[yot065]

New tolls suggested for Metro Vancouver drivers - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/02/24/bc-translink-tolls.html)

A confidential TransLink report says charging tolls on many more roads in Metro Vancouver could raise the hundreds of millions of dollars needed to make our transit system work.

The report, Evaluation of Revenue Sources to Support Transportation Improvements, makes a number of fundraising suggestions, but possibly most contentious among them is what’s called “road pricing.”

The system could be implemented by charging for vehicles at major exit and entry points to the region, like bridges and tunnels.

'It's a very efficient investment of taxpayer dollars.'—Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson

A $1.60 toll on vehicles would bring in at least $100 million a year, according to one estimate in the report.

Other options include imposing a toll for each kilometre a vehicle is driven on main roads, suggested at 67 cents per kilometre, or charging vehicle registration fees of $35 and $105.

As hugely unpopular as they might be, user fees makes sense, according to UBC transportation professor Robin Lindsey, because funding needs to be raised somehow for road construction and maintenance, and for transit.

"Road pricing is a very good tool for addressing that,” Lindsey told CBC News. “You can price the roads according to how much congestion there is, you can do it by time of day, which I think was one of the suggestions, and I strongly support that."

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson reasons that road pricing is cheaper in the long run.

“It's an investment in better transit around the region and reducing traffic and congestion,” Robertson said Friday. “We need to keep investing on that. It's a very efficient investment of taxpayer dollars that reduce the overall cost of living.”

A few Lower Mainland drivers that CBC News spoke to weren’t seeing the logic.

“Not liking that at all,” said one. “I already pay enough in taxes that I don't feel like I need to pay to drive on a certain road.”

“I guess it wouldn't really deter me from driving, but it would sure be another hole in my wallet,” said another.

Final revenue-increasing recommendations from TransLink are expected to be completed and forwarded to the province in the next few weeks.

[1exotic]

'It's a very efficient investment of taxpayer dollars.'—Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson



^ lol what a chump piece of shit scumbag hippie.

[MindBomber]

...other options include imposing a toll for each kilometre a vehicle is driven on main roads, suggested at 67 cents per kilometre...

My commute is a 135 kilometer round trip, that would equate to my paying over $90 in tolls to drive to school each day.

$1800 a month in tolls, no problem..

even if it's a typo, and it's actually only 0.067 cents per kilometer..

$180 a month in tolls, WTF.

[mac25]

i wouldn't be too off set for a $1 a day if you use the highways, i wouldn't agree with $1.60 for every major highway entrence and exit, plus bridges, if that's what they are saying.

ps:did anyone see In Time? where thay charge people way more then they could ever afford to change cities? gas possibley going to $1.75 major roads getting taxed? i just hope the money actually goes to it's purpose and not someones pocket.

[AVS_Racing]

:rukidding: FUCK the transit, every year they want to raise this and raise that because they are still running a deficit

[E-40six]

This is really BS. I run a trucking business in the lower mainland and we drive between 100-300km's in one day. This would definitely put a lot of us out of business if we do not pass the charge onto our clients. We're already paying a premium on commercial insurance and increased prices at the diesel pumps.

[Lomac]

Sure, they can implement the by-the-mileage billing. I'll just unplug my odometer. :p

[shenmecar]

BC, THE BEST PLACE ON EARTH.

[Manic!]

Sure, they can implement the by-the-mileage billing. I'll just unplug my odometer. :p

It would most likely be done by camera's. Catch your plate when you enter the road and when you leave.

What you would need is this: HIdden License Plate Kits « autoloc.com (http://www.autoloc.com/catalog/HIdden-License-Plate-Kits)

[FS1992EG]

I googled how much Gregor Robertson earned in 2009 and it totaled $161,469. That's with travel allowance and travel/ conference category.

We can assume that they give themselves a 10 percent raise every year for the "good job" that they do every year. Bike lane on a bridge??? lol

I would like to see politicians having a salary cap.50k-70k If a politicians do something that benefits the people and society in BC they should be entitled for a bonus for doing a great job.

That would also go for CEO's of government owned company's such as ICBC, BC Ferries, Translink. They get paid millions for ideas like "higher preimiums, higher fees, road taxes, tolls" etc.

I'm getting tried of taxes as a solution to every problems "deficits" in BC. Especially when it hurt the middle class earners that have to foot the bill for it.

[falcon]

I would support bridge tolls and highway tolls. That`s it. No per KM billing. And I would only support it if translink is not involved. Fuck translink.

[1exotic]

Someone needs to put a bond on his name so he can get murked.

[PiuYi]

I googled how much Gregor Robertson earned in 2009 and it totaled $161,469. That's with travel allowance and travel/ conference category.

We can assume that they give themselves a 10 percent raise every year for the "good job" that they do every year. Bike lane on a bridge??? lol

I would like to see politicians having a salary cap.50k-70k If a politicians do something that benefits the people and society in BC they should be entitled for a bonus for doing a great job.

That would also go for CEO's of government owned company's such as ICBC, BC Ferries, Translink. They get paid millions for ideas like "higher preimiums, higher fees, road taxes, tolls" etc.

I'm getting tried of taxes as a solution to every problems "deficits" in BC. Especially when it hurt the middle class earners that have to foot the bill for it.

the problem with this is then who would be willing to be a politician? not saying robertson here is the best bean in the stalk but the quality of people willing to work for 50-70k is alot less than what they're getting from people receiving 100+k now

all the high quality people will work for private companies getting paid 100+k while public corporations/offices are stuck with whats left

[FerrariEnzo]

WTF... whats the difference then going to a restaurant and paying other peoples bills..

Im not taking transit, why should I suffer!!

Isnt there already a fee when registering for your car...

[Gridlock]

Perhaps we need to stop trying to save the environment all by ourselves.

Maybe we need to build a little less big fancy new stuff that looks good on a record of ones political legacy but does little to pay for itself...evergreen line.

I don't know, maybe we need to realize that nickle and diming the population will do nothing to create a place where people want to set up businesses, and live and raise families. Maybe that would do more to increase revenue based on volume, not the absolute maximum that we can scrape from the people that are left.

Maybe we need to understand that socialism doesn't work.

Maybe we need politicians who's political legacy is "I did nothing, and it worked"

Maybe its time for me to start packing some bloody boxes, realize that the mountains are not worth it and snow melts and live some place else.

[falcon]

the problem with this is then who would be willing to be a politician? not saying robertson here is the best bean in the stalk but the quality of people willing to work for 50-70k is alot less than what they're getting from people receiving 100+k now

all the high quality people will work for private companies getting paid 100+k while public corporations/offices are stuck with whats left

Well for starters, it would weed out all the people who are just doing it for the paycheque and bring in more people who want to actually do some good.

