted of THAT MANY mass murders is so miniscule, it's ridiculous.

that case is a tricky one as there is a belief (even among the jury) that others were involved in the murders to what degree? i dont know but hearsay suggests some wild stories on that involvement (european crime syndicate/hostel movie type facility) but none of that was explored and the buck just stopped there it almost seemed like those involved didn't want to probe it further

tin foil hats aside i cant help but wonder if there are more deserving of that $0.05 bullet as belka put it

[dinosaur]

I agree with a lot of the above.

We have to define the purpose of the death penalty: Is it a deterrent? or, is it a punishment?

I think research will show that using the death penalty is a deterrent does not work. I understand that promoting capital punishment as a punishment to the public can make it very attractive in some cases.

Would the majority of Canadians have wanted to see Olson hung by his balls and rot, sure. But, thankfully, how often does that happen? Same with Pickton.

I agree with Taylor192 (shockingly-haha) that I do think it is the influx of immigrants coming to Canada from countries that currently have capital punishment for the reason that poll shows what it shows.

Do I personally want the death penalty re-instated? No....my reason? I have tons, but briefly: morally, economically, and potential errors in evidence (human error, etc).

[melloman]

Death penalty or make them work to pay their bills for keeping them in prison?

http://filmandfelt.com/musings/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/CHainGang1.jpg

[Great68]

Murderers OTOH actually have a high chance of reintegrating into society, as many murders are crimes of passion and have little ties to underlying personality traits.

I agree with this, from personal experience. A little while ago I found out that one of the employees in my company was convicted of manslaughter in his past for killing someone in a fight (Punches dude in face, dude goes down, hits head on ground and dies kind of thing).

I was pretty shocked and couldn't believe it when I heard it, because he didn't give me the slightest suspicion that he could have done something like that EVER. He's a pretty nice guy.

[dinosaur]

I'm cool with chain-gangs.

[MindBomber]

Probably cheaper to kill a murderer than to keep them fed, sheltered, alive for the remainder of their lives.

I'm more of a 5 cent bullet to the head type of guy.

I don't think you understand the basis behind the cost of an execution.

The cost associated with the death penalty is not the execution itself; the execution only amounts to an expense of a few thousand dollars, whether through lethal injection or a "five cent bullet to the head" as you suggested. The cost is in the ten year or longer legal process post-conviction, a separate trial for the death penalty followed by a series of mandatory appeals by the defense.

California spends $250 million a year pursuing the death penalty, the average death sentence costing $25 million.

If instead of maintaining the death penalty, California could hire 1000 new police officers. What would make more of a difference?

[TheKingdom2000]

the moment cases come up where people are proven innocent after they are executed (or widely believed to be victims of an injustice like todd willingham), we may look to overturn it once again.

I think the death penalty in Canada would work a lot better.
Only because we are honestly little bitches in regards to handing out sentences.

I'm pretty sure if we had the death penalty, it would only happen be handed out to those extreme cases.
I mean right now you can kill someone (2nd degree) and get off in three years.
So I don't think we would abuse it much here in Canada.

[toyobaru]

I was waiting for someone to bring upon this topic.

I strongly support the death penalty. I strongly support it for the fact of serial killers and repeat sexual predators. Our justice system gives our criminals too many rights. When one decides he is above the law and and order why does he still get treated as a human being. We give these killers too much luxury with a warm place to stay and food, something they probably are not used to. We waste too many money on trials, for example the Picton case hes been convicted of what... 26+ deaths already? and still running him a trial? With the death penalty we could rid our streets of repeat offenders who put our loved ones lives at risk. If a person would kill one, then two what makes you think theyd stop there? I understand with the death penalty there is potential for wrong conviction. But I'm just saying for the repeat offenders, not the one time kill I. I do have faith in the better of man that he will change. I hope they bring it back.

[dinosaur]

I was waiting for someone to bring upon this topic.


I was hesitant as I don't want this to turn into fight club.

[toyobaru]

I was hesitant as I don't want this to turn into fight club.

I dont think theres much too fight about on this topic. Like the above posts I think we as citizens are tired of hearing repeat offenders getting released into public only to have them reconvict.

[Phil@rise]

I don't think you understand the basis behind the cost of an execution.

The cost associated with the death penalty is not the execution itself; the execution only amounts to an expense of a few thousand dollars, whether through lethal injection or a "five cent bullet to the head" as you suggested. The cost is in the ten year or longer legal process post-conviction, a separate trial for the death penalty followed by a series of mandatory appeals by the defense.

California spends $250 million a year pursuing the death penalty, the average death sentence costing $25 million.

If instead of maintaining the death penalty, California could hire 1000 new police officers. What would make more of a difference?
What would 1000 new officers do? Theres no where to put the criminals they catch.

[MindBomber]

I dont think theres much too fight about on this topic. Like the above posts I think we as citizens are tired of hearing repeat offenders getting released into public only to have them reconvict.

Cite examples of the repeat offenders you are referring too, please. Specifically, individuals who could have been sentenced to death for a crime, but were given a traditional sentence and when released committed another heinous crime.

