[A$AProcky]

Uncle Sam could soon be coming after you on Canadian soil.
According to an article in Embassy Magazine, the Harper government is moving forward on several initiatives that could give U.S. FBI and DEA agents the ability to pursue suspects in Canada.
But, according to a RCMP officer, they're doing it in "baby steps."
"We recognized early that this approach would raise concerns about sovereignty, of privacy, and civil liberties of Canadians," RCMP Chief Superintendent Joe Oliver, the Mounties' director general for border integrity, told the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence on May 14.
"We said 'Let's take baby steps, let's start with two agencies to test the concept, let's demonstrate to Canadians and Americans that such an approach might work."
Baby step 1, according to Embassy Magazine, has already happened in the form cross border pilot projects allowing Canadian and American agents in each others waters.
Step 2 is the 'Shiprider' program which will make it permanently legal for U.S. agents to be certified as police in Canadian waters. This is on track to be passed into law by the Harper government's omnibus budget bill, C-38.
And step 3, is to roll out cross-border policing over land.
Embassy also notes that the government is not ruling out U.S. aerial surveillance over Canadian land.
These initiatives are part of the much-touted perimeter security initiative between Washington and Ottawa, designed to provide a thicker wall of security around the continent while easing trade barriers at the borders.
Critics have bemoaned the loss of Canada's jurisdiction and sovereignty over the new policing measures but Canadian officials insist it's needed.
"Criminals are exploiting the fact that we have to respect our boundaries and we have to stop at the border," Oliver said.
"We've had instances where we've engaged in the attempts to interdict vessels in our shared waterways, and the vessel has fled into the other territory and has escaped apprehension."
RCMP (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/rcmp-ease-canadians-idea-u-agents-canada-201905380.html)

Discuss

Edit: Full article from embassy mag

The RCMP is planning to ease Canadians into the idea of United States law enforcement agents pursuing suspects across the land border and onto Canadian soil through "baby steps," say two top Mounties.

"We recognized early that this approach would raise concerns about sovereignty, of privacy, and civil liberties of Canadians," RCMP Chief Superintendent Joe Oliver, the Mounties' director general for border integrity, told the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence on May 14.

"We said 'Let's take baby steps, let's start with two agencies to test the concept, let's demonstrate to Canadians and Americans that such an approach might work."

Mike Cabana, RCMP deputy commissioner for federal policing, also used the metaphor for an incremental approach in comments he made just before Mr. Oliver's.

"First of all, the discussion started with respect to marine environments. And secondly, baby steps," he said. A marine-based version "was seen as probably the most logical place to start to explore the possibilities."

Both officials were responding to a question by Conservative Senator Don Plett, who hails from Manitoba, as to why the Mounties hadn't gone further with Shiprider—the colloquial term for Integrated Cross-Border Maritime Law Enforcement Operations.

That program will make it permanently legal for United States agents to be certified as police in Canadian waters. It is on track to be passed into law by the majority Harper government as part of its budget bill, C-38, in the form of amendments to the RCMP Act, the Criminal Code, and the Customs Act.

The plan to roll out cross-border policing over land is to start this summer, according to the Canada-US perimeter security plan.

The RCMP has told Embassy this land-based program could give US Federal Bureau of Investigation and Drug Enforcement Administration agents the ability to pursue suspects on Canadian soil.

Embassy has also revealed that the government is not ruling out that aerial police surveillance over land will occur as a result of the current amendments.

As a result, opposition members and academic observers raised several questions around national jurisdiction and police accountability.

But both Public Safety Canada and the RCMP say they are sensitive to these concerns and that Canadian law will remain supreme.

The Mounties say they need the legislation. Criminals, said Mr. Oliver, are "exploiting the fact that we have to respect our boundaries and we have to stop at the border."

"We've had instances where we've engaged in the attempts to interdict vessels in our shared waterways, and the vessel has fled into the other territory and has escaped apprehension," he said.

Mr. Oliver also revealed that while it is often seen in the context of national security, cross-border policing is typically used to pursue organized crime.

Canadian and US agents are consistently focused on the terrorist threat as the "number one priority," he said, but "the reality is that during our day-to-day interactions, the most prevalent threat that we encounter is organized crime, criminal entrepreneurs."

Costs revealed

The RCMP has invested $3 million since 2005 on pilot projects, training, and getting four standardized Shiprider vessels, said Mr. Oliver.

The RCMP has roughly 400 boats, smaller vessels that are often deployed in contract policing or federal policing, he said. But for Shiprider, the program is now moving to a standard vessel so officers can quickly find equipment.

