[Boostaholic]

2012 vs. 1984: Young adults really do have it harder today - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/2012-vs-1984-young-adults-really-do-have-it-harder-today/article2425558/)

[murd0c]

My parents first house was $30k in Winnipeg. My first car was almost more then that...

[Tim Budong]

Pretty much agree with that
The average person does come out of school with some money
if they live at home and are smart, then it shouldnt be THAT hard. At the same time, needs have changed and we spend more on things that wouldnt be a necessity back then

but really, with this gen, if you make a stupid choice, thats technically your own fault

[LiquidTurbo]

Times change, people change, it has to be dealt with, nothing is a right.

[FerrariEnzo]

its been like that WAY before 2012....

[wstce92]

Young people in 2012 are just more self-entitled, with worse work ethics and screwed up money priorities; compared to their 1984 counterparts.

[drunkrussian]

back then if your job involved working with your hands or doig something for society like a newspaper editor you were paid what you were worth and you disnt need mich more.

nowdays the internet makes newspaper jobs worthless and everyone wants a white collar and all the things that come with it - cars, houses, toys. as this continued competition increased, capitalism did its thing and here we are today working our asses off to afford shit we dot need, on credit. perfect example of this shift from extreme to extreme is japan.

so did our affordability go down? yes. but its our own fault. so i refuse to make excuses or put blame on a generation before me. if u work your ass of and remain a step ahead of your peers you will succeed and enjoy your life, regardless.

[b0unce. [?]]

step your shit up then

[Death2Theft]

Thats what happens when you stop keeping score at kids sports games so everyone can be a winner.

[Meowjin]

Young people in 2012 are just more self-entitled, with worse work ethics and screwed up money priorities; compared to their 1984 counterparts.

did you even read the article?

also nice to see a rich dude saying shit like that.

[BrRsn]

people just like to whine. I have a few cousins who came over to Canada FOB status within the past 5 years, in 5 years they somehow saved up enough to move into a house in delta and get 2 cars and have a kid and are pretty financially stable. Neither of them of have any formal training nor do they work in any trade. If you want it bad enough, you can do anything (They worked 2 jobs each for the first year they were here)

It's pretty hard to be motivated when you're sitting in your parents $1,000,000 house with food/ammenities paid for (majority of the people who I know that aren't doing shit/not saving their income)

[Duff Beer]

Very well put by The Globe and Mail. "Go to school, get good grades so you could get a good job.. Boom Student Loans.. earn your paychecks.. Boom Mortgage.. get married, have kids.." and so on.

"Follow what everybody else is doing," this is what we're brainwashed for. Sad.

[Excelsis]

Region Average Price 1984: $116,444

Actual Average Price Today : $761,742

:QQ:

[BrRsn]

Region Average Price 1984: $116,444

Actual Average Price Today : $761,742

:QQ:

that's not even accurate .. for $750,000 you'd be lucky to get a lot/50 year old house in vancouver :fuckthatshit:

[westopher]

I'm pretty sure they didn't just pull the fucking number out of their ass. Home prices don't only refer to a single detached house.

[twitchyzero]

haven't read the whole article yet, but wasn't there also a economic recession in the mid 80's? So it would make the playing field somewhat even?

[Meowjin]

haven't read the whole article yet, but wasn't there also a economic recession in the mid 80's? So it would make the playing field somewhat even?

interest rates spiked in the late 80's. there was an early recession in 93 I believe.

[mr_chin]

Now I finally understand why my dad always tells me stories that starts with "back in my days..."

I feel you dad! :QQ:

[asian_XL]

and young adults spend money on all kind of ridiculous things these days, it is almost impossible for save up money.

smart phone
data plan
laptop, ipad, ipod, mp3, computer
LCD in every room
modding cars
wifi gadgets at home
high credit limit credit card even before graduate
world of war craft, star craft
gaming console with the gaming collection
internet
and the most important, gas price in mid 80s was almost 50% cheaper (include inflation)

[Hurricane]

did you even read the article?

also nice to see a rich dude saying shit like that.

