[Akinari]

I was able to participate in BMW's latest drive test event at Cypress, featuring the new F30 328i xDrive and the 335i xDrive. I frequently drive an LCI E90 323i when the Element is being used by my folks while they're taking the dog, so I do know how BMW's handle and such. With that being said, during a polisci lecture I was browsing through Facebook (:troll:) and I just happened to see BMW post info on their 3 Series Comparison Drive event and I literally jumped at the opportunity.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/385082_10151105779148823_1938912459_n.jpg

The event itself was held in the parking lot of Cypress, basically the entire area cordoned off and transformed into an auto-x track. Unfortunately I wasn't able to take many photos :fuckthatshit: too much excitement driving all those vehicles, however I will provide reviews for the driving aspect of all these vehicles, since ergonomics/appearance/interior styling is totally subjective.

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https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/548613_10151105779413823_1992773898_n.jpg

The first event featured the BMW 328i xDrive, up against the Mercedes-Benz C300 4Matic and the Audi A4 2.0 TFSI Quattro. There was a short slalom section, as well as a skidpad-esque setup with sand on the turn to simulate loss of grip.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/227567_10151105779643823_279584454_n.jpg

First Test

Impressions

328i xDrive
With 241hp and 258lb-ft of torque, this car was the speediest and most responsive of the bunch. There is seriously no indication at all that under the hood is only a 2.0L turbo 4-cyl engine. In fact, it was only after I returned home and went online to check the specs of the 328i that I realized it was a 4-cyl engine. Power delivery is linear without a single bit of turbo lag, with that 258lb-ft of torque available from just 1250rpm. The xDrive AWD system is also the best of the bunch, being able to transfer 100% of power to the front or rear wheels, and performed the best in the ice simulation, never once understeering. The car felt under control and quite tossable at all times, definitely a fun car to drive. My only complaint is the new F30 steering is ridiculously light compared to anything else I've ever driven, including the E90 steering.

C300 4Matic
Having the lowest power out of all three vehicles, the C300 certainly did not feel as slow as it should have. With that being said, Mercedes-Benz is definitely not known for their sportiness, and that was definitely reflected in the handling characteristics of the C300. The car felt significantly heavier than the 328i, and the ancient 4Matic system (with a 45/55 permanent split) was definitely ousted by the electronic xDrive system. One thing I must commend the C300 on however, is how stable and planted it felt through the corners, which I really attacked. Even though it felt much more loose in comparison to the rowdy 328i, it still felt surprisingly comfortable even when pushed to the limits.

A4 2.0 TFSI Quattro
Having a mechanical AWD system definitely feels different than BMW's electronic xDrive. The handling characteristics of the A4 are superb, dare I say even better than the F30, but in a different way. The A4 stays firmly planted gripping the road at all times, which is very confidence assuring. Furthermore, I felt the steering feel was the best out of all three vehicles, the perfect blend of weight and smoothness. It did indeed feel heavier than the 328i as well, but the A4 certainly deserves to be put up against the new F30.

The second event featured the BMW 335i xDrive (with and without the M-Package), the Acura TL SH-AWD and the Infiniti G37x. The track was set up similarly to the first track, but with more space allowing for significantly quicker speeds to be achieved.

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Second Test

Impressions

335i xDrive
My god this thing is fast, and the M-Package springs/dampers allow the car to go through the slalom without even flinching. Flick the sport mode switch and put the transmission into sport mode, and it seriously is like a beast, a very refined one at that as well. The throttle response is out of this world, the brakes are superb, and the steering, though still a little too light for my tastes, is unbelievably direct. What I loved about this car was its tendency to slightly oversteer at the limit, which really proved to be rewarding since both the G37x and the TL, particularly the TL, understeered under high speed cornering. The car sounds great, has a superb transmission which shifts almost instantaneously, it handles great, it has superb chassis dynamics, it's really an excellent vehicle that leaves nothing to be criticized.