While I don't ever trust the word of a politician, if creating these extra revenue streams can help us get to the level of European transit and transit in big cities like TO/NYC then I'm for it. It should also force a few people to use transit and leave their car at home which IMO is a good thing. There are many people, like myself who 'could' use transit but the costs/time is so close to driving that I would rather drive. Now if there were tolls, that would change things. People need to remember driving is a privilege, not a right.

[DsZ24]

Must be easy to think tolling a vehicle for each kilometer driven is a good idea when you ride your bike everywhere Gregor.

[q0192837465]

Public transit in itself is a public service. It is suppose to run a deficit because it is a cost centre. Just like how the health care system and education system run deficits if u just isolate them and look at them as separate operations.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOL Richmond will be fuck lol if tollilling on all bridges is to happen.

Toll ppl on highway? Then ppl was just avoid highways and use other major roads that isn't classfied as highways or use smaller streests. Which in terms create more traffic for those areas.

Tolling certain areas/certain things will only make ppl avoid it. There are like 4 to 5 different routes I can take to work which some invole highways, others don't. If they were to toll highways you can bet for sure I am going to stay off highways. If they toll bridges then I just won't go to richmond any longer which will impact a lot of business in Richmond for sure.

If transit need money to build the evergreen line then tax the city that will benfit from it (coq, poco coq........) since it will benfit those ppl but not such a benfit for the rest of us. Or increase transit fares (which it is going up next year anyways).

[tiger_handheld]

ceo's of icbc/hydro/translink -- need to be fired or those industries need to be privatized. maybe in a few years, KEVIN falcon will realize that those three corps don't fit the provinces core competencies and privatize, just like bcld warehouses.

im sure anyone average joe can make a better ceo. we need a ceo from the people for the people. not some goon with a monkey brain.

[iEatClams]

the problem with this is then who would be willing to be a politician? not saying robertson here is the best bean in the stalk but the quality of people willing to work for 50-70k is alot less than what they're getting from people receiving 100+k now

all the high quality people will work for private companies getting paid 100+k while public corporations/offices are stuck with whats left

There's been research that when politicians are underpaid, they tend to be more corrupt. The higher the wage, the less the corruption. Many countries pay their politicians peanuts, and therefore they resort to bribes and corruption.

Its demand and supply, theres too few people that want to be politicians, and we need to attract the good ones somehow.

[Santofu]

Wow :rukidding:

CEO and employees of ICBC, Translink, etc needs to get their salary reduced... Did news mentioned about CEO of translink is getting paid about roughly 325k a year if I remember correctly?

[iEatClams]

Public transit in itself is a public service. It is suppose to run a deficit because it is a cost centre. Just like how the health care system and education system run deficits if u just isolate them and look at them as separate operations.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Yes, but you can still compare the efficiency of those costs centres.

Look at the states, there's so many tolls everywhere, bridges, highways etc. We could go to a user pay system.

I use to live in Surrey, basically minutes before the Port Mann Bridge, if I didnt want to pay the tolls I would have to go out of my way and drive extra kms and time to go to the Pattullo. Thankfully I dont have to worry about that.

I say we toll ALL Bridges at a cheaper rate like $.50 cents or $1, instead.

[taylor192]

the problem with this is then who would be willing to be a politician? not saying robertson here is the best bean in the stalk but the quality of people willing to work for 50-70k is alot less than what they're getting from people receiving 100+k now

all the high quality people will work for private companies getting paid 100+k while public corporations/offices are stuck with whats left

I often make this argument, yet there is a limit where being paid more doesn't equal a better politician. Most politicians take a huge paycut to get into politics, they do it cause they want to - as after a certain point the salary doesn't matter cause they are going to go into politics anyways.

They should not be getting raises when everyone else is taking cuts.

[falcon]

ceo's of icbc/hydro/translink -- need to be fired or those industries need to be privatized. maybe in a few years, falcon will realize that those three corps don't fit the provinces core competencies and privatize, just like bcld warehouses.

im sure anyone average joe can make a better ceo. we need a ceo from the people for the people. not some goon with a monkey brain.

Wait, what? Why am I being referenced here? Tolling has been around forever, and Canada is way behind the times when it comes to the rest of the world. If you think I support Translink and ICBC, you're mistaken. I support tolls. Re-read my post earlier and notice how I said I would support tolls, so long at Translink was not involved. Read before you post. :rukidding:

[niu99]

People in Vancouver should realize that driving an automobile on the roads is a privilege. Stop complaining, and start getting familiar with the transit system. Take a look at all the expensive metropolitan areas in Europe, Asia, or even America, you will notice that not everyone could afford to drive. And what do they rely on for transportation? The public transport (subways, trains, buses, etc). Vancouver is no exception.

[MindBomber]

People in Vancouver should realize that driving an automobile on the roads is a privilege. Stop complaining, and start getting familiar with the transit system.

I suggest you give transit outside Vancouver and Richmond a shot.

In some areas of the GVRD, driving isn't optional.

[Mr.HappySilp]

People in Vancouver should realize that driving an automobile on the roads is a privilege. Stop complaining, and start getting familiar with the transit system.

Sure if you live like 5 to 10mins from a skytrain station it will be ok to work. However, if you aren't near a skytrain station good luck waiting for the bus to come by every 30+mins if you miss one. You will also have to wait longer if it is not during rush hour. Also, bus/skytrain service ends at like what 12:30am in weekends? Good luck with such a relible system. A drive to metortorwn from my house is like 10mins while if I were to take the bus it becomes 40mins.

The issue with our transit system is that only if you live near a skytrain station it will actually make life easier, otherwiese using transit is such a pain.

If transit wants ppl to use it more they should first make the existing bus routes better, provide more buses per route, increase hourse in which it operates and get rib off the whole zone systems.

[RS_Pat]

Wait, what? Why am I being referenced here? Tolling has been around forever, and Canada is way behind the times when it comes to the rest of the world. If you think I support Translink and ICBC, you're mistaken. I support tolls. Re-read my post earlier and notice how I said I would support tolls, so long at Translink was not involved. Read before you post. :rukidding:


I think he was talking about Kevin Falcon...

[FS1992EG]

It's definitely a privilege to use the road but I don't like the way they use taxes for a transit system I don't use. I don't want to use a system where's is all about taxing drivers who....

1.Pay for a car and pay taxes on that car.
2.Pay insurance and taxes on those premiums.
3. Go through the test fees from L to class 5 and the time and effort from 16 years old to 20 years plus the instructor I needed in order to pass ICBC exams.
4. Maintenance on our cars every couple of months and taxes from that maintenance.
5. $140-500 deductibles when we're hit by morons.
6. We pay taxes like PST, GST, and "CARBON TAX" on gasoline.
7. Tuners mod their cars providing shops with income.

... Stimulate the economy.

Stupid Transit!

[BoostedBB6]

The public should open up an organization that implements new taxes and fees for government officials.

Tired of these idiots taking the money I work so hard for. Wasting billions on things that no nothing but provide a more cushy job and retirements for this over payed idiots.