And leave it to the poor people to assume the rich guys didn't get to where they are with hard work, graciousness, and well-informed financial decisions.

[Eastwood]

Thats what happens when you stop keeping score at kids sports games so everyone can be a winner.
This is incorrect. The best public school system in the world belongs to Finland where they promote equality and look down upon competition. This can also be correlated to why the Scandinavian countries experience the highest levels of happiest, and coincidentally why they are the most equal countries on the Earth.

[unit]

and young adults spend money on all kind of ridiculous things these days, it is almost impossible for save up money.

smart phone
data plan
laptop, ipad, ipod, mp3, computer
LCD in every room
modding cars
wifi gadgets at home
high credit limit credit card even before graduate
world of war craft, star craft
gaming console with the gaming collection
internet
and the most important, gas price in mid 80s was almost 50% cheaper (include inflation)

dont you think people had plenty of ways to spend their money back then too?

[Supafly]

Survival of the fitest. If you're a lazy bastard, you deserve to die off like the rest....
You dont get something for nothing.

[InvisibleSoul]

Vancouver
Average Price 1984: $116,444
Price Today If Homes Had Risen by the Inflation Rate Since 1984: $236,187
Actual Average Price Today: $761,742

Dafuq.

[InvisibleSoul]

Young people in 2012 are just more self-entitled, with worse work ethics and screwed up money priorities; compared to their 1984 counterparts.

Failed not because it's not true, but because it's out of context here.

Bottom line is it is way tougher for young people nowadays to get financially comfortable when house prices are more than three times more than what it was equivalently less than 30 years ago, but income has not come anywhere close to matching the rate of increase.

[GLOW]

Vancouver
Average Price 1984: $116,444
Price Today If Homes Had Risen by the Inflation Rate Since 1984: $236,187
Actual Average Price Today: $761,742

Dafuq.
those numbers make me feel like
:okay:

[RFlush]

What I would like to see is the statistic of average consumer spending over the past 20 years given into account of inflation. I cannot say for certain, but it seems like personal spending has increased a lot.

[murd0c]

What I would like to see is the statistic of average consumer spending over the past 20 years given into account of inflation. I cannot say for certain, but it seems like personal spending has increased a lot.

Just think 20yrs ago there was no internet, cell phones or really any decent TV service. Now people are spending so much cash on electronics and going out for dinner I wouldn't be surprised if it has increased 1000%

[twitchyzero]

Young people in 2012 are just more self-entitled, with worse work ethics and screwed up money priorities; compared to their 1984 counterparts.

okay may be not the best priorities...self-entitlement is debatable but to say poor work ethics is a stretch IMO.

[LIKEABOSS]

Bravo, some great responses guys!

Society is always full of chumps who complain about this or that and falsely believe that things were easier in the past. In my view, they are just chumps, plain and simple.

I was born in the 80's and I remember my dad's mortgage rate was around 17% LOL, that's as much as credit cards charge! But hey, easy times right?

Boobs who think "things were cheaper back then" don't seem to understand inflation (or perhaps they do and just want to make excuses). You cannot compare 1980's prices with todays prices without adjusting for the inflation that has taken place. And I'm talking about real inflation numbers, not the nominal (re: severely underreported) rates posted by governments. Oh and there's also this little thing called a housing bubble that affects prices.

I find that people who have a habit of making excuses always like believing that "all those other people" have advantages that they don't have (in Vancouver, these bums' favourite excuses seems to be "rich asian kids"-as if there are no kids of upper middle class people elsewhere lol).

At the same time, underachievers always conveniently fail to point out the advantages that they have that other people of other times/places don't have. Advantages like living in one of the wealthiest and freest countries in the world, or having access to all the useful information in the world (think wealth creation) at their fingertips. But alas, lemons are lemons for a reason. They will bitch about their "problems" to other lemons while the successful are busy earning their success.

