[xilley]

So, long story short.

we used to have a homestay and he is now back in Asia. When he was here he had to go to the hospital once and the bill was 500 bucks.and he didnt pay for it. (we didnt know about it till now) lately my parents been receiving letters from the ARC. accounts recovery corporation.

so, this one letter said " as required under the business practices and consumer protection act, this is to inform you that we have requested your credit information from a credit reporting agency"

now my concern is are they going to write up a bad report on my parents credits?

and what should be done? as hes no longer in Canada.

[Splmash]

I'm confused.

1) So your parents were the legal guardian, and this kid was considered an infant?

2) He was admitted to a hospital without proper health insurance and without legal guardian consent?

3) The hospital has transferred the amounts owing to be collected by a creditor?

4) The creditor (ARC) is a private company who is now threatening to ruin your parents' credit score?

[xilley]

I'm confused.

1) So your parents were the legal guardian, and this kid was considered an infant? the homestay was 18, 19 now.

2) He was admitted to a hospital without proper health insurance and without legal guardian consent? without proper health insurance (he was using student visa to be in Canada, not a full canadian citizen yet)

3) The hospital has transferred the amounts owing to be collected by a creditor? yes

4) The creditor (ARC) is a private company who is now threatening to ruin your parents' credit score? thats my guess/concern atm

sorry for confusion, as myself am confused at this point as well. so I may not be able to answer all the questions about that teen as I rarely ever spoke to him.

[Splmash]

sorry for confusion, as myself am confused at this point as well. so I may not be able to answer all the questions about that teen as I rarely ever spoke to him.

If the letters sent to your mailing address were in the his name, your parents shouldn't even be opening it. It's against the law. You should write "Return to sender" and something like "this person does not live here" and throw it back in the mail box.

Assuming he was an infant, if he entered into an obligation, the parents or legal guardian does not legally have to take over the debt. Because health care is a necessity, he will still be liable to fulfill his obligations. But a debt can not be transferable, unless your parents co-signed as a guarantor.

Lastly, if the bills are sent in your parent's name, call from your cell phone to have to verify some information. According to the BC Business Practices and Consumer Protection Act Section 115, they must provide you with:

(a) the name of the creditor with whom the debt was incurred,
(b) the amount of the debt, and
(c) the identity and authority of the collector to collect the debt from the debtor.

Part C is key because the authority to collect from the debtor (now your parents) must be legally enforceable. They must have the right reason to contact your parents to pay. They must specifically identify the authority granting them the right to bother you and not him.

After mailing you, they have the right to call you after 5 days. At this point, just request to be contacted only though mail. They must legally do this, according to section 116 (4)(a).

To my belief, a private collections agency's rights are very limited. All they can do is hassle you until you pay. Or sue you. The latter is very rare, because lawyer fees will be significantly higher than the $500 you 'owe.' It is too much hassle to go through the litigation process for such a minor amount. I do not think they have the right to touch your credit score, unless the debt is through the bank or the government. (Don't quote me on this)

[Splmash]

One last thing.

They are legally not allowed to communicate with anyone other than the debtor (the person owing money) according to section 117 of the same act. Unless they are contacting your parents to find a way to contact him, or your parents signed to be a guarantor.

Once again, if the mail is to his name, tell your parents to stop breaking the law and opening up others' mail. It's a federal offense.

[xilley]

thanks for the response splmash.

and on the letter it says " (name of teen), Guardian of (my parents address)

therefore they opened it thinking its for them.

and no I dont think my parents are cosign guardians, as hes basically just a rent.

[Sky_High]

There's difference between a "rent" (tenant) and a legal "homestay".

Which one was the kid?

[melloman]

Yeah really. If he's a REAL HOMESTAY and not just a random who came as a source of income, that means he was brought in through a school. Why aren't you talking to the company who brought him in?

In my younger years, my parents brought in tons of homestay students (for about 12 years~) and if we ever had a problem, we'd go to the company that brought him here and assigned him to us. That's it.

[TheKingdom2000]

Just curious, what did he go to the hospital for?

[xilley]

before this gets anymore confusing, I thought Homestay and Rent were the same thing?!
I didnt know you need to be in a company or whatever, I thought homestay just meant a student that is going to school in another country without their parents.

There's difference between a "rent" (tenant) and a legal "homestay".

Which one was the kid?

