[SSM_DC5]

It's finals time and I don't have the time to do the research right now :alone:. My cousin has asked for my advice :accepted: on choosing a new car for him.

What's important to him or what he's looking for:
Leasing
Cheapest price
Luxury (BMW, Benz or Audi)
entry level 3, C, or A4
X-Drive, 4Matic, Quattro would be a bonus, but not a deal breaker. Benz is giving a free upgrade to 4Matic until the end of April.
I dunno if all the makers do this, but the service that BMW does where they pick up your car, give you a loaner while they work on your car would definitely sway the decision since it'll save him the time of going to the dealership.

What's not important:
which has the most HP/TQ
which has the best handling
which has uber stopping power
which has the most creature comforts

What i'm trying to say is that he's not into cars so pricing and overall cost of ownership will be the deciding factor.

I've looked up some Leasing rates, and it seems like
Audi is 1.9%
Benz is 2.9%
BMW is 4.9%

I know nothing about leasing, nor do i keep up with the luxury brands, so help me out PLEASE. :alonehappy:

[Shorn]

the new 3 series. definitely.

Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparison - Mercedes-Benz C250, Volvo S60 T5, Infiniti G25, Lexus IS 250, Buick Regal GS, Acura TSX, BMW 328i, Audi A4 - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1205_sport_luxury_sedan_comparison/viewall.html)

As mentioned, we sat around screaming at each other for over an hour trying to determine if the Buick was in fact a lamer duck than the Infiniti. We spent all of three minutes declaring the BMW best in test and best in class. This is not just a win for the 328i; it's a massacre. A slaughter. Doomsday. Armageddon. I say this with a straight face: There is no competition. Not only was the BMW's first-place finish never in question, but I can't remember a comparison test with such lopsided results. Honestly, we had a hard time finding bad things to say.


read that, and you will understand.

also if he cares about the driving experience don't get all wheel drive. makes the car heavier and not handle as well. plus for the few days of real snow we get here per year its really not necessary with snow tires.

the base model 320i is really well loaded this year. for about $41k you get nav already which is a pretty good deal.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

is it true that putting 10% of the vehicle's curb weight (sand bag, salt bag, etc..) at the trunk allows easier driving for a RWD car in snow?

the new 3 series. definitely.

Sporty Luxury Sedan Comparison - Mercedes-Benz C250, Volvo S60 T5, Infiniti G25, Lexus IS 250, Buick Regal GS, Acura TSX, BMW 328i, Audi A4 - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1205_sport_luxury_sedan_comparison/viewall.html)




read that, and you will understand.

also if he cares about the driving experience don't get all wheel drive. makes the car heavier and not handle as well. plus for the few days of real snow we get here per year its really not necessary with snow tires.

the base model 320i is really well loaded this year. for about $41k you get nav already which is a pretty good deal.

[Death2Theft]

I'm kinda digging those ct-200h's

[vitaminG]

is it true that putting 10% of the vehicle's curb weight (sand bag, salt bag, etc..) at the trunk allows easier driving for a RWD car in snow?

maybe in a rwd pickup. otherwise its a terrible idea and will upset your cars handling balance making you more likely to spin out. winter tires are ideal but ive gotten by many winters with rwd and a set of all seasons

[marc0lishuz]

A bit unfair how the BMW isn't really a "base" model in that comparison. And wow they have harsh words for the Infiniti... but I'm biased.

[wstce92]

A bit unfair how the BMW isn't really a "base" model in that comparison. And wow they have harsh words for the Infiniti... but I'm biased.

They mention that it was just the model they were given, realistically, a Sport Line 328i comes in at 41k down there which makes it more than comparable price wise.

[Shorn]

I'm kinda digging those ct-200h's

I agree they do look really nice especially with the f sport package but you're paying $36k for a rebadged Prius with leather..

[Gridlock]

Prius with leather..

and hippies everywhere don't know whether to flock to it, or run.

