[Jas29]

Hey guys i was wondering what u can do if your contractor is taking his sweet time to do the work you hired him for

My grandparents are getting their house renovated and have paid the person for half the job already but its not close to being finished yet. The finish date given to them was September 5, he signed under the part where he wrote the date the job would be completed and at the bottom of the invoice

[Gridlock]

On a reno job, that "completion date" thing is like saying, "this is the date you don't have a sweet chance in hell of having your house back by" it just doesn't fit on the form.

Unless the contract has a financial penalty clause, then your best case is to just brow beat the guy until its done.

Usually the problem is the contractor ran out of money and can't hire help to complete.

[Jas29]

On a reno job, that "completion date" thing is like saying, "this is the date you don't have a sweet chance in hell of having your house back by" it just doesn't fit on the form.

Unless the contract has a financial penalty clause, then your best case is to just brow beat the guy until its done.

Usually the problem is the contractor ran out of money and can't hire help to complete.

I think this is the problem seems like we are stuck

[MindBomber]

I think this is the problem seems like we are stuck

Not necessarily, that's only one of many possibilities.

It's not unusual for projects to extend past initial finish dates for reasons outside of the contractors control; subs not being available, changes in the scope of work, waiting on finishing decisions. Remember, your Grandparents are not his only clients; a problem on one site has the potential to delay all his projects and you would never be aware of that.

Don't conjecture possible reasons for the delay, it's completely unproductive.
Schedule a meeting with the contractor, find out the real reason and proceed from there.

Unless it's a really small project, staggering the payment schedule for when set completion targets are hit is the best way to structure the payment portion of a reno contract.

A really rough example would be...
20% - at the time the contract is signed.
20% - at the time framing is completed.
20% - at the time mechanical systems are completed.
20% - at the time insulation and drywall is completed.
20% - at completion.

[Jas29]

I agreed with Gridlock since i found out today the person that did the tile work was never paid

[MindBomber]

I agreed with Gridlock since i found out today the person that did the tile work was never paid

When was the tile work completed?

It's not unusual for sub-contractors to wait 8-12 weeks to be paid. Usually the sub-contractor is not paid until the contractor is paid, and not because the funds aren't in place.

[Jas29]

When was the tile work completed?

It's not unusual for sub-contractors to wait 8-12 weeks to be paid. Usually the sub-contractor is not paid until the contractor is paid, and not because the funds aren't in place.

2-3 weeks ago the whole project was supposed to take 5 weeks in total

[MindBomber]

2-3 weeks ago the whole project was supposed to take 5 weeks in total

In that case, the tile guy waiting to receive payment is definitely not a sign for potential issues.

Like I already said, speak to the contractor and get the facts. Until then no one can give you any helpful advice.

[quasi]

In my experience renos almost never finish when there suppose to. The reason is because you plan on doing certain thing but when you start tearing stuff apart more issues come up, scope of work is changed and everything has to be done in order. Framer waits on demo, electrical and plumber wait on framer, boarder waits on electrical and plumber, tile guy waits on boarders, floor guy is waiting for walls to be finishes and on and on.

My last two reno jobs, one a house and one a 10 CRU food court have both taken 3 times as long as originally planned because they keep adding work. Not sure if the same thing is going on with your grandparents but if they change the scope it does effect finish dates. Also there are things that sometimes pop up that aren't expected which have to be taken care of and again drag everything out.

As said above, sub contractors aren't usually paid as soon as the job is done they have to invoice at the end of the month and then wait up to 45 days and that's if things go well. I can post more tomorrow I'm heading to bed.

[Jas29]

thanks for all the advice guys

[Soundy]

http://cdn.playbackonline.ca/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Mike-Holmes.jpg

[Jas29]

^^ lol i was telling my grandparents about him the other day actually thinking about signing up for his show...

[MindBomber]

So, it been a couple weeks, how's the project coming along?

[Jas29]

hes still got some stuff to do... he keeps asking for his money trying to pressure my grandpa into giving it to him i told him i'll give him the money when the job is complete and he hung up on me

[Gridlock]

It was money. Nailed it!