Around 140 Canadian and US cross-border officers have been trained so far, say the officials, at the US Federal Law Enforcement Training Center site in Charleston, South Carolina.

This year there are three classes of 28 people. They said the training is continually modified based on lessons learned in the field.

Each of the training courses cost the RCMP around $75,000. The Mounties pay for the accommodation and travel of officers, but the US pays for the courses.

The two officials noted that entrenching Shiprider into law didn't necessarily mean they would have to go to the federal government and ask for more money—the desire was more about a legal tool to use at events.

"Even in the absence of dedicated resources, there will be things like the Olympics, like the G20. Well, this will provide us an effective legislative tool in our toolbox that we can deploy on an as-needed basis," said Mr. Oliver.

Partial data-sharing in place

The Mounties do not yet have a single computer network that allows all law enforcement and government agencies to share information in real time, said Mr. Cabana.

The closest, he said, is ASIS, an organization that networks different security professionals. It has eight chapters in Canada: Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton, Calgary, the Prairies, the Pacific, and Southwestern Ontario.

There are other initiatives, he added, such as Canada's Marine Security Operation Centres, which vacuums up and consolidates information from different marine environments. American agents are located at a site in the Niagara region, he said.

"There are processes and protocols that have been implemented...out of concern to ensure the privacy and security of Canadians and to make sure that the information that exists, Canadian information, is properly maintained and properly shared."

An RCMP intelligence analyst is also located at Selfridge Air National Guard Base near Detroit, said Mr. Oliver.

There are also the annual threat assessments from the Integrated Border Enforcement Team, which draw input from the Canada Border Services Agency, the RCMP, the US Coast Guard, the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and the US Customs and Border Protection.

http://embassymag.ca/page/view/crossborder-05-16-2012

[murd0c]

I'm not surprised at all. The FBI already has a office in Vancouver from my understanding. I think it's a joke but Harper needs do what the Americans want him to do of course...

[TheNewGirl]

I'm not feeling eased or easy or even remotely comfortable with this idea.

[pastarocket]

Does "step 3" mean that the RCMP have legal jurisdiction to enter the U.S. to catch criminals or does this step only mean the U.S. cops can work in Canada?

[melloman]

^^ "SUPPOSEDLY" RCMP can go into US..

This idea is just calling for TONS of more bullshit in law enforcement regards. The USA just wants these bills passed so when they turn full-communist dictatorship, Canada will be at it's mercy and it will be "legal" then.

[A$AProcky]

I'm not surprised at all. The FBI already has a office in Vancouver from my understanding. I think it's a joke but Harper needs do what the Americans want him to do of course...

They have offices all over the world but no jurdisiction to do anything this would change that.

Does "step 3" mean that the RCMP have legal jurisdiction to enter the U.S. to catch criminals or does this step only mean the U.S. cops can work in Canada?

Nope its only one way from what I've read there is only mention of allowing them onto Canadian soil. No way the American people, or even their crooked Government would allow the RCMP to cross into there territory. Like the poster above said I'm not comfortable with this I rather have drones watching over us.

[dachinesedude]

harper's handing over canada on a silver platter

[GLOW]

Better start working on my american accent and spell colour without the 'u'

[MindBomber]

Steven Harper's plan is for us to gradually transition to a colony of the United States.

Do people who voted Conservative support these measures?

[rsx]

oh..my..god /randy marsh

[tiger_handheld]

brb going to apply for green card.

[InvisibleSoul]

That better not mean MPAA and RIAA can start making the FBI go after people in Canada.

[T4RAWR]

^^ "SUPPOSEDLY" RCMP can go into US..

This idea is just calling for TONS of more bullshit in law enforcement regards. The USA just wants these bills passed so when they turn full-FASCIST dictatorship, Canada will be at it's mercy and it will be "legal" then.

Fixed that for you...

That better not mean MPAA and RIAA can start making the FBI go after people in Canada.

AFAIK, they will not be able to do that, unless our court systems change to follow the american model as well.

[CP.AR]

WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON
WE DO NOT WANT TO BE A STATE.

[vafanculo]

This better not affect my marijuana activity

[jackmeister]

DEA is okay... in a broad sense that they're targeting drug criminals only (i hope)
FBI / CIA is not okay.

Time to go back to Asia :fuckthatshit:

[Santofu]

What would happen if they target the wrong person (somewhat a look-alike?)

[Sean@Home]

Day by day our liberties are erroding.

[noventa]

woohoooooooo!