[Sky_High]

:considered:

Sorry, but you sure the title of this thread wasn't suppose to be:

"Which luxury car should my cousin's parents lease for him?"

What's wrong with other brands like Lexus, Infiniti or Volvo?
What's wrong with having a Honda Accord in EX-L with leather?

If he's "not into cars", you sure the vehicle with the most HP/TQ,etc would be appropriate?

If pricing and overall cost of ownership is the biggest deciding factor, why are you even looking at any of these three brands?

Etc etc etc....

[Over9K]

Why lease?

[Manic!]

Why lease?

Because he want's to act like a baller but doesn't have the money to do so.

[belaud]

Because he want's to act like a baller but doesn't have the money to do so.

I can guarantee right now 90% of Richmond's BMW/MB/Audi/Lexus/Porsche/etc are leased, simply because the leaser's are not looking to actually OWN the car, but for a symbol of status, many of them can actually afford to buy the car, but choose not to. Why pay full price for a 2008 C class when you can use that money to lease a newer C Class for the next 6 years. It's also a lot less problematic, once a car hits x amount of KM's, problems arise.

[Over9K]

Leasing is the worst way to have a car...financing makes sense sometimes.

Don't see the point of making payments for a car that you're not gonna own...

[belaud]

Think of leasing as renting. You're renting the car, and at the end of the term, you have the option of actually owning the car. Leasing is super useful for business' that require something to "impress" your client, but would rather keep your image fresh after every lease term, or a work truck/van that you lease every 2/3 years so you don't have to worry about long term maintenance.

[Over9K]

Impress your client with a car? Who gets impressed by what car they drive?

If you do, you're fucking shallow.

Leasing works for fleets, not for personal use.

[yray]

financing: baby the car, slowly step on the brakes

leasing: redline every day, slam on the brakes

[Over9K]

lol whut.

Driving a car harder is better for the engine, why would you wanna baby a car you're gonna own?

Fuck you guys are weird.

Half of the people on this forum:

:fulloffuck:

[bing]

Leasing is the worst way to have a car...financing makes sense sometimes.

Don't see the point of making payments for a car that you're not gonna own...

You really need to learn to see both sides of the argument. A lot of the posts you have made in here show you to be totally clueless talking out of your ass.

I will tell you that from my experience of owning and leasing, the depreciation hit on leasing was the same as owning. Leasing makes sense if you always want to switch cars and it saves you the hassle of having to privately sell your car. Part of the payment can also be used to write off some business expenses. Another added benefit is if you ever get into a significant accident, the value of the vehicle will tank in proportion and that is when you realize how nice it is when you can walk away at the end of the term.

To OP: The current gen Audi look will be good till 2014 before they come out with a new design (Audi's designs I find tend to date quicker out of the bunch), but the BMW just came out and the new look will last for 6 years (actually longer cause you can drive it for another 6 till it gets REALLY dated) so I would definitely check that out (definitely a bonus maintenance free). I think the current C has been out for awhile now too. I have no experience with Mercedez Benz but I find that when they do face lifts, the slightly older models (first year of the current gen) still look great.

[belaud]

Impress your client with a car? Who gets impressed by what car they drive?

If you do, you're fucking shallow.

Leasing works for fleets, not for personal use.

Guess who's shallow? Clients. First impression is everything, if you're driving them in a 1996 corolla instead of a 2012 C300, they'd have different thoughts. I'm talking in a business aspect, not personal usage.


Driving a car harder is better for the engine, why would you wanna baby a car you're gonna own?

:rukidding: So you're telling me, if I bag on the car every day, it will last longer then driving normally?

[Over9K]

Guess who's shallow? Clients. First impression is everything, if you're driving them in a 1996 corolla instead of a 2012 C300, they'd have different thoughts. I'm talking in a business aspect, not personal usage.




:rukidding: So you're telling me, if I bag on the car every day, it will last longer then driving normally?