Put up more toll cameras, watch what happens.....going to cost a lot to keep replacing all those busted cameras that keep showing up.

[BoostedBB6]

How is it that using roads is a privilege? Your taxes have gone to pay for all of the roads you drive on.....this is not a privilege to use what you pay for, neither is using any other service that your tax dollars go towards.

Using things like the Golden Ears bridge which did not, directly, get payed for using your tax dollars is another topic all together. Despite the fact that the money that went to building that bridge did come from taxes that you pay for in gas as well as use of the transit system.

This government it a joke, bottom line, if you want more of my money then you better work a hell of a lot harder for it.


It's definitely a privilege to use the road but I don't like the way they use taxes for a transit system I don't use. I don't want to use a system where's is all about taxing drivers who....

1.Pay for a car and pay taxes on that car.
2.Pay insurance and taxes on those premiums.
3. Go through the test fees from L to class 5 and the time and effort from 16 years old to 20 years plus the instructor I needed in order to pass ICBC exams.
4. Maintenance on our cars every couple of months and taxes from that maintenance.
5. $140-500 deductibles when we're hit by morons.
6. We pay taxes like PST, GST, and "CARBON TAX" on gasoline.
7. Tuners mod their cars providing shops with income.

... Stimulate the economy.

Stupid Transit!

[tiger_handheld]

Wait, what? Why am I being referenced here? Tolling has been around forever, and Canada is way behind the times when it comes to the rest of the world. If you think I support Translink and ICBC, you're mistaken. I support tolls. Re-read my post earlier and notice how I said I would support tolls, so long at Translink was not involved. Read before you post. :rukidding:

I meant Kevin Falcon! The Finance Minister.. I will edit my post

[tiger_handheld]

I suggest you give transit outside Vancouver and Richmond a shot.

In some areas of the GVRD, driving isn't optional.

does white rock even have bus service :heckno:


interesting page to look up bc public salaries from 2010 - http://www.vancouversun.com/business/public-sector-salaries/advanced.html

[FS1992EG]

Basically it's a privilage to drive a car because all of the taxes that the government generate from it.

But it seems to me that it's a right to use cheap ass transit.

That's why most of the people I know use a car to get around and people who use the bus bum rides from people for have cars with the bus isn't around.

How is it that using roads is a privilege? Your taxes have gone to pay for all of the roads you drive on.....this is not a privilege to use what you pay for, neither is using any other service that your tax dollars go towards.

Using things like the Golden Ears bridge which did not, directly, get payed for using your tax dollars is another topic all together. Despite the fact that the money that went to building that bridge did come from taxes that you pay for in gas as well as use of the transit system.

This government it a joke, bottom line, if you want more of my money then you better work a hell of a lot harder for it.

[!Yaminashi]

"A confidential TransLink report says charging tolls on many more roads in Metro Vancouver could raise the hundreds of millions of dollars needed to make our transit system work."

Fuck that shit. Thats what they said when they jacked up bus fare prices. I don't see any less complaining about our transit system which obviously means it STILL isnt working

[FS1992EG]

They should hike up fares for people who are not students, Install gates for getting on to the platform, and getting rid of the transit officers with issue tickets to fare invaders.

I people actually paid the fares we wouldn't need transit officers in the first place.

[MindBomber]

does white rock even have bus service :heckno:


interesting page to look up bc public salaries from 2010 - Public Sector Salaries - Vancouver Sun (http://www.vancouversun.com/business/public-sector-salaries/advanced.html)

White Rock has bus service in most areas.

Much of Langley has no bus service and in the areas there is it's very limited, yet residents pay GVRD taxes.

I'm a devout environmentalist, I love public transit, but the further east you travel the more useless it becomes. If my life was in Vancouver, I wouldn't own a car and would transit everywhere. I wish driving were a privilege, because believe me, there are other things I would rather spend hundreds of dollars a month on.

[Gridlock]

The more money you give the government, the more they spend on useless shit, thus requiring more money.

Reference: Europe.

[Slifer]

What is a "betch plox"? :confused:

[dark0821]

holy shit.. my blood is boiling... my work doesnt even involve driving everywhere, but i can imagine... I drive at about 20,000KM a year... even @ 6.7cents /km thats just absurd, i would be paying $1340 a year... or about an extra $111 a month.... I dont know... but FUCK am i furious...

people have to realize when you shift starts @ 7am, no transit is gonna help you get there on time in the morning....

ie. my mom has no option but to drive, she works @ Richmond and we live in Vancouver, if she was to take transit to work that is like 3 transfers, 2-zone pass, and plus the bus don't work early enough for her to make it to work on time....

honestly... this is fucked...

[Geoc]

I guess the money to buy more overpriced pieces of shit art that brings no cultural value except uglifying the city has to come from somewhere...

[DC5-S]

Someone needs to put a hit out on that guy... Scum bag
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StylinRed]

I googled how much Gregor Robertson earned in 2009 and it totaled $161,469. That's with travel allowance and travel/ conference category.

We can assume that they give themselves a 10 percent raise every year for the "good job" that they do every year. Bike lane on a bridge??? lol

I would like to see politicians having a salary cap.50k-70k If a politicians do something that benefits the people and society in BC they should be entitled for a bonus for doing a great job.

That would also go for CEO's of government owned company's such as ICBC, BC Ferries, Translink. They get paid millions for ideas like "higher preimiums, higher fees, road taxes, tolls" etc.

I'm getting tried of taxes as a solution to every problems "deficits" in BC. Especially when it hurt the middle class earners that have to foot the bill for it.

the problem with this is then who would be willing to be a politician? not saying robertson here is the best bean in the stalk but the quality of people willing to work for 50-70k is alot less than what they're getting from people receiving 100+k now

all the high quality people will work for private companies getting paid 100+k while public corporations/offices are stuck with whats left


another problem @ having low pay is it increases risks to corruption






One has to realize though that regardless of who's leading the city proposals such as these will always arise and be discussed even ones that would seem far more egregious and so we shouldnt pay them much heed at this stage as most of them aren't even given much attention by the politicians; wait until one of these many reports gets proposed by the city to the public to give it any care or concern

[Tapioca]

All of you people who are focusing on politicians' salaries are not seeing the larger picture. Most of my friends who are intelligent, honest, and well-spoken are already making 60-80K a year. Why would we go into politics if salaries were the same at the expense of our reputations and personal lives?

I'm caught on the fence regarding increased taxes and user fees for transit projects. I'm one of those lucky people who uses public transit on a daily basis as I live within walking distance of a Skytrain station and I work downtown. Public transit for me is awesome. I, in principle, support an increase in taxes to fund expansions because they will benefit me in the long run as long as I continue to live where I live.

