[z3german]

My court date is June 4 in the Robson Court. I have asked and received for the evidence and the thing that gets me is "-there is no such calibration logs available for our laser instruments."

Last time I went to court in Richmond Court house and as it was my first time in court i decided to stay and listen to the trials. Judge A. Himani was informing the alleged speeders of the procedures the police have to make and he said that police have to calibrate before their shift, and then again after their shift. If the calibration is off at the end of their shift all their tickets are considered void (but if you go out and pay right away to get that 20% or so off you are admitting to guilt for those who dont know.) Judge A. Himani was very informative and mentioned laser methods and radar methods so im assuming there must be calibration for both.

Here are the officer notes as well as what i found in the manual of the laser device the officer used that i found relevant. I also added the letter i used to ask for evidence.

Request for evidence

DISCLOSURE REQUEST


Date: March 26, 2012
Offence Number: AH000000000
Offence Date: March 26, 2011
Defendant: Cheng Un Bartholomew Yong
Charge: Speeding (Motor Vehicle Act 146(1))
Court Date: June 4, 2012
Court Location: 800 Hornby Street, Vancouver, BC V6Z2C5
Officer Name:
Officer Badge #: XX0000

In regards to the charge above, and with respect to the guidelines established by the$R. v. Stinchcombe, 1991 (SCC) and subsequent cases, I request that you provide me with all relevant information so that I can prepare a defence, and make full answer, to the charge mentioned above. Without limiting this request, I specifically ask that you include:

* A full copy of the officer's notes, typed if not legible;
* If short-form writing is used in the officer's notes, please have the officer provide an explanation for the short forms;
* A copy of the manual for the speed-measuring device used by the officer
* Official documentation of the calibration of the speed-measuring device used by the officer at the start of his shift and at the end of his shift
* Any photographic or video evidence if it exists and the Crown intends to use it at trial

I also request that you inform me of any information that is not being disclosed, with an explanation for such. If you require further information from me or have any questions regarding my request, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you.



Cheng Un Bartholomew Yong
1234 ABC road
Richmond, B.C.
000 000
(604) 000 000

The officer notes
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/002.jpg
The calibration section of the Ultralyte LTI 20/20. It says here "We also suggest a test area be permanently installed in a convenient location."
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/viewer.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/viewer1.png
Download of the whole manual for those interested
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/ultralyte_100_manual.pdf


So the manual says it recommends daily calibration. Although the officer says "there are no such calibration logs available for our laser instruments" wouldn't the system be set up to have that documentation otherwise i would assume officers would NEVER EVER calibrate as there is no repercussions if they dont (they would just say they did even if they didnt). I have a feeling this cop is jerking me off because why wouldn't there be documentation? The manual also states that there should be a set area for such calibration for consistency, so why would they (police department) ignore such an important step? Judge A. Himani is in Richmond so im asking because maybe its different in vancouver? Please those with more knowledge than me shed some light. And please im not looking for answers like "if you were speeding then pay up, stop wasting the courts time" i understand your opinion and respectfully disagree. Keep it on topic! Sorry for the mega long read.

WON CASE BY COP NOT SHOWING UP, SKIP TO LAST PAGE.

[belaud]

Regardless of calibration, if you really weren't speeding, 80km/hr in a 50km/hr zone is like purchasing the gun & immediately using it is what you're trying to say.

[bluejays]

Like how he spelled visible wrong. But anyways, you don't need a radar gun to tell that you're going over the speed limit if you're going 80 in a 50 zone. He was nice enough to give you a break and only charge you for 51km/h so I dont see what you're complaining about. I doubt that they would throw out the case because of this

[Sky_High]

Awesome middle name: Cheng Un Bartholomew Yong

:fullofwin:

[z3german]

Regardless of calibration, if you really weren't speeding, 80km/hr in a 50km/hr zone is like purchasing the gun & immediately using it is what you're trying to say.

According to Officer Bains he says there is "no such calibration logs" so if there really is no such calibration logs why would officers ever calibrate? If there are no logs at all would it be a not so unreasonable assumption that they have never calibrated it since purchase? Or in fact ever? That long without calibration can make up the gap between 50 and 80 kmh.

