[niu99]

Vancouver Condo Tower Sells Out In 4 Hours! - YouTube

Marine gateway towers sold out :fuckyea:
540 units sold within 4 hours

[BossFrancis]

I would go to T&T everyday n__n

[LiquidTurbo]

Holy shit.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[Gridlock]

That's impressive. Good sign that Vancouver is still going strong.

[GLOW]

260k for a new 1 br condo in vancouver seems pretty decently priced compared to other high rises i've seen in other locations

[TheKingdom2000]

That's a great location. But, I guess i'm biased because I grew up in South Vancouver. The Canada line is the biggest selling point for me.
The Convenience of living near a skytrain is amazing. Considering it only takes about 30mins to get downtown and driving would take about 15-20mins depending on the time of day.
And those prices are pretty reasonable. But, I'm sure maintenance fee's are going to be crappy as per usual.



I would go to T&T everyday n__n

T&T has gotten more expensive since loblaws bought them out =(

[FerrariEnzo]

seems like a good video...

but would all those amenities come to life? the cost of living in Vancouver is just going up, having it near the skytrain really helps..

[BossFrancis]

That's a great location. But, I guess i'm biased because I grew up in South Vancouver. The Canada line is the biggest selling point for me.
The Convenience of living near a skytrain is amazing. Considering it only takes about 30mins to get downtown and driving would take about 15-20mins depending on the time of day.
And those prices are pretty reasonable. But, I'm sure maintenance fee's are going to be crappy as per usual.





T&T has gotten more expensive since loblaws bought them out =(

You wouldn't need to worry about money cuz you could afford a 1 bedroom condo for 260k.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

[MG1]

It's a great idea, for sure. Stuff like this will help everybody out in the long run. I'd be worried about T&T being so close. I would stop cooking and go there morning, noon, and night, LOL.

Pool hall, pub, and arcade would be icing on the cake.


oh, and massage parlour.......hee hee

.........Canada Line!!

[FerrariEnzo]

oh, and massage parlour.......hee hee

:alone::alonehappy:

[Carl Johnson]

With a market this strong, prices have a lot more upside it seems. The chase is on!

[twitchyzero]

cause more than 50% of the units were pretty much sold out before the line-up..my friend had 2 campers lined up two days in advance but even that only got you the leftover units

[7seven]

That's great for this development, I think the key factor as most have mentioned was the proximity to the Canada line, I actually looked into this development but personally for me, that close to a transit line hub is a negative for me, I'd prefer to be away from the transit hub crowds and some of the issues that brings along with it.

Also at $269k for a 1 bd and $350k for 2 bd that is actually relatively cheap compared to other listings in Vancouver, so this development sold pretty quickly but if you look at the overall inventory figures (at a all time high) and rate of sales in the condo market in Vancouver/Burnaby, its been slowing, while detached homes keep rising. I would take that more as an indication of our overall condo market.

[LIKEABOSS]

Things will get really interesting when this game of music chairs stops. I can't wait. :D

[Chicken Balls]

Things will get really interesting when this game of music chairs stops. I can't wait. :D

You will be waiting a long time.

[MoBettah]

cause more than 50% of the units were pretty much sold out before the line-up..my friend had 2 campers lined up two days in advance but even that only got you the leftover units

That's how it works for every new building.

The units available to the public are the bottom of the barrel. There's usually anywhere from 3-4 rounds of insider/family/VIP buying.

[LiquidTurbo]

That's how it works for every new building.

The units available to the public are the bottom of the barrel. There's usually anywhere from 3-4 rounds of insider/family/VIP buying.

That's... lame.

[Tapioca]

$260K for a 465 square foot box? With no parking? Most of the people in the shots were Chinese and I would reckon that the majority are speculators and investors. (see a CTV story for shots of the line.)

Rennie has done a brilliant job marketing the project. The location isn't as great as it seems. The Canada Line is slow and is already at capacity during peak hours. (though if you're a globetrotter, I could see it being very handy with a 10 minute ride to the Airport.) I'd rather live on the old Expo/Millennium Line because it runs every 60 seconds during peak hours. Or perhaps on a well-serviced bus corridor such as Granville. If I wanted to buy in Vancouver, I'd rather buy in the False Creek flats. (lots of development coming online in the area and there will likely be more spot re-zonings in the future.) Or, the Rize development in Mount Pleasant.

After going through it myself, I don't think I would ever buy something pre-construction. You need to see the finished product, the views, how the building's been managed, and what types of neighbours you're going to have.

[MoBettah]

That's... lame.

It's business, not affirmative action equal opportunity.

Money over everything is all these developers care about.

There's no such thing as a "good deal" in the context of a new condo. The developers are making a hefty profit, not thinking about how to make it a happy price for you.

[Mr.HappySilp]

$260K for a 465 square foot box? With no parking? Most of the people in the shots were Chinese and I would reckon that the majority are speculators and investors. (see a CTV story for shots of the line.)

Rennie has done a brilliant job marketing the project. The location isn't as great as it seems. The Canada Line is slow and is already at capacity during peak hours. (though if you're a globetrotter, I could see it being very handy with a 10 minute ride to the Airport.) I'd rather live on the old Expo/Millennium Line because it runs every 60 seconds during peak hours. Or perhaps on a well-serviced bus corridor such as Granville. If I wanted to buy in Vancouver, I'd rather buy in the False Creek flats. (lots of development coming online in the area and there will likely be more spot re-zonings in the future.) Or, the Rize development in Mount Pleasant.

After going through it myself, I don't think I would ever buy something pre-construction. You need to see the finished product, the views, how the building's been managed, and what types of neighbours you're going to have.

True. I been looking at different apartments and the ones that's close to the skytrain is so NOISY when you have the windows open >< is not bad with just traffice going by but when a skytrain pulls into the station man is really loud... Image hearing those noises at least 80times a day when u are at home relaxing with windows open on a summer day... not the best idea.

However there is a great thing about buying per-construected apartments and that is if you are planning to rent it out you have no restruction since you are the first time owners. If you buy 2nd hand almost all apartments have rental restrictions so you might not able to rent it out vs first time buyer you can rent it out as you please.

The price seems OK I guess most apartments I seen (near bretnwood mall, Metro town, Royal Oak) is around 400k and up for about 800sq ft to 1000sq ft.

[LiquidTurbo]

465 sqft is pretty unliveable, imo. Crazy tiny.

[Death2Theft]

Canada Line is already at capacity? I thought they didn't have enough ridership to be making money? What is the interval between trains at rush hour?

[sh0n]

Props to the Developer and Reenie for selling out the condo project in 4 hours.

Some key facts:
- Over 11000 registered interested parties
- Over 400 suites sold in hours (many campers lined up few days in advance)
- Area is hot due to proximinity to Canada Line Station
- Anchor tenants (TnT supermarket, Cineplex, few under negotiation financial institutions, mixed retail and commercial tower

The advertised prices are for the 1 & 2 BR are cheap but I would like to bring you to attention that the 1BR are below 500 sq ft and 2BR are either Jr 2BR or 2BR Suites below 750 sq ft. They just find a way to build them smaller and smaller.

Oh yeah, you want parking? Most of the lower level 1BR Suite DOES NOT INCLUDE parking (if you wanted to buy one, the developer does not sell as its all allocated) - they want you to use the transit system which I agree but people still need a car here and there.

What I don't like.
- Lower level and west facing units - have fun hearing the skytrain leaving/exiting the station all day/night long
- Enjoy all your neighbours cause its still all industrial sites. Your home is gonna smell like compost and shit. Have fun with the fertilizer sale site half a block away. And did I mention the City of Vancouver garbage and recycling is 5 blocks away? Enjoy the smell of that in the summer and when the prevailing winds hit.
- Oh yeah did I mention about the noise? Enjoy the noise of Marine Dr and also the Airplanes that fly past the fraser river into the Airport.

I'm not sure if the project was a success or if there are 400 blinded souls who are in the craze in the tulip mania (WIKI this). Let's hope these guys complete and won't reneg coming 2015 when the building completes.

Buying 3 year's out is not a certainty in this economic environment. END

[AutozamAZ-3]

What is the interval between trains at rush hour?

4 minutes

[sh0n]

465 sqft is pretty unliveable, imo. Crazy tiny.

It's tiny however just like the 50's is the new 30's

465 sq ft is the new 550 sq ft!!!

Developers just find a way to build them smaller and smaller.

If you slice and dice it the 50-100 sq ft difference is most likely the flex (den, storage space). A few feet here and there. Generally, however most of these new plans are more efficiently lay and built out so it provides an open concept with no wasted space.

[Alby]

What I don't like.
- Lower level and west facing units - have fun hearing the skytrain leaving/exiting the station all day/night long
- Enjoy all your neighbours cause its still all industrial sites. Your home is gonna smell like compost and shit. Have fun with the fertilizer sale site half a block away. And did I mention the City of Vancouver garbage and recycling is 5 blocks away? Enjoy the smell of that in the summer and when the prevailing winds hit.
- Oh yeah did I mention about the noise? Enjoy the noise of Marine Dr and also the Airplanes that fly past the fraser river into the Airport.