On the other hand, I am a car enthusiast and I like to drive my car on off-days. I want to be able to drive anywhere, any time, and drive my car as hard as I feel like it. Paying more in gas taxes sucks. So does paying money to cross bridges. When I'm behind the wheel, I'm king of the road. If someone/something is trying to take that away from me or make it much harder for me to be that king of the road, I get upset and angry.

What was the point of this? Well, I think people tend to view public transit and car use as a zero-sum game. I think most of us need to think about the issue more strategically. As a transit user and a car enthusiast, I recognize that there are no easy solutions.

[The_AK]

I smell a revolt

[Mr.C]

People in Vancouver should realize that driving an automobile on the roads is a privilege. Stop complaining, and start getting familiar with the transit system. Take a look at all the expensive metropolitan areas in Europe, Asia, or even America, you will notice that not everyone could afford to drive. And what do they rely on for transportation? The public transport (subways, trains, buses, etc). Vancouver is no exception.

Typical. Always trying to model Europe, or whatever. Europe is fucking tiny. And their public transportation system is light years ahead of Vancouvers. And the road tolls in London, for example, are recent. They were done to ease congestion, not to fund transit.

I would *totally* take transit. BUT IT SUCKS.

[gars]

And the road tolls in London, for example, are recent. They were done to ease congestion, not to fund transit.

About 80% of the net revenue is used towards TFL (for buses, etc), a small part went towards roads, etc.

Yes, the main purpose of it was to ease congestion - but when you bring up the cost of driving, you must also increase the quality of the transit - which they did by adding more buses, etc.


I think people are overeacting about taxes. I, of course, don't want to pay more taxes - but I understand they are a necessary evil. What if I never got sick, should I be angry that I have to pay my monthly MSP's, plus have the gov't spend a large chunk of taxes (that I pay into) towards health care?

What if I never drove, why should my taxes go towards improving public roads?

What if I never went to school here, and never have children... why should my taxes go towards our education system that I do not personally benefit from?


The list goes on and on. I don't want to pay taxes as much as the next guy - but Transit (like a lot of public services) will always need to have funding from taxes. There are few transit systems in the world that are completely self funding (such as Toronto, but they have a much higher Pop Density than us).

[mercyboy]

vancouver is just getting to expensive to live....:rukidding:

[Death2Theft]

Read UN agenda 21, the goal is to tax everyone out of cars and have people on mass transit pushing the "green" agenda.
I mean we already pay by the KM.... with gas prices as high as they are that alone should go towards maintaining the roads. If people want translink or alternate transportation they should pay for it not the drivers that already pay the gas taxes. Of course that would be in a logical world where you dont have false "green" agenda pushers.
Perhaps we need to stop trying to save the environment all by ourselves.

Maybe we need to build a little less big fancy new stuff that looks good on a record of ones political legacy but does little to pay for itself...evergreen line.

I don't know, maybe we need to realize that nickle and diming the population will do nothing to create a place where people want to set up businesses, and live and raise families. Maybe that would do more to increase revenue based on volume, not the absolute maximum that we can scrape from the people that are left.

Maybe we need to understand that socialism doesn't work.

Maybe we need politicians who's political legacy is "I did nothing, and it worked"

Maybe its time for me to start packing some bloody boxes, realize that the mountains are not worth it and snow melts and live some place else.

[TRDood]

The only problem with public transit is that it's dirty as fuck and too many crazy people.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Supafly]

I wouldnt mind paying the taxes and tolls if our roads were repaired efficiently and in a timely matter with quality materials.... with our roads (espescially on the westside), it needs to be torned up, repaved with some better reflective marking materials ...good god, I cannot see the darn lines in the rain....

[melloman]

I agree with Gridlock.

We are jumping too many lines to try and get ahead of much better cities. And I'm looking at my future in the GVRD and laughing at myself. In 3 years when I find myself ready to move out, where the hell am I going to go?

I won't beable to afford housing in Richmond. The housing I can afford is in Langley/Abbotsford (in 3 years it will probably be Chiliwack) making my trip take 3 hours longer, cost thousands more/year, and I'll be even poorer then.

I currently live in Burnaby, and work in Richmond. If I wanted to take public transportation, it would take roughly 2.5 hours to get to work, compared to my 35 minute commute by driving.

Driving is a privledge, I can agree. Which is why I pay $75/5 years for my license. Why I pay $3000/year for insurance which I will NEVER get back because I'm a competant driver. And when I do have something happen to me, I STILL have to pay a deductable (a vandalism claim still cost me $300 yet it was in no way my fault..) And now paying whatever the god damn gas tax is.. I do find myself donating ALOT for my "privledge."

I do not own a home, I live with ym parents. I can see what we pay in taxes/year.. and how every year those taxes go up. Yet I don't see a better quality of living. Funny.

[dinosaur]

It makes me crazy when people compare the lack of tolls here to other cities and countries.

The Lower Mainland/GVRD is not built like other cities. This obviously goes without saying, but we are spread out everywhere....up hills/mountains, into the valleys, close to the water, on small islands, etc.

People do not work where they live. It is rare to find someone who lives in Burnaby and works in Burnaby. Same is said for students. Not everyone has the luxury of going to UBC while living in Point Grey. We are a commuting region. When you have a commuting population, with people coming from all over the place, you can not expect public transit to reach everywhere! I lived in Delta and worked in Maple Ridge...I sat next to students at SFU who lived in Abbotsford.

Translink/Gov't needs to stop continually expanding to reach every possible area of the Lower Mainland. A vast majority of people have no option but to drive a car to get places.

We need to pick one! We can be adding bridges, re-building bridges, expanding roads and highways at the same time we are expanding and adding public transit. We can't afford to do both! Unless they plan to expand skytrain to surrey/langley/abbotsford and to Whiterock, Tsawwassen, Ladner, Steveston, etc. it can't be transit!

Ugh, I am so sick of all this shit. Everyday its another fucking toll, tax, fee, levy, rate hike, etc...all to live in the "best place on earth". If this is the case, we should start taxing the ocean, mountains, and air because we are all running out of blood for the gov't to suck.

Rambling rant over...

[cctw]

lol they haven't told you the best thing yet...HST on top of the tolls

[melloman]

Road tolls recommended for Metro (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Road+tolls+recommended+Metro/6203169/story.html)

However, the report notes one drawback - none of these road-pricing schemes could be implemented in time to meet TransLink's 2013 needs.

Plenty to hate about TransLink's wishlist of taxes and fees (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Plenty+hate+about+TransLink+wishlist+taxes+fees/6214507/story.html)

It includes higher gas taxes, higher transit fares, new bridge and tunnel tolls, new charges based on how far you drive, new vehicle registration fees, an employee tax and an attempt to capture some of the increased property value that new transit often creates.

The only thing missing is a tax on shoes, to capture anyone able to avoid the other taxes by walking to work.