Again im not trying to fight my case to win, i made this thread more for the information i can get since now i have the time for this. If in the end you guys convince me to just pay, i will do so. But in learning if i happen to win then all the better! :)

[z3german]

Like how he spelled visible wrong. But anyways, you don't need a radar gun to tell that you're going over the speed limit if you're going 80 in a 50 zone. He was nice enough to give you a break and only charge you for 51km/h so I dont see what you're complaining about. I doubt that they would throw out the case because of this

The last two sentences in the original posts are ment for your type of comments. I have nothing to complain about i understand but as i said in the OP its a learning experience more than anything. And if in the end i can get away with it all the better.

[belaud]

According to Officer Bains he says there is "no such calibration logs" so if there really is no such calibration logs why would officers ever calibrate? If there are no logs at all would it be a not so unreasonable assumption that they have never calibrated it since purchase? Or in fact ever? That long without calibration can make up the gap between 50 and 80 kmh.

Again im not trying to fight my case to win, i made this thread more for the information i can get since now i have the time for this. If in the end you guys convince me to just pay, i will do so. But in learning if i happen to win then all the better! :)

Continuous usage of a gun without calibration will not deter it even further, its calculations remain the same regardless if you used the gun once or 100 times afterwards, the actual difference from no calibration to calibration is 3-5km/hr~, it would've never passed QC if it was reading 80km/hr @ 50km/hr.

Just eat the ticket, guy didn't even charge you for excessive speeding, he's being HELLA nice.

[z3german]

Continuous usage of a gun without calibration will not deter it even further, its calculations remain the same regardless if you used the gun once or 100 times afterwards, the actual difference from no calibration to calibration is 3-5km/hr~, it would've never passed QC if it was reading 80km/hr @ 50km/hr.

Just eat the ticket, guy didn't even charge you for excessive speeding, he's being HELLA nice.

Damn you sound so reasonable T_T sigh, guess another $138 gone in july...

[4444]

80 in a 50 zone isn't excessive

Cop saying charge may go up is trying to scare you, unless you're a douche, fine won't go up.

No log will likely mean get off free, as manufacturer recommends it. But be prepared to argue well in court (by well, I mean good, reasonable, articulate discussion), otherwise, you'll look a fool and judge won't be impressed

[bluejays]

Another 138? If this is your second speeding ticket you'll be 6 points or over, meaning you'll have to pay more icbc premiums. Just go to court and try your best to dispute, you never know what will happen, the cop might not even show up and they'll throw the case out

[godwin]

When do recommendations become procedures?

[jakers]

I know this english grad that asked the officer if she could write an essay instead of get the ticket for going 20mph over. She copied and pasted some BS physics from wikipedia and got out of the ticket. Just be original haha

[nickmak]

at first i was like "who cares about the calibration, just pay the ticket you fuck"

then i looked at your location. then i was like "oh. right."




coffee time bitches

[91civicZC]

I have a feeling this cop is jerking me off


Im pretty sure what you mean to say is the cop is "jerking you around". Telling people the cop is "jerking you off" is not quite the same thing.

[Gridlock]

I know on revscene you get a lot of "you did it, so pay the ticket" but I for one support fighting it.

And I'm not talking, "well, if the cop doesn't show I win" but actually a person taking on justice.

It's these types of cases that come up when there is a big news story, "100's of laser guns not calibrated before use in BC" and shit changes. Yeah, you were probably doing 80 in a 50. The next guy might be doing 54,,in which case the calibration comes into effect.

It's your right to go to court. Right. Not the way we use the term 'rights' in conversation about bullshit, but actual right.

Use it, or you lose it.

[Glove]

the problem with posting your potential ticket fighting evidence on RS,

is that no one cares, and would rather bash you and flame you for trying to dispute it, rather than just admitting it and paying the ticket.

which is stupid in itself, the guy came here asking for advice and everyone just rags on him for speeding, even if he did, who gives a shit, he's trying to find a loophole, we should be helping him.

I wish we could just come here and discuss potential ticket fighting methods together as a team, since its a car website, instead we bicker and the government collects our money.

[Soundy]

I know on revscene you get a lot of "you did it, so pay the ticket" but I for one support fighting it.

And I'm not talking, "well, if the cop doesn't show I win" but actually a person taking on justice.

It's these types of cases that come up when there is a big news story, "100's of laser guns not calibrated before use in BC" and shit changes. Yeah, you were probably doing 80 in a 50. The next guy might be doing 54,,in which case the calibration comes into effect.

It's your right to go to court. Right. Not the way we use the term 'rights' in conversation about bullshit, but actual right.