[MindBomber]

I can see this ending up in court, I would strongly consider speaking to a lawyer.

If you just end the relationship and tell him to F' off, he may file a lien.

The basic gist of how the lawyer might recommend things proceed....

Have an independent assessment of the value of work completed, it may be more or less than you've already paid him. If it's more, pay him that sum; if it's less, off to court to get it. From there, bring in another contractor to pick up the pieces and complete the job.

I wouldn't allow him to complete the job, and I wouldn't pay him another dime until an assessment is done.

The fact that he hung up on you reeks of unprofessionalism, and that would indicate to me that the quality of work may not be up to professional standards either.

I really wish we had something like the RTB for contractor-client-relationships.

Good on you for helping out your Grandparents.

Mike Holmes works in Ontario, not British Columbia, and getting on his show is like winning the lottery because you get a ton of 'donated' work. If you apply for the show, you'll be very luck if you're chosen.

[Jas29]

we have 10% left to give him and gave him the other money every time he asked the work is very sub par i could have done better... i'm not being sarcastic i'm hoping he finishes up this week and i will fix the imperfections myself or point them out to him

i was kidding about applying for his show no chance we would get on it would be cool though

[Jas29]

Update:

He called my grandparents over to the house telling them the job is complete and to give him the rest of the money. So i went with them thinking he had a few days he could have probably finished all the things (I was there last on September 29) so we got there and the only thing he had done was add a mail slot into the door...

He wanted the whole amount in the beginning so i started pointing out everything that still needs to be done so he was like okay give me the rest of the money except for $2500 and u can give that when we are done.

At the end when i didn't agree to giving him any money and told him to finish the job and i will give him a cheque on the day he completed it.

he went on a rant about how we have to give him the money or hes going to tell all the trades people to come after us for the money and to put liens on the house trying to scare my grandparents into giving him the money.

Now he has called 5 times asking for his money i told him no every time and to complete the job... I don't want him talking to my grandpa because i don't like how he tries to scare them into giving him the money

Edit: So now how do i move forward from this what should my next step be MindBomber said to call a lawyer does anyone know someone that deals with this kind of stuff. My grandparents are also losing a lot of money since this is a rental property will i be able to get that back in court

Edit #2: So he showed up to my house demanding his money again i told him the same thing and he was like i'm going to call all the sub trades and they are going to show up at ur door i told him okay go ahead do that. So the painter called me asking for his money saying he hasn't been paid a dollar and i told him its not my grandparents fault and that we have are only holding back a little bit of money and he has enough of our money to pay you, the painter agreed saying i should keep some money till he is done after that he started agreeing with me so i told him i will call him the day he is done and give him the final cheque in front of the painter so he knows that i paid him and can collect his money off of him

Edit #3 The carpet company called and told me they are owed around 4 thousand dollars. The cheque that they were given by the contractor bounced and now they want there money

Edit #4 The Tile person called and also wants his money the cheque he received also bounced hes owed around $500

[highfive]

What are the uncompleted items?

If you're getting calls from sub-contractors, is their specific job finished too?

You should just get the contractor and the sub contracts all meet up together and go through what's owing and all. If you don't mind the work, maybe agree to specific sub contracts that you'll pay them directly. And whatever that is leftover to the contractor, you'll pay him accordingly.

That way, this contractor won't run and leaving the sub contracts unpaid and them coming to you for it. ( I really think this is one of those scumbags contractors that doesn't pay his sub contracts and is in financial problems.)

No point in going to a lawyer. They are just going to take your money when you can solve it by communicating with the people working.

[Jas29]

What are the uncompleted items?

If you're getting calls from sub-contractors, is their specific job finished too?

You should just get the contractor and the sub contracts all meet up together and go through what's owing and all. If you don't mind the work, maybe agree to specific sub contracts that you'll pay them directly. And whatever that is leftover to the contractor, you'll pay him accordingly.

That way, this contractor won't run and leaving the sub contracts unpaid and them coming to you for it. ( I really think this is one of those scumbags contractors that doesn't pay his sub contracts and is in financial problems.)

No point in going to a lawyer. They are just going to take your money when you can solve it by communicating with the people working.

