[F30]

My friend is taking beginner Mandarin class at UBC (which will count towards his degree). My situation is different as I am well past the the University stage in life but I would like to to start learning Mandarin. I have never taken any courses before.

Here are my options (from what I have researched so far):

1) Take classes either from SFU or UBC.
2) Listen to language audio recordings in car (after work etc.) - this I tried with minimum results.
3) Find classes in Richmond (I assume there are many) that do not provide any certification but have smaller grops, better teachers and better pricing... (for example: Mandarin Classes Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby, Coquitlam, Surrey, Abbotsford etc (http://keylanguagetraining.com/Courses.aspx))

This is where RS comes in...

Did any of you take beginner Mandarin? Especially non-Chinese members, if you did, do you mind sharing where and what was your experience? I'm looking for some suggestions in addition to my Google-search.

Cheers.

[TheNewGirl]

If you don't need it for credit for anything you could also try at one of the collages, I was looking at taking some language classes at Douglas.

The audio tapes are great for tuning your ear to a language but I think they really need to be reinforced with actual instruction.

[FerrariEnzo]

just pickup a rich mandarin speaking chick...:fuckyea:

[ForbiddenX]

I haven't actually tried this yet but there's a program called Rosetta Stone that helps teach languages. I've read that it's good and I've been meaning to try it for Japanese or French.

Learn Chinese (Mandarin) | Speak Chinese | Learn Chinese with Rosetta Stone® (http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-chinese)

[StylinRed]

My friend is taking beginner Mandarin class at UBC (which will count towards his degree). My situation is different as I am well past the the University stage in life but I would like to to start learning Mandarin. I have never taken any courses before.

Here are my options (from what I have researched so far):

1) Take classes either from SFU or UBC.
2) Listen to language audio recordings in car (after work etc.) - this I tried with minimum results.
3) Find classes in Richmond (I assume there are many) that do not provide any certification but have smaller grops, better teachers and better pricing... (for example: Mandarin Classes Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby, Coquitlam, Surrey, Abbotsford etc (http://keylanguagetraining.com/Courses.aspx))

This is where RS comes in...

Did any of you take beginner Mandarin? Especially non-Chinese members, if you did, do you mind sharing where and what was your experience? I'm looking for some suggestions in addition to my Google-search.

Cheers.


Ive knowledge of mandarin classes @ douglas college, convinced a gf to take some there and subsequently a friend (who's a realtor and wanted to pick it up)

the teacher is actually a white guy, Ralph Lake, and he's surprisingly, surprisingly good

the classes are split into 2 one where he teaches and makes you speak and a conversation lab with another teacher where you hone your skills


the gf got really good amazingly fast (shes white) and well quite frankly so did my friend (not as good but rather good) the pace which they picked it up was excellent

i understand there's like 3 levels (courses) to take the gf only took level 1 and my friend went on to lvl 2

you can buy the course material from the school bookstore which is like $15 and it teaches you pin-yin and a lot of words highly worth it even if you dont take the course (oh yeah the course teaches you how to write words too)

seeing how well people i know have learned from taking the course @ douglas im always quick to suggest it and support people going there

i sat in a few classes with the girl and the teacher is really top notch and enthusiastic; its filled with chinese students there to get some free credit but there were quite a few white/japanese/indian ppl too who seemed to really enjoy it

since you're in Coquitlam anyways it should really work out perfectly for you



id also suggest downloading Rosetta Stone too and try out the lessons ive used it for other languages and its quite amazing i can only imagine the mandarin lessons are just as good


side note, you're never too old to learn or go back to shcool

side note 2, this website should assist you greatly regardless where you take your lessons http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/ you also may want to check out some smartphone apps that teach you the language regardless of the smartphone platform you're on there's a plethora of apps to get

[LuHua]

If you're going to attempt it at all I'd suggest you just take a course. The Douglas one sounds good. The main thing about learning a new language, particularly one that's very different from yours, is practice and interaction. You're going to need to hear it spoken in person, and try speaking it with others.

[will068]

How about getting Rosetta Stone ?

[artmotion]

Have you thought about just going to regular night schools (continuing education)? I think a couple districts like Richmond and Burnaby offer these programs and I'm guessing Coquitlam might as well:

Richmond Continuing Education - Mandarin (http://ce.sd38.bc.ca/Courses/Mandarin/Home%20Page)
Burnaby Community & Continuing Education | BCCE (http://www.burnabycce.ca/languages.php#ma)

[Redlines_Daily]

My friend is taking beginner Mandarin class at UBC (which will count towards his degree). My situation is different as I am well past the the University stage in life but I would like to to start learning Mandarin. I have never taken any courses before.

Here are my options (from what I have researched so far):

1) Take classes either from SFU or UBC.
2) Listen to language audio recordings in car (after work etc.) - this I tried with minimum results.
3) Find classes in Richmond (I assume there are many) that do not provide any certification but have smaller grops, better teachers and better pricing... (for example: Mandarin Classes Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby, Coquitlam, Surrey, Abbotsford etc (http://keylanguagetraining.com/Courses.aspx))

This is where RS comes in...

