[ws6ta]

has anyone ever had this happen to them?

someone managed to spend 7k on a card that I have and it was in my pocket the whole time. I disputed the charges and the credit card company was investigating. Never heard anything back from them. Fast forward 1 year I get a collections letter for the 7000 dollars?

wtf? they said that someone knew the pin that was using the card. the card never left my wallet.

[Manic!]

Why didn't you follow up? Lost my card once people charged a bunch of stuff to it and my CC company refunded the charges. Call you credit card a.s.a.p.

[mmmk]

I've had it happen to me as well. My card was in my possession the whole time too.

Like you, I disputed the charges and the credit card company investigated. I was compensated for the fraud charges.

You should call your credit card company and clear things up with them.
Did they ever reverse the $7000 in fraud charges made to your card?

[ws6ta]

they did reverse it and right after that I canceled the card only because I already had another visa and this one obviously had me a little bit paranoid!! Never heard from the collection agency or the credit card company. Just from the bank when I applied for another mortgage the other day saying I need to clear up the debt.

[TOPEC]

what bank/cc is this? and what kind of fraud was this? purchases or advanced cash withdraws on atms?

[Qmx323]

I had 1300 in starbucks cards fraudulently charged on my visa once, I called them and asked them to cancel, fast forward 2 months, charges still on my account. I called AGAIN and they wiped it immediately.

[Noir]

has anyone ever had this happen to them?

someone managed to spend 7k on a card that I have and it was in my pocket the whole time. I disputed the charges and the credit card company was investigating. Never heard anything back from them. Fast forward 1 year I get a collections letter for the 7000 dollars?

wtf? they said that someone knew the pin that was using the card. the card never left my wallet.



That's probably because they had a duplicate of your card.


You should be careful what stores or vendors you've used it previously because the fraudulent card machine doesn't just ring your purchase up, but also grabs your info for duplication. I think there was a huge article about this a while back.

Something like the police busted a Vietnamese gang and uncovered tons of duplicate plastic cards and fraudulent debit/credit card terminals. In fact, what I remember from that article, some retailers or vendors aren't even aware that their credit/debit card terminals have been switched with a fraudulent one.

[ziggyx]

^ yeah I'm always sketched out using my card on places where the card machines aren't locked down.

Always sketched out at restaurants where a waiter or waitress gives a person the cordless hand held debit/credit machines.

[Hondaracer]

when we were hunting a couple years ago me and my dad went to a sketchy ass gas station near cranbrook in the interior, alot of sketchy shit happened as we were filling up gas, like the attendant hugely concerned with our truck not having plates even though we had our temp papers plastered on the canopy etc.

my dad used his infinite avion to pay for the gas and a few other things, 2 days later my mom phoned us out in the bush saying Visa had phoned and said that 6 macbook pro's were charged on the account and it was automatically denied and the card cancelled

obviously they swiped the card, even though this place didnt even have a digital cash register

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

If you want, try this in the future. Have 3 credit cards in your wallet with a maximum of $1500 credit on each card. Even if some guy duplicate one of your card, they can only spend within that amount. This method helps me.

A while back, a person have the exact same name as my mom... the creditor called and asked "Can i speak with ***" and i thought ok this person is just looking for my mom nothing to worry about and i told the creditor my mom is not home.. ever since that day, the CC forced my mom to repay the $7000.00 someone else borrowed (we hired a lawyer and fought it).. and it seriously fucked up her credit.

[97ITR]

Unfortunately if they say it was a pin confirmed transaction you're going to have a real tough time arguing this. Banks are currently of the belief that chips can't be duplicated. To the banks, the fact that it was a pin transaction meant that either your chip card was stolen and used or your chip card was duplicated or you made the purchase. Since your card wasn't stolen and they firmly believe chip cards can't be duplicated, they've concluded it's a legit purchase.

[mqin]

Yep, +1 to the reference to the card duplication. I've had a friend manage a booster juice one night while multiple people entered, with each person distracting a separate employee and having the last person completely replace their debit/credit machine right under their nose. They only found this out days later when they reviewed the security cameras. And even when I use to work retail at metrotown we would securely lock down all of our debit/credit machines, and even in places where they don't have such locks for these machines, they would put stickers where half of it is on the machine and the other half is attached to the units that supports it so I guess if the machine were ever taken off and replaced even with a duplicate the sticker would look like it's ripped in half.

