[Harvey Specter]

I hope this little bitch gets a nice beating in jail...

http://media.greenradio.topscms.com/images/38/43/bfc6990841f2a5b5ca605ee26170.jpg

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - A disabled woman has lost her main means of communication to thieves on the Skytrain.

The woman's iPad was taken in an attack that started on a train near Metrotown just before 9:30 last Thursday night.

Transit Police Staff Sgt. Ken Schinkell says a man tore the tablet right out of Cassie Campbell's hands.

The woman in her mid-20s is deaf, has cerebral palsy and is confined to a wheelchair.

"It's absolutely appalling that they'd do something like this to someone in a wheelchair," says Schinkell. "When he pulled her iPad out of her hands, he actually pulled her out of the chair, she tried to block these fellows from getting off the train, ultimately one of them struck her in the face and he stepped over her."

Another man was able to help the suspect get away at the Royal Oak Station.

Police have some video of at least one of the men as they try to track down the people responsible.

One man is described as Aboriginal with a tattoo on the left side of his neck, 18-20, 5'9 with short black hair. He was wearing an army green colour shirt and blue track pants with a white stripe down the side.

The second man is also described as Aboriginal, between 22-25, with a small goatee and short black hair. He was wearing a grey hooded sweatshirt and black track pants.

The story seems to have struck a nerve in the city.

News1130 has already received a phone call from someone offering to replace Campbell's iPad.

[Qmx323]

11677

[BaoTurbo]

Wow. That is pretty low going after someone that is handicapped.

[Santofu]

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGEEEEEEEEE. :flipthetable:

[SB7]

Egad, this is appalling.

[mmmk]

Here's another link the the Vancouver Sun (there's a pic of the 2nd guy as well):
Disabled woman in wheelchair assaulted and robbed on SkyTrain near Metrotown by two men (http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/technology/story.html?id=6627454&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[blee123]

i need to sweet chin music this punk when i get a chance

[bcrdukes]

i need to sweet chin music this punk when i get a chance

Sig'd.

[smoothie.]

^lol.

[kwy]

Were there bystanders? If so, why the FUCK did they stand around doing fuck all?

In any case, these kids are fucking sad pathetic parasites..

[wstce92]

only fitting punishment for such a fucking low-life is to castrate him with no anesthesia, film it, and make him watch it every waking second of his time in prison.

[Psykopathik]

whats the point of a security camera if all it does is take grainy fucking pictures?

[sonick]

Global BC | Woman with cerebral palsy robbed of her iPad on the SkyTrain: People step forward to help (http://www.globaltvbc.com/woman+with+cerebral+palsy+robbed+of+her+ipad+on+th e+skytrain/6442641987/story.html)

Then someone showed up at our Burnaby studios and dropped off $450 in cash - no questions asked. They did not wait around to identify themselves. A short time later they came back with another $50, fearing the original $450 would not be enough.

:tears:

[MindBomber]

It would be appreciated if you could keep your racist comments to yourself.

The offenders being native is only a minor detail of the story of no greater significance than if they were any other race.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20492925.jpg

exactly what i was thinking when i was reading this..

Aboriginal.

[highfive]

Global BC | Woman with cerebral palsy robbed of her iPad on the SkyTrain: People step forward to help (http://www.globaltvbc.com/woman+with+cerebral+palsy+robbed+of+her+ipad+on+th e+skytrain/6442641987/story.html)



:tears:

But she end up getting an ipad from another person though.

Karma is going to be a bitch to those punks.

[GGnoRE]

Gotta stone this f-bags to death

[spyker]

So just exactly where were the overpaid skytrain police during this robbery?

Oh wait,I know,they were too busy writing tickets that will never get paid.

[spyker]

exactly what i was thinking when i was reading this..

So what if the robber was white or asian,would you still be thinking the same thing?

The one thing I learned in life that's the most important is,never judge anyone based on the race alone regardless of the stereotype.

[hotjoint]

Fuckin punks. Atleast she got another ipad.

[RabidRat]

Guys cool it with the aboriginal comments.

[Mr.Money]

so one of those fuck tards punched her in the face?.

i'm more surprised everybody else on the skytrain didn't do a damn thing,seeing someone in a wheel chair get there ipad ripped away & an assault going on to a disabled women.

thats fucked.

[nickmak]

Fucking chugs

[SumAznGuy]

^^^^

Points were already issused to those that made the race comments, no need to add what you just said.

[gdoh]

i like how everybody just watched her get robbed like wtf are people to afraid to come out of the bubble to help??

[Berzerker]

So just exactly where were the overpaid skytrain police during this robbery?

Oh wait,I know,they were too busy writing tickets that will never get paid.

Actually trankslink fines will now be collectible through ICBC and 3rd party resources. Legislation was just implemented giving the Authority to ICBC to not renew insurance or licenses unless all translink fines are paid. They also gave them the Authority to collect up to 10 years in the past on fines issued.

Berz out.

[Graeme S]

Sixty points in total, actually. And now a ban for him.

[SumAznGuy]

whats the point of a security camera if all it does is take grainy fucking pictures?

And these are the "new" cameras too. The older ones from when the skytrains were built were in black and white and much much lower resolution.

Once the new HD cameras are installed, it should be much much better.
And of course they will ask for more money.

[spyker]

Actually trankslink fines will now be collectible through ICBC and 3rd party resources. Legislation was just implemented giving the Authority to ICBC to not renew insurance or licenses unless all translink fines are paid. They also gave them the Authority to collect up to 10 years in the past on fines issued.

Berz out.
That's cool and all they gave ICBC the power to collect the fines,but what good does that do when the majority of the people are broke ass who have been riding the skytrain for the last 10 years who don't have a driver's license or own a car,I doubt they wil be buying a car anytime soon.

There is also a statue of limitations on collections,I think it's like 5 years or some shit,I could be wrong.

[trd2343]

Were there bystanders? If so, why the FUCK did they stand around do fuck all?

In any case, these kids are fucking sad pathetic parasites..


Scared maybe? We don't know what kind of weapon they may have. I'm sure once someone stepped in to try to stop them, everyone would jump in and help. But it takes courage for that first person to step in and stop those thieves.

I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing, just standing and watch.

[CP.AR]

suspect #1(picture in OP's post) looks like the guy that scammed me with 500 dollars worth of fake bills... fake bills that even fooled the officers at the police station until they took a UV light to it

[Mr.HappySilp]

i like how everybody just watched her get robbed like wtf are people to afraid to come out of the bubble to help??

More like veryone standing by is thking someone else will help her.To be honest I don't think I will step in but I will call the police and video tape the incident and give to the police later........ Is just the way how tranist handles things make it so that you don't want to help.


I remember maybe a year ago.... a guide dog guding a person to the skytrain and somehow it got dragged by the skytrain when the door close..... transit never compensate anything for it, so if I get injury don't think transit will compensate as well......

Is easy for us to blame the by standers now.

[Volvoman]

never judge anyone based on the race alone


I agree, but this reminded me of this case I read on News1130 a few weeks ago

No jail time for young man who assaulted bus driver - News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/347957--no-jail-time-for-young-man-who-assaulted-bus-driver)

Walker says she considered Louie's First Nations heritage in sentencing, as higher courts have advised.

If thats the case, if this dickbag ever gets caught, all he'll get is a slap on the wrist.

[JD¹³]

so one of those fuck tards punched her in the face?.

i'm more surprised everybody else on the skytrain didn't do a damn thing,seeing someone in a wheel chair get there ipad ripped away & an assault going on to a disabled women.

thats fucked.
Classic apathy from a pathetic comatose generation. "We must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men."

Some day I hope a punk bitch pulls something like this when I'm around.

[Pooface55]

I read on Yahoo a 60 year old man was seen chasing the guys.

[dinosaur]

Global has reported (on their fb):

"One of the thieves who stole an iPad from wheelchair-bound woman with celebral palsy has been arrested. Police have good lead on suspect #2"



Unfortunately, I am waiting for the report that he has been released from custody....and given probation.

[unit]

whats the point of a security camera if all it does is take grainy fucking pictures?

in broad daylight no less

[gdoh]

Global has reported (on their fb):

"One of the thieves who stole an iPad from wheelchair-bound woman with celebral palsy has been arrested. Police have good lead on suspect #2"



Unfortunately, I am waiting for the report that he has been released from custody....and given probation.

slap on the wrist and told with a stern look not to do it again

[Berzerker]

That's cool and all they gave ICBC the power to collect the fines,but what good does that do when the majority of the people are broke ass who have been riding the skytrain for the last 10 years who don't have a driver's license or own a car,I doubt they wil be buying a car anytime soon.

