[BoostedBB6]

I'm wondering what the outlook on another Performance/Tuning shop opening up in the great Vancouver area.

Are there enough shops around Vancouver to meet the needs of the automotive enthusiast or is there a need for another shop?

Let me know what your opinions are on this and what you would like to see if a new shop were to open up.

Boosted

[Gridlock]

I don't think so myself. I don't think nearly the amount of people are modding their cars the way they were before. In order to add more capacity to the local marketplace for anything, you either need to have a growing customer base, or go in cheaper or better to steal market share. Entering with the idea of stealing market share as your sole source of customers is a hard prospect.

[BoostedBB6]

Taking away business from the other locak business is not something that I (or anyone opening a business) should consider as a good business plan.

I do agree on these points but I also seem to see a lot of people who are unhappy with the local offerings and look for alternatives. I know every shop will have there bad experiences be it a customer problem or a shop problem.

In the business that I am in now we make money based on the fact that we offer service and quality that no one can match locally. All our products sell at full retail price and our customers are glad to pay that with the product support and knowledge we offer.
If I were to open a shop I would want to use my experience here as model for a business going forward.

[TRDood]

Don't think it would work. People who buy aftermarket parts in Vancouver usually know how to get deals below Canadian MRSP, for example, by buying in the States. Thus, you might only be getting labour hours.

This means you are also competing with autobody shops, mechanics, dealerships, and backyard mechanics depending on the assignment.

How can you match service and quality locally? Service, maybe. But anyone can pick out their parts off a catalog or any website.

You will also be paying expensive Vancouver rent for a shop.

That being said, unless you are competing with M&M Design or SR Auto, which their customer base have unlimited amount of resource. They don't care about deals, they seem to care about "what friends have, I must have".

[Gridlock]

Myself, in renovations, I started in the 'good value' area, and people will drop you for a guy $50 cheaper. Much better to play in the "make it look awesome" category. More money, but way more challenging...which is the part that makes it fun(and a headache), but I got sick of hearing"I don't have much money..." when I'm standing in their condo that they just bought for some ridiculous amount of money.

[Hondaracer]

The tuning scene is dead.

[BoostedBB6]

Sadly I think Hondaracer may have summed it up for the local scene.....

[G-spec]

It would work only if it were a complete shop that sold parts as well, but the only possible way I see a new shop becoming successful is if it were to do something no local shop has been able to do so far, and this is somehow magically finding a way to sell products for the same price it's sold for in the US. That means tires at US prices, body parts, engine parts, etc.... almost everything... And on top of that for the hardcore JDM crowd you would need good connections straight out of Japan.


And that's not even enough, you would probably have to stock these parts at your warehouse too so they're easily accessible to the customer.
Since I've jumped into tuning outta high school in the early 2000's I can probably count on one hand the amount of times a local shop has had something I wanted in stock at their shop. All my friends too over the years, the amount of money we have given to US based stores and shops is ridiculous.
Specifically you would be needing specialists, guys who know mazdas, nissans, fords, etc.... and these guys would have an idea of what the most popular local platforms are and what their owners are typically after so then you know what would sell hot and fast.
For example the Mazda 3 crowd loves their lip kits and HID's and lowering springs, so you would obviously need to stock up on these items, etc...etc... you get the idea..


Opening up a new shop and relying strictly on "good honest workmanship" not gonna cut it because we have a few good local shops finally that we can trust.

[spyker]

If the shop you plan on opening caters to the current trends,then I don't see why you can't make it.

Right now the biggest thing in the tuning scene is the stance look or whatever it's called.

[Glove]

Think about location,

the fact the only couple decent shops are in richmond sucks for anyone in the valley area.

Open one in langley or abbotsford and dominate that market over there, theres no competition.

The tuning scene is dead?

why does mission raceway sell out every friday?, why is there no parking at RS meets unless you show up 2 hours early? Why are there a bunch of honda's competing to be the first in the 9's this year in the quarter mile? This is the most intense year ever in the "tuning scene"

:rukidding:

You must be talking about the riceing scene with underglow and body kits, yes that scene is dead.


The main problem is cost, and reputation.

rent is too expensive for a shop, thus you must pass on the costs to the customer, then they will order and bring their own parts, then you install their parts, their parts fail, they blame you, you get bad rep, and people are way too fuckin cheap to pay for good work, they would rather spend money at backyard places and take the no warranty chance.

I think there are only 2 or 3 shops that still have, and have always maintained a good reputation.


G-spec nailed it,

None of the shops locally ever have anything in stock except the most common items,

but that is not any shops fault, its canada's fault.

Manufactorers have their own warehouses in the US, so when a shop sells a product it drop ships from the manufactorers warehouse, the shops themselves dont have their own warehouses, we dont have dropship services here.

And if you do manage to stock some parts, they need to be comparible to US prices, because every other shop locally charges over 50% above US prices, so everyone just goes down south for shopping

[dangonay]

Taking away business from the other locak business is not something that I (or anyone opening a business) should consider as a good business plan.
No, that's exactly how you should think about running your business. 95% of the tuning shops are shit. There's nothing wrong with taking business away from the lousy shops and having them come to your shop (provided you're running a good shop).

Anything to take away customers from people who have no business modding cars is OK in my books.

That said, I somewhat agree with Hondaracer - tuning scene is pretty much dead.

[Cman333]

Taking away business from the other locak business is not something that I (or anyone opening a business) should consider as a good business plan.

I do agree on these points but I also seem to see a lot of people who are unhappy with the local offerings and look for alternatives. I know every shop will have there bad experiences be it a customer problem or a shop problem.

In the business that I am in now we make money based on the fact that we offer service and quality that no one can match locally. All our products sell at full retail price and our customers are glad to pay that with the product support and knowledge we offer.
If I were to open a shop I would want to use my experience here as model for a business going forward.


Personally being in the industry I'd say no unless you have enough capital to start from scratch and survive. You may have a few people pay MSRP, but those are few and far between. If you REALLY think in our economy you can convince ALL your customers to pay MSRP you haven't been in the industry long enough. Once you give one person a special price, you've basically ripped off another. People are spending less on their cars, ordering online for the cheapest prices, and alot of the time DIY. I'd say mass majority of the tuning scene is under the age of 25 which is NOT an ideal target market mainly because they're not at the height of their careers and paying off loans. So convincing a financially struggling student to pay MSRP will be impossible.

Unless you have a very special "niche", I'm not too sure you'll want to start a shop in a failing economy and most importantly a dying scene. Unless you have millions, you won't be able to compete with US pricing.

I think there's a market to tune supercars here. But you'd have to be a VERY experienced mechanic.

[Glove]

if the tuning scene is "dying" per se,

why are there no shops dying with it?

Even the god awfull ones are still in business somehow.

Where did this perception of the scene dying come from?

especially with aircare calling it quits in 2014, I can only imagine the scene is going to increase drastically.


Ofcourse rival shops are going to tell you not to open one, its competition for them and even more price matching / price wars which reduces their income.

hell if I had capital I'd do it just to finally open up a decent shop and take everyones overpriced business away.

[smoothie.]

^^

good luck

[Gridlock]

For my post, I think there's still a lot of people into cars, but are we really seeing the mass dollars dropped that once were?