[parm104]

I'm beginning to see that these chip systems are more or less security for credit card companies to be able to say; "the only way your card can be compromised is if you give someone your password."

[Gt-R R34]

My only question is - Why did you not follow up about this fraud.

1 Year? 99% of the population would of followed up within 1-2 weeks at the latest.

[TOPEC]

there r ways to fool cc machines so u end up signing and not have to enter pin.........

[Iceman-19]

He's rich, 7k isn't a big deal to him.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Call yoru CC company right away. Is strange coz usually CC company will contact you after a fraud report. I would also contact the police if I were so you can open a file with them as well.

Happen to me once and my CC company call me at like 12lish and ask if I was making purchase lol. I was at home so they cancel the card and give me a new one.

Just last night I want to order some tickets off ticket master and it got deny. I phone my CC and it seems I enter the wrong Security number so they froze my card.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

I've read somewhere that as long as you cover up ur PIN, there is no way to make a dup.

[91LS-VTak]

I had my debit card duplicated and all the money was taken out of my chequing account. Called the bank, money was returned to my account the next day. Scary though.

[FerrariEnzo]

you waited a whole year??

wouldnt it show on your statements?

[ilovebacon]

Hey probably waited a whole year because the bank company said that they would call back. Not knowing that it would take a year to call back. Everything should be ok. Right? If its something serious, wouldnt they take less than a year to get back to you? Knowing me.. I probably put all my hopes into the bank company and hope they know what their doing. For sure they know more stuff than me. I never knew that people can frad ur card and get you pin.

[Iceman-19]

If someone stole 7k from me, you better believe I would be calling back if I havent heard back from them in a week.

[Preemo]

Never heard anything back from them. Fast forward 1 year I get a collections letter for the 7000 dollars?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m58qaxvn4T1rxlmf0o1_500.gif

[MWR34]

has anyone ever had this happen to them?

someone managed to spend 7k on a card that I have and it was in my pocket the whole time. I disputed the charges and the credit card company was investigating. Never heard anything back from them. Fast forward 1 year I get a collections letter for the 7000 dollars?

wtf? they said that someone knew the pin that was using the card. the card never left my wallet.

As other people have mentioned in this thread, Chip and Pin is secure, secure enough that they know when your trying to fool them.
I have worked high-end retail before, So I have seen many things, and many attempts.

There are several methods of processing a Chip Card transaction.
In Person
1, Swiping the card, and the terminal asks you to insert Chip to proceed, You insert chip, it asks you for PIN and you enter your PIN. (this is a PIN transaction)
2, "" "" insert Chip, it says Error, try again, it says Error Again, then the terminal defaults and asks you to just swipe the Mag stripe. Receipt prints out, and you need to Sign it. (this is Chip/Mag transaction)
3, Swipe the card, and you Sign it. (Swiped transaction) Mostly in hotels/ Car rentals and some gas stations or places who do not have a Chip / PIN terminal
In Person or Over the phone
4, Manual entry, They enter in the numbers 1 by 1, then expiry, and then most likely the CVN 3 digits on the back. Or not. ( manual transaction with or w/o CVN )


So the bank already knows How the transaction was done the second it was purchased, and scenario #1, is the only surefire way to know that the card in your wallet was present during the purchase, and your PIN was used. So you either did the transaction and forgot you did, someone took your card or wallet and returned it without you knowing, aswell as knowing your PIN.
Any other scenario i mentioned is flawed and they cannot hold you liable.

[cdizzle_996]

I'm going threw the process right now. I have a card with a 10k limit, that I never use. I got my cc bill 2 weeks ago and there was $3200 spent at an Apple store in Luxemborough over 3 days. What pissed me off most is that the card company didn't catch it. Once I called them to dispute the charges it was sent to the fraud department, the card was cancelled and within 6 days the charges were gone BUT I just got a letter in the mail that I needed to sign confirming I hadn't made the purchases. I'll keep my eye on it, hopefully it all goes away

[ninjatune]

Even with a chip card, transactions can still be done without using the chip. Your PIN can be compromised by someone watching you enter it, or a hidden camera focused on the pin pad, or the suspects replacing the entire pin pad (which can record your card # and PIN).

