[Death2Theft]

Whats scary is that they dont have the crazy lowermainland style costs of living and they still can't move out. Most of these guys can't even afford 500$ rent.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/why-are-record-numbers-of-young-adults-jobless-and-living-at-home-with-mom-and-dad
In the United States today, unemployment among those age 18 to age 34 is at epidemic levels and the number of young adults that are now living at home with Mom and Dad is at an all-time high. So why are so many of our young adults jobless? Why are record numbers of them unable or unwilling to move out on their own? Well, there are quite a few factors at work. Number one, our education system has completely and totally failed them. As I have written about previously, our education system is a joke and most high school graduates these days are simply not prepared to function at even a very basic level in our society. In addition, college education in the United States has become a giant money making scam that leaves scores of college graduates absolutely drowning in debt. Many young adults end up moving back in with Mom and Dad because they are drowning in so much debt that there are no other options. Thirdly, the number of good jobs continues to decline and this is hitting younger Americans the hardest. Millions of young people enter the workforce excited about the future only to find that there are hordes of applicants for the very limited number of decent jobs that are actually available. So all of this is creating an environment where more young adults are financially dependent on their parents that ever before in modern American history.

Since the start of the recession, the percentage of young adults in America that are employed has dropped like a rock. In 2007, the employment rate for Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 was 62.4 percent. Today, it is down to 54.3 percent.

Yes, there are certainly many out there that are lazy, but the truth is that most of them would like to work if they could. It is just that it is much harder to find a job these days.

And it isn't just young people that think that the job market has gotten tougher. According to one recent survey, 82 percent of all Americans believe that it is harder for young adults to find jobs today than it was for their parents to find jobs.

But if they cannot get jobs, then young adults cannot financially support themselves. So more of them than ever are heading back home to live with Mom and Dad.

In the year 2000, 8.3 percent of all American women between the ages of 25 and 34 were living at home with their parents. Today, that figure is up to 9.7 percent.

In the year 2000, 12.9 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 34 were living at home with their parents. Today, that figure is up to an astounding 18.6 percent.

Take a moment and let those statistics sink in.

Nearly one out of every five American men from age 25 to age 34 are living at home with Mommy and Daddy.

When you look at Americans age 18 to age 24, it is even worse. Among Americans age 18 to age 24, 50 percent of all women and 59 percent of all men still live with their parents.

Those are very frightening numbers.

Part of this has to do with a fundamental cultural shift. An increasing number of parents these days expect that they will have to take care of their own children beyond the age of 22. The following is from a recent article by Pew Research....

When asked in a 1993 survey what age children should be financially independent from their parents, 80% of parents said children have to be self-reliant by age 22. In the current survey, only 67% of parents say children have to be financially independent by age 22—a drop of 13 percentage points.
But what accounts for the tremendous gender disparity that we see in the figures above?

Well, one major factor is that young women are now far more likely to pursue a college education than young men are. According to an article in the New York Times, women now account for approximately 57 percent of all enrollments at U.S. colleges and universities.

The less education you have, the more likely you are to be unemployed in America today. So that is certainly a significant factor.

But many that have gone on to college are also moving back home. When you are a young adult with no job and no prospects and you are swamped with tens of thousands of dollars of student loan debt, it can be incredibly difficult to be financially independent.

After adjusting for inflation, U.S. college students are now borrowing about twice as much money as they did a decade ago. Many students that go on to graduate school end up with more than $100,000 in total student loan debt.

Sadly, those degrees often do not pay off. In fact, in America today one-third of all college graduates end up taking jobs that don't even require college degrees.

So what does all of this mean?

It means that there are millions upon millions of angry, disillusioned and frustrated young adults out there today. A recent USA Today article told the story of 32-year-old Dennis Hansen....

After a year without work, Hansen, 32, was hired to monitor Lake Michigan and Lake Superior water for the state and federal governments over two summers. He also had short stints as a census worker and as an extra post office hand during one holiday crush.

It hasn't been enough: Hansen says he has a $13,000 credit card debt and that's just for basics — his $600 monthly mortgage, heat and food.

"It's definitely a roller coaster," Hansen says, with the ups coming when he's done well in a job interview and the downs when there's a rejection: "That's when I'm frustrated, angry and wondering why I went to college for 10 years."
If the economy was humming along on all cylinders, it would be easy to blame our young adults for being too lazy.

But these days most young adults have to scramble like crazy just to get a really low paying job. Large numbers of very talented young adults are waiting tables, flipping burgers or stocking shelves at Wal-Mart.

And this reality is reflected in the overall economic statistics. Since the year 2000, incomes for U.S. households led by someone between the ages of 25 and 34 have fallen by about 12 percent after you adjust for inflation.

The "wealth gap" between younger Americans and older Americans is also growing and recently hit a new all-time high. U.S. households led by someone 65 years of age or older are now 47 times wealthier than U.S. households led by someone 35 years of age or younger.

But this is not good for our society. When there is civil unrest, it is not those 65 and older that take to the streets.

We desperately need our economy to get healthy again so that our young adults can get good jobs, get married, set up households, raise families and be productive members of society.

Instead, the percentage of young adults that have jobs is near an all-time low, the percentage of young adults living with their parents is at an all-time high, the proportion of adults in the United States that are married is at an all-time low and we have hordes of angry, frustrated young adults with plenty of time on their hands.

You don't have to be a genius to see trouble on the horizon.

What is going to happen when the next major financial crisis comes and the economy gets significantly worse than it is now?

In the end, we are going to reap what we have sown. We have fundamentally failed our young adults, and those failures are going to produce some very bitter fruit.

[Gh0stRider]

geez $13k debt

[twitchyzero]

it's not fair to compare them to young adults in Vancouver despite higher cost of living here.

1. tuition is much higher than their Canadian counterpart
2. as a much larger consumer-based society....they generally got a bigger blow from the economic recession

[Ronin]

It's really not that bad in Canada. Not a whole lot changed up here while the States imploded.

[taylor192]

it's not fair to compare them to young adults in Vancouver despite higher cost of living here.

1. tuition is much higher than their Canadian counterpart
2. as a much larger consumer-based society....they generally got a bigger blow from the economic recession
1. Is a myth. If you stay in state, tuition in the US isn't that bad. Its only the big name schools that people go out of state to attend where it costs a small fortune.
2. Is incorrect. Our economy is just as consumer driven as our neighbours to the south.

It's really not that bad in Canada. Not a whole lot changed up here while the States imploded.
Australia said the same thing, yet they are currently starting to implode cause consumer debt hit record levels along with house prices - while unemployment never recovered from the global recession.

Its not that bad in Canada, yet.

[sh0n]

It's the same in Vancouver but on a larger scale.

Last I saw, housing is not cheap!!!

[twitchyzero]

1. Is a myth. If you stay in state, tuition in the US isn't that bad. Its only the big name schools that people go out of state to attend where it costs a small fortune.
2. Is incorrect. Our economy is just as consumer driven as our neighbours to the south.


do you know where I can find the stats showing how many students stay in state?

I think even if you take our smaller population into account, we still are not as consumer-heavy as our American friends. The price-gouging happens for a reason.

[taylor192]

do you know where I can find the stats showing how many students stay in state?
Nope, yet I anticipate its quite high as the cost of tuition can double or more going out of state.

I think even if you take our smaller population into account, we still are not as consumer-heavy as our American friends. The price-gouging happens for a reason.
I don't think, I know.

Both economies are ~70% consumer driven. If consumers stop spending, we're fucked.

The American economy imploded when debt/income ratios reached a tipping point. Americans could nolonger afford to buy more crap on credit and pulled back, and the 70% of their economy dependent on consumer spending too a massive hit. Our debt/income ratios didn't rise as fast, yet are now pushing against those limits.

Mortgage brokers are already cutting into their own commissions to buy lower rates for customers, cause they know buyers are drying up as people don't has as much to spend.

https://www.mapleleafmetals.ca/media/wysiwyg/Chart_23.jpg
http://www.humbervalleyrealty.ca/wp-content/uploads/HouseholdDebt2Income.png

[drunkrussian]

this makes me so sad. this is the reason why i never agreed with students here protesting tuition costs...we have it so goddamn good compared to americans and international students. When useful educated individuals can't find work and wait tables that really breaks my heart

studentscould have a strict spending poilcy, attend school in-state, and live at home while going to school...but it's their culture that's the problem. They have a culture of borrowed money - their parents pay for everything and live on borrowed money. So when it comes to expensive schooling loans are the only option, as the parents are in debt, and the students spend what little money they do have from working, on toys. They also go to school out of state, and live in rez, because they need to "experience" college. Many canadians, or at least vancouverites, go to school that's closest from their parents house, where they live.

But with this competitive market in the us, is going to a local shitty community school and living at home going to get you even a chance at a job? With the already competitive market, do you need to spend ridiculous money on a high-end school, to even have a shot at not being a janitor? The cyclical nature of this is the saddest part - you need to incur debt on college to even have a shot at a job which you'll spend paying it off. Going to a community college just means less debt, and no shot at paying it off.

[Death2Theft]

You mean aside from our household debt/income level climbing to almost higher than the US?
It's really not that bad in Canada. Not a whole lot changed up here while the States imploded.

[Armind]

I'm a victim. FML man. :okay:

[Liquid_o2]

I think one the problems a lot of students have is that they decide to do 5-10 years of school but don't gain much work experience during that time. Then when they are done school finally, they come into the workforce and expect to be handed a 50k job within their field which is false for many industries.

I finished my BA, worked in the field for 3.5 years and then went back to grad school. I feel I will have a much better chance when I graduate due to the fact I have a good education PLUS real world experience, multiple internships, etc.

[quasi]

It's all about networking. My dad always told me it was who you know not what you know but I kind of thought it was BS. I then got laid off and thought no problem I'll take some time off and then find something when I'm ready, I had a hell of a time finding a job mind you I was trying to find work doing something different then what I had been doing.

After months and months of some interview that didn't pan out and no good leads I called up someone I knew who was in the same industry I had left. Long story short I have a job right away doing something different but in the same industry. When I think about my friends almost everyone of them knew someone where they are employed now.

