[Jgresch]

:( On the other side of the car there is a mangled motorcycle with a couple helmets on the ground. Don't have details of what happened but news crew is there etc. The few intersections on that stretch of Burrard are so dangerous, at least an accident a week.

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss188/Jgreschner/2012-11-09095625.jpg

[Traum]

Hope the riders are gonna be ok.

Any particular reason why that stretch is so accident-prone? Typically, I only drive through that area a handful of times in a year, and I don't really notice anything out of the ordinary, other than that there are quite a few traffic lights on that stretch of Burrard.

[Jgresch]

Hope the riders are gonna be ok.

Any particular reason why that stretch is so accident-prone? Typically, I only drive through that area a handful of times in a year, and I don't really notice anything out of the ordinary, other than that there are quite a few traffic lights on that stretch of Burrard.

Lots of jaywalkers, cyclists, cars trying to get across 5 lanes, I think it's just a lot of different stuff going on sometimes when it's busy and 2nd and 3rd don't have a traffic light.

[nabs]

:(
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/530741_10151243454395040_1928336178_n.jpg

[GLOW]

Looks like at least 1 dead
http://www.revscene.net/forums/676385-one-dead-motorcycle-collision-vancouver.html

[tofu1413]

yikes man... looks like the bike was going quite fast.

RIP.


Jgresch // quite a view from FMOV!

[dink]

Few blocks away from Carter...

The bike is FUBAR, holy crap.
RIP.

[7seven]

Confirmed 2 dead

News1130 ‏@News1130radio
JUST IN: @VancouverPD confirms the Burrard/2nd Ave crash was a fatal. A man and woman, who were both were on a motorcycle, have died

[Inaii]

RIP

[Traum]

Confirmed 2 dead
Ugh... that sucks...

RIP.

[TPMarko]

Lots of jaywalkers, cyclists, cars trying to get across 5 lanes, I think it's just a lot of different stuff going on sometimes when it's busy and 2nd and 3rd don't have a traffic light.

this and drivers in this city are just getting shittier and shittier in general anyway.

[gdoh]

at the end of the season too

RIP

[swfk]

Hope speed wasn't an issue but either way, rest in peace for the motorcyclists

[eurovan]

RIP

[7seven]

2nd and 3rd cutting across Burrard is extremely dangerous. My girlfriend lives a couple blocks away and we always see vehicles trying to cut across Burrard usually narrowly missing getting t boned by vehicles traveling on Burrard, the worst are the cyclist that try and cut across Burrard on those streets, more than half of them just go flying into the intersection expecting cars to stop for them :facepalm:

[Akinari]

The reason why my folks don't want me getting a bike :badpokerface:

RIP

[dangonay]

Edited:

Seems I'm dyslexic this morning with my directions.

While it's sad to see two people killed, it's tough for me as a fellow rider to have sympathy for people who ride like assholes and speed excessively, which this rider was doing. Look at the yellow markers on the road leading up to the crash - the police would put them there to mark the locations of tire marks from the bike - likely from locking up the brakes.

And yet despite braking, the bike still hit the BMW hard enough to turn it around and move it a significant distance. That requires a hell of a lot of force to do.

Shouldn't be speeding like that during rush hour, and with a passenger on back to boot.

[Vale46Rossi]

RIP.

[Mr.C]

RIP to the bikers, wow.

That E32 got hammered pretty good. Those doors are super heavy. I wonder how fast the bike was going.

[Recon604]

rip to the guy and girl

[Mr.C]

Looks like the BMW might have been the one at fault too, at least from the fact it looks like it spun around from the impact.

[BorLorBao]

Watched everything that happened after the collision. It is sad it also happened on weekend of remembrance day. RIP.
Posted via RS Mobile

[gdoh]

what does remembrance day weekend have to do with this?

[Meowjin]

im having a hard time understanding how this accident happened.

[gdoh]

i think that the car was trying to cut across burrard and didn't see the bike coming, then the car pulled out in front of the bike, the bike hit the car so hard that it spun the car

[Bravo]

Wonder if the bike ran the stop sign...

[hc529]

Ooh man, hope the rider is okay

Posted via RS Mobile

[TPMarko]

Wonder if the bike ran the stop sign...

you mean the car? the bike was heading southbound on burrard.