1) keep track of your transactions
2) cover your PIN when you enter it
3) inspect the machine/atm/pin pad closely for suspicious signs
4) change your PIN often.

[Noir]

^ This.


So to the people (or CC companies) saying that it's pretty much impossible to defraud chip-based transactions, that's crap.

[Sunfighter]

The transition to chip & pin was a saviour to retailers and vendors for a couple of reasons.

Prior to the introduction of chip & pin in this country, a cardholder could dispute ANY Master Card or VISA purchase at any time. The process would look like this;

-VISA/MC would contact the retailer/vendor and ask for an imprint/signature or a digital signature. VISA/MC already know at this point if the card was magnetically swiped of if it was manually entered. The success rate for cardholders disputing manually entered (and imprinted) cards was much higher than those that were magnetically swiped because their was no realistic way for the retailer/vendor to prove that the card was physically present. Depending on what documentation/evidence the retailer/vendor might provide, VISA/MC could side with the customer, in which case the charge would be cleared from their statement and charged to the retailer/vendor, who would have to eat it as bad debt... the retailer/vendor would have little room to dispute the now bad debt as per their stringent agreement with VISA/MC...

-Chip & pin has changed everything.... it protects the customer in a HUGE way but also the vendor/retailer. If I am a customer and I attempt to dispute a charge on my statement and VISA/MC recognize that if was a chip & pin transaction I as the cardholder have ZERO grounds to dispute the charge... HOWEVER, I can still dispute charges that were magnetically swiped or manually entered.... THEREFORE, as a retailer, it is in my interest to have the customer use chip & pin in every instance possible because it means zero bad debt for me....

I work very closely with VISA and MC and the impact that Chip & Pin has had on reducing credit card fraud for cardholders and bad debt for businesses is simply ENORMOUS.... like simply astonishing..... the biggest obstacle right now is ensuring that retailers have physically secured their pinpads accurately to prevent against instances where (As a poster mentioned above) their unit is lifted and replaced with a tampered unit that is grabbing people's card information....

I have caught probably 50+ people using stolen credit cards in the past and yet to find somebody using a stolen card with a functioning chip & pin... it's very obvious now when the card is stolen because the "customer" insists that the retailer/vendor swipe the card as they have "forgotten" their PIN... and then they disapear when I suggest we call the bank... :)

[97ITR]

Even with a chip card, transactions can still be done without using the chip. Your PIN can be compromised by someone watching you enter it, or a hidden camera focused on the pin pad, or the suspects replacing the entire pin pad (which can record your card # and PIN).

1) keep track of your transactions
2) cover your PIN when you enter it
3) inspect the machine/atm/pin pad closely for suspicious signs
4) change your PIN often.

Yes, you are entirely correct that even with a chip card, transactions can still be done without using the chip. Even with a chip-equipped card, you can still do swiped transactions, where you physically sign, or number-entered transactions, where the card isn't physically present (i.e. online transactions). What's important to note is that in these cases the credit card PIN isn't entered and the actual chip on the card isn't used to authenticate. This is why the whole industry is hoping to phase out swipe transactions by 2015. In the OP's case, it was a PIN entered transaction, meaning the chip was used to authenticate. That's the sticky part, banks currently have not seen any evidence where the chip has been successfully duplicated. This is why I mentioned that, in their eyes, the explanation for the 7K charge is either the OP had his PIN & card stolen or he made the transaction.

Edit...
I want to further clarify that the though the chip on your card "can't" be duplicated, thieves can still duplicate your card and hit places that they know don't require chip and PIN authentication.

[Sunfighter]

Understand though... that if a retailer/vendor completes a manually entered or magnetically swiped card transaction as opposed to a PIN transaction, they are effectively assuming the full burden of a potential charge back, which is why most retailers will refuse, especially if the purchase exceeds X amount of dollars, and will insist the customer enter their PIN...

I am not saying that it is impossible, but I have yet to see an instance where a customer has disputed a PIN-entered transaction and we have been using chip & pin officially since March 31st of 2011 (that's when the liability shift extension expired...)...

