[kunoman1]

Hey all with the recent unrest between Israel and Gaza I figure we could post the latest developments and thoughts etc here

[broken_arrow]

It's a sensitive issue... Everyone has different opinions on it and it would be difficult to assert unbiased and well founded responses. BUT, this is just my opinion...

[Hondaracer]

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/images/4/2011/08/xlarge_bill-pullma-nuke-em.jpg

[rsx]

It's hard to get unbiased facts on the Palestinian - Israel conflict. But, personally, it seemed like the Palestinians got shafted out of their land (1948) and Israel is still continuing to encroach and reclaim "historical sites." From what I understand, if they find a shard of vase in Palestinian areas, they'll claim it as their land. Would love more detail/info on this.

Hamas has considerably decreased rocket fire and says the onus is on Israel to end the attacks. It could be that they just ran out of rockets or delaying so they can reassemble the, supposed, newly acquired "Dawn" missiles from Iran.

[Jason00S2000]

It is a fucking human tragedy, so much hatred


Only the women can change it, by refusing to fuck the extremists on both sides

[MindBomber]

Beautiful girls of the Israeli Army (31 Photos) : theCHIVE (http://thechive.com/2012/04/17/beautiful-girls-of-the-israeli-army-31-photos/)

[RouRK]

http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

[StylinRed]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pk6vn0Z5-uE/TLSw0o134YI/AAAAAAAAB1Q/DuVgDx0gbHE/s1600/Palestine.jpg
^^^ forget that Israel has their state just look at what was left to the Palestinians and how much that has been encroached on and filled with occupiers who either live in the homes there of others or tear em down and build apartment buildings over it.


this recent spat of attacks again was brought on by the assassination of a Hamas leader


It's really very simple if you were attacked by a foreign body and thrown out of your homes or had your homes destroyed, or had your livelihood (farms) destroyed and you were corralled into a concentrated, monitored, controlled, frequently bombarded camp some of you would likely rise up and try to attack this outside force and im not speaking of the state of Israel here I'm remarking on the occupied territories (hell they live by the coast but cant even enter the sea!)

doesn't get any more simple than that; it's actually surprising that not every palestinian is up in arms but rather most of them are just trying to live with what they have left

HELL even Ehud Barak (former PM etc) said if he were born in palestine he'd be a terrorist too

Ignoring the fact that Israel is in the wrong here, I can understand them wanting to defend what they've taken... but wth is the reasoning of antagonizing, inciting violence? just so you can attack some targets you've been itching to get at? okay fine but then why are you bombing the local police, radio stations etc.... (i know their excuses but it just doesn't fly)



I've been seeing these parallels made lately as people try to understand why Americans don't support Palestinians as much as the rest of the world

http://truththeory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/01sOY7R_LwtP26KtcyEjgi4ZJh2neUL9HDAOkmHow600.jpg

https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwl48jkfuf1qj171uo1_500.jpg



Side note "Anonymous" has taken to hacking and bringing down Israeli websites/networks as a form of "retaliation" because Israel has been doing the same to Palestinians during this recent conflict



Awaiting M!chael to pop-up out of his hole to exclaim how im wrong and Palestine is Evil and Israel are Angels and how the Palestinians need to have a Holocaust so they get wiped out of the area

[m!chael]

Awaiting M!chael to pop-up out of his hole to exclaim how im wrong and Palestine is Evil and Israel are Angels and how the Palestinians need to have a Holocaust so they get wiped out of the area

:suspicious: What the fuck is wrong with you?

[StylinRed]

:suspicious: What the fuck is wrong with you?

there he is!

lol how quickly we forget the past it was the very moment i stopped enjoying going back and forth with you with our views; if you've forgotten you can go back into the history and reread your comments

if you've changed your view great

[m!chael]

there he is!

lol how quickly we forget the past it was the very moment i stopped enjoying going back and forth with you with our views; if you've forgotten you can go back into the history and reread your comments

if you've changed your view great

You've gone full retard buddy.

Edit: It's actually pathetic that you have to stoop so low to accuse me of something that I absolutely, never, ever, would even think of saying. I just went through every Israel argument post I had with you since the flotilla incident and did not find a single post that even insinuates something of that sort. You can have your opinion as I have mine, and you most definitely don't have to agree with me. But don't, DON'T, accuse me of anything of that sort or put such words in my mouth. I have lost any respect I had for you (which you may be surprised, was a fair bit because of your dedication to your causes and your thoughtful, although at times misguided, opinions). Shame on you.