I'm not sure if the project was a success or if there are 400 blinded souls who are in the craze in the tulip mania (WIKI this). Let's hope these guys complete and won't reneg coming 2015 when the building completes.

Buying 3 year's out is not a certainty in this economic environment. END

THAT. plus with the waste station so close by and TNT, good luck with the rodent problems.

[Tapioca]

True. I been looking at different apartments and the ones that's close to the skytrain is so NOISY when you have the windows open >< is not bad with just traffice going by but when a skytrain pulls into the station man is really loud... Image hearing those noises at least 80times a day when u are at home relaxing with windows open on a summer day... not the best idea.

My condo happens to be about a 5-minute walk from the nearest Skytrain station which is IMHO the ideal distance. You're not close enough to hear the trains (unless it's really really quiet during the evening) and you're close enough to walk to the station with ease.

But, as a condo owner who tries to live the "condo lifestyle", you really shouldn't be spending your summer days in your condo. You're supposed to be outdoors and taking advantage of the weather. Therefore, noise during the day is for the most part irrelevant.


However there is a great thing about buying per-construected apartments and that is if you are planning to rent it out you have no restruction since you are the first time owners. If you buy 2nd hand almost all apartments have rental restrictions so you might not able to rent it out vs first time buyer you can rent it out as you please.

I can only speak from the experience with my building, but our strata tried to pass a rental restriction by-law on two occasions and in both cases, it was soundly defeated. In fact, during the two AGMs when the rental by-law was on the agenda, we had over half of the owners (or their representatives) attend the meeting which is rare (in most cases, you're lucky to get 1/4 or 1/3 attendance at strata AGMs.) Considering the condo market in the Lower Mainland is heavily investor-controlled, stratas will have a hard time passing rental restrictions (which typically require a 3/4 majority) even if they wanted to.


The price seems OK I guess most apartments I seen (near bretnwood mall, Metro town, Royal Oak) is around 400k and up for about 800sq ft to 1000sq ft.

If you really, really want to buy a place, I suggest you consider New West. There's a direct Skytrain downtown (with a far superior service compared to the Canada Line), you're on the north side of the Fraser (which is a good thing - no crossing bridges and no tolls), there's political will to gentrify and clean-up the downtown core on the part of New West council and you've got cheap supermarkets and major chains nearby.


Canada Line is already at capacity? I thought they didn't have enough ridership to be making money? What is the interval between trains at rush hour?

I've taken the Canada Line on a few occasions during rush hour and it's more or less at capacity. I suppose the good thing about the Marine Gateway Project is that you can take either train and get home. If you live in Richmond, you have to wait 7.5 minutes during rush hour AND you have to squeeze in like sardines going home. The trains are considerably slower (and noisier, particularly in the Queen Elizabeth park section of the track) than the good ol' Bombardier ones and their HVAC system downright sucks (poor AC.)

[too_slow]

What I don't like.
- Lower level and west facing units - have fun hearing the skytrain leaving/exiting the station all day/night long
- Enjoy all your neighbours cause its still all industrial sites. Your home is gonna smell like compost and shit. Have fun with the fertilizer sale site half a block away. And did I mention the City of Vancouver garbage and recycling is 5 blocks away? Enjoy the smell of that in the summer and when the prevailing winds hit.
- Oh yeah did I mention about the noise? Enjoy the noise of Marine Dr and also the Airplanes that fly past the fraser river into the Airport.

I'm not sure if the project was a success or if there are 400 blinded souls who are in the craze in the tulip mania (WIKI this). Let's hope these guys complete and won't reneg coming 2015 when the building completes.

Buying 3 year's out is not a certainty in this economic environment. END

Good post. I had the some items listed in my cons/risks analysis. The noise pollution from airplanes is a big "minus" for me, and I totally missed the garbage collection facilities.. LOL :heckno:

[DJ Milk]

I dropped by the presentation center last week to ask about parking and found out it's not available for any 1 bed room units on the lower floors and no option to buy one as someone mentioned in an earlier post. You need to buy on the 19th floor and higher in the north tower and 21st floor and higher in the south tower to get a parking spot. I read that some of the people who waited in line didn't know about the no parking situation and wasn't too happy when they found out :rofl: . But they still ended up buying anyways :rukidding:

[Tapioca]

I dropped by the presentation center last week to ask about parking and found out it's not available for any 1 bed room units on the lower floors and no option to buy one as someone mentioned in an earlier post. You need to buy on the 19th floor and higher in the north tower and 21st floor and higher in the south tower to get a parking spot. I read that some of the people who waited in line didn't know about the no parking situation and wasn't too happy when they found out :rofl:

The bottom line is that you need a car in Vancouver despite the biking and public transportation options. The women demand it (unless you happen to not be a yuppie) and you need it to visit your family and friends and for spontaneous trips to Ikea.

[bing]

$260K for a 465 square foot box? With no parking? Most of the people in the shots were Chinese and I would reckon that the majority are speculators and investors. (see a CTV story for shots of the line.)

Rennie has done a brilliant job marketing the project. The location isn't as great as it seems. The Canada Line is slow and is already at capacity during peak hours. (though if you're a globetrotter, I could see it being very handy with a 10 minute ride to the Airport.) I'd rather live on the old Expo/Millennium Line because it runs every 60 seconds during peak hours. Or perhaps on a well-serviced bus corridor such as Granville. If I wanted to buy in Vancouver, I'd rather buy in the False Creek flats. (lots of development coming online in the area and there will likely be more spot re-zonings in the future.) Or, the Rize development in Mount Pleasant.

After going through it myself, I don't think I would ever buy something pre-construction. You need to see the finished product, the views, how the building's been managed, and what types of neighbours you're going to have.

Mind you, there are limited supplies of the 260k units. They only have enough so they can use it in their marketing materials. Those that are involved in the development of the project had access to buy some of the units before the general public, I would not be surprised if some of those were of the limited 260k units.

"TransLink has a variety of strategies to accommodate increased ridership in the short term, by increasing the frequency and number of trains in regular service. Future ridership capacity can also be added with more cars and longer station platforms (for which a provision has already been made at Marine Gateway)."
Marine Gateway (http://www.marinegateway.ca/index.php)

Hopefully this addresses capacity issues.

[twitchyzero]

Good post. I had the some items listed in my cons/risks analysis. The noise pollution from airplanes is a big "minus" for me, and I totally missed the garbage collection facilities.. LOL :heckno:

yeah can say all properities in richmond have the airplane noise problem :troll:

but seriously great call on the waste facility...most people would not have noticed that.

[bing]

I dropped by the presentation center last week to ask about parking and found out it's not available for any 1 bed room units on the lower floors and no option to buy one as someone mentioned in an earlier post. You need to buy on the 19th floor and higher in the north tower and 21st floor and higher in the south tower to get a parking spot. I read that some of the people who waited in line didn't know about the no parking situation and wasn't too happy when they found out :rofl: . But they still ended up buying anyways :rukidding:

Those people should have done their homework. At 262k starting, did they really think there would be parking? there's no free lunch.

[achiam]

My parents thought of buying one but said they were super cramped at the display units -- like HK style cramped!

[heleu]

I'm in construction and saw the suite layouts long before they were released to realtors. The suites are very small for that area; they are more like downtown condo sized.

Honestly, I'm surprised (pleasantly) that they sold out in a day. I'm sure the developer was too. There's a lot of adjacent land to that property, so I'm sure the next phase will be built very quickly...

[Bender Unit]

My parents thought of buying one but said they were super cramped at the display units -- like HK style cramped!
Yes, I went to their 1 BedRoom & 2 BedRoom display unit as well.
Unbelievable small, They were using scale down kitchen stove, sink, toilet...etc.
Layout were poor. Master BedRoom entrance was at the corner of balcony.
The only big was their balcony :heckno:

[adambomb]

With no parking for any of the units below the 18th floor. If you live in this South Van neighbourhood, prepare to see a HUGE increase in cars parking on minor streets. :whistle:

You can try all you want, there isn't enough 5 gallon buckets in the world to stop people from parking in front of those houses. :tantrum

[SumAznGuy]

Good post. I had the some items listed in my cons/risks analysis. The noise pollution from airplanes is a big "minus" for me, and I totally missed the garbage collection facilities.. LOL :heckno:

I've yet to see an airplane fly overhead of Cambie and Marine dr. Even the townhouses out past #4 road and Cambie isn't that bad when it comes to airplane noise. I don't think Cambie and Marine dr is along the low level flight path.

As for the garbage collection facilities, there are houses across the street. If there is any complaints, they'd be the first to complain. I worked at the Superstore warehouse for 5 years and never really noticed the smell in the summer except for the one summer where we could smell the water treatment plant near the airport.