[drunkrussian]

what if your father or son killed someone, went to prison for life and immediately changed his ways, and was an amazing person. Should he be released back to society? Maybe not. Should he be killed? I personally don't think so.

our justice system is messed up in that if you commit a serious crime you should not be out in a few years, but in BC you may be. With that said, I think no human should have the right to kill another human, and the death penalty is killing a human. With THAT said, jail overcrowding and taxpayer money going towards prisons can become a serious issue. But according to both this article and countlesssources i've seen, it's actually sometimes as expensive to kill someone - you have to go through so much hassle that 25+ years is what it normall ytakes in teh states to finally kill someone. that's 25+ years of your money for them to stay in jail that time. So what's the point?

I don't get why criminals can't have a choice. An option for assisted suicide would make everything so much easier.

[MindBomber]

What would 1000 new officers do? Theres no where to put the criminals they catch.

1000 Police officers to:
Man road blocks and catch drunk drivers...
Work with at risk teens and steer them down another path...
Create a presence to deter crime before it happens...

[Hondaracer]

whats wrong with the system is "life" is never "life" you kill a man in the first degree and get out in 20 years? hmm..

my #1 beef by far is with gun crime, people bitch and complain about shootings etc. cops continue to say that the public is at risk etc. yet people in possesion of loaded unregistered handguns are processed and released back into public to have a case thrown out or run out of time to be processed before they ever see any sort of REAL punishment?

imo any gun crime should be a 2 strike process, especially with handguns [considering no one commits crimes with long-rifles basically..] if your found with an unregistered hand gun, give them whatever, a month in jail, a week, whatever

if your found AGAIN with a unregistered handgun, 10 years

it's pretty simple and imo it wouldnt be that big of a deal to do, unless of course you are ok with people who have no other intention to use a handgun other than to cause bodily harm to another person running around time and time again

[wstce92]

what if your father or son killed someone, went to prison for life and immediately changed his ways, and was an amazing person. Should he be released back to society? Maybe not. Should he be killed? I personally don't think so.

our justice system is messed up in that if you commit a serious crime you should not be out in a few years, but in BC you may be. With that said, I think no human should have the right to kill another human, and the death penalty is killing a human. With THAT said, jail overcrowding and taxpayer money going towards prisons can become a serious issue. But according to both this article and countlesssources i've seen, it's actually sometimes as expensive to kill someone - you have to go through so much hassle that 25+ years is what it normall ytakes in teh states to finally kill someone. that's 25+ years of your money for them to stay in jail that time. So what's the point?

I don't get why criminals can't have a choice. An option for assisted suicide would make everything so much easier.

If it was premeditated murder. Aka my father, son, brother, best friend intentionally went out to kill someone. I don't care if he changed his ways before the cops even arrived to arrest him, I'd be the first one in line to put a bullet in his head.

If you're going to act like an animal, then society should treat you as one.

It infuriates me that people who murder, rape, molest, with intent; are treated so well.
The absolute minimum of their punishment should be what they've done to their victims.

[Hondaracer]

when you completely fuck up a persons life through a rape etc. that victim will never be the same

when you fuck up entire families via murder etc. those families will never be the same

some guy getting out after 15 years or less for heinous crimes probably doesnt think twice about actions that destroy other peoples entire lives.

[Soundy]

We have to define the purpose of the death penalty: Is it a deterrent? or, is it a punishment?

I think research will show that using the death penalty is a deterrent does not work. I understand that promoting capital punishment as a punishment to the public can make it very attractive in some cases.
I wouldn't promote as either, specifically... but if you have the Olson or Pickton who will never have a hope of ever going free because of the sheer scope of their crimes and the extreme chance that they'll re-offend... what's the benefit to anyone (including them) of keeping them alive in a little brick cage?

Further, look at the recent bullshit around the "faint hope clause" and Olson insisting on his parole hearings despite there being less than zero chance of it ever being granted - the whole remainder of his existence seemed to be with the sole cause of slapping the families of his victims repeatedly in the face. How can anyone make the case that it was a good thing for him to be kept alive as long as he was? How much pain and suffering could have been spared dozens of families if he'd just been shanked in prison three decades ago?

It's not a point of punishment or retribution or deterrent, but simply a matter of doing it for the good of society.

I agree with this, from personal experience. A little while ago I found out that one of the employees in my company was convicted of manslaughter in his past for killing someone in a fight (Punches dude in face, dude goes down, hits head on ground and dies kind of thing).

I was pretty shocked and couldn't believe it when I heard it, because he didn't give me the slightest suspicion that he could have done something like that EVER. He's a pretty nice guy.
But again, this isn't the sort of thing that should ever be CONSIDERED for the death penalty. It shouldn't even enter into the conversation for anything short of the most extreme multiple-first-degree convictions. Even a single first-degree murder conviction shouldn't be enough unless it involves something truly horrendous (we're talking Hannibal Lecter horrendous).