An education is a great addition to your resume but it alone isn't enough most the time unless you're doing something very technical or you know somebody who can help you get your foot in the door. Experience and a good network will trump an education almost everytime.

[Gridlock]

I alternate between 2 things with student loans.

I know that the year after I graduated, I signed up to go to business school. I was hearded through a line like sheep to sign up for a fat check to pay for the whole thing. I had no idea what the payment terms were, interest or anything. Stand in this line to pay your rent.

Ok.

So I get how it happens.

BUT...you can't blame anyone but yourself.

My favorite thing when I talk to a student is, after they tell me they go to xyz taking abc is "what do you want to do?"

Umm...I dunno.

does "umm...I dunno" pay well? They have good work hours at "umm I dunno"?

and the key question...how much debt are you willing to go into to work at "I dunno"?

When I finally went back to school I at least knew what I wanted to do at that time. I worked in the field, and then questioned myself everyday on "you went, and paid money and sacrificed making money, for THIS."

I get that there are people that figure it out and come up with something on graduation. I guess the key question is: are you one of those people?

[taylor192]

I think one the problems a lot of students have is that they decide to do 5-10 years of school but don't gain much work experience during that time. Then when they are done school finally, they come into the workforce and expect to be handed a 50k job within their field which is false for many industries.
Why wouldn't they? That's what they have been told.

Why would anyone pay $10K/yr (tuition + books + expenses) to attend school without expecting a return on that investment day 1 when graduating? If people knew the actually return on their investment, post secondary enrolment rates would drop - yet instead people continue to preach the same lies that post secondary education is the path to riches.

[optiblue]

Why wouldn't they? That's what they have been told.

Why would anyone pay $10K/yr (tuition + books + expenses) to attend school without expecting a return on that investment day 1 when graduating? If people knew the actually return on their investment, post secondary enrolment rates would drop - yet instead people continue to preach the same lies that post secondary education is the path to riches.

Right on the money! I have friends who finished engineering degrees which they went into only because they did their hw and that field at the time had jobs while regular sciences = mall jobs. They've graduated from coop and have been waiting for something, but there's too many local grads! Pushing almost 2 years now :( Vancouer will soon hit that saturation point for many industries.
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[twitchyzero]

Vancouer will soon hit that saturation point for many industries.


as if that has not happened yet

[quasi]

Right on the money! I have friends who finished engineering degrees which they went into only because they did their hw and that field at the time had jobs while regular sciences = mall jobs. They've graduated from coop and have been waiting for something, but there's too many local grads! Pushing almost 2 years now :( Vancouer will soon hit that saturation point for many industries.
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I'd believe it, lots of structural engineers in Construction working for peanuts in entry level estimating jobs because they couldn't find anything else.

[unit]

thats sad, but its what people are forcefed by their parents and schools to do.
usually kids dont figure out what they really WANT to do until they're in their 20s.
by then they've already wasted 2-3 years minimum of irrelevant studies.
and in many cases its more like 5-10 years wasted or even more.

how the hell are you supposed to know what you want to do by the time you're 17 if you dont even truly know whats out there?
universities are made for cookie cutter careers. they just want your tuition money and they'll push you out the door.

[Mr.HappySilp]

It also depends on the degree and where u went to post secondary education.

I mean do you think you will actually get a decent job when you graduate form Coquitlam college or Sprott Shaw College? Get a post secondary education from an actually college first...........

Also do people actually expect to get a job when they took something like General Arts O_o? Take something useful.

Another issue is there are too many people going for the same job. Back with our parents there is like maybe 4 to 5 people going for 1job or less, now you have maybe 100+ people going for 1 job so yea getting a job is much much harder now.

Most people who have jobs are going to hold onto it till they can't work anymore due to the economy so if no one is leaving their position then less jobs out there. Is hard to find another job unless you got connections or lot's of work experience these days. Companies is also cutting back and rather then hiring a full time they chose to do contracts or part time to save cost.

It is happening in Canada lol. For those that disagree you are a fool. Is only going to get worse and worse. All I can say is spend less, save up your money and invest it.

[GabAlmighty]

Bunch of whiners.

geez $13k debt

Lol, is that a lot or something?

[ilovebacon]

Bunch of whiners.



Lol, is that a lot or something?

That's a lot to people who works min wages. Not Everyone is ballin like you.
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[GabAlmighty]

That's a lot to people who works min wages. Not Everyone is ballin like you.
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I work min wage:blush:... Oh no wait, I worked hard and got a job that's above min wage.

[Mr.HappySilp]

I work min wage:blush:... Oh no wait, I worked hard and got a job that's above min wage.

LOL do u happen to make $14 dallar! :IDL :IDL :IDL

[GabAlmighty]

LOL do u happen to make $14 dallar! :IDL :IDL :IDL

No...

[bengy]

Since student loans are backed by government, educational institutions will raise tuition prices. Why not right?

[unit]

I work min wage:blush:... Oh no wait, I worked hard and got a job that's above min wage.

really, you saw this thread as an opportunity to prop yourself up? :eekthumb:

[Everymans]

I alternate between 2 things with student loans.

I know that the year after I graduated, I signed up to go to business school. I was hearded through a line like sheep to sign up for a fat check to pay for the whole thing. I had no idea what the payment terms were, interest or anything. Stand in this line to pay your rent.

Ok.

So I get how it happens.

BUT...you can't blame anyone but yourself.

My favorite thing when I talk to a student is, after they tell me they go to xyz taking abc is "what do you want to do?"

Umm...I dunno.

does "umm...I dunno" pay well? They have good work hours at "umm I dunno"?

and the key question...how much debt are you willing to go into to work at "I dunno"?

When I finally went back to school I at least knew what I wanted to do at that time. I worked in the field, and then questioned myself everyday on "you went, and paid money and sacrificed making money, for THIS."

I get that there are people that figure it out and come up with something on graduation. I guess the key question is: are you one of those people?

I think the biggest factor in this huge clusterfuck is pressuring young people to get post secondary educations straight out of high school. No one knows what they want to do out of high school. You need 2-3 years of cushion space where you evaluate your life and get involved with the job market while living at home. Then when you finally realize what you are good at in the "Real world" then you can see what career path suits you best.

Speaking from a personal experience, after high school was finished I was in such a rush to get out of my shithole town and learn something that will get me somewhere interesting in life. I chose film school at a retardedly high 16,000$ a year(that's only tuition). I chose the wrong school, and the wrong subject I wanted to enter(I chose writing, I should have went to a 4 year program at a government uni so I could get more then a piece of paper and learn everything about film through school, instead of learning by myself.) I take full responsibility for my debt. But I've battled through a lot of non sense and sacrificed a hell of a lot, and got some lucky breaks, so that I could be living away from my parents in this ritzy neighborhood in one of the most expensive cities on earth.

Also, if you're going to go to school for something, make it count... If you're going to school to only "Learn" then go pick up a friggen book. Shit, half of the stuff you will learn from college is by being forced to read it out of a textbook.

[melloman]

I think the biggest factor in this huge clusterfuck is pressuring young people to get post secondary educations straight out of high school. No one knows what they want to do out of high school. You need 2-3 years of cushion space where you evaluate your life and get involved with the job market while living at home. Then when you finally realize what you are good at in the "Real world" then you can see what career path suits you best.

I'm sorry for your personal experiences yet I disagree with this..

From having 2 decisions in Grade 12.. going to BCIT and taking mech. engineering. dropping out after flunking 2 classes in first semester. then going into CAD design.. its been a up & down journey.

Then you have my brother who was 99% throughout HS, went to SFU for comp. sciences, flunked because he wasn't motivated and is now taking first year Accounting @ Douglas College at the age of 27.

If you start to REALISTICALLY think about what you might like to do in Grade 10/11 and try some of it out... you can always figure it out.
It's the attitude of "oh I want to take afew years off first" and then they don't go back to school for 5-8 years.. they get fucked over because that means they're also 26-28 when they are finally starting their degree.

Lots of "young adults" want to have fun and enjoy life... and don't think down the road into their 30's until its too late..:rukidding: then they fucking complain about debt and shit when "LIFE" hits them..


Fact: I'm 21 and I make 4x the wage my brother does going to school and working P/T.. he's 27.

[LiquidTurbo]

I work min wage:blush:... Oh no wait, I worked hard and got a job that's above min wage.

Jigga please. Anyone who attributes their end result purely as "hard work" are just as bad as the other extreme of "it's all luck" .
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[misteranswer]

That's just how things are. Here's a documentary on in from CBC.

CBC - Doc Zone - Episode - Generation Boomerang (http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episode/generation-boomerang.html)

[Hondaracer]

if 65% of the people who went through school to get some meaningless degree went into trades, everyone involved would be better off.

if youre smart enough to get a good degree, you have the ability to pick somthing you want to do, and will earn you a good living

if you have to pick and choose your degree due to course load, requirements, personal smarts, then your probably going to come out of school behind the people who just went to work and youre going to have less experiance

I know welders who havent read a book in 15 years making $140 an hour laughing at people with degrees working as office assistants.

[MindBomber]

I know welders who havent read a book in 15 years making $140 an hour laughing at people with degrees working as office assistants.

There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.

[Hondaracer]

There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.

you make assumptions that those people are unhappy in what they do

you say that now, yet alot of people with that same attitude are the same people always complaining about house prices, taxes, not getting a fair shake, etc.

Money cant buy happiness, but when money is somthing that is litterally always on ones mind, whether it be with debts, wishes, etc. it's the kind of thing that is typically better to have more of than less.

[taylor192]

There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.
I dunno, I'd love to have a monster truck and not enough smarts to stop me from doing stupid shit like this! :)

http://media.northjersey.com/images/0202F_monsterjam_NS_40p.jpg

[Mr.HappySilp]

you make assumptions that those people are unhappy in what they do

you say that now, yet alot of people with that same attitude are the same people always complaining about house prices, taxes, not getting a fair shake, etc.

Money cant buy happiness, but when money is somthing that is litterally always on ones mind, whether it be with debts, wishes, etc. it's the kind of thing that is typically better to have more of than less.