Did any of you take beginner Mandarin? Especially non-Chinese members, if you did, do you mind sharing where and what was your experience? I'm looking for some suggestions in addition to my Google-search.

Cheers.

I have used all of the methods you listed, they all have their positives and negatives:

1) College classes are good to learn grammar and develop a solid structure, but they can be a bit impersonal, and lack the oral practice you might get from a smaller class.

2) Language audio recordings are a great way to practice listening/speaking but often lack the structure of a well organized class. I recommend using this in addition to a class.

3) IMO, these smaller language schools are the best option. They often tailor the lessons to what you want to learn. Coincidentally, I have actually used Key Language Training (the link you provided) and I was very happy with them. The owner Suzanne is a chinese lady who is very fun and experienced. Her daughter also helps teach sometimes, and she is hot as fuck.

You can also find private tutors on CL, I have one who is only $10/hr and she is not bad. There is also a mandarin meetup group that meets a few times a month, they are all levels of speakers and its a great way to practice.

If you want to learn a language, you really need to immerse yourself in it..spend some time every day studying and practicing. I remember when I was a beginner I put labels on all the items in my house in pinyin (door knob, wall, toothbrush, tv, etc...). Let me know if you want help contacting a tutor or a specific program. I am actually headed to China on Friday to do a 2 month mandarin immersion program!

good luck with your studies!

[falcon]

I haven't actually tried this yet but there's a program called Rosetta Stone that helps teach languages. I've read that it's good and I've been meaning to try it for Japanese or French.

Learn Chinese (Mandarin) | Speak Chinese | Learn Chinese with Rosetta Stone® (http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-chinese)

Rosetta Stone has been invaluble for me while in Germany. The best part about it is it's picture based so you learn to associate things with an image rather than learning the language as an English -> Mandarin translation which will constantly make you translate things in your head before speaking. It has word recognition and everything.

[F30]

Thank you all very much for your responses and suggestions. I have the tapes and will continue supplementing my learning with them. I've contacted "key language" and hope to start something with them. I will look into Douglas college course as well.

Redlines_daily: what kind of immersion program are you attending? I'd love to learn more from your experiences.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Redlines_Daily]

Learn Mandarin Chinese in China at One of the Top Chinese Languages Schools in China - Keats School (http://www.keatsschool.com/) <- this is the school I will be attending

It's 4 hours a day of 1-to-1 mandarin instruction. They try to make it an immersion like environment, but you are allowed to speak English if you like.

As for audio, I went through all 3 levels of the Pimsleur method, it is really good - highly recommend! You can find them on bittorrent, or I can give you my copies if you want them.

[wouwou]

Dude just hit up westmall at SFU. Mandarin is like the other offcial language there.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StylinRed]

Thank you all very much for your responses and suggestions. I have the tapes and will continue supplementing my learning with them. I've contacted "key language" and hope to start something with them. I will look into Douglas college course as well.

Redlines_daily: what kind of immersion program are you attending? I'd love to learn more from your experiences.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Learn Mandarin Chinese in China at One of the Top Chinese Languages Schools in China - Keats School (http://www.keatsschool.com/) <- this is the school I will be attending



If you have the time for something like that, Douglas College has a summer abroad in China as i understand it where you learn 2 levels of mandarin as well im not sure on the particulars of it though as i simply heard from the girl as an "aw shucks we could have..." might be cheaper dunno

Redlines brings up a good point about class sizes @ douglas there was like 20ppl

smaller groups or 1on1s might be something to consider

[yot065]

should lemme know how it goes and did you learn it easily :troll: born and raised in vancouver, living under a roof where my parents can only speak chinese. and my chinese is the most white washed crap ever :alone: need to improve my chinese... even the asian girls find it funny i cant speak chinese :'( cant get my own race lulzzzz

[F30]

Learn Mandarin Chinese in China at One of the Top Chinese Languages Schools in China - Keats School (http://www.keatsschool.com/) <- this is the school I will be attending

It's 4 hours a day of 1-to-1 mandarin instruction. They try to make it an immersion like environment, but you are allowed to speak English if you like.

As for audio, I went through all 3 levels of the Pimsleur method, it is really good - highly recommend! You can find them on bittorrent, or I can give you my copies if you want them.


I got a call back from Suzanne and am signing up for her class starting this month. This should kick start the learning process.

It may be a hard sell, when I ask my boss to give me a few months off to learn Mandarin. That said, the immersion seems the only way to learn a new language within a reasonable amount of time.

Cheers.

[SkinnyPupp]

Rosetta Stone looks good.. they have Swahili and Pashto but not Cantonese :rukidding:

[F30]

I already have Pimsleur recordings, so I don't feel like spending the $$ on Rosetta Stone at this time. I am having high hopes that a combo of classes and Pimsleur will get me to a conversational "level".