The problem with this is i wont have any money left over to complete the job once i pay the subs that have done there work like the company that provided the carpets and tiles is all done. I can afford to pay them with out losing money but what do i do if other people come after me for money that i don't have like the company that provided the the cabinets and counter tops

Also i don't think the liens will affect my grandparents because they do not have a mortgage on the house and they are not planning on selling it unless the lien will affect other things but to my understanding it shouldn't affect them

[MindBomber]

In my experience, sketchy contractors work with sketchy subs, and good contractors work with good subs, with very little intermingling. I wouldn't trust the quality of the contractors or any of his subs work, just based on the fact they're all acting unprofessional. If I had to bring in a trade to finish the contract, it wouldn't be anyone whose been on the site before.

Jas should not pay the subcontractors, he's doesn't have a contract with them (I'm making an assumption based on standard industry practice); Jas has a contract with the Contractor, and the Contractor has contracts with the subs. If Jas has already paid the Contractor for the work completed, he's fulfilled the obligations.

There's not a communication issue, there's a bad Contractor issue.

Sorry Jas, I've know the general process because I've been brought in after the fact to rip out work and replace it when these scenarios take place a couple times. I haven't had to directly work with the lawyers though, the new GC and Homeowners did that.

You definitely need a lawyer, otherwise you're going to have three illegitimate liens and people pounding on your grandparents door.

I guarantee, if you pay him and he'll never set foot on the site again, and the none of the money will reach the people he owes money to.

[Jas29]

In my experience, sketchy contractors work with sketchy subs, and good contractors work with good subs, with very little intermingling. I wouldn't trust the quality of the contractors or any of his subs work, just based on the fact they're all acting unprofessional. If I had to bring in a trade to finish the contract, it wouldn't be anyone whose been on the site before.

Jas should not pay the subcontractors, he's doesn't have a contract with them (I'm making an assumption based on standard industry practice); Jas has a contract with the Contractor, and the Contractor has contracts with the subs. If Jas has already paid the Contractor for the work completed, he's fulfilled the obligations.

There's not a communication issue, there's a bad Contractor issue.

Sorry Jas, I've know the general process because I've been brought in after the fact to rip out work and replace it when these scenarios take place a couple times. I haven't had to directly work with the lawyers though, the new GC and Homeowners did that.

You definitely need a lawyer, otherwise you're going to have three illegitimate liens and people pounding on your grandparents door.

I guarantee, if you pay him and he'll never set foot on the site again, and the none of the money will reach the people he owes money to.

Thanks mindbomber for the well written out response and u are correct they are all his subs and they all seem to have worked with this guy for the first time my grandparents have no contract with them. i'm going to call a gc i worked with for a little bit and see if he has any advice on how to handle this situation and will call a lawyer i know tom to see what my next step should be to deal with this.

Thanks for all the responses hopefully i'm not making to many grammar/spelling mistakes pretty annoyed and not paying attention

[GLOW]

I may have forgotten my contract law its been a while but I thought subs can't lien the house when there is a GC? They have to go after the GC when he is paid, I.e. "paid when paid" clause. At most wouldn't there be 1 illegitimate lien potentially - the GC?

Subs knocking on the owners door sounds sketch as hell =/

[Jas29]

I may have forgotten my contract law its been a while but I thought subs can't lien the house when there is a GC? They have to go after the GC when he is paid, I.e. "paid when paid" clause. At most wouldn't there be 1 illegitimate lien potentially - the GC?

Subs knocking on the owners door sounds sketch as hell =/

i've been using this site Builders Liens (http://www.cba.org/bc/public_media/housing/268.aspx)


The BC Builders Lien Act (the Act) helps those who have worked on a construction project or supplied material to it, but haven’t been paid. Under this law, they can file a charge against the property to secure payment of the money owed to them.

[GLOW]

i've been using this site Builders Liens (http://www.cba.org/bc/public_media/housing/268.aspx)

i stand corrected. holy shit that sucks.