Use it, or you lose it.
I'd normally be right on the "man up, you do the crime, you pay the fine" bandwagon, but in this case, I have to agree to a point.

Cops have procedures that they have to follow to prevent them from just sitting at the side of the road pulling people over randomly and handing them any ticket they feel like... or for that matter, from just busting down anyone's door and cuffing them without some burden of evidence.

The dispute process exists to help ensure the cops follow their rules too.

If the cops are getting slack in their procedures, it's absolutely your right to work within the system to keep them accountable, just as their job is to keep you accountable for your actions.

Now given the level of training and experience cops have in estimating speed and that the instruments are normally used for *confirmation* of that estimate; and given that if you were actually doing 80 in a 50 zone, even a noob would know you were speeding, even if they couldn't state the exact speed... I doubt you'll get off on this one. However, it's still a good thing to hold the cop's feet to the fire to "encourage" him to follow proper procedures in the future.

[GGnoRE]

I think it is worthwhile arguing for the sake of $138.

But, there are few things different with this speed gun that are worth noting. First, there is NO calibration, only a passive "Confidence Check". If you ask why was there no calibration? The cop is right in saying that there is no calibration function with this speedgun. A lot of measurement devices such as a thermometer, scale etc, require an active calibration at a known setpoint, but this device differs. However, I guess you could argue whether or not he performed a confidence check. In the manual it says, "The scope may become misaligned by a heavy blow to the instrument" (Pg. 28). Misalignment to a laser gun means its not reliable, so you could ask the cop, how do you know the officer before you didn't drop it or damage it (which could have dealt a heavy blow) if you don't do a confidence check before you use the gun? Maybe you have better ideas...

Also, the manual "recommends" that the user checks daily, but it doesn't say it "must" be checked daily. It reads "Tele-Traffic recommends that this test be performed at regular intervals (daily)." If the cop says it is checked monthly, or bi-weekly, or weekly? the judge might say, that is good enough. The spec on this device says error values are within +/- 1 mile/hr by the way.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. I am curious to know.

[optiblue]

fight it and see!

[PJ]

+1

Curious to know the results as well.

[Gridlock]

Yeah, I mean I get a little annoyed with the "hey, the n00b cop made a spelling error in my address, so that means I get off right" posts, but so many times we jump on people exercising their rights to question a ticket received.

Was this guy speeding? Probably. I wasn't there.

Has someone done his homework, collected evidence and going to go to court and make a legitimate case? Hell yeah!

You get props from me right there.

Let's lower the morality clause on revscene a little bit and save it for the dumbasses.

It's not this guys single-handed job to not clog the court system. It's his court system too.

[Marco911]

PMed you some advice. Good luck.

[z3german]

Another 138? If this is your second speeding ticket you'll be 6 points or over, meaning you'll have to pay more icbc premiums. Just go to court and try your best to dispute, you never know what will happen, the cop might not even show up and they'll throw the case out

I recently had a ticket that had to do with a rolling stop

Yeah, I mean I get a little annoyed with the "hey, the n00b cop made a spelling error in my address, so that means I get off right" posts, but so many times we jump on people exercising their rights to question a ticket received.

Was this guy speeding? Probably. I wasn't there.

Has someone done his homework, collected evidence and going to go to court and make a legitimate case? Hell yeah!

You get props from me right there.

Let's lower the morality clause on revscene a little bit and save it for the dumbasses.

It's not this guys single-handed job to not clog the court system. It's his court system too.

Awesome bunch of replies! After reading all the replies im gonna fight it. Marco911 gave some great advice as well as other members on the forum. When court date is here i will update you on what happened!

[PornMaster]

I am disputing a rolling stop ticket as well. Well not rolling stop he said I blew through the 4 way stop.

The thing is he had no clear line of sight and a big white van was on my left and waved me through even though he got there first, that is why it looked like I just gunned it through.

Do I have a case?

[z3german]

I am disputing a rolling stop ticket as well. Well not rolling stop he said I blew through the 4 way stop.

The thing is he had no clear line of sight and a big white van was on my left and waved me through even though he got there first, that is why it looked like I just gunned it through.

Do I have a case?