Yes sir, don't bounce of the limiter, but drive it hard. Blows carbon out and keeps it nice and clean inside.

Don't tell me you break in new engines by pussy footing them?

[yray]

^ how hard is hard???

By baby I mean soft to regular acceleration, don't need to kick in vtec all the time yo :lawl:

[Over9K]

Heavy acceleration through the mid range with lots of decel.

[bing]

Because he want's to act like a baller but doesn't have the money to do so.

You jelly? Regardless, you still need a significant down payment (unless you like paying higher rates) and be approved by finance. Not like anyone can just walk in who can afford the monthly.

I know a guy who makes 250k+/yr that leased 3 cars (Range Rover, CLK, E350, etc) and pays like 4k/month just on car payments alone but lives in a 3-4 million house. I guess he's a pretender too. Either way, for a base model lease you are spending at least a G per month on associated costs.

car payment: ~$500-600 (little to no downpay + limited options on car - definitely no navi)
gas: ~$360 (that's just 1 tank a week @ $90 per fill)
insurance: ~$200-225 (full coverage w/ 25% @ 2500/yr. If you had 43% you would probably pay closer to $2k/yr).

This is not factoring the higher cost of maintenance either especially if it was not included in the selling price. Audi and I believe Benz do not include free service.

[yray]

I forgot to add, if you do lease try to choose a model that is changing . Rates are much cheaper than a brand new model.

Eg. 2011 135i was 5smth for 3.6k down
BMW is free maintenance but don't expect to keep the car with their maintenance schedules. My 2010 only got one oil change so far :lawl: Don't buy the upgrade package, you won't destroy your brakes within three years. Some horror stories when returning the car according to some people eg: paint scratches.

Benz, maintenance is regular and costly. They may change the brake pads for you if your brakes start to creak within two years. They do offer cheap buy back rates at the end of your lease if you do want to buy the car. You can get some deals if you alert the dealer early when you bring it in at end of lease.


All dealerships will give you loaners when they do long maintenance. Otherwise, you have to sit in their lounge for an hr or two. Richmond autowest is random, sometimes they give you a 125, 323 or even a camry. Benz will give you the model above yours for your first maintenance and then its yaris after that :troll:

[SSM_DC5]

:considered:

Sorry, but you sure the title of this thread wasn't suppose to be:

"Which luxury car should my cousin's parents lease for him?"

What's wrong with other brands like Lexus, Infiniti or Volvo?
What's wrong with having a Honda Accord in EX-L with leather?

If he's "not into cars", you sure the vehicle with the most HP/TQ,etc would be appropriate?

If pricing and overall cost of ownership is the biggest deciding factor, why are you even looking at any of these three brands?

Etc etc etc....
By far, the worst and most irrelevant response in here so far.

re-read my original post and pay closer attention to detail.
I'm not even going to bother answering the other dumb questions you asked because I would just be wasting my time.

I forgot to add, if you do lease try to choose a model that is changing . Rates are much cheaper than a brand new model.

Eg. 2011 135i was 5smth for 3.6k down
BMW is free maintenance but don't expect to keep the car with their maintenance schedules. My 2010 only got one oil change so far :lawl: Don't buy the upgrade package, you won't destroy your brakes within three years. Some horror stories when returning the car according to some people eg: paint scratches.

Benz, maintenance is regular and costly. They may change the brake pads for you if your brakes start to creak within two years. They do offer cheap buy back rates at the end of your lease if you do want to buy the car. You can get some deals if you alert the dealer early when you bring it in at end of lease.


All dealerships will give you loaners when they do long maintenance. Otherwise, you have to sit in their lounge for an hr or two. Richmond autowest is random, sometimes they give you a 125, 323 or even a camry. Benz will give you the model above yours for your first maintenance and then its yaris after that :troll:
Thanks for this!