There is also a statue of limitations on collections,I think it's like 5 years or some shit,I could be wrong.

Majority of people in this province do in fact need a Drivers License or some form of ID. You won't be able to renew your ID or License (also could garnish wages given the new legislation). The statue of Limitations on debt collections is 7 years but that is from the date the Agency takes on the debt not the time at which the debt occurred.

Berz out.

[Pooface55]

Global has reported (on their fb):

"One of the thieves who stole an iPad from wheelchair-bound woman with celebral palsy has been arrested. Police have good lead on suspect #2"



Unfortunately, I am waiting for the report that he has been released from custody....and given probation.

I wish someone would give him a Duncan Keith style elbow.

[AzNightmare]

Sad that will probably just get a slap on the wrist.
It sucks that bystanders just stood and watched.

Some people just don't want to get involved with something
that would put themselves in any sorry of risk.

And of course if you got inured while fighting the thieves,
Translink wouldn't compensate... It has nothing to do with them.

[shawnly1000]

"- One of two men accused of attacking a disabled woman on SkyTrain and running off with her tablet computer has been arrested.

Transit police say they hope to arrest the second suspect later today."

Arrest made in attack on disabled woman on SkyTrain - News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/363302--arrest-made-in-attack-on-disabled-woman-on-skytrain)

[FatalCloud]

I wish someone would give him a Metta World Peace style elbow.

fixed

[spyker]

Majority of people in this province do in fact need a Drivers License or some form of ID. You won't be able to renew your ID or License (also could garnish wages given the new legislation). The statue of Limitations on debt collections is 7 years but that is from the date the Agency takes on the debt not the time at which the debt occurred.

Berz out.

We'll just have to wait and see how this new law pans out.

You and I and alot of people already know how difficult it is to get money out of people nowadays.

[spyker]

I agree, but this reminded me of this case I read on News1130 a few weeks ago

No jail time for young man who assaulted bus driver - News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/347957--no-jail-time-for-young-man-who-assaulted-bus-driver)



If thats the case, if this dickbag ever gets caught, all he'll get is a slap on the wrist.
If this is his first offense,then yes he will get a slap on the wrist,regardless of what race he is.

However there is no promise that he won't get his head smashed in by someone that recognizes him on the streets.

[spyker]

Some day I hope a punk bitch pulls something like this when I'm around.

I few years ago I almost stabbed some mainlander for beating on his girlfiend late at night in Stationsquare,the fucked up thing was people saw it happening but just kepted walking by and not doing anything about it.

[MindBomber]

I agree, but this reminded me of this case I read on News1130 a few weeks ago

No jail time for young man who assaulted bus driver - News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/347957--no-jail-time-for-young-man-who-assaulted-bus-driver)

If thats the case, if this dickbag ever gets caught, all he'll get is a slap on the wrist.

I find it unfortunate that aboriginal status is taken into consideration at sentencing. I understand the reasoning that a disadvantaged background may have contributed to the offenders actions and therefore they should be entitled to a lesser punishment, but the judicial system should not be focused on punishing people, but rather reforming them. Allowing someone who has been convicted of a crime to walk free will do nothing to reform them. In the long run, this type of affirmative action hurts the First Nations community.

[bcrdukes]

Some good news: Somebody out of kindness has replaced the iPad for her. (I think I read it on news1130.com)

[SumAznGuy]

I find it unfortunate that aboriginal status is taken into consideration at sentencing.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. The kid who's family died in the appartment fire had a criminal record prior to the fire and has been caught numerous since. Each time he goes to court, he uses his get out of jail free card because he was the lone survivor when his GF and family died in the fire.

We'll just have to wait and see how this new law pans out.

You and I and alot of people already know how difficult it is to get money out of people nowadays.

Supposedly, they can also apply to the courts to have them banned from going on to the fare paid zones so if they are caught in the future, the police should have more power.

[i-VTEC]

"A man reacting to the story last night phoned, offering to replace it. The pair met up at the Apple Store, where he presented her with a new iPad."

Arrest made in attack on disabled woman on SkyTrain - News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/363302--arrest-made-in-attack-on-disabled-woman-on-skytrain)

[platinum300]

Edit: Racist content.


Damn chugs, all they do is steal, have babies, go on welfare and get drunk. So pathetic. Just because they are chugs it should not be an excuse for them to have a lighter punishment. They are responsible for their own actions.

[spyker]

Damn chugs, all they do is steal, have babies, go on welfare and get drunk. So pathetic. Just because they are chugs it should not be an excuse for them to have a lighter punishment. They are responsible for their own actions.

I take it you did not read the warning from the mods about racial slurs on this thread did you.

[sonick]

Damn chugs, all they do is steal, have babies, go on welfare and get drunk. So pathetic. Just because they are chugs it should not be an excuse for them to have a lighter punishment. They are responsible for their own actions.

lol you dumb bastard.

[kwy]

I'm happy that someone replaced her iPad, helps restore a little faith in humanity.

If I were a bystander in that position, I really hope I would be able to step up and help out the victim..the feeling of guilt from not doing anything would bug the hell out of me.

[Eastwood]

I take it you did not read the warning from the mods about racial slurs on this thread did you.
Please no with the policing. Sometimes its good to hear people say it like it is. Forums shouldn't be any different than how people speak within their privacy.

[MindBomber]

Damn chugs, all they do is steal, have babies, go on welfare and get drunk. So pathetic. Just because they are chugs it should not be an excuse for them to have a lighter punishment. They are responsible for their own actions.

Threads involving First Nations people have the inate ability to bring out the most ignorant and racist members of RS.

[spyker]

Please no with the policing. Sometimes its good to hear people say it like it is. Forums shouldn't be any different than how people speak within their privacy.

I'm not policing anything,I'm just sick of hearing racial slurs and shit,can't we just have a decent discussion without someone bringing in the race card.

This is a private forum with it's own set of rules,not a public street corner where you would hang out with the friends and shoot the shit.

[optiblue]

glad to see one of them caught. The day will come when we'll need life recorders on top of our accident recorders in our cars :( The sad part is that once all those towers go up near metrotown, crime rate is bound to increase

[MindBomber]

Please no with the policing. Sometimes its good to hear people say it like it is. Forums shouldn't be any different than how people speak within their privacy.

I'll say it like it is.

My heritage is First Nations.

I have never stolen something in my life;
I have yet to make any babies;
I haven't enjoyed enough alcohol to actually be drunk in years;
I took a break from work and am living off savings while attending school, therefore I qualify for welfare but have not applied for it and have no intentions to.

Racism is not grounded in logic, it's just twisted ideas perpetuated by simple minded people.

[spideyv2]

What a bunch of low life phaggots

[kwy]

I'm not policing anything,I'm just sick of hearing racial slurs and shit,can't we just have a decent discussion without someone bringing in the race card.

This is a private forum with it's own set of rules,not a public street corner where you would hang out with the friends and shoot the shit.

It's not private at all. I agree with the rest of what you said though.

[godwin]

Good for you as an individual.. however the fact is based on statistics.. first nations population is disproportionately represented in the prison population (http://www.prisonjustice.ca/politics/facts_stats.html). Another one from GofC (http://www.oci-bec.gc.ca/rpt/annrpt/annrpt20052006info-eng.aspx).

I'll say it like it is.

My heritage is First Nations.

I have never stolen something in my life;
I have yet to make any babies;
I haven't enjoyed enough alcohol to actually be drunk in years;
I took a break from work and am living off savings while attending school, therefore I qualify for welfare but have not applied for it and have no intentions to.

Racism is not grounded in logic, it's just twisted ideas perpetuated by simple minded people.

[GLOW]

Threads involving First Nations people have the inate ability to bring out the most ignorant and racist members of RS.

i dont think it's limited to first nations. i've seen numerous threads from gang related activity to driving, where the actions are from east indians, asians, and white people and you hear all the stereotypical comments come out.

[StylinRed]

I saw this on the news made my blood boil it was great to see those standing by try and chase the thieves down even a senior was after them

Was trying to get into contact with someone so that I could get this girl a new ipad and was told that many have done the same already good to see and hear people stepping up to help.