Acura TL SH-AWD
I've always had a thing for the Acura TL, and though the styling is rather controversial, secretly I loved it, so I was definitely excited to be driving the top-of-the-line, "highly-acclaimed" AWD model. I must say, I was disappointed. In comparison to the G37x and the 335i, the suspension is much too soft, with the most stroke out of all three vehicles I'd say. The car felt unsafe through the slalom, and the braking response really wasn't on par with the other two vehicles. At the final high speed corner, the car was understeering so much, front tires squealing and all, that I actually had to let off the pedal and brake a bit to avoid crushing a couple cones. The chassis had a much higher centre of gravity in comparison to the other two vehicles, and similar to how the C300 performed in the first test, the car is simply not meant for spirited driving the same way the G37x and the 335i are. Not only is the car too soft, everything feels strangely loose, definitely not a very confidence-aspiring feeling, so I'm rather disappointed. The transmission also blows as well, upshifting at the strangest times, making the overall experience very herky-jerky. The only really positive thing I can comment on is probably how much I loved the interior layout :badpokerface:

Infiniti G37x
Seeing the G37x out there all alone with its 17" wheels and monster truck tires made me a little skeptical as to why BMW didn't choose to bring in the S version, but nevertheless, the vehicle performed very well. In contrast to the TL, this vehicle actually had a rather direct steering feel, going through the slalom with ease, as well as the final high speed corner with only a bit of understeer. Overall, the car mimicked the feel of the 335i, being equally tossable, so in that sense I will say that Infiniti did a great job at nailing the handling characteristics of the G37 sedan. The transmission wasn't on par with the 335i, but it was miles better than the TL, upshifting when you want it to. The VQ37 sounds great, but seriously lacks torque. This engine needs to be revved hard to get going when compared to the 335i. My only real complaint about the car is that the rear could be stiffened up a bit, but otherwise I wouldn't mind driving this car.

All in all, I definitely had a great experience putting all of these cars to the test. I wish I brought my Go-Pro, as there were other drivers who did so, so all I can provide are images!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536405_10151105779763823_813132365_n.jpg
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I'm not a BMW-whore in any sense, but damn they really nailed it with the 335i. I simply cannot describe in words how unbelievably great the car feels to drive, in all possible senses. If only I could somehow put the E90 steering feel onto the F30 then it would be simply perfect.

EDIT: Gave me a free "BMW window cleaner" sample along with a $500 off downpayment voucher for any lease or purchase of a new BMW in the next 90 days. Won't be using it however, I can barely afford my own living expenses :badpokerface:

[dygital]

Wonder why they didn't put an S4 there:badpokerface:

[BillyBishop]

FYI those are F30s, not F10s :) The F10 is the 5 series

[Shorn]

S4 is not included because it's not in the same class as a 335. It's priced in between 335 and m3.
Posted via RS Mobile

[sekin67835]

S4 is not included because it's not in the same class as a 335. It's priced in between 335 and m3.
Posted via RS Mobile

roughly the same horsepower though. I think the price is more closer to a 335 than a m3

[Ferra]

S4 is not included because it's not in the same class as a 335. It's priced in between 335 and m3.
Posted via RS Mobile
S4 is definitely in the same class and price point as 335i
(Base S4 is $54,000, Base 335i xdrive $53,800)
and i remember a fully load 335xi actually costs a few thousand dollars more than a fully loaded S4
Wonder why they didn't put an S4 there:badpokerface:
Actually..i think S4 is usually the biggest contender for people looking to get the 335i...but BMW was probably thinking: :fuckthatshit: i am not putting our car up against something faster

Btw...F10 is new 5 series, the new 3 series are F30

[FatalCloud]

akinari-kun, which time session were you in? i was there for 9:20am. pretty much agree with you mostly, the best cars were the audi a4 and 335i sport package, i loved the TL until they made the styling change and was i disappointed as well...felt slow/heavy and braking sucked. c300 was terrible in handling as well.

[Akinari]

akinari-kun, which time session were you in? i was there for 9:20am. pretty much agree with you mostly, the best cars were the audi a4 and 335i sport package, i loved the TL until they made the styling change and was i disappointed as well...felt slow/heavy and braking sucked. c300 was terrible in handling as well.
I was in the 3:10 to 5:40 time session.

[westopher]

My old roommate from edmonton was there. He works in sales for Edmonton bmw, and told me about this. I'm jelly. Sounded fun.