Let's face facts, in order to survive, you need to have hoards of kids with a hand-me-down civic saying "over night that shit from Japan" to fill in your shops time in between the higher end cars.

There is still a car scene, and given that there has been since the 50's, I don't think its going away anytime soon, but that big rush of import rockets is not what it once was.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm quite happy to have a hobby that isn't on the news every second day.

[Tapioca]

On a macro-level, improving engineering and electronics have made gains from tuning stock cars negligible. Also, look where the growth in cars is in the Lower Mainland - luxury cars. If you want to modify your car, you'll likely void your warranty and any free scheduled maintenance. And if you were willing to void your warranty to put a supercharger on your inline six, you'd go for the cheapest route possible since the majority of new luxury car buyers these days are Asian.

When I was in my 20s, modifying Japanese cars was the thing to do because they were cheap and plentiful. Now used Euros (such as an E36 BMW) have finally reached the bottom of the depreciation curve. Why would I buy a rusted out 90s Integra or Civic for 2 grand when I can pick up an E36 for 4 grand which is inherently more fun to drive and has the badge to impress all the chicks?

[BoostedBB6]

The idea is open to interpritation, but for the tuning market it would be geared towards the higher end clients (ie M3's, M5's, AMG's ect) but not limited to those.

I know there are a tone of other people out there that take a simple Honda Civic and do AMAZING things with it so it would be open to that as well.

Not the kind of shop you would come to for a simple tune up or brake job.

[Yodamaster]

There is room for more if you can bring a new and exciting product to the market, otherwise you're just another brick in the wall selling Rota's and Recaros.

Design something that people really want that isn't already there, something that people constantly have to fabricate on their own to make something work.

That is how you can exist in the local tuning scene, along side custom fabrication such as what Blitzkrieg or 360 do.



To be completely honest, shops that cater to bolt ons alone are the ones that are most likely to fail, you have to offer up some pretty spectacular skills to truly be part of the local hoopla. Vancouver is the location of a lot of world class engineering, design, and fabrication, whether it's catering to cabinetry or cars, what you have to do is keep up.

[Gridlock]

To be completely honest, shops that cater to bolt ons alone are the ones that are most likely to fail, you have to offer up some pretty spectacular skills to truly be part of the local hoopla. Vancouver is the location of a lot of world class engineering, design, and fabrication, whether it's catering to cabinetry or cars, what you have to do is keep up.

So true. Our manufacturing isn't big at all, but varied and very well done. I personally think its the combination of easy asian access with multi-cultural connections. We have a wide and varied skill set bringing new techniques from everywhere.

In renos, I have met a lot of people that are doing some very creative things right here. The only problem is you never get to hear about them.

A friend of mine was fairly big in making custom car parts and we go into a few different shops and walk in expecting to see a standard garage and one is "here's where we custom build the frame for the electric car, and assembly is here" and another shop working on a high efficiency gas engine. You drive past the shops everyday and have no idea.

[bcrdukes]

Not the kind of shop you would come to for a simple tune up or brake job.

Why would you want to neglect this market?

What are you going to do when the slow season creeps around the corner or when people are taking their winter projects out to the track?

Maintenance is essential and these customers are your bread and butter. Without them, I'm not sure how you will survive. You can cherry pick your customers/clientele but ignoring basic maintenance is a little farfetched.

[godwin]

There are always room for shops. The question is not whether there is room but are there better business / opportunities?

If you want to be and have the resources to be an owner.. think about the revenue. Right off the bat, you will loose out on mail order services from the US. So you are stuck with servicing / labour related work, Since cars aren't exactly small you need space. Real estate is expensive in Lower Mainland, you have to move the cars through quickly, so it is either small jobs or cut corners. Then you have to worry about city taxes, bylaws and insurance. That's not counting the issues with people complaining about your pricing etc etc.

From a purely business perspective, there are higher margin business than working on cars. From that perspective, (discounting customer loyalty etc) Lower Mainland is saturated.

There are plenty of smaller hot rod shops in the Valley from Langley out to Abbotsford. Princess Auto usually gives away a free magazine that covers them. They are usually low key and the demographics are older.. vs the tuner scene. They are usually market themselves via word of mouth. They don't market themselves like attention grabbing teenagers.

If you have the money and what do mess with cars, don't start a business. Just spend your money on a private garage with plenty of good tools. Plenty of people have large spreads out in Maple Ridge .. Langley etc that have huge garages can even accommodate paint booths etc. Get a hobby farm on ALR land and go nuts if you want. If you are doing it because you are limited by career choices, well you have make the best out of your vocation, so good luck.

[BoostedBB6]

There is room for more if you can bring a new and exciting product to the market, otherwise you're just another brick in the wall selling Rota's and Recaros.

Design something that people really want that isn't already there, something that people constantly have to fabricate on their own to make something work.

That is how you can exist in the local tuning scene, along side custom fabrication such as what Blitzkrieg or 360 do.



To be completely honest, shops that cater to bolt ons alone are the ones that are most likely to fail, you have to offer up some pretty spectacular skills to truly be part of the local hoopla. Vancouver is the location of a lot of world class engineering, design, and fabrication, whether it's catering to cabinetry or cars, what you have to do is keep up.

Indeed this is true and there may still be room for this in our current state and with the existing car culture we have here.

Why would you want to neglect this market?

What are you going to do when the slow season creeps around the corner or when people are taking their winter projects out to the track?

Maintenance is essential and these customers are your bread and butter. Without them, I'm not sure how you will survive. You can cherry pick your customers/clientele but ignoring basic maintenance is a little farfetched.

It would not be ignored, it is that it is already taken care of. The general servicing would be taken care of by the other side of the business (which is already established and been so for over 20 years now).
With the types of cars that are being worked on currently there is no need to "cherry pick" our customers.

There are always room for shops. The question is not whether there is room but are there better business / opportunities?

If you want to be and have the resources to be an owner.. think about the revenue. Right off the bat, you will loose out on mail order services from the US. So you are stuck with servicing / labour related work, Since cars aren't exactly small you need space. Real estate is expensive in Lower Mainland, you have to move the cars through quickly, so it is either small jobs or cut corners. City taxes, bylaws and insurance. That's not counting the issues with people complaining about your pricing etc etc.

From a purely business perspective, there are higher margin business than working on cars. From that perspective, (discounting customer loyalty etc) Lower Mainland is saturated.

There are plenty of smaller hot rod shops in the Valley from Langley out to Abbotsford. Princess Auto usually gives away a free magazine that covers them. They are usually low key and the demographics are older.. vs the tuner scene. They are usually market themselves via word of mouth.

If you have the money and what do mess with cars, don't start a business. Just spend your money on a private garage with plenty of good tools. Plenty of people have large spreads out in Maple Ridge .. Langley etc that have huge garages can even accommodate paint booths etc. If you are doing it because you are limited by career choices, well you have make the best out of your vocation, so good luck.

Well put.

[Tapioca]

The idea is open to interpritation, but for the tuning market it would be geared towards the higher end clients (ie M3's, M5's, AMG's ect) but not limited to those.

I know there are a tone of other people out there that take a simple Honda Civic and do AMAZING things with it so it would be open to that as well.