As for the remarks about the ethnicity of the thieves it's really very stupid and telling of the ignorance of those posters; even if you want to point out like godwin above me about aboriginals within prison populations the situation isn't that simple... you can't simply look at the end result and paint an entire picture there are years of issues, disenfranchisement, etc which has resulted in their current state and no one is addressing it they're simply harping upon the results and that doesn't solve anything.

[spyker]

It's not private at all. I agree with the rest of what you said though.

RS is not a publicly owned website,it's owned by a few people and therefore it's a private site.

[mmmk]

So far, one of them has been arrested:
Suspect arrested in SkyTrain iPad robbery - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/16/bc-skytrain-ipad-theft.html)

[MindBomber]

Good for you as an individual.. however the fact is based on statistics.. first nations population is disproportionately represented in the prison population (http://www.prisonjustice.ca/politics/facts_stats.html). Another one from GofC (http://www.oci-bec.gc.ca/rpt/annrpt/annrpt20052006info-eng.aspx).

As stated by StylinRed, you cannot simply read the current statistics without recognizing the centuries of policies that produced the unfortunate state the First Nations community now finds itself in. No one is fighting harder to improve the state of First Nations communities than the people themselves, but healing an entire community cannot occur overnight.

The statistics and facts behind them aside, you're helping to defend a blanket statement that repeatedly refers to First nations people using a racial slur, and makes outrageous racist claims. I'm not sure what would motivate you to do something so foolish, other than you possessing underlying racist views yourself.

i dont think it's limited to first nations. i've seen numerous threads from gang related activity to driving, where the actions are from east indians, asians, and white people and you hear all the stereotypical comments come out.

Truth, it's saddening. If only people would learn to judge individuals based solely on their actions, the world would be a better place.

[kwy]

RS is not a publicly owned website,it's owned by a few people and therefore it's a private site.

Anyone can sign up for it. Anything and everything you post on the internet is NOT private. Never assume that it is.

[JSALES]

Wow! What fucking assholes for taking advantage of someone like that. I hope they get what's coming to them.

[1exotic]

lol'd at platinum300's comment

[Graeme S]

So I think we need to clear up a couple points:

The forum is publicly viewable; the site is google indexed, and you don't need an account to lurk. That having been said, posting on this forum is subject to the terms and conditions that you agreed to when you signed up for the forum; some of those conditions are rules of conduct: things you should and should not do when posting on this site.

You are absolutely welcome to say whatever the hell you want; we (as mods) are also just as welcome to edit, modify, delete or give "infractions" (commonly known as points) for individual posts which do not adhere to what we might loosely call the "standard of conduct" that is expected on this site. We (as mods) are also welcome to ban members, both temporarily and permanently, whose conduct does not fit with the atmosphere we want to create in this community.

To those who are currently stereotyping all people based on their (dis)proportional representation of a certain population, I would recommend that you remember that all people are individuals, both yourself and they. It is precisely this attitude which has resulted in many people (both Aboriginal and non) turning to crime as either a first or a last resort in order to support themselves. The more you discriminate based on these factors, the more likely it is that you will one day discriminate against someone who does not fall into the subset you are targetting; and at some point they may end up being pushed away simply because of the way that they have been treated. A self-fulfilling prophecy, if you will.


For the record, in this thread a total of 72 points have been given out, as well as a total of 90 days worth of bans (60 of those points and all 90 days of bans were done by me). I have little tolerance for bullshit. For those people who continue to profess the "right" to spew their self-righteous racist bullshit, I welcome you to start your own local site on which to do it, or feel free to find one of the many anti-[insert-race-here] boards that undoubtedly exist somewhere in the cesspools of the dregs of the interwebs.


I would really rather not have RevScene full of the same content which could easily be found on Stormfront. To those of you who would, the logout button is to the right and up at the top.


Good day to you all.

[StylinRed]

for those speaking about the reaction of bystanders

a senior was actually seen in the security footage trying to chase the two down but he didn't seem that able bodied himself

and according to the news there were 2 other passengers that gave chase after attending to the victim

[godwin]

I think this is an important conversation to have on Revscene, since the majority of the population are immigrants or immediate parents are immigrants.

So what you are saying that the facts and the statistics are not true? that's why you set them aside?

How would you frame this incident along with ones like Del Louie (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/del-louie-gets-conditional-sentence-bus-driver-assault-002506883.html), Darnell Pratt (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/296265--darnell-pratt-missing-skips-parole)? into something that everyone can can understand, especially race was deemed a factor on the leniency of the sentencing of the later 2 cases?

Now would you agree If only people would learn to judge individuals based solely on their actions, the world would be a better place. The judges would have thrown the book at them if not the first time? at least 2nd time for skipping parole?

As stated by StylinRed, you cannot simply read the current statistics without recognizing the centuries of policies that produced the unfortunate state the First Nations community now finds itself in. No one is fighting harder to improve the state of First Nations communities than the people themselves, but healing an entire community cannot occur overnight.

The statistics and facts behind them aside, you're helping to defend a blanket statement that repeatedly refers to First nations people using a racial slur, and makes outrageous racist claims. I'm not sure what would motivate you to do something so foolish, other than you possessing underlying racist views yourself.



Truth, it's saddening. If only people would learn to judge individuals based solely on their actions, the world would be a better place.

[MindBomber]

I think this is an important conversation to have on Revscene, since the majority of the population are immigrants or immediate parents are immigrants.

So what you are saying that the facts and the statistics are not true? that's why you set them aside?

How would you frame this incident along with ones like Del Louie (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/del-louie-gets-conditional-sentence-bus-driver-assault-002506883.html), Darnell Pratt (http://www.news1130.com/news/local/article/296265--darnell-pratt-missing-skips-parole)? into something that non First Nations people can understand, especially race was deemed a factor on the leniency of the sentencing of the later 2 cases?

Those with racist views frequently express the idea that all First Nations people are alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, live on welfare and are generally unproductive scum. You've chosen to defend those statements using the statistical fact that First Nations people are disproportionately incarcerated, a fact which I have made no attempt to dispute or set aside despite your assertions. The majority of First Nations people are productive, contributing members of society; the statistics do not support the greatly exaggerated sentiments held by racists which you have come to the defense of, but merely that the First Nations community has standing issues within it. Furthermore, as stated clearly in my prior post, the First Nations community is actively engaged in healing itself. For more than a century attending residential schools was mandatory, the last residential school did not close till 1996. Residential schools, among other examples of racist policies, severely injured the First Nations community and led to it's current state. The damage was not done overnight and it will not be undone overnight, but significant progress is being made.

I posted my views on lenient sentences earlier in this thread, please refer to that post.

[godwin]

Okay how would you recommend to promote / induce reformation in a system that is not built on reform? while those who undergo incarceration, blatantly flaunt the system? What is the First Nation is doing in regards to that, and more importantly what the rest of the society could do actively besides saying it is a good idea? Remember the current majority gov is building more prisons while our crime rate is actually down. Yes I understand the trauma and the healing will take eons, I sense there is no clear directive or indication where steps either individually or as a collective, citizens and society can do?

The problem I have with your previous quote: "You've chosen to defend those statements using the statistical fact that First Nations people are disproportionately incarcerated, a fact which I have made no attempt to dispute or set aside despite your assertions". is in your post you did say "The statistics and facts behind them aside"

The problem I have is I didn't express "Those with racist views frequently express the idea that all First Nations people are alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, live on welfare and are generally unproductive scum.", you said that. It would be beneficial if you can help us to bridge the dichotomy?


I find it unfortunate that aboriginal status is taken into consideration at sentencing. I understand the reasoning that a disadvantaged background may have contributed to the offenders actions and therefore they should be entitled to a lesser punishment, but the judicial system should not be focused on punishing people, but rather reforming them. Allowing someone who has been convicted of a crime to walk free will do nothing to reform them. In the long run, this type of affirmative action hurts the First Nations community.

I posted my views on lenient sentences earlier in this thread, please refer to that post.

[MindBomber]

Okay how would you recommend to promote / induce reformation in a system that is not built on reform? while those who undergo incarceration, blatantly flaunt the system? What is the First Nation is doing in regards to that, and more importantly what the rest of the society could do actively besides saying it is a good idea? Remember the current majority gov is building more prisons while our crime rate is actually down.