[pastarocket]

Akinari-kun, do you know how car test arrangements are made by the instructors if you're bringing a friend to Cypress? Do they allow the guest driver to drive three cars in either the first or second test? I'm figuring that to be fair to my buddy and myself, he can drive the 328xi, the Mercedes C300 and the A4 first.

Then I can drive in the second test so that I can test the 335xi. :awwyeah:

If there's time for me and my friend to drive all six cars in both tests, that's even better.

-going to Cypress this Sunday. Woo hoo!

[Akinari]

I actually brought my pops with me, so for each vehicle they essentially require you to switch drivers, but you go through each vehicle so everyone gets a chance to drive each vehicle.

[HonestTea]

Where do you sign up? Is it too late now?

[yray]

xDrive :fuckthatshit: I powerslide with that thing on :troll:

did they let you try the car with DSC and DTC off?

[Harvey Specter]

I had a loaner 335i 2 weeks ago, I wasn't impressed it. The classic feel of the 3 series seems like it's disappearing with every new model but I'm interested to see how the m3 version does.

And i'm still baffled with BMW and these new models they're coming out with, like why in the heck do you need a 4 series model? I thought the 4 series was basically the new 3 series coupe re-badged but now I read that BMW is coming out with a 4 series sedan.

[yray]

^ so they can charge more money

but no asians will drive a 444is :troll:

[Akinari]

xDrive :fuckthatshit: I powerslide with that thing on :troll:

did they let you try the car with DSC and DTC off?
They let the driver tweak any setting they wanted to. All they said was to avoid tire squeal and all in all, keep the car in control. There was a one-strike rule in effect like almost all events of this sort.

And for those asking, yes it is unfortunately too late to sign up now.

[maxx]

they didnt put the s4 there cause it killed the 335i 3 years ago and is still killing it

they made the 3 softer and fatter, while the a/s 4 became what bmws used to drive like cept with a lot nicer interior and better looks.

[icemiko]

I was there today, the event itself was pretty good. Definitely better then last year's xDrive event.

[pastarocket]

A good event to test out the 328xi and 335xi against German and Japanese sports sedans. -awesome driving experiene.

Thanks for the window cleaner BMW! :)

[Akinari]

Much better than Windex, which is what I'm used to using. For some reason my dog's nose always leaves really hard-to-clean stains on the windows, that magic BMW stuff works wonders.

[Z3guy]

they didnt put the s4 there cause it killed the 335i 3 years ago and is still killing it

they made the 3 softer and fatter, while the a/s 4 became what bmws used to drive like cept with a lot nicer interior and better looks.

You can argue that Audi has nicer interior design compared to BMW, but as far as quality of materials are concern, BMW is ahead. I have both and can say Audi have too much vw dna in them, which is not a bad thing, just not as premium as BMW materials

[Akinari]

I definitely agree that the Audi has a more "dynamically appealing" interior, however BMW has the better fit and finish overall.

[pastarocket]

-took video from my iPhone of other drivers testing the Beemers and the competitor's sedans on Sunday. Screeching tires and loads of fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYuwMVwQuk0&feature=youtu.be

[!SG]

last event i went to was when they launched the f10. i got told to slow down going thru the cones though i didnt hit one nor squeal tires nor lose control. first time around was told to keep under 50 to experience the 4ws. 2nd time was told to go as fast as i could, so i did, then i got told i was going too fast.

[F30]

I am biased because I already own F30, so adding an opinion would do no good. Let me add an image that speaks for itself. This is on my 328i. :fullofwin:

[JoshuaWong]

I am biased because I already own F30, so adding an opinion would do no good. Let me add an image that speaks for itself. This is on my 328i. :fullofwin:

5.5l/100km ... :ahwow:

[maxx]

You can argue that Audi has nicer interior design compared to BMW, but as far as quality of materials are concern, BMW is ahead. I have both and can say Audi have too much vw dna in them, which is not a bad thing, just not as premium as BMW materials

i disagree with you on the premium materials but only for the 2013 models and up. the a4 has now the beauford oak trim that you can find in the a6 and a7 and all the aluminum trimming make it look like a much more expensive car.

also, the S4 is still the single car under 80 grand (or so) to have real carbon fiber inside, whereis the M3, doesnt.

to be fair, and ive owned lots of bmws and still do and now i own a new audi as well - both have nice interiors, albeit the new BMW wood is properly terrible, and the new unpolished Ash and Oak in the A6/7 is truly incredible.