Not the kind of shop you would come to for a simple tune up or brake job.

Maybe I'm naïve, but I would think that street legal gains at the very high end of the luxury market are very hard to come by unless you completely re-engineer driveline components. Perhaps re-programming software is the key these days and if you could market such gains, then there may be a market (although limited.) Perhaps I spend too much time downtown (which is full if M-cars and AMGs), but people who buy such cars would rather be seen driving in them as opposed to having them in a shop for track duty.

As far as Civics go, I'm sure there are people who spend money on them, but these days (considering their worth), enthusiasts would rather put their own time in as opposed to paying a shop. If I had the money to spend on modifications, I'd put them into a car with some cache as opposed to a Civic.

[godwin]

That brings up another good point.. cheap tools and proliferation with knowledge. In the past a good set of tools are couple hundred bucks, now it is hundred dollars+ (see the Snapon vs Mastercraft / craftsman argument).. pretty much simple tools can be made and bought cheaply. With Youtube etc.. people can follow how to do their own work.

Even "exotic" cars like Porsche's PIWIS Fiat/Ferrari ST scanners can be had.. so that adds extra pressure.

To really modify modern high end cars ECU mapping, you need to have access to high end cars as a test bed, good working knowledge of FPGA. That's just to get access past the encryption protocols of the ECUs, before the mapping etc. Granted things like that doesn't really need much space (you can also get tax credit for the car), but the knowledge required, people usually get better paid jobs than working in a garage.


As far as Civics go, I'm sure there are people who spend money on them, but these days (considering their worth), enthusiasts would rather put their own time in as opposed to paying a shop. If I had the money to spend on modifications, I'd put them into a car with some cache as opposed to a Civic.

[Cman333]

if the tuning scene is "dying" per se,

why are there no shops dying with it?

Even the god awfull ones are still in business somehow.

Where did this perception of the scene dying come from?

especially with aircare calling it quits in 2014, I can only imagine the scene is going to increase drastically.


Ofcourse rival shops are going to tell you not to open one, its competition for them and even more price matching / price wars which reduces their income.

hell if I had capital I'd do it just to finally open up a decent shop and take everyones overpriced business away.


There have been many shops dying with it. There are no "car shows" with big sponsors anymore. Why is that? Because the scene is growing? Aircare is the least of any tuners issues. You deal with it once every 2 years.

If you had the capital I welcome you to open a shop to take everyone's "overpriced" business away. You obviously have not thought this out and have no idea on the industry and the overhead required. If your idea was great I'm sure you could easily get backing from any bank/family/friends. We can all talk the talk. But would you risk 6 figures to do so? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what you're saying entirely wrong. Just saying if you opened up this amazing shop that costs tons of money to build, do you really think you could survive by being the cheapest?

OP, was thinking he could offer even better service and charge full MSRP. Glove with your mentality you've already proven it won't work because he's wanting to charge more then the average for his "expertise".

[MindBomber]

A long, but worthwhile read (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2267900) for someone considering opening a shop that specializes in modifying cars. It chronicles the opening of the shop, it's success and eventual failure, highlighting many of the issues that one would expect to encounter. The shop found brief success through offering extremely high quality work, but prices reflected the quality and the average person who modifies car was more interested in price. Roll cages were a sticking point for the owner at one point if memory serves, because while he built great cages for $2500, wannabe drifters in rusty 240s were unwilling to pay the premium when cheap shops could build one for $800. The biggest regret the owner expressed towards the end of the thread was never taking producing parts more seriously. There's a limited number of serious enthusiasts in any given local market, by producing parts and selling them you can access many other markets. K-Tuned (Canada, Honda k-series engine parts) and AMR Engineering (Seattle, made to order coilovers for various makes, chassises) are excellent examples of shops finding great success in relatively limited markets by producing parts. Just my 0.02 cents.

[Cman333]

The idea is open to interpritation, but for the tuning market it would be geared towards the higher end clients (ie M3's, M5's, AMG's ect) but not limited to those.

I know there are a tone of other people out there that take a simple Honda Civic and do AMAZING things with it so it would be open to that as well.

Not the kind of shop you would come to for a simple tune up or brake job.

One thing is liability. Do you actually have the technical know how to deal with these types of cars? Or are you just planning on doing basic bolt on's. So you'd be competing with SR Auto, Designo, CG, etc etc.

If you plan on charging MSRP and doing bolt on type of stuff what can you offer better then your competition (ie. SR Auto). Or if you're more on the mechanical side of life can you say you're more credible then say CG?

A simple tune up and or brake job is your bread and butter, so now you wouldn't even want to do those jobs?

Remember BIG jobs don't pay hourly. You won't be able to charge someone $90/hour for every single hour you've worked on the car. You'll put in two weeks and maybe get 1 weeks worth of actual money out of it. Also you're not going to get a customer walking in every week to install a supercharger, so what type of business do you plan on drawing in to keep your mechanics busy and paid?

Anyways, this could go on forever. I think you need to actually do up a business plan, decide how much you plan on investing, location, how much you plan to pay yourself/mechanics/etc, how you plan on marketing, what tools you need (hoists, scanners, tools, welding, pipe bending, dyno, etc etc.).

I've started, ran, opened, shut down, worked for MANY different smaller and bigger companies in similar industries. Boyz Audio, Axis Audio, Cartunes, Ralphs, Valley Toys, Synergy, Rise and work in line with many other tuner companies also. So in my personal opinion, if you don't have access to 300k (which is low already), you won't be stealing the competition away.

If you're just farming out work to different shops, ordering parts from the same suppliers, and doing basic performance bolt ons you're not different from most of the shops out there.

[godwin]

I would argue AirCare has been giving a lot of "car shops" plenty of business over the years.. now with OBD2 and limp mode, people probably just get by driving in limp mode all the time when the CEL is on.

There have been many shops dying with it. There are no "car shows" with big sponsors anymore. Why is that? Because the scene is growing? Aircare is the least of any tuners issues. You deal with it once every 2 years.

[Cman333]

I would argue AirCare has been giving a lot of "car shops" plenty of business over the years.. now with OBD2 and limp mode, people probably just get by driving in limp mode all the time when the CEL is on.

Nothing to argue. You're right. Aircare helps generate business for us. If you build a "race" car that you drive on the road you don't tend to worry about air care. You build the car, then when the air care time comes, you deal with it after.

Once they get rid of air care I don't expect everyone to run in and buy an exhaust system and turbo their car. I expect to lose the customers that came to us to help detune their car and get past air care, then come back and retune it.

[Glove]

There have been many shops dying with it. There are no "car shows" with big sponsors anymore. Why is that? Because the scene is growing? Aircare is the least of any tuners issues. You deal with it once every 2 years.

If you had the capital I welcome you to open a shop to take everyone's "overpriced" business away. You obviously have not thought this out and have no idea on the industry and the overhead required. If you're idea was great I'm sure you could easily get backing from any bank/family/friends.

OP, was thinking he could offer even better service and charge full MSRP. Glove with your mentality you've already proven it won't work because he's wanting to charge more then the average for his "expertise".


Why are there no car shows anymore? Il tell you why, because they have been trash for the last 10 years. Although not directly related to OPs thread. Our car shows have no alcohol, no strippers, no dancing, and a lot of family activities, and 20 tv's in one trunk. That shit is boring and useless for any demographic and no one wants to see it.