[StylinRed]

DEA is okay... in a broad sense that they're targeting drug criminals only (i hope)



Well considering Americas 'Conspiracy' laws this is not good at all... they can basically arrest you without any evidence at all they could arrest you on hearsay


Conspiracy (crime) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_%28crime%29)

Hearsay in United States law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law)



This is fucking ridiculous tbh Im surprised the other parties and citizens aren't rioting in the streets over this



time to move to HK :)

[belaud]

Steven Harper's plan is for us to gradually transition to a colony of the United States.

Do people who voted Conservative support these measures?

Is this fact, or is this hyperbole?

[StylinRed]

Is this fact, or is this hyperbole?

evidence would suggest that the probability that its fact is rather high

there's been talk of it for quite a long time now North American Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union) and im not talking about conspiracy theorists...

they seem to be taking many 'baby steps' in many sectors (trade, travel, law, etc) pretty soon we'll be joined and it would seem like the most natural course due to the years of baby steps taken

Harper however seems to be pushing it quite a bit

[falcon]

Fuck that shit. Keep the US in their own country. This should NOT be happening. Yet another reason I fully do not support the Harper govnt.

[Excelsis]

one step forward towards the nwo?






















:suspicious: fuck off

[JSALES]

I do not like this idea at all.

[willystyle]

North America Union, much? The more I read about news like this, the more I think those conspiracy theorists may have gotten some of it right all along.

This is wrong on so many levels.

[urrh]

I do not like this idea at all.
not even a little bit.

Fuck that shit. Keep the US in their own country. This should NOT be happening. Yet another reason I fully do not support the Harper govnt.
i knew it was bad news bears when he was arrogant enough to rename our govt after him

[jasonturbo]

Sovereignty is dead.

The way I see it, the concept of a global community seems fairly likely, where soverign nations will gradually coalesce to the extent that whether a physical border exists or not will be of little consequence.

How do I feel about it? To be honest, I'm happy that we share our border with only one country, and I'm not terribly upset that it's the United States.. Sooner of later there will come a time that our geographic location will be a major advantage. North America is, in comparison with most other parts of the world rich in many ways. We have a low population concentration, an abundance of virtually every natural resource, high standards of education, a reasonable climate for agriculture, a well established political structure and legal system, modern/developed infrastructure, and an ocean seperating us from most geo and socio pollitical issues that cause a lot of trouble in other parts of the world.

Mehh does it really matter if there FBI agents are here? It's not like they don't have embassy's and military bases all over the world... so what's the difference really? Like there wasn't agents here for the last 70 years anyway...

[Teh Doucher]

National defense authorization act. Look it up. Been implimented for quite some time now, FBI/CIA etc can detain you for no reason at all withno chance of going to court either if you are found doing "terriorist" type activities.

[Excelsis]

^^^ "does it really matter", when a thing like this out of the blue happens when we deal with security just fine then yes it does matter

shit like this doesn't get denied, i'm going to try and see if there's a way to veto this by mailing mayor or something like that

petition sign up?

[Spartacus]

Canada will be part of the united states of America.

[Excelsis]

if that happens...

time to move asap :denied:

[Anjew]

move where? =(

[rJZx]

http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2006/09/05/P14-060905-002.jpg

:fullofwin:

[Raid3n]

if harper signs over canada, i'm selling everything i own and moving to another continent...

[yray]

How does this even work? So will the criminal face a Canadian judge or a us judge if they are caught in Canada by FBI/CIA/donutcop. Unless a person has a warrant, then a person caught in Canada by US law enforcement cannot be forced to go to the US to face a judge. :facepalm: This is gonna be a nightmare for the courts and the justice system.

[belka]

I have no problem with US officials pursuing suspects into Canadian borders. All these "police state" comments are pretty asinine. If Harper was to do the opposite you hippies would call him soft on crime. Can't win with the tree hugging crowd of BC.

[Nightwalker]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

[Excelsis]

I have no problem with US officials pursuing suspects into Canadian borders. All these "police state" comments are pretty asinine. If Harper was to do the opposite you hippies would call him soft on crime. Can't win with the tree hugging crowd of BC.

lol are you even aware of what's been happening in the US in 2011/12?

[RacePace]

[img]http://www.taipeitimes.com/images/2006/09/05/P14-060905-002.jpg[img]

:fullofwin:

Yeah, but deadly everything (mostly spiders)

[stewie]

stephen harper needs to go...

when can he be replaced?

[The_AK]

wonder how this will affect people pirating content

[goo3]

Is this fact, or is this hyperbole?