Was the cop perpendicular to you? Recently a professor won a rolling stop case with this paper. http://db.tt/u4ahwJbX

it sounds very similar to your case. You can print out the paper and try to understand the jist of it, you can also state what case it is and that the professor won the case. just google his name im sure you can find more details

[Harvey Specter]

It's going to depend on the judge. Most judges I find are fair when it comes to fighting tickets, if you're lucky you might get a judge that goes after the cop. I've witnessed a judge who drilled a cop in front of the court to the point were the cop was visually getting pissed and embarrassed because he made several errors on a ticket but wouldn't admit to it.

I think you do have an argument that might sway the judge in your favor.

[TurboFC3S]

Didnt read others replies, but this is a story of when i was at course and a guy had the same case as you.

The guy tried to fight the same ticket, had soo many good questions for the officer and thought of everything he could possibly say to try to get out of the ticket. The judge still took the cops side though, and the cop said how he can judge speed by eye since hes has been doing it for xx amount of years etc.

Whats worse is the cop was doing this over the phone in court! which i think is bullshit. Cant even show up to court... so the police officer had no physical evidence to present, just his word against the defendants and he still won. You have a good point tho with your case and the guy never asked that question directly (for documentation of calibration)... Good luck with the case!

[z3german]

The bolded quotes are exactly what im going to say word for word in the court.
If you think something should be changed pm or comment on the thread!
The green font are questions i have!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8RiuBpy-S-1eSSKXAxODgiukoZqcrBkIVYyBX907PQ/edit

Marco911 hasnt replied me yet so if someone can chime in to tell me what and when (how will i know) when it is cross examination and how will know when is the time for closing arguments? Ive only been to court twice and everyone in the room just pled guilty both times .

[godwin]

As I have said in my post before, manufacturers' recommendations maybe not be department procedures, that's probably why they don't keep a log of it. It seems the calibration requirement has more to do with US law enforcement than Canadians, and more with radar more than laser. You should look at the margin or error of miscalibration would be (I don't it will be significant since it is solid state electronics, they have to align the scope for seeing target more than the laser element). if it could be +/- 30kph then you are golden (I highly doubt it).. if it is +/- 5kph you are just wasting your time.

If you are so bent on winning, why don't you hire a lawyer? A lot of law firms would do these cases pro bono if you have a long standing relationship with them. They just send their articling student to stand in for you.

Oh to OP, if you think there is calibration data and officer is "jerking you around" you can always file a freedom of information request http://vancouver.ca/police/organization/support-services/information-privacy.html

The bolded quotes are exactly what im going to say word for word in the court.
If you think something should be changed pm or comment on the thread!
The green font are questions i have!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y8RiuBpy-S-1eSSKXAxODgiukoZqcrBkIVYyBX907PQ/edit

Marco911 hasnt replied me yet so if someone can chime in to tell me what and when (how will i know) when it is cross examination and how will know when is the time for closing arguments? Ive only been to court twice and everyone in the room just pled guilty both times .

[bing]

Didnt read others replies, but this is a story of when i was at course and a guy had the same case as you.

The guy tried to fight the same ticket, had soo many good questions for the officer and thought of everything he could possibly say to try to get out of the ticket. The judge still took the cops side though, and the cop said how he can judge speed by eye since hes has been doing it for xx amount of years etc.

Whats worse is the cop was doing this over the phone in court! which i think is bullshit. Cant even show up to court... so the police officer had no physical evidence to present, just his word against the defendants and he still won. You have a good point tho with your case and the guy never asked that question directly (for documentation of calibration)... Good luck with the case!

I believe traffic offenses are civil matters so verdicts are based on a balance of probabilities. This means that the officer only needed to convince a judge that his/her case is 51% likely to be true. Generally if there is no evidence on either side (i.e. officer's word against an individual), the testimony of the officer is considered to be more credible (less biased). Buddy here obviously did not have much of an "air of reality" to his argument/defense if this was the case. Usually if the officer does not show you pretty much get off so in this case the officer must have made arrangements with the court ahead of time to call in (and the court deemed it an acceptable way to give testimony). Keep in mind, the officer would have said the same thing anyways. My own experiences in court is that usually the only "evidence" presented by the officer is what they say based on their memory or notes written on the back of the ticket. This is after all not a criminal case where they will most likely need to be present.

[crazyazn]

I was in a similar situation in the past as well. However, I was let off easy because the cop did not show up.

If I were to dispute again (hopefully I won't), what you've done so far is pretty much the same as what I would do.

Your download/dropbox links don't work btw...not sure if that's just me though.