[Glove]

the whole time im reading this thread, im just wondering,

why in the hell did you hire these guys in the first place?

just by looking at people and talking to them you should be able to tell if their crooks or not

[Jas29]

I did not hire them my grandparents did I got involved after he was already hired
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[Gridlock]

the whole time im reading this thread, im just wondering,

why in the hell did you hire these guys in the first place?

just by looking at people and talking to them you should be able to tell if their crooks or not

That's a mighty bold statement.

I'm sorry, there are 100's of people that continuously send money to aid the millions of nigerian princes out there desperate in their search for North Americans to aid in transferring capital.

As a contractor, I can tell you that I've had people hand me checks, and cash with a set of purchase orders and contracts that I drew up myself. As a landlord, I have new tenants hand me cash and checks upon signing a lease that I printed off my own computer. Now, obviously, I'm not out to rip people off, but what about me says that to people? A gleam in my eye? My shoes?

Maybe if you could provide tips of what to look for in people, the whole con industry would disappear over night.

In short, it fucking happens. Not a single contractor that I know, and I deal with plenty, but not a one starts a job without a check in their hand, or a visa number in their terminal(actually, my paving guys didn't need anything, which I found weird), unless, they have worked for people before and know they are good for it. And many a contractor has an equal amount of stories about customers that didn't pay.

I had one. We all have. Mine was waiting on a Nigerian scam to pay him money so he could pay off the money he owed. No fucking joke. He meets me in a bar and slides this piece of paper over to me that describes in detail all this money he's got coming. I had to bite my tongue. He took all the money from the job(I was a sub-con) and sent it to them, hoping to have it back to finish the job. His business partner was out 15k I think on his visa that was maxed with parts and supplies. I took the hit and walked-I couldn't handle that much stupid.

[Lomac]

the whole time im reading this thread, im just wondering,

why in the hell did you hire these guys in the first place?

just by looking at people and talking to them you should be able to tell if their crooks or not

Sometimes it's easy to spot a sketchy GC, but other times it's not. There are a lot of people out there that are great at looking very professional and saying the right things. However, once it comes to the build and how they interact with their subs, then the truth can start to slowly come out.

Good GC's will usually not push their services and will give out a list of previous clients in order to show their work. A bad GC is like a used car salesman; sleek talk and just pushy enough to usually get their way regardless of what their client wants.

[highfive]

The problem with this is i wont have any money left over to complete the job once i pay the subs that have done there work like the company that provided the carpets and tiles is all done. I can afford to pay them with out losing money but what do i do if other people come after me for money that i don't have like the company that provided the the cabinets and counter tops

Also i don't think the liens will affect my grandparents because they do not have a mortgage on the house and they are not planning on selling it unless the lien will affect other things but to my understanding it shouldn't affect them

That's when you list out the work finished and the payments made to the contractor.

Carpets - Done - Paid to Contractor on X Date. (Show proof of contractor signing the receipt)
Cabinets - Partial Finish - Not Paid Yet.

etc.

The problem is that sub contracts can lien your grandparents property. And not being an asshole, but if anything happens to your grandparents or they are going through the stages of planning a will or change of ownership. That lien will be a problem for you.

It's just better to get the sub contracts AND the contractor on site and list what's been paid and what's not. If the contractor is shady, call him out on it that the money has been paid and that the sub contracts should go after him.

I remember in business law that even if a contractor runs, the house is still liable for works/materials done.

[Jas29]

So i talked to my lawyer today and tried to follow the steps in which he told me to take by calling the contractor and trying to take care of it before escalating the situation.

It didn't work i called him and he called me a stupid kid and that i don't know anything and i should shut up. Then i told him i changed the locks on the door and if he comes to the property again it will be considered trespassing which caused more yelling and swearing at me and that he will only talk to my dad or grandfather he then yelled some more and hung up

tom my dad is going to call him and tell him exactly what the lawyer said and see if he agrees with it.