In my opinion, the prison system is torn between two purposes and achieves little as a result. On one side, the prison system is designed to punish offenders through exerting misery; on the other side, the prison system attempts to reform offenders and steer them on a new path. Offenders actively engaged in a criminal career accept and expect the intermittent misery of prison, and thus it is ineffective against dissuading them from committing crimes upon release. An approach purely designed to reform offenders by giving them the desire to not offend again would be more effective. A successful reform progress would work to identify what specifically motivated the offender to commit crime, and redirect the motivation towards something more productive. For example, if the offender was convicted of petty crimes committed to fuel a drug/alcohol addiction then outreach programs post-release to help the person maintain sobriety would be beneficial. I choose the petty crimes to fuel a drug/alcohol addictions example, because that's why many First Nations people are incarcerated. Almost every First Nations community is actively engaged in combating drug and alcohol addiction, since it is recognized as the most pervasive cause of the problems. Many reserves are dry and have very active community outreach programs to combat addiction and break the cycle that has been passed down through generations now, lowering addiction rates will lower crime rates.

As a society, I would like the entire prison system to shift it's focus towards reformation over punishment. What I would like society to do specifically in regards to the First Nations community, would be to drop the racist stereotypes that all natives are untrustworthy, alcoholics, or welfare dependents and to judge an individual based on their actions alone. Those attitudes do nothing but hurt a clean, hard working, First Nations person.



The problem I have with your previous quote: "You've chosen to defend those statements using the statistical fact that First Nations people are disproportionately incarcerated, a fact which I have made no attempt to dispute or set aside despite your assertions". is in your post you did say "The statistics and facts behind them aside"


I set the statistics aside only after recognizing the unfortunate state the First Nations community currently finds itself in, I do not dispute them. I set the accurate statistics aside to address the fact you (or it appeared to me as if you intended to) chose to defend the racist and frankly ridiculous post made by platinum300.


The problem I have is I didn't express "Those with racist views frequently express the idea that all First Nations people are alcoholics, drug addicts, criminals, live on welfare and are generally unproductive scum.", you said that. It would be beneficial if you can help us to bridge the dichotomy?

Refer to above. You appeared to be offering support for the statements made by platinum300 in your initial post. If you were not, you have my sincere apologies.

[Shorn]

So I think we need to clear up a couple points:
...

:okay: got it. in retrospect that was a dumb comment for me to make and i apologize for it.

i just wanted to say - this thread DID get me thinking more about this issue and i've been learning lots from mindbomber and godwin's debate, so i can have a more informed opinion.

[godwin]

One question I would like to pose in regards to justice system: I believe that restorative justice is rooted in the First Nation culture. It is often presented as a possible model that would satisfy some of your concerns. Why different First Nation bands cannot seem to join together and create a centralized model that adheres to the same standards, so that it can be easier for the public at large to understand and hopefully accept? (besides the obvious politics) When I looked it up, it seems that different First Nations bands are do their own things at different paces. I know there are a lot of pride and uniqueness involved, however in the big picture, I think getting everyone on board and have confidence quickly should be the utmost concern.

I know of several pastors who go out to engage the First Nations community in East Van. I understand the reluctance on the First Nation's part to engage them due to the Residential School history. However I also notice as a community, the First Nations doesn't seem to reach out to the booming immigrant population. Are there any particular reason of this disengagement? That is, why they don't go out tell their story, actively engage and hopefully to extinguish the said bad stereotypes? Knowing how insular and disoriented a lot of new immigrants are, I think it might be a good idea to partner with groups like SUCCESS etc to spread the message.

There is no need for apologies. I think it is a very important and often neglected topic here, especially on a message board that is based in Vancouver and such young demographic. I think if you want the changes you want, it is probably good to start with this message board (at least locally) and I think it is important to engage, talk about things to create understanding; instead of just sweeping things under the rug.

In my opinion, the prison system is torn between two purposes and achieves little as a result. On one side, the prison system is designed to punish offenders through exerting misery; on the other side, the prison system attempts to reform offenders and steer them on a new path. Offenders actively engaged in a criminal career accept and expect the intermittent misery of prison, and thus it is ineffective against dissuading them from committing crimes upon release. An approach purely designed to reform offenders by giving them the desire to not offend again would be more effective. A successful reform progress would work to identify what specifically motivated the offender to commit crime, and redirect the motivation towards something more productive. For example, if the offender was convicted of petty crimes committed to fuel a drug/alcohol addiction then outreach programs post-release to help the person maintain sobriety would be beneficial. I choose the petty crimes to fuel a drug/alcohol addictions example, because that's why many First Nations people are incarcerated. Almost every First Nations community is actively engaged in combating drug and alcohol addiction, since it is recognized as the most pervasive cause of the problems. Many reserves are dry and have very active community outreach programs to combat addiction and break the cycle that has been passed down through generations now, lowering addiction rates will lower crime rates.

As a society, I would like the entire prison system to shift it's focus towards reformation over punishment. What I would like society to do specifically in regards to the First Nations community, would be to drop the racist stereotypes that all natives are untrustworthy, alcoholics, or welfare dependents and to judge an individual based on their actions alone. Those attitudes do nothing but hurt a clean, hard working, First Nations person.




I set the statistics aside only after recognizing the unfortunate state the First Nations community currently finds itself in, I do not dispute them. I set the accurate statistics aside to address the fact you (or it appeared to me as if you intended to) chose to defend the racist and frankly ridiculous post made by platinum300.



Refer to above. You appeared to be offering support for the statements made by platinum300 in your initial post. If you were not, you have my sincere apologies.

[Psykopathik]

IMO the second you decide taking drugs might be a good idea, you are immediately responsible for any actions you take thereafter, Drug induced or not.

Cocaine fueled shooting rampage? your fault.

Paranoid murder spree brought on by brain damage from crystal meth? still your fucking fault.

these people need to die.

[kwy]

There's more to it than that. A lot of people don't just start doing hard drugs "for fun."

[ilovebacon]

Fuck ettt, he already got caught! Just waiting for his buddy to be found soon too.

[Psykopathik]

There's more to it than that. A lot of people don't just start doing hard drugs "for fun."

like when people go to the bar for quick drink which turns into a bender before they drive home.

they consciously decide to take a stimulant which may alter your decision making skills.

fun doesn't absolve you of responsibility.

yes, i'm no fun at parties. I've seen too many people/friends destroyed my substance abuse.

[Gh0stRider]

that girl is here at the bus stop, not using ipad in public

[MindBomber]

One question I would like to pose in regards to justice system: I believe that restorative justice is rooted in the First Nation culture. It is often presented as a possible model that would satisfy some of your concerns. Why different First Nation bands cannot seem to join together and create a centralized model that adheres to the same standards, so that it can be easier for the public at large to understand and hopefully accept? (besides the obvious politics) When I looked it up, it seems that different First Nations bands are do their own things at different paces. I know there are a lot of pride and uniqueness involved, however in the big picture, I think getting everyone on board and have confidence quickly should be the utmost concern.

Enacting a standardized system of restorative justice is a worthwhile, but exceedingly difficult proposal. For such a system to be effective, a balance would need to be achieved between the traditional values of individual First Nation cultures and the contemporary European judicial system. The Maori people of New Zealand have established such an approach, which I believe is considered moderately successful. The Maori system allows the community to practice traditional justice through making recommendations on appropriate sentences to the contemporary judicial system, which takes those recommendations into account and delivers sentences accordingly. I believe the system could easily be adapted to Canada by allowing individual bands to make recommendations to the judicial system on sentencing that would look to include traditional approaches to healing. Putting in place such a system would encourage all bands to begin practicing traditional of justice more actively, while not necessarily encountering the obstacle of attempting to blend highly differing views, as one might expect would occur in a highly standardized model.

Why has such a system not already been put into place?
I cannot give an exacting answer, but I can give my opinion. It's difficult to come to an agreed upon approach and set it as a priority, because of the very immediate problems that occupy some band leaders. It's even more difficult to have the government agree to establishing what could be considered a radical new approach, especially with the current majority governments views on criminal justice.


I know of several pastors who go out to engage the First Nations community in East Van. I understand the reluctance on the First Nation's part to engage them due to the Residential School history. However I also notice as a community, the First Nations doesn't seem to reach out to the booming immigrant population. Are there any particular reason of this disengagement? That is, why they don't go out tell their story, actively engage and hopefully to extinguish the said bad stereotypes? Knowing how insular and disoriented a lot of new immigrants are, I think it might be a good idea to partner with groups like SUCCESS etc to spread the message.

There is no need for apologies. I think it is a very important and often neglected topic here, especially on a message board that is based in Vancouver and such young demographic. I think if you want the changes you want, it is probably good to start with this message board (at least locally) and I think it is important to engage, talk about things to create understanding; instead of just sweeping things under the rug.