[Soundy]

Was the cop perpendicular to you? Recently a professor won a rolling stop case with this paper. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/1204.0162v1.pdf

Error (404)
We can't find the page you're looking for.
:alone:

[z3german]

Error (404)
We can't find the page you're looking for.
:alone:

Weird it was working yesterday, updated with new link

http://db.tt/u4ahwJbX

Is there some sort of download max for dropbox public folders or something?

[Leopold Stotch]

i was recently in court, the chick who went to defend herself had the lowest ticket. she couldn't defend herself properly and got slapped with a 268(?) dollar fine. the way i see it, you got let off, and just plead guilty and ask for the fine to be reduce, the cop will usually ask you that.

[z3german]

i was recently in court, the chick who went to defend herself had the lowest ticket. she couldn't defend herself properly and got slapped with a 268(?) dollar fine. the way i see it, you got let off, and just plead guilty and ask for the fine to be reduce, the cop will usually ask you that.

I have some great advice from the members here and the fine difference is 198 vs 138 so its not the worse if i happen to lose. If it was 268 or something i would probably just plead guilty.

[z3german]

Court date was today and i went. I prepared a entire script with scenarios on what the officer might answer with and i feel my case was quite solid and was looking forward to seeing how it panned out. Semi-unfortunately the officer didnt even show up LOL! I will post, when i have more time, my entire script paper for those interested in what case i did have. Man i was looking forward for the learning experience but whatever! I am $196 less poor! :fullofwin:

[Kidnapman]

Congratz mate, :thumbsup:
In for the script!

[BraedenDA]

May I ask how long it took you to get your court date when you disputed?

[The_AK]

nice, also in for script as I've recently encountered a bullsh*t ticket myself

[Nightwalker]

They don't even need the gun to give you the ticket.

[z3german]

May I ask how long it took you to get your court date when you disputed?

This particular ticket was exactly a year. Got ticket March 26 2011, received court date notice on March 26 2012. I disputed the ticket within the week i got it, maybe even the day i got it (which happens to be my birthday :okay:)

K i will post my script and the evidence i used as a download link as .ODT (openoffice), PDF, .docx (microsoft word). I will post download links from drop box, if they stop working just let me know ill find a better hosting site to upload and repost link.

This is my script :


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/TRIAL%20OBVIOUSLY%20BETTER%20COPY.odt

The bolded black lettering is what i say, non bolded is just for reading when the officer or judge is talking so i can envision what sort of tone i want to use. Green font is an action as in to give judge evidence and what not.

Within the script you will see "give pink tab to judge". The following download links shows what would be in the pink tab.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/002.jpg
These images are scans of what the officer provided to me when i asked for disclosure (Evidence he plans to use in trial)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/Disclosure%20request%20March262012.odt
This is download link to the disclosure request i sent to the office, once by going to the station and asking the receptionist to give it to the officer. Second time a week later through the mail.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/Final%20Lidar.odt
This is something I put together researching other US lidar cases in which they were thrown out. On the second page its some rules and regulations that other states have put into place as requirements.


As a general rule of thumb, I feel all minor traffic violations should be disputed. It keeps the officers in check to follow proper procedure. For example if you are ticketed for speeding and at the end of the officers shift they calibrate and find out its not calibrated, your ticket would be counted as no evidence when you go to court. But you would only know that the officer doesnt have evidence if you dispute! Once you pay you admit to guilt, which is why if you would never in a billion years get a refund after you pay for a ticket that has no evidence. It is completely within your rights to ask for disclosure and I strongly recomend doing so. Its under your charter of rights and freedom to a right to fair trial. Use it or you will lose it. If you ask for disclosure and the officer never sends it to you, in court NEVER accept the offer to go outside the court room and review the evidence, politely say that this does not give you sufficient enough time to make a case for yourself. Their only 2 options would be to post pone the court date, or to just let you off under No evidence. I feel Canada is becoming more and more a police run state (province? country?) where cops are getting away with a lot more than they should be, and may be slacking off on some proper procedures they should be doing. Our right to dispute and our right to a fair trial is one of the few things we can exercise to make sure officers do proper procedures, right down what they are suppose to right, be thorough in their notation, etc. Good luck in all your disputes and court action. Exercise your rights and freedoms while we all still can, who know when we will lose them.


Special thanks to Marco911 for taking the time to review my case and gather a lot of ideas that were a large part of the script itself.

[subordinate]

Good effin stuff z3.