So leasing rates will vary from model to model? or are you referring to a different rate when you say "Rates are much cheaper than a brand new model"

what kinda deals are you referring to when you say "You can get some deals if you alert the dealer early when you bring it in at end of lease." A deal on the buyout or a deal on the next lease?

[yray]

^yea, just look at glk and new c class
I mean a new car but last yrs model, like leasing a E90 3series vs a F30 now.

deals come at the end of lease, usually a 1% off int. rate like acura or they can cut off some price or w.e.

buyout prices cannot be change I think

[GabAlmighty]

is it true that putting 10% of the vehicle's curb weight (sand bag, salt bag, etc..) at the trunk allows easier driving for a RWD car in snow?

maybe in a rwd pickup. otherwise its a terrible idea and will upset your cars handling balance making you more likely to spin out. winter tires are ideal but ive gotten by many winters with rwd and a set of all seasons

Don't listen to him. Don't put 10% as that's a lot. Usually a couple bags of sand (100lbs?) in the trunk and you're good to go.

[Ferra]

Leasing is the worst way to have a car...financing makes sense sometimes.

Don't see the point of making payments for a car that you're not gonna own...
:rukidding: That's the worst advice ever...

My real life example:
Did a 3 years lease on a $82,000 (MSRP) vehicle a few years back, the residual value was 60% = $49,000. I got a discount of $7,000 on the car, so the final selling price was $75,000

And I guess either because of the financial crisis, rising gas prices, or the leasor (BMW) fucked up their residual value calculation, the car was only worth $40k at the end of the lease.
Obviously I chose to return the vehicle instead of buying it out at a $10K premium.

So for that 3 years of leasing, I took a hit of $26,000 in depreciation instead of $35,000 in depreciation if I were to finance it.

You can argue this example can go the other way (i.e. residual value set too low), but then with leasing you always have the option to buy out the vehicle if the buyout price turnout to be a bargain.

[Ferra]

The car itself aside, I usually consider the following things when I lease a vehicle:
1) lease interest rate
2) residual values
3) lease terms

Always check the repair/maintenance schedule, Pick a lease term that avoid the major tune-up/parts replacement (e.g. brake/rotors, tires) timing.

If the brake is due at 50,000km, you want to return the vehicle at 48,000km instead of 52,000km
(e.g. on my last lease, 4x RFT tires + brake/rotors cost more more than $4,000)

Try to find a vehicle with a High residual value. High residual value means you are paying LESS for the vehicle during your lease term.

If the lease interest rate is much higher than the financing rate, it might be better to finance it instead.

I prefer leasing because it gives you much more flexibility. i.e. if your car had a $20,000k accident you probably don't want to keep it

[q0192837465]

Leasing makes total sense if u can write it off for business use. Other than that. It's a pretty bad way to get a car financially

[Kalize]

what about taking over a lease?
sometimes you can get a really good deal

[UFO]

Leasing makes total sense if u can write it off for business use. Other than that. It's a pretty bad way to get a car financially

Not at all. I used to think that as well, but buying a new car and trading your old one in every 2-4 years is a pretty bad way to get a car.

[Geoc]

One piece of mind when it comes is to leasing is that you'll be on the manufacturer's warranty for the whole lease term, it's a piece of mind when it comes to european cars.

My dad's X5 was not 2 weeks old before it went back into the shop for 5 days. :heckno:

[CharlieH]

you can't only be looking at low lease rates either. if they don't plan on buying it out then you need to look at the residual value of the car at the end of the lease term. generally a good residual for a 3 year lease is anything above 50%. just because they offer you 1.9% doesn't mean your monthly payments are going to be low.

for example, BMW offered their M3 at 3.9% a while back but with a residual of 28% after 3 years. so in the end the monthly payments were almost as much as a porsche 911 C2, which had a residual of 51%. ideally you want low interest, high residual.

[jackmeister]

Are residual rates negotiable? Just wondering.