[TheKingdom2000]

One of the smartest girls in my high school class took chinese school at killarney for a couple years. (once a week)
She is half white/chinese.

After all of that time and effort she still couldn't learn it...So ymmv

And Rosetta Stone doesn't have Cantonese because it's not very helpful in my opinion. In this day in age if you were to learn a language, it should English and then Mandarin. Far more possibilities with Mandarin imo.

[Redlines_Daily]

I got a call back from Suzanne and am signing up for her class starting this month. This should kick start the learning process.

It may be a hard sell, when I ask my boss to give me a few months off to learn Mandarin. That said, the immersion seems the only way to learn a new language within a reasonable amount of time.

Cheers.

That's awesome man, you can make your class go a lot smoother if you learn pinyin now before it starts

[StylinRed]

Rosetta Stone looks good.. they have Swahili and Pashto but not Cantonese :rukidding:

cantos a dialect, i dont think rosetta does dialects, and within that dialect there are further variations
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Yue_Dialects.png
the orangey-brown ones is canto as you know it in HK all the variations combined equate to 56million worldwide (i imagine there's much more now as those nnumbers are from waaaaaaaaaay back)

pashto is an official language and over 60million people speak it
swahili is as well around 41million (800k+ only as 1st language)

[Culture_Vulture]

Take it at a college first, a few semesters would suffice. Somebody mentioned Douglas College, which is a pretty solid/cheap place to start.

Then once you have some basics, go backpacking in a Mandarin speaking part of Asia for a month.

Come back= speak fluent Mandarin.

[SkinnyPupp]

cantos a dialect, i dont think rosetta does dialects, and within that dialect there are further variations
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Yue_Dialects.png
the orangey-brown ones is canto as you know it in HK all the variations combined equate to 56million worldwide (i imagine there's much more now as those nnumbers are from waaaaaaaaaay back)

pashto is an official language and over 60million people speak it
swahili is as well around 41million (800k+ only as 1st language)

While different languages are useful for different people (which is why I failed mx703 for his stupid comment) you would have to admit that cantonese would be more useful to more people than swahili and pashto. Whether it's a dialect (like mandarin is, and Dari the Afghan dialect of persian spoken by 20 million or so which is not as much as Farsi Persian which they also offer) or not.

[yray]

Cantonese is really hard to learn on tape with so many tones which can have multiple expressions. A learner would literally need to be surrounded by canto users everyday before he/she would be able to learn it some how. Mando on the other hand is easier with pin yin, you can say its more scientific?

Good thing about canto is you go to any chinatown in the world, majority there should speak canto.

[SkinnyPupp]

Cantonese is really hard to learn on tape with so many tones which can have multiple expressions. A learner would literally need to be surrounded by canto users everyday before he/she would be able to learn it some how. Mando on the other hand is easier with pin yin, you can say its more scientific?

Good thing about canto is you go to any chinatown in the world, majority there should speak canto.

I live in HK and my wife speaks it (hence why I want to learn it) so actually I think it would be doable. If I had taken the time to do actual lessons, I'd probably be fluent by now :okay:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[StaxBundlez]

learn mandarin?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114185304/icarly/images/3/37/Impossibru.jpg

[Meowjin]

Rosetta Stone looks good.. they have Swahili and Pashto but not Cantonese :rukidding:

as a white person learning canto right now, this is the harder than greek. And greek is fucking hard (pluralization is all based on the word and every word is different not on adding an s to the end of words)

im probably gonna switch to mandarin. But judging on my career path right now, I think i'd be ok learning russian or slavic.

[Oleophobic]

I live in HK and my wife speaks it (hence why I want to learn it) so actually I think it would be doable. If I had taken the time to do actual lessons, I'd probably be fluent by now :okay:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

No offense but you've lived in HK for so long and yet you're still not fluent? :rukidding:

[Meowjin]

he's white you racist

[Oleophobic]

I know he's white what's your point?

[SkinnyPupp]

Yes and my car has a giant vinyl sticker of the Canadian flag on it. :troll:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[rsx]

I had Rosetta Stone Mandarin and it was pretty solid, I slacked off though and I forgot stuff. The main thing is you need to practice with people, otherwise you're never going to learn.

[Drow]

@ ppl who say cantonese is hard

yes i would imagine how fucking gay it would be to learn this as a second language without any experience in chinese. It's really hard to "learn" cantonese. With the way they teach you it in books and professionally, you'd pretty much learn to speak sentences that are basically mandarin sentences spoken out in the cantonese form. For those who don't understand wtf i'm talking, it means like the letters of our alphabet being spoken in another way. there are still 26 letters in the alphabet, A is still in the beginning of the alphabet, but instead of sounding like "A", you pronounce it differently.