I intend to respond this portion of your post as well, but I'm off to class now so I'll need to do so a bit later.

[El Bastardo]

I know someone who works in the Ministry of Justice and she tells me that a lot of the Natives comment on how they think Restorative Justice is a wank.


Without commenting on Native cultural issues, I can assure you that if a non-Native commits an offense on sovereign land they won't receive the "Restorative Justice" treatment (happened to a relative of a friend of mine) so I don't see why Restorative Justice is the go-to for courts when a Native commits a crime on non-sovereign land.

It sends a message that there is a two-tiered justice system in Canada. One for Natives that allows them impunity if they demonstrate "real regret", and one for the rest of us.


Before Dr. Who jumps on me for being a "racist", I'm not attacking anyone's ethnicity or culture, but instead offering my opinion on how the justice system treats some offenders. I'm not racist, but I believe equality should apply to us all

[Drow]

i understand it is unfair and simple minded to judge a group of people by an individual's actions.

but just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line?

if 100 aliens came to earth tomorrow, and they ALL started littering, is it okay to say... " those damn aliens, always littering "

if 100 aliens came to earth tomorrow, and all but one started littering, is it then rude and simple-minded to say " those damn aliens, always littering ", and you'd have to say " wow those "dudes" are always littering "

[Shorn]

I know someone who works in the Ministry of Justice and she tells me that a lot of the Natives comment on how they think Restorative Justice is a wank.


Without commenting on Native cultural issues, I can assure you that if a non-Native commits an offense on sovereign land they won't receive the "Restorative Justice" treatment (happened to a relative of a friend of mine) so I don't see why Restorative Justice is the go-to for courts when a Native commits a crime on non-sovereign land.

It sends a message that there is a two-tiered justice system in Canada. One for Natives that allows them impunity if they demonstrate "real regret", and one for the rest of us.


Before Dr. Who jumps on me for being a "racist", I'm not attacking anyone's ethnicity or culture, but instead offering my opinion on how the justice system treats some offenders. I'm not racist, but I believe equality should apply to us all

i understand it is unfair and simple minded to judge a group of people by an individual's actions.

but just out of curiosity, where do you draw the line?

if 100 aliens came to earth tomorrow, and they ALL started littering, is it okay to say... " those damn aliens, always littering "

if 100 aliens came to earth tomorrow, and all but one started littering, is it then rude and simple-minded to say " those damn aliens, always littering ", and you'd have to say " wow those "dudes" are always littering "

some food for thought - not really related to this but you can draw a similar comparison:

say a city is hiring firefighters. say there are 2 resumes on the table of the hiring manager. one guy is white, the other is black. because of political pressure for racial equality, the manager decides to hire the black man simply because of his skin color, though his resume and physical fitness is inferior to the white applicant. so it's a question of which is more important: the best man for the job, or the best mix of colors on the workforce.

of course thats not the topic here but i'm sure it's easy to draw some parallels from this example.. as in the justice system should be fair to EVERYBODY regardless of race. judge equally.

[Drow]

and @mindbomber

i know whenever there's a discussion about native people, a lot of RS' ugly sides turn up. I observed that each time you sorta take a slap to the face, and then feel the need to educate others about your race and to educate the simple minded.

Now, i'm not trying to tell you not to stick up for your own people but... don't you think sometimes its in your own best interest to just ignore it? you and I and pretty much a big majority of vancouver acknowledge that there exists some form of racial discrimination against the first natives. It's hard for people to not develop these assumptions that native people in general participate in the aforementioned activities.

I would bet that you've probably explained to other people, including those outside of RS, of how it is wrong to generalize first natives as the negative connotations that people perceive. And i would bet that you've probably been really fustrated over it as well. But i do hope you understand that no matter how many times you lecture people, or try to correct them, people will always be people. People will STILL generalize. You'd have to understand that the world isn't fair, and some people receive the shorter end of the stick while others benefit. Especially in this city, it is RARE, to encounter natives as intelligent as you are. Even for me ... you are probably the first Native person i've seen put together a well constructed argument, and i've seen a lot of natives in vancouver.

My point is... you might be wasting your time trying to educate people. This is a problem that probably won't be fixed in our lifetime.

[MindBomber]

and @mindbomber

i know whenever there's a discussion about native people, a lot of RS' ugly sides turn up. I observed that each time you sorta take a slap to the face, and then feel the need to educate others about your race and to educate the simple minded.

Now, i'm not trying to tell you not to stick up for your own people but... don't you think sometimes its in your own best interest to just ignore it? you and I and pretty much a big majority of vancouver acknowledge that there exists some form of racial discrimination against the first natives. It's hard for people to not develop these assumptions that native people in general participate in the aforementioned activities.

I would bet that you've probably explained to other people, including those outside of RS, of how it is wrong to generalize first natives as the negative connotations that people perceive. And i would bet that you've probably been really fustrated over it as well. But i do hope you understand that no matter how many times you lecture people, or try to correct them, people will always be people. People will STILL generalize. You'd have to understand that the world isn't fair, and some people receive the shorter end of the stick while others benefit. Especially in this city, it is RARE, to encounter natives as intelligent as you are. Even for me ... you are probably the first Native person i've seen put together a well constructed argument, and i've seen a lot of natives in vancouver.

My point is... you might be wasting your time trying to educate people. This is a problem that probably won't be fixed in our lifetime.

Certain people, I understand will forever be blinded by prejudice, and I do not take the time to put forward any more than a brief response directed towards them. In those circumstances, yes, I am ultimately wasting my time by offering any response. In the moment, it feels good, but perhaps you're right and it would be best to not dignify the blatant racism or ignorance with any response.

There are times where I believe there is something to be gained from a constructed response, such as my currently ongoing discussion with Godwin; those conversations I actually put time towards and enjoy. In those discussions, I feel like as if very real progress is being made. The progress may be but a drop in an ocean, but it's slight degree does not negate the positive result.

I know lots of native people who are more than capable of putting together an argument equal or superior to mine. Including other members of RS who are First Nations :)

[Gridlock]

and @mindbomber

i know whenever there's a discussion about native people, a lot of RS' ugly sides turn up. I observed that each time you sorta take a slap to the face, and then feel the need to educate others about your race and to educate the simple minded.

Now, i'm not trying to tell you not to stick up for your own people but... don't you think sometimes its in your own best interest to just ignore it? you and I and pretty much a big majority of vancouver acknowledge that there exists some form of racial discrimination against the first natives. It's hard for people to not develop these assumptions that native people in general participate in the aforementioned activities.

I would bet that you've probably explained to other people, including those outside of RS, of how it is wrong to generalize first natives as the negative connotations that people perceive. And i would bet that you've probably been really fustrated over it as well. But i do hope you understand that no matter how many times you lecture people, or try to correct them, people will always be people. People will STILL generalize. You'd have to understand that the world isn't fair, and some people receive the shorter end of the stick while others benefit. Especially in this city, it is RARE, to encounter natives as intelligent as you are. Even for me ... you are probably the first Native person i've seen put together a well constructed argument, and i've seen a lot of natives in vancouver.

My point is... you might be wasting your time trying to educate people. This is a problem that probably won't be fixed in our lifetime.

So shut up, grab some ankle and take it?

You know what? I can look at posts, or comments or someone saying the word chug in a sentence, and write him off as a douche, ban his ass and move on.

But do you know how goddamned offensive your post is to people?

"Especially in this city, it is RARE, to encounter natives as intelligent as you are. Even for me ... you are probably the first Native person i've seen put together a well constructed argument, and i've seen a lot of natives in vancouver. "

Re-word: "dude, you are the smartest one of your kind I've met, and I've met a lot of dumb examples of your people"

What's he supposed to say to that? Gee, thanks?

You thought that out. You wrote it intentionally. And don't you dare try to backpeddle your way out of it. You meant what you said.

Let's take a look through history. See how your comments stack up.

Gee Mr. black man...I know being a slave is a drag, but you are so fucking good at picking cotton. I wish you'd stop your complaining-it ain't ever going to change.

Gee Miss, I know being stuck in the kitchen sucks, and no one gives a fuck what you have to say, but women can't handle the vote! And I wish you'd stop complaining-it ain't ever going to change.

Goddamn it! Mindbomber or anyone else has a right to come on a forum such as this and not have his people insulted.

You get the most incredible fail I have ever given.