There is an old Chinese saying "Money can't happiness, but without money you can buy nothing." which is true. I rather have money since it can buy a lot of things I need in order to live.

[FerrariEnzo]

These young adults need to know what they want in life..

If all they do is want to party and smoke up, then they deserve nothing...
IF they study hard in WHAT they want to get into, they deserve the congrats...


Its the "taking 1-2 years off to work" that gets most people... they usually just end up work and holding off the studying later part..

[Great68]

I'll say that the better tradespeople are usually the ones with some post secondary education.

The ones who haven't picked up a book in 15 years usually show it, sometimes it would be easier to talk to an ape than to them.

[DsZ24]

if 65% of the people who went through school to get some meaningless degree went into trades, everyone involved would be better off.



Nah we don't need any more people getting into the trades, they'll just drive down the wages for all of us already in them :p

But yah even these days a lot of people still look down on the trades and think spending 4 years in university earning some kind of arts degree will put them in a better position in life. Just seems that so many people graduate from university/college and have very little life skills and still have no idea what they want to do.

[unit]

I'll say that the better tradespeople are usually the ones with some post secondary education.

The ones who haven't picked up a book in 15 years usually show it, sometimes it would be easier to talk to an ape than to them.

talking to some trades guys is a trade in itself. takes years to learn.

[Bonka]

Highschool does little to prepare students interested in looking at future career options and what kinds of careers are available, at least when I was in highschool. Low barriers to entry into post secondary yields all these graduates with essentially useless degrees scratching and clawing for the same handful of jobs. In my circle of friends, the ones who graduated ended up going back to their co-op for a job anyway.

Taking a year or two off to work is great for building independence but eventually many get to a point where they feel like the money they're making is adequate and many end up staying idle not willing to lose what they already have.

Unemployed grads living at home isn't so bad on a micro level. There are plenty of employed people out there still mooching at home.

[MindBomber]

you make assumptions that those people are unhappy in what they do

you say that now, yet alot of people with that same attitude are the same people always complaining about house prices, taxes, not getting a fair shake, etc.

Money cant buy happiness, but when money is somthing that is litterally always on ones mind, whether it be with debts, wishes, etc. it's the kind of thing that is typically better to have more of than less.

A person in the trades isn't by nature unhappy, so I wouldn't assume that.

If a persons motivations are so single mindedly financial that it defines what they choose as a career and in turn causes them to not pursue a true passion, I have little respect for them. Life is nothing more than a brief stint in a rat race, a fleating opportunity to seak out some degree of fufillment and happiness. A person whose goals are financial will never be fufilled, because there will always be something more expensive and better just out of reach.

I'll make less at thirty than I did at twenty, although in fairness I had a ridiculous salary at that age. Earning money didn't make me happy, because I always needed more. Every day at school and eventually in my career, I am fufilled by what I'm doing. Living modestly, not feeling the need to drive a new BMW I'll never be short on cash either.

My Mom wanted me to stay in my former career, pursue a sense of fufillment in my off hours and continue earning a very good living, but so many people in high paying jobs allow work to dominate their lives and I feared that would happen.

If a person is happy as a welder and that's what gives them fufillment, that's not who my statements are directed at. I just feel money has to much of an influence on people..
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[drunkrussian]

this whole conversation about trades is retarded, with the statement "a friend of mine in trades went through less education, works with his hands and makes more money than you". Woop-ti-doo, there are sales guys with only high school diplomas who bullshit their way to a $200,000+ salary everyday. You could give 1,000 examples like this, and none matter. At the end of the day, whether you make more money or less money, work with your hands or with your mind, as long as you're making a wage you can live on to your own standards, can grow in your career and learning, and actually enjoy what you do - you have a good job. This comparing career fields bs is one step above sfu vs. ubc bs.

[parm104]

As far as I'm concerned, our American neighbours are in a big heep of trouble not because they decided to go to school and build up a huge debt in student loans; but rather because they decided to make purchases of houses, cars and other luxuries that they had no means of paying off and though financing that shit would be a viable option.

Of course this wouldn't apply to EVERYONE but a LOT of foreclosures in the States was a result of people overreaching their credit and buying more than they could afford. Necessity vs Luxury...There is a big difference. You buy what you can afford, you live the lifestyle you can live...

Want more, save more; but don't buy things thinking that you'll end up paying it off 10 years from now because that need to want more is never going to end.

I'm starting to see the same trend here now. People who are working from pay cheque to pay cheque are going off buying fancy cars building new houses. Drive around and see these people with Corvettes and Mercedes with these shacks of houses. It all depends on people's priorities...

[Bonka]

The US buried their own residents in debt. Credit was readily available. Pretty tempting for many folks so they let the good times roll. You wouldn't believe the amount of lenders offering up 100% financing..I remember coming across 102% financing with 0 down on more than one occasion :fulloffuck:

[68style]

I really think the U.S. unemployment crap is a bunch of bullshit. Go on the website for any major company in the USA right now... I'll give you some examples... Microsoft in Seattle... BOEING in Seattle... Toyota in L.A., Mazda in San Francisco...... I have been on those sites recently... and for BOEING alone there are 248 open job opportunities!!! No jobs?! Give me a break... more like too many dumbasses with no education that are too lazy to specialize in something useful and just want everything handed to them or to be the next YouTube or America's Got Talent phenom.

And high pay too!!! I'd much rather be in Torrance, CA doing a more interesting job at Toyota USA than what I do now for more money and all kinds of nice benefits... and there's tonnes of openings... but the damn U.S. is so protectionist there's literally no way for anyone else to apply.............

[falcon]

thats sad, but its what people are forcefed by their parents and schools to do.
usually kids dont figure out what they really WANT to do until they're in their 20s.
by then they've already wasted 2-3 years minimum of irrelevant studies.
and in many cases its more like 5-10 years wasted or even more.

how the hell are you supposed to know what you want to do by the time you're 17 if you dont even truly know whats out there?
universities are made for cookie cutter careers. they just want your tuition money and they'll push you out the door.

Precisely. I'm 23 going on 24 in a few weeks, have not been to university yet have done quite well. I had no idea what I wanted to do at 17/18, and still don't. But I went to work, made some money and now I'm travelling the world all while my old friends are working dead end jobs with BA's in Vancouver.

Many of them are just starting to get into the work force, and finding it quite difficult with being 24, no work experience (at all, even HS jobs) and only a BA.

From what I've found with a few other friends, if you carry yourself well and are a hard worker at 18 many places are willing to take a chance on a younger employee ready and willing to work. Then, work 5 years and you're up the ladder in no time while your old school mates are still struggling to find an entry level job that you managed to land when you were 18.

Walking out of Uni., at 23/24 with no real workforce exp. and expecting the world... well, sorry to burst your bubble. You're either not experienced enough in the field you want to work or too experienced for anything else. Happened to my sister (who is now going back for a Masters) and it's happening to her husband who just graduated with a BA in Mech Engineering from UBC.

[bloodmack]

There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.

I'd rather be the goof with a big truck and a good wage, rather then a brainiac who is willing to accept an avg wage with a big brain.. because to me that goof just out played the brainiac. And you shouldn't bash something before you try it. My freind welds and he works his ass off welding isn't for the "uneducated".

[falcon]

I'm sorry for your personal experiences yet I disagree with this..

Lots of "young adults" want to have fun and enjoy life... and don't think down the road into their 30's until its too late..:rukidding: then they fucking complain about debt and shit when "LIFE" hits them..


Fact: I'm 21 and I make 4x the wage my brother does going to school and working P/T.. he's 27.

So you're 21 making loads of dough... sweet! So was I... until I realized money isn't everything and I hated working all the time.

Soo many young people these days just think about MONEY MONEY MONEY. Maybe some people realize that life is long, and there is nothing wrong with settling down in your 30's. Sure you might make more MONEY than I do by then, but I'll guarantee I'll have had more fun, more memories and better experiences than someone who thinks like you do. I turned down a job that paid very well to hop on a plane to Europe 5 months ago and haven't looked back. I know that when I go home, there will always be another opportunity. And anyone that tells you there is no work, or can't find that opportunity is either lazy or looking above their experience level, and not willing to grind it out for a few years to get where they want to go.

[falcon]

My Mom wanted me to stay in my former career, pursue a sense of fufillment in my off hours and continue earning a very good living, but so many people in high paying jobs allow work to dominate their lives and I feared that would happen.

If a person is happy as a welder and that's what gives them fufillment, that's not who my statements are directed at. I just feel money has to much of an influence on people..
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)


If you don't mind me asking, what did you do at 20 and what do you do now? What changed that made you drop what you were doing to pursue something else?

[falcon]

I'd rather be the goof with a big truck and a good wage, rather then a brainiac who is willing to accept an avg wage with a big brain.. because to me that goof just out played the brainiac. And you shouldn't bash something before you try it. My freind welds and he works his ass off welding isn't for the "uneducated".

It's not about being a braniac, it's about doing something you enjoy.

The key to life is Happiness. Not the goal.

[falcon]

but the damn U.S. is so protectionist there's literally no way for anyone else to apply.............

Yes and no. If you contact the company, are skilled in the field they are hiring for (more than someone local) and they are willing to sponsor a visa you can get a job in the USA. It's just a lot of work and a lot of red tape. But not completely impossible.

[MindBomber]

I'd rather be the goof with a big truck and a good wage, rather then a brainiac who is willing to accept an avg wage with a big brain.. because to me that goof just out played the brainiac. And you shouldn't bash something before you try it. My freind welds and he works his ass off welding isn't for the "uneducated".

I think you missed the point.

There's nothing wrong with being a welder, I was a low level welder/fabricator at a shop in high school for awhile. My friends boyfriend is a welder, decent enough guy.

If a person who will not be fulfilled by a career as a welder chooses that profession for the monetary gains, I have no respect for them. If a person chose to become a doctor specially for the monetary gains, I would have the same opinion.

Money is only numbers, possessions are only things. When you die, none of that really matters anymore. At the end of your life, reflecting, you won't wish you had worked harder and bought the ipad99s and felt happy in the knowledge you own expensive jeans. If you can reflect on having lead a happy life, secure in the knowledge that you made a positive impact on the world, that's when you will be truly fulfilled. It's that fulfillment that is important, over anything else in our brief stint on this planet.