"Politician X is a monster and he's out to kill your babies. Don't make me say I told you so." :lol This seems to be the pattern year after year, election after election.. even look at US politics - it's way worse. Obama's gonna unplug your grandma from life support cuz he's an evil arab - ROAARR..

People say high frequency traders are like rats who offer nothing to society. They might have a point, but I think emotional political junkies are also like rats who add nothing productive, in fact crowd out productive discussion... :fullofwin:

Anyway, here's some more information on that shiprider program (step 2 to 3) I think does a better job of describing things more accurately, just on the crime prevention point of view. You might still not like it, but at least base it on the facts, right?


5. Shiprider becomes Landrider: This could be the single most important initiative on the law-enforcement side. A current pilot program called Shiprider allows vessels manned by integrated teams of Canadian and American police officers to cross back and forth across the maritime border, operating under Canadian command and Canadians laws on our side, American command and American laws on theirs. The goal is to expand the program to create specially-badged bi-national law-enforcement teams on land and sea.

None of the three dozen or so items in the action plan requires a treaty or legislation. It can pretty much all be done through executive order in both countries. But implementing the agreement will cost money to improve border infrastructure and acquire sophisticated software.

Five ways border deal improves life on both sides - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/five-ways-border-deal-improves-life-on-both-sides/article2263469/)

[Death2Theft]

Well they proposed a law in the US that doesn't allow anyone to leave the country if you owe the IRS $. Problem is theres no judge or jury so they can say you owe them and never produce any evidence of such yet you can't travel. LOLZ.

All I know is if tsa starts showing up in canadian airports and molesting people........It's time to make a stand.

[RouRK]

stephen harper needs to go...

when can he be replaced?

October 19, 2015,

[fliptuner]

http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx81/Johnon/Meme%20collection/GTFO.png

[Gridlock]

I can see something like this at sea. It makes sense.

You have someone that you are pursuing and they run for the "border", which is in quotes because at sea there really is no border.

If you are RCMP and you see a smuggler, or a boat filled with illegal immigrants and you pursue and then have to stop because you ran out of map and watch them sail away, knowing that US backup cannot be there in time, that would be both frustrating and a pretty big loophole.

So if you have an agreement in place that you can call in, and be authorized to pursue due to a bilateral agreement...I'm ok with that.

I don't feel we need to have the FBI on the streets of Vancouver saying "you intend to sell this in America" and take you out, and you disappear to US jail for 30 years. Oh, and then get charged money for the privilege.

We have our own police and our own laws. If I wanted to live in the states, I would have moved there when you could make way more money there than in Canada.

[hotjoint]

wow stupid harper

[FerrariEnzo]

so... the harper government is bending over to Obama and taking it in the ass and we have to suffer....

all I have to say is that the Canadian citizens better not get harassed by the stupid american officials

[melloman]

How do I feel about it? To be honest, I'm happy that we share our border with only one country, and I'm not terribly upset that it's the United States.. Sooner of later there will come a time that our geographic location will be a major advantage. North America is, in comparison with most other parts of the world rich in many ways. We have a low population concentration, an abundance of virtually every natural resource, high standards of education, a reasonable climate for agriculture, a well established political structure and legal system, modern/developed infrastructure, and an ocean seperating us from most geo and socio pollitical issues that cause a lot of trouble in other parts of the world.

Bolded words:
1) So your willing to accept that we could become a "state" of the USA. Which would mean that we would get fucked over aswell with their failing economy, debts to everyone around the world (two fold), their shitty government, and all their shit about "war fixes everything." Wait until you get drafted, then you'll be making a stink.

2) Low population? Not when all the fucking Americans decide that Canada is a better, more open place to live.. especially with all that cleaner drinking water, and all that space to kill forests and build megamalls. Lets not forget we "sold" millions of dollars of OUR WATER to California which we still haven't seen a dollar from for years...

3) Our legal system sucks. If you just recently watched the news.. There was a lady whose "air freshner" fell and she had to fix it.. instead of leaving it on the ground in her car. She struck 2 people, killed 1 and put the other into critical care. She got a FINE OF $1500?!?! for driving without due care.


I don't mean this as a personal attack, just that this one paragraph was just... :derp: If you can tell me HOW we could benefit from ANYTHING from the USA, please... let me know. I can only think of military defense, and they make enough enemies that I'd rather not be associated with them.

[belka]

stephen harper needs to go...

when can he be replaced?

When the opposition gets their shit together, probably somewhere around 2020.

[HonestTea]

Yeah, but deadly everything (mostly spiders)

So true..so true.. :(

[Lomac]

I love these type of threads. Anti-American sentiment really comes out in full force by all the keyboard warriors.

