Alibaba and the Forty Thieves (not quite)

[dangonay]

Actually it's Alibaba, Aliyun, Acer and Google involved in their own little drama.

Some reading...

Acer plans Alibabi Aliyun OS Smartphone

Google Pressures Acer

Google Can't Have It Both Ways


Coles Notes: Alibaba makes its own OS called Aliyun which is a Linux/Android hybrid. Acer makes a smartphone that runs Aliyun and plans to release it. Google threatens to pull Acer's membership in the OHA (Open Handset Alliance) which would prevent Acer from releasing "official" Android phones with full access to Google's services and store. Acer cancels the release of their new smartphone.

Companies can use Android one of two ways.

1. If you're a member of the OHA (like most Android smartphone vendors are) then you're allowed to use Android and modify it, but your modifications are limited to ensure that your version remains compatible with the others out there. This lets you put the little green robot on your phone and gets you access to Google Play and the rest of Google's products/services.

2. If you're not a member, you can take Android and modify it any way you see fit. Google can't prevent this as they give Android away as "open source". This is what Amazon did when they made their own version for the Kindle Fire tablets. This is also what Alibaba did when they made Aliyun.


The "grey" area is that Acer did not develop Aliyun. They are simply making a phone that runs it (similar to making a phone that runs any other OS such as WP8 or "regular" Android). Google bullied Acer the same way that MS used to bully OEM's over Windows licensing. Even funnier is Google was sued by Oracle (which Oracle lost) for this exact same thing - taking Java and forking it. Now that companies are forking Android suddenly Google is all up in arms.


As Forbes stated, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[R5x]

lol. Aliyun has icons that look quite similar to iOS. Maybe Google should just allow it and let Apple sue them out of existence.

[Hehe]

I personally don't see anything wrong about what Google did.

OHA has Android at its core. Acer, being a member of OHA receives supports and many technical expertise to produce an Android compatible handset.

If Acer were to go to Aliyun, which itself is an OS derived from Android, it's a direct violation of the OHA member terms. Acer can't have it both way. (wanting to leech on the support it receives from OHA and not adhere to its limitations) Acer wanted to play the fool, so Google had to play the hard way.

Acer is in the wrong here because it tries to benefit from both sides. If it really got balls, it would leave OHA, and develop their Android and Aliyun handset independently without the support from Google or any other OHA members' contribution.

[dangonay]

^ I don't think it's that cut & dry.

Google has a history of being open source when it suits them, and being closed and maintaining control when it suits them. They have been all over the map the past few years.

According to the OHA, OEM's are allowed to sell devices with competitors OS's (like Windows Phone). Aliyun is a stand-alone OS product, and Alibaba is legally allowed to use Android as they see fit. Acer didn't develop it - they just made a phone that would run it. Acer wants to sell Android phones, Aliyun phones and Windows phones. Google telling them they can't sell Aliyun phones is no different than telling them they can't sell Windows phones.

Google making Android available open source is not turning out how they hoped. They would love to see lots of smaller companies making Android devices, whether they be phones, tablets, cameras or even refrigerators and appliances. Let these companies use Android for free so they can try it out. And along the way some of them will become very successful and "graduate" into using "licensed" Android and become part of the Google family (and finally making Google some $$$).

But something happened they didn't expect - two very large companies (Amazon & Alibaba) forked Android into completely separate OS's. Amazon took Android and used it to make themselves a successful product. A product that doesn't make any money for Google. Alibaba now has plans to do the same thing. I can't imagine how pissed Google is with Amazon and the fact they can't do a damned thing about. Now Alibaba wants to do the same with their OS.

Since Google can't do anything legally to stop Alibaba they strong-armed Acer. But Acer isn't the only company out there and I'm sure many are watching this ready to step in (many Android vendors are not OHA members). Google can't put the genie back in the bottle so this move to stop Acer is like putting your finger in the dike.

[R5x]

Originally Posted by dangonay

According to the OHA, OEM's are allowed to sell devices with competitors OS's (like Windows Phone). Aliyun is a stand-alone OS product, and Alibaba is legally allowed to use Android as they see fit. Acer didn't develop it - they just made a phone that would run it. Acer wants to sell Android phones, Aliyun phones and Windows phones. Google telling them they can't sell Aliyun phones is no different than telling them they can't sell Windows phones.

The way I see it, Acer willingly agreed to be part of OHA, and those rules specifically state that they cannot support another Android platform that fragments Android itself (Aliyun); however they are allowed to build handsets for other platforms (eg. Windows Phone) without repercussions. Acer can opt out of OHA if they want, which is essentially what Google is telling (or threatening) them with.