I think hes a rent, as I dont recall him having a company who brought him in.

Yeah really. If he's a REAL HOMESTAY and not just a random who came as a source of income, that means he was brought in through a school. Why aren't you talking to the company who brought him in?

In my younger years, my parents brought in tons of homestay students (for about 12 years~) and if we ever had a problem, we'd go to the company that brought him here and assigned him to us. That's it.

I cant answer that question properly yet, as I dont even know if hes a rent or a homestay with a company atm, I believe hes just a rent though.

Just curious, what did he go to the hospital for?

I got no idea. like I said, we didnt even know he went to the hospital.

[Gridlock]

From a logic perspective, if they have your parents names to contact now, they must have somewhere signed something that says, "we back this kid".

Therefore, when said kid doesn't pay, they come after your parents, because that is what they signed up to do.

If the kid put their name down and they didn't sign, then ARC are being dicks just hoping you send in a check. To be blunt, people that work collections have long ago disconnected from any moral ambiguities in their line of work. I wouldn't put it past them.

But honestly, without knowing ANYTHING about the situation as in here's a copy of the paper they have that they even know to contact us or anything other than: we had some kid staying here and now someone wants us to pay for him-we can't help you.

If ARC is calling you, then tell ARC to back up their claim.

I had ARC chasing me over MSP premiums for my ex-girlfriend. I said the same thing...go hunt her down. They came back and said, "when your company started paying her premiums, that made her your problem until you tell us otherwise-so here's a letter stating that we are going to start pursuing you in court."

Bullshit or not, I started paying. Didn't feel like calling their bluff.

And yes...the whole affair landed straight on my credit report.

[RabidRat]

^ That fucking sucks haha. Was it a lot of money too?

[xilley]

From a logic perspective, if they have your parents names to contact now, they must have somewhere signed something that says, "we back this kid".

Therefore, when said kid doesn't pay, they come after your parents, because that is what they signed up to do.

If the kid put their name down and they didn't sign, then ARC are being dicks just hoping you send in a check. To be blunt, people that work collections have long ago disconnected from any moral ambiguities in their line of work. I wouldn't put it past them.

But honestly, without knowing ANYTHING about the situation as in here's a copy of the paper they have that they even know to contact us or anything other than: we had some kid staying here and now someone wants us to pay for him-we can't help you.

If ARC is calling you, then tell ARC to back up their claim.

I had ARC chasing me over MSP premiums for my ex-girlfriend. I said the same thing...go hunt her down. They came back and said, "when your company started paying her premiums, that made her your problem until you tell us otherwise-so here's a letter stating that we are going to start pursuing you in court."

Bullshit or not, I started paying. Didn't feel like calling their bluff.

And yes...the whole affair landed straight on my credit report.

The mail only says " the guardian of (teens name)
they dont have any info of my parents what so ever. so I m guessing their just trying to bluff it?

and I m waiting for their next mail, so I could send it back. hopefully it will stop? I ll update later.

[Gridlock]

^ That fucking sucks haha. Was it a lot of money too?

Well, yes. It was about $800ish for her portion.

What had happened is when I was working for a big company, one of their benefits was they paid the MSP premiums of mine and a spouse(common law in my case)

So I'm like cool! Then we break up and I don't really think about it.
Then I moved. I didn't really think about it.
Then I quit, and I don't really think about it.

The way it was, I never even saw a bill. In fact, I had to get a replacement card and it was sent to the office.

Then they found me(I wasn't even hiding). And both of us were good for $120 a month in premiums. And that shit adds up fast when you don't pay it. And I had started my own biz at that point and money was a little tight. So tight in fact, i could play it like a drum ;)

And then my good friends at ARC got involved. So once business was good, I had it all paid off but I still had them hounding me all the damned time. So much for my free health care. :rukidding:

However...I did get her taken off and she had moved and done some other stuff, so maybe karma is a bitch and she would also get stuck with a fat bill.

Did I forget to call and let her know?

[Splmash]

The mail only says " the guardian of (teens name)
they dont have any info of my parents what so ever. so I m guessing their just trying to bluff it?

and I m waiting for their next mail, so I could send it back. hopefully it will stop? I ll update later.

Is your parents doing this homestay thing totally under the table? Depending on the kid's age, your parents can be sought out as guardians. A minor paid a fixed amount to live in your household under the watchful eyes of your parents, thus making them guardians. But if he just "rented" a room, then you can tell ARC to shove it.