It's not like the FBI is going to be wandering around Robson St, looking for people illegally downloading music or movies. They may end up being classified as "police" in Canada, but they will still follow Canadian laws. The main objective of this project is to allow those in "hot pursuit" to cross a border instead of them crossing their fingers, hoping that an RCMP force will be there waiting for the perp the FBI is following. The USA already has problems with this very issue when crossing states, and it just becomes an even bigger issue of red tape when criminals cross a border. This is intended to help bring back a criminal they're chasing without having to wait for multiple government departments to give the okay before they can have a couple Mounties start looking for them. That's the gist of it. Is there a possibility that it can be opened to other, less loveable means? Of course. But that doesn't mean that it will. And you can't live life dwelling on the possibilities of everything. Hell, there's a chance I'll be struck by lightning while doing a jig on the roof of my house, but that's the risk I run of doing such an action. I can't fault nature for it.

[Excelsis]

^ i don't buy that, something about this isn't really right

and which criminals actually escaped into canada before? ..

[JD¹³]

This wouldn't be necessary if Canada's justice system had some fucking balls and locked up or buried criminals like they're supposed to instead of slapping them on the wrist and saying "be nice now".

[Lomac]

^ i don't buy that, something about this isn't really right

and which criminals actually escaped into canada before? ..

Plenty. I live by the border and, on the occasional night time drive, you can actually see people hopping the border.

That aside, I know there have been plenty of real criminals that have come into Canada in order to evade persecution. Hell, even if you think back to 'Nam and the Gulf War v2... soldiers coming into Canada to avoid a tour are considered criminals of a sort (just not techncially on the same sort of scale as mob bosses, murderers and rapists).

[A$AProcky]

I love these type of threads. Anti-American sentiment really comes out in full force by all the keyboard warriors.

It's not like the FBI is going to be wandering around Robson St, looking for people illegally downloading music or movies. They may end up being classified as "police" in Canada, but they will still follow Canadian laws. The main objective of this project is to allow those in "hot pursuit" to cross a border instead of them crossing their fingers, hoping that an RCMP force will be there waiting for the perp the FBI is following. The USA already has problems with this very issue when crossing states, and it just becomes an even bigger issue of red tape when criminals cross a border. This is intended to help bring back a criminal they're chasing without having to wait for multiple government departments to give the okay before they can have a couple Mounties start looking for them. That's the gist of it. Is there a possibility that it can be opened to other, less loveable means? Of course. But that doesn't mean that it will. And you can't live life dwelling on the possibilities of everything. Hell, there's a chance I'll be struck by lightning while doing a jig on the roof of my house, but that's the risk I run of doing such an action. I can't fault nature for it.

How can you be so sure that they wont be wandering our streets down the road especially when we haven't been given any guarantee. The title of the article is "RCMP to ease Canadians into the idea of U.S agents in Canada" and you even say "there is a possibility it can be opened to other, less lovable means" make up your mind. And if they cant even cross into some states in some cases why should we let them cross our border?

Plenty. I live by the border and, on the occasional night time drive, you can actually see people hopping the border.

That aside, I know there have been plenty of real criminals that have come into Canada in order to evade persecution. Hell, even if you think back to 'Nam and the Gulf War v2... soldiers coming into Canada to avoid a tour are considered criminals of a sort (just not techncially on the same sort of scale as mob bosses, murderers and rapists).

If this is true, and you always see people hopping the border (I call BS) well why aren't we beefing up border security? If you can see them so should authorities. We could just use drones in that case to track and apprehend them. Personally I'm fine with them crossing into our seas but not land we should just use better communication & share intelligence so our officials are ready to arrest the suspects. Allowing US agents to be classified as police in Canada is a slippery slope.

[ilovebacon]

Look like were slowly turning into one country... but, but i was raised in canada for the freedom.

[twitchyzero]

Canada will be part of the united states of America.

Bolded words:
1) So your willing to accept that we could become a "state" of the USA. Which would mean that we would get fucked over aswell with their failing economy, debts to everyone around the world (two fold), their shitty government, and all their shit about "war fixes everything." Wait until you get drafted, then you'll be making a stink.

2) Low population? Not when all the fucking Americans decide that Canada is a better, more open place to live.. especially with all that cleaner drinking water, and all that space to kill forests and build megamalls. Lets not forget we "sold" millions of dollars of OUR WATER to California which we still haven't seen a dollar from for years...

