[Razor Ramon HG]

I'm interested in becoming a financial analyst.

Does anyone on here have that as their career?

Is there a good book that you would recommend so I can start familiarizing myself with everything?

[shawnly1000]

Others can probably confirm this, but networking definitely helps getting the foot in the door and career-wise

[GGnoRE]

I am in my 4th year planning on applying for Master of Financial Engineering programs in Europe or US next year.

Everyone in Finance is pretty much an analyst; that ranges from risk management, to brokers, to traders, to quants, to fund managers etc... What type of field are you interested in?

As for beginner books, I highly recommend Capital Markets for Quantitative Professionals. It covers pretty much everything you wanna know (all types of market participants and all types of markets like treasury, equity, derivatives, swaps, options, futures etc...)
Amazon.com: The Complete Guide to Capital Markets for Quantitative Professionals (McGraw-Hill Library of Investment and Finance) (9780071468299): Alex Kuznetsov: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PvS2lOc4L.@@AMEPARAM@@51PvS2lOc4L

Second choice is Financial Engineering - The Evolution of a Profession. I prefer the first one better though.Amazon.com: Financial Engineering: The Evolution of a Profession (Robert W. Kolb Series) (9780470455814): Tanya S. Beder, Cara M. Marshall: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ToqjdvYvL.@@AMEPARAM@@41ToqjdvYvL

As for fun reading, everyone has read this one, Amazon.com: My Life as a Quant: Reflections on Physics and Finance (9780470192733): Emanuel Derman: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41iBhx-yOzL.@@AMEPARAM@@41iBhx-yOzL

If none of those books are of interests you, have a look at this list. https://www.quantnet.com/threads/master-reading-list-for-quants-mfe-financial-engineering-students.535/

[LiquidTurbo]

Is this job stressful? Managing other people's $$?

[GGnoRE]

Stressful but highly rewarding. Most people never look back after they enter this field.

[Razor Ramon HG]

How do you find it rewarding? Did you mean in terms of knowledge and money?

[GGnoRE]

Knowledge-wise? Yes, because I consider finance to be one of the most complex, dynamic, and challenging industry today. Research in theoretical finance is huge, along with technological advances in trading softwares and algorithm development.

Money-wise? Yes, since 6-digit salaries are not uncommon. Hedge funds offer incentives up to 20%. If you move past associate level in a decent firm, your 6-digit salary can be pale in comparison to your yearly commission. VP's literally hold meetings at the end of the financial year to divide, among themselves, the millions of PnL's racked up in the trade books.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Sorry, I meant in what ways that you personally find it rewarding.

[GGnoRE]

Well, I am only a student right now so I can't share any first hand experiences.

I do sense a great pride from the people working in the financial sector for the reasons listed above.

Whereabouts are you in your life? a student? working professional? If so, which field or industry?

[DaFonz]

You realize financial analyst covers everything from corporate development to quantitative trading to investment banking right?

It's a broad term which can mean a lot of different things.

For example, everyone wants to be in front-office finance. I've been there and let me tell you, it's fucking miserable. You get fat, you work long hours and most of the work is bullshit make busy work like putting together comps and presentations that no one gives a flying fuck about.

Not only are you slaving away, but come bonus time, if your company is doing badly, congrats, you get a nice round donut.

GGnoRE doesn't know WTF he's talking about seeing as he's never worked in the industry before.

[GGnoRE]

For example, everyone wants to be in front-office finance. I've been there and let me tell you, it's fucking miserable

Well since your the one knows exactly 'wtf' you're talking about, why don't you explain to us why it is so 'fucking miserable'?

You get fat I don't think you should blame your job for that, yet alone the whole finance industry.

you work long hours Boo Hoo. If you weren't prepared for that, this field was not for you in the first place.

most of the work is bullshit I am sorry that you were once a useless employee at some company but that reflects more of your own capabilities rather than the industry itself.

come bonus time, if your company is doing badly, congrats, you get a nice round donut. True, but keep in mind, bonus is a bonus. It's an extra reward, not your salary. No profits? than obviously no bonus. How is that unfair?

GGnoRE doesn't know WTF he's talking about seeing as he's never worked in the industry before Following that logic, every user on this forum who haven't worked in the automotive industry should stfu when it comes to cars or automotive buisness?