Also if you were to learn cantonese straight from the book, when you speak canto to other cantonese people they'd think youre the biggest fob ever. that is because you don't speak the traditional canto (which is written in serious chinese newspapers), cantonese people speak SLANG cantonese. I doubt there are any professional courses or books which teach slang cantonese. The only real way to learn and master slang cantonese is to hang out with fucking hongers or watch TVB like a little honger you are.

[falcon]

I already have Pimsleur recordings, so I don't feel like spending the $$ on Rosetta Stone at this time. I am having high hopes that a combo of classes and Pimsleur will get me to a conversational "level".

Spend money? Lolz... :whistle:

[StaxBundlez]

http://recit.essb.qc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Rosetta-Stone.jpg

does this actually work?

[falcon]

Yes.

[RabidRat]

@ ppl who say cantonese is hard

yes i would imagine how fucking gay it would be to learn this as a second language without any experience in chinese. It's really hard to "learn" cantonese. With the way they teach you it in books and professionally, you'd pretty much learn to speak sentences that are basically mandarin sentences spoken out in the cantonese form. For those who don't understand wtf i'm talking, it means like the letters of our alphabet being spoken in another way. there are still 26 letters in the alphabet, A is still in the beginning of the alphabet, but instead of sounding like "A", you pronounce it differently.

Also if you were to learn cantonese straight from the book, when you speak canto to other cantonese people they'd think youre the biggest fob ever. that is because you don't speak the traditional canto (which is written in serious chinese newspapers), cantonese people speak SLANG cantonese. I doubt there are any professional courses or books which teach slang cantonese. The only real way to learn and master slang cantonese is to hang out with fucking hongers or watch TVB like a little honger you are.

Actually despite being failed I think you have a point here. Conversational Cantonese (what you'd actually want to learn) is entirely different from written Cantonese and that might be one of the reasons it doesn't show up in Rosetta Stone - it'd be kinda hard to teach. Cantonese is my first language and I speak it every day at home, but I'm still shit at it and get called out on it all the time =p

[drunkrussian]

as a white person learning canto right now, this is the harder than greek. And greek is fucking hard (pluralization is all based on the word and every word is different not on adding an s to the end of words)

im probably gonna switch to mandarin. But judging on my career path right now, I think i'd be ok learning russian or slavic.

russian? does your career path involve smuggling smoked fish? we must talk
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[F30]

There are many people out there who are probably interested in this topic. I'd appreciate keeping on topic to keep this thread helpful to others.

In turn, I'll try to post infrequent updates of my experiences. This morning I've registered for a course with Key Language and will start in two weeks time.

Thanks for all helpful comments!

[TheNewGirl]

Actually despite being failed I think you have a point here. Conversational Cantonese (what you'd actually want to learn) is entirely different from written Cantonese and that might be one of the reasons it doesn't show up in Rosetta Stone - it'd be kinda hard to teach. Cantonese is my first language and I speak it every day at home, but I'm still shit at it and get called out on it all the time =p

This can be said of any language though. I work with someone who's first language is french (France French not Quebec French) and she gets annoyed with what she calls the 'rigidness' of the way I speak french because it's book learned. ShTo her ear it sounds as artificial and forced as English would if someone was speaking like they were reading an Oxford dictionary all the time.

Listening to French radio and French TV taught me the cadence of the language and more comfortable word use better than a text book ever could - though though early learning experiences really helped me digest what I was listening to to begin with. That's why the Pimsleur method works better too for most people, because it focuses on a more natural audio learning method (though how casual it is depends on the source, some are very conversational while others are more formal).

[Drow]

@ the people who failed my post above, care to elaborate where you disagree with my post?

Either

1) you dont agree with the difficulty i see in cantonese

Or

2) youre butthurt cuz i called you a honger


Come forward, bro

[NSX]

Ive been taking it at Langara every saturday with instructor Betty Tu. She is an awesome instructor. A lot of students transfer to her as her personality is more suited for beginners.

[SkinnyPupp]

Actually despite being failed I think you have a point here. Conversational Cantonese (what you'd actually want to learn) is entirely different from written Cantonese and that might be one of the reasons it doesn't show up in Rosetta Stone - it'd be kinda hard to teach. Cantonese is my first language and I speak it every day at home, but I'm still shit at it and get called out on it all the time =p
He made a good point actually, and like someone else said, it is like that for most languages. But Cantonese especially. The way he started calling down Hong Kong people like an ignorant cunt is why he earned his fails.

[Drow]

He made a good point actually, and like someone else said, it is like that for most languages. But Cantonese especially. The way he started calling down Hong Kong people like an ignorant cunt is why he earned his fails.

im apologize if i said watching TVB makes you a little honger :smug:

[F30]

The Key Language course is almost over, just one more class left. I am very happy with the results, it certainly provided me with a foundation to keep building up both the grammar and vocabulary. I would recommend it to people who are considering learning Mandarin.