Why does the RS meet get so much attention and sponsorship? Because its not gay, thats why. We get to see real cars done by local people and they are practical. That is the taste we have here in BC, not 6 15" subs and a playstation in the glove box.

If the market is dying, why is your shop still open? You must be making some sort of profit. OP can difectly compete with you and take half your business, and thats how it should be, more competition the better.

Unfortunatly i cant argue the shop point because i have no capital and cant do it.

Canada as a whole has this stupid idea that businesses and services should be protected in some way, the Big 3 wont allow new cellular services, massive taxation on imported goods, so they want you to buy locally, and not to mention icbc, hydro and everything. I say open the fuckin floodgates already and get everyone to compete, lower the damn prices on everything, then maybe we wouldnt be in this cluster fuck of a mess we call our tuning community.

80 dollars an hour to work on a car is criminal, maybe the shop rent needs to be lower, or maybe the insurance, i dont know, but if there was more competition in those area's, overall costs would be lower, and the consumer wouldnt hafto eat these rediculous rates. And that goes for any market.

[Hondaracer]

in terms of the "scene dieing" imo you have 3 types of car enthusiasts

the hardcore tuner who does all his own work, drives across the border to get his own parts, finds the best possible sources for parts and tools, and has little need of anyone other than them self

then you have the person who pays to have work done on their car, pays shop premium for parts, and puts a good chunk of their money into a hobby, but even these people are finding that parts can be had for much cheaper via Ebay etc than any shop loyalty discount anymore

Then you have the high end of the spectrum, your luxury/exotic market, which only a few shops and people have the money and commitment to own and operate such a garage, and even places like these are subject to huge eb's and flows

IMO you would be WAYYYY better off just opening a regular maintenance/oil change/drivetrain shop dealing with every day vehicles rather than trying to target the small, and decreasing market for Tuners..

the days of friends modding cars and having little mini-meets, cruising around and doing freeway pulls are -over-, when i see a group of guys with beat up 240's in a parking lot showing eachother their pink and purple rims, that shit is fucking donezoes son, and the "scene" with it.

[Glove]

Nothing to argue. You're right. Aircare helps generate business for us. If you build a "race" car that you drive on the road you don't tend to worry about air care. You build the car, then when the air care time comes, you deal with it after.

Once they get rid of air care I don't expect everyone to run in and buy an exhaust system and turbo their car. I expect to lose the customers that came to us to help detune their car and get past air care, then come back and retune it.

That in itself should be considered theft,

you are getting revenue from a person due to a government mandate, that forces people not to have a faulty windshield wiper otherwise they will get a CEL and not pass aircare, thus you get money to fix it.

That money should not be yours, it should not be a guaranteed income, of people who need to use their cars, that work perfectly fine, because they need to pay hundreds of dollars for a fix, just to insure their cars to get to work, just to pay you more to fix their car 2 years later.

what a scam

I am so glad aircare will be gone, the revenue generated from it being syphoned from the public needs to stop.

[Cman333]

If the market is dying, why is your shop still open? You must be making some sort of profit. OP can difectly compete with you and take half your business, and thats how it should be, more competition the better.


80 dollars an hour to work on a car is criminal, maybe the shop rent needs to be lower, or maybe the insurance, i dont know, but if there was more competition in those area's, overall costs would be lower, and the consumer wouldnt hafto eat these rediculous rates. And that goes for any market.

It's open, does that mean business has gone up? Dying means business is drying up. I didn't say dead or zero business. The market is definitely not growing. Nor is the market big.

$80/hour I agree is brutal to pay, but you don't factor in how expensive rent is at any commercial place, let alone insurance, let alone the tools. A hoist is like 10k, a pipe bender couple k, welder couple k, tools 10k+, shop materials, garbage disposal, cardboard disposal, CREDIT CARD FEE's, CREDIT CARD MACHINE RENTAL, HYDRO, building/fire inspections, (commercial costs more), HST, INCOME TAX, Internet, telephone, SALARIES, advertising. Remember most shops are just regular blue collar dudes....

If rent wasn't so brutal I'm sure most shops could afford to charge less. I can't say I know many rich mechanics or tuners that weren't well off to begin with. Make a enough to survive, but don't think $80/h we take hour $80. I don't see many mechanics make enough to buy themselves a nice new CL63.

Again, I know you haven't spent the time to research and are just assuming things. If you think you can do it, by all means just spend a few hours researching to open your eyes a bit. Otherwise, all you're doing is talking with zero credibility and criticizing the people in the industry as thieves.
I say open the fuckin floodgates already and get everyone to compete, lower the damn prices on everything, then maybe we wouldnt be in this cluster fuck of a mess we call our tuning community.


LOL

So why do we stop at american prices. Fuckit, why don't we just sell straight at china manufacturer prices? I'm sick of paying ten fucking bucks for some shit $0.25 fast food meal and $25 + tax + 20% grat at some mainstream line cooked BS resturant. Can buy bottle of booze for fucking $10 but have to pay $40 in Canada. Fuck the government. Let's just overthrow them and eliminate MONEY. And everyone can be equal, and we should eradicate free thought and books. FUCKIT. I should just take over the fucking world.

Serious note. Move to the states then you're problem is dealt with. Fact of the matter is, YOU LIVE IN CANADA. DEAL WITH IT. Do you see Americans whining about Mexican pricing? They're just across their border too.

[white rocket]

You have to be unique to survive and to do that you have to offer quality custom fabrication and/or the R&D and development of part; both of which cost a LOT of money to start-up. Just my $0.02.

[Glove]

It's open, does that mean business has gone up? Dying means business is drying up. I didn't say dead or zero business. The market is definitely not growing. Nor is the market big.

$80/hour I agree is brutal to pay, but you don't factor in how expensive rent is at any commercial place, let alone insurance, let alone the tools. A hoist is like 10k, a pipe bender couple k, welder couple k, tools 10k+, shop materials, garbage disposal, cardboard disposal, CREDIT CARD FEE's, CREDIT CARD MACHINE RENTAL, HYDRO, building/fire inspections, (commercial costs more), HST, INCOME TAX, Internet, telephone, SALARIES, advertising. Remember most shops are just regular blue collar dudes....

If rent wasn't so brutal I'm sure most shops could afford to charge less. I can't say I know many rich mechanics or tuners that weren't well off to begin with. Make a enough to survive, but don't think $80/h we take hour $80. I don't see many mechanics make enough to buy themselves a nice new CL63.

Again, I know you haven't spent the time to research and are just assuming things. If you think you can do it, by all means just spend a few hours researching to open your eyes a bit. Otherwise, all you're doing is talking with zero credibility and criticizing the people in the industry as thieves.


LOL

So why do we stop at american prices. Fuckit, why don't we just sell straight at china manufacturer prices? I'm sick of paying ten fucking bucks for some shit $0.25 fast food meal and $25 + tax + 20% grat at some mainstream line cooked BS resturant. Can buy bottle of booze for fucking $10 but have to pay $40 in Canada. Fuck the government. Let's just overthrow them and eliminate MONEY. And everyone can be equal, and we should eradicate free thought and books. FUCKIT. I should just take over the fucking world.