[sh0n]

Good post. I had the some items listed in my cons/risks analysis. The noise pollution from airplanes is a big "minus" for me, and I totally missed the garbage collection facilities.. LOL :heckno:

Gotta do your own work as a potential homeowner and investor.

Alot of people are too blinded by the beauty and glamor of the marketing materials and display suite. Doesn't help you have a whole herd who is horny for condos :)

[sh0n]

Oh yeah here's an insider tip.

For the 200 lost souls who brought in the North Tower (Facing North & West) thinking you got a great view of Langara, Marpole Area & North Mountain. I'm sorry but your view will be obstructed.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the developer PCI and marketer Reenie failed to tell you that there will be another tower that is currently in "proposal" and will most likely to be passed that will permanently obstruct your view.

[sh0n]

I've yet to see an airplane fly overhead of Cambie and Marine dr. Even the townhouses out past #4 road and Cambie isn't that bad when it comes to airplane noise. I don't think Cambie and Marine dr is along the low level flight path.

As for the garbage collection facilities, there are houses across the street. If there is any complaints, they'd be the first to complain. I worked at the Superstore warehouse for 5 years and never really noticed the smell in the summer except for the one summer where we could smell the water treatment plant near the airport.

Some of the plane's summer flight path is through on top of Fraser River pass Oak St & Arthur Lang Bridge.

If you're high up in the South Tower you'll get a great view of the planes and the noise that comes with it :)

[geelaw]

my gf's mom actually got one in the south tower for her, im excited for her as i will probably be living there as well, just gotta pay the mom a bit of rent. got the two bed room, we thought we lined up early.. got there around 8pm the night before? holy there were tons of ppl alrdy. it was hard sitting in lawn chairs out in the cold for so many hours but it was worth it. by the time we got in most units were sold alrdy so we didnt get what we wanted and the rest of the one bedrooms were no parking which is really inconvient for me since i need my car for work. so we have decided to go for the two bedroom unit with the parking. TnT will make us fat. HAHA kidding.. maybe.

as for the sounds of the trains, apparently you wont hear it. even if you do on the lower levels its very minimal because the units start on 7th floor i believe.

and for the sounds of the plane that we might hear shouldnt be a problem, my bro has a condo in richmond and planes fly by there, bugged me at first when i went there. but my bro and his gf doesnt even notice it anymore. so its okay.

there were only 415 units not 500.

[c3m]

If I'm not wrong Floor 5 and 6 are reserved for social housing.
Also, the North tower facing the mountains would get zero view in a few years because there are going to be highrise right across from you soon.

[AWDTurboLuvr]

The lack of research from buyers is amazing. The only things people look at are the feature list and the presentation centre when they buy it. They don't look into who the developers are, their history, the warranty company and they most certainly don't go to city hall to see what proposed developments are happening around the neighbourhood. I swear to god, some people do more research when they buy their TV's than their homes.

The price/sq-ft is no cheaper than anywhere else in Metro Vancouver. In fact, without parking, they stripped out a lot of the value.

[hsh4]

good post on the pros cons. my parents usually have some kinda vip thing whenever new condos are out and they can go in before the line ups n everything. they caught on to pretty much everything you said about this particular one. one more thing they took note of was that if you look at the floor plan closely, majority of the 2 bedrooms have walls are slanted which wastes a lot of space given that its so small already. def not worth investing. terrible floor plan

[too_slow]

^My grandparents do property investments in HK. One of the best advice they have given me was "imagine the unit without all the fancy decor, paint, fancy electronics/appliances for a sec.. does the floor plan makes sense? is the area desirable/convenient?" Like you said, I've met a lot of buyers that never review the strata minutes/developer's history. They go buy units based on how pretty it looks with the granite counter-tops and hardwood floor. I guess people don't realize the counter-tops/SS appliances and fake h/w flooring is only worth $12,000 (the unit stickers for over $390,000)

[sh0n]

my gf's mom actually got one in the south tower for her, im excited for her as i will probably be living there as well, just gotta pay the mom a bit of rent. got the two bed room, we thought we lined up early.. got there around 8pm the night before? holy there were tons of ppl alrdy. it was hard sitting in lawn chairs out in the cold for so many hours but it was worth it. by the time we got in most units were sold alrdy so we didnt get what we wanted and the rest of the one bedrooms were no parking which is really inconvient for me since i need my car for work. so we have decided to go for the two bedroom unit with the parking. TnT will make us fat. HAHA kidding.. maybe.

as for the sounds of the trains, apparently you wont hear it. even if you do on the lower levels its very minimal because the units start on 7th floor i believe.

and for the sounds of the plane that we might hear shouldnt be a problem, my bro has a condo in richmond and planes fly by there, bugged me at first when i went there. but my bro and his gf doesnt even notice it anymore. so its okay.

there were only 415 units not 500.

I'm curious you mentioned you will be living there. Did you buy a suite as well or do you plan to move in with your gf and gf's mom?

[Soundy]

The lack of research from buyers is amazing.
Why do you assume that people snapping these things up are doing so with no research? Maybe these are simply people with different priorities than you when it comes to what they want in a property.

The price/sq-ft is no cheaper than anywhere else in Metro Vancouver. In fact, without parking, they stripped out a lot of the value.
And why do you assume EVERYONE gives a fuck about the parking? That might be a rhetorical question considering this is a CAR forum, but believe it or not, there are people out there who get by just fine without a car. If a place costs less BECAUSE it doesn't have associated parking, maybe that's a "pro" for them, rather than a "con". Why would you want to pay more for an amenity you'll never use?

Bill Good had Bob Rennie on talking about this development the other day, he noted that his producer, Jessica, was quite interested in the concept of the development, because she lives (or had, one point) exactly that type of lifestyle - working downtown, not having a car, etc. There ARE actually people that find this appealing, and that doesn't mean they "haven't done their research".

[sh0n]

^My grandparents do property investments in HK. One of the best advice they have given me was "imagine the unit without all the fancy decor, paint, fancy electronics/appliances for a sec.. does the floor plan makes sense? is the area desirable/convenient?" Like you said, I've met a lot of buyers that never review the strata minutes/developer's history. They go buy units based on how pretty it looks with the granite counter-tops and hardwood floor. I guess people don't realize the counter-tops/SS appliances and fake h/w flooring is only worth $12,000 (the unit stickers for over $390,000)

Exactly, you gotta go into the display suite and strip out all the furnishings, design elements (kitchen, flooring, countertops, bathrooms) etc and see if the layout is a good fit for your needs.

[geelaw]

I'm curious you mentioned you will be living there. Did you buy a suite as well or do you plan to move in with your gf and gf's mom?

the suite is for her, not for her and her mom.

[geelaw]

and yes id prob move in

[sh0n]

Why do you assume that people snapping these things up are doing so with no research? Maybe these are simply people with different priorities than you when it comes to what they want in a property.


And why do you assume EVERYONE gives a fuck about the parking? That might be a rhetorical question considering this is a CAR forum, but believe it or not, there are people out there who get by just fine without a car. If a place costs less BECAUSE it doesn't have associated parking, maybe that's a "pro" for them, rather than a "con". Why would you want to pay more for an amenity you'll never use?

Bill Good had Bob Rennie on talking about this development the other day, he noted that his producer, Jessica, was quite interested in the concept of the development, because she lives (or had, one point) exactly that type of lifestyle - working downtown, not having a car, etc. There ARE actually people that find this appealing, and that doesn't mean they "haven't done their research".

From my point of view it just feels like the consensus herd who lined up overnight and buyout the building has not done their due diligence.

Most normal people will only see the conveniences of Canada Line, TNT, Cineplex, Retail, etc but there's alot of trade offs as mentioned earlier.

Having or not having a parking spot is like comparing apples to oranges. Some people can live with one, some can't.

But the main point that was eluded you do at times need a car to go some place to run a special errand. Imagine if you had a Misses and you needed to go to Ikea for a furniture run (as mentioned by Tapioca) do you want to rely on the Canada Line or public transit to take you to Ikea?

To each it's own though people can be bulls or they can be bears

[sh0n]

Yes, I went to their 1 BedRoom & 2 BedRoom display unit as well.
Unbelievable small, They were using scale down kitchen stove, sink, toilet...etc.
Layout were poor. Master BedRoom entrance was at the corner of balcony.
The only big was their balcony :heckno:

Actually their scale down stove, sink, toilet, fridge, dw, range is the new standard for these size of apartments.

It's been the same for projects in Downtown the last year or so.

[Lomac]

Maybe it's just me but I would never buy a house/condo/townhome without seeing the finished product first. Many developers use one company to build the show home ("Look how nicely built this is!") but then use a completely different one for the actual building ("$50 to everyone of you if we can't get this 20 story tower up in two weeks!").

Plus moving into an already established neighbourhood gives you an exact idea as to what your view will be, who your neighbours are, and what sort of things you need to deal with on a daily basis.