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do at 20 and what do you do now? What changed that made you drop what you were doing to pursue something else?

I started working at a construction company at eighteen as a labourer and stood out quickly; the company had difficulty people getting people at my age to even show up daily, I however was the first person on site every morning. That attitude earned me the opportunity to constantly learn new skills, so when an opportunity to move up in the ranks presented itself I was promoted over a few people with more seniority and began working on job sites unsupervised with one or two crew members. The clients we worked with were very high end, so I went the extra mile no one else thought to do. I shaved and wore clean clothes, a pretty novel concept for some people in construction. I also never failed a building inspection and did flawless work. Before long contractors who questioned the company for sending me, a kid, were specifically requesting I come to the job they booked. That lead to another promotion to running multiple crews, up to twenty people.

I was good at my job, I made lots of money. I bought my car all cash, lived in a nice apartment and lived a pretty comfortable lifestyle all around. I didn't go to work excited though, I went to work and just went through the motions. There was satisfaction in a turning out a good product, but it was always just another job for another person with way to much money. When my friends talked about school, I was curious about all the things they were studying and took that as a sign.

Now, I'm completing my bachelors. Once that's complete I'll be applying to a two year BSN (Registered Nurse) program, specifically shortened for people who already have a full bachelors degree. I'd like to work with Doctors without Borders as a nurse.

That was a much longer explanation than I intended.

[bloodmack]

Materialism Is what drives the world forwards. People could like their job because it's good money. For some being financially well is what makes a job so enjoyable. If we all had our choice of jobs that we wanted, the world would crumble so fast.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Also like to make the point that we are raised in a world where being a doctor, or any other glorified profession, is always the better choice because of the money.

[Gridlock]

talking to some trades guys is a trade in itself. takes years to learn.

And thank god for it!

I came into working in trades from the outside. I went to school for business management, and really hated being a drone in the chain of drones that ran the place I worked for.

So I quit, and went to do what I wanted to do...build. I wanted to go home at the end of the day and say, "I built 'this' today out of nothing"

I wanted to be 'the' manager. The decision making starts and stops with me.

My number 1 sales pitch is, "I am not some walking talking ape that you can't communicate with. You have questions, and I can provide meaningful answers"

When I first started, I did a lot of reading about what to say during quotations and how to book work. Everything said, "wear work clothes...makes you look busy"

Ok.

I wore dress pants and a button up shirt.

As soon as you open the door, you think, "different".

For some people it works, and for others it doesn't. Some people are looking for the ape type. That's cool. The next guy that comes in is going to be your ape you are looking for.

I'm instinctively going to be nice to your neighbors, considerate to building staff and get the job done.

[top_dyl]

There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.

welding is much harder than picking up a book and read isn't it?? hell, if i get payed $140/hr to read and study i'd do that instead than to weld all day

[GabAlmighty]

really, you saw this thread as an opportunity to prop yourself up? :eekthumb:

Why yes, yes I did.

Jigga please. Anyone who attributes their end result purely as "hard work" are just as bad as the other extreme of "it's all luck" .
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Oh ya, sorry. I just sat here and it fell into my fucking lap...

[melloman]

So you're 21 making loads of dough... sweet! So was I... until I realized money isn't everything and I hated working all the time.

Soo many young people these days just think about MONEY MONEY MONEY. Maybe some people realize that life is long, and there is nothing wrong with settling down in your 30's. Sure you might make more MONEY than I do by then, but I'll guarantee I'll have had more fun, more memories and better experiences than someone who thinks like you do. I turned down a job that paid very well to hop on a plane to Europe 5 months ago and haven't looked back. I know that when I go home, there will always be another opportunity. And anyone that tells you there is no work, or can't find that opportunity is either lazy or looking above their experience level, and not willing to grind it out for a few years to get where they want to go.

I thanked you for your views & opinions. Considering that the world is money driven and hungry for money, where I can honestly say so am I.

An opinion is an opinion.. I haven't gotten the joys out of travelling yet, although I went with family. (Europe, Cali, Calgary/Edmonton, Prairies, Hawaii etc..etc..) I would rather make money now, get a house in the GVRD, and before having kids, enjoy some of the money I made, and possibly go travel and sit somewhere hot and sunny. (Bali, Cancun, Hawaii again, Fiji, Caribbean)

[taylor192]

I turned down a job that paid very well to hop on a plane to Europe 5 months ago and haven't looked back. I know that when I go home, there will always be another opportunity.
My friends in tech said the same thing in 2002 when we graduated, then the bubble burst and there were no jobs, even for the non-lazy who actively pursued job openings.

The employment situation is not bad right now, yet its not good either. I don't think your decision is wise, yet if you can afford it, go for it.

[Gridlock]

My friends in tech said the same thing in 2002 when we graduated, then the bubble burst and there were no jobs, even for the non-lazy who actively pursued job openings.

The employment situation is not bad right now, yet its not good either. I don't think your decision is wise, yet if you can afford it, go for it.

I think its important to keep things in perspective at a younger age. I took off and went to Thailand for a month. Best decision I could have made. I have made more money from taking off for a month than I could have if I stayed home for a month.

It really changed my perspective enough to be able to say, "I picked up and did this, so I can definitely make this happen" For me, it was changing from a "could do it" person to a "going to do it" person.

No one in their 50's, 60's or 70's is ever going to say, "if only I had made an extra $3k in 2006..."

[unit]

i lived/worked abroad for 7 months when i was 20. was one of the best experiences of my life!
dont regret that for a second.
now im quite a few years older and if i wanted to do that now, well, i probably couldnt unless it was for work.

[MindBomber]

welding is much harder than picking up a book and read isn't it?? hell, if i get payed $140/hr to read and study i'd do that instead than to weld all day

Academic success success is a lot more challenging than welding. Welding is just endurance and relatively simple technique, it only pays well because of the conditions up north.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[gars]

I really think the U.S. unemployment crap is a bunch of bullshit. Go on the website for any major company in the USA right now... I'll give you some examples... Microsoft in Seattle... BOEING in Seattle... Toyota in L.A., Mazda in San Francisco...... I have been on those sites recently... and for BOEING alone there are 248 open job opportunities!!! No jobs?! Give me a break... more like too many dumbasses with no education that are too lazy to specialize in something useful and just want everything handed to them or to be the next YouTube or America's Got Talent phenom.

And high pay too!!! I'd much rather be in Torrance, CA doing a more interesting job at Toyota USA than what I do now for more money and all kinds of nice benefits... and there's tonnes of openings... but the damn U.S. is so protectionist there's literally no way for anyone else to apply.............

There is more to it than that. Boeing has 15'000 employees. Of course there is going to be a revolving door for employees going in and out, and 248 openings compared to the 15'000 working already is not a lot.

As well, not everybody is in a financial position to move across the entire country for a job. Some companies may pay to help you transition to a new city, but many people have commitments, family, etc.

[twitchyzero]

welding is much harder than picking up a book and read isn't it?? hell, if i get payed $140/hr to read and study i'd do that instead than to weld all day

so have you figured out with to do with that $1M in liquid?

[taylor192]

Academic success success is a lot more challenging than welding. Welding is just endurance and relatively simple technique, it only pays well because of the conditions up north.
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I wouldn't say that. I know many academics that cannot turn a wrench, and many mechanics that cannot read a book. What comes easy to one person, may not to the next.

[parm104]

It doesn't make sense to sit here and debate about which path is more stimulating, which path is more rewarding and which path is more difficult...

It's such a pointless argument. To each their own. No one can tell another person that they would be better of doing something else because you don't know what that person is or isn't capable of.

But, if you're in trades and making easy cash, don't come in here and say I'm doing fine and making money and living it up because no one cares. And if you're in academics and can't get a job, it's not because education results in LESS opportunities, it's because that field of study you chose may at this time, have less opportunities or simply be more competitive. Again, that field of study is your own choice and if you didn't figure out the kind of job opportunities you will have after school is over, then that is essentially poor planning on your part.

I am kinda annoyed of seeing these threads with people being upset about how expensive it is to live. That's the way things are; it's life, you're not the only one who's having a hard time and there are plenty of other people who are doing fine. That shows that it is possible to live comfortably. This thread is a key example of a mixed variety of people. Those of you who studied and are complaining about how hard it is to afford things, then maybe you should do what some of these trades guys are doing. Trades guys who are saying they can't live off their salaries or that their jobs sucks, go get an education and try something else.

I don't know, I just think it's dumb that people are complaining about how hard things are because there are plenty of people doing just fine. Not saying that it's not hard for you, just say there are things you can probably do about it (at least in most cases.)

[MindBomber]

I wouldn't say that. I know many academics that cannot turn a wrench, and many mechanics that cannot read a book. What comes easy to one person, may not to the next.

I agree, people have natural skill sets.

Through the series of quotes and responses however, my point has digressed significantly. To reiterate my original point, I have no bias against welders or tradespeople as some people seem to be inferring, I was once a tradesperson so it would be quite ironic if I did. My lack of respect goes to a person who disregards leading a fulfilling life in exchange for earning as much money as possible, so they can run on the treadmill of consumerism always striving for the next gadget or toy. It's better to live modestly and enjoy your short time on the earth, with the people you care about doing the things you love most, than to obsess over the numbers on a bank statement.


It doesn't make sense to sit here and debate about which path is more stimulating, which path is more rewarding and which path is more difficult...

It's such a pointless argument. To each their own. No one can tell another person that they would be better of doing something else because you don't know what that person is or isn't capable of.

But, if you're in trades and making easy cash, don't come in here and say I'm doing fine and making money and living it up because no one cares. And if you're in academics and can't get a job, it's not because education results in LESS opportunities, it's because that field of study you chose may at this time, have less opportunities or simply be more competitive. Again, that field of study is your own choice and if you didn't figure out the kind of job opportunities you will have after school is over, then that is essentially poor planning on your part.