[TheKingdom2000]

The Key Language course is almost over, just one more class left. I am very happy with the results, it certainly provided me with a foundation to keep building up both the grammar and vocabulary. I would recommend it to people who are considering learning Mandarin.

What is your ethnicity?
And can you give some more details on your results?

Also, do you have a forum where you can practice Mandarin?

[F30]

What is your ethnicity?
And can you give some more details on your results?

Also, do you have a forum where you can practice Mandarin?

I'm a white guy :).

Results... hard to be specific, but I can order a drink at the restaurant, tell my girl that I miss her, welcome people to my home, describe my family, nationality etc. I've learned pinyin enough to be able to learn new words. From just once a week over 2 mo classes, that feels like a decent achievement.

[TheKingdom2000]

I'm a white guy :).

Results... hard to be specific, but I can order a drink at the restaurant, tell my girl that I miss her, welcome people to my home, describe my family, nationality etc. I've learned pinyin enough to be able to learn new words. From just once a week over 2 mo classes, that feels like a decent achievement.

That's pretty impressive.
Congrats on the success.

[$_$]

The Key Language course is almost over, just one more class left. I am very happy with the results, it certainly provided me with a foundation to keep building up both the grammar and vocabulary. I would recommend it to people who are considering learning Mandarin.

I've heard nothing but good things about Key Language Training. I know the director personally and she comes from a background of teaching, and is very passionate about what she does. She's fluent in English, Mandarin, Cantonese, and French and has licenses to do Mandarin-English, Mandarin-French translations. Sometimes I catch glimpses of her or her teachers classes, and they are always very nice and friendly, and always keep things pretty casual so that you can learn things that you want (lol, i've actually seen a guy ask about what to say to flirt with girls- but it was one of those ABC types so probably not you). I know she even does corporate lessons targeted especially for businesses and/or real estate so that you can do better businesses in Vancouver. Definitely check them out if you are thinking of taking Mandarin classes.

[drunkrussian]

I'm a white guy :).

Results... hard to be specific, but I can order a drink at the restaurant, tell my girl that I miss her, welcome people to my home, describe my family, nationality etc. I've learned pinyin enough to be able to learn new words. From just once a week over 2 mo classes, that feels like a decent achievement.

how much did it cost??

[F30]

I think it was $300. You can look it up on their website, it's listed under courses. Apparently they do one on one too, but groups are so small that I didn't see the need.

[Redlines_Daily]

...Also, do you have a forum where you can practice Mandarin?

Maybe we should start a RS mandarin meetup group? :D

[yray]

Maybe we should start a RS mandarin meetup group? :D

and invite niu99? :awwyeah:

[drunkrussian]

bump

anyone know a place in lower mainland to learn CANTONESE? key language seems to be mandarin only

[c3m]

^
Depends on how well you know Canto

The Chinese Cultural Center of Greater Vancouver have some courses in Coquitlam/Vancouver/Richmond
http://www.cccvan.com/education_en.html

but if you want to be fluent with slang and not sound like you speaking out of a text book then just go watch some TVB shows and look at the Chinese subtitles

[Tim Budong]

Skinnypupp
u can laugh all you want on this one..
do ask carlos douh, that youtube guy to give you some pointers in learning cantonese.

hes a chill dude and encourages these things.

[drunkrussian]

i am noob level, absolutely know nothing in chinese. The link from cccvan - they offer courses starting in february, but i'd like to learn now, so that won't work i think. Looking for a formal lesson sorta thing

who's carlos douh?..

[LP700-4]

^Youtube it. Some white guy that lived in HK for a long ass time and has better canto than me being chinese.

[winson604]

+1 for Rosetta Stone. I've had a couple people use it and it worked quite well for them.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Ulic's mandarin plan:

get some basic professional lessons. learn some fuckin pinyin cuz that's all you'll need.

forget about learning characters, cuz you'll never succeed in that area.

get many mainlander/taiwanese girlfriends that prefer to speak chinese. verbal mandarin will improve sexponentially.

move to china, fuck lots of girls and make tons of money.

come back to vancouver, throw money at common people and spit on the ground.

congrats, now you have become awesome. hahaha..

[drunkrussian]

^ have lived in a war torn israel during the gulf war before. would rather live there durijg a constant threat of war than live in china at its most prosperous state. not joking. ill take the bitches u speak pf tho

[Hehe]

I think the key of learning a language is immersion. You just have to make yourself fit into the particular language.

I used to travel to certain countries just to get a grip on their language... two month in Italy, another two in Brazil... etc. and used my spanish as foundation to those European languages.

Not that I'm fluent in those languages now, but I can carry a casual conversation without much difficulty.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

^ have lived in a war torn israel during the gulf war before. would rather live there durijg a constant threat of war than live in china at its most prosperous state. not joking. ill take the bitches u speak pf tho

what? why?

that's just pure ignorance.

I'm looking to move there.

[drunkrussian]

what? why?

that's just pure ignorance.