But if your parents' names aren't even on the letters, just forget about it. For the letters that come, just write "This person does not live here, return to sender."

[xilley]

let me clear it up again.. hes a rent, I just asked. Its my mistake for using the word "homestay" as I had a confusion of homestay being any rent thats under 19. ( a student )

and i will do that for the next letter, Thanks guys

[dinosaur]

when he came here....wouldn't he have had some form of insurance through his school or agency that organized the homestay?

can you contact the people who placed him? it could be just an issue of paper work.

[xilley]

when he came here....wouldn't he have had some form of insurance through his school or agency that organized the homestay?

can you contact the people who placed him? it could be just an issue of paper work.

honestly, i have no idea of those things. I just know hes a rent. he was using student visa.

[dinosaur]

well, you're parents are fucked and should have worked this shit out before (medical, liability, etc.)

take the money they made by renting a room to him and pay the damn bill.

be happy its only $500...in the USA, it would be $5000.

lesson learned. move on.

[Gridlock]

Yeah, I'd want to know the details for sure before firing the letter back at them saying I don't care.

These things have a way of coming back.

[xilley]

well, you're parents are fucked and should have worked this shit out before (medical, liability, etc.)

take the money they made by renting a room to him and pay the damn bill.

be happy its only $500...in the USA, it would be $5000.

lesson learned. move on.

So, your saying my parents are responsible for a rents bills?

because I found out that hes just a Rent and not a homestay with any contract to a school or company.

how would it make sense for my parents to be responsible for a rents bills.

so if he was to have credit card bills, then my parents wouldve been responsible for it too?

and please be respectful, as my parents arent "fucked". I m just seeking some help/info for them.

Thanks

[Gridlock]

No need to get angry.

All we're saying, and I think that dino is saying is something that seems to be something of a mystery to a lot of these types of questions...call?

Obviously, in some computer somewhere, there is a link between a minor at the hospital, and a guardian at your home. Is that link going to cost you $500? Fuck dude, how are we to know. It could be bullshit. Or perhaps your parents signed something and forgot about it. No one has seen the paper but you.

Personally, I wouldn't want to ignore it because it is possible it will come up the next time your parents try to use credit and discover a big black mark. Or it could be nothing.

Call ARC...agents are standing by. Give them whatever account number is assigned and ask a simple question, "before I verify information to you, I want you to tell me what you know about me" If they give you your name, then it isn't going to go away.

[sh0n]

From a layman's legal point of view.

If your parents didn't sign off or agree in contract to any of the medical bills (i.e bills are under the homestay person) then I'm not sure why your parents are on the hook.

It's like staying a tenant rented an apartment and had their Cell phone bill sent and billed to the place. But now they have fled the country and the cell phone company is expecting to get paid and will go after you the landlord. Does this make sense to you?

[xilley]

No need to get angry.

All we're saying, and I think that dino is saying is something that seems to be something of a mystery to a lot of these types of questions...call?

Obviously, in some computer somewhere, there is a link between a minor at the hospital, and a guardian at your home. Is that link going to cost you $500? Fuck dude, how are we to know. It could be bullshit. Or perhaps your parents signed something and forgot about it. No one has seen the paper but you.

Personally, I wouldn't want to ignore it because it is possible it will come up the next time your parents try to use credit and discover a big black mark. Or it could be nothing.

Call ARC...agents are standing by. Give them whatever account number is assigned and ask a simple question, "before I verify information to you, I want you to tell me what you know about me" If they give you your name, then it isn't going to go away.


nah, i m not angry or anything.

I ll give ARC a call in a bit when I can.

so if they cant even provide legit information about my parents, does that mean their just fishing?

[Gridlock]

nah, i m not angry or anything.

I ll give ARC a call in a bit when I can.

so if they cant even provide legit information about my parents, does that mean their just fishing?

The only real things I know about collections are from what i picked up in accounting at school. And my little issue with the MSP. Grrr.

Here's what we know. The buy bad debt. There is good bad debt to buy and bad bad debt to buy and depending on its rating they pay more or less for it.

I *think* the good stuff goes for about 50 cents on the dollar. So for this debt, its fresh, its recent and its gov't...let's assume its 50%...so they paid somewhere like $200ish for it. The numbers don't matter, as my point is, they have skin in the game. You aren't dealing with someone that just has a contract to collect, you are dealing with someone that has a bottom line to protect.