3) Our legal system sucks. If you just recently watched the news.. There was a lady whose "air freshner" fell and she had to fix it.. instead of leaving it on the ground in her car. She struck 2 people, killed 1 and put the other into critical care. She got a FINE OF $1500?!?! for driving without due care.


I don't mean this as a personal attack, just that this one paragraph was just... :derp: If you can tell me HOW we could benefit from ANYTHING from the USA, please... let me know. I can only think of military defense, and they make enough enemies that I'd rather not be associated with them.


look at the bright side guys, maybe it will mean cheap gas and no more price gouging for all goods and services :troll:

[Great68]

This reminds me of what happened with Marc Emery. Weren't DEA agents operating in Canada when they took him down?

I was disturbed to hear that this was happening back then, I'm even more disturbed now.

Sorry I can't take this kind of thing lightly, you open the door a crack and it's only a matter of time before they (U.S.) want it wide open. I trust these politicians and government agencies as far as I can throw them.

[godwin]

Not to mention, I would wager quite a few complaints come the people who bemoan the long line up into WA for their gas / grocery runs.

The reality is US want to close / secured border to keep them happy in their haha fantasy world. We have to compromise.

Honestly I rather the US come over and catches fugitives like Lai ChangXing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lai_Changxing) for us and deport them.. we keep on trading with China.

I love these type of threads. Anti-American sentiment really comes out in full force by all the keyboard warriors.

It's not like the FBI is going to be wandering around Robson St, looking for people illegally downloading music or movies. They may end up being classified as "police" in Canada, but they will still follow Canadian laws. The main objective of this project is to allow those in "hot pursuit" to cross a border instead of them crossing their fingers, hoping that an RCMP force will be there waiting for the perp the FBI is following. The USA already has problems with this very issue when crossing states, and it just becomes an even bigger issue of red tape when criminals cross a border. This is intended to help bring back a criminal they're chasing without having to wait for multiple government departments to give the okay before they can have a couple Mounties start looking for them. That's the gist of it. Is there a possibility that it can be opened to other, less loveable means? Of course. But that doesn't mean that it will. And you can't live life dwelling on the possibilities of everything. Hell, there's a chance I'll be struck by lightning while doing a jig on the roof of my house, but that's the risk I run of doing such an action. I can't fault nature for it.

[StaxBundlez]

soon....
UNLIMITED POWAH! - YouTube

[jasonturbo]

Bolded words:
1) So your willing to accept that we could become a "state" of the USA. Which would mean that we would get fucked over aswell with their failing economy, debts to everyone around the world (two fold), their shitty government, and all their shit about "war fixes everything." Wait until you get drafted, then you'll be making a stink.

2) Low population? Not when all the fucking Americans decide that Canada is a better, more open place to live.. especially with all that cleaner drinking water, and all that space to kill forests and build megamalls. Lets not forget we "sold" millions of dollars of OUR WATER to California which we still haven't seen a dollar from for years...

3) Our legal system sucks. If you just recently watched the news.. There was a lady whose "air freshner" fell and she had to fix it.. instead of leaving it on the ground in her car. She struck 2 people, killed 1 and put the other into critical care. She got a FINE OF $1500?!?! for driving without due care.


I don't mean this as a personal attack, just that this one paragraph was just... :derp: If you can tell me HOW we could benefit from ANYTHING from the USA, please... let me know. I can only think of military defense, and they make enough enemies that I'd rather not be associated with them.

Everything I said was in based on a comparison of sharing our borders with say.. Iran... Bangladesh... Lebanon.. etc. I see it from the perspective that we are somewhat fortunate to have the USA as neighbors.. maybe you like fundamentalist Muslims living next door but I do not.

1) It's not a matter of America "taking over" Canada.. I don't know why you seem to think that Canada and the USA are so different, when was the last time Canadian troops weren't fighting right along side American troops? Americans are just like Canadians, sure some of them fall into the category of being inbred southerners, but we have people like that too, newfies. Also, why do you suggest America's economy is so much worse than Canada's? Perhaps you should look at what Canada might be getting iteself into with a consumer debt/housing bubble.. we as a people are more in debt than the USA per capita.

2) And on the subject of population density: (2005 figures)
•North America - 32 people per square mile
•South America - 73 people per square mile
•Europe - 134 people per square mile
•Asia - 203 people per square mile
•Africa - 65 people per square mile
•Australia - 6.4 people per square mile

Even if Canada was to go from 9 people per square mile to 32.. it would be nothing compared to other parts of the world, if you don't believe North America is in a great position in terms of resources/person.. you're only fooling yourself.