I'm looking to move there.

lol i was being a bit dramatic, not THAT serious. haha but personally the culture is not for me - people are rude, always in a rush, everything is about class, everything is about materialism, can't own a car unless you're loaded, too crowded etc. China is obviously not the place like this, and obviously it's for some people, just not for me

[Hehe]

lol i was being a bit dramatic, not THAT serious. haha but personally the culture is not for me - people are rude, always in a rush, everything is about class, everything is about materialism, can't own a car unless you're loaded, too crowded etc. China is obviously not the place like this, and obviously it's for some people, just not for me

I would second this...

I have been in China a lot lately for a project. And there is not enough salary you could pay me to live there.

This was in Beijing and Shanghai... luckily, my clients cover all my flights (in business class :fullofwin:) and I am there only when it's necessary.

I did travel a bit while I was there and people in small villages are still kind enough. But again, it has a lot to do with the money you are bringing in...

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah well, obviously you move there if you're rich, or want to get rich and live the rich lifestyle, and be able excersize that power without restriction.

if you want to be a normal you stay here where it's safe and platonic.

talking about living in one of the mega cities, not some village obviously.

[drunkrussian]

if exercising power without restriction is your thing is a communist country the best bet?

[PYT]

i always wanted to learn some kind of chinese

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

if exercising power without restriction is your thing is a communist country the best bet?

yes. you are far more free there than you are here.

you're "safe" here, but not free. too much public opinion and red tape.

in china, anything goes as long as you aren't stepping on anyone's toes, or you have more power than them.

there's a misconception that as soon as you step foot in china, you feel like a slave or something. it's completely opposite. I think most people would actually feel more liberated and free (the average person, not if you're a poor mother fucker, but that goes for anywhere in the world).


for low level freedoms, you do whatever you please, dress however you want, act however you want, no one will judge or care. anyone that stares, is curious about your actions, not because they want to be rude.
smoke pot on the streets, go do things that would be considered sinful or unmoral. women and drugs are endless. contrary to belief, only dealers get executed, users have less punishment than here in vancouver LOL!
if you're not into that sorta shit, there's many other personal freedoms that you can enjoy there, that you could never get here without being judged or have someone lecture you try to convert you to their "correct" ways or something.

you're also free from fundamental christian beliefs and values (which are deeply integrated into our culture)


the higher levels of freedoms come with money and more importantly, through connections and hookups. You see in china, it's not just about how skillfull you are, or how much money you have. there's a hierarchy, and you climb it by befriending people higher up than you.

one thing i notice, the more i hang out with mainlanders, the more i think the chinese culture is very triad like... then i came to a realisation...
the chinese culture isnt very triad like...
it's that triad culture is based off chinese culture. the other way around!

the people you know, can bend rules for you, you can do whatever the fuck you want if you know the right people. give them face, they'll give you face. scratch their backs they'll scratch your back. and it isnt a business deal, it's expected.

anyone that's very good at making friends and connections, would THRIVE there. forget about school, or skills. as long as you've got half a brain, some street smarts, and you're suave, you can make it big there. when i mean big, i mean multi millionaire. money is leaking if not pouring out of every nook cranny and crevasse there. the economy is booming, and there is so much money everywhere.
and best of all, opportunity is NOT equal. therefore YOU as a person with connections and a better background, have an EXPONENTIALLY higher chance of becoming a multi millionaire.

remember the wild wild west?
i call china the wild wild east. think of the wild wild west, where power, money, and women, was everything. now fast forward to 2012, replace all the cowboys with chinese people, and all the old school technology with today's technology.

that's what china is. just wild as fuck. you have to be a cowboy to survive there. strut down the street with your shiny boots, shiny gun hanging out and whatever badge you've obtained, pinned on your chest, shinning in everyone's eye. be respectful and give face to people above you. the line continues both ways, above and below you.

you see, when you have power there, you are the government. you join the gang. you get your cut of the cake, and you run it whatever way you want, as long as it's not cutting off a piece of cake that belongs to someone higher up than you.

I'm a typical male, power sex and money. I want to play in a playground, and china is that playground.

plus I'm kind of a sloth, that and my mind is too fixated on furthering my status and gaining power. I don't have time to do normal people things. they hinder me SO fucking much. chores, cleaning, dusting, cooking, groceries, errands. FUCK that shit. a king doesnt have time to do that shit. for some chump change, i can get people doing all those things for me 7 days a week. for a bit more i can hire another to do all my secretarial and administrative work, fuck she'd suck my dick if i paid her a bit more too. your dream can be BOUGHT.

human rights, activism, etc. etc. are all good too, but I'll leave that up to the western ideologists to develop, they do what they do best...

but I'm going to go play, where they play hardest.


trust me, I was totally anti chinese. very western closed minded. after a few years of letting my ego go, and exploring what could be beneficial to me, I've been convinced.
i realised, the world isnt just one dominant culture that spreads and eventually will consume and take over.
there's always two sides to the coin. the other side of the coin is the far east. they're not going to go anywhere. they have totally different system of beliefs and values. everything functions slightly differently there. if you have a hard time achieving your dream here, but it's 100x easier to achieve there, the logical thing to do would be to go there.
some people function better here, some over there.

plus i swear, of all the global cities i've been to, shanghai has the highest average concentration of the most beautiful women. and im a sucker for beautiful women. beautiful, filthy rich women.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

anyways, learn mandarin.
it can only benefit you.

you might get the money, but you'll definitely get the girls.

you can't lose.