[MindBomber]

I wouldn't promote as either, specifically... but if you have the Olson or Pickton who will never have a hope of ever going free because of the sheer scope of their crimes and the extreme chance that they'll re-offend... what's the benefit to anyone (including them) of keeping them alive in a little brick cage?

Further, look at the recent bullshit around the "faint hope clause" and Olson insisting on his parole hearings despite there being less than zero chance of it ever being granted - the whole remainder of his existence seemed to be with the sole cause of slapping the families of his victims repeatedly in the face. How can anyone make the case that it was a good thing for him to be kept alive as long as he was? How much pain and suffering could have been spared dozens of families if he'd just been shanked in prison three decades ago?

A serial killer does no good sitting in a little box waiting for death, but he also does no harm if sentenced without the possibility of parole. The cost of a DS trial and appeal is spared with a life sentence, and that can be put towards something worthwhile as I mentioned above.

[Soundy]

A serial killer does no good sitting in a little box waiting for death, but he also does no harm if sentenced without the possibility of parole.
Olson continued to taunt and torment his victims' families from prison, pretty much for the duration of his miserable life.

[MindBomber]

Olson continued to taunt and torment his victims' families from prison, pretty much for the duration of his miserable life.

How?

Outside of the parole hearings that were attended by the family, of course.

[MelonBoy]

I honestly think forced labour would be a better alternative then the death sentence.. Just make all those bastards in prison work for there food and living expenses... hell even make some profit from there labour.. (chinese sweat factory style)

[Soundy]

How?

Outside of the parole hearings that were attended by the family, of course.

He wrote and released at least one book, and also had several letters published in newspapers through the years. And then there was the whole fiasco with him after several year in jail of taking money to tell the police where the bodies were...

[Bouncing Bettys]

No justice system in the world has ever and likely will never sufficiently demonstrate a 100% fool-proof system. Wrongful convictions happen all the time. People are imperfect and will get things wrong. I guess I just value life too greatly to ever support the death penalty. If even one innocent person is put to death, its not worth it to me.

[FishTaco]

one way ticket to afghanistan or Israel,

Thatl learn em

:seriously:

[drunkrussian]

one way ticket to afghanistan or Israel,

Thatl learn em

israel is quite nice and leads the free world in many things such as quality of education
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[Phil@rise]

1000 Police officers to:
Man road blocks and catch drunk drivers...
Work with at risk teens and steer them down another path...
Create a presence to deter crime before it happens...

deterence requires consequence

would havin four pushover parents while growin up kept you from lying more then two that would kick your ass for doing so?

[MindBomber]

deterence requires consequence

would havin four pushover parents while growin up kept you from lying more then two that would kick your ass for doing so?

A parenting example doesn't really work, when a child is growing up they have a relatively narrow understanding of acceptable behavior and look to an authority figure to provide them with consequences. At that point, deterrence works. A criminal understands the difference between right and wrong and has made the conscious decision to ignore it, regardless of the consequences.

Texas has one of the highest crime rates in the United States, it also executes hundreds of people per year. Do you think having capital punishment as a deterrent prevents crime in Texas?

[ilovebacon]

No one deserves to die, they just gotta pay the price thru jail time imo. You don't see cops brutality get any punishments beside suspended with or without paid. What if they threw some guy to the chair who was 100% innocent but didn have enuff evidence?? Like that person that they threw in jail but let him go afterwards finding out that he's not at fault
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[Psykopathik]

how about this as a way of a death penalty....lock him in a plexiglass room with no food and and a knife. he can either kill himself or slowly starve to death, or maybe press a button and gas chamber himself. that way no one's hands get dirty.

[achiam]

I think the death penalty should be carried out immediately (no death row), but only if guilt is absolutely, totally proven - e.g. a gangster assassin, obviously serial killers, and other cases where the guilt is like 1000%.

For career criminal idiots who commit other lesser crimes, we need to do away with the correctional system and build forced labor death camps in the Yukon tundra 2000 miles away from the nearest town where escape would mean obvious freezing to death. Here the inmates would be strapped to an assembly line making Blackberries and miscellaneous goods sold at Canadian Tire 12 hours/day in exchange for food while listening to non stop government propaganda blasting from loudspeakers. The idea would be to completely destroy their psychological health and convert them into drones as obedient as my iRobot Roomba vacuum, which is pretty fucking useless, I might add.

[Soundy]

For career criminal idiots who commit other lesser crimes, we need to do away with the correctional system and build forced labor death camps in the Yukon tundra 2000 miles away from the nearest town where escape would mean obvious freezing to death. Here the inmates would be strapped to an assembly line making Blackberries and miscellaneous goods sold at Canadian Tire 12 hours/day in exchange for food while listening to non stop government propaganda blasting from loudspeakers. The idea would be to completely destroy their psychological health and convert them into drones as obedient as my iRobot Roomba vacuum, which is pretty fucking useless, I might add.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YFbXKOW1NoQ/TE-kr1Fm4hI/AAAAAAAADuQ/l2Cd1EbuGaE/s400/Colonel+Saito+Bridge+on+The+River+Kwai.jpg