Serious note. Move to the states then you're problem is dealt with. Fact of the matter is, YOU LIVE IN CANADA. DEAL WITH IT. Do you see Americans whining about Mexican pricing?

Yes exactly!

Shops cant charge less because operation costs are so high,

but thats exactly why there are so many DIY and backyard mechanics nowadays, people just cant afford it anymore.

Thats why the scene seems dead, but in reality the scene is as strong at ever, its just no one is going to shops anymore, too expensive, and quality of work is no better than DIY.

its all a product of what happening out there, shit is too expensive, services are too expensive, how is a person supposed to make 9 dollars an hour and afford a brake job? they cant.

My furnace broke during the winter, and I fixed it myself using google and youtube, because I couldnt afford the retarded 200 dollar service fee for the furnace place.

Im saying open up the market,

the insurance will be cheaper,
parts will be cheaper,
equipment will be cheaper,
rent will be cheaper,
utilities will be cheaper,

costs to the consumer will be cheaper.

ect ect...

if we keep going down this route everyone will be out of business, and everyone will DIY everything.

[eurochevy]

honestly mom and pop mechanic shops are making more money now more than ever i would say ..performance shops as stated either shops arn't actually that good (personally i think a lot of "performance shops" around here are really half ass stuff i can do at home myself)..not many ppl "tune" their cars as much as before ..2 its very hard to get a reputation unless you previously have worked at a performance shop / have lots of experience... you need sale experience / good shop layout etc and once again as stated before the tuning scene is dieing..most ppl just do rims / tires..maybe a lip kit and a couple other small things..not really much to be made IMO any more..mom and pop shops everyone takes their car to now because it gets the job done still for like half the cost of a dealership for same result not to mention better customer service than dealerships

[TurboFC3S]

Yep $80 seems steep but my friends overhead for his shop in total was 6 grand a month and he worked by himself.. Shop was in richmond

unless you can Tune / Fabricate cages/exhaust/intercooler piping etc. / wire / wrench on whatever your target vehicle market is its probably not worth the shot..

Theres a few small shops around that have only 1 or 2 guys working there who can do all those things and they make aloooot of money. But you have to be really good and get known for that to happen!

Also having a dyno is a must for the kind of shop you are interested in opening, and dynos cost 30G+ usually, a engine dyno would be a great asset since not many shops in the lower mainland have one, but those are super expensive lol. Having a dyno would be a big bonus though since its so useful, could also rent it out for amatures to tune their cars etc. and have cheap dyno day every 2 weeks :P

[Glove]

LOL

So why do we stop at american prices. Fuckit, why don't we just sell straight at china manufacturer prices? I'm sick of paying ten fucking bucks for some shit $0.25 fast food meal and $25 + tax + 20% grat at some mainstream line cooked BS resturant. Can buy bottle of booze for fucking $10 but have to pay $40 in Canada. Fuck the government. Let's just overthrow them and eliminate MONEY. And everyone can be equal, and we should eradicate free thought and books. FUCKIT. I should just take over the fucking world.

Serious note. Move to the states then you're problem is dealt with. Fact of the matter is, YOU LIVE IN CANADA. DEAL WITH IT. Do you see Americans whining about Mexican pricing? They're just across their border too.


Nice, very mature.

Representing rise auto salon.



If OPs target market is high ends, i think theres a good market for it. If he's targetting civics and dsm's, dont think it will work because these people cant afford 80 bucks an hour

[godwin]

If it is just opening for competition is the easy solution.. Wind etc will be making a killing.. the problem is not with competition but the cost building the towers. It just cost a whole heck of lot/user for providers, with every change in standard you need to put in new higher density towers. With all the NIMBYS in Vancouver, you just can't get that new tower agreements out of people.. if you imagine trouble of putting in smart meters, negotiating cell towers are 100x worse.

Vancouver is at the end of the West coast supply chain and the chain itself is already 1/2 that of the East coast one.. when you see BC produce cheaper in places like New York or Toronto. You will realize it is not our tax policies but we just don't have that high population density to sustain the economy of scale, it just cost that much more to do business in Western Canada due to small volume.

We can change that and we are changing that by having in more immigrants.. which like it or not love Vancouver.. and are allegedly driving up our real estate prices and population density. It will make things cheaper on the long run. (except for rent of course).

Honestly $80/hour is not that bad comparable to the rest of the world.. even in the US. We don't have MOT inspection like in Europe or Asia, we don't need an engineer to certify our cars and our mods are street legal every year (Australia). Also our tax regime is not that bad either.. compared with Europe where 20% - 40% VAT is the norm... (not to mention income).. we are paying peanuts.

If you don't like Vancouver so much.. why don't you just http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/245.gif? We won't miss ya.


Canada as a whole has this stupid idea that businesses and services should be protected in some way, the Big 3 wont allow new cellular services, massive taxation on imported goods, so they want you to buy locally, and not to mention icbc, hydro and everything. I say open the fuckin floodgates already and get everyone to compete, lower the damn prices on everything, then maybe we wouldnt be in this cluster fuck of a mess we call our tuning community.

[godwin]

Why would it be considered theft? The people went to CMan333 for a service, they also paid HST for it. Our aircare is not displacement based.

We needed Aircare to force car manufacturer to tighten up the rule, which they did and added limp mode.. Places like California has smog check too.. Like I had said above. North America has the slackest car check mandate in the developed world.

That in itself should be considered theft,

you are getting revenue from a person due to a government mandate, that forces people not to have a faulty windshield wiper otherwise they will get a CEL and not pass aircare, thus you get money to fix it.

That money should not be yours, it should not be a guaranteed income, of people who need to use their cars, that work perfectly fine, because they need to pay hundreds of dollars for a fix, just to insure their cars to get to work, just to pay you more to fix their car 2 years later.

what a scam

I am so glad aircare will be gone, the revenue generated from it being syphoned from the public needs to stop.

[Yodamaster]

It's a shame, I see skilled workers being laid off from mechanic's shops simply because of overhead and how much a simple brake job costs because of it.

For example, my dad went to a shop to see how much one new rotor and calipers were for our S10, $500.

I went and bought the parts and installed them myself overnight so that my dad could have the truck for work the next day, and it only cost $250 + my time.


I feel guilty, yet I don't, yet I do. Simply because I know what it's like at a shop, yet I know what it's like to have $250 taken from any of our monthly budgets at home.

What it comes down to is people that know (and have the space+tools) vs. people that don't, and luckily for me I did, so I saved 250 bucks.

It's a two way street for everyone, a little fucked up.

[Cman333]

Nice, very mature.

Representing rise auto salon.



Was a joke. Based on your logic behind what you said. Same shit you said, different context.

Point is, there's alot more to it then "opening the floodgates". I really don't feel like getting into this topic anymore because it will go on forever, we're so off the original topic anyways.

Again, don't disagree with you. I hate paying $80 an hour for anything just as much as anyone else does. Unfortunately this is the way it is in modern day society.

[FerrariEnzo]

If your going to open one... Do it right... tailor it to HIGH end or exotics.. dont do low ends like honda civics.. you will find yourself out of business... Lots of mainlanders have money to spend.. but NOT on hondas and toyotas...


you gotta spend money to make money.. if you do want to do it.. you gotta get your name out.. what better way then to get a nice high car and slap on your company logo.. not on some beater civics or crap...