[Tapioca]

And why do you assume EVERYONE gives a fuck about the parking? That might be a rhetorical question considering this is a CAR forum, but believe it or not, there are people out there who get by just fine without a car. If a place costs less BECAUSE it doesn't have associated parking, maybe that's a "pro" for them, rather than a "con". Why would you want to pay more for an amenity you'll never use?


I would argue that not having parking hurts the unit's re-sale value or its rentability.

It's not as if this building is downtown where space is at a premium. A parking spot in this area of town should only cost the buyer a maximum $10K. That's essentially one year's worth of payments - I would gladly add that to my purchase price if I were in the market for one of these suites.

Anyway, I'm looking at the floor plans more closely and I have major concerns about the suites per floor and elevators. On the lower floors, there are 16 suites per floor and only 5 elevators. On the higher floors, there are 8 suites and only 2 elevators! And there are 36 floors in total! For the record, my building has 30 floors with suites and the lower floors have 6 suites per floor, while the upper floors have only 4. We have two elevators per tower and I would say on average, an elevator is down at least a couple of days per month. Fortunately, I live on a lower floor which makes taking the stairs an easy option if one of our elevators is down. Good luck to those who live on the 25th floor, LOL.

[gars]

Maybe it's just me but I would never buy a house/condo/townhome without seeing the finished product first. Many developers use one company to build the show home ("Look how nicely built this is!") but then use a completely different one for the actual building ("$50 to everyone of you if we can't get this 20 story tower up in two weeks!").

Plus moving into an already established neighbourhood gives you an exact idea as to what your view will be, who your neighbours are, and what sort of things you need to deal with on a daily basis.

Yep, there are many pros to buying a used condo. A lot of condos will keep very low strata fees to attract buyers, but when their warranties are over - they will need to jack up strata fees to make up for it because their contingency fund is too low.

Also - some strata's are so mismanaged, they've pissed away their funding. That and you'll end up with Stratas who passed stupid rules. My friend's place is full of old people, so there are stupid rules that basically don't allow you to play music at any time of the day. The wording just allows them to interpret it any way they want.

[Chronix]

the most convenient apartments are the ones by richards and davie imo. close to everything and yaletown stn and airport.

[Alpine]

Checked this place out with my girlfriend because of the location (close to her work, canada line, proposed T&T, etc.). The 2 Bed display suite was 480k+ (79x square feet, comes with 1 parking spot) and I thought there was a serious lack of usable living space. There's no way you can fit a properly sized dining table (4-6+ people) + sofa (3 or more seats) in the living + dining room and have ample space to move around comfortably. If I had purchased there, i would've had to turn one of the bedrooms into a dining room to have enough space for what I want in a "living room" (ie. sofa/sectional, chairs, coffee table, tv, bar counter + stools). I hate all these small 2 bedroom suites... useless for what I am looking for and my lifestyle.
If you have a lifestyle that matches these types of apartments I would say that there are much better areas than this.

[Tapioca]

Checked this place out with my girlfriend because of the location (close to her work, canada line, proposed T&T, etc.). The 2 Bed display suite was 480k+ (79x square feet, comes with 1 parking spot) and I thought there was a serious lack of usable living space. There's no way you can fit a properly sized dining table (4-6+ people) + sofa (3 or more seats) in the living + dining room and have ample space to move around comfortably. If I had purchased there, i would've had to turn one of the bedrooms into a dining room to have enough space for what I want in a "living room" (ie. sofa/sectional, chairs, coffee table, tv, bar counter + stools). I hate all these small 2 bedroom suites... useless for what I am looking for and my lifestyle.
If you have a lifestyle that matches these types of apartments I would say that there are much better areas than this.

2 bedroom suites in my building for about $400-420K. My building is 5 years old, each 2 bedroom suite is roughly 860-870 square feet with very good floor plans (they're basically rectangles with plenty of usable space.) There are plenty of suites in the Burnaby-Brentwood area which are going ten of thousands less with better floorplans, parking, and access to Skytrain. Property taxes are higher in Burnaby compared to Vancouver, but arguably, Burnaby is the best-managed municipality in the Lower Mainland.

Let's face it - people are buying into hype.

And another thing to all of the potential condo owners out there: buy into a building with as few amenities as possible. They will only cause your strata more headaches in the long-run as the facilities age.

[TouringTeg]

For reference, I was looking at a small downtown victoria (834 Johnson) unit pre construction, 1 bed, 500sq ft, $225k abt 2 yrs ago. A parking spot was $35k.
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[twitchyzero]

But the main point that was eluded you do at times need a car to go some place to run a special errand. Imagine if you had a Misses and you needed to go to Ikea for a furniture run (as mentioned by Tapioca) do you want to rely on the Canada Line or public transit to take you to Ikea?



I guess that depends on how often you have Ikea runs
they could easily use some of the money from not spending on car payment/insurance/gas to do delivery once in a while?

[AWDTurboLuvr]

Why do you assume that people snapping these things up are doing so with no research? Maybe these are simply people with different priorities than you when it comes to what they want in a property.


And why do you assume EVERYONE gives a fuck about the parking? That might be a rhetorical question considering this is a CAR forum, but believe it or not, there are people out there who get by just fine without a car. If a place costs less BECAUSE it doesn't have associated parking, maybe that's a "pro" for them, rather than a "con". Why would you want to pay more for an amenity you'll never use?


I'm not assuming. You would be surprised at the questions that come up at strata meetings and AGMs. The things I pointed out, are common things to look for whether or not you are an investor or just buying a primary residence. I've been to so many pre-sales in the last decade that I can safely say, most of the buyers, do not ask many questions aside from, can I get the "dark" interior finishing option. Do they ask, who is heading up the building maintenance contract? Who did the HVAC? These are questions that should come up when you buy a house, yet a strata unit gets a free pass.

Uh, I give a fuck about parking when I'm being charged the same amount as elsewhere, but without the spot. Even if I don't USE the parking spot, you can rent it out. Without a parking spot, you limit yourself to potential buyers down the road.

I'm sorry if people are stunned by nice finishings but aren't aware of what the bones of the structure are, but you would be surprised what shit gets by city inspectors on full-building walkthroughs. There are many things behind the scenes that don't even make code, yet pass inspection.

[no_clue]

oh god there is social housing? expect to see tons of vandalism in the lobby/elevator/common areas.

I can't wait for the day interest rates go up and irresponsible people go under and blame Vancouver/politician/economy when it's actually their fault.

[Soundy]

From my point of view it just feels like the consensus herd who lined up overnight and buyout the building has not done their due diligence.
And you know this because you've talked to most of them, right? Many of them? A few of them? ANY of them??

But the main point that was eluded you do at times need a car to go some place to run a special errand. Imagine if you had a Misses and you needed to go to Ikea for a furniture run (as mentioned by Tapioca) do you want to rely on the Canada Line or public transit to take you to Ikea?

How about car2go and similar services? I know plenty of people living in Yaletown who got rid of their personal cars years ago and just use these services when they need wheels. In fact, this concept of not needing a car or parking space is hardly new. I know it's a difficult concept for a car forum to grasp...

[Soundy]

I would argue that not having parking hurts the unit's re-sale value or its rentability.
Only to someone who can't live without a car. Again, some people have a lot of priorities that come before their cars. And again, I realize this is a difficult concept on a car forum, where most guys would probably choose a car over a girlfriend...

[SiRV]

2 bedroom suites in my building for about $400-420K. My building is 5 years old, each 2 bedroom suite is roughly 860-870 square feet with very good floor plans (they're basically rectangles with plenty of usable space.) There are plenty of suites in the Burnaby-Brentwood area which are going ten of thousands less with better floorplans, parking, and access to Skytrain. Property taxes are higher in Burnaby compared to Vancouver, but arguably, Burnaby is the best-managed municipality in the Lower Mainland.

Let's face it - people are buying into hype.

And another thing to all of the potential condo owners out there: buy into a building with as few amenities as possible. They will only cause your strata more headaches in the long-run as the facilities age.

I'm kind of in the market for a condo/town-home, just wondering if you'd be able to share info on where you're building is exactly? Or any building similar to it in terms of price/floor plans etc.

I was seriously considering the MG location, and had a realtor all set-up to do a pre-sale buy last week.. The units I wanted (B-design) on the south tower were gone 2 weeks before the line up even began. =(

I think a bunch of people did get jipped though, especially if they didn't study the entire floor plan. Some of the kitchen plans are not practical at all.. (not all the kitchens looked like the ones on display.. those were the good ones). :rukidding:

[truth]

After I saw the floorplans, I chuckled and that disregarded the entire project. Not having nice rectangular units bugs me a lot (I did look into why the building is shaped the way it is so I expected as much before the floorplans were released). Waiting to see how the housing situation turns out to decide whether it's better to rent or buy.