[StylinRed]

that's fine


edit: you can try and back away from it all you want but that was the exact moment i stopped caring what you said and as mentioned ceased enjoying going back and forth with you i think ages later you claimed you were trolling iirc but that didnt matter to me the impression was set

[RouRK]

Israel controls almost everything that comes into Gaza.... every day things are denied... they bomb and destroy infrastructure then deny them the basics to rebuild.. like concrete and the most simple things in life.. they take their land away from them in illegal settlements and the world says your bad Israel.. and never do anything about it.. its a fucking shame how people think. ISRAEL IS THE PROBLEM IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

[iEatClams]

I've heard points from both sides, and it's not as simple as what's stated so far in this thread (people siding against Israel)

[G-spec]

I personally side with the innocent civilians in this conflict as one always should.
And everyone can have an opinion and that's fine, but the facts simply are that almost every major country in the world opposes what Israel is and has been doing for a long time.
And that should speak volumes about the situation, and when you look at the two sides of this conflict try not to refer nor look at it as Jews vs Palestinians, that's just the wrong way to look at it... it's more like Zionists vs Extremists

[m!chael]

that's fine


edit: you can try and back away from it all you want but that was the exact moment i stopped caring what you said and as mentioned ceased enjoying going back and forth with you i think ages later you claimed you were trolling iirc but that didnt matter to me the impression was set

I'm not backing away from anything, because I never said anything of that sort. Any person who has followed our bickering over the years can attest to the fact that I never said, or would say, anything like that. It's sad that you have to resort to this.

[Lomac]

Now this is a topic I wouldn't dare touch, even with Hypa's foot long dick...

:inout:

[gars]

Anyone interested in the history of that area should read this book

From Beirut to Jerusalem: Amazon.ca: Thomas L. Friedman: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71256546D8L.@@AMEPARAM@@71256546D8L

Thomas Friedman (who's Jewish) was a NY Times reporter embedded in Beirut, then later in Jerusalem. It's a very interesting read, because at times, you almost feel like he's anti-Israel. But the more you read, the more you just realize the complexity of all the conflicts in the area.

I've read it once, need to read it again.

[StylinRed]

I'm not backing away from anything, because I never said anything of that sort. Any person who has followed our bickering over the years can attest to the fact that I never said, or would say, anything like that. It's sad that you have to resort to this.

im not resorting to anything as i've stated it's the very moment i stopped enjoying our back and forth, ever since, i recall that disgusting impression; but im far too lazy/busy to look through all our discussions to find the very comment mentioned and because of that i'll defer to your claim that you've looked through everything and can't find it, and i'll apologize to you, im sorry, but the impression remains

[OTG-ZR2]

I've been following chroniquespalestine.blogspot.ca (http://chroniquespalestine.blogspot.ca/) for up-to date photos and news on the Palestinian side. Images are very raw and disturbing.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MhgSOqJvcOs/UKlNXt8ps3I/AAAAAAAART0/3jaCDSyLFXs/s640/IMG_8536.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oWpPU6QOKF0/UKlNoEi1_cI/AAAAAAAARV0/0Wp81GdqFBc/s1600/IMG_9022.JPG

[rsx]

Tel Aviv was just rocked by a bomb placed in a bus.

Tel Aviv Bus Bombing: Explosion rocks Israeli city center - YouTube

[StylinRed]

rocked? excessive no? thankfully no 1 died; this is significant though since the last time there was a bomb attack it was 2006

7 - 11 palestinian civilians died from bombing today, so far, and injuries are in the 100s (different number from few sources)




should make it clear though i wish both governments were eradicated and more sane ones placed in; in hopes they could come to a peace deal rather than having the civilians caught in the middle

the last leaders that seemed close to peace were Arafat and Rabin but they were both assassinated (its assumed Arafat was assassinated too and in fact they want to take his body out to test for poisons)

sigh

[gdoh]

im thankful to live like canada

[CharlesInCharge]

This little girl died early in the war among a few other babies in which the bomb that dropped on their homes, contained phosphorus which fills the air and burns skins when it makes contact with it. Video of charred breathing baby included in the lower link
http://grantjkidney.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/pic.jpg
Israeli attack on Gaza leaves burned, mutilated child victims | Grant J. Kidney, at War with the Establishment! (http://grantjkidney.com/graphic-israeli-attack-burns-flesh-off-of-3-year-old-girl/)

Why arent these terrorist acts by a "country" not shown in our media? because the west is complicit and a slave to the "new world order" paradigm.

Here is the Isreali defense force media campaign to wash it self clean of genocide.
http://i.imgur.com/h69mC.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1g3CExuCw
You'd have to be a dimwit to buy into that.


In the 2009 Gaza assault, 1400 were murdered which 320 of them were children/minors and 100 women. ~10 Isreali's died.
Casualties of the Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War)

I remember Isreal dropping white phosphorus on schools and bombing U.N. shelters... they get away with the most disgusting atrocities and the western population calls Hamas terrorists.




The current casualties; Gaza death toll rises to 161, incl 42 children & 11 women. 1222 wounded including 431 children & 207 women
Isreal = 5

This latest war was started by isreal in its long time goal to cleans the Arabs away from the military fort isreal is and to create a buffer zone for its men and women conscripted soldiers to live on base.
Isreal is not mean for a "Jewish" (ethnic or religious) state, in fact it has given world Jewry a bad name.

[drunkrussian]

alright fuck it

Why arent these terrorist acts by a "country" not shown in our media? because the west is complicit and a slave to the "new world order" paradigm.

today a bus full of 20 israelis blew up and that was covered. In addition all i'm seeing is coverage of people in gaza getting blown apart. I'd say the biased western media is showing us what they can get footage of. Go to CNN right now and tell me what you see.