[Psykopathik]

^^^

he has the right idea.

After working in a in one of the first local shops for a few years I've seen it all.

you need to set you sights on your demographic. ricers or mid or luxury cars. you cant do it all.

if you are in the low end (Ricer) you will fail. cheap customers wanting the stars and want it all for next to nothing. you end up buying from local distributors that even sell to consumers out the front door. how can you even compete? tons of customers but too many ricer shops undercutting each other. don't bother. poor Kids/students are your customers

Mid end. do actual mechanical work and stress quality service and reasonable prices. carry good quality products. word of mouth will get you repeat customers. good customer service keeps em coming back, even if you're not the cheapest. I believe this is the sweet spot. do not compromise on service or quality and don't be afraid to turn customers away or politely refer them to a ricer shop. I value customer service and will pay more for it. working adults are your customers

High end. (luxury etc) make whopping profits of customers that have $ to burn. seriously. they don't care. keep em happy. fix every little issue they have. its a gravy train. however, customers are fewer and turnover of products slower. initial investment is very high. Rich folk are your customers.

that said, is the scene dead. yeah, i think so.

there will always be a need, but not like it was 10 years ago. that was a fucking gong show.

[Gridlock]

A long, but worthwhile read (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2267900) for someone considering opening a shop that specializes in modifying cars. It chronicles the opening of the shop, it's success and eventual failure, highlighting many of the issues that one would expect to encounter. The shop found brief success through offering extremely high quality work, but prices reflected the quality and the average person who modifies car was more interested in price. Roll cages were a sticking point for the owner at one point if memory serves, because while he built great cages for $2500, wannabe drifters in rusty 240s were unwilling to pay the premium when cheap shops could build one for $800. The biggest regret the owner expressed towards the end of the thread was never taking producing parts more seriously. There's a limited number of serious enthusiasts in any given local market, by producing parts and selling them you can access many other markets. K-Tuned (Canada, Honda k-series engine parts) and AMR Engineering (Seattle, made to order coilovers for various makes, chassises) are excellent examples of shops finding great success in relatively limited markets by producing parts. Just my 0.02 cents.

I read though all 58 pages(skipping all the 'wow, ur so great' posts) and just focusing on the business posts.

This is THE read for anyone considering opening a shop in anything automotive related.

He had everything going for him...money bags father in law, supportive gf and the guy was super talented.

And he got it wrong. He got so focused on the next weld and the next manifold that he let the big picture slide. He was busting ass making signature pieces as one-offs that he completely neglected the idea that there was a market for more reasonably priced products that could be made faster(and cheaper) that would have allowed him to pick and choose what 'signature pieces' were worthy of his personal attention.

In the end, he came across as arrogant and unresponsive to customers as he was very much trying to sell his version of what they 'should' want that he forgot to listen to what they 'did' want.

He spent 2 years working for free, and I think the 3rd year probably at minimal pay. He was drained and exhausted.

[i-VTEC]

If your going to open one... Do it right... tailor it to HIGH end or exotics.. dont do low ends like honda civics.. you will find yourself out of business... Lots of mainlanders have money to spend.. but NOT on hondas and toyotas...


you gotta spend money to make money.. if you do want to do it.. you gotta get your name out.. what better way then to get a nice high car and slap on your company logo.. not on some beater civics or crap...

Half true, for a business, never target certain category of people, thus you are limiting your customer, unless you know there are a lot of customers in that category

I'm not sure if there are X amount people with High ends greater than X amount people with Low end cars.

You can mostly focus on high end cars, but you never say, no to anything. In other words, if your shop can fit 10 customers per day, it is unlikely that all 10 customers have high end cars, but instead schedule 7 or 8 out of 10 with High end cars, and take 2 or 3 low end cars as breaks since its easy

Edit

Same goes to Telus/Rogers/Bell or any other company, they don't limit themselves with ONLY super smart phones, therefore not limiting to specific category even tho that category is huge. All of them have and carry non smartphones.

Why does Telus needs Koodo, Why does Rogers bought Fido, Why does Bell needs Solo Mobile

Because Koodo, Fido , Sole Mobile is still Telus Rogers Bell, respectively, and they target different category of people.

Don't tell me Rogers can survive well without Fido

Also

A customer is a customer, doesn't matter what they drive now, it can all change. All shops build from reputation and relationship with the customers and also refer. They drive lower end cars in University needs car service, then after they graduated and is able to afford Bimmer, now if the shop they have always been to for their lower end car service, guess what? they will likely to choose the same shop for their higher end car.

Since there are so many businesses and shops, never limit yourself, just like why do people who speaks multiple languages would get a job easier than those who can only speak one? Languages are your assets and every type of customers are assets too

Correct me if I'm wrong, there is no way that there is any shop that is always busy 365 days with everyone coming in with their high end cars for service

In order to survive, when other people say no, you say yes.

[dangonay]

Correct me if I'm wrong, there is no way that there is any shop that is always busy 365 days with everyone coming in with their high end cars for service
Last shop I worked for (Silk Cat) was exactly like this. Always busy, and with a large portion of that business being high-end cars.

I think the only way to succeed as a tuning shop is not to open a tuning shop at all. Start an honest, reliable and quality automotive service shop. Do your tuning/modding as a secondary (gravy) business.

For example, we had steady service business that paid all the bills and allowed the owner to make a comfortable living. On top of these regular customers we took on project cars like full-on restorations of classic Jaguars. We would have 1 or 2 in the shop all the time and they often took months (or longer) to complete. These cars were "filler" cars, worked on to use up available spare time when you're not doing all the regular service business.

Technically, since the regular service customers paid all the bills, you could work on these cars as a "hobby" since you don't need the income. Of course, no business is going to do work for free, but you can apply this another way: by doing outstanding work.

Since you don't make a living with these project cars, you can take your time to do work that is "over and above" what's expected. Maybe a job takes 20 hours and you bill the customer 20 hours. But you actually spent 25 hours on the job because you looked after some extra "detail work". Everyone wins. You used up free shop time to bill out 20 hours extra labour over your regular business. The customer is happy when they see the job you did (and, of course, you're going to point out the few extra things you did and didn't charge them for).


There's only one big problem with this business model: It takes years to build up regular clientele and get a shop to this stage where you're making a good living. Most shops (like any small business) will fail.

[i-VTEC]

Awesome then that is a successful shop and other shops could learn something from

When you say "a large portion" meaning 80%? while 20%? is probably lower end cars, thus, you can't never label yourself "High End Cars Only"

What about doing winter seasons? Do people still drive their lambo, r8, in snows? or heavy rain? Not to mention, stupid drivers could hit your car, but the salt on the road will hurt your exterior.

Every type of business has their limit, for cars, it can be seasonal. Thus, you can't limit yourself anymore

Being unique is important, but depends on how many customers you can receive from it. By providing broad services to any cars, you have more customers, more refer to make a big name of your shop. But it doesn't means that you accept everyone. Like I purpose, if you can schedule 10 customer per day, 7 being high end cars, and 3 low end + squeeze 1 or 2 extra low end cars since doesn't require that much of detail and less work.