[unit]

back then you could forget about a mortage and horde all your money into investments with the sky high interest rates, then when the interest rates dropped down you'd have a pile of cash to buy a house with.

[Sid Vicious]

Bravo, some great responses guys!

Society is always full of chumps who complain about this or that and falsely believe that things were easier in the past. In my view, they are just chumps, plain and simple.

I was born in the 80's and I remember my dad's mortgage rate was around 17% LOL, that's as much as credit cards charge! But hey, easy times right?

Boobs who think "things were cheaper back then" don't seem to understand inflation (or perhaps they do and just want to make excuses). You cannot compare 1980's prices with todays prices without adjusting for the inflation that has taken place. And I'm talking about real inflation numbers, not the nominal (re: severely underreported) rates posted by governments. Oh and there's also this little thing called a housing bubble that affects prices.

I find that people who have a habit of making excuses always like believing that "all those other people" have advantages that they don't have (in Vancouver, these bums' favourite excuses seems to be "rich asian kids"-as if there are no kids of upper middle class people elsewhere lol).

At the same time, underachievers always conveniently fail to point out the advantages that they have that other people of other times/places don't have. Advantages like living in one of the wealthiest and freest countries in the world, or having access to all the useful information in the world (think wealth creation) at their fingertips. But alas, lemons are lemons for a reason. They will bitch about their "problems" to other lemons while the successful are busy earning their success.

at least you didnt have to deal with shitty dubstep, and the sheep that love it

[Psykopathik]

Now I finally understand why my dad always tells me stories that starts with "back in my days..."

I feel you dad! :QQ:

My dad herded cows and never went to school....worked his ass off to put 4 kids through school and I never thanked him yet...

Now that I'm a dad with only 1 kid and know how it feels, And I've had it EASY.

Fuck I'm tearing up now...

:okay:

[Death2Theft]

How many Fins are billionaires?
This is incorrect. The best public school system in the world belongs to Finland where they promote equality and look down upon competition. This can also be correlated to why the Scandinavian countries experience the highest levels of happiest, and coincidentally why they are the most equal countries on the Earth.

[cruz-in]

My parents first house was $30k in Winnipeg. My first car was almost more then that...

im from winterpeg and my parents say the exact same thing.

my dad used to tell me that when companies are laying people off, some people actually volunteer because you were still able to pay your mortgage with your EI.

my parents house was just over 24k.

My parents also told me that back in 91' places in downtown used to cost 60k only hahah

[dachinesedude]

whats up with people talking about work ethics, did you even read the article? its about how prices have risen more than salaries, by more than inflation

Today, financial self-sufficiency is impossible without taking breaks from school to work. The Bank of Canada’s handy inflation calculator tells us that my $1,000 tuition back in 1984 would cost $2,028 today if it increased just by the inflation rate annually. But according to Statistics Canada, the latest read on average tuition fees is $5,366.

House prices themselves are an abstract number – the real question is how affordable a home is. Data from a 2011 Conference Board of Canada study on income inequality shows the average family after-tax income in 1984 was $48,500. In 2009, the latest date included in the study, income levels had risen to $60,000. In 1984, a house might have cost a family 1.6 times its annual income. Today, we’re looking at a multiple of something around six.

[Simplex123]

What I would like to see is the statistic of average consumer spending over the past 20 years given into account of inflation. I cannot say for certain, but it seems like personal spending has increased a lot.

Here you go:
http://i45.tinypic.com/nznggg.jpg

It's taken out of my ECON textbook. RFlush is right. As you guys can see the gap between income and consumption has closed in quite a bit since the 80's.

[mikemhg]

Mind blowing some of the posts coming out about "Work ethics". It's also funny that the assholes that are posting this are sitting at home sucking from their parent's tits.

Productivity has gone UP, not down, quit spewing that bullshit propaganda.

The truth is our government, and the baby boomer generation have failed our generation. The system has already been rigged and jeered out of this generations favour, fact is all of us will have it harder than our parents did, plan and simple. Inflation has risen at a MUCH HIGHER rate in relation to wages, that is a simple fact.