[Ch28]

Yes, I went to their 1 BedRoom & 2 BedRoom display unit as well.
Unbelievable small, They were using scale down kitchen stove, sink, toilet...etc.
Layout were poor. Master BedRoom entrance was at the corner of balcony.
The only big was their balcony :heckno:

The scaled down appliances are called 'european style' or 'condo sized'

It was something I wasn't aware of until my gf told me. A lot of the smaller 1BR condos nowadays will use that because it saves space. Make sure you ask if they're full sized appliances because a condo sized range isn't even big enough to fit a turkey into the oven :lol

[miss_crayon]

Just an fyi for peeps asking regarding appliances: Industry standard on appliances: 24" for 1 bedroom, 32" for 2 bed +
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[Gridlock]

Just an fyi for peeps asking regarding appliances: Industry standard on appliances: 24" for 1 bedroom, 32" for 2 bed +
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And nothing says "I don't have a real home" like cooking on a 24" stove. That's what we use in all the 1 bedrooms and most of the 2's in our rental building. Our apartment has the full 30"(not 32) and its a night and day difference.

The apartment sized fridges and stoves are crap. They are built like crap and work like crap. Same with the smaller fridges. I'm sure there are a higher end unit out there that we obviously aren't in the market for, but I haven't seen them personally.

Myself, whenever I look at developments such as these I think if I wanted to buy something, don't I want to live in something more than what is available in a typical rental one bedroom?

[sh0n]

oh god there is social housing? expect to see tons of vandalism in the lobby/elevator/common areas.

I can't wait for the day interest rates go up and irresponsible people go under and blame Vancouver/politician/economy when it's actually their fault.

I don't think there will be social housing in this project as the floors 1-6 will be retail and commercial

[sh0n]

And nothing says "I don't have a real home" like cooking on a 24" stove. That's what we use in all the 1 bedrooms and most of the 2's in our rental building. Our apartment has the full 30"(not 32) and its a night and day difference.

The apartment sized fridges and stoves are crap. They are built like crap and work like crap. Same with the smaller fridges. I'm sure there are a higher end unit out there that we obviously aren't in the market for, but I haven't seen them personally.

Myself, whenever I look at developments such as these I think if I wanted to buy something, don't I want to live in something more than what is available in a typical rental one bedroom?

Yeah as per the project i believe both 1 & 2 BR uses the same 24" appliances.

They definitely aren't your run of the mill cheapest GE kind. They are the better "blomberg" ones with a few bell and whistle features

[jackmeister]

I'm surprised people are so eager to buy pre-sale condos to live in (lots of younger people actually want to live in it). The fine print allows the developer to modify your suite as they construct the building, or reduce your square footage etc.

People test drive cars and do thorough research online, but only go take a look at the floor plan for a purchase that is, at a minimum, 5 times the value and a 2-3 year wait :fuckthatshit:

[jackmeister]

I don't think there will be social housing in this project as the floors 1-6 will be retail and commercial

they're keeping some units for market rental

[Tapioca]

I don't think having a few units of social (or non-market rental) housing is as bad as one may think. People tend to adapt to their surroundings and if you're a small fish in a big lake of well-to-do yuppies, you're likely to keep a low profile and try to blend in.

In fact, having some people on social assistance living in a building with well off people will only motivate them to improve their lives.
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[Gridlock]

I don't think having a few units of social (or non-market rental) housing is as bad as one may think. People tend to adapt to their surroundings and if you're a small fish in a big lake of well-to-do yuppies, you're likely to keep a low profile and try to blend in.

In fact, having some people on social assistance living in a building with well off people will only motivate them to improve their lives.
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Well isn't that the happy little goal. In actuality, a lot of these people are fine examples of already growing in their surroundings. We only have a few ministry cases in our buildings(which are all straight rental) and I'll tell you, all but one looks and lives the part. One guy actually thinks he's a good tenant(his words) and he told me this while we had a dog inspector checking his place for bed bugs and right before she came out of the apartment saying she could not do so because of the amount of food on the floor.

Market rental of lower suites that don't sell well is one thing, but a couple of these developments that are mixed social/market are ones that based on my experience would not be something I'd wish to purchase in order to live there.

Call me crazy, but don't people usually buy to get away from crazy fucking neighbors that don't give a shit?

[G]

I don't think having a few units of social (or non-market rental) housing is as bad as one may think. People tend to adapt to their surroundings and if you're a small fish in a big lake of well-to-do yuppies, you're likely to keep a low profile and try to blend in.

In fact, having some people on social assistance living in a building with well off people will only motivate them to improve their lives.
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Agreed... It's not like social housing is for 100% criminals who are going to turn shit upside down.

I think this would have been a good investment for people. Kind of regret turning it down when I had pre-sale couple weeks prior... :okay:

[Tapioca]

^ I'd rather see a few units of social housing sprinkled in various buildings rather than have blocks of social housing. When you have blocks, you end up with ghettos. (Think the projects in the US)

When you live in a high-rise, there will always be problem residents. In our building, we've had our usual share of drug dealers and even a guy who was running a brothel. At least with social housing, there's a guaranteed stream of revenue for the strata.
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[Gridlock]

Make no mistake. No one is putting in a social housing component because it makes them feel good to help people. It's done in exchange for extra density and taller buildings and things that make money for the developer, that then turns around in the pre-sale phase and tries to turn it into a selling feature just like a 24" stove that people say, "its not small, its european styled!"

[sh0n]

I want to correct everyone in the thread that there will be NO SOCIAL housing in this project.

Instead it's what is known as Short Term Incentive Rentals program (STIR and as per by the City of Vancouver).

What is this?
The developer will build and allocate a % of the suites as rentals only (unstratified and not for sale). Developers build this in exchange for higher density, reduced development levies and reduced CAC's.

Pretty much at the marine gateway the developer will build and allocate 10% (approx 46 suites) to this STIR program.

These are not social housing (i.e it's not owned/rented out by the BC government or ministry of whatever) but owned by the developer and can only be rented out at a market prevailing rate. There are also some legalities involved such that the units can never be sold and is registered as a rental for the lifetime of the building.

What are some of the pros:
- More new rental stock is added to the rental market, thus allowing for people who cannot afford to own to buy but rent instead.
- People can get a brand new suite.

What are some of the cons:
- Developer can charge whatever market rate they like (IMO it won't be cheap probably 10-15% cheaper that what you find in Downtown)
- Pending on how well the rentals are managed by the developer (and it's agents) it can be a complete shit show pending if they are a slumlord or a great landlord.

[miss_crayon]

Yeah as per the project i believe both 1 & 2 BR uses the same 24" appliances.

They definitely aren't your run of the mill cheapest GE kind. They are the better "blomberg" ones with a few bell and whistle features

And as per Gridlock's reply, I personally would like my appliances to be bigger as well but the fact is there's only so much space available in an apartment and the industry has set the standard to be 24" and 32". However, I will say that more and more developers nowadays are putting higher end appliances to compete with each other.

Concord is now putting Miele (the LV of appliances) appliances in most of their projects as a standard finish. Cosmo was one of the first projects that had the option to upgrade to these finishings vs their higher end projects like the Erickson (etc) that came standard. (It should (and is) have anyways considering a starting price for a suite there is in the $2M!) It still doesn't change the fact they are smaller than a home but..it is what it is. At least there's improvement to the old days..LG that breaks down within the first year.

[Lomac]

And nothing says "I don't have a real home" like cooking on a 24" stove. That's what we use in all the 1 bedrooms and most of the 2's in our rental building. Our apartment has the full 30"(not 32) and its a night and day difference.

The apartment sized fridges and stoves are crap. They are built like crap and work like crap. Same with the smaller fridges. I'm sure there are a higher end unit out there that we obviously aren't in the market for, but I haven't seen them personally.

Myself, whenever I look at developments such as these I think if I wanted to buy something, don't I want to live in something more than what is available in a typical rental one bedroom?

I have friends who live in similar layouts to some of the apartments you two manage and they all have those uber small appliances. High end brand or not, they're absolutely shitty to cook on. While I know a lot of people wont do this, it's still nearly impossible to use multiple elements going at the same time because you can't fit pots or pans on the top without them banging into each other. The oven portion is tiny - as someone mentioned, you can't even get a turkey, much less a larger ham into many of them. And the fridges they supply? If you're stocking up for a family -- hell, even if you're stocking up for just yourself and perhaps a child -- there's no way you can fit everything in.

I understand the reasoning behind them, I just don't think they're suitable at all for someone who actually cooks at home for more than just their own self.

[Tapioca]

Full-size appliances or nothing. You might as well have a mini-fridge and hot pot if you're going to have a 24" range.

It's nice to have that Miele on the door, but Whirlpool makes acceptable appliances. I've had mine for 5 years and the only issue I've had is a worn out burner switch.
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[Alpine]

In our building, we've had our usual share of drug dealers and even a guy who was running a brothel. At least with social housing, there's a guaranteed stream of revenue for the strata.
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Sounds like my gf's apartment around brentwood :) I could've sworn someone was running a brothel in her apartment too. There were always single male visitors going up to the 25th floor. I should've went up there too.. maybe I was missing out :)

On a side note, I am a big fan of the brentwood area and could easily see myself buying a place there.