3) Our legal system sucks? Nice to know you studied law, I will say that no legal system is perfect and that is obvious, but again, compared to many other parts of the world it is far better, and compared to other modern democratic nations it is certainly no more flawed.

You bitch about the American government? Well how much better is our Canadian government if they just "bend over and do whatever America tells them too".. want to bitch about something why not get going on NAFTA... and that was enacted in 1994, under Liberal leader Jean Chretien.

Canada debt to GDP is currently at 83.5%, it was at one time 92% back in 1996, the united states is sitting at 103% and that's after an increase of 30% over the last 4 years due to a massive financial crash.

In terms of debt to population:

People/Debt
Canada: 34,108,752/ 1.20 Trillion
USA: 311,591,917 / 15.32 Trillion

So Canada has roughly 20% less public debt/person than the USA... with our resource base and low population, it's not exactly something to be proud of considering we basically drop our shorts and give away resources and money.. and tax the fuck out of everyone.

If you don't think an implosion of Canada's housing market wouldn't push our Debt/GDP way above that of the states.. you need to do more reading. Nevermind our mortgages are federally insured, shifting the financial burden of a collapse directly to the public.

Ultimately I just can't understand why so many of you seem "anti-american", the people of both countries are very much alike, you will realize this when you spend time on the other side of the world. Also the comments that make America sound like some horrible wasteland.. maybe you need to spend more time there.. North America as a whole is beautiful IMO.

Mehhh... this is basically a Harper hating thread anyway lol.

[Great68]

want to bitch about something why not get going on NAFTA... and that was enacted in 1994, under Liberal leader Jean Chretien.


NAFTA was 90% Brian Mulroney and George Bush Sr. They signed an agreement to have it ratified in 1992.

Jean Chretien just didn't have the balls to say fuck off to Bill Clinton (they were both elected just before ratification) and cancel the whole thing.

Sorry but you can't even come close to pegging it all on Chretien.

[jasonturbo]

NAFTA was 90% Brian Mulroney and George Bush Sr. They signed an agreement to have it ratified in 1992.

Jean Chretien just didn't have the balls to say fuck off to Bill Clinton (they were both elected just before ratification) and cancel the whole thing.

Sorry but you can't even come close to pegging it all on Chretien.

Just like you said, Jean Chretien "didn't have the balls to say fuck off to bill clinton"... well I guess Harper doesn't have the balls to say fuck off to Obama.

So what' the difference if you vote Conservative or Liberal??? Not sure I can tell the difference.

[Great68]

Just like you said, Jean Chretien "didn't have the balls to say fuck off to bill clinton"... well I guess Harper doesn't have the balls to say fuck off to Obama.

So what' the difference if you vote Conservative or Liberal??? Not sure I can tell the difference.

A) I don't know about you, but I find a HUGE difference between free trade concessions and allowing another country's law enforcement to operate in our country.

B) You missed the part where Mulroney and Bush SIGNED an agreement to have NAFTA ratified. Which generally means big penalties should one of the countries back off.

[MindBomber]

Just like you said, Jean Chretien "didn't have the balls to say fuck off to bill clinton"... well I guess Harper doesn't have the balls to say fuck off to Obama.

So what' the difference if you vote Conservative or Liberal??? Not sure I can tell the difference.

Chretien as a Lib didn't cancel the deal, but Mulroney as a PC made it happen.

Harper as a Con is now doing exactly what Mulroney did, which is nothing like Chretien, he's brokering entirely new ones and making other moves to Americanize Canada.

I don't see how you could draw a comparison between what Chretien did and what Harper is doing.

[Great68]

Harper as a Con is now doing exactly what Mulroney did, which is nothing like Chretien, he's brokering entirely new ones and making other moves to Americanize Canada.

Was just about to edit my post to state exactly this.

[PiuYi]

instead of posting on RS, has anyone written to their local MP about this?

[jasonturbo]

A) I don't know about you, but I find a HUGE difference between free trade concessions and allowing another country's law enforcement to operate in our country.

B) You missed the part where Mulroney and Bush SIGNED an agreement to have NAFTA ratified. Which generally means big penalties should one of the countries back off.

Hey bud, I'm just quoting what you said.. lol.

If it makes you feel better, I can go google happy and find a million things people hated about the Liberal Govt.. or any other party for that matter.

I hate the idea of increasing social spending, I would sooner have FBI agents walking the streets than pay for anymore of these socialist handout programs put forth by the Libs/NDP.