I am kinda annoyed of seeing these threads with people being upset about how expensive it is to live. That's the way things are; it's life, you're not the only one who's having a hard time and there are plenty of other people who are doing fine. That shows that it is possible to live comfortably. This thread is a key example of a mixed variety of people. Those of you who studied and are complaining about how hard it is to afford things, then maybe you should do what some of these trades guys are doing. Trades guys who are saying they can't live off their salaries or that their jobs sucks, go get an education and try something else.

I don't know, I just think it's dumb that people are complaining about how hard things are because there are plenty of people doing just fine. Not saying that it's not hard for you, just say there are things you can probably do about it (at least in most cases.)

If there's one thing Vancouverites love to do, it's complain.


Materialism Is what drives the world forwards. People could like their job because it's good money. For some being financially well is what makes a job so enjoyable. If we all had our choice of jobs that we wanted, the world would crumble so fast.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Also like to make the point that we are raised in a world where being a doctor, or any other glorified profession, is always the better choice because of the money.

The world is crumbling, fast, because people fill emotional voids in their lives with objects. Maybe if more people focused on living a fulfilling life through experiences than materialism, the credit crisis and resulting recession would never have happened.

Also, I wasn't raised in a home where doctors were admired for the monetary rewards. I was taught to admire doctors for the schooling they went through and the fact that they help people, just like fire fighters and police officers. Meh.. different perspectives I suppose

[Everymans]

I'm sorry for your personal experiences yet I disagree with this..

From having 2 decisions in Grade 12.. going to BCIT and taking mech. engineering. dropping out after flunking 2 classes in first semester. then going into CAD design.. its been a up & down journey.

Then you have my brother who was 99% throughout HS, went to SFU for comp. sciences, flunked because he wasn't motivated and is now taking first year Accounting @ Douglas College at the age of 27.

If you start to REALISTICALLY think about what you might like to do in Grade 10/11 and try some of it out... you can always figure it out.
It's the attitude of "oh I want to take afew years off first" and then they don't go back to school for 5-8 years.. they get fucked over because that means they're also 26-28 when they are finally starting their degree.

Lots of "young adults" want to have fun and enjoy life... and don't think down the road into their 30's until its too late..:rukidding: then they fucking complain about debt and shit when "LIFE" hits them..


Fact: I'm 21 and I make 4x the wage my brother does going to school and working P/T.. he's 27.

This is another big factor. I wasn't focused in high school. I didn't give two shits and didn't think much about my future. I barely got by and never took any extra curricular activities. Looking back, I wish my parents at least gave me some incentives to get into trades programs like welding and automotive, As i wasn't interested at the time, but now I'd love to be a part of a super cheap trades program.

[mikemhg]

One thing I think should be said. To the posters that say "people shouldn't complain about the cost of living in Vancouver". One question for you, A. do you live at home, or B. on your own?

If the answer is A, I think you should shut the fuck up until you move out into the real world.

That is all.

[MindBomber]

One thing I think should be said. To the posters that say "people shouldn't complain about the cost of living in Vancouver". One question for you, A. do you live at home, or B. on your own?

If the answer is A, I think you should shut the fuck up until you move out into the real world.

That is all.

I moved out two months after graduating high school and have always paid my own rent.

I don't complain, because it achieves absolutely nothing, I wish others would realize the same.

[mikemhg]

I moved out two months after graduating high school and have always paid my own rent.

I don't complain, because it achieves absolutely nothing, I wish others would realize the same.

Why not? There's always room for improvement and changes our government can make this city more affordable.

BC rated last in the country in salary growth, the cost of living in Vancouver wouldn't be such a hard pill to swallow if we weren't lagging so behind the rest of Canada. People should have a right to say something about that fact, should we all be sheep and be silent?

[Lomac]

Academic success success is a lot more challenging than welding. Welding is just endurance and relatively simple technique, it only pays well because of the conditions up north.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Tack welding is super easy, I agree. A monkey with one finger picking it's butt can do it. However, doing proper beading is a lot harder than most people realize. However, your point is taken. :p

Back in grade 10, I thought I knew what I wanted to do with my life and adjusted my course load to help with that. After high school, I got a scholarship into a film school and spent a year there. Most useless year of my life I've ever lived. I learned less while there than I did in my high school classes. Regardless, I thought I wanted to make film my career and spent a couple years doing it. I had plenty of work experience between grade 10 and film school, so plenty of people were willing to hire me on, unlike those who I went to school with and had nothing under the belt.

I'll admit that it paid well. Very well. But my life was failing; my girlfriend and I broke up because we would never see each other (I was 20, she was 18, so we weren't really thinking properly lol), and my relationships with my friends and family were fading for the same reason. Sure, I had a decent savings and was financially fairly sound... and I actually enjoyed my job... but I didn't want to work to live. Or, more concisely, I didn't want to live my life as work, sleep, repeat. So I quit.

I make a lot less now and have been occasionally doing night school, but at least I'm a lot happier now. I can actually spend time with friends and go out on proper dates with whoever I happen to be dating at the time.

I'm uncertain as to where i want to go with my career right now. I kinda screwed myself over my not continuing with my AP science courses back in high school and now I need to take refresher courses just so I can get myself into any sort of proper schooling. But like I said, I don't know what I want to do. As much as I would love to have a big, fancy house, a nice car, and steak dinners every night, it's not something I need. I figure that no matter what I decide to do, the financial aspect will definitely not be my first priority when choosing it. So long as I'm happy and can pay for the necessities, who cares about anything else.

[Gridlock]

Why not? There's always room for improvement and changes our government can make this city more affordable.

BC rated last in the country in salary growth, the cost of living in Vancouver wouldn't be such a hard pill to swallow if we weren't lagging so behind the rest of Canada. People should have a right to say something about that fact, should we all be sheep and be silent?

Well, that's because Vancouver really does nothing but be pretty. We aren't a financial center. We aren't a hub for head offices. Manufacturing is small. Resources? Shipping and logistics is pretty big. We're a center for foreign trade, but other than that, I can't really tell you where the money comes from in Vancouver off the top of my head.

So if we're not bringing in huge money, then how can it be paid out?

I'm talking on the macro level here...outside money into the city. Not trading it among ourselves.

[Hondaracer]

If a person is happy as a welder and that's what gives them fufillment, that's not who my statements are directed at. I just feel money has to much of an influence on people..
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and thats why the western world is so fucked up..

anyone who has spent any time in Europe etc. would probably agree that a simpler life seems to be a happier one

while i was travelling through Europe i came to that realization, specifically in places where i indirectly knew people such as Finland etc. I would meet absolutely gorgeous girls who back in Vancouver would be the biggest stuck up cunts in the world, There they could not be nicer and more accommodating, and this literally went for -everyone- i met

no one cared about who drove what, where you lived, etc. I stayed with people who had 1.5+ million euro condo's in downtown helsinki, who travelled with me to meet other relatives who lived in small 900sq foot apartments, and the people never batted an eye either way, people with excellent jobs had good friends that had shitty jobs, a "class" system, although obviously existing, never put restrictions on people like it does here

[gars]

and thats why the western world is so fucked up..

anyone who has spent any time in Europe etc. would probably agree that a simpler life seems to be a happier one

while i was travelling through Europe i came to that realization, specifically in places where i indirectly knew people such as Finland etc. I would meet absolutely gorgeous girls who back in Vancouver would be the biggest stuck up fucking cunts in the world, There they could not be nicer and more accommodating, and this literally went for -everyone- i met

no one cared about who drove what, where you lived, etc. I stayed with people who had 1.5+ million euro condo's in downtown helsinki, who travelled with me to meet other relatives who lived in small 900sq foot apartments, and the people never batted an eye either way, people with excellent jobs had good friends that had shitty jobs, a "class" system, although obviously existing, never put restrictions on people like it does here

funnily enough, the UK is sort of the opposite. People are evaluated based on the the schools they went to, the type of accent they have (thus telling people where they're from). Kids who come from rich families go to good prep schools, getting them into good universities, getting them good jobs, allowing them to look down at all the chavs on the street.

I think it has to do with the overall education and average wage. In finland, there is a smaller lower-income/less-educated class, therefore a lower discrepancy between rich and poor...

But I definitely agree, travelling around countries like Norway, Finland, Sweden - life is simple (and expensive), but people seem geniunely happy.

[parm104]

and thats why the western world is so fucked up..

anyone who has spent any time in Europe etc. would probably agree that a simpler life seems to be a happier one

while i was travelling through Europe i came to that realization, specifically in places where i indirectly knew people such as Finland etc. I would meet absolutely gorgeous girls who back in Vancouver would be the biggest stuck up cunts in the world, There they could not be nicer and more accommodating, and this literally went for -everyone- i met

no one cared about who drove what, where you lived, etc. I stayed with people who had 1.5+ million euro condo's in downtown helsinki, who travelled with me to meet other relatives who lived in small 900sq foot apartments, and the people never batted an eye either way, people with excellent jobs had good friends that had shitty jobs, a "class" system, although obviously existing, never put restrictions on people like it does here

You're basing that on one experience, and your experience. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the way the world works.

I have friends from all sorts of economic backgrounds. I ended up going to private school in high school and most of my high school friends were driving around in Range Rovers, Benz's and the odd Ferrari. My elementary school friends who weren't so well off mingled with my new high school friends just fine. We never looked at each other based on material assets, stock portfolios or bank statements. We were just all friends based on who we were.

My family is the same. We have family members who barely make it by month to month and we have family who live comfortably. We too having been living very comfortably. My dad is the only educated one in his entire family and is a successful family physician and psychiatrist in Canada. He's the only one who has achieved a professional status but this certainly doesn't mean that his siblings didn't work hard. Everyone has their own triumphs and struggles and we have never looked down on anybody in our family because of financial status or because of a lack of education. We visit our families in India who live in rural villages and we never see them as inferior to us. We LOVE seeing them and being with them for they are far away and are loving, caring people. Don't care how they live or what they do for a living. If anyone has friends that do this, they need to go and find new friends.