[duy-]

this is getting off topic and down hill but anyways that picture really is garbage, i dont get how some 12 year old girl can take a pic in HD but security cameras suck worst than my nokia 6300. take some money out of the tickets and upgrade the damn cameras, they cant be that god damn expensive, kids have better cameras in their pockets /end rant

[CorneringArtist]

this is getting off topic and down hill but anyways that picture really is garbage, i dont get how some 12 year old girl can take a pic in HD but security cameras suck worst than my nokia 6300. take some money out of the tickets and upgrade the damn cameras, they cant be that god damn expensive, kids have better cameras in their pockets /end rant

That money intended for camera upgrades, among other things, went straight into the bonus coffers of those do-nothing Translink executives, yet they still have the stones to demand more money for "transit improvements".

[Drow]

So shut up, grab some ankle and take it?

You know what? I can look at posts, or comments or someone saying the word chug in a sentence, and write him off as a douche, ban his ass and move on.

But do you know how goddamned offensive your post is to people?

"Especially in this city, it is RARE, to encounter natives as intelligent as you are. Even for me ... you are probably the first Native person i've seen put together a well constructed argument, and i've seen a lot of natives in vancouver. "

Re-word: "dude, you are the smartest one of your kind I've met, and I've met a lot of dumb examples of your people"

What's he supposed to say to that? Gee, thanks?

You thought that out. You wrote it intentionally. And don't you dare try to backpeddle your way out of it. You meant what you said.

Let's take a look through history. See how your comments stack up.

Gee Mr. black man...I know being a slave is a drag, but you are so fucking good at picking cotton. I wish you'd stop your complaining-it ain't ever going to change.

Gee Miss, I know being stuck in the kitchen sucks, and no one gives a fuck what you have to say, but women can't handle the vote! And I wish you'd stop complaining-it ain't ever going to change.

Goddamn it! Mindbomber or anyone else has a right to come on a forum such as this and not have his people insulted.

You get the most incredible fail I have ever given.

i meant no disrespect, im being realistic. i am 21, and mindbomber is the most intelligent first native ive come across. call me sheltered, but i am speaking from my own experience.

edit : i read this post again and realized how upset you were about my post. i felt kinda bad at first, but then i understand now that youre actually mad at reality. yah, im not gonna backpeddle what i said because you know what? if at the back of my mind i recall these experiences but i "back peddle" when i discuss this with other people, whats the point of discussion? this is a forum after all, and they are created to bring about discussion about various topics. you hate the fact that ive not met other first nations ppl like mindbomber? its one thing to be respectful, and its another to be pratical when we're discussing. i do not condone using racial slurs because it truly is discriminatory.

i tell mindbomber that its in his own best interest to not pursue educating others because i dont think hes using his time well. im not looking down on his efforts, im looking down on how well ppl will absorb the material. people generalize. its normal to generalize, but at the same time the norm is wrong. i dont believe this stigma will last indefinitely, i just know for the time being, the stigma will stick.

people who will agree with me are the ones that see the world as it is. people who dont, such as yourself, are the ones who try to see the world in a better light. the ones who that thinks everyone should be treated fairly, who think nobody should be receiving the shorter end of the stick. truth is, the world is not anywhere close to that. i support the first nations in ridding themselves of their negative image, there is nothing wrong with that. martin luther king himself needed the support and determination of his people in order to fight for their rights. in our case, if mindbomber wants society to think otherwise, there needs to be a collective effort from his people in order to make his "educations" to not go to waste.

[dinosaur]

My point is... you might be wasting your time trying to educate people. This is a problem that probably won't be fixed in our lifetime.

those who do not stand up and "educate" others on their misguided thoughts (no matter how many times they have to say it) such as yours, are no better than those who spew it out.

it is no different that standing by and watching a person have their iPad stolen and not helping in any way.

silence and inaction breeds acceptance.

[materials]

i meant no disrespect, im being realistic. i am 21, and mindbomber is the most intelligent first native ive come across. call me sheltered, but i am speaking from my own experience.

First NATIONS. Nations. I don't think he's the first Native.

[Doubledown1]

Fucking chugs
Ban the FAGGOT "preeeluuuude" too for thanking the comment. Moron.
I couldn't find a better word to use for the bitch. Btw, i'm not Indian, just a person who see's good in every race.

[Meowjin]

all of rs must have grown up at van tech or something

[Bonjour]

I don't see why ignorant and racist/stereotypical comments towards Aboriginals get so much attention when there are plenty of other posts about other cultures and people that get looked passed without a thought. :seriously:

Not saying its okay but its kinda inconsistent..

[Over9K]

I don't see why ignorant and racist/stereotypical comments towards Aboriginals get so much attention when there are plenty of other posts about other cultures and people that get looked passed without a thought. :seriously:

Not saying its okay but its kinda inconsistent..

Go live in Alberta and Saskatchewan for a few months.

I guarantee that you will despise them when you come back. Used to live in the Prairies way back, these people can't even hold on to a 50 dollar bill, just gets blown on alcohol, and then they go stealing wheels and cigarettes.

I vote for Gleichen, Alberta.

[GLOW]

Ban the FAGGOT "preeeluuuude" too for thanking the comment. Moron.
I couldn't find a better word to use for the bitch. Btw, i'm not Indian, just a person who see's good in every race.

make a comment about being open minded, but then use the word faggot?
:seriously:

[SumAznGuy]

all of rs must have grown up at van tech or something


Why yes I did go to Van Tech.

BTW, the guy that was caught is known to police with a pretty intensive criminal past. It has been argued that he was born with fetal alcohol syndrom and is a drug addict.

[Drow]

I don't see why ignorant and racist/stereotypical comments towards Aboriginals get so much attention when there are plenty of other posts about other cultures and people that get looked passed without a thought. :seriously:

Not saying its okay but its kinda inconsistent..

true that. hating on the first nations is unacceptable by the majority, but talking smack about china fobs seem to be the norm around here.

seems sorta unfair to the china men if u ask me.

[Doubledown1]

lol'd at platinum300's comment

Thats cause you're a moron.

[Gridlock]

Go live in Alberta and Saskatchewan for a few months.

I guarantee that you will despise them when you come back. Used to live in the Prairies way back, these people can't even hold on to a 50 dollar bill, just gets blown on alcohol, and then they go stealing wheels and cigarettes.

I vote for Gleichen, Alberta.

Profound, for a guy with the confederate flag as his avatar.

I don't think anyone looks at the first nation people and says, "you know, they have their shit together except for a few kinks to work out" I think everyone understands that they have some major, structural issues in society that needs help.

I think all that people are saying is its pretty harsh to write them off as capable of nothing else.

And there are people that make it out and become active, contributing members of society...a lot of them.

It's pretty damned narrow minded and rude to come on a forum and say "because chug" and be done with it.

true that. hating on the first nations is unacceptable by the majority, but talking smack about china fobs seem to be the norm around here.

seems sorta unfair to the china men if u ask me.

You know, its true. However, I 'think' some of it comes from people that are asian themselves. There is a difference between rocking some stereotypes(ie asian driving) and writing off an entire culture as hopeless. Just me though.

As well, I have NEVER seen someone put "because chink" and get away with it.

Drow...you asked why mindbomber continually fights to change the minds of people on this forum. Maybe its you. You are 21, and hopefully open enough to realizing that all that stuff you absorbed while growing up can be open to questioning. Maybe the next 'first native' person you meet will get an open mind from you instead of your first thought being "this guy has been drunk since birth"

[Doubledown1]

and @mindbomber

i know whenever there's a discussion about native people, a lot of RS' ugly sides turn up. I observed that each time you sorta take a slap to the face, and then feel the need to educate others about your race and to educate the simple minded.

Now, i'm not trying to tell you not to stick up for your own people but... don't you think sometimes its in your own best interest to just ignore it? you and I and pretty much a big majority of vancouver acknowledge that there exists some form of racial discrimination against the first natives. It's hard for people to not develop these assumptions that native people in general participate in the aforementioned activities.

I would bet that you've probably explained to other people, including those outside of RS, of how it is wrong to generalize first natives as the negative connotations that people perceive. And i would bet that you've probably been really fustrated over it as well. But i do hope you understand that no matter how many times you lecture people, or try to correct them, people will always be people. People will STILL generalize. You'd have to understand that the world isn't fair, and some people receive the shorter end of the stick while others benefit. Especially in this city, it is RARE, to encounter natives as intelligent as you are. Even for me ... you are probably the first Native person i've seen put together a well constructed argument, and i've seen a lot of natives in vancouver.