See below for conservative rant:

I'll be voting conservative till if fucking die, I don't care if they post Uncle Sam's fake fucking face on out flag.. cause I don't care about anything except my personal quality of life (And yes that means the quality of others lives, as I don't want to be surrounded by poor people)... So until the left winged parties can stop making crazy promises to the decaying baby boomers and young under-achievers in the interest of votes, I won't be looking to change anything in this country... like I care about a fucking FBI agent...

You have your view and I have mine, that's the beauty of politics. Topics that you think are important, may not align with what I think is important.

[MindBomber]

instead of posting on RS, has anyone written to their local MP about this?

Yes, and I encourage any person who feels strongly about any given political issue to do the same. It takes approximately the same amount of time to write an intelligent post on RS as it does to express your thoughts to your MP.

Hey bud, I'm just quoting what you said.. lol.

If it makes you feel better, I can go google happy and find a million things people hated about the Liberal Govt.. or any other party for that matter.

I hate the idea of increasing social spending, I would sooner have FBI agents walking the streets than pay for anymore of these socialist handout programs put forth by the Libs/NDP.

See below for conservative rant:

I'll be voting conservative till if fucking die, I don't care if they post Uncle Sam's fake fucking face on out flag.. cause I don't care about anything except my personal quality of life (And yes that means the quality of others lives, as I don't want to be surrounded by poor people)... So until the left winged parties can stop making crazy promises to the decaying baby boomers and young under-achievers in the interest of votes, I won't be looking to change anything in this country... like I care about a fucking FBI agent...

You have your view and I have mine, that's the beauty of politics. Topics that you think are important, may not align with what I think is important.

As if the Cons are infallible and operate government with an efficient model. The Cons actively spend tax dollars and give away potential revenue, just like every government worldwide.

[Verdasco]

just give us cheesecake factory and i will be happy :sweetjesus:

maybe revscene will be happy :fullofwin:

edit: if we become American :troll:

[goo3]

How can you be so sure that they wont be wandering our streets down the road especially when we haven't been given any guarantee. The title of the article is "RCMP to ease Canadians into the idea of U.S agents in Canada" and you even say "there is a possibility it can be opened to other, less lovable means" make up your mind. And if they cant even cross into some states in some cases why should we let them cross our border?


What if it was an integrated team under Canadian orders following Canadian laws when in Canada, and vice versa when in the US, with authority to pursue crime across the border? We follow a similar command structure with NORAD where sometimes a Canadian is in charge and other times it's an American. Are there things we should be worried about NORAD?

[belka]

Until you kids stop complaining on internet forums and actually voice your opinion to your local politician, nothing will change.

[zulutango]

What I heard...4 person crew on ship...3 Cdn and 1 US or 3 US and 1 Cdn. When they go into US waters the US crew enforce the US laws, assisted by Cdn Cop...when they come into Cdn waters they enforce Cdn laws. In Canada the Cdn Cop is in charge, in the US the US Cop is in charge.

This is nothing new, my son is working for NORAD in Washington. He is in the Canadian Air Force but commands US troops. They had US Air Force members working for NORAD in the "hole" in North Bay Ontario. US Cops take training from the RCMP in Canada and Canadian Munis and RCMP take training from US Cops in the US. The criminals work across borders...why not the good guys?

[melloman]

My 0.02 cents just comes in as this:

90% of the time, whenever you give someone a foot, and they see the oppurtunity, they take a mile. Just like Great68 said, open the door a crack, and they will want it wide open.

If we don't turn into a US state, I can see the USA bleeding us dry of our resources.
Consider this:
-They take our oil from the tar sands, process it, mark it up, and sell it back to us.
-Timber practically follows ^^ trend.
-We give them our water already (My Cali. statement from previous post)

Like zulu said, we already have been letting them into the country. Why do they want to pass bills for something they are already doing? What are they going to gain? (More access, and most likely, more lenient access)

I like Canada, I might not like our government or legal system, but I do like how our laws were. Not all this new age crap being passed and swept under the mat.

[Death2Theft]

Soon your privates could be touched by the TSA.
A former Catholic priest who was defrocked after it was discovered he had sexually abused young girls is now working as a security screener for the TSA it has been revealed.

[jasonturbo]

Soon your privates could be touched by the TSA.
A former Catholic priest who was defrocked after it was discovered he had sexually abused young girls is now working as a security screener for the TSA it has been revealed.

Well I don't know about you guys, but when I'm at airport security, a free handjob would really help me relax!

[jasonturbo]

Well I don't know about you guys, but when I'm at airport security, a free handjob would really help me relax!


Why the fails??? It's obvious that what he posted about the priest is a lie!!! Since when do Catholic Priests sexual assualt GIRLS????