The cost of living in England is MUCH, higher than here in Canada. That's why they keep trying to immigrate here with their families. The same articles of clothing, electronics, groceries that we get here, are ALMOST double over there. Also, the last time I checked, their min. wage was £5.50. The odd person may try to argue that 5.50 converted to Canadian currency will be around $8 but that's an irrelevant fact. That would only be relevant if their goods (Groceries, clothing, electronics) were based on Canadian prices.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience in Europe and that you got to meet people who were down to earth and humble. But the truth is, you don't have to travel to another country to be around people like that.

[68style]

funnily enough, the UK is sort of the opposite. People are evaluated based on the the schools they went to, the type of accent they have (thus telling people where they're from). Kids who come from rich families go to good prep schools, getting them into good universities, getting them good jobs, allowing them to look down at all the chavs on the street.

I think it has to do with the overall education and average wage. In finland, there is a smaller lower-income/less-educated class, therefore a lower discrepancy between rich and poor...

But I definitely agree, travelling around countries like Norway, Finland, Sweden - life is simple (and expensive), but people seem geniunely happy.

I think it's pretty much a fact in Europe that they look at England the same way they (and we) look at Americans... can't really compare the UK with mainland Europe.

[falcon]

You're basing that on one experience, and your experience. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the way the world works.

I have friends from all sorts of economic backgrounds. I ended up going to private school in high school and most of my high school friends were driving around in Range Rovers, Benz's and the odd Ferrari. My elementary school friends who weren't so well off mingled with my new high school friends just fine. We never looked at each other based on material assets, stock portfolios or bank statements. We were just all friends based on who we were.

My family is the same. We have family members who barely make it by month to month and we have family who live comfortably. We too having been living very comfortably. My dad is the only educated one in his entire family and is a successful family physician and psychiatrist in Canada. He's the only one who has achieved a professional status but this certainly doesn't mean that his siblings didn't work hard. Everyone has their own triumphs and struggles and we have never looked down on anybody in our family because of financial status or because of a lack of education. We visit our families in India who live in rural villages and we never see them as inferior to us. We LOVE seeing them and being with them for they are far away and are loving, caring people. Don't care how they live or what they do for a living. If anyone has friends that do this, they need to go and find new friends.

The cost of living in England is MUCH, higher than here in Canada. That's why they keep trying to immigrate here with their families. The same articles of clothing, electronics, groceries that we get here, are ALMOST double over there. Also, the last time I checked, their min. wage was £5.50. The odd person may try to argue that 5.50 converted to Canadian currency will be around $8 but that's an irrelevant fact. That would only be relevant if their goods (Groceries, clothing, electronics) were based on Canadian prices.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience in Europe and that you got to meet people who were down to earth and humble. But the truth is, you don't have to travel to another country to be around people like that.

I don't know, I can agree with the guy you quoted. I've been living in Germany since early December and before that traveling for 3 months and I totally see what he means. I live in a tiny town, everyone is friendly, easy to meet people, I am living on peanuts (happily too...) and I get to snowboard every day. Sure, it's not going to last forever but nearly all the friends I've met here in Oberstdorf come from other small towns in Germany and they are all completely different in their way of thinking VS. N/A big city folk. It took a while to get used to it but now that I am here I think it's going to be hard to leave.

The same went for almost everyone I met traveling for 3 months even in the bigger cities. People just seem to be happier here. I traveled in England as well, and it's nothing even close to the same as Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Austria, Czk etc. Yes, things are more and min wage is less there (UK). But to put it in perspective, I work 15 hours a week for 10eur/hour at a bar. Plus tips. I take home over 800eur a month. Rent is 300, the rest is MORE than enough for food, entertainment, beer, cell phone etc. And that's working 3 days a week for 5 hours. I COULD work more if I wanted to and likely will in the summer.

The transit system is great, cars are cheap as is insurance (gas is the pricy part but everything is so close, to people here 30kms is "too far"). I can be in Munich in 2 hours, Prauge in 3, Innsbruck in 1.5, Berlin in 4, Paris in 6, Milan in 3 hours by car etc. If I didn't have to go home when my visa expires theres a good chance I would prob. never leave.

[Hondaracer]

You're basing that on one experience, and your experience. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the way the world works.

I have friends from all sorts of economic backgrounds. I ended up going to private school in high school and most of my high school friends were driving around in Range Rovers, Benz's and the odd Ferrari. My elementary school friends who weren't so well off mingled with my new high school friends just fine. We never looked at each other based on material assets, stock portfolios or bank statements. We were just all friends based on who we were.

My family is the same. We have family members who barely make it by month to month and we have family who live comfortably. We too having been living very comfortably. My dad is the only educated one in his entire family and is a successful family physician and psychiatrist in Canada. He's the only one who has achieved a professional status but this certainly doesn't mean that his siblings didn't work hard. Everyone has their own triumphs and struggles and we have never looked down on anybody in our family because of financial status or because of a lack of education. We visit our families in India who live in rural villages and we never see them as inferior to us. We LOVE seeing them and being with them for they are far away and are loving, caring people. Don't care how they live or what they do for a living. If anyone has friends that do this, they need to go and find new friends.

The cost of living in England is MUCH, higher than here in Canada. That's why they keep trying to immigrate here with their families. The same articles of clothing, electronics, groceries that we get here, are ALMOST double over there. Also, the last time I checked, their min. wage was £5.50. The odd person may try to argue that 5.50 converted to Canadian currency will be around $8 but that's an irrelevant fact. That would only be relevant if their goods (Groceries, clothing, electronics) were based on Canadian prices.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience in Europe and that you got to meet people who were down to earth and humble. But the truth is, you don't have to travel to another country to be around people like that.

I'd say your situation experiencing that kind of thing here is the exception not the rule in the western world as opposed to Europe

I spent enough time and met enough people to believe it was the general attitude amongst basically everyone I met, where as here it would be the rare cases to find that type of attitude not the norm
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[Death2Theft]

Kinda explains the women minus the pretty part :alone:
Well, that's because Vancouver really does nothing but be pretty. We aren't a financial center. We aren't a hub for head offices. Manufacturing is small. Resources? Shipping and logistics is pretty big. We're a center for foreign trade, but other than that, I can't really tell you where the money comes from in Vancouver off the top of my head.

So if we're not bringing in huge money, then how can it be paid out?

I'm talking on the macro level here...outside money into the city. Not trading it among ourselves.

[Death2Theft]

So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.

while i was travelling through Europe i came to that realization, specifically in places where i indirectly knew people such as Finland etc. I would meet absolutely gorgeous girls who back in Vancouver would be the biggest stuck up cunts in the world, There they could not be nicer and more accommodating, and this literally went for -everyone- i met

[El Bastardo]

So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.



Can't tell if this is a real question, or just race baiting.

[Gridlock]

I think its a legit question. When I think, "where in the world is there the most racial harmony?", Europe doesn't jump to mind...

[gars]

I think it's pretty much a fact in Europe that they look at England the same way they (and we) look at Americans... can't really compare the UK with mainland Europe.

But the examples that were used in Mainland Europe only really applies to the more economically successful countries. The same doesn't apply to Spain, Portugal, Italy... Hell, even France isn't nowhere as friendly as Germany...

[Tapioca]

^ When I visited Paris 6 years ago (before the Euro Zone went belly up), people seemed miserable. I spent a couple of days with a friend who was going to SciencesPo at the time and she mentioned that living in Paris is quite stressful (low pay and high expectations.) I didn't visit the banlieus, but we all know how bad they are.

It's easy for people to complain about the lower salaries and cost of living here, but ultimately, you're respnsible for your own lives and the choices you make. I've met a lot of women who are successful and many of these women went into health care. What stopped you from going into health care? Similarly, people bitch about work in the public sector. Again, nothing is stopping you from applying.
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[Hondaracer]

So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.

Only language I speak is English

And although I am white, even in Finland seeing Asians was fairly normal and in Russia the diversity of being a "Russian" could mean you could look Asian or even Indian the country reaches so far in every direction
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[Gridlock]

And quite honestly, I really don't want Europe to be a model for our society AT ALL. People are always looking at Europe as being this great model...5 weeks vacation and this paid for and that paid for and all this great stuff.

Great. When the economy is cooking and you can pay for it, but as soon as the economy slows down, and people are no longer working at these jobs and paying their 40%-50% taxes then it all comes crumbling down.

I will fight hard for a Canada that stays a little more inclusive than the states, and way less socialist than Europe.

Let's call it, "Capitalist with a Conscience"

[JD¹³]

And quite honestly, I really don't want Europe to be a model for our society AT ALL. People are always looking at Europe as being this great model...5 weeks vacation and this paid for and that paid for and all this great stuff.

Great. When the economy is cooking and you can pay for it, but as soon as the economy slows down, and people are no longer working at these jobs and paying their 40%-50% taxes then it all comes crumbling down.

I will fight hard for a Canada that stays a little more inclusive than the states, and way less socialist than Europe.

Let's call it, "Capitalist with a Conscience"
Economically Europe is not a good model as they've fucked themselves with the Euro. That being said don't take Greece and France's models that perpetuate laziness as the norm over there. Socially though, Europe is the best place on Earth as far as I'm concerned.

As for the OP, it's pretty sad that I have to be subsidized by my parents at times as well and I make more than double minimum wage and work more than 40hrs a week. I think if the bubble pops in Vancouver as it did in the US you would find a LOT of people in the same demographic moving back home. Vancouver is full of 'fake rich' people who don't have any real savings, equity, or assets that they truly own. If the credit dried up they'd have nothing.

[gars]

Economically Europe is not a good model as they've fucked themselves with the Euro. That being said don't take Greece and France's models that perpetuate laziness as the norm over there. Socially though, Europe is the best place on Earth as far as I'm concerned.

you can't have one without the other. Those countries with the cheap/free tuition, etc - aren't funded by dreams, they're funded by the high taxes.

Europe is being held afloat by a few strong economies (mainly Germany). To give a blanket statement like, "Europe is the best" is definitely false. It should be "Germany is awesome, and the rest of Europe is great for visitors as long as you're not living or working there."