And i know it is not easy say then done, but it is sure a lot harder, by essentially saying Low End Cars :gtfo:

Sure if a company can keep up with being busy all year long with high end cars, but if talking 1 year 2 years 3 years? haha good luck with that prediction

[RHMadness]

Tim you should do it.
I would come to you :)

[Lomac]

"High end" cars don't necessarily have to mean brand new Lambo's or other supercars. There are just as many expensive cars being driven year round (higher range models from Audi/BMW/Merc/etc). Plus many older cars that were once $100k+ when new are still on the road and need "greater attention to detail" when being worked on. That's not to say that Joe's Garage down the road isn't capable of working on a 2001 M5, but chances are someone who specializes in luxury cars is going to be more familiar with them, thus a quicker turn around and access to certain tools that Joe's wont have.

A buddy of mine opened up a shop in Maple Ridge a year or two ago now. While his main clientele are the average person driving off the street, he also specializes in high end classic car restorations. He's got three 60's-era muscle cars, all with blank cheques that will ultimately end up costing each owner over $200,000 to do. Obviously these aren't the cars he works on all the time; as Dangonay said, they're cars that get worked on when there's downtime or when he's bored after work hours. That said, he's been working on bringing in customers by going above and beyond when it comes to customer service, and it shows by simply driving by the shop during the day; it's constantly full.

[FerrariEnzo]

You can mostly focus on high end cars, but you never say, no to anything. In other words, if your shop can fit 10 customers per day, it is unlikely that all 10 customers have high end cars, but instead schedule 7 or 8 out of 10 with High end cars, and take 2 or 3 low end cars as breaks since its easy

Correct me if I'm wrong, there is no way that there is any shop that is always busy 365 days with everyone coming in with their high end cars for service

In order to survive, when other people say no, you say yes.
While this is true from a business point of view..
But if your a Silver-Spoon born rich kid rolling around in a Maserati/Ferrari (or even SUVs, BMW....), would you go to a shop that tunes civics/corollas or a shop that only does high performance?

A shop for serious performance.. not for people who just want to get an exhaust or header done...


maybe during the winter time or offseason, you can do lower end cars or do some car servicing to get some revenue...

[Shorn]

i think blitzkrieg's business model works very well. kind of the type of custom fabrication/tuning you guys are talking about. as well as specializing in audi/vw/porsche.

[bcrdukes]

i think blitzkrieg's business model works very well. kind of the type of custom fabrication/tuning you guys are talking about. as well as specializing in audi/vw/porsche.

I was thinking Blitzkrieg the whole time.

You have a shop specializing in VAG/BMW/Porsche. Add to that, a skilled fabricator, tuner, VAG, BMW, and Porsche specialists with experience. Not to mention, a veteran with tonnes of track experience and race prep for P-cars.

Lots of cars come in for routine maintenance - old and new. Even the owner said it himself: "These customers are our bread and butter." They have customers who are much older and established who don't mind dropping good coin for the best products. They want to stand out. Why be like everybody else? Blitzkrieg has a market and they picked a good one.

Blitzkrieg rocks.

[i-VTEC]

While this is true from a business point of view..
But if your a Silver-Spoon born rich kid rolling around in a Maserati/Ferrari (or even SUVs, BMW....), would you go to a shop that tunes civics/corollas or a shop that only does high performance?

A shop for serious performance.. not for people who just want to get an exhaust or header done...


maybe during the winter time or offseason, you can do lower end cars or do some car servicing to get some revenue...

Ya there are probably special cases, but it doesn't means that you need those special case to survive with your business.

If a shop targets those special cases with little group of people, i will let them deal with it, while I have a bigger pool of fish I can grab. :)

If you are the "only" shop that say "High End Only" then you'll probably survive ok

However, if there is already something like that in town? not possible.

Since "Blitzkrieg" target high end cars, imagine if many more follows will cheaper pricing, now will Blitzkrieg survive? Will "all" the customers stay?

And this relates to OP's question, is there a room for one more shop.

I'm not sure but, I think all RS Vendor or other shop hope to have better and more business, but there are so just many competition. Yes here are cheap people around, me being for one, but its not like I wanted to or they wanted to. If I was super rich, heck for an oil change, i'll pay double or triple. When you are rich, you can throw money like that. But when money is tight, you look for deals and savings. If a business wants customers, they do whatever they can.

[BoostedBB6]

The reason why I ask this is because I have been offered the space and equipment to open up a shop.

Our body shop is closing down and we have a very large space, hoists, tools, ect ect that will go unused.
The service shop is thriving but it is more a general service and repair shop, not performance oriented.
Our current customer base is BMW, Mercedes, Audi customers (very high end cars and people who are not afraid of a decent size bill).
I am a Honda lover myself so I would like to find a way to open up to that area of the industry if I were to take these on.

I already have BMW, Mercedes and Audi/VQ factory trained techs. I have 2 guys who are absolutely AMAZING at fabrication and I also have a killer painter as well.

I will be sitting down over the weekend to come up with a business model for this and see if it works. This would not be the only source of income as it is part of a larger shop so seasonal work is ok, as are times when they get slow.

Thanks so much for the input guys, hugely appreciated.

[Glove]

^ do you have access to a paint booth??

I need to use!

[Lomac]

If it's going to be a side business for an already established, thriving shop, it may be worth pursuing. The thing is, however, what sort of clientele you already have? You say you get a lot of high end cars, but who are the owners? Are they the typical business, mid-40's types who just want a luxury car to drive and don't care about anything else? Or do you have customers who seem interested in modifying them? It's one thing to service an M5 to an existing cutsomer, but it's another to try and upsell the owner a chip reflash and a free flow exhaust to the same guy.

Just a thought.

That said, if you guys decide to liquidate the hardware in the bodyshop, let me know... I want a hoist! :D

[Cman333]

The reason why I ask this is because I have been offered the space and equipment to open up a shop.

Our body shop is closing down and we have a very large space, hoists, tools, ect ect that will go unused.
The service shop is thriving but it is more a general service and repair shop, not performance oriented.
Our current customer base is BMW, Mercedes, Audi customers (very high end cars and people who are not afraid of a decent size bill).
I am a Honda lover myself so I would like to find a way to open up to that area of the industry if I were to take these on.

I already have BMW, Mercedes and Audi/VQ factory trained techs. I have 2 guys who are absolutely AMAZING at fabrication and I also have a killer painter as well.

I will be sitting down over the weekend to come up with a business model for this and see if it works. This would not be the only source of income as it is part of a larger shop so seasonal work is ok, as are times when they get slow.

Thanks so much for the input guys, hugely appreciated.

If you already have a successful business and plan on adding the performance side of life to the existing business then I think you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

From your original post you sounded like you were starting from scratch and focussing strictly on performance. Really nothing has to change other then adding a few new suppliers to your list and maybe marketing your business differently.

[bcrdukes]

Since "Blitzkrieg" target high end cars, imagine if many more follows will cheaper pricing, now will Blitzkrieg survive? Will "all" the customers stay?

But cheaper doesn't mean better.

If I setup shop across the street from Blitzkrieg and offered labour at $65/hr but all I did was a hack job, how do you think I'm going to survive? Logically, where will those customers end up going back to?