[Ferra]

Leasing makes total sense if u can write it off for business use. Other than that. It's a pretty bad way to get a car financially
coming from an accountant, realistically it makes no difference whether you lease or finance a vehicle
Finance = write off depreciation expenses
Lease = write off lease payment expenses

The end sum is all the same.

*There is actually a $30K auto limit or $800/month lease payment limit for tax deduction. In some instances the maths might favour leasing by a bit, but usually by a negligible amount.


Are residual rates negotiable? Just wondering.
No, residual value is set by the manufacturer, dealers have ZERO control over residual values.

I actually notice most manuf. set a very low residual values on their cars now compare to 5-6 years ago...

[Ferra]

One piece of mind when it comes is to leasing is that you'll be on the manufacturer's warranty for the whole lease term, it's a piece of mind when it comes to european cars.

Are you sure that's true? as far as I know warranty & leasing are not related in anyway. I.e. if you have a 5 years lease on a car with 3 years warranty and something broke down in year 4, you have to fix it first before you return the vehicle.

But then I have never seen anyone lease a car longer than the typical manufacturer's warranty term. (5-10years+)

[GLOW]

@Ferra
i find it very hard to read your posts with your avatar there :whistle:

[Cman333]

Yes sir, don't bounce of the limiter, but drive it hard. Blows carbon out and keeps it nice and clean inside.

Don't tell me you break in new engines by pussy footing them?

I don't think driving it hard all the time is "better". You've overlooked a few things. Driving your car hard all the time is not good for your car in the long run. Causes more premature wear and tear on the engine internals. You're basically suggesting excessive wear and tear on the engine components to prevent carbon build up. Although what you're saying about carbon buildup is is not false, I wouldn't say its "better". It's like that double edged sword saying.

Certain cars are more susceptible to carbon buildup.

There are other methods of doing so without suggestion everyone drive hard 24/7. I do back you on pussyfooting, people shouldn't be pussy footing anyways. ESPECIALLY in the left lane :mad:.

Anyways the method 9k is talking about is also known as the Italian Tune Up.

Italian tuneup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup)

[Manic!]

Leasing makes total sense if u can write it off for business use. Other than that. It's a pretty bad way to get a car financially

How does it make business sense to lease a car?

I don't know why anyone would go into dept just own a car.

[jackmeister]

How does it make business sense to lease a car?

I don't know why anyone would go into dept just own a car.

instead of you personally paying 100% of the lease after taxes, you can write off a portion as an expense, and reduce your business's income tax

[Cman333]

How does it make business sense to lease a car?

I don't know why anyone would go into dept just own a car.



"debt" btw ;)

Makes business sense in terms of you can declare it as a business expense and write it off. I know alot of Real Estate agents that lease, yes it makes logical sense to buy a car and drive it until it dies, but in our vain society image means alot. Nice car = success. Success = you're good at what you do. (So you want others to think)

Therefore leasing makes more sense. Instead of financing 70K car (which you can't write off).

Lease vs Buy? Car Leasing versus Buying Explained (http://www.leaseguide.com/lease03.htm)

[Manic!]

instead of you personally paying 100% of the lease after taxes, you can write off a portion as an expense, and reduce your business's income tax

And how much does that save?

[Jgresch]

... lot's of assumptions/false statements in this thread.

[jackmeister]

And how much does that save?

Might want to see an accountant for that, because everyone has different situations and numbers. But to start, corporate vs personal tax rates. You can go from there.

[SSM_DC5]

... lot's of assumptions/false statements in this thread.

now imagine you're in my position, where you gotta try and figure out what to believe.

-so look for low interest rate and high residual value
-$800/month lease payment limit for tax deduction
^ didn't know this, so i'll definitely have to pass that on in case my cousin doesn't know this either.


I would like to know more about how the maintenance works though. Does the dealership make you agree to a certain maintenance schedule for Leased cars?