It's almost mind blowing at one point where a household could have a single income coming in, with the wife staying at home. Nowadays, having a family is a serious financial burden, it's one of the main reasons I have no intentions of having children. To lose the combined income from my spouse would be an unimaginable financial hit.

The system is fucked. Housing prices will have to fall at some point, I am a firm believer of this fact. The current trend we have going on in the US, and to a lesser point the US, simply can't go on forever here. Something is going to have to give, and eventually it will.

It's kind of sad reading some people's posts on this stuff. You would think we people as a whole would want to see society and the quality of life for all improve. We know that societies eventually fail when wealth accumulates too far at the top. I guess it's human nature in the end though isn't it?

[niu99]

Survival of the fitest. If you're a lazy bastard, you deserve to die off like the rest....
You dont get something for nothing.

why r u thinking like a capitalist?

[optiblue]

I'm going to get my $1.39 jr chicken now :(

[2damaxmr2]

Cry more.

[Tapioca]

Here you go:
http://i45.tinypic.com/nznggg.jpg

It's taken out of my ECON textbook. RFlush is right. As you guys can see the gap between income and consumption has closed in quite a bit since the 80's.

Lower interest rates since the late 1980s have discouraged saving and encouraged spending (cheap money/credit.)

Cash is no longer a sound investment strategy. Playing stocks is, but unfortunately, most people don't have the knowledge and risk tolerance to make the gains that they would have made from cash in the 1980s. You basically need to make 7-9% on your money to outdo inflation (real inflation which includes fuel increases) and only a small minority get these returns on a consistent basis. The transfer of wealth to the stock market is one reason why the gap between the rich and poor has grown.

[dboy]

I plan on moving out of Canada.

[wstce92]

did you even read the article?

also nice to see a rich dude saying shit like that.

I'm not rephrasing what the article said, I'm saying what I feel about the topic of the current generation vs previous.
Glad to know you have such a in depth knowledge of my financial situation. First off, I am no where near rich yet. Second, I can guarantee you I had a poorer childhood compared to you and greater student loans. Sorry an immigrant family like mine all made something of ourselves though, please accept my apology. And coming from anything but a upper class background, it pains me that SO many people like you feel that rich people shouldn't have a say in issues because their rich. Because majority of rich people are just gifted a money tree by God right? Keep your jealousy in check, it's not a good color on anyone.

Failed not because it's not true, but because it's out of context here.

Bottom line is it is way tougher for young people nowadays to get financially comfortable when house prices are more than three times more than what it was equivalently less than 30 years ago, but income has not come anywhere close to matching the rate of increase.

You're comparing apples to oranges.
Vancouver is nowhere near what it was 30 years ago.
As cities grow, advance; they get more expensive. Why? People will flock to good things, and thus drive the price up. It's simple supply and demand.
If you can't afford to live in Vancouver, it's not the government and economy failing you, it's you not realizing or willing to accept that to obtain the level of success you want, that you need to move. If you don't want to move, you need to reevaluate your expectations.
Being BORN somewhere, does not mean you have the right to live and succeed in that city.
Life isn't a gym where you can pay a bit extra at the beginning when you join, in order to lock in the same monthly payments for life.

Mind blowing some of the posts coming out about "Work ethics". It's also funny that the assholes that are posting this are sitting at home sucking from their parent's tits.

Productivity has gone UP, not down, quit spewing that bullshit propaganda.

The truth is our government, and the baby boomer generation have failed our generation. The system has already been rigged and jeered out of this generations favour, fact is all of us will have it harder than our parents did, plan and simple. Inflation has risen at a MUCH HIGHER rate in relation to wages, that is a simple fact.

It's almost mind blowing at one point where a household could have a single income coming in, with the wife staying at home. Nowadays, having a family is a serious financial burden, it's one of the main reasons I have no intentions of having children. To lose the combined income from my spouse would be an unimaginable financial hit.