[Soundy]

And nothing says "I don't have a real car" like rolling on 14" rims.
:fulloffuck:

[Gridlock]

:fulloffuck:

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/7/11/12/enhanced-buzz-5820-1310400797-9.jpg

[sh0n]

Well isn't that the happy little goal. In actuality, a lot of these people are fine examples of already growing in their surroundings. We only have a few ministry cases in our buildings(which are all straight rental) and I'll tell you, all but one looks and lives the part. One guy actually thinks he's a good tenant(his words) and he told me this while we had a dog inspector checking his place for bed bugs and right before she came out of the apartment saying she could not do so because of the amount of food on the floor.

Market rental of lower suites that don't sell well is one thing, but a couple of these developments that are mixed social/market are ones that based on my experience would not be something I'd wish to purchase in order to live there.

Call me crazy, but don't people usually buy to get away from crazy fucking neighbors that don't give a shit?

Totally agree on this one.

I wouldn't be too happy if I had to buy a home in a condo tower where there's social housing in it.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for social housing at the expense of government programs (City of Vancouver, BC Government, etc) just not on the dime of the private sector.

Just keep social housing separated. For a project that has market condos (one for sale) and rentals (ones that are rented out by market rate) its fine by me

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ U mean like the Olympic Village?

[lgman]

For those who use the skytrain and bus as their main form of transportation there are other forms of Non-Alternative transportation such as Rental Cars/Trucks, Zipcars Etc.

Perfect for your "Ikea Runs" or the "I need to buy a whole cars worth of stuff in one day" Days.

So yeah just walk in their shoes for a min if you can.

Oh yeah show me a chart how the marine condo building is the same price per/SqFt as another condos in South Van? Provide building costs and quality of materials list too just to be accurate. If not quit pulling figures outta ur butt to make yourself look like a housing market Guru.

[Duff Beer]

I just don't feel good about the Real Estate Market at the moment. Foreign investments coming in and driving the prices up (yes, both sale prices and rentals) resulting in record-high debt for locals.

What went up must go down. Eventually.

My $0.02 :whistle:

[Gridlock]

I just don't feel good about the Real Estate Market at the moment. Foreign investments coming in and driving the prices up (yes, both sale prices and rentals) resulting in record-high debt for locals.

What went up must go down. Eventually.

My $0.02 :whistle:

Beyond that, cheap money drives most of the boom in a real estate market. When cheap money goes away, so too does the boom.

That's what drove the US collapse. Cheap money combined with giving it to anyone that asked for it.

Our money is cheap, but not US cheap, and our banks maintained standards in lending. Therefore, we wouldn't be as prone to their level of correction.

[LiquidTurbo]

I just don't feel good about the Real Estate Market at the moment. Foreign investments coming in and driving the prices up (yes, both sale prices and rentals) resulting in record-high debt for locals.

What went up must go down. Eventually.

My $0.02 :whistle:

Haven't ppl been saying this for like a decade?
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[SumAznGuy]

Haven't ppl been saying this for like a decade?

At least since 2004. Bought our first condo in 2003 just before the markets took off.

[SiRV]

Beyond that, cheap money drives most of the boom in a real estate market. When cheap money goes away, so too does the boom.

That's what drove the US collapse. Cheap money combined with giving it to anyone that asked for it.

Our money is cheap, but not US cheap, and our banks maintained standards in lending. Therefore, we wouldn't be as prone to their level of correction.

Not yet, but with interest rates as low as they are (3.99% over 10 years).... we may run into a problem in 5-10 years when these 2.99 and 3.99% rates change to 6,7,8% rates and salaries still have not gone up.

[wouwou]

Haven't ppl been saying this for like a decade?
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Mortgage rate @ 3-4% is extremely low.

[wouwou]

Not yet, but with interest rates as low as they are (3.99% over 10 years).... we may run into a problem in 5-10 years when these 2.99 and 3.99% rates change to 6,7,8% rates and salaries still have not gone up.
a 0.5% increase in mortgage rate will knock the real estate price down 5%

I think I read it somewhere last year

[4444]

Not yet, but with interest rates as low as they are (3.99% over 10 years).... we may run into a problem in 5-10 years when these 2.99 and 3.99% rates change to 6,7,8% rates and salaries still have not gone up.

that's not entirely true.

in the states you can get 30 year fixed mortgages, right now I get them in the 6.x% region (that's today for a non resident for investment purposes - so there is likely a small premium on this compared to if i were a local wanting to live in teh property) - so you wouldn't care less about if rates go up or down, other than their effect on house prices.

Now, that is where things got interesting - I heavily invest in US real estate, and people are walking away from properties because its just not economical to stay in them, when paying $2000 a month on a mortgage for a property with negative equity, when you can rent the equivalent for $1200 or $1100, why wouldn't you - and your credit rating, which will get hurt, will be back to normal in 4 or so years - recourse loans or not, this is happening

now, another aspect of this was job losses - significant unemployment drove this quickly and to large effect, b/c ppl just didn't have incomes to pay for their mortgages... but then again, BC & Canada's unemployment rates are ticking up, Vancouver has no real economy (PLEASE SOMEBODY, TELL ME WHAT ECONOMIC DRIVERS WE HAVE HERE!??!?!?!? tourism? not really, mining? yes we have head offices, but thats not significant, technology? a couple good start ups... lululemon?)

we are FUCKED, when the government and its agencies start tightening up on things such as automatic mortgage renewals, 30 year mortgages turning into 25 max, 100% ltv mortgages (thanks to cash back mortgages) AND THEN add on top of that increasing mortgage rates over the coming years... people will stop buying (and no, please don't say 'vancouver is different' or 'the chinese are buying' - vancouver is no different at all, housing prices are based, fundamentally, on freedom & ease of cash and economic fundamentals, and will, over the long run raise by 2-3% p.a., and the chinese, there are chinese buyers, there are arabic buyers, great - they don't push the market, they make up a relatively small part about it, and just because someone 'looks chinese', step back before getting on that 'the chinese are buying' bandwagon and consider that they are actually canadian citizens who work in Vancouver, pay taxes, and are taking out a mortgage - so guess what, they're not immune to all that I have stated above)

sales will dry up, inventory will increase and be on the market for longer, prices will decrease which will actually start a faster fall - i'm no prophet, I just am a business man who has studied economics and other boring stuff who doesn't buy into the BS media. It will happen, it has happened before all over the world... and jsut remember, when everyone else is saying 'its different here' - just know the contrarian view is the right view (not the opposite view, just a different view)

[SumAznGuy]

sales will dry up, inventory will increase and be on the market for longer, prices will decrease which will actually start a faster fall - i'm no prophet, I just am a business man who has studied economics and other boring stuff who doesn't buy into the BS media. It will happen, it has happened before all over the world... and jsut remember, when everyone else is saying 'its different here' - just know the contrarian view is the right view (not the opposite view, just a different view)

I agree 100% with the bit about interest rates. As soon as interest rates jump back to 6% or higher, people who are stretched thin may not afford the minimum payments on their mortgages. Or massive economic downturn where people are getting their hours cut back or laid off.

But don't down play the Chinese money. China has over 1 billion people and many of them have earned a fair bit of money in the last decade and now that China has opened up, many of them are looking to Vancouver. Where else in the world can to go to some place and not have to learn a word of their language and have some of the best chinese food, just like how it was made at home.

If and when all the China people who bought in Vancouver decide to sell and head back to China, then we will have a situation where people have to lower their prices in an effort to sell and the market will come down. But it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon though.

A prime example of this is my current building. When we first moved in, it was primarily Korean students. In the last 2 years, the trend has become all China students renting since China opened their doors and let their people have easier access to leaving the country.

But this is just my opinion that just happens to echo those of a few others I know who is in the real estate industry in Vancouver.

[drunkrussian]

tiny units in a boring area that a bunch of rich chinese people bought in order to profit off. I don't really care. typical vancouver bullshit.

[RFlush]

What economic factors show that interest rates will rise? From what I have seen, with the trillion dollars of debt the US have, they cannot afford to raise interest rates which is the same effect of QE3.

[4444]

I agree 100% with the bit about interest rates. As soon as interest rates jump back to 6% or higher, people who are stretched thin may not afford the minimum payments on their mortgages. Or massive economic downturn where people are getting their hours cut back or laid off.

But don't down play the Chinese money. China has over 1 billion people and many of them have earned a fair bit of money in the last decade and now that China has opened up, many of them are looking to Vancouver. Where else in the world can to go to some place and not have to learn a word of their language and have some of the best chinese food, just like how it was made at home.

If and when all the China people who bought in Vancouver decide to sell and head back to China, then we will have a situation where people have to lower their prices in an effort to sell and the market will come down. But it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon though.