Google explains why it stopped Acer's Aliyun smartphone launch (updated) | The Verge

Originally Posted by dangonay

Google making Android available open source is not turning out how they hoped. They would love to see lots of smaller companies making Android devices, whether they be phones, tablets, cameras or even refrigerators and appliances. Let these companies use Android for free so they can try it out. And along the way some of them will become very successful and "graduate" into using "licensed" Android and become part of the Google family (and finally making Google some $$$).

But something happened they didn't expect - two very large companies (Amazon & Alibaba) forked Android into completely separate OS's. Amazon took Android and used it to make themselves a successful product. A product that doesn't make any money for Google. Alibaba now has plans to do the same thing. I can't imagine how pissed Google is with Amazon and the fact they can't do a damned thing about. Now Alibaba wants to do the same with their OS.

Since Google can't do anything legally to stop Alibaba they strong-armed Acer. But Acer isn't the only company out there and I'm sure many are watching this ready to step in (many Android vendors are not OHA members). Google can't put the genie back in the bottle so this move to stop Acer is like putting your finger in the dike.

I haven't been following this that closely, so I'm unsure if all that you wrote above is purely speculation about Google being 'pissed off' or if there is actually some truth behind it. I don't recall Google expressing any problems with Amazon, but who knows what they're really thinking. But regardless, I only want to comment on the whole "open source"/"openness" of Android.

As I understand it, "Android" itself can be loosely divided into 2 parts: Android Open Source Project (AOSP) and the OHA.
AOSP is open source and anyone can take the OS and build whatever they want out of it (eg. Aliyun, Amazon's Kindle Fire OS, cyanogenmod and all the custom AOSP roms, etc.)

OHA is not open and is a "walled-off" agreement between handset makers and Google in a sense because you either play by Google's rules and get support (access to Playstore, bundled Gapps, voting power for features of next Android, etc.) or you're out. In this case Acer didn't play by their rules so Google is reminding them. Acer can't be both in support of "Android fragmentation" AND be part of OHA by definition of the agreement they signed with Google.
If other companies not part of OHA want to use Aliyun, there is nothing Google can do and it's part of the two-headed 'open source' beast they created which I'm sure they were probably always aware of. Google has every right to protect their own interests though; which in this case is their own ecosystem and companies that agreed to work with them.

Does that mean Google is not as "open" as everyone thinks? Maybe? But regardless, nobody is forcing Acer to do anything they don't want to. The choice is still up to them.

[FerrariEnzo]

Google made Open-Source for people to convert it for their OWN personal use but companies are making it for profit, which was not the initial intent of it.

How can you blame Google for blacking aliyun to access Google Store and all its software? Those are Google products and not Alibaba... Alibaba can make their own store/software for their OWN OS that they modded. Google isnt stopping Alibaba from making their Google Store clone..

[Hehe]

The approach Google is taking is to minimize fragmentation of the Android eco-system as well as establish a guideline that protects the Android reputation.

Amazon is not an OHA member and thus is not bound by the OHA limitation. Alibaba is also not an OHA member. So it too can do whatever it wishes.

Acer, on the other hand is an OHA member and therefore should comply with the OHA guidelines. If it decides to not comply to the rules, it would lose any and all OHA member privilege.

[dangonay]

^ It's too late to minimize fragmentation considering how big Amazon and Alibaba are.

What is Android's primary purpose? To make Google money. They're not giving it away for free because they're being nice. It's so they can get users into their eco-system and using their services. This is why I think (although Google is silent) that they're pissed with Amazon. Look at how many Kindle Fires Amazon has sold compared to the rest of the Android tablets. And now they've just expanded their Kindle line with new tablets. All that money going into Amazon's pockets using software that Google developed.

Samsung is also getting into the game. Google expects Android users to rely on their services. Looking at all the services Samsung has announced this year (like Music Hub with Scan & Match or S-Cloud), it seems clear they want to be like Apple and Amazon and have control of the hardware, software and content. They want to have a complete eco-system all on their own. This has the exact same effect as Amazon - money that could go to Google is now going to someone else (Samsung). Google has also remained silent on this, but I wonder what they're thinking about Samsung investing heavily in services that duplicate what Google offers? Especially since Samsung is so large and sells so many devices that they basically are Android.

If Samsung fully develops their own eco-system than that means the majority of Android devices (at least the ones people care about) will be using something other than Google. I don't think Google can let that happen which is why I think they're going to really start to crack down on vendors. Though I think Samsung is now too large for Google to do anything about.

[R5x]

I don't think Samsung can develop the ecosystem as fully as something like Amazon has. I mean they "could" but then all their Android devices would lose the right to use gapps, the google Play store, or access to the majority of the apps which would turn away most Android users. At least I know I would stop using Samsung Android products in that case.