The lawyer told me to offer him this

1)That i will keep 10% of the total of the project for 56 days after the completion date to make sure no liens are taken out on the property (liens can be taken out up to 45 days after the work is completed)

2) That the contractor and my grandparents go through the house and see how much work is left to do and we hold back that amount in till it is complete

3) That he signs a paper prepared by the lawyer stating that all subs are paid in full by the contractor and that he takes care of liens that are put on the house

(Note: #1 and #2 added together equals the total amount that he is due)

Edit: Highfive i know where u are coming from and they have already taken care of their will and are were in okay shape before this started my grandfather has been prescribed anti-depressants by his doctor for stress so this is taking a toll on them and that is 1 of the reasons i stepped in

[GLOW]

that's a tough situation hope it works out for you.

[Jas29]

Update: He called my dad in the morning and my dad told him we aren't doing anything till our lawyer tells us too... He said those are fighting words and that he's going to keep bothering us day and night he also threatened me telling my dad that he's going to rough up your son.

We told the lawyer and he said I can apply for a restraining order or get a police report made
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[Lomac]

Update: He called my dad in the morning and my dad told him we aren't doing anything till our lawyer tells us too... He said those are fighting words and that he's going to keep bothering us day and night he also threatened me telling my dad that he's going to rough up your son.

We told the lawyer and he said I can apply for a restraining order or get a police report made
Posted via RS Mobile

:facepalm:

Funny how threat of force is usually someone's last resort when they know they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

[GLOW]

Update: He called my dad in the morning and my dad told him we aren't doing anything till our lawyer tells us too... He said those are fighting words and that he's going to keep bothering us day and night he also threatened me telling my dad that he's going to rough up your son.

We told the lawyer and he said I can apply for a restraining order or get a police report made
Posted via RS Mobile

police report first. my friend had harassment/threat issues before & it's very important to leave a paper trail of evidence/reports of his actions. this could be ongoing and if/when it really builds up you want the history documented for a strong case. so far it sounds like he gave you a threat of bodily harm and harassment. hope it works out for you and you can get this scumbag out of your life.

[Ferra]

Getting a lien registered and enforced is fairly expensive, most contractors won't bother if they are owed less than $1000-$2000. Most of them have no idea how the construction lien works...they just like to use it as an empty threat
To enforce the lien, they have to take you to court within 45 days of the lien registration..(superior court only, no small claim court, which means they have to hire a lawyer and more $$$)
Reason why there is usually a 10% holdback for 45 days in construction project is so that the owner can use the holdback money to pay off any unpaid subcontractor and liens


Exactly how much work is left and how much money is still owed?
At this point, If i were you i really wouldn't let him come back to finish the project...

[Jas29]

he called us yesterday night like 10 times only answered 4 times recorded the first 2 then went to go file a police report but the police station was closed. He was drunk

8500 is still left to pay him probably a bit over 4500 left to do

he also took out the banister on Thursday we then changed the locks later that day

[quasi]

As a contractor, I can tell you that I've had people hand me checks, and cash with a set of purchase orders and contracts that I drew up myself. As a landlord, I have new tenants hand me cash and checks upon signing a lease that I printed off my own computer. Now, obviously, I'm not out to rip people off, but what about me says that to people? A gleam in my eye? My shoes?

Maybe if you could provide tips of what to look for in people, the whole con industry would disappear over night.

In short, it fucking happens. Not a single contractor that I know, and I deal with plenty, but not a one starts a job without a check in their hand, or a visa number in their terminal(actually, my paving guys didn't need anything, which I found weird), unless, they have worked for people before and know they are good for it. And many a contractor has an equal amount of stories about customers that didn't pay.


Everything I've seen has been the complete opposite and I've been doing this for a long time. Never any money up front, usually don't see any money until at least 45-60 days after starting a job. I like the way you've experienced a lot more, the subs have all the risk they finance the job yet they are last to be paid. It's such a fucked industry.

Maybe we should get out of commercial and into residential. :)


OP, sounds like you have your ducks in a row. Don't back down and keep doing what you're doing. I'm sorry your grandpa is having such a hard time with his reno this contractor sounds like a complete fuck. My mom actually hired some contractor to do her bathroom earlier this year and it was a total clusterfuck. She used a company who's name I can't remember and they sent out a subcontractor to do the work on there behalf. The guy they sent out estimated it and did the work. He totally fucked it up, 3 weeks into the bathroom reno he wasn't even half done and she complained about his shitty workmanship, he was doing so much wrong. Company comes out, see's work and fires the guy. They have to rip out all the work he did and restart and send someone else out. On top of all that when the guy priced it he priced it way to low. I estimate for a living and IMO that company probably lost at least $6,000 on my moms bathroom renovation but to there credit they finished the job and at the end of the day everything was made right. Even in bad times there are still people out there who stand behind there work and the end product.