Its unfortunate that you didn't have a successful career in finance, but reading from your post, it doesn't seem like a big surprise. Consider it as natural selection.

[DaFonz]

Well since your the one knows exactly 'wtf' you're talking about, why don't you explain to us why it is so 'fucking miserable'?


Have you spread comps at 12am in the morning?

Have you spent weeks pulling all nighters only to have a deal fall through?

How about having to put together shit for a 3am e-mail deadline just because your MD was feeling like an ass?

No, you haven't because you're a fucking student who doesn't know shit. This is common in the industry and if you don't think so, then you're effing delusional.


Boo Hoo. If you weren't prepared for that, this field was not for you in the first place.


Have you ever worked 120 hours a week? Have you done it for weeks on end?

No, I didn't think so. Again, you're a fucking student. Pulling all nighters for studying and homework is COMPLETELY different.


True, but keep in mind, bonus is a bonus. It's an extra reward, not your salary. No profits? than obviously no bonus. How is that unfair?


Who the fuck would work 80-120 hours a week for $75k base? You work in finance for the bonus.


Following that logic, every user on this forum who haven't worked in the automotive industry should stfu when it comes to cars or automotive buisness?


.. but you don't know what you're talking about.

"VP's literally hold meetings at the end of the financial year to divide, among themselves, the millions of PnL's racked up in the trade books."

VPs most certainly don't split up millions of "PnL's" (who the fuck says that?) racked up on their books. VPs most certainly aren't pulling in millions of dollars either.

Investment Banking Vice President Salary | Glassdoor (http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/investment-banking-vice-president-salary-SRCH_KO0,33.htm)


Its unfortunate that you didn't have a successful career in finance, but reading from your post, it doesn't seem like a big surprise. Consider it as natural selection.

:lawl: One day you'll learn that there are way better ways to make money than trading hours for dollars.

Now keep on drinking the koolaid. The real world is going to be a bitch when it hits you.

[TRDood]

There are some merits to DaFonz comments. Good that you find interest in finance at school. The working world is a whole other monster. Since you are doing a Master degree, or maybe eventually a PhD, a professor might fit you better.

I personally find finance not interesting. I took finance at the graduate level.

People do work 10-16 hour days. Can you handle it? Is the 100k worth it? First step is to network like mad and suck people's dicks. Get paid 40k-50k for a few years working like a dog.

[Geoc]

LOL at the fact that you guys are already talking about how much a person makes as Investment VP. I highly doubt you'd make it there that easily if ever.

Like any positions even when you finish your education you're still going to be working your way up. And if you are planning to become someone who manages others money, prepare to take a shitload of courses such as CSC, CIM, IFA, and if you really plan to make it big, CFA. This all while working at a entry level job in the in finance industry. It's a huge time commitment (you'll spend many years if not decades working your way to the position you want) If you have good networking and have good luck, you get to move up or get into a good position. If you have terrible luck and don't network much you won't get anywhere. It's a steep uphill race against tens and thousand other people.

[shawnly1000]

No offence, but I find that most students in finance have a distorted take on the true finance world whether it be trading, managing a fund etc... it's partly on the school's fault for instilling such a mentality/view.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Financial Analyst, CFA, etc... pfft lol.

I say if you wanna get into "finance", if you don't have the psychological strength to make it as a trader, fuck it. There's other easier ways to make money.

trading is the really only lucrative thing in finance. by lucrative i mean work:reward ratio lol.
make money from nothing. if you really want, sit at home, in your PJ's with your thumb up your ass raking in more than you can imagine.

I never understood why anyone would wanna be a dog in the corporate finance world. or a dog in any company lol.

that or run a brokerage firm, you win either way, just keep making that commission.

[dasani604]

One day you'll learn that there are way better ways to make money than trading hours for dollars.

There's other easier ways to make money.

:yuno: tell me your secrets

Trading as part of a brokerage firm or a bank is one of my backup plans so I'm a bit curious about what you guys are talking about before I stick my feet into the finance puddle.

[Hehe]

From my relationship with my parent's financial adviser/analysts, what I get is this, you have to be really good at socializing and pulling in clients.