[gars]

2nd and 3rd cutting across Burrard is extremely dangerous. My girlfriend lives a couple blocks away and we always see vehicles trying to cut across Burrard usually narrowly missing getting t boned by vehicles traveling on Burrard, the worst are the cyclist that try and cut across Burrard on those streets, more than half of them just go flying into the intersection expecting cars to stop for them :facepalm:

Agreed. The worst part about the cyclists is that there is a bike lane and crossing at 1st ave just 1 or 2 blocks away.

[GLOW]

Ooh man, hope the rider is okay

Posted via RS Mobile
.
Both riders of the motorcycle, a 22-year-old woman and a man, age unknown, died from their injuries.

[AW607]

That bike must have been like a rocket to plow into the car with that amount of force to make it spin. RIP

[tofu1413]

i think that the car was trying to cut across burrard and didn't see the bike coming, then the car pulled out in front of the bike, the bike hit the car so hard that it spun the car

the bike was probably going quite fast... i mean that E31 7 series is a two ton monster...

[LP700-4]

The few times i've been down there i always see bikes just ripping up and down burrard with their loud exhausts.

Nonetheless, RIP

[MrGoodbar]

Burrard is fucked up from broadway onward to dunsmir. There's so much activity going on in this street that confuses the fuck out of everyone. Railroad, bikes, pedestrians, hills, lane closures during peak hours, the whole 9 yards of fucked up. you know what's worse is after crossing the bridge there's a light immediately at the end of the bridge when people are blowing across the bridge at 90-120kph. :fulloffuck:

It's not bad enough that there are stop lights every block into downtown on burrard, it's the fucking pedestrians that cross leisurely when it's a solid red fucking palm and solid red light on the road for cars. They need technology that has that red palm bitch palms everyone who is still on the pedestrian crossing when it's already a red light. It's the Vancouver equivalent of Richmond's No. 3 road but with multitudes more road hazards. Which makes me ask why No. 3 road is so fucked up when it's nicely paved and has a very slight curve to it and is fucking flat.

RIP the two on the bike.

[mb_]

RIP, can't believe this happened near my work. My coworker/friend saw the whole thing go down.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Vale46Rossi]

The Bmw has to be at fault. There's no way you're not going to see them regardless their speed.

We don't hear the news talking about the driver is because the driver is most likely not a young adult or a teenager but the biker and the girl was younger.

News like this love to blame speed and the younger crowd.

[Vale46Rossi]

If the driver is a 22 year old driving an aventador we would hear it already

[Nlkko]

Driver is a co-worker. She's mid 20. It's hard to dodge a 100km/h bullet. The 2 tons 7 series got ramped pretty good... She's probably partially at fault from the look of it. Yikes.
Posted via RS Mobile

[MeowMeow]

Rip
Posted via RS Mobile

[maxxxboost]

RIP.

[dangonay]

The Bmw has to be at fault. There's no way you're not going to see them regardless their speed.

We don't hear the news talking about the driver is because the driver is most likely not a young adult or a teenager but the biker and the girl was younger.

News like this love to blame speed and the younger crowd.
I don't think they'll fault the BMW driver. I posted before about an accident where I changed lanes and was hit by a speeding car. Initially they assigned blame to me but later changed it to the speeding driver. I shoulder checked and the road was clear. I also looked in my mirror and there was another car but he was at least 10 car lengths behind. By the time I changed lanes he caught up to me. The reason I didn't get blamed is because it's unreasonable to expect a person to be able to judge the speed of an approaching car that could be going way over the limit. I checked and my lane was clear - the reason for the accident was the excessive speed of the other driver that caused him to close the gap faster than any reasonable person would expect.

Remember all the exotic cars that got impounded and people were saying the witnesses can't be relied upon since they aren't able to judge the speed of another car just by looking at it? Similar thing here. If the BMW driver looked left and saw a bike one block away, then looked right and saw it was clear, why wouldn't he cross? It's not reasonable to expect a vehicle to travel a block in the time it takes you to glance to the right to see if it's safe to go.