[Energy]

I am biased because I already own F30, so adding an opinion would do no good. Let me add an image that speaks for itself. This is on my 328i. :fullofwin:

:fuuuuu:

[Akinari]

last event i went to was when they launched the f10. i got told to slow down going thru the cones though i didnt hit one nor squeal tires nor lose control. first time around was told to keep under 50 to experience the 4ws. 2nd time was told to go as fast as i could, so i did, then i got told i was going too fast.
da fuq, F10 has 4WS? Totally didn't know that, I thought it was a thing of the past.

[ncrx]

was there for the 1120 time slot, was fun. i didn't find the tl all that bad, but i was left footing it round the longer bend.

[srv777]

I was at the event as well on Fri morning. A few comments:

- 335i was very powerful, but there is significant turbo lag. 328i is not as bad, but A4 was best in terms of throttle response of the turbo charged cars.
- all the 3 series certainly handled the best around the corners, especially the 335i M-sport model.
- TL actually felt pretty good. Exterior styling is not great, but handling was very nice.
- G37x felt the worst, with severe understeer and severe pitching and side to side motion. Probably would be a better test with G37Sx.

In the end, very well run event that is leaps and bounds better than the VW event last month.

[Z3guy]

That is kinda lame, BMW didn't have the balls to bring out a s4.....most people who consider buying a bimmer,also consider Audi

[too_slow]

S4 is not included because it's not in the same class as a 335. It's priced in between 335 and m3.
Posted via RS Mobile

The 335i M-Sport costs more than a base S4, and the S4 is fully loaded except for NAV.

[Z3guy]

^ are you sure the S4 is fully loaded? is the torque vectoring diff standard? I thought their is a ton of options available on a S4.

[too_slow]

^Huh? Does the F30 335i X-drive a torque vectoring system? I thought the only torque vectoring systems were found on: TL SH-AWD, S4 + Sport Diff + Saab 93 XWD

Either way, a base S4 + sport diff (torque vectoring AWD) is still cheaper than a 335XiM last time I checked. :)

[Energy]

I was at the event as well on Fri morning. A few comments:

- 335i was very powerful, but there is significant turbo lag. 328i is not as bad, but A4 was best in terms of throttle response of the turbo charged cars.


I'm surprised that you found significant turbo lag on the F30. I have an e92 335i and there is no/very little turbo lag with the n54 engine and the n55 in the F30 makes torque at an even lower rpm. Maybe this has something to do with the electronic throttle?

[Z3guy]

^Huh? Does the F30 335i X-drive a torque vectoring system? I thought the only torque vectoring systems were found on: TL SH-AWD, S4 + Sport Diff + Saab 93 XWD

Either way, a base S4 + sport diff (torque vectoring AWD) is still cheaper than a 335XiM last time I checked. :)

you are not comparing apples to apples, Audi option lists are massive, so are BMWs...so if you compare pricing, base to base or fully loaded to fully loaded

[Roach]

Energy, I agree. My 135i has zero turbo lag. One of my favourite powerplants.

5.5L/100km is possible for a short stretch but overall I averaged 7.5L/100km with my old F30 over about 4000kms. 70/30 highway/city ratio.

My only gripe with the F30 was the steering feel. Too light. The 135i makes me realize what BMW steering is all about.

Kev

[too_slow]

you are not comparing apples to apples, Audi option lists are massive, so are BMWs...so if you compare pricing, base to base or fully loaded to fully loaded

How is it not apples to apples?
S4 base model = $53000, 335i X Drive base model = $53800 MSRP

[Z3guy]

^ So $800 on a $53K car is way more expensive???????????

[too_slow]

^I was trying to argue that the S4 slots above the 335Xi in performance, even though from a marketing standpoint, one can argue that the 'S' can go against the 'M' car, even though the price for a base model 335 i AWD is the same as the S4.