[JD¹³]

you can't have one without the other. Those countries with the cheap/free tuition, etc - aren't funded by dreams, they're funded by the high taxes.
If you're referring to Scandinavia then yes, you're right, the taxes are high. However the standard of living is some of the highest in the world and the people are generally happy no matter how much wealth they have. Everyone takes care of eachother and lives within their means. Norway for example has it's largest oil company kicking back it's profits into the country and making it more prosperous for everyone, not just the companies CEO's. It's such a polar opposite to North Americans materialistic, capitalist thinking that people here can't comprehend living like that. Kinda sad when you think about it.

[gars]

Ya, Norway's oil is controlled by it's gov't, as opposed to Oil companies. That will never happen here though. They were also smart not to join the EU - but it's also because they know they're such a rich country with all their oil that they don't need to be dragged down by the rest of Europe.

I met a girl on the train from Oslo to Stavanger; she works at a chicken packaging plant - she probably makes more than most people on RS.


That said, Norway is not a good representation of Europe.

[bengy]

And quite honestly, I really don't want Europe to be a model for our society AT ALL. People are always looking at Europe as being this great model...5 weeks vacation and this paid for and that paid for and all this great stuff.

Great. When the economy is cooking and you can pay for it, but as soon as the economy slows down, and people are no longer working at these jobs and paying their 40%-50% taxes then it all comes crumbling down.

I will fight hard for a Canada that stays a little more inclusive than the states, and way less socialist than Europe.

Let's call it, "Capitalist with a Conscience"

Oh yeahhh! 5 Weeks vacation is soooo baddddd! I don't even know why people bring that shit up, you can get 5 weeks vacation in Canada, if you don't work for a shitty company. The difference with North Americans, is they chose not to take their vacation. Gotta keep working to get more money to buy more shit!

[truth]

Economically Europe is not a good model as they've fucked themselves with the Euro. That being said don't take Greece and France's models that perpetuate laziness as the norm over there. Socially though, Europe is the best place on Earth as far as I'm concerned.

As for the OP, it's pretty sad that I have to be subsidized by my parents at times as well and I make more than double minimum wage and work more than 40hrs a week. I think if the bubble pops in Vancouver as it did in the US you would find a LOT of people in the same demographic moving back home. Vancouver is full of 'fake rich' people who don't have any real savings, equity, or assets that they truly own. If the credit dried up they'd have nothing.

+1 on the fake rich people who have no idea what saving money even means. I know someone who graduated from ubc and was unemployed for damn near half a year because apparently making 0 dollars was better than "stooping down" to min wage level, but all the while spending like money ain't a thang. :fulloffuck:

[Meowjin]

fuck my shitty job even offers 5 week vacation. and it's a warehouse job too.

granted im misreable there and everyday i want to off myself.

[falcon]

So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.

I am white, but in now way speak anything other than English. It's only the last few months my German has started to get better.

And as for "racial harmony'' it's acutally (from my view)
ok here. There is a big mix of races everywhere you go. It's England and the UK that have big race issues.

[melloman]

Lots of asians in Finland?? :suspicious:

Tourists :fuckthatshit:

I went to Estonia (across the water) and though it's small and obviously not as populated as Finland, saw like 5 asian people, afew black people, and no Hispanics.. :lawl:

Blonde hair/blue eyes prevailed there... :pokerface:

[Hondaracer]

^ I didn't say there were lots lol

And yea, estonia felt alot more of the eastern European city than Finland did, did u go to thalin?
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[Glove]

it almost seems like having Racial diversification is a bad thing in a country.

you go to any country that is mostly 1 race dominated, and shit works and gets done, because everyone has the same beliefs and work ethics and status.

but when you come here or in the US,

all the races segregate themsevles in their own cities anyway, but each of them have different beliefs and ways of making livings ect..

so you get the china mainlanders buying up all expensive property, raising realestate, and not contributing to the work force. Their method of living is very "classial" your either at the top, or at the bottom slaving, like in China, Their kids are raised to also have the same beliefs. Hence the asian guys in high school with 80k cars, and think they are above the other races, and who have never worked a day in their life.

then you get the indians in surrey, who work hard, work together, and they STICK together, they will try and fuck over every other race they can to get an extra dollar, they can not be negotiated with unless your brown too, but eventhough they charge more to other races, they are still cheaper than everyone else and own a lot of franchises and business around the lower mainland, thus taking jobs away from everyone else, when there is a brown owner/manager at a place, only brown employee's will follow.

Then you have the white folk, who work moderatly, not hard enough to break a sweat, but expect a high wage or atleast a wage that they can live happily and sustainable. Cant afford nice things because they dont want to work hard, but feel entitled because they were here first, thus segregate themselves to abby / maple ridge, because housing is affordable and trades are in abbundance out there, hence unions are vastly white people who are just trying to protect themselves in the job market.

but what happens when you try to mash these 3 different lifestyles and beliefs of living in one city? shit gets fucked up, fast, instead of understanding eachother and coming together as one society, we all seperate ourselves in each city and try to compete, just like countries do, I guess its what we do as human nature, we compete.

Fucking over the economy, jobs, realestate, wages, tuition, debt, everything.

Go to germany, australia, china, india, italy, poland ect..

mostly 1 race dominated, but shit gets done over there.

[Eastwood]

I will be starting my internship in April in Linz Austria, granted I have never worked in Europe yet, only studied, but I can tell you it is a completely different approach to the workplace.

[JD¹³]

Go to germany, australia, china, india, italy, poland ect..

mostly 1 race dominated, but shit gets done over there.
I understand what you're trying to say you just used a couple bad examples here. Germany has a very strong economy (that has been brought down by the Euro), but have had massive immigration problems post WWII. Turks flooded into the country and have caused a lot of issues. Italy's economy has always been relatively weak, and from a business standpoint they are a nightmare and some of the laziest people I have had to deal with. China and India are economic powerhouses because of huge slave labour work forces and no regulation. They get it done on paper but not ethically, environmentally, etc.

Australia is a pretty closed society that does well on it's own. One of my favourite countries, if I go back there for a fourth time I don't think I'll leave.

[Shades]

So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.

I had 2 German girlfriends at the same time when I lived in Berlin for a year. I'm Chinese. I hope I answered your question.

[GabAlmighty]

So what they're saying is that if you're still living at home and going to school you shouldn't be buying a brand new cummins?

Damn, guess it's time to prove some people wrong.

[Eastwood]

I had 2 German girlfriends at the same time when I lived in Berlin for a year. I'm Chinese. I hope I answered your question.
Being Canadian I know that German and Austrian culture is very racist. Not referencing the Holocaust, but it is very common for open hate towards Blacks.

[Death2Theft]

How well do you speak German? Then again German girls are somewhat close to north american girls attitude wise so that isn't what i'd be looking for.
I had 2 German girlfriends at the same time when I lived in Berlin for a year. I'm Chinese. I hope I answered your question.

[Death2Theft]

Well if your black that makes you the perfect target for teenagers to rebel with.
Being Canadian I know that German and Austrian culture is very racist. Not referencing the Holocaust, but it is very common for open hate towards Blacks.

[Hondaracer]

Russian broads are where it's at
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[falcon]

Being Canadian I know that German and Austrian culture is very racist. Not referencing the Holocaust, but it is very common for open hate towards Blacks.

How does being Canadian make you an expert on German culture? You list Linz as your location, but you also mention that you're starting work in April. Have you actually worked/lived in Austria or Germany?

I live here, and I can tell you it's not a racist culture. A bit protectionist, but racist? No.

I work with an Italian, a Tunisian, a Slovak, an Australian, a few French and everyone gets along great. I've traveled through all the big German cities as well as Austria and it is very multicultural. There is more "Racism" within the Germans themselves from Tyrol/Southern Bavarian areas of Germany/Austria Vs. the North (Berlin/Hamburg etc.) than there is between actual races from what I've experienced. People here where I live don't even call themselves German, they call themselves Bavarian. Go to Austrian Tyrol, and ask them if they are Austrian. %75 of them will say they are Tyrolian.

How well do you speak German? Then again German girls are somewhat close to north american girls attitude wise so that isn't what i'd be looking for.

German girls are the farthest thing from North American girls. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[mikemhg]

How does being Canadian make you an expert on German culture? You list Linz as your location, but you also mention that you're starting work in April. Have you actually worked/lived in Austria or Germany?

I live here, and I can tell you it's not a racist culture. A bit protectionist, but racist? No.

I work with an Italian, a Tunisian, a Slovak, an Australian, a few French and everyone gets along great. I've traveled through all the big German cities as well as Austria and it is very multicultural. There is more "Racism" within the Germans themselves from Tyrol/Southern Bavarian areas of Germany/Austria Vs. the North (Berlin/Hamburg etc.) than there is between actual races from what I've experienced. People here where I live don't even call themselves German, they call themselves Bavarian. Go to Austrian Tyrol, and ask them if they are Austrian. %75 of them will say they are Tyrolian.



German girls are the farthest thing from North American girls. You have no idea what you're talking about.


LOL, are you black? If not, how the hell would you know?

Sad Investigation: This is How They Treat Black People In Some Parts of Germany - YouTube

[Lomac]

LOL, are you black? If not, how the hell would you know?

Sad Investigation: This is How They Treat Black People In Some Parts of Germany - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejuEARP5Mvw)

I can take footage from any country, any race, and claim they are racist by posting up some footage. One example is an exception, not a rule. I'm German, and I can tell you there is far more racism going on in the Lower Mainland (hell, even on Revscene) than you'll see in Germany.

Sure, there are racist people in Germany. Just as there are racist Chinese in Canada. Just as there are racist African Americans in the USA. Just as there are racist white people France. It doesn't mean the country as a whole is racist.

[Shades]

How well do you speak German? Then again German girls are somewhat close to north american girls attitude wise so that isn't what i'd be looking for.

My German at its best was at a conversational level. I wouldn't feel comfortable working with it though. Like Falcon said, German girls are VERY different from North American girls in many ways. First thing comes to mind is their open mindedness about meeting new people. They are polite and friendly and I rarely ever felt snobbed out.

An example of their open mindedness is that most Germans, or Europeans, often speak more than 2 languages. It shows they want to learn about other cultures. It was amazing watching my friends switch from one language to another by the mere reference of a German street or a French pastry.