Of course there could be more, but this is my opinion based on what we've seen so far. The BMW driver could have blown the stop sign too, but if he did the usual "look both ways" then I don't think he'll be charged.
Posted via RS Mobile

[NNT]

Driver is a co-worker. She's mid 20. It's hard to dodge a 100km/h bullet. The 2 tons 7 series got ramped pretty good... She's probably partially at fault from the look of it. Yikes.
Posted via RS Mobile

I am not judging if your co-worker are partially or fully at fault but isnt driver suppost to make sure the intersection is clear before she drive thru the stop sign?

[vafanculo]

I am not judging if your co-worker are partially or fully at fault but isnt driver suppost to make sure the intersection is clear before she drive thru the stop sign?

+ 1

Its the same as turning left. You need to make sure you won't be hit once you enter the intersection.

Even though it probably is the 'fault' of someone speeding in their own lane, fault will always be handed to the person crossing/merging the speeders 'right of way'.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Nlkko]

I am not judging if your co-worker are partially or fully at fault but isnt driver suppost to make sure the intersection is clear before she drive thru the stop sign?

Yes, that's why I said partially as guestimate. It could swing the way dragonay was saying too.

Don't really know her. The news just got passed around the office. Tragic.
Posted via RS Mobile

[hopalong]

I retired from riding 5 years ago. Too many close calls. Too many idiot drivers out there. For riders it doesn't matter if the accident is their fault or not, the rider will always come out in the losing end no matter what. RIP

[dangonay]

Just found out a guy from work was on his 600 going to work right behind the other bike and saw the whole thing. Was with the police for a couple hours giving his statement. He's pretty shook up after what he saw. He's also a new rider and just got his bike. Other guys pushed his bike up to the shop as he couldn't ride.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dvst8]

RIP. Drive safe everyone.

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

RIP =(

[Harvey Specter]

I love how everyone starts assuming who's fault it is when they weren't there and have no eyewitness accounts to back up their theories. And imo it doesn't matter who's fault it was because two people lost their lives so let it be and let ICBC deal with it.

[Glove]

Just found out a guy from work was on his 600 going to work right behind the other bike and saw the whole thing. Was with the police for a couple hours giving his statement. He's pretty shook up after what he saw. He's also a new rider and just got his bike. Other guys pushed his bike up to the shop as he couldn't ride.
Posted via RS Mobile

new rider?
just got bike?
600?

:suspicious:

[Kidnapman]

new rider?
just got bike?
600?

:suspicious:

Honda Shadow :troll::ilied:

[Gh0stRider]

rip

[124Y]

Sucks to hear. RIP :(

[boostfever]

I love how everyone starts assuming who's fault it is when they weren't there and have no eyewitness accounts to back up their theories. And imo it doesn't matter who's fault it was because two people lost their lives so let it be and let ICBC deal with it.

couldn't agree more. really sucks that two people died. i was thinking about this accident pretty much all day today. they cleared up the area around 3pm.

[Prolowtone]

Just found out a guy from work was on his 600 going to work right behind the other bike and saw the whole thing. Was with the police for a couple hours giving his statement. He's pretty shook up after what he saw. He's also a new rider and just got his bike. Other guys pushed his bike up to the shop as he couldn't ride.
Posted via RS Mobile

Yeah, I would find it hard to hop on a bike directly after that happening in front of me as well :( RIP.

[dangonay]

What I've noticed over the years is the difference in responses to kids dying smashing their high-end exotics, drunk drivers killing themselves or bike riders.

IMO it seems more often people want to give riders a "pass" when there's an accident and blame it on the "cager". We all know riding a bike is more dangerous and that people in other vehicles often change lanes or cut off riders because they don't pay attention.

Of all the motorcycle accidents (fatalities) I looked at with Transport Canada the majority of them were the faut of the rider, and the most common causes were excessive speed or failing to negotiate a turn (lots of riders, especially new ones, don't understand how to lean into a turn). Very often the two go together.

This is why I stated in my first post that I have a hard time giving sympathy. I've always taken the stance that if you do something grossly negligent and kill yourself, too bad. Who I feel sad for is the passenger, as it always seems to be the passengers that pay for the drivers stupidity.