My point is... you might be wasting your time trying to educate people. This is a problem that probably won't be fixed in our lifetime.

I'm astounded by your moronic ignorance.

[MindBomber]

i meant no disrespect, im being realistic. i am 21, and mindbomber is the most intelligent first native ive come across. call me sheltered, but i am speaking from my own experience.

edit : i read this post again and realized how upset you were about my post. i felt kinda bad at first, but then i understand now that youre actually mad at reality. yah, im not gonna backpeddle what i said because you know what? if at the back of my mind i recall these experiences but i "back peddle" when i discuss this with other people, whats the point of discussion? this is a forum after all, and they are created to bring about discussion about various topics. you hate the fact that ive not met other first nations ppl like mindbomber? its one thing to be respectful, and its another to be pratical when we're discussing. i do not condone using racial slurs because it truly is discriminatory.

i tell mindbomber that its in his own best interest to not pursue educating others because i dont think hes using his time well. im not looking down on his efforts, im looking down on how well ppl will absorb the material. people generalize. its normal to generalize, but at the same time the norm is wrong. i dont believe this stigma will last indefinitely, i just know for the time being, the stigma will stick.

people who will agree with me are the ones that see the world as it is. people who dont, such as yourself, are the ones who try to see the world in a better light. the ones who that thinks everyone should be treated fairly, who think nobody should be receiving the shorter end of the stick. truth is, the world is not anywhere close to that. i support the first nations in ridding themselves of their negative image, there is nothing wrong with that. martin luther king himself needed the support and determination of his people in order to fight for their rights. in our case, if mindbomber wants society to think otherwise, there needs to be a collective effort from his people in order to make his "educations" to not go to waste.

Just for the record, I was a bit offended by the assertion that an intelligent First Nations person is a rare exception to the rule, but I was not offended to the post overall. I recognize that you had honest and good intentions with what you wrote, you just worded things a bit poorly and perhaps have slightly misguided views, but that's all.

A concentration of First Nations people struggling with addiction in the DTES is easily observed and leaves a powerful impression in ones mind, and it is the only impression many Vancouverites actually have of First Nations people. More First Nations people do struggle with addiction than members of other races, and there's a number of reasons behind that. All First Nations people are not addicts however, the majority of First Nations people are very intelligent and productive members of society, you just haven't had the opportunity to interact with them.

[GLOW]

As well, I have NEVER seen someone put "because chink" and get away with it.


reminds me of stores like san francisco that sold signs & tshirts that say:
"if you chink don't drive"

[Gridlock]

Go live in Alberta and Saskatchewan for a few months.

I guarantee that you will despise them when you come back. Used to live in the Prairies way back, these people can't even hold on to a 50 dollar bill, just gets blown on alcohol, and then they go stealing wheels and cigarettes.

I vote for Gleichen, Alberta.

Just for the record...THIS^^ is the kind of shit that I just write off as a douche. Totally unreachable. He'll be a racist for life. You can introduce this guy to university educated first nations people and it won't matter...its the alcolholic in saskatchewan that shaped his mind.

Sad.

[Doubledown1]

Yes he is basically the Ho that can't be turned into a housewife, for lack of better words.

[Supafly]

Theres way to many people getting butt-hurt in this thread.....do you honestly think you're going to change peoples mind by venting your idology over the internet??
You guys need to grow thicker skin.

Maybe its just me...but imho ( I interact with a lot of first nations; I work in the food industry) they're not the brightest people around. Granted that I am sure there is some very well educated ones; just the ones I have met over the 12 yrs of being in the food industry are not something I would say "Smart".
It is unfortunate that the ratio of good/bad is huge.

edit: I would like to hear your explaination as to why you are failing me dinosaur; i was sharing my experience that I had with one type of ethnic group.

[extracrunchie]

some food for thought - not really related to this but you can draw a similar comparison:

say a city is hiring firefighters. say there are 2 resumes on the table of the hiring manager. one guy is white, the other is black. because of political pressure for racial equality, the manager decides to hire the black man simply because of his skin color, though his resume and physical fitness is inferior to the white applicant. so it's a question of which is more important: the best man for the job, or the best mix of colors on the workforce.

of course thats not the topic here but i'm sure it's easy to draw some parallels from this example.. as in the justice system should be fair to EVERYBODY regardless of race. judge equally.

The fact is there is no perfect harmony, using your example if the 'white' man was hired by a 'white' person. The thought of racial discrimination is in play and in their mind they would have never thought of qualification.

Rather 'they are only hiring their own kind.' But situations like this is everywhere. As a government they try to build equality yet there are a few people out there that believe "hey they are taking our job" and starts with the racial slur.

Its a double edged sword I'm afraid. Same with men and women equality in a worksite.

[dinosaur]

Theres way to many people getting butt-hurt in this thread.....do you honestly think you're going to change peoples mind by venting your idology over the internet??
You guys need to grow thicker skin.

Maybe its just me...but imho ( I interact with a lot of first nations; I work in the food industry) they're not the brightest people around. Granted that I am sure there is some very well educated ones; just the ones I have met over the 12 yrs of being in the food industry are not something I would say "Smart".
It is unfortunate that the ratio of good/bad is huge.

Yeah....maybe it is just you...or maybe it is just the food industry? maybe people who work in the food industry are generally "not the brightest people around".

Look, I can sit here and spout off all the interactions I have had over 10 years of working directly with FN communities in my career (Archaeologist with a degree in Arch and FN Studies) and give you example over example to tear your argument to shreds.

but....alas, you can't argue with stupid.

[Supafly]

Yeah....maybe it is just you...or maybe it is just the food industry? maybe people who work in the food industry are generally "not the brightest people around".

Look, I can sit here and spout off all the interactions I have had over 10 years of working directly with FN communities in my career (Archaeologist with a degree in Arch and FN Studies) and give you example over example to tear your argument to shreds.

but....alas, you can't argue with stupid.

Ha, I like how you begin to start personal attacks...very mature. You are right... "you can't argue with stupid"....because when its programmed into their DNA, nothing can't beat it.:)

cheers.

[Drow]

I'm astounded by your moronic ignorance.

explain? i honestly think ur ignorant for calling me ignorant

[dinosaur]

Ha, I like how you begin to start personal attacks...very mature. You are right... "you can't argue with stupid"....because when its programmed into their DNA, nothing can't beat it.:)

cheers.

you don't understand.

I used the "food industry" as an example of a community of people and a generalization that can be made whether it is true or not. Get it?

All softball players are alcoholics...
All people who live in Surrey are on welfare...
All asian people are bad drivers...
All women are emotional...
All people who work in the food industry are dumb...
All natives are stupid...

You can do it with any community regardless of race/ethnicity/gender/community, etc.

You don't get it.

[Supafly]

Yeah....maybe it is just you...or maybe it is just the food industry? maybe people who work in the food industry are generally "not the brightest people around".



just FYI, I have a degree in mechanical engineering, a degree in food science, and enough certificates to put you to shame.

edit:

You are correct to some certain extent "maybe people who work in the food industry are generally not the brightest people around"....because its the first nations people that are constantly raping the rivers for "food/ritual fish" then try to sell it out the back of their pickup trucks while DFO is parked across the street monitoring them.

Im not here to look for a fight...Im just mearly stating -MY- experience, in one industry. You can either choose to ignore it; or read it with a grain of salt.

[dinosaur]

just FYI, I have a degree in mechanical engineering, a degree in food science, and enough certificates to put you to shame.

So...you found that insulting, then? Ya know...me...grouping people together and making an insulting generalization about everyone based on a couple examples.

interesting.

[MindBomber]

just FYI, I have a degree in mechanical engineering, a degree in food science, and enough certificates to put you to shame.


Can we keep the degree smashing and personal attacks out of this thread, please.

The discussion has merit and it would be unfortunate if the thread were locked.

[spyker]

just FYI, I have a degree in mechanical engineering, a degree in food science, and enough certificates to put you to shame.

All those years of schooling and all those degrees,yet you still came out narrow minded.

Have you ever thought that if you treat people with some respect,they will act differently around you.Treat them like a dumbass and they will act like a dumbass towards you.

[MoBettah]

You cannot help a people who don't want to help themselves.

[Supafly]

All those years of schooling and all those degrees,yet you still came out narrow minded.