Being Canadian I know that German and Austrian culture is very racist. Not referencing the Holocaust, but it is very common for open hate towards Blacks.

Germans have come a long way since WW2. In school, children as young as 7 are taught that their ancestors are responsible for the deaths of 3.3 million Jewish people. Then, they continue to learn the history of WW2 for 7 more years. I don't know about you but I took socials studies 11 completion class during the summer and the WW2 topic was 2 days. The Germans, although think the redundancy of WW2 history is a little excessive, believe it's necessary to learn about what they did so it will never happen again. Hitler was believed to be the single biggest embarrassment in their history.

Many government buildings in Berlin are built with a lot of glass. It is a symbol to the public that they are transparent and have nothing to hide. In school Germans are also taught to question and criticize everything.

[Shades]

Well if your black that makes you the perfect target for teenagers to rebel with.

Being Chinese, I can't say I didn't recieve zero racism when I lived in Europe. I mean I heard some kids walk by and yell out "ching chang ling long" at me while I was having lunch on the patio of a Chinese restaurant with my German girlfriend at the time.

There will always be punks like that. In fact, every May Neo Nazis march through Eastern Berlin. Then there is the opposite extreme, the Anarchists who protest and try to block them. Every year it turns into a fight and the police step in and it becomes a free for all. It's quite the sight! Think Stanley Cup riot but it's even on both sides and the police are ready with their riot gear.

Just because of a few bad apples you can't generalize Germans as a whole for being racist. I was treated with some of the best hospitality and generosity one can imagine. During Christmas my international school friends, from all over Europe, returned home because it was convenient to do so. I stayed in Berlin. A German friend, who I met on the internet a few months before I left from Vancouver, invited me to spend it with her and her family.

There are racist people everywhere, especially in small towns, but I would say they are in a minority in Germany.

How does being Canadian make you an expert on German culture? You list Linz as your location, but you also mention that you're starting work in April. Have you actually worked/lived in Austria or Germany?

I live here, and I can tell you it's not a racist culture. A bit protectionist, but racist? No.

I work with an Italian, a Tunisian, a Slovak, an Australian, a few French and everyone gets along great. I've traveled through all the big German cities as well as Austria and it is very multicultural. There is more "Racism" within the Germans themselves from Tyrol/Southern Bavarian areas of Germany/Austria Vs. the North (Berlin/Hamburg etc.) than there is between actual races from what I've experienced. People here where I live don't even call themselves German, they call themselves Bavarian. Go to Austrian Tyrol, and ask them if they are Austrian. %75 of them will say they are Tyrolian.



German girls are the farthest thing from North American girls. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah I had 2 friends from South Tyrol. They speak Italian and German. Nicest guys I know who each had me over for dinner. The best pasta I had in my life was with them! One made spaghetti carbonara and the other tagliatelle e funghi. It was mind blowing how good they were. I tell one of them how I make pasta at home, with carrots, chicken, brocolli, bell peppers, tomatoes etc. like how Chinese people make it and he spazzed out at me! lol Apprently, pasta sauces are suppose to be simple.

I don't think those ethnic cliques Tyrolian and Bavarian are necessarily racist. They are just overly proud of where they're from. Just like how most Vancouverites think they're better than Torontoians?

I also had Spanish friends who say they're not Spanish but Catalunian and Catalunya is a region in Spain.

[Eastwood]

I had this Mexican friend that I used to study with in Steyr, Austria, and remember on two occasions when they wouldn't let him through the front door of a night club. Reason being is that some locations in Austria only allow whites.

This may not be the same for Germany however, as I've only been there a few times.

Falcon what do you do in Germany?

[falcon]

LOL, are you black? If not, how the hell would you know?

Sad Investigation: This is How They Treat Black People In Some Parts of Germany - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejuEARP5Mvw)

No, I'm white and have German ancestry. But that doesn't effect my eyes, ears or my perception of things going on around me.

[falcon]

Eastwood, I ski bum.

[Death2Theft]

Kind of ironic I'm reading "the deliberate dumbing down of america" talking about the failure of the american education system. The transparency is key, they stress that the kids of the ceos never set foot in a classroom with computers "skinner box" and that they are taught to think outside the box and critical thinking is key.

Many government buildings in Berlin are built with a lot of glass. It is a symbol to the public that they are transparent and have nothing to hide. In school Germans are also taught to question and criticize everything.

[Shades]

Kind of ironic I'm reading "the deliberate dumbing down of america" talking about the failure of the american education system. The transparency is key, they stress that the kids of the ceos never set foot in a classroom with computers "skinner box" and that they are taught to think outside the box and critical thinking is key.


I believe you have misunderstood what I said.

I was in no way "dumbing down" the American education system. In fact, I think it's superior to most European schools, other than Cambridge and Oxford of course but that's another topic.

I was simply recounting what I learned from the German people and trying to show that learning about WW2 is something entirely special for them compared to any other country. You know how some of us display our flags proudly outside our homes? Well, since the war, if any Germans did that they would be labelled as Nazis. They were not proud of their nation. How could one be when learning that your ancestors were responsible for genocide and the whole world condemned your country?

It wasn't until 2006 when Germany hosted the World Cup when people started being patriotic. Turkish people celebrating with Germans, young with old and everybody having a jolly good time. Football is one of those few occasions that really bring people together.

[spyker]

I had this Mexican friend that I used to study with in Steyr, Austria, and remember on two occasions when they wouldn't let him through the front door of a night club. Reason being is that some locations in Austria only allow whites.


Ever tried getting into some of the nightclubs in Sweden?

Even if you are white,you may not get in,they only let good looking people inside.

[JD¹³]

Ever tried getting into some of the nightclubs in Sweden?

Even if you are white,you may not get in,they only let good looking people inside.
Clubs and bars are privately owned businesses that cater to certain groups of people, in no way are they a representation of the general populous of a country. The situations brought up in this discussion do not necessarily mean the staff or owners of that business are racist either. They are in business to make money and satisfy a customer base. People are way too sensitive to this shit and are always quick to throw the race card because it's an easy cop out. Sorry to say it, but especially if they're NOT white. Don't like it? Go somewhere else to get a beer or own your own club and let in whoever you do or don't want.

What does all this have to do with the OP again?
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[WakeMeUp]

I think its a legit question. When I think, "where in the world is there the most racial harmony?", Europe doesn't jump to mind...

places where there is racial homogeneity

[Ronith]

Bring back the jobs and stop the bleeding by outsourcing to China. What happened to the jobs? A good number of them went to China.

[Death2Theft]

You do have a clue as part of UN agenda 21 the jobs are being regulated out of the country on purpose by the gov controlled agencies? If not u have alot of reading to do.
I suggest starting with "behind the green mask"

[ilovebacon]

Idk where to put this. But here we go.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=CA#/watch?v=U7-zJIIXg8U)
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[Eastwood]

Bring back the jobs and stop the bleeding by outsourcing to China. What happened to the jobs? A good number of them went to China.
The only jobs that are really outsourced to places like China and India are telemarketing positions in which North American's don't want anyway.

Instead of imposing trade quotas and tariffs it would be more beneficial for our government to invest in manufacturing in Canada to be competitive with other countries.

That said we can never match China in terms of low cost goods, but can we in quality.

[godwin]

or by sheer weight.. impose a carbon tax on consumer goods.


That said we can never match China in terms of low cost goods, but can we in quality.

[drunkrussian]

The only jobs that are really outsourced to places like China and India are telemarketing positions in which North American's don't want anyway.

Instead of imposing trade quotas and tariffs it would be more beneficial for our government to invest in manufacturing in Canada to be competitive with other countries.

That said we can never match China in terms of low cost goods, but can we in quality.

tons of engineering jobs, software, hardware, etc that evrryone sants and needs are being outsourced too
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[Eastwood]

tons of engineering jobs, software, hardware, etc that evrryone sants and needs are being outsourced too
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How do you outsource engineering and software jobs? Serious question, wouldn't they then just be Chinese jobs?

Outsourcing is usually referred to with unskilled labor.

[Nightwalker]

How do you outsource engineering and software jobs? Serious question, wouldn't they then just be Chinese jobs?

Outsourcing is usually referred to with unskilled labor.

Tons of skilled jobs are outsourced, particularly anything you can do over a computer. Like programming and animation.

Outsourcing of animation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsourcing_of_animation)

[Gridlock]

I can take footage from any country, any race, and claim they are racist by posting up some footage. One example is an exception, not a rule. I'm German, and I can tell you there is far more racism going on in the Lower Mainland (hell, even on Revscene) than you'll see in Germany.

Sure, there are racist people in Germany. Just as there are racist Chinese in Canada. Just as there are racist African Americans in the USA. Just as there are racist white people France. It doesn't mean the country as a whole is racist.

I prefer not to judge based on racists in a given country, area, city or forum.

I judge based on the reactions to it. How accepted is it, and how many people call it out as being wrong.

[drunkrussian]

How do you outsource engineering and software jobs? Serious question, wouldn't they then just be Chinese jobs?

Outsourcing is usually referred to with unskilled labor.

software jobs are outsourced to india, and the filipines for lots of solid code writing for extremely cheap. The north americans then discover tons of bugs in the code and fix it but overall it's cheaper. they're certainly not unskilled but the skill and attention to detail is much less than here, for a tiny fraction of the cost. outsourcing at its finest.

software jobs are outsourced to russia and germany for superior skill for varying prices compared to here - they are extremely skilled in those two countries with software.

engineering is outsourced to china, yes i meant "chinese jobs" for that one lol

[darnold]

software jobs are outsourced to india, and the filipines for lots of solid code writing for extremely cheap. The north americans then discover tons of bugs in the code and fix it but overall it's cheaper. they're certainly not unskilled but the skill and attention to detail is much less than here, for a tiny fraction of the cost. outsourcing at its finest.

software jobs are outsourced to russia and germany for superior skill for varying prices compared to here - they are extremely skilled in those two countries with software.

engineering is outsourced to china, yes i meant "chinese jobs" for that one lol

You see similar concepts in the oil and gas business too, involving shady construction mehods that have to be routinely reworked to Canadian standards, but ultimately cuts corporate costs.
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