[Jas29]

the lawyer told us its going to cost us to much to sue him, he said he would tell us to sue him if the bill was higher

so it looks like we are out of luck

[Lomac]

How about small claims court?

[quasi]

the lawyer told us its going to cost us to much to sue him, he said he would tell us to sue him if the bill was higher

so it looks like we are out of luck

It's a catch 22 really. If it was a larger amount even if you won you probably wouldn't get any money because this guy would just deplete any assets and reopen as Dipshit Contracting 2013 LTD. Generally speaking if you can use companies that have been around for a long time with a good reputation you might pay a little more but you get what you pay for.

These are the kind of companies I compete with a lot of time with my bids. It's a joke because they'll price a large commercial job like a highrise for less then my cost. Materials are a fixed cost and everybody pays close to the same. Labour again although can be slightly different and on tight bids can make the difference but the fluctuation isn't that huge.I constantly see people bidding at or below my cost and you know damm well they aren't making any money and if even the slightest thing goes wrong they are losing their shirt not to mention they have nothing to cover there overhead. It's funny but at the same time it's not because you know damm well there going to go bankrupt but the next day there back in business under a new name and people still sell to them, it's mind blowing.

[GLOW]

It's a catch 22 really. If it was a larger amount even if you won you probably wouldn't get any money because this guy would just deplete any assets and reopen as Dipshit Contracting 2013 LTD. Generally speaking if you can use companies that have been around for a long time with a good reputation you might pay a little more but you get what you pay for.

These are the kind of companies I compete with a lot of time with my bids. It's a joke because they'll price a large commercial job like a highrise for less then my cost. Materials are a fixed cost and everybody pays close to the same. Labour again although can be slightly different and on tight bids can make the difference but the fluctuation isn't that huge.I constantly see people bidding at or below my cost and you know damm well they aren't making any money and if even the slightest thing goes wrong they are losing their shirt not to mention they have nothing to cover there overhead. It's funny but at the same time it's not because you know damm well there going to go bankrupt but the next day there back in business under a new name and people still sell to them, it's mind blowing.

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/6/62/I-know-that-feel-bro.jpg

even big developers make shell companies too

[Jas29]

it looks like my brother has scared him into doing the work, he told my brother to make a list and he will do everything on the list and nothing more and we are okay with that just want to finish it so our grandparents don't have to worry about it, its taking a toll on them

Edit: well he did some of the work and now he called again and told us to give his money and we said the same thing then 3 hours later he called and said he took out all the cabinets so now we are going there to check if he did or not and then going to file a police report for theft and for making threats to a child

[Jas29]

Canadian laws are a joke dispatcher said its not considered theft since he was allowed into the house... They are now coming to file a police report for threats to a minor

Edit: nvm they are to busy
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[GLOW]

unfortunate that no one was there to monitor his work to ensure he did not do damage/theft to the home. now you'll have to change the locks as well if they still have the keys.

i'd check with the cop when they come to make a report for threats if what he did was indeed theft or not. i question if police dispatchers are police officers which leads me to question their knowledge of the law as an expert.

[Jas29]

We have pictures of everything inside the house and now took pictures showing the things that were missing

Edit: he called and told us he took the stuff

Edit: 7 hours since non emergency number was called so far no 1 has come to make a report or tell us whats going on
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[Jas29]

still no police report but 2 liens put on the house now

4000 + tax + fees from the painter
and
8000 + fees from the contractor -Bittu Dhillion- JD bros renovations also runs under Arsh Plumbing and heating LTD

[GLOW]

what is the next step? go to court to show proof of payment to the GC?

[G-spec]

Cut your ties with these idiots now !