[KO7]

I retired from riding 5 years ago. Too many close calls. Too many idiot drivers out there. For riders it doesn't matter if the accident is their fault or not, the rider will always come out in the losing end no matter what. RIP

+1
I couldn't face the risks day in and day out anymore. What sealed it for me was seeing two of my mentors (husband and wife, both very experienced) get into fatal accidents a year apart from each other. Her funeral was one of the last days I ever rode.

[Marco911]

I don't think they'll fault the BMW driver. I posted before about an accident where I changed lanes and was hit by a speeding car. Initially they assigned blame to me but later changed it to the speeding driver. I shoulder checked and the road was clear. I also looked in my mirror and there was another car but he was at least 10 car lengths behind. By the time I changed lanes he caught up to me. The reason I didn't get blamed is because it's unreasonable to expect a person to be able to judge the speed of an approaching car that could be going way over the limit. I checked and my lane was clear - the reason for the accident was the excessive speed of the other driver that caused him to close the gap faster than any reasonable person would expect.

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

[dn53]

looks like a cbr 929, anyone else think so? my guess is he was fucking flying. c'mon man early in the morning, with a passenger, in a totally busy area..

http://www.sircivik.ca/sir_civik/pics/2000cbr929.jpg

[broken_arrow]

RIP

A lot of bikers do drive too damn fast though... Just today, I was driving in the right lane in a 50 zone (going about 60) with a bike behind me. I turned into the left lane to overtake some slower moving cars (I was going about 65 at that point) and all of a sudden the biker started riding my ass like there is no tomorrow and revving. As I was about to overtake the last car and move back into the right lane (to let the biker pass), he decided to jump the right lane before me and went on to blow by me at 100+ (guesstimate) in a 50! WTF!? I almost merged into him when he jumped into the right lane. This kind of behaviour is irresponsible and dangerous and many bikers act in this way IMO.

Once again, I am not pointing fingers or making any accusations, just ranting to let off some steam...

[dangonay]

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.
I ride and shoulder check because a bike can fit into a blind spot where a car would be easily visible with mirrors. If you are travelling around a curve or merging then the angle of the lane you're in compared to the lane you're moving to changes the size and location of your blind spot. Are you going to have continually adjusting mirrors to compensate for all driving conditions? Shoulder checking is not something I do every single time - like any good driver I adjust based on conditions and if in doubt I check.

The laws and driving habits in Germany are different than here, so they don't apply.

[xilley]

RIP.. =(

[vantrip]

RIP to the rider and passenger.

Unfortunately we have too many ghost-rider wanna be types driving way to fast, cutting in/out of traffic. Riders need to slow down a lot in this city.

[vafanculo]

A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

1) Seriously? Shoulder checking is the most important thing, imo. You know how many times I've shoulder checked before changing lanes and said to myself 'glad I did that' as I see a car. Just the other day, some ass wipe hit me cause he merged into my lane without shoulder checking, and was going too slow (in relation to your number '2' point).

You can adjust your mirrors, sure. But that won't be 100 percent accurate as your shoulder check. Are you going to stop shoulder checking all together if you drive one of those cars that have blind spot sensors? People get too lazy on the road and rely on mirrors, and other gadgets when they don't have to.

2) I agree.
Posted via RS Mobile

[gripenM]

if you adjust your mirrors so that the side mirrors and rear view mirror
become a continuation/complete picture without overlapping,
you'll have eliminated blind spots,
by the time the car disappears in the mirrors,
it would be right beside you

1) Seriously? Shoulder checking is the most important thing, imo. You know how many times I've shoulder checked before changing lanes and said to myself 'glad I did that' as I see a car. Just the other day, some ass wipe hit me cause he merged into my lane without shoulder checking, and was going too slow (in relation to your number '2' point).

You can adjust your mirrors, sure. But that won't be 100 percent accurate as your shoulder check. Are you going to stop shoulder checking all together if you drive one of those cars that have blind spot sensors? People get too lazy on the road and rely on mirrors, and other gadgets when they don't have to.

2) I agree.
Posted via RS Mobile

[aznkev03]

if you adjust your mirrors so that the side mirrors and rear view mirror
become a continuation/complete picture without overlapping,
you'll have eliminated blind spots,
by the time the car disappears in the mirrors,
it would be right beside you
I drive a fairly small car (civic) and have my mirrors adjusted in this way. While it works flawlessly with cars, you could easily still miss anything smaller (ped/cyclist/rider). I still shoulder check.