And hey, best of all.. if we don't get any taxing going. Property owners will take the hit.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Metro+Vancouver+mayors+hope+avoid+property+incease +with+host+tolls+road/6207420/story.html

[melloman]

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/documents/bpotp/10_year_plan/2012_plans/2012_supplemental_plan_moving_forward.ashx

And the commisioners notes:

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/documents/about_translink/governance_and_board/mayors%20council/2010_2011/commissioner_report_2012_supplement.ashx

[Mr.HappySilp]

It makes me crazy when people compare the lack of tolls here to other cities and countries.

The Lower Mainland/GVRD is not built like other cities. This obviously goes without saying, but we are spread out everywhere....up hills/mountains, into the valleys, close to the water, on small islands, etc.

People do not work where they live. It is rare to find someone who lives in Burnaby and works in Burnaby. Same is said for students. Not everyone has the luxury of going to UBC while living in Point Grey. We are a commuting region. When you have a commuting population, with people coming from all over the place, you can not expect public transit to reach everywhere! I lived in Delta and worked in Maple Ridge...I sat next to students at SFU who lived in Abbotsford.

Translink/Gov't needs to stop continually expanding to reach every possible area of the Lower Mainland. A vast majority of people have no option but to drive a car to get places.

We need to pick one! We can be adding bridges, re-building bridges, expanding roads and highways at the same time we are expanding and adding public transit. We can't afford to do both! Unless they plan to expand skytrain to surrey/langley/abbotsford and to Whiterock, Tsawwassen, Ladner, Steveston, etc. it can't be transit!

Ugh, I am so sick of all this shit. Everyday its another fucking toll, tax, fee, levy, rate hike, etc...all to live in the "best place on earth". If this is the case, we should start taxing the ocean, mountains, and air because we are all running out of blood for the gov't to suck.

Rambling rant over...

Just wait till the gov start putting parking meters everything including in resident streets and when the needed more funds they will put parking meters in your garuage and on your driveway.........

[Death2Theft]

UN agenda 21 is to bring the standard of living down.
I agree with Gridlock.

I do not own a home, I live with ym parents. I can see what we pay in taxes/year.. and how every year those taxes go up. Yet I don't see a better quality of living. Funny.

[melloman]

^^ So I'm paying more for a shittier standard of living?... :seriously: :rukidding: :fulloffuck:

[twitchyzero]

lol @ politicians should make 50-70k instead of adding taxes

[Ronin]

How does public transit here in Vancouver manage to be so fucking terrible yet cost so much?

[Tomu]

^exactly my thought and I think it's because of population and population density that makes public transit pretty unsuccessful here.

I always compare Vancouver to Taipei because well, I'm from Taipei and I have first hand experience there with Taipei MRT. Fare for Taipei MRT has not increased for the past 15 years and yet they still profit every year from just fare ALONE. You guys can google this if don't believe :P. Not to mention it's cost nearly 30 billion USD to build it...and they aren't bleeding us dry with taxes.

Anyways all these new "lines" and buses simply don't attract crowds like Hong Kong, Taipei or Tokyo so what does Translink do? they tax the shit out of us. I think Translink really need to examine what kind of city Vancouver is.

And just like what dinosaur said above, unless they connect all those places like White Rock, Abbotsford etc we can't have a real complete transit system...and even then would it receive the ridership it needs to sustain it?...

[falcon]

I think he was talking about Kevin Falcon...

Wait, you mean there's another falcon?


lol, thanks for clearing that up.....

[falcon]

What is a "betch plox"? :confused:

bitch please :rukidding:

[falcon]

We need Light Rail out to Abby/Mission/White Rock/ the valley. Skytrain is not the answer. Or something like germanys "s bahn" which is basically a train that runs with regularity like our skytrain does.

[Death2Theft]

Exactly, not to mention they want to price the average family out of single family homes and into high density condos at high density mass transit stations. It's all part of the plan stan.
^^ So I'm paying more for a shittier standard of living?... :seriously: :rukidding: :fulloffuck:

[Gridlock]

I agree with Gridlock.


Well, its about damned time :)

[spyker]

We need Light Rail out to Abby/Mission/White Rock/ the valley. Skytrain is not the answer. Or something like germanys "s bahn" which is basically a train that runs with regularity like our skytrain does.

There are alot of things we need,but I and many others are sick of paying for this type of shit.

[falcon]

Well whether you agree or not, it's what we need. The rail is already there, build some stations, buy some trains and we could at least have a basic system pretty quickly.

[melloman]

We need Light Rail out to Abby/Mission/White Rock/ the valley. Skytrain is not the answer. Or something like germanys "s bahn" which is basically a train that runs with regularity like our skytrain does.

The Bahn.. I was in Estonia with a similar system of rail.. pretty much like we have from Granville Island to Science World, but it was their main way of transport from suburbs/country to the capital city.. (Country is 6hr drive diagnoally so not too big)

It could easily be done but that's not GREEN and clearly no one would then approve of that. We have to be GREEN and better then everybody else or we can't build it. Thus the Evergreen Line taking like 5 years to finally begin construction because no one wanted to pony up the RIDICULOUS amounts of money for it.

[tgill]

^exactly my thought and I think it's because of population and population density that makes public transit pretty unsuccessful here.

I always compare Vancouver to Taipei because well, I'm from Taipei and I have first hand experience there with Taipei MRT. Fare for Taipei MRT has not increased for the past 15 years and yet they still profit every year from just fare ALONE. You guys can google this if don't believe :P. Not to mention it's cost nearly 30 billion USD to build it...and they aren't bleeding us dry with taxes.

Anyways all these new "lines" and buses simply don't attract crowds like Hong Kong, Taipei or Tokyo so what does Translink do? they tax the shit out of us. I think Translink really need to examine what kind of city Vancouver is.

And just like what dinosaur said above, unless they connect all those places like White Rock, Abbotsford etc we can't have a real complete transit system...and even then would it receive the ridership it needs to sustain it?...
Just comparing area:
Metro Vancouver: 2,877.36 km2
Taipei: 271.7997 km2

Not to mention difference in labour, material, design standards, geographical constraints, and growth plans. Its pretty simple to understand the difference between Vancouver and most cities, and why it costs so much and is so difficult to provide transit.

Translink was so dry on cash the BC Govt cheaped on the Canada Line and went with the cheaper SNC-Lavlin bid. PPP operated transit, incompatible trains from the rest of the line, minimum number of trains needed, stations built to current capacity and most unable to expand for longer trains, etc...

[mikemhg]

MY mind is blown looking at some of the salaries of the top CEO, CFO, etc in the PUBLIC SECTOR! The CEO of BC Ferries has a $1,000,000 salary, some of the highest paid salaries in the province are at BC Ferries. BC fucking Ferries?! Are you kidding me? No wonder I'm paying $80 to take a ferry for 30 minutes with my car to the Sunshine Coast, and almost $200 to just visit Victoria with a vehicle. Can you fathom that you have to pay a quarter of a vacation to Mexico, just to take a car on a short ferry to the Capitol City of our province? Something is seriously missing here.