They already committed more than one criminal offence, and yet you keep asking them to go back and finish the work..... do you REALLY want these guys in your house again, do you REALLY trust them to do anything right at this point ?

You don't owe them any money because they haven't finished the project, it's that simple....
Use the money to find a reputable contractor that will finish the job without stealing and threatening in their tactics.

And tell them to go fuck themselves and sue you if they want, the judge will laugh at them if it even ever gets to in front of a judge, and in this case unfortunately it would end up as a civil case not a criminal one, which is unfortunate because there is obviously a criminal element there with the stealing.

Dont believe a word the police dispatchers or any of those idiots tell you, if you want real answers go pay a lawyer for a simple sitdown that will explain to you everything you need to know, it beats coming in here asking us for advice.

[Jas29]

Gspec thanks for the response and me and my brother told my grandparents not to allow them into the house the first time he threatened but my grandfather became sick and the rest of the family told us to try to get the contractor to do the work so he doesn't become more sick.

The criminal part of the case that comes in is him taking stuff out that was in the house to begin with and that he wasn't supposed to change in the first place. The dispatcher said we allowed him into the house so its not a theft but we asked if u hire a maid and she steals ur jewlery is that not considered theft and she didn't know what to say

We have talked to a lawyer and know what steps to follow. He also told us that once a contractor puts something into ur house he cannot legally take it out and that it is a criminal offence

I'm posting in this thread to keep a log and some of the responses in this thread are helpful
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[R&R]

please keep us updated!

[Jas29]

Last friday my brother talked to a police officer and he said he couldn't do anything about the theft since we cant prove that the stuff was ours and that he can not act on threats but he did call the contractor and set up a meeting for the next day.

My brother and dad (The police officer said i'm not allowed to come since it may escalate the situation) went to meet the contractor and the police officer at the property he brought back most of the doors that day. The police officer also told him that if he threatens are family again he will take him to the police station for finger prints just in case something does happen.

The police officer got them to sign a piece of paper stating how much we would pay the painter, the carpet company and the contractor after all the work is completed. It also stated that all the work should be completed on monday oct 22.


We also found out that the painter put a lien on the house for 4000+tax+fees but he is only owed $3000. The contractor paid for the lien which cost $150 and wanted the extra $1480

We paid the carpet company on saturday and asked what happens if you put a lien for more then ur owed. they told us that since he lied about the lien amount he may be charged with fraud but they aren't sure since they have never done it. they also told us there is no point in going to small claims court because the judge can do w.e he wants to

So tom my brother and dad are going to the house while they do the work and i'm going to the lien office to get the paperwork and to ask what happens if i can prove that he is owed less then the lien amount.

[Selanne_200]

Unfortunately, it takes very little effort or proof to place a builders lien on a house so he may be overcharging on the lien but it'll take you a while to correct that. But then as others have stated before, in order to enforce a builder's lien, they would have to go through supreme court of B.C. and hire a lawyer to do so, therefore it is very unlikely anything will come of the builder's lien. Also, a builder's lien can expire after a certain amount of time"I think one year" if the contractor does not act to enforce it (So they can't just keep renewing the lien on the house and that's it). Also, yes at small claims the judge can do w.e. he wants to but if you have been keeping track of all the paperwork and trail of evidence, it looks like you have overwhelming evidence on your side. The only thing is even if you win a judgement at small claims, it's not worth it for you to enforce the order if the contractor refuses to pay. I'm sure your lawyer told you what to do next but I'm not sure why after all this, you guys still agree to have him come back and finish the job. The logical approach is to let him know that he's canned, you're going to bring someone else in to finish the job and whatever extra you end up paying, you're going to back-charge him for it. Get an independent appraiser to do and appraisal of all the work done and how much it is worth, pay him that amount and tell him to get the fuck out

[Jas29]

Our lawyer told us the cheapest way to get the work done is to just let him do it if hes willing to do it and after the police officer talked to him he is willing to do it

yes the lien only last a year and only affects you if you have a mortgage or are planning on selling the house we don't plan on doing either of these things so we should be fine.