[Mr.HappySilp]

That's why I perfer to use cash when i can. Only save way unless of coz I got rob.

[Manic!]

Understand though... that if a retailer/vendor completes a manually entered or magnetically swiped card transaction as opposed to a PIN transaction, they are effectively assuming the full burden of a potential charge back, which is why most retailers will refuse, especially if the purchase exceeds X amount of dollars, and will insist the customer enter their PIN...

I am not saying that it is impossible, but I have yet to see an instance where a customer has disputed a PIN-entered transaction and we have been using chip & pin officially since March 31st of 2011 (that's when the liability shift extension expired...)...

I think the liability shift has been extended to another year but I am not 100% sure. We have spent over 70K getting our gas station to be ready for chip and pin. New pumps and till system that can read the chip. Right now there are places that still swipe but in a year or 2 they will be almost but all gone. We also never do manual transactions. Chip and pin is secure and a lot better than swipe. People should not worry.

[Sunfighter]

The March 31st, 2011, date was the domestic liability shift for VISA and MC... it was supposed to be 6 months earlier but retailers/vendors were not entirely ready... like you said, it is a costly process to upgrade and logistically very complex for retailers/vendors big and small... virtually everybody who has completed the switchover has seen big returns though! :)

[Sunfighter]

Just checked... both VISA and MC DID extend the liability shift for AFD (Automatic Fuel Dispenser Merchants) until December 31st, 2012.. :)

[Psykopathik]

happened to me too. found out my info was floating around online. yes I actually found it MYSELF on a hackers forum! (which was already shut down)

my CC company called me when they noticed weird transactions. and cancelled my card and issued me a new one.

I also called Eqifax/Transunion and put a fraud notice on my name an any future CC applications etc. So any time a CC is opened under my name it will be scrutinized.

I'm pretty sure it was due to a trojan on my PC.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The charges have to make sense too. like you are in Vancouver but the charges are say in Japan then yea that's not you for sure lol.

[ws6ta]

I will have an update for you guys tomorrow. Credit card company is "looking into it"

[MWR34]

Even with a chip card, transactions can still be done without using the chip. Your PIN can be compromised by someone watching you enter it, or a hidden camera focused on the pin pad, or the suspects replacing the entire pin pad (which can record your card # and PIN).

1) keep track of your transactions
2) cover your PIN when you enter it
3) inspect the machine/atm/pin pad closely for suspicious signs
4) change your PIN often.

I dont think everyone understands this.

Almost Everything that you mentioned above is pointless.

1) keep track of your transactions ( obvious with every monthly statement go over it to make sure you did all the transactions )
2) cover your PIN when you enter it
3) inspect the machine/atm/pin pad closely for suspicious signs
4) change your PIN often.

2,3,4 all still require the "Fraudster" to physically take your card out of your wallet, and Use it.
It doesnt matter if they see your PIN on a hidden camera, It doesnt matter if they skim your data in a manipulated ATM, or terminal.... knowing your card number and PIN number does NOTHING, because without the actual card with the Actual Chip on it, you cannot enter the PIN.

When insert the Chip, it verifies the Chip Info, then it asks for the PIN.

So no other situation, circumstance, transaction etc.. will the PIN be relevant if you do not have the CHIP already inserted and Read.

Thats why the CHIP+PIN is soo effective in Visa or MasterCards defense. The PIN is only asked and Prompted for, after the Chip is verified. Not just swiped info, or manually entered Info.


If you Swipe your Chip card magstripe, the terminal doesnt ask for PIN, It asks you to insert your card, THEN after reading the chip it asks for PIN.



The ONLY benefit i see from having someone steal your magnetic info, and have your PIN on camera, is doing cash withdraws at an ATM that doesnt read the Chip and relys on the Magstripe then PIN. but then that falls under the category of Magstripe transaction not a CHIP+PIN transaction, And once again not instore purchases,just old sketchy ATMs

[ws6ta]

credit card company looked into the matter. apologized. said they will have the collections cleared off of my credit within 24 hours and are sending me a letter saying I don't owe them anything.

That was a lot easier then I thought it would have been. :ahwow:

[FerrariEnzo]

good thing...

MAKE sure you get this in writing about this being cleared, so you have record incase "collections" doesnt get word and still continue to harass you