For a FA to really make money, they need clients with deep pocket that trust them. But for big clients to trust them, they have to be very good at making money for them. And there is no way to show that you are good at making money unless you have clients with deep pocket who trust you (so you have the fund to invest in the first place).

So it's a bit of paradox. And for all the big fund managers out there, usually they are good at investing, but they are usually better at getting big clients.

If you don't have the social connection to make a foot in this market, it's really hard to make a name.

[shawnly1000]

So glad nobody has mentioned World Financial Group here LOL :troll: :facepalm:

[strykn]

hahahahah I use to think like that. damn bros get the degree, be a FA and make it rain. Until I learned & became a good trader fuck that shit now, only reason I'm still in school is for my parents.

and ggnore smell the fuckin coffee brah. dafonz is spitting realtalk the quicker u learn this the less miserable your life will be.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Hmm.. lots of good stuff in here.

I wasn't aware that FA was so broad. I'm just finding that accounting might not be the best career choice as much as I originally wanted.

Since most of you seem to be traders, are there any books you guys have personally read that would help me judge for myself if this is something I want to get into? I'm somewhat under the impression all you guys do are buy and sell stocks at home?

[sh0n]

Working in the field of Finance of being a Financial Analyst in general can be pretty board.

And it can be any of the following:
- An accounting related job (CA, CGA, CMA, Accountant, Clerk, etc)
- Corporate. You can work in the roles of business development or corporate financial planning and analysis These roles are what they are titled. BD makes sure the the strategies and plans of the company is property executed and end of day they are making money. FPA work encompasses work that make sure the company is on track to do X and more is a more of a risk adverse type of position to make sure the company does not fuck up.
- Banking. There's all sorts - Investment, Commercial, Retail & Consumer. I won't get into too much as most people know what the job entails. You also have the people who become independent Financial Advisers and the salary is usually a cut from the entire book or salary based
- Proprietary Trading. This involves trading assets whether its for a company or your own dime for profits.

DaFonz is pretty much spot on with what an Investment Banker does - you're pretty much a glorified paper pusher and hoping that the right amount of dick sucking and putting in the hours and years will get you your promotion the VP or above level. There's no skill as to what an Investment Banker does as the saying goes you can train a chimpanzee to do all the grunt work.

As far as Finance work is concerned. Unfortunately Vancouver is not a Finance Hub unlike New York, London or Hong Kong. The closest to a Finance Hub for a Canadian city is Toronto.

In terms of Finance experience or success from what I've seen and heard from the people that post on RS it seems they like to trade invest and trade heavily on their own account.

What I personally see with the entry level Finance people in Vancouver is that many of the fresh graduates go the CA route.

Fresh out of undergrad, they'll apply for a position with a Big 4 CA firm, put in their hours, pass the exams, become designated and leave for bigger fish (become finance manager for local national corps)

Big 4 Pay
First Year (out of underground): All in 38 - 45K
Second Year (working towards designation): All in 45 - 50K
Third year (Designated): 50-60K
Fourth Year (Usually become Senior Manager): All in 60-70K or jump company for better pay

I'm not advising on going the CA route, but from my experience that's where I see local finance students can have the most success as its stable and proven.

Hope this helps.

In terms of working in Finance and being a so called FA - you never really stop learning. Like a chef in the kitchen there's always a new recipe or skill to be learned - same should be applied for someone working in the field of Finance.

P.S I would to love to hear from the people that work in the industry, your feedback and experiences

[trix4kids]

Being a senior in highschool, the word around the block to those interested in getting into investment banking is to get into Ivey,Queens commerce or desautels. , get an internship by cold calling and learning to suck dickThis seems to be the formula I see so many people following, however, I see this process more of a marketing tool for universities to charge ridiculous amounts for tuition (22k for the last 2 years at Ivey) Can anyone shed some light on working in bulge bracket firms and how shit actually goes down.

[sh0n]

Being a senior in highschool, the word around the block to those interested in getting into investment banking is to get into Ivey,Queens commerce or desautels. , get an internship by cold calling and learning to suck dickThis seems to be the formula I see so many people following, however, I see this process more of a marketing tool for universities to charge ridiculous amounts for tuition (22k for the last 2 years at Ivey) Can anyone shed some light on working in bulge bracket firms and how shit actually goes down.

Getting into a good school (Ivey league or top 5 school in the country) is the first steps.