Mind fucking boggling. Instead of looking to tax us more, how about we drop some of these high end salaries, and look to implement cost savings from within these bloated Crown Corps?

My blood is boiling right now.

[Greenstoner]

offtopic but i went to renew my insurance yesterday

11 years accicdent free under my belt.

Reviewing my deductible.. not bad, 10 dollar discount here and there. That's cool.


BUT when i was reviewing my total, it was higher than what i was paying last year... look carefully again, yup, icbc increased the basic insurance rate by $90

great... im still paying more !!

[dbaz]

only road tolls i see that would work are highways. other than that tolling main roads is fucking ridiculous. all it will do is divert traffic to other roads effectively making them main roads in the future. would they then toll those as well, forcing people to once again find new routes?

[gars]

MY mind is blown looking at some of the salaries of the top CEO, CFO, etc in the PUBLIC SECTOR! The CEO of BC Ferries has a $1,000,000 salary, some of the highest paid salaries in the province are at BC Ferries. BC fucking Ferries?! Are you kidding me? No wonder I'm paying $80 to take a ferry for 30 minutes with my car to the Sunshine Coast, and almost $200 to just visit Victoria with a vehicle. Can you fathom that you have to pay a quarter of a vacation to Mexico, just to take a car on a short ferry to the Capitol City of our province? Something is seriously missing here.

Mind fucking boggling. Instead of looking to tax us more, how about we drop some of these high end salaries, and look to implement cost savings from within these bloated Crown Corps?

My blood is boiling right now.

The new CEO took a pay cut and will be making $564k. They're also phasing out long-term bonuses for senior executives and cut a senior position - so they're actually saving quite a bit of money every year.

$564k still seems like a lot of money, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to BC Ferry's budget of almost $800 million.

[Tapioca]

I imagine most people here want to continue the North American lifestyle of single family residences with 4 car garages into perpetuity. I get it - I grew up in one such home in East Van and if I won the lottery, I would buy one such home on the west side so that I could build my garage and have a stable of machines.

If you want good transit, then you have to sacrifice something. Living space and/or taxes. Sure you could fire the bureaucrats and have $10/hour monkeys drive the buses, but these are just minor issues.

If you want to continue automobile use, then you have to dismantle the agricultural land reserve regime, allow developers to build new subdivisions, and start expropriations of inner city neighbourhoods (think the Cassiar tunnel but multiply that 100 times) so our freeway system can be expanded.

Or you could continue the status quo with incremental changes over time so that people can adjust their lifestyles accordingly.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Hehe]

IMHO, GVR simply does not have the population or the density to support Translink.

Places like HK, Tokyo, Taipei or any other cities with very well developed subway or similar transportation system share one thing in common: they have the market size to support it.

GVR has around 800 people/km2 with 2.2M total. In comparison, Taipei has 2800/km2 with more than 8M, NYC has 2000/km2 with 18M, and Tokyo is over 6000/km2 with 13M.

Why is Vancouver making decisions like these hyper populated cities?

[dark0821]

lol i can imagine small business owners on the tolling roads will have an up rising cuz everyone is gonna drive down the next block

=.=

[Gridlock]

IMHO, GVR simply does not have the population or the density to support Translink.

Places like HK, Tokyo, Taipei or any other cities with very well developed subway or similar transportation system share one thing in common: they have the market size to support it.

GVR has around 800 people/km2 with 2.2M total. In comparison, Taipei has 2800/km2 with more than 8M, NYC has 2000/km2 with 18M, and Tokyo is over 6000/km2 with 13M.

Why is Vancouver making decisions like these hyper populated cities?

Bingo. Why we are building the evergreen line, I have no idea.

[MindBomber]

I imagine most people here want to continue the North American lifestyle of single family residences with 4 car garages into perpetuity. I get it - I grew up in one such home in East Van and if I won the lottery, I would buy one such home on the west side so that I could build my garage and have a stable of machines.

If you want good transit, then you have to sacrifice something. Living space and/or taxes. Sure you could fire the bureaucrats and have $10/hour monkeys drive the buses, but these are just minor issues.

If you want to continue automobile use, then you have to dismantle the agricultural land reserve regime, allow developers to build new subdivisions, and start expropriations of inner city neighbourhoods (think the Cassiar tunnel but multiply that 100 times) so our freeway system can be expanded.

Or you could continue the status quo with incremental changes over time so that people can adjust their lifestyles accordingly.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

That's quite an ignorant statement, you've obviously never attempted to drive a vehicle the size of a bus through downtown. Having done it myself many times, I can definitively say, I rather drive the Coquihalla through a white out with summer tires on a RWD car. Bus drivers earn every penny they make.

Your statements on dismantling ALR "regimes" is also completely illogical...
Not really sure where you were going with that.

[Tomu]

IMHO, GVR simply does not have the population or the density to support Translink.

Places like HK, Tokyo, Taipei or any other cities with very well developed subway or similar transportation system share one thing in common: they have the market size to support it.

GVR has around 800 people/km2 with 2.2M total. In comparison, Taipei has 2800/km2 with more than 8M, NYC has 2000/km2 with 18M, and Tokyo is over 6000/km2 with 13M.

Why is Vancouver making decisions like these hyper populated cities?

Yep so they tax the shit out of us to build all these lines and implement new buses and at the end the market and ridership simply does not support it. And every year when they need money for maintenance...guess whaaaattttt...yep more taxing woot

[RFlush]

IMHO, GVR simply does not have the population or the density to support Translink.

Places like HK, Tokyo, Taipei or any other cities with very well developed subway or similar transportation system share one thing in common: they have the market size to support it.

GVR has around 800 people/km2 with 2.2M total. In comparison, Taipei has 2800/km2 with more than 8M, NYC has 2000/km2 with 18M, and Tokyo is over 6000/km2 with 13M.

Why is Vancouver making decisions like these hyper populated cities?

Comparing HK transit to Vancouver transit is the most retarded thing ever (not saying you are saying it, just people in general who say it).

You guys all want cheap transit, cheap schooling, cheap housing but high salaries. First let's start with those complaining about paying high taxes. I find it ridiculously funny when people who are in university complaining about paying for public transit taxes when they drive. Most of the comments are "I don't use it, why should I pay for it?". Then the same people complain that education fees are too high and want it to be lowered. So what the fuck do you want? Do you think the people who do not go to universities want to pay for YOUR education as well? Would you rather see a 200% increase in tuition if you didn't have to pay any cost for public transit? Why is it you want things fair for you, but when it comes down to people helping you out, you want more? This applies to everything. This is Canada where we have great social programs and live in a society where we are taxed and help others even if we have no direct benefit.

Then we have people complaining the costs are too high but expect $10+ for working at McDonalds. Would you rather have lower salaries and lower costs as well? Would you want to work for $3.60 working at minimum wage but have cheaper transit etc?