I got a similar ticket, at the Knight speed trap. Figured I had no case, since these guys are traffic cops, and I was pretty much the lone one going down the hill.

Wish I saw this thread. Thumbs up.

[fd3]

This will e a good read for my friend!

[Vulgate]

Nicely done! You're efforts paid off.

This particular ticket was exactly a year. Got ticket March 26 2011, received court date notice on March 26 2012. I disputed the ticket within the week i got it, maybe even the day i got it (which happens to be my birthday :okay:)

K i will post my script and the evidence i used as a download link as .ODT (openoffice), PDF, .docx (microsoft word). I will post download links from drop box, if they stop working just let me know ill find a better hosting site to upload and repost link.

This is my script :


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/TRIAL%20OBVIOUSLY%20BETTER%20COPY.odt

The bolded black lettering is what i say, non bolded is just for reading when the officer or judge is talking so i can envision what sort of tone i want to use. Green font is an action as in to give judge evidence and what not.

Within the script you will see "give pink tab to judge". The following download links shows what would be in the pink tab.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/001.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/002.jpg
These images are scans of what the officer provided to me when i asked for disclosure (Evidence he plans to use in trial)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/Disclosure%20request%20March262012.odt
This is download link to the disclosure request i sent to the office, once by going to the station and asking the receptionist to give it to the officer. Second time a week later through the mail.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64423098/Police/Final%20Lidar.odt
This is something I put together researching other US lidar cases in which they were thrown out. On the second page its some rules and regulations that other states have put into place as requirements.


As a general rule of thumb, I feel all minor traffic violations should be disputed. It keeps the officers in check to follow proper procedure. For example if you are ticketed for speeding and at the end of the officers shift they calibrate and find out its not calibrated, your ticket would be counted as no evidence when you go to court. But you would only know that the officer doesnt have evidence if you dispute! Once you pay you admit to guilt, which is why if you would never in a billion years get a refund after you pay for a ticket that has no evidence. It is completely within your rights to ask for disclosure and I strongly recomend doing so. Its under your charter of rights and freedom to a right to fair trial. Use it or you will lose it. If you ask for disclosure and the officer never sends it to you, in court NEVER accept the offer to go outside the court room and review the evidence, politely say that this does not give you sufficient enough time to make a case for yourself. Their only 2 options would be to post pone the court date, or to just let you off under No evidence. I feel Canada is becoming more and more a police run state (province? country?) where cops are getting away with a lot more than they should be, and may be slacking off on some proper procedures they should be doing. Our right to dispute and our right to a fair trial is one of the few things we can exercise to make sure officers do proper procedures, right down what they are suppose to right, be thorough in their notation, etc. Good luck in all your disputes and court action. Exercise your rights and freedoms while we all still can, who know when we will lose them.


Special thanks to Marco911 for taking the time to review my case and gather a lot of ideas that were a large part of the script itself.

[SumAznGuy]

As a general rule of thumb, I feel all minor traffic violations should be disputed. It keeps the officers in check to follow proper procedure. For example if you are ticketed for speeding and at the end of the officers shift they calibrate and find out its not calibrated, your ticket would be counted as no evidence when you go to court. But you would only know that the officer doesnt have evidence if you dispute! Once you pay you admit to guilt, which is why if you would never in a billion years get a refund after you pay for a ticket that has no evidence. It is completely within your rights to ask for disclosure and I strongly recomend doing so. Its under your charter of rights and freedom to a right to fair trial. Use it or you will lose it. If you ask for disclosure and the officer never sends it to you, in court NEVER accept the offer to go outside the court room and review the evidence, politely say that this does not give you sufficient enough time to make a case for yourself. Their only 2 options would be to post pone the court date, or to just let you off under No evidence. I feel Canada is becoming more and more a police run state (province? country?) where cops are getting away with a lot more than they should be, and may be slacking off on some proper procedures they should be doing. Our right to dispute and our right to a fair trial is one of the few things we can exercise to make sure officers do proper procedures, right down what they are suppose to right, be thorough in their notation, etc. Good luck in all your disputes and court action. Exercise your rights and freedoms while we all still can, who know when we will lose them.


QFT

Even if you know you were speeding and the officer shows up, you can always talk to them prior to standing in front of the JP and try to get a lower charge.
Or you can go to the JP and ask for extended time and or a lower fine. But you will still have to pay the 15% victims surcharge.

And about asking for "disclosure" this is a very important step in your fight to dispute the ticket.