It's also about how well you network, who you know and what you make of your opportunities.

Aside from getting good grades your 1st year you need to branch out, reach out and expand your network of connections. Build up your confidence, soft skills, textbook and technical knowledge. Wanna make sure you have the extra circulars (team sports, volunteer at a prominent society, school clubs etc).

After building your network after Year 2 and 3 you can try and see if you can land a summer internship as a Summer Analyst. If the company and team likes you they'll ask you back the following summer and when you graduate they may have a position for you. This should give you an idea what investment banking is all about - you'll work on deals, paper pushing and see how the other analysts, associates, vps, mds present themselves.

Gotta keep in mind that everyone working in finance wants to work in ibanking. But you also got to realize not everyone can become a banker. It's the same process how the top 20% get into the best undergrad business school, the same top 20% is fighting for the 1 summer analyst position or permanent graduate position.

Don't mind setting for less....

Because end of the day there are still many people who want to work in investment banking but settled for work in accounting, risk management, insurance, commercial and retail banking.

Work is all the same - just different hours, work/life balance, pay. levels of stress and so on.

[Scudz]

If you're interested in learning more about the world of finance and the culture in it, check out Understanding Investment Banking | Mergers & Inquisitions (http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com.)

This website has everything from interviews of past employees, strategies to positioning yourself from target and non-target schools, the differing career paths to take, etc.

From my research, DaFonz is pretty much spot-on. The world of Wallstreet from afar is glittering in gold.

[jameswift]

I'd like to share a story with everyone. It's my story of being in Finance.

I feel really bad for a lot of students these days. Everyone wants to go into finance because there is this unwritten rule that it's paved with gold at some point.

I've spent the last 15 years in finance. I was a bank teller at 17 and that was my ticket into retail banking (which at the time I didn't know that is was called that). My parents always said get a good education and get a good job. My Dad knew the CEO of a local credit union and he got me the awesome job of being a bank teller. Talking about having the hook up. I was paid $13.25 per hour.

I was told that even with a degree, my sights would have to be set on getting insurance and investment licenced. So I took my CSC and my LLQP while going to school. I was a mutual fund rep after a few years. I was making $18.50 an hour plus about $1200 per quarter if I was 110% of target.

Then I wanted to get into financial planning because that was where the money was. So I took my CFP and my CLU. I became a financial planner at 23. I had a base salary of $55,000 and I could make up to $5000 per quarter if I knocked the numbers out of the park. The largest bonus I ever recieved was $3000

I hated it. All we sold was wrap account A B and C. It's a sales job. Some people sell pots and pans, I was selling investments mortgages and insurance. I remember selling so much garbage investments to people and I just felt like crap every day. I wanted out. I was pissed off that I did all this school and worked so hard to make the "average" adult income.

Why didn't I get into engineering or accounting or something else? How the fuck did this happen to me?

I would show up to work because I had to, but I was unhappy. Then someone told me that I could make a lot of money if I worked for the mutual fund companies directly selling/wholesaling to investment advisors. So I went and started on the quest to take on this kind of job. I thought maybe I might like that better and at that point. Anything was better then what I was doing.

At 25, I got a job as a wholesaler. I was given a base salary of $110,000 and bonuses were uncapped. My first bonus, and I remember this like it was yesterday, was about $25,000 after taxes. I was happy because of the money I was making but the money only made me happy for about 6 months.

Yes, the pay was good, but I was working 7 days a week, I was stressed out all the time worried about if I was going to make my numbers for the quarter and I was always in fear of losing my job. If you had 2 quarters where you didn't meet your numbers you were out the door. The boss who had hired me and liked me, was fired and was replaced with a woman who hated me with a passion. She would yell and scream at me at least 3 times a week over the phone. I swore I would quit but then my $3200 bi-weekly payroll would come in and I'd just swallow my pride.

I got married during this time because I felt I could afford to put my girlfriend through med school. Deep down, I wanted to marry her so she could become a doctor and then I could quit being in this hell of a world I put myself in.

I had a mortgage, a car, school bills that blew my mind, and fear every day that I could lose my job. I was stressed out all the time and it took a massive toll on my relationship. Out of fear, I wanted to keep educated in case I lost my job. I wanted to be employable with a good job in case we had 2 bad quarters and I could no longer support my family.