Either way, I think there's enough 335i vs S4 debate on Bimmerforums, so I don't want to derail this thread further. I only like wagon/hatchback body styles, so both cars do not appeal to me. (I will kill for a 335i or a S4 wagon though)

I still haven't warmed up to the nose/grille on the F30, though I might be able to make an exception with the wagon style (a car bra can hide the nose nicely..)
http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2012-bmw-3-series-touring-14-e1336956498699.jpeg

[wstce92]

The 335i M-Sport costs more than a base S4, and the S4 is fully loaded except for NAV.

Fully loaded except for NAV my ass, you don't get keyless entry on the base S4 for one; tons of differences between the base and premium S4.

[UFO]

I have to echo that it was a fun and very well organized run. Obviously lots of BMW coolaid being passed around during the marketing session. I think this caused me to expect the BMW to be head and shoulders above the competition, and IMO I didn't find that the case at all. The 335 had more raw power than the 328 on the butt dyno at these lower speeds the difference was only slight, but the 328 felt more responsive--huge powerplant upgrade from the old NA i6.

I felt the A4 drove as well as the 328 on the course, I managed to get the 328 to understeer in the skidpad which was a bit disappointed with all the propaganda we were fed. I'm a bigger fan of the A4 styling over the 3's as well. The C class felt like a boat and it was soft, but it was comfortable.

In the 335 segment, the 335 was the clear overall winner. But the TL surprised for how big the car was and being non-RWD based, and it was easy to drive. The G37 was a good car, but fell a distant 3rd IMO.

FWIW I was scrolling through the display on some of the vehicles, they were all averaging north of 35L/100km :D

[yray]

^ turbo and hard driving = bad fuel econ :lawl:

[!SG]

the lux car segment of small luxury 4wd:
bmw 328xi
bmw 335xi
mb 300 4matic
mb 350 4matic
audi a4
audi s4
volvo s60
vw jetta? passat?

acura tl sh-awd
infiniti g37x
lexus is250 awd
lexus is350 awd
hyundai genesis???

pretty competitive segment.

[UFO]

^If the Jetta makes it on the list, the Subaru Legacy deserves a nod too, arguably with the best AWD system

^ turbo and hard driving = bad fuel econ :lawl:

Not just the turbo cars, the NA cars too.

[hk20000]

Tried to go to the Mini version of the same event the other day but it was so foggy they cancelled the event :okay:

Silent hill drive up the Cypress Bowl Road I knew something was up...

[Matsuda]

I was up there on Sunday morning, they let us drive but pushed us 30mins later cause of the fog.

[Tapioca]

I had a loaner 335i 2 weeks ago, I wasn't impressed it. The classic feel of the 3 series seems like it's disappearing with every new model but I'm interested to see how the m3 version does.


Of course the classic 3-series feel is disappearing with every subsequent generation because BMW is a small car company and they need to appeal to the masses. Not only that, but cars are now disposable commodities, so they need to build cars that have the latest and greatest gadgetry at the expense of "driving feel". BMW hasn't been an enthusiast's company since the last E39 rolled off the production line. My dad who has both an E36 and E46 drove a loaner E90 a few months ago. He said, "WTF is this shit?" when he drove the E90 loaner. The N-series engines sound like ass compared to the earlier M50-54 engines. (The M20/M30 sounds the best of all, btw.)

Forced induction, non-driver oriented controls, iDrive, the lack of the familiar in-line six "song", and automatics. BMW is just like the rest.

/rant

[Jason00S2000]

Energy, I agree. My 135i has zero turbo lag. One of my favourite powerplants.

5.5L/100km is possible for a short stretch but overall I averaged 7.5L/100km with my old F30 over about 4000kms. 70/30 highway/city ratio.

My only gripe with the F30 was the steering feel. Too light. The 135i makes me realize what BMW steering is all about.

Kev


I agree fully.


My 135i was a joy to drive, zero lag at all. My only complaint was the open diff.

[srv777]

@ Energy and Roach. During the drive, we are off and on the throttle aggressively. It definitely took "much" longer on the 335i and 328i vs. the NA engines. Not sure how much of that delay is due to turbo lag or throttle response.

The cars were all in Sport modes.