Shoulder checking should not take that much attention away from the road. It's just a quick glance at your blind spot, not a scan of the entire area beside/behind your car, as you can see those spots in your mirrors
Posted via RS Mobile

[FerrariEnzo]

When shoulder checking, your not turning your head a full 180degrees, if you are, then your doing it wrong.
Your eyes are also fully to the position that you intend to look at, so you head it is around 90degrees..

This action shouldnt take more then 2 secs... if it does, then you are doing something wrong..

Adjusting the mirrors would work on cars with a large horizontal side mirror.. some cars have a shorter horizontal side mirror..

Please get the small convex mirrors if you are lazy to shoulder check... Those are better then just the side mirrors themselves.


A couple of things that I disagree with here:

1) Shoulder checking. With properly adjusted mirrors, (I don't see the side of my car) shoulder checking is unnecessary and dangerous. There is a lot that can happen in front of you for the time it takes you to do a shoulder check, and regain your reference points when you look forward once again.

2) I find the excuse that one should not be required to judge the closing speed of a vehicle to be lacking. That won't fly in Germany, where closing speeds could be extremely quick. If you change lanes into a faster vehicle in Germany, you would be found at fault.

IF your saying that shoulder checking is dangerous, then how about those people who lean the hell forward to look in their side mirrors? Is that not dangerous, their eyes are of the road and focused on the side mirror..

I hate these people who does that.. they think they have room but its actually very tight.. I can see their ugly face in my view also..

[gripenM]

actually works quite well even with smaller mirrors such as these

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4679879844_1228f0e673.jpg

and all it takes is a quick glance without moving your head,

but i still do turn my head 45 degrees to make sure no one's beside me
although i can still see out of the corner of my eye with my head straight forward

takes a little while to get used to having your mirrors angled outwards so much, but after a while, feels completely natural


When shoulder checking, your not turning your head a full 180degrees, if you are, then your doing it wrong.
Your eyes are also fully to the position that you intend to look at, so you head it is around 90degrees..

This action shouldnt take more then 2 secs... if it does, then you are doing something wrong..

Adjusting the mirrors would work on cars with a large horizontal side mirror.. some cars have a shorter horizontal side mirror..

Please get the small convex mirrors if you are lazy to shoulder check... Those are better then just the side mirrors themselves.




IF your saying that shoulder checking is dangerous, then how about those people who lean the hell forward to look in their side mirrors? Is that not dangerous, their eyes are of the road and focused on the side mirror..

I hate these people who does that.. they think they have room but its actually very tight.. I can see their ugly face in my view also..

[achiam]

the bike was probably going quite fast... i mean that E31 7 series is a two ton monster...

Definitely. Even if the car was at fault and pulled out too fast, a bike going 50-65km/hr would not have demolished the side of the bimmer like that AND pushed it some distance. I'd guesstimate it was going faster than 80 or 90 KPH.

[Marco911]

I ride and shoulder check because a bike can fit into a blind spot where a car would be easily visible with mirrors. If you are travelling around a curve or merging then the angle of the lane you're in compared to the lane you're moving to changes the size and location of your blind spot. Are you going to have continually adjusting mirrors to compensate for all driving conditions? Shoulder checking is not something I do every single time - like any good driver I adjust based on conditions and if in doubt I check.

The laws and driving habits in Germany are different than here, so they don't apply.

Shoulder checking - I am going to reiterate my position that people who find they need to shoulder check because of blind spots do not have properly adjusted mirrors. Taking your eyes off the road to shoulder check is equivalent to taking your eyes off the road to glance at your phone. If you keep your eye on the side mirror, and move your head laterally toward the center of the car, you can get an even wider view, while STILL keeping a view of what is ahead of you. The only time I have been in an at-fault accident was over 15 years ago, and because I shoulder checked while changing lanes in a curve. The driver in the vehicle ahead of me was signalling and I assumed he was turning right at the next intersection. Instead he was signalling to turn into his driveway on a main street (Capilano Road). By the time I had looked forward, he had slowed down considerably vs. the speed of traffic in the lane. If I had only looked in my mirrors and kept my peripheral view on the traffic ahead of me, I would not have rear-ended him. I accepted fault and responsibility for that collision because I took my eyes off the road (to shoulder check!)