Ok, let's look at HK for example. The minimum wage there is $3.60 per hour. The average income per person is $1,279.6 and the average household income is $2,559CDN per month. That HOUSEHOLD as well. As an average person, that is LESS than minimum wage in Canada. To cross the harbour, the rough MTR cost is $1.4CDN traveling for 10 mins. Driving in HK is a luxury, a high end one where not many people can afford. Gas is double of Vancouver, parking, and fees as well. I am sure majority of you enjoy driving. You have the option of driving for 10 mins to get to a location while taking public transit for 60mins, you will drive. It's the same here in HK but people are FORCED to take public transit. Some of you guys wouldn't. People like to just drive around in Vancouver for the hell of it, go for cruises etc. Yes, it is fun and its part of the lifestyle, but it just proves that people WANT to drive.

If everyone was willing to not drive, take public transportation then yes, the system will be better. But as long as the mentality is that "I would rather drive 10 mins and save 50mins" it will never work.

[RFlush]

MY mind is blown looking at some of the salaries of the top CEO, CFO, etc in the PUBLIC SECTOR! The CEO of BC Ferries has a $1,000,000 salary, some of the highest paid salaries in the province are at BC Ferries. BC fucking Ferries?! Are you kidding me? No wonder I'm paying $80 to take a ferry for 30 minutes with my car to the Sunshine Coast, and almost $200 to just visit Victoria with a vehicle. Can you fathom that you have to pay a quarter of a vacation to Mexico, just to take a car on a short ferry to the Capitol City of our province? Something is seriously missing here.

Mind fucking boggling. Instead of looking to tax us more, how about we drop some of these high end salaries, and look to implement cost savings from within these bloated Crown Corps?

My blood is boiling right now.
Then why don't YOU work as a CEO for BC Ferries or in the public sector? Obviously they are paid well because the demand and supply warrants it.

[Hehe]

Most of the comments are "I don't use it, why should I pay for it?".

The problem is not about paying it. It's about if it was a good expense to begin with.

GVR is big and we have very little population in this city. Instead of making all the taxes to build something that only a fraction of population in GVR can use, why not check if there's any other alternative that's better suited for the local economy?

Translink keeps losing money for a reason. They can't achieve the economy of scale required to break even. And the problem is that we didn't even have the scale to begin with. The more population Translink tries to reach, the more money it would lose.

Translink charges $4.xx for a trip for 3-zone and loses money. The subway in Beijing, China is 30 cents and it's profitable. Last time I checked, GDP/PPP in Van isn't over 10x of that in Beijing.

[RFlush]

Translink charges $4.xx for a trip for 3-zone and loses money. The subway in Beijing, China is 30 cents and it's profitable. Last time I checked, GDP/PPP in Van isn't over 10x of that in Beijing.

Majority of people in BJ can't afford cars or public transport which is why they need to make it 30cents. Not only that, it encourages people to take the transit. Even if transit is FREE in Vancouver, people won't take it. If you need further proof of that, look at all the university students who have a UPASS but STILL drive to school. Yes, it may be 1 to take a bus, but guess what, that's how long it takes in "better" public transportation cities as well.

[minoru_tanaka]

IMHO, GVR simply does not have the population or the density to support Translink.

Places like HK, Tokyo, Taipei or any other cities with very well developed subway or similar transportation system share one thing in common: they have the market size to support it.

GVR has around 800 people/km2 with 2.2M total. In comparison, Taipei has 2800/km2 with more than 8M, NYC has 2000/km2 with 18M, and Tokyo is over 6000/km2 with 13M.

Why is Vancouver making decisions like these hyper populated cities?
What's worst is we spend hundreds of millions of dollars to ship people into downtown from places of low density while downtown has 3 stations on the Expo line.

See the TO subway map. The subway does a loop of downtown so people who live downtown don't need to drive. AFAIK their subway pays for itself.

http://subway.umka.org/maps/toronto.gif


Then why don't YOU work as a CEO for BC Ferries or in the public sector? Obviously they are paid well because the demand and supply warrants it.

You're being sarcastic right?

[falcon]

The Bahn.. I was in Estonia with a similar system of rail.. pretty much like we have from Granville Island to Science World, but it was their main way of transport from suburbs/country to the capital city.. (Country is 6hr drive diagnoally so not too big)

It could easily be done but that's not GREEN and clearly no one would then approve of that. We have to be GREEN and better then everybody else or we can't build it. Thus the Evergreen Line taking like 5 years to finally begin construction because no one wanted to pony up the RIDICULOUS amounts of money for it.

It can quite easily be green. But to do so it would need to be electric like the urban trains in Europe. The trains here in South Bavaria are diesel.

[falcon]

Bingo. Why we are building the evergreen line, I have no idea.

I don't agree. It's more the mentality here than the density. I've been to much less dense areas and tons of people take the train/transit. At the end of the day, it comes down to convenience and efficiency. If it cost less to take transit, took less time and I could sit and lounge for an hour rather than be in traffic I would do it in a heartbeat. But we have the N/A mentality of 'need to drive everywhere.'

[falcon]

Most of the comments are "I don't use it, why should I pay for it?".

Part of living in a socialist country. Don't like it? Leave.

[Tapioca]

That's quite an ignorant statement, you've obviously never attempted to drive a vehicle the size of a bus through downtown. Having done it myself many times, I can definitively say, I rather drive the Coquihalla through a white out with summer tires on a RWD car. Bus drivers earn every penny they make.

Your statements on dismantling ALR "regimes" is also completely illogical...
Not really sure where you were going with that.

I was actually trying to be facetious.

There's a ton of ignorance in this thread. Bus drivers make 50K a year and I know it's a tough job - most people on here don't know that though. And dismantling the ALR is of course ridiculous too, but you know, people on here seem to think that density is a waste of time and a retarded idea. But, what is the alternative? Continuing the growth of single family residential?

Most people are bitching about being taxed to death and Translink overstepping its bounds. Great. But no one is posing alternatives. Build more freeways? Sit and do nothing? (and sit through traffic in on the No.1 in the morning and evening.) People are moving to the suburbs because it's more affordable, so how do you accommodate that growth? No one has proposed anything.

[Gridlock]

The other thing that hasn't been touched on is the fact that Translinks budget problems are not solely their own. They have responsibility for roads as well as public transport. For that, they get an assigned budget as well as income from transport.

As the roads generate no income, and the gov't dictates how much they get, they really are kind of up against the wall. They only have control over their income from buses. Of which, even that is regulated.

So here is my problem. The provincial government wants to promote a low tax rate, and doesn't send them enough to provide for reasonable growth and investment. This leaves them constantly short. Thus, we need to start looking at stupid fees and tolls.

So we can sit there and say, our tax rate is 5%, but really its closer to 10 when you add in fees and tolls and other bullshit.