A prime example of this is my current building. When we first moved in, it was primarily Korean students. In the last 2 years, the trend has become all China students renting since China opened their doors and let their people have easier access to leaving the country.

But this is just my opinion that just happens to echo those of a few others I know who is in the real estate industry in Vancouver.

i don't disagree with China being a portion of our current situation, but its not like we, a country of 3x million ppl will suddently let in millions of chinese immigrants, we just don't have an infrastructure to even increase by 50% over 5 years (3 million a year) - and at that, the chinese immigrants coming to canada aren't all going to BC, not by a long shot, MANY go to Toronto & surrounding areas, Calgary, etc. as many don't want to live in Vancouver as its too expensive (only a small portion of immigrants who come here come here not to work)

also i've heard a couple ppl say "the chinese are buying, they're all chinese in my building, no english speaking at that" -probably because they live in richmond (fact) - couple things about this 1) i live in yaletown, my building is a mix of caucasian, chinese, some brown people, some green people, some grey people - a fair reflection of hte population in vnacouver 2) the building across from mine appears similar (yes i can see into their condos, ppl shoudl really learn to put blinds down at night) 3) people see what they want to see, if they think 'the chinese are coming', they'll notice more chinese people, i'm sure anyone with a psych degree can back that up with some BS reasoning, and 4) those chinese people don't need to speak english (a HUGE fault of this city), doesn't mean they're not canadian citizens, just as much as i am, tax paying, hard working (maybe, maybe not), mortgage paying, soon to be negative equity crackers

[4444]

What economic factors show that interest rates will rise? From what I have seen, with the trillion dollars of debt the US have, they cannot afford to raise interest rates which is the same effect of QE3.

US isn't Canada, having said that mortgage rates in the US have been increasing last couple of weeks (go look at the rates now, its true), 'rates' i.e. the overnight rates don't need to go up for mortgage rates to go up, mortgage rates are basically based on long term bond yields, as appetite for long term (20, 30 year) treasury bonds dries up (which it is starting to do so now, i've been a teasuries bear for a couple months - i'm early to the party, but we're starting to see traction on this now), yields go up, and accordingly mortgage rates go up, simple economics. clearly if the fed comes out and increases the overnight rates, that causes bond yields to rise, but its not a 1:1 relationship.

Equally, if the US economy conitunies to recover & (more importantly) inflation starts to become a problem, they will need to cool off inflation, while attempting to maintain the growth, one tool to do that is to increase rates to decrease ease of funds, which will decrease upward pressures on things like oil (probably the biggest aspect of basket inflation).

Fed decisions change like underwear - as soon as something 'new' comes up, they'll have a policy to 'deal' with it - these 'long term' low rates are great and all, but are not sustainable in the long term, and they will be forgotten about soon enough - our fears at this time are stagflation - we have inflation, no question about it ($100+ barrel of oil does that to you) - not a problem if we have growth - canada has anemic (sp) growth, which is another concern to this housing bubble

[iEatClams]

I agree 100% with the bit about interest rates. As soon as interest rates jump back to 6% or higher, people who are stretched thin may not afford the minimum payments on their mortgages. Or massive economic downturn where people are getting their hours cut back or laid off.

But don't down play the Chinese money. China has over 1 billion people and many of them have earned a fair bit of money in the last decade and now that China has opened up, many of them are looking to Vancouver. Where else in the world can to go to some place and not have to learn a word of their language and have some of the best chinese food, just like how it was made at home.

If and when all the China people who bought in Vancouver decide to sell and head back to China, then we will have a situation where people have to lower their prices in an effort to sell and the market will come down. But it doesn't look like it will happen any time soon though.

A prime example of this is my current building. When we first moved in, it was primarily Korean students. In the last 2 years, the trend has become all China students renting since China opened their doors and let their people have easier access to leaving the country.

But this is just my opinion that just happens to echo those of a few others I know who is in the real estate industry in Vancouver.

Totally agree, realtors, and workers at land titles offices (where they see the contracts) notice that there are many chinese buyers.

I think we should lump in the China category into the FOREIGN MONEY category.

And I think that's how we should define these foreign investors or "mainland" chinese buyers.

China has hundred of millionaires and most of them feel Vancouver is a safe place to put there money.

The thing that bugs me most is that many of them abuse our education and healthcare system. A lot of the students here apply for permanent residence, then they no longer have to pay international student rates, then there parents buy them a nice place to live.

But I do agree that if interest rates rise people are fucked. Many of the people here make little money, all the jobs that are left are poorly paid.

Seriously, look at all the types of jobs here in Vancouver, it's saturated with too many scholar graduates (arts/business/ accounting/science) due to the gazillion of Asian kids in university etc and not enough skill-trades graduates that are in short supply.

Vancouver has one of the highest CA / CFA per capita, accountants, analysts, office workers, teachers, etc are paid less than their counterparts in other parts of the country because theres TOO MUCH SUPPLY of these type workers and not enough demand.

All the trades people in vancouver that make $80K a year cant really afford a Single Family House and are forced to live in small condos. So they move to other provinces, leaving no one really to service the wealthy people. whats left is workers that are dont make enough to support the lifestyles. In essence quality of life for these people go down, the poor people pay a large % of their income to taxes, tolls, gas taxes, cardon taxes, HST, etc etc. and commute from suburbs. they have no RSPs, . .. i'm rambling on, but basically. .. . . . theres going to be HUGE problems in the future. . . .

[iEatClams]

Fed decisions change like underwear - as soon as something 'new' comes up, they'll have a policy to 'deal' with it - these 'long term' low rates are great and all, but are not sustainable in the long term, and they will be forgotten about soon enough - our fears at this time are stagflation - we have inflation, no question about it ($100+ barrel of oil does that to you) - not a problem if we have growth - canada has anemic (sp) growth, which is another concern to this housing bubble

Inflation is manipulated by the government cause they always change the definition of "CORE" inflation. which I think is BS, if u include the shiet people actually use, inflation i think is a lot higher than what is actually reported.

[AWDTurboLuvr]

Another "magical" marketing campaign by Rennie thus far. The claims of the building being sold out is false, since there are still brokers advertising that they have units for sale. In fact, drive by the signs out by the project, still no "SOLD OUT" stickers on it. Every other project he's marketed for has always put out the stickers when it's actually done pre-sales.

He's used the media to help drum up business for his future Canada/Evergreen Line projects. If you want, get ready to "line-up" at the Brighouse Station project opening next month...300 units, if you are insane that is.

[DJ Milk]

And the assignment selling of the Marine Gateway presale has already started on Craigslist :high:
SOLD OUT - LAST CHANCE TO OWN @ MARINE GATEWAY if you missed out (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/reo/2916630369.html)
$299900 / 1br - 500ft² - SOLD OUT - LAST CHANCE TO OWN @ MARINE GATEWAY if you missed out (Marpole Vancouver)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2012-03-22, 1:31PM PDT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This project is SOLD OUT in 4 hours total of 415 units.

If you missed out after lining up overnight, this is the chance.

1 bedroom 1 bathroom with NO parking at the Tower, not Podium is available.

Price included assignment fee but you will have to pay the 25% deposit.

You will have 2 days to think about.
Once Released, it will go to the 300+ people waitlist.

Please email for more info.
SERIOUS BUYER ONLY.

8440 Cambie St (google map) (yahoo map)
•Location: Marpole Vancouver

[minoru_tanaka]

^I'm starting to think Bob Rennie is the slimiest guy in the city

[Gridlock]

(PLEASE SOMEBODY, TELL ME WHAT ECONOMIC DRIVERS WE HAVE HERE!??!?!?!? tourism? not really, mining? yes we have head offices, but thats not significant, technology? a couple good start ups... lululemon?)

Thank you!

First, excellent post on the subject, as per usual.

I have never understood fully what makes Vancouver tick. No retail level activity is going to drive the local economy-so all the lawyers and doctors and the 50,000 people that work at the local 30,000 starbucks aren't doing it.

We have construction, some head offices as you said, we have 'some' manufacturing and then what? I think the main thing is building condos and developments actually creates money, and its maintained through retail passing of the buck.

I don't have as much experience as those that work in the field, but here is my little equation that doesn't add up:

High real estate costs
+
No real salary increases
+
No real economic drivers for economy
+
People devoting more of their monthly wage to housing than elsewhere
=one prime location for a drop in real estate prices

Yeah, people have been calling it for years. So what stops it from happening.

These guys that line up and buy out a not-so-hot building in 4 hours. Sure, there is a foreign money component, but I agree that its an influence, but not a driver of our local market. Maybe it is purely, that people will spend redonc money on a small apartment to live here, because we can all do the math. Dino and I do it all the time. Let's move:

Calgary/Edmonton-sure. Nice change. Good economy. Gets a little chilly, yeah?
Toronto-Big. Also cold. Enjoy your commute. Oh, and if you don't like BC politics, you are going to love Ontario.
Halifax-been there, done that. Sure, some nice real estate for a comparative bargain, but good luck finding work...oh, and not getting bored.