At 60 km/h, if it takes one second to shoulder-check, your vehicle has travelled about 4-5 car lengths, without you looking at the road. That's more than enough for you to miss seeing the vehicle in front of you slam on his brakes.

Changing lanes into a car travelling faster than you - I find the excuse that the laws and habits in Germany are different than here to be lacking. There is clearly a "best practice" approach to driving no matter where you are. The fact that you were not found at fault by ICBC does not mean one whit if your actions and decision to change lanes clearly contributed to the collision. You got away with it - fine, but don't tell me that you really don't think you made a driving error.

[dangonay]

^ I've never had an at fault accident in over 1,000,000 km's driven in my life. I've been shoulder checking since I was 14 when I got my learner's. Maybe the problem isn't shoulder checking, but doing it at an inappropriate time, which it appears is exactly what you did in your accident.

You're assuming much about my accident. It wasn't ICBC as I was living in Sask at the time. It also wasn't on the highway which is what you're implying by using Germany and high closing speeds in your example. It was a two lane road in the city with a 50 km/h speed limit. After measuring the skid marks from the other vehicle (luckily ABS wasn't common back then) and his impact with me it was determined he was going at least 100km/h and likely faster.

The bottom line is the insurance adjusters and the police came to the conclusion it was the other guys fault. That's two separate agencies that came to the same conclusion. The police charged him with dangerous driving and SGI found him liable for the accident.

Why are you trying to imply a case you know nothing about and was decided based on the evidence was somehow decided wrong?

[E.D.C.5]

RIP

[asr]

RIP

[!e.lo_]

I by chance got to talk to one of the paramedics that showed up to that scene.
He told me it was pretty bad. Then of other stories that were horrific. Be aware as a rider. Be safe.

RIP

[CP.AR]

When shoulder checking, your not turning your head a full 180degrees, if you are, then your doing it wrong.
Your eyes are also fully to the position that you intend to look at, so you head it is around 90degrees..

This action shouldnt take more then 2 secs... if it does, then you are doing something wrong..

Adjusting the mirrors would work on cars with a large horizontal side mirror.. some cars have a shorter horizontal side mirror..

Please get the small convex mirrors if you are lazy to shoulder check... Those are better then just the side mirrors themselves.




IF your saying that shoulder checking is dangerous, then how about those people who lean the hell forward to look in their side mirrors? Is that not dangerous, their eyes are of the road and focused on the side mirror..

I hate these people who does that.. they think they have room but its actually very tight.. I can see their ugly face in my view also..

This,
But those little mirrors are only SUPPLEMENTS to your on road situational awareness. ALWAYS shoulder check

[JSALES]

RIP

[essel]

Damn that's shitty to hear.. RIP

[Marco911]

^ I've never had an at fault accident in over 1,000,000 km's driven in my life.

You're arguably at partial fault for the collision you describe. The fact that you can't tell that someone behind you is driving at over 50 km/h faster than you by glancing in your mirror or did not realize that something was wrong when you heard screeching tires behind you pretty much speaks for itself.


I've been shoulder checking since I was 14 when I got my learner's. Maybe the problem isn't shoulder checking, but doing it at an inappropriate time, which it appears is exactly what you did in your accident.

No, the problem is shoulder checking. It is unnecessary.



You're assuming much about my accident. It wasn't ICBC as I was living in Sask at the time. It also wasn't on the highway which is what you're implying by using Germany and high closing speeds in your example. It was a two lane road in the city with a 50 km/h speed limit. After measuring the skid marks from the other vehicle (luckily ABS wasn't common back then) and his impact with me it was determined he was going at least 100km/h and likely faster.


Any injuries involved?


The bottom line is the insurance adjusters and the police came to the conclusion it was the other guys fault. That's two separate agencies that came to the same conclusion. The police charged him with dangerous driving and SGI found him liable for the accident.

Why are you trying to imply a case you know nothing about and was decided based on the evidence was somehow decided wrong?

Actually they came to the conclusion that you were at fault at first. They changed the conclusion after reviewing the situation. In Germany, whether you're on the autobahn or not, you would be expected to know not to change lanes into a car moving faster than you.