The last thing that they are going to want to hear is they spent some amount of money buying the shit debt of a foreign minor that they will never be able to find.

Given that scenario, would I put it past them to ask you to confirm the name and plug it into the computer? Not at all. They will ask you to confirm information...just be careful to stick to confirming info you already know they have.

But I do suggest making the phone call and finding out what is happening.

[xilley]

got it.
will do that soon as i can.

Thanks Gridlock

[GLOW]

Given that scenario, would I put it past them to ask you to confirm the name and plug it into the computer? Not at all. They will ask you to confirm information...just be careful to stick to confirming info you already know they have.


great point. it takes a special type of person to do their job, and i don't mean that as a compliment.

don't get upset when talking to them either, they really get off on it and expect them to say things to totally troll/provoke you. i had a case where there was a mistake and it was up to me to straighten it out & it was a nightmare dealing with them.

[Splmash]

When you call them, use your cell phone only. And when you are providing them with a number, only give them your cell phone number. It's illegal to persistently call you on your cell phone to collect a debt. Gives you a way out.

So if you aren't lying, and he was actually just a renter, your parents are not his legal guardians. You're wasting your time here because you guys broke the law and opened someone else's mail. He owes people money, and your parents never signed as a guarantor of the debt. He breached the contract to pay, not your parents.

In the case your parents did sign something acknowledging that they would assume legal guardian responsibility ... you guys shoulda thought this out better.

[xilley]

why would I make up a story about this medical bill, and what lies could I have possibly twisted this from the first place.

and how is the law broken when it says Guardian of (teens name) obviously it meant my parents did it not? as he was living under this roof, so technically my parents Are the guardian of that teen, Unless they meant the Actual parents of that teen?

[SkinnyPupp]

Somehow your parents became the guardian of this kid. Usually when someone goes to rent a place, the landlords do not become guardians. And you said before that this was a homestay, but now you're changing your story?

Sounds like stories are being changed, or full truths aren't being told. Your parents must have taken him to the hospital, because they don't operate on people without a care card of some sort. So maybe they took him in, used their care card as guardian, and are now responsible for the bills?

In any case, it sounds like your parents are horrible communicators. Try to get the full story from them before contacting ARC on their behalf.

[Splmash]

why would I make up a story about this medical bill, and what lies could I have possibly twisted this from the first place.

and how is the law broken when it says Guardian of (teens name) obviously it meant my parents did it not? as he was living under this roof, so technically my parents Are the guardian of that teen, Unless they meant the Actual parents of that teen?

I'm looking at this from a legal point of view. A guardian doesn't necessary have to be the "legal supervisor" of an infant. I can watch my little brother and be considered a guardian at the time. BUT for schools, hospitals and other institutions, I am still not the legal guardian. BUT if your parents did operate a homestay, they assumed a special responsibility to the guy.

I'm guessing that your parents did operate a homestay (or whatever you want to call it), and thus assumes legal guardianship of the person. Whether they signed to be a guarantor of the fee (debt), is what you want to find out.
Somehow your parents became the guardian of this kid. Usually when someone goes to rent a place, the landlords do not become guardians. And you said before that this was a homestay, but now you're changing your story?

Sounds like stories are being changed, or full truths aren't being told. Your parents must have taken him to the hospital, because they don't operate on people without a care card of some sort. So maybe they took him in, used their care card as guardian, and are now responsible for the bills?

In any case, it sounds like your parents are horrible communicators. Try to get the full story from them before contacting ARC on their behalf.

My thought exactly.

If in fact your parents did bring him to the hospital, they have to sign something to assume responsibility of someone who did not have medicare. But I would assume most students do have medicare (it is required for public schools and universities).

[twitchyzero]

just because someone is homestay it doesn't necessarily mean the homestay hosts become the legal guardian.

[xilley]

what are you guys saying.. or is it me thats confusing you guys

I clearly said that this bill was sent to us THEN we found out he had a medical bill.

and no its not a homestay I cleared that out, earlier saying hes just a rent.

so atm, I m going to wait till monday to give ARC a call, and find out the whole story.
because there seems to be a huge confusion going on, as I know for sure my parents did not sign anything, as they never took this teen to the hospital. AND he wasnt a homestay that we had a contract with.

btw skinnypup, I didnt change the story, I said earlier as well that I did not know the difference between a Rent and a Homestay, I thought Homestay just simply mean "student living here without their actual parents" I did not know there was a contract or anything organization they come through with. so its my bad beyond that confusion, its a change of story.