I learned a lot. I learned about all the insurance MGAs the brokers, the planners, the family practices. I understood the 'REAL' investment world. I realized that finance is so vast and big and that there are so many ways to run with this. I ended up taking my CFA to keep myself in the game. If I lost my job I wanted to make sure I could support myself somehow.

Through networking, I managed to get a job offer for a trust company in Toronto which had ties in NYC as well as Vancouver. I learned a lot. I learned about how institutional investments are made, how the macro level of the stock market works and had an overall view from above on how it all fits together. My job here was $120k but only one bonus per year if the company had 90% of target. My bonus was $0

It was disgusting. The world of finance is really filled with mountains of bullshit and the CFA taught me nothing more then that anyone can make anything look anyway they want it to look. It's a game of cat and mouse. It's a game of trying to figure out what's real and what's not. It's all lies and truth.

I had the chance to work for the same company's division in NYC and figured I should take it since it's potentially good money and it was the goal of many people who get into finance. Work on Wall Street.

I did it. I was there. I felt like I was king of the world.... for about a day.

I worked as a broker and that job was by far the worst job ever. I wouldn't wish that job on my worst enemy. I worked 18 hour days 6 and sometimes 7 days a week and when I wasn't I work, I was networking or trying to study for my CFA L3.

Most of the people had a overnight bag at the desk to shave and bruth their teeth. The drug use was unreal in the office to cope with the stress. You had to act like your penis was bigger then Moby Dick and it was all just a bunch of lies.

The CFA wasn't going to help me. I was a kid that graduated from SFU with a CFA and there were people that had their MBA from Harvard and Wharton with families that were well connected and had their last names on buildings.

It was not about the paperwork, it was about the connections and the ability to perform. My days as a broker lasted 8 long months. I was away from my wife for weeks at a time and while she appreciated my efforts, it destroyed our relationship. My best month in NYC was $30,000 my worst was $0. It was hell and I wanted to go home. I eventually got a job with BOC/NBC for $80,000 and a bonus of $10,000 a year.

Working in New York made me realize that everything everyone had told me and shown me in my life was nothing but smoke and mirrors. I would go to bed crying most nights. I was diagnosed with severe depression. My wife was living in Vancouver and I was working my ass off to put her through school. That was the only thing that kept me going at that point. I didn't want to let her or my dad down.

I decided to get into trading from the advice of some people I worked with in NYC.

I made a lot of money doing it but I ended up getting fired from my job because I would skip work to trade. Even though I had made money trading, after the job loss, I lost my confidence. My wife ended up leaving me and I fell into severe depression.

All the money I made was lost, I was broken emotionally and financially. I tried to commit suicide twice and was hospitalized with severe depression.

So I end up taking my MBA because I don't want to do finance anymore but I will admit I enjoy people, sales, and business. I started my own Financial Planning firm in Vancouver and it didn't really work out too well. I just didn't have the modivation to sell financial products. We had some crazy idea and did some business but I guess I didn't have the passion for it.

So now I'm in my 30's. Unemployed, divorced, I've been applying for jobs for the last 2 months and I can't get hired (finance sector on the higher end jobs is in cutback mode not hiring mode).

Thing is, I don't want a job in finance. I want to do anything but that. I'd rather take a job as a sales manager for office supplies. I'd rather be a firefighter.

It sucks too because I got used to making $200k in my 20's and now I have to face the reality that I might only make $75,000 in my 30's.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say don't get into finance. This is just one person's experience from the ground up.

[cliffhanger33]

I'm just a first year student at Queen's school of business, but I will be joining a boutique investment bank as a summer investment banking analyst for this coming summer in TO, hoping to land a global ibanking summer internship by 2nd or third year

I'd love to talk more about this and discuss career building towards a financial analyst

[.foxtrot.]

@jameswift I had to come back hours later after reading your post. This kind of account really sheds light on the finance industry. Stories like these you never here, you only hear about the hedge fund manager making 50 million or your cousins friend making 150K + working for a investment bank.

It really puts perspective on what Ive been doing in school these past few years and if transferring out of engineering was a mistake.

On a side note could you talk about how you got into trading? Good, the Bad and would you ever do it again?