So...no one fills boxes.

[bing]

apparently one guy bought 40 units

[sh0n]

apparently one guy bought 40 units

Find it hard to believe when the developer limited one unit per person / per purchaser.

Even if he/she had the whole family + friends line up the unit would be sold to the different named individual.

Also at a lower end spectrum of 300K a pop that would be 12 million in committed contractual obligations in 3 years with 1.2 million due today.

Not a very wise use of capital

[DJ Milk]

I found this blog on one of the real estate forums and it makes you wonder. It basially says there were 106 people in line when the sale started. 106 people can't buy 415 units :suspicious:

Whispers from the Edge of the Rainforest: What's wrong with this picture? (http://whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.ca/2012/03/whats-wrong-with-this-picture.html)

[F30]

I found this blog on one of the real estate forums and it makes you wonder. It basially says there were 106 people in line when the sale started. 106 people can't buy 415 units :suspicious:

Whispers from the Edge of the Rainforest: What's wrong with this picture? (http://whispersfromtheedgeoftherainforest.blogspot.ca/2012/03/whats-wrong-with-this-picture.html)

Excellent find!

Just to add my $0.02, developers who work with marketing companies usually have more than one "opening", some call them "soft opening", followed by "grand opening". Marketing company usually has a list of clients who are ready to pull the trigger and they get first dibs. Insiders get their units first.

[bing]

Find it hard to believe when the developer limited one unit per person / per purchaser.

Even if he/she had the whole family + friends line up the unit would be sold to the different named individual.

Also at a lower end spectrum of 300K a pop that would be 12 million in committed contractual obligations in 3 years with 1.2 million due today.

Not a very wise use of capital

Nvm, your right. This was at a different tower in Vancouver that isn't built yet either, buyer is a Chinese government official (he probably just wants to park his $ somewhere). In general though, not everyone plays by the same rules, only regular people have to line up. If I wanted to buy 40 units, I would go directly to the developer. They would be stupid not to take guaranteed sales.

People that were involved with marine gateway also had first dibs as my mom's client was asking her why their daughter's friend was getting access and why she as their real estate agent wasn't taking them to do so on the same day.

[Gridlock]

We aren't surprised by this, are we?

Why do you think Rennie gets hired? Because he has a graphic designer that makes really good brochures? What do you think Rennie Marketing Systems actually does?

He brings people to the development that have money and want to buy, thus hyping demand, thus getting a bunch of people together to stand in line to buy his shit.

And for that, he takes a slice off something and calls it a day.

You call that sleazy...I call it fucking genius.

[bing]

Maybe it's just me but I would never buy a house/condo/townhome without seeing the finished product first. Many developers use one company to build the show home ("Look how nicely built this is!") but then use a completely different one for the actual building ("$50 to everyone of you if we can't get this 20 story tower up in two weeks!").

Plus moving into an already established neighbourhood gives you an exact idea as to what your view will be, who your neighbours are, and what sort of things you need to deal with on a daily basis.

With that mindset, you'll never get a development that has high interest since everyone else is willing to buy it. Also, not everyone buys units to live in themselves, which is probably the case here at Marine Gateway largely investor-driven. Usually, these units will rise 5% by the time their done construction. My own case, bought a presale 2 years ago and already made 40-50k on my valuation.

[MTV Cribs]

People that were involved with marine gateway also had first dibs as my mom's client was asking her why their daughter's friend was getting access and why she as their real estate agent wasn't taking them to do the same on the same day.

Also they always ask if you're working with an agent. If so then you wait till the public sale. If not then they will have one of their in house agents to double end the deal and let you buy before the public sale.

[nah]

Except not everyone buys units to live in themselves, which is probably the case here at Marine Gateway largely investor-driven. Usually, these units will rise 5% by the time their done construction. I bought a presale 2 years ago and I already made 40-50k on my valuation.

Then you have the flip side of when the first downturn in 08 when people walked away from their presale contracts because they would have lost so much on it. The developers in turn sued them for walking away from their deposits.

I'm starting to notice a lot of large developments going up and this is just from riding the Expo line. When these all complete in 2 years time, there's going to be a huge supply on the market as most people holding presales are in it for investments.

[bing]

Also they always ask if you're working with an agent. If so then you wait till the public sale. If not then they will have one of their in house agents to double end the deal and let you buy before the public sale.

edited: read your statement wrong initially. I believe the developer gets the double commission since their sales people are on salary.

[sh0n]

Anyone bother to check out Telus Garden in Downtown Vancouver?

Interesting project there!

[MTV Cribs]

Was planning too but all the 1 bedroom units were already sold to Telus employees. All that was left were 2 bedrooms unit priced at $660k and up. And last I've heard those units were sold too leaving units $900k and up left. Too rich for me

[Mike Oxbig]

Anyone bother to check out Telus Garden in Downtown Vancouver?

Interesting project there!

TELUS Garden Exclusive Sneak Peek! Downtown Vancouver New Condo Development | Hello Vancity (http://www.hellovancity.com/2012/03/15/telus-garden-exclusive-sneak-peek-downtown-vancouver-new-condo-development/)

Price range:
Home Type Floors Size Range Price Range
1 Bedroom + flex 6-38 467 – 569 sq ft $279,900 – $500,000’s
2 Bedroom + flex 7-21 696 – 774 sq ft $469,900 – $700,000+
2 Bedroom + flex 7-48 802 – 1,131 sq ft $539,900 – $1,000,000+
3 Bedroom + flex 23-48 1,132 – 1,355 sq ft $829,900 – $1,500,000+
Signature Suites 49-50 1,161 – 1,668 sq ft $1,300,000 – $2,000,000+

Deposit Structure

25% total deposit
$20,000 bank draft payable to “Kornfeld Mackoff Silber LLP in trust” at writing Balance of 10% on 8th day after contract writing
3 additional deposits of 5%

Strata Fees

Approximately $0.48/square foot
Strata fees include TELUS Optik TV, TELUS Optik Internet, and 24 Hour Concierge

[miss_crayon]

The one guy who "bought" 30-40 suites was actually a realtor who had a few clients that purchased as VIPS (from what I've heard anyways). Usually VIPS and VIP realtors get to write prior to the public hence when the day comes for the public launch...the building is considered sold out because there is maybe about half left over and the developer had probably already been selling for probably..3-4 weeks? Typical practice with most developers.


Telus Garden ended up being a complete bust for outside Buyers because 38,000 Telus employees got at it first. But then again, it's also typical practice for friends/family/insiders of a company to have a go at it first anyways. Prices are quite high for the size and amount of suites left over IMO. I wouldn't urge my clients to buy there now as it isn't worth the price.

And I can't speak for any of you..but in my opinion..Bob Rennie is far from being a slimey dude. From a business perspective and a personal one...He's good at what he does..which is marketing. Why else do you think there's no one else that can do it like him? Altough I will say George Wong from Magnum is REALLY stepping up his game.

[miss_crayon]

edited: read your statement wrong initially. I believe the developer gets the double commission since their sales people are on salary.

Most developers only pay with a commission structure..long gone are the days of salary ontop of commission for inhouse sales people.

[Tapioca]

My own case, bought a presale 2 years ago and already made 40-50k on my valuation.

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but that valuation means nothing - it's just paper wealth. The market value on my condo has risen well over 100K, but there are over 20 units for sale in my development. Unless you can liquidate that 50K, it's nothing (unless you're leveraging that equity for other investments with returns beyond your borrowing costs.)

[iEatClams]

=one prime location for a drop in real estate prices

Yeah, people have been calling it for years. So what stops it from happening.



Looking at the factors, its easy to see why prices have gone up for the last TEN years now. (except 2008).

Reasons that support the current prices:

+ China has millions of people who are trying to buy places in Canada.
+ Historically low interest rates.
+ easy financing/lending requirements ( CMHC, low down payments, long amortizations)
+ Many locals speculating.
+ lack of supply
+ most immigrants that come to canada end up living in big cities, even though they initially entered through quebec, manitoba etc. which increases the population
+ relaxed real estate investment laws/ no limits restrictions / minimal foreign real estate taxes compared to other countries
+ the old retired people that sold their house for $1 million + downsized and look to live in condos/townhomes (more demand)
+ many people on sideline waiting for home prices to drop to buy


However its also easy to make a case for prices to start coming down:

- interest rates rising
- people already maxed in debt
- no real sustainable long term economy

The main factor being interest rates, but how likely is it that interest rates will rise to historic norms?

[bing]

I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but that valuation means nothing - it's just paper wealth. The market value on my condo has risen well over 100K, but there are over 20 units for sale in my development. Unless you can liquidate that 50K, it's nothing (unless you're leveraging that equity for other investments with returns beyond your borrowing costs.)

I won't take it that way at all. I appreciate honest feedback :) I am waiting to see how many owners decide to sell their units when construction is complete this year otherwise I will rent it out in the meantime.