The system is fucked. Housing prices will have to fall at some point, I am a firm believer of this fact. The current trend we have going on in the US, and to a lesser point the US, simply can't go on forever here. Something is going to have to give, and eventually it will.

It's kind of sad reading some people's posts on this stuff. You would think we people as a whole would want to see society and the quality of life for all improve. We know that societies eventually fail when wealth accumulates too far at the top. I guess it's human nature in the end though isn't it?

I'm not arguing that the government and baby boomer generation have some responsibility in the current climate.

But a increase in productivity now, is not solely indicative of work ethic. Ever hear of technology and greater choice of worker for example?
Saying that "work ethic" is fine because productivity has gone up. I don't even know how to respond to that. :fulloffuck:
Please pick up a book.

Most people who don't think there's anything wrong with the "work ethic" with the majority of younger people/ entry level workers; clearly have lower standards because they themselves have a shit sense of work ethic and accountability.

And once again, people who live with support from their parents/rich people can't have a good work ethic?

And please direct me to a parental "tit" I can suck on, would help me relieve a lot of monetary stress.

[goo3]

Here you go:
http://i45.tinypic.com/nznggg.jpg

It's taken out of my ECON textbook. RFlush is right. As you guys can see the gap between income and consumption has closed in quite a bit since the 80's.

To compare...

http://www.bcrealtor.com/images/bkcan_75.gif

edit: Yah, the high interest rate was because of high inflation back then.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/chart2.gif

[dboy]

^dafuq

dat 15%+ interest rate

[flagella]

There'll always be excuses. This part never changes.

[m!chael]

How many Fins are billionaires?

Do you want a society that creates happiness or one that creates billionaires?

[RFlush]

Do you want a society that creates happiness or one that creates billionaires?

If I am the billionaire, I would be happy as fuck :fullofwin:

[asian_XL]

57. Not Good Enough - YouTube

[drunkrussian]

How many Fins are billionaires?

how many fina are dead broke? how many fins are hobos? how many fins are depressed? how many fins eat and drink and substance abuse themselves to death?

[Meowjin]

I'm not rephrasing what the article said, I'm saying what I feel about the topic of the current generation vs previous.
Glad to know you have such a in depth knowledge of my financial situation. First off, I am no where near rich yet. Second, I can guarantee you I had a poorer childhood compared to you and greater student loans. Sorry an immigrant family like mine all made something of ourselves though, please accept my apology. And coming from anything but a upper class background, it pains me that SO many people like you feel that rich people shouldn't have a say in issues because their rich. Because majority of rich people are just gifted a money tree by God right? Keep your jealousy in check, it's not a good color on anyone.



I bet you didn't.

[RFlush]

Second, I can guarantee you I had a poorer childhood compared to you and greater student loans.

I bet you didn't.

You two seem like you are both comparing who has the shorter cock, but in the end, both have tiny wieners.

[Meowjin]

You two seem like you are both comparing who has the shorter cock, but in the end, both have tiny wieners.

Except only one of us is insecure.

[InvisibleSoul]

You're comparing apples to oranges.
Vancouver is nowhere near what it was 30 years ago.
As cities grow, advance; they get more expensive. Why? People will flock to good things, and thus drive the price up. It's simple supply and demand.
If you can't afford to live in Vancouver, it's not the government and economy failing you, it's you not realizing or willing to accept that to obtain the level of success you want, that you need to move. If you don't want to move, you need to reevaluate your expectations.
Being BORN somewhere, does not mean you have the right to live and succeed in that city.
Life isn't a gym where you can pay a bit extra at the beginning when you join, in order to lock in the same monthly payments for life.
I don't even particularly disagree with what you wrote here. But how does this counter the argument that things were financially easier for those in the 80's vs those now?

Are you saying the apples to apples comparison means comparing Vancouver in the 80s to somewhere else in the 2010s?

What is the equivalent of Vancouver 80s in your opinion?