[drunkrussian]

lol nice...well i started doing rosetta stone because i couldn't find any cantonese formal lessons locally that started right away. Unfortunately rosetta stone is only mandarin so...

[Hehe]

plus i swear, of all the global cities i've been to, shanghai has the highest average concentration of the most beautiful women. and im a sucker for beautiful women. beautiful, filthy rich women.

Not sure which part of PVG you were in, but the overall women quality in Shanghai is pretty low. You might have luck in places like Xintiandi where girls go there for rich people or foreigners.

In concentration, I'd have to go with Taipei.

Also, you mentioned hierarchy, so I'm guessing you have some idea about Chinese culture. Do you have anyone to *climb onto* before making your decision to move there?

If not, forget about making anything decent over there. I had the luck of meeting a friend back in college where his family is quite high up in the hierarchy. Through him, I met many people who have facilitated my career both in Canada and China greatly. But without them, I don't think I have the slightest chance of accomplishing what I have done.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol why all the fails?

either ignorance, or arrogance. there's no other explanation.

disagreeing on culture and lifestyle, is like failing someone because they like apples and you like oranges.
if you would just put that other fruit in your mouth and fucking chew it, you cannot deny the juices that flow are sweet.

Not sure which part of PVG you were in, but the overall women quality in Shanghai is pretty low. You might have luck in places like Xintiandi where girls go there for rich people or foreigners.

In concentration, I'd have to go with Taipei.

Also, you mentioned hierarchy, so I'm guessing you have some idea about Chinese culture. Do you have anyone to *climb onto* before making your decision to move there?

If not, forget about making anything decent over there. I had the luck of meeting a friend back in college where his family is quite high up in the hierarchy. Through him, I met many people who have facilitated my career both in Canada and China greatly. But without them, I don't think I have the slightest chance of accomplishing what I have done.

you proved my point right, it's about who you know. you know first hand HOW fucking important it is.

I don't want to sound like a cocky asshole, but I probably already do, so whatever. I must admit I see a higher concentration of beautiful women because everyone I hang with there are children of government officials, fu er dai (including myself), and ex-pat multi million/billionaire investors. so yeah i have my way in. I also have family that run major operations in shanghai, hong kong and taipei. i can pick any place i want. i choose shanghai, that's the place i sense most hunger. most eagerness climb any ladder thrown at them. and of course throw my youth away hah.

dude obviously I have a way in if im choosing to MOVE there.
you don't move to china unless you know people.
if you don't know anyone, then you have to be bringing in a large sum of money.
those are the only two things that matter, i have access to both. (unless you're female, then possessing great beauty will get you anything you need for the rest of your life).

but i still don't think shanghai has low quality women. you only need to count where hot women congregate and count from there.
the gorgeous women in shanghai are... amazingly gorgeous, usually from the north, or west china. quality over quantity. and in a city of 22million people, if you hang with the elite within an elite city, you're going to meet the most beautiful. I'm not saying taipei doesn't have any, they sure as hell do too, but the quality of the best compared to the best of both cities, shanghai tops it. half of the most beautiful women you meet in shanghai will be multi millionaires as well. the ones in taipei? models? "fashionists"? always the same.


but i will admit, it is a very horrible city, for health.
you'll die much earlier living there.
but in the process you will become rich, powerful, and consume insane amount of drugs and fuck more women than you can handle.
most importantly, you really feel the power of money. the grasp it has over others. you just gotta make sure you're always on the side that has it.
i'd probably move back here to retire. or if i ever get married and have kids.



I'm only replying with these detailed pieces of information because, people want to learn mandarin.
there's only THREE motives to learn mandarin:

#1 The love of the women
#2 The love of the culture
#3 The love of money

I've basically laid out what china is actually like (from an extroverted businessman's point of view).
anyone with a different experience or perspective WHILE they were there can share their perspective.