Such clientele don't do absurd things like going to competitor XYZ because they are cheaper. You have a shop that takes good care of you and knows your car inside and out. Why take it to Joe Blow and risk nightmares?

[dee242]

instead of being cheaper i think it would be better if you allowed costumers to pay a certain amount of money every month

[BoostedBB6]

instead of being cheaper i think it would be better if you allowed costumers to pay a certain amount of money every month

Thats what credit cards are for.
I'm not in the business of handing out credit to people to have to deal with the hassle of trying to collect later.
Not interested in doing business with people who can not afford to pay to build/fix there vehicles.

The way it works now (and will continue to work) is if you cant pay your bill you don't get your car back.

On that note, if you cant afford to pay for the mods you are doing to your car then maybe a re-think of your priorities is in order....

The idea is sound, but unfortunately there will always be people who can not bay there bill and I do not want to deal with that.

[Gridlock]

I just don't get this "I'm going to tailor to high end" shit.

I don't know jack about the performance shop business...but I'm pretty good at guessing a balance sheet.

I do know renos. I can tell you that I didn't get to start my first day and say "$5 million houses only". I had no cred. I had to work a shitload of crap ass places for money that made baby jesus cry before I got a taste for real addresses. And then have the owner of said address tear you a new one because it wasn't up to their expectation. Fun day at work. Once I have a picture of me standing in front of the view from my first penthouse off stanley park just thrown without a care into the portfolio pictures, then it makes it easy to grab the next one.

You need a pile of work sitting there before you get to say "no thanks. I want to say I'm too good for you, but don't want to be an asshole."

[BoostedBB6]

It's simple, you don't target anyone directly, but if you can't afford the work you go somewhere else.

This whole idea is to use space and equipment I already have to offer a service. It's not a need, more of a want for myself.
I have the service side of things covered already, no need for any of that. We are a mainly Euro shop with a few exceptions, but we do not have any lower end cars come in because of the price. If people are looking for deals or such we just send them to other local shops.

We have enough work to be able to do this and focus on what we are food at and can do well. Our business is very focused. By doing this we are able to offer a better experience for our customers because of our knowledge on the vehicles they bring us.

What we would open here is a performance shop....not a service shop as we already have that.

[Noir]

^
I think what everyone is getting at is that you're giving off the vibes that you're already planning for Step Z, when you have yet to accomplish Step A, B, C, D and so forth.

I mean, yes you already have a shop that does car maintenance but you're also just looking to branch out for performance modding and already you're gunning for market's cream-of-the-crop clientele when you have yet to either work on, build a brand, gain a reputation, on even the lower spectrum of the market scale.

I mean, I wish all the luck to ya but so far what I can observe in your business plan is: you're already refusing business that you don't even have yet in the first place.



I think what Gridlock is saying is: It doesn't matter if you have a maintenance shop already. When you step into the business of performance modding, you still have to earn your way up. Just because your goal is on Step Z doesn't mean you can just gun straight for it and ignore the preceding steps before it.

[BoostedBB6]

Up to this point we have done a lot of performance work for our customers already. I just want a clear divider between the service ad performance side of things.

Our current clientele is already very high end and they are willing to spend the money (many have already).
But I hear what you guys are saying. Definitely will take that into consideration.

[Noir]

Up to this point we have done a lot of performance work for our customers already. I just want a clear divider between the service ad performance side of things.

Our current clientele is already very high end and they are willing to spend the money (many have already).
But I hear what you guys are saying. Definitely will take that into consideration.

By a lot you mean, you have enough to sustain the "performance" side of the business independently from the "maintenance" side of the business?

Because, by "a lot" means you should be turning away work. "Enough" means you have just enough work to for the "performance" business to sustain itself.



Or maybe are you just looking to have an "performance" service just as an auxiliary income to your current one?


I ask this because in an auxiliary setting? Then yes, you can afford to be picky, and turn away business. As Cman333 already said, if this was your intention, then you have everything to gain and nothing really to lose.

If however, you're looking for it to sustain itself, and be independent, then I think that's where everyone here is not understanding your current business model.

[Psykopathik]

i dont see the problem of going for high end vehicles.(without starting on cheaper cars)

its not like your customers worked their way up from a Civic to a Ferrari, and hit every level of car shop on the way.

no one is going to drive their exotic into a shop who parking lot is littered with aluminum wings.

and as Boosted said, his prices are at a point that budget minded customers will look elsewhere. he doesnt NEED more buisness, he wants to explore his interests and make a few $ on the side never hurts.

if your showroom is filled with high end parts, instead of Rota or taiwanese anodized crap, it makes a big impact.

obviously doing all kinds of vehicles is best, but not financially viable. the enormous amount of stock you have to keep is ridiculous. thats all $ stuck doing nothing.

[Glove]

instead of being cheaper i think it would be better if you allowed costumers to pay a certain amount of money every month

Thats the worst idea i've ever heard,

have you met vancouverites lately?

no one owns up to anything around here, let alone payments to a car shop

[Gridlock]

Thats the worst idea i've ever heard,

have you met vancouverites lately?

no one owns up to anything around here, let alone payments to a car shop

Offering credit 'can' be done. A friend of mine works on getting money for those that have difficulty in getting money.

And he is usually successful. You can find people that will hand out the money...you just may not always like the interest rate. How badly did you need that again?

But I wouldn't touch this idea with a 10 foot pole. You will spend more time fucking around with credit than anything else. The Brick is a credit store, with comfy sofas. The idea can and has been done. To the point that I think if you walked into the brick, with cash, they'd look at your alien ass and call Will Smith.

I prefer the idea of...you pay me, or I keep your car.

Or...you can pay me, or I slap a lien on your house. Peace! Thankfully, I've never had to say that line.

[Glove]

or how about just not getting the work done if you cant fuckin afford it?

why do people do that shit? il never get it.

a guy tried to get me to re-tune his car not too long ago, and he asked me if I could take the money in installments,

wtf? no, im not a fuckin charity, beat it

[Psykopathik]

or how about just not getting the work done if you cant fuckin afford it?

why do people do that shit? il never get it.

a guy tried to get me to re-tune his car not too long ago, and he asked me if I could take the money in installments,

wtf? no, im not a fuckin charity, beat it

In God We Trust, all others pay cash. best policy.

no money, no work. that's what credit cards are for.

no credit card? well, time to find a cheaper hobby.

[white rocket]

I think offering credit could work for those who receive a monthly allowance from their parents, or whoever. Say the customer wants to spend $50k on their car and pay like $10k per month. Get that interest rate into double digits and then put a lien on the car(assuming they own it). Or better, put a GPS tracking device in the car. Customer misses a payment, snatch the car. It's still pretty high risk though.

[Gridlock]

I think offering credit could work for those who receive a monthly allowance from their parents, or whoever. Say the customer wants to spend $50k on their car and pay like $10k per month. Get that interest rate into double digits and then put a lien on the car(assuming they own it). Or better, put a GPS tracking device in the car. Customer misses a payment, snatch the car. It's still pretty high risk though.

That's a lot of effort. I prefer...cash, or we aren't as kind taking it back out as we were putting it in.

[bcrdukes]

Cash is king.