My answer is, maybe we can't afford it. The evergreen line will be a beautiful addition to the system I'm sure. I can think of many wonderful additions to the transportation system. Extend the expo line into Surrey. Branch it into Langley.

My point is, I'm at about 'here'(ok, its text, so you can't see, but my hand is at my head :) with new taxes levies fees and shit for everything. It's choking the province off at the wrong area, and we won't be able to pay for a damned thing if we don't focus on growth, instead of nickle and diming the population to pay for nice things that we obviously can't afford right now.

[melloman]

@Tap: There isn't much to porpose.. I can agree.

Translink keeps losing money for a reason. They can't achieve the economy of scale required to break even. And the problem is that we didn't even have the scale to begin with. The more population Translink tries to reach, the more money it would lose.

That is one of the smartest statements I have heard.
Sure it doesn't offer any solutions but it's the goddamn truth.

I haven't looked into the WestCoast Express' funds to see if they hit a profit or not, but why not build something like that for Vancouver to Delta/Surrey/Whiterock/Langley/Abbotsford/Chiliwack?

[Ax2-Y]

does anyone have any insight as to why the new sea to sky highway wasn't tolled after it opened? a toll booth just after the horseshoe bay ferry terminal would have made tens of millions of dollars by now. i highly doubt anyone would object to paying a couple dollars on their way up to whistler (which is, in my opinion, a luxury)

[gars]

does anyone have any insight as to why the new sea to sky highway wasn't tolled after it opened? a toll booth just after the horseshoe bay ferry terminal would have made tens of millions of dollars by now. i highly doubt anyone would object to paying a couple dollars on their way up to whistler (which is, in my opinion, a luxury)

The new sea-to-sky highway expansion was partly paid for by the federal gov't. We didn't need the toll to fund the expansion - it would've been very unpopular as well.

[Hehe]

Majority of people in BJ can't afford cars or public transport which is why they need to make it 30cents.

:rukidding:

Beijing has to make a lottery system to prevent all the people buying cars.

The idea of "many Chinese can't afford xx goods" is still true. But in major cities like Beijing or Shanghai... this is far from the truth.

[gars]

:rukidding:

Beijing has to make a lottery system to prevent all the people buying cars.

The idea of "many Chinese can't afford xx goods" is still true. But in major cities like Beijing or Shanghai... this is far from the truth.

There are about 23 million people who live in Shanghai. The vast majority of them make the average wage which is 3000rmb a month. Yes, there are people who make quite a bit more than that, but an even larger number of people who make less than that.

[Lomac]

Just a thought. The government is pilfering ICBC's coffers to pay for other things. Why not divert those funds to Translink? Id personally be fine with that. It's already extra money Im paying in mostly "services" so why not turn them into something drivers use or can use as an alternative?
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[Tapioca]

^ It probably can't be done for political reasons. ICBC serves the entire province so as long as its profits are used to subsidize services that apply to the entire province (ie health care), then this course of action won't raise any outcries.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Hehe]

There are about 23 million people who live in Shanghai. The vast majority of them make the average wage which is 3000rmb a month. Yes, there are people who make quite a bit more than that, but an even larger number of people who make less than that.

It doesn't matter. We still have the fact that Translink can't break even.

And they keep on planning expansions worth billions even knowing the additional revenue they get from these expansions would be no where near to sustain itself.

It makes no financial sense: present or future as Vancouver simply won't grow 10x the population any time soon.

So, what do they do? they collect additional taxes as their "income." This is not gonna work in the long run. It means that when people get enough of these taxes and start to oppose them, what is Translink gonna do? Post billion dollar worth of deficit and wait the public to bail them out or simply go private? What kind of benefit do any of these options bring to the locals?

[falcon]

@Tap: There isn't much to porpose.. I can agree.



That is one of the smartest statements I have heard.
Sure it doesn't offer any solutions but it's the goddamn truth.

I haven't looked into the WestCoast Express' funds to see if they hit a profit or not, but why not build something like that for Vancouver to Delta/Surrey/Whiterock/Langley/Abbotsford/Chiliwack?

That would be more or less what I suggested in the prior page and on par with what they have here in Europe.

[falcon]

A rail system that would run with one or two stops in each city (depending on the size) would be great. Start it in Langley then to White Rock, Ladner, Steveston/Richmond, S. Van, E. Van then Downtown. A light rail system dosen't need stops as frequent as Skytrain. People would take the bus/bike/drive to the station and then have a fast connection to Vancouver or the Valley via a rail system that has only a small amount of stops. Start small, then grow over th enext who knows, 30-40 years. Have to start somewhere.

[Death2Theft]

Since the west coast express already drops people onto the main street skytrain all they would need to do is run more trains and have additional stop in each city.
A rail system that would run with one or two stops in each city (depending on the size) would be great. Start it in Langley then to White Rock, Ladner, Steveston/Richmond, S. Van, E. Van then Downtown. A light rail system dosen't need stops as frequent as Skytrain. People would take the bus/bike/drive to the station and then have a fast connection to Vancouver or the Valley via a rail system that has only a small amount of stops. Start small, then grow over th enext who knows, 30-40 years. Have to start somewhere.

[goo3]

Most people are bitching about being taxed to death and Translink overstepping its bounds. Great. But no one is posing alternatives. Build more freeways? Sit and do nothing? (and sit through traffic in on the No.1 in the morning and evening.) People are moving to the suburbs because it's more affordable, so how do you accommodate that growth? No one has proposed anything.

Before some random person proposes something (pulled from their ass) for the suburbs, translink already studied a list of alternatives:

Surrey Rapid Transit Study (http://www.translink.ca/en/Be-Part-of-the-Plan/Rapid-Transit-Projects/Surrey-Rapid-Transit-Study.aspx)

If you only care about cost, the NPV (Future Cost - Rev) in 2010 $ for each alternative is included in the Evaluation Summary pdf. Obviously, they all lose money.

[Lomac]

^ It probably can't be done for political reasons. ICBC serves the entire province so as long as its profits are used to subsidize services that apply to the entire province (ie health care), then this course of action won't raise any outcries.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

There's a workaround for that. We all get charged a different amount for insurance based on where we live. If everyone paying premiums for living in the GVRD has those extra charges be transfered to Translink, that would certainly help a bit. ICBC is making huge profits as it is (I know it's supposed to be a "non-profit" entity, but you can't deal with insurance without having a large slush fund in case of a bad winter or something), so there's always options that can be looked at.

[Gridlock]

There's a workaround for that. We all get charged a different amount for insurance based on where we live. If everyone paying premiums for living in the GVRD has those extra charges be transfered to Translink, that would certainly help a bit. ICBC is making huge profits as it is (I know it's supposed to be a "non-profit" entity, but you can't deal with insurance without having a large slush fund in case of a bad winter or something), so there's always options that can be looked at.

Nope. Their profits are already contributed to the provincial books. As we are currently operating at a deficit, those profits are already being spent, mostly on health and education.