[Redlines_Daily]

People disagree with your post so they must be arrogant or ignorant? LOL! You do talk like a fu er dai, man. I failed you because I don't like your view of China..comes across as disrespectful to me and the way you express your views...you always post like your opinion is golden and everyone else must be wrong if they think differently. Also, it's annoying to read the word 'fuck' in virtually every paragraph.

btw, your extroverted businessman's point of view is generally only shared by other extroverted businessmen..and gives most westerners a bad name in China.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

People disagree with your post so they must be arrogant or ignorant? LOL! You do talk like a fu er dai, man. I failed you because I don't like your view of China..comes across as disrespectful to me and the way you express your views...you always post like your opinion is golden and everyone else must be wrong if they think differently. Also, it's annoying to read the word 'fuck' in virtually every paragraph.

btw, your extroverted businessman's point of view is generally only shared by other extroverted businessmen..and gives most westerners a bad name in China.

um yeah?
of course

ignorant because they actually don't know anything about china, and just bash the shit out of it because they're brainwashed by western media.

or arrogant because they don't want to admit.

can you explain anything else? why would someone hate china? (and in your case, hate my point of view of china, well guess what, that is ONE point of view, and it's a POSITIVE one, what's there to hate? the fact that there are more powerful people out there that have a higher income than you that live a different lifestyle that you disagree with? is that really a valid point?). plus my view of china is not wrong. it is exactly what i experienced and have put into practice. how can it be disrespectful, when it is the truth? what i described of china, HAPPENS in china, EVERYDAY, EVERYWHERE, and i experience it first hand every time im there. whats disrespectful about that?

or do you not like the fact that connections and money supersede skill and education?
did i not provide a solution to this? it's called the west. of course connections matter here too. but skill and education matter a lot more here than in china. i said two sides of a coin. we all live on this coin, it's up to you where you go to utilize your skills. i just happen to be luckily blessed with the ability to connect. that IS my skill.

as for me talking like a fu er dai. well it is my nature. I am one. i'd probably be the nicest most humble fu er dai you'd ever meet lol. but i always speak the truth, although sometimes exaggerated.

how am i disrespectful to you? why do you not like my view on china?
im not bashing it, im saying everything I like about it that interests me. In fact I think the west has a lot to learn from the east.

i could totally be a foodie and totally into their cultural history and geography, and go on and on and on about how great chinese food and all that stuff is.
but guess what, i have no interest in that area... so i post stuff that im interested in. stuff i love and experienced.

so how am i disrespectful?
you're of chinese background? so am i. you you cant use that one.

I never said anyone was wrong in my posts, i was just stating what i have felt and observed in china. i am definitely not wrong.

and the people that bash china are definitely not right. there is no place on this planet that is a shit hole to live in. well maybe some, but i can't really even begin to name one. perhaps the depths of the unexplored congo jungle.

anyone that bashes any culture or ways of people, is just ignorant or arrogant. that you have to agree on.

and for my other posts, yeah, sometimes i come off as a guy on my high and mighty horse, but then what? how many people come up with explanations to try to sway my thinking? i can't think of many people that even TRY. and the ones that do don't really do a good job of thoroughly explaining, not just to me, but the hundreds if not thousands of other people reading. not worth your time? well that's arrogance. because it would most definitely be worth your time if this were real life. except the fact that you're reaching out to 1000x more people here than you would ever in real life. you don't share your mind, no one will care, no one will believe, no one will follow. you'll just be fighting a battle by yourself, most probably with yourself.

as for giving most westerners a bad name in china. most people i hang with in china are mainland chinese. fob to the max. they are my favourite people to hang with. in fact i rarely hang with abc's and cbc's of shanghai. i only do when im invited to their parties and i have to show my face out of respect. but why would i hang with them? they're the same people in taipei, shanghai, LA, vancouver, hong kong. I didn't go to china to hang with the same people i'd hang with anywhere else.

and yeah i say fuck a lot, it's my favourite word. i fucking swear a lot and say a lot of shit. I talk like this in real life. i type, the exact same way i talk.

[drunkrussian]

lol this is getting good

[DiaoSi]

Yea i agree with ulic. China isnt for everyone. Since i wasnt born to a rich privileged family in china, the only way to make use of my life was to emigrate. I dont look back. Fuck china.

[Hehe]

you proved my point right, it's about who you know. you know first hand HOW fucking important it is.


To be honest, if you are after the money to be made through *connections*... make sure your friends or their family really do have the power required to be in that game.

Through my experience, I have seen wannabes (fu er dai or guan er dai) that are incredibly rich, but their connection have no real value. In a sense that, they have made their money through the connection, and other investments, but that's where the power of their connections end. They can't bring them any further.

And when you enter that world, they compete in a totally different perspective in ways unimaginable. I was lucky to know people very high up in Beijing, and they literally do what they wish with officials from other places (including Shanghai), so be very careful of that.

[NeoKaze92]

well if anything, let's get the thread back on track, if I may offer some advice. Coming from fluent Cantonese speaker and 12 plus years of speaking mandarin, the thing that I would recommend is to look up Chinese shows/movies that you would find interesting and watch it with subs, then watch it again without subs. And IMHO Mandarin is alot more easier to learn than Cantonese and more practical. If you want to learn conversational Cantonese, I seriously recommend finding a native speaking friend or else speaking formal Cantonese out on the streets of Hong Kong and Richmond will just get you weird looks.