[xilley]

just because someone is homestay it doesn't necessarily mean the homestay hosts become the legal guardian.

Then shouldnt that mean it has nothing to do with my parents then?

[SkinnyPupp]

Who took him to the hospital? Did he have a care card? How is it that your parents were specifically billed if they weren't there?

[xilley]

Who took him to the hospital? Did he have a care card? How is it that your parents were specifically billed if they weren't there?

my guess right now is, he did not have a carecard and he wrote my parents address down (as that is where he was staying)
therefore the ARC are sending mails to my parents house asking for "guardian of (teens name )"

and I have no idea who took him to the hospital.

Wait, are you guys getting confused because I said "guardian of (teens name)"???
because its not specifically billed, it just says "guardian"

[SkinnyPupp]

Then forward the letter to the guardian!

What I don't get is how he got them to treat him without a care card :suspicious:

[xilley]

Then forward the letter to the guardian!

What I don't get is how he got them to treat him without a care card :suspicious:

I thought the hospital treats anyone as long as they pay, because I know that my cousin that just got here a week ago dont have carecard either and my grandma bought him medical insurance so he can go family doctors or whatever he needs. and the insurance covers up to 50k.

but the process while this teenager at the hospital and how the bill was dealt I have no clue. so I will need to get it cleared out on monday.

[impulseX]

from what i know about going to the hospital as an out of country, they get your passport, enter that in, and (witnessing a friend go to the hospital), i think she paid upfront, and would then deal with the company that she bought the insurance from for reimbursement.

as for your case, we don't know how he got in, who took him there or whatnot, but assuming that at the time he was 18, its natural for the letter to say "to the guardian of (kid)"

just, get as much info as you can from your parents regarding this, and call the collections company as suggested by other members, and be careful with your words and questions.

[dinosaur]

This whole thing is confusing.

How did this kid come to live in your house? Did your parents have an ad on CL or something?

And, by "rent", you mean renter...like tenant? Was there a contract or agreement? How old is this kid?

If, for example, you parents had an ad for a one bedroom in house rental and the dude called and rented it. He happen to be here for school. Finish school, gave notice, and went back home...then, much like a credit card bill, the landlords are not responsible.

[SkinnyPupp]

I thought the hospital treats anyone as long as they pay,

Well he obviously didn't pay, did he

[xilley]

This whole thing is confusing.

How did this kid come to live in your house? Did your parents have an ad on CL or something?

And, by "rent", you mean renter...like tenant? Was there a contract or agreement? How old is this kid?

If, for example, you parents had an ad for a one bedroom in house rental and the dude called and rented it. He happen to be here for school. Finish school, gave notice, and went back home...then, much like a credit card bill, the landlords are not responsible.

exactly what you said dino, My parents had an ad on the chinese newspaper, and he came in and rented it.

and skinny, obvsiously not, but I m confused again then how is he able to get treatment IF they need to pay upfront like impluseX said

[SkinnyPupp]

That's why we think your parents took him to the hospital or something like that

[Gridlock]

Xilly, I don't think anyone is saying you changed the story on purpose, but more just throwing ideas out there.

Honestly, if there is no legal connection between you and the kid in this matter, then ARC pounds sand. No issue.

We're all just saying, in different ways, that if there IS a connection, then you need to know about it because they aren't just going to bend over and stick $500 up their own ass. As much as I would like them too.

[xilley]

Xilly, I don't think anyone is saying you changed the story on purpose, but more just throwing ideas out there.

Honestly, if there is no legal connection between you and the kid in this matter, then ARC pounds sand. No issue.

We're all just saying, in different ways, that if there IS a connection, then you need to know about it because they aren't just going to bend over and stick $500 up their own ass. As much as I would like them too.

Yes I understand you guys are trying to help me. I m not getting rude or anything. I m just as confused as you guys are atm. because this wasnt linked to me, I m just helping my parents with the ARC.

I m going to be over tomorrow, and I ll call with them beside me so I can straighten the story out.

[impulseX]

hope everything is going well