[belaud]

Full coverage insurance, no matter what. You must have a FULL record of maintenance for your leased car if you intend to give it back. Wear & Tear is fine, so long as its not excessively obvious that it was abused.

[Over9K]

I don't think driving it hard all the time is "better". You've overlooked a few things. Driving your car hard all the time is not good for your car in the long run. Causes more premature wear and tear on the engine internals. You're basically suggesting excessive wear and tear on the engine components to prevent carbon build up. Although what you're saying about carbon buildup is is not false, I wouldn't say its "better". It's like that double edged sword saying.

Certain cars are more susceptible to carbon buildup.

There are other methods of doing so without suggestion everyone drive hard 24/7. I do back you on pussyfooting, people shouldn't be pussy footing anyways. ESPECIALLY in the left lane :mad:.

Anyways the method 9k is talking about is also known as the Italian Tune Up.

Italian tuneup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_tuneup)

I didn't mean 24/7. Just once a day on your drive to school or work...make sure it's safe too.

[Manic!]

Might want to see an accountant for that, because everyone has different situations and numbers. But to start, corporate vs personal tax rates. You can go from there.

I have my brother. He says no to leasing.

[Jgresch]

I have my brother. He says no to leasing.

What is his reasoning?

[wstce92]

What is his reasoning?

Very clearly nothing based on mathematical calculations.
Or consideration of the opportunity of using the cash you save from not putting it all into your car at once to make more cash.

There are so many benefits to financing/leasing/cash; depending on rates, residuals, cost of the car, etc. Can't believe how thick some people in this thread are.

[SSM_DC5]

...
No, residual value is set by the manufacturer, dealers have ZERO control over residual values.
...

Can anyone confirm that the all dealerships will lease their cars with the same residual value? Of course assuming that we're talking about identical cars, but different dealerships.

[CharlieH]

^

i'm 99% sure that lease/finance rates and residuals are solely determined by the manufacturer.

[Jgresch]

Nopppeeee. don't you think it would be a little unfair to determine the residuals themselves?

Finance rates are determined by the banks. If a manufacturer wants to offer promo rates they have to go through the bank to do it.

Residuals are determined by the leasing company/BB.

[CharlieH]

^

so for a company like BMW which has their own financial services department then it would really be up to the manufacturer, right? from what i remember they have their own bank which is a subsidiary of bank of america.

[too_slow]

^I've always assumed BMW Finance was a separate entity from BMW AG, kind of like GMAC (finance arm) is independent from General Motors. I could be wrong..

[sebTeggy]

lol whut.

Driving a car harder is better for the engine, why would you wanna baby a car you're gonna own?

Fuck you guys are weird.

Half of the people on this forum:

:fulloffuck:

He wants to raise his fail count. I shall thank him :accepted:

[Roach]

Finance rates are determined by the banks. If a manufacturer wants to offer promo rates they have to go through the bank to do it.


Some dealerships provide in-house financing as an alternative option to banks. Particularly useful for new immigrants or self-employed individuals who may not get financing approval from the bank.

In-house rates are typically above bank rates, however.

Kev

[Over9K]

He wants to raise his fail count. I shall thank him :accepted:

:suspicious:

I'm actually giving out legit advice here guys, but it's your car, you can do what you want.

Ever wonder why cars that are driven by old people don't last very long when driven hard? Or that when an older person comes to a shop, most of the time the tech's will decoke the engine?


:toot:

[CharlieH]

^

and to prevent that all you need to do is to floor it once every few days and change your oil when it's needed, not drive the shit out of it like it's a race car.

[Jgresch]

Some dealerships provide in-house financing as an alternative option to banks. Particularly useful for new immigrants or self-employed individuals who may not get financing approval from the bank.

In-house rates are typically above bank rates, however.

Kev

Not sure if a dealership who offers in house financing would allow the manufact. to determine residuals.

And by In-house you are talking about entities such as Toyota Financial correct? Because most major dealerships offer "In House" financing, but they still go through the banks.