He wont take us to court since he doesn't have the resources to do so at least we don't think he does especially over this small of an amount the lawyer fees would be more then what we owe him

also on the lien part if we can prove with an invoice that the amount is less do they decrease it not sure how it works going to ask tom

I'll post the painters info tom the person we are dealing with is the owner just not 100% on the company name he hasn't told us. I do know he lives in abbotsford

Edit: does anyone know where u can buy security cameras from?

[GLOW]

my friend had some IP motion LED/cameras from costco for $100-ish. not sure how good they are. but if you got to a place that specializes in cameras you can get some really nice ones I think in the $300 range. that's from overhearing a guy talking to a security contractor, so i don't know where to get those from.

[Selanne_200]

yes it would be cheaper for him to finish the job but at this point, even if he comes back, he's not going to do a very good job. (he probably didn't do a good job in the first place anyways). As far as cameras, I can let you know after I receive the invoice for mine. You can always go to security companies (citilock, action) and see if you can buy from thrm
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[Jas29]

Thanks for the responses guys

todays update

The contractor is doing the work at the house poorly but hes still doing it we don't really care at this point as long as its done

The painter came wearing a dress shirt and tie demanding a cheque so he could go deposit it before starting the work so my brother told him we will give him a post dated cheque then and date it for toms date and to give me(my brother) the invoice and he said no but gave him the invoice my brother took a picture of it and sent it to me at this point he starts yelling at my brother saying he wants his money and the invoice back since its his property he took the invoice and continued yelling at him so my brother told him to get out of our house and if you comeback we will be calling the police and he left.

I went to the lien office in new west and got a copy of the lien at the bottom of the paper there is a note saying

"section 45 of the builders lien Act provides as follows:
45 (1) A person who knowingly files or causes an agent to file a claim of lien containing a false statement commits an offence.
(2) A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) is liable to a fine not exceeding the greater of $2,000 and the amount by which the stated claim exceeds the actual claim"

the lien is for $4800.00

His invoice that i have a picture of is for
Total Cost of Paint and Labour: $3,000.00
HST: 360.00
Total amount due: $3,360.00

Edit: His company Name is Herbie's Painting and his name is Herbie Pahal

[GLOW]

bump any update? hope it worked out well for you.

[blkgsr]

is this clown white or what?

go tell him to fuck off and he's not getting a cent

back charge him for delay of completion along with loss revenue from renting, legal fees due to his bull shit and the lien his subtrades put on the house....make all this equal what you "owe" him

[Jas29]

no hes east indian

he kept on delaying the work so we told him to fuck off.

me, my brother and dad went and finished all the work we could do ourselves had to hire some subs to complete the rest of the work.

He called a couple of weeks after that telling my dad that I was calling him with a private number so we had to call the police officer and file another report for harassment haven't heard from him since

spent around 600-700 dollars getting the rest done + our time

as it stands the house is complete enough to rent still missing some small things it is rented though.

1 lien on the house for 4800.00
contractor said hes going to put a lien on the house for all the money we owed him which was like 89xx.xx(this is including what he owes the painter). Never checked to see if he did put a lien on the house

here's his info so no 1 else gets screwed over

Bittu Dhillion- JD bros renovations also runs under Arsh Plumbing and heating LTD

Herbie Pahal- Herbie's Painting

[CRS]

http://www.linkdirectory.ca/static/media/pictures/JD-Bros-Renovation.jpg

Had to google and actually look to find this.

What made you choose this guy? I can't find any reviews or anything for that matter anywhere about this guy/company.

[Soundy]

What made you choose this guy? I can't find any reviews or anything for that matter anywhere about this guy/company.

Of course not - he was probably under a completely different name up until the last lawsuit.

[blkgsr]

no hes east indian

and that's what i expected

[Jas29]

Grandparents hired him didn't ask anyone else... He was working at another house in our neighborhood and was willing to start right away
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[Gt-R R34]

After reading this thread...I"m just going to hire Quasi for any job I need.

[GLOW]

After reading this thread...I"m just going to hire Quasi for any job I need.

after reading this thread i want to register for this class i saw on building lien law.

glad OP got the house in order to some extent. hopefully you can get the liens removed.