Have you ever thought that if you treat people with some respect,they will act differently around you.Treat them like a dumbass and they will act like a dumbass towards you.

I may have a narrow mind, and I do accept it to a certain degree..but honestly; who doesn't have a narrow mind to an extent?

I treat people with the same amount of respect that I am given...although I do have to show more respect sometimes to due my job status.

You dont get something for nothing; in our feild; the customer is not always right.

[GLOW]

Can we keep the degree smashing and personal attacks out of this thread, please.

The discussion has merit and it would be unfortunate if the thread were locked.

you know the discussion is going south fast when people start whipping out their degrees :)

[dinosaur]

you know the discussion is going south fast when people start whipping out their degrees :)

:lawl:

I have a PhD in being AWESOME and KICKING ASS!!

[Doubledown1]

explain? i honestly think ur ignorant for calling me ignorant
Just put a sock in it............................ KID.

[Gridlock]

explain? i honestly think ur ignorant for calling me ignorant

Son, your post was the pure definition of ignorance. Casting a pre-disposed opinion on an entire group of people based on your vast, I'm sure experience with natives near and far is the definition of the term.

I read your explanations after, and I don't mean to keep pounding you, but what you really need to do is sit back, open your mind a bit and learn.

I mean no offense by this, but you are 21 my friend-you don't know shit.

Can we keep the degree smashing and personal attacks out of this thread, please.


I only have a diploma in business mgmt...does that mean I can't take part anymore?

[Drow]

Just put a sock in it............................ KID.

i see. cant put up an argument. you remind me of some religious ppl who cannot debate and just call you out with no reason because they are incompetent of doing so, because they are just "right".............. DOUBLEDOWNS

[Drow]

Son, your post was the pure definition of ignorance. Casting a pre-disposed opinion on an entire group of people based on your vast, I'm sure experience with natives near and far is the definition of the term.

I read your explanations after, and I don't mean to keep pounding you, but what you really need to do is sit back, open your mind a bit and learn.

I mean no offense by this, but you are 21 my friend-you don't know shit.



I only have a diploma in business mgmt...does that mean I can't take part anymore?

ill end my argument here then. after all, to each their own. in these discussions there cant really be a right or wrong; everything is subjective dependent on that individual's moral beliefs. there are some people such as yourself who hopes the world can be more understanding. you are correct, in context of your moral beliefs and with others who share your beliefs.

however, you must take note that what you label as "ignorant" is also subjective. ive been raised where it is rude to denounce other people's opinions. i may not agree with you, but i would.never call you ignorant or naive :woot2:

[Psykopathik]

Just for the record...THIS^^ is the kind of shit that I just write off as a douche.


Why do we think being a douche is bad? Its makes vaginas smell like a field of flowers when they are feeling not so fresh.

[MindBomber]

I only have a diploma in business mgmt...does that mean I can't take part anymore?

:gtfo:

:hotbaby:

[Supafly]

wheres Marco911.....lol :troll:

[GLOW]

I only have a diploma in business mgmt...does that mean I can't take part anymore?

hey don't sweat it. After all... Shaq's got a PhD....

i may not agree with you, but i would.never call you ignorant or naive :woot2:

what about moron? you were also called you a moron :)

[MindBomber]

Theres way to many people getting butt-hurt in this thread.....do you honestly think you're going to change peoples mind by venting your idology over the internet??
You guys need to grow thicker skin.

Maybe its just me...but imho ( I interact with a lot of first nations; I work in the food industry) they're not the brightest people around. Granted that I am sure there is some very well educated ones; just the ones I have met over the 12 yrs of being in the food industry are not something I would say "Smart".
It is unfortunate that the ratio of good/bad is huge.


I would venture to say, you've primarily encountered the lowest tier of First Nations society in your career. People who work in kitchens out of the necessity of an income are not generally the most intelligent people regardless of race, however. Dino and I have had interactions with a more diverse array of First Nations people and have had a radically different experience, which I do not think is coincidental.

[Glove]

this thread did not disapoint

[Supafly]

I would venture to say, you've primarily encountered the lowest tier of First Nations society in your career. People who work in kitchens out of the necessity of an income are not generally the most intelligent people regardless of race, however. Dino and I have had interactions with a more diverse array of First Nations people and have had a radically different experience, which I do not think is coincidental.

I work in the fishing industry (food). So our first nations clientels are usually fishermans and bussiness owners. :)

[Doubledown1]

i see. cant put up an argument. you remind me of some religious ppl who cannot debate and just call you out with no reason because they are incompetent of doing so, because they are just "right".............. DOUBLEDOWNSWaste of time arguing with a kid who thinks he's smart, and knows it all. Have a nice day. Besides, theirs nothing to argue about w/ you.

[Drow]

ok doubledownies

[Gridlock]

ill end my argument here then. after all, to each their own. in these discussions there cant really be a right or wrong; everything is subjective dependent on that individual's moral beliefs. there are some people such as yourself who hopes the world can be more understanding. you are correct, in context of your moral beliefs and with others who share your beliefs.

however, you must take note that what you label as "ignorant" is also subjective. ive been raised where it is rude to denounce other people's opinions. i may not agree with you, but i would.never call you ignorant or naive :woot2:

An opinion is "i like blue ink to black" or "vanilla ice cream ftw"

What you are making are statements of facts, based on a limited sample size of people you have met.

So while I agree it is rude to denounce an opinion, I feel fully justified to correct a statement of fact.

[kk76126]

wow lol....

[Drow]

An opinion is "i like blue ink to black" or "vanilla ice cream ftw"

What you are making are statements of facts, based on a limited sample size of people you have met.

So while I agree it is rude to denounce an opinion, I feel fully justified to correct a statement of fact.

fair enough. i guess you are right. i agree my statements are probably inaccurate due to the sample size but in vancouver, most ppls sample sizes are probably similar

[goo3]

I believe Metta World Peace will be able to shed some wisdom here :fullofwin:

Inside The Nba - Metta's World - (16-5-2012) - YouTube

[metal]

Theres way to many people getting butt-hurt in this thread.....do you honestly think you're going to change peoples mind by venting your idology over the internet??
You guys need to grow thicker skin.

Maybe its just me...but imho ( I interact with a lot of first nations; I work in the food industry) they're not the brightest people around. Granted that I am sure there is some very well educated ones; just the ones I have met over the 12 yrs of being in the food industry are not something I would say "Smart".
It is unfortunate that the ratio of good/bad is huge.

edit: I would like to hear your explaination as to why you are failing me dinosaur; i was sharing my experience that I had with one type of ethnic group.

I work for an airline that primarily serves a ton of reserves up north, so the majority of our customer base is first nations. Just like any other race, there are the incredibly stupid people, and the brilliant ones, and I haven't noticed a staggering difference in the ratio of idiots to great people.

[Doubledown1]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.

[dinosaur]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.

:rukidding:

[Eff-1]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.

http://i.imgur.com/Z1ktL.gif

[LiquidTurbo]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.

Don't mind the ad hominem, but Holy fuck, you're stupid.

[Gridlock]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.

I had high hopes for you, little one.

Now i have hopes you are high, because that was the dumbest thing ever. Gold star!

[HonestTea]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.

http://slicktiger.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/never_go_full_retard.png

[El Bastardo]

I will probably get flamed like crazy for this but i'll bet the average Indian is a better driver than the average Chinese person. Providing they are two people w/ the same driving experience.



Insulting the Chinese on a Chinese forum? Game over, man. Game over.

[XplicitLuder]

why is no one insulting the hispanics? COME ON I WANNA FEEL THE HATE TOO! :ilied:

this thread : tldr

[StylinRed]

doubledown is probably right though..... :pokerface:


why the hell is this thread still going? i was expecting updated news about the girl/thieves and instead get a bunch of blahblahblah



why is no one insulting the hispanics? COME ON I WANNA FEEL THE HATE TOO! :ilied:

this thread : tldr

the farmers in maple ridge hire a bunch of foreign hispanic workers and make them stay in the worst excuses for shelter :/

[SumAznGuy]

the farmers in maple ridge hire a bunch of foreign hispanic workers and make them stay in the worst excuses for shelter :/

Funny story from one of the farmers I deal with at work.

Last year he brought in 30 Mexican workers to work on his farm. He supplied them with a house on the farm to live in.
There was 8 females of which 4 will not be coming back this year.

Anyone want to take a wild guess why not?

[Over9K]

Sexual abuse?

[Graeme S]

Thread closed. This is going nowhere but more downhill.