Here is the Isreali defense force media campaign to wash it self clean of genocide.
http://i.imgur.com/h69mC.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI1g3CExuCw
You'd have to be a dimwit to buy into that.
it costs israel 10,000 dollars to fire a single missle which is meant to counter a hamas missle and stop it from landing on israeli soil. It is filled with technology to be accurate and get the job done. If a hamas missle is headed towards outskirts of israel with no people, an israeli missle is not fired, to save money.

so i ask you, why the FUCK would they waste these missles and taxpayher dollars to kill little children and women? Because that's such a good PR stint? Because they enjoy killing women and children? Because they want to piss off hamas? Give me a break man, a missle is not fired unless it is to protect.


In the 2009 Gaza assault, 1400 were murdered which 320 of them were children/minors and 100 women. ~10 Isreali's died.
Casualties of the Gaza War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War)


you are comparing a poor, run down society who's conflicts are started by terrorists, to the most sophisticated army in the world, engineered to protect and with years of experience. No shit 10 israelis died. Go look up numbers for the u.s vs. iraq war. Next take the american causalties and see how many of those deaths were due to friendly fire and other stupid shit.

In addition, do these statistics account for things like bus explosions, nightclub bombings and other stupid shit? If you lived in israel, hyou would know that bus explosions are THE go-to move for quick terrorist acts. But i guess the israeli-serving western media should've told you that already? But wait, innocent israeli women and children take the bus. Could your terrorists be murderers as well? :-o biased western media, where art thou?!

This latest war was started by isreal in its long time goal to cleans the Arabs away from the military fort isreal is and to create a buffer zone for its men and women conscripted soldiers to live on base.
Isreal is not mean for a "Jewish" (ethnic or religious) state, in fact it has given world Jewry a bad name.
if there's one thing jews are good at, it's business :fullofwin: and war is not good for business - it is a waste of money. Isarel has a booming economy in manufacturing and tech among other things, and putting people out of work to go fight is not good for business. Firing $10,000 missles is not good for business. Israel goes to war to defend, not to achieve some goal which your western media apparently denies. It is not israel vs. palestine, it is israel vs. whatever terrorist state is currently on board to go fight them.

don't get me wrong; i think both parties are retarded and wish they would stop this. Most people do. It is people like you who form conspiracy theories and take an extreme side who are the dimwits.

[GabAlmighty]

Beautiful girls of the Israeli Army (31 Photos) : theCHIVE (http://thechive.com/2012/04/17/beautiful-girls-of-the-israeli-army-31-photos/)

Fuck me I want a posting in Israel now

[rsx]

if there's one thing jews are good at, it's business :fullofwin: and war is not good for business - it is a waste of money. Isarel has a booming economy in manufacturing and tech among other things, and putting people out of work to go fight is not good for business. Firing $10,000 missles is not good for business. Israel goes to war to defend, not to achieve some goal which your western media apparently denies. It is not israel vs. palestine, it is israel vs. whatever terrorist state is currently on board to go fight them.

don't get me wrong; i think both parties are retarded and wish they would stop this. Most people do. It is people like you who form conspiracy theories and take an extreme side who are the dimwits.

I'm sure launching and showing weapon systems efficiency (90%) is great for business (Rafael Advanced Weapon Systems) on top of that the US has provided $600M in joint cooperation for the Iron Dome.

I think I read in new reports that S.Korea is thinking of purchasing the Iron Dome.

I don't think Rafael is listed as a public company though =(

[belka]

http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__hspjzfC024/TC5QHuJwqhI/AAAAAAAABac/XpdTL_2Sa0Y/s1600/end-the-unjust-Jewish-occupation-of-Muslim-land.jpg

[Graeme S]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__hspjzfC024/TC5QHuJwqhI/AAAAAAAABac/XpdTL_2Sa0Y/s1600/end-the-unjust-Jewish-occupation-of-Muslim-land.jpg
The issue here then becomes that "all people of X religion are the same, and so are the lands they come from, so it doesn't really matter".

Not sure about you, but I don't quite think that works out right.

[CharlesInCharge]

alright fuck it

today a bus full of 20 israelis blew up and that was covered.
Is this suppose to counter my argument? More media sorrow for the poor isreali's.

In addition all i'm seeing is coverage of people in gaza getting blown apart. I'd say the biased western media is showing us what they can get footage of. Go to CNN right now and tell me what you see.
Great you have some clips you want to show off, find me one that is truly sympathetic to Palestinian children being terrorized.

it costs israel 10,000 dollars to fire a single missle which is meant to counter a hamas missle and stop it from landing on israeli soil. It is filled with technology to be accurate and get the job done. If a hamas missle is headed towards outskirts of israel with no people, an israeli missle is not fired, to save money.
This is American tax payers money and yes I know how the Iron Dome works.


so i ask you, why the FUCK would they waste these missles and taxpayher dollars to kill little children and women?
Because they want to terrorize the population to give up resistance, thats why the fuck.
Because that's such a good PR stint?
320 children were killed last time and if it wasnt for the Iranian sponsored PressTV news, the world would'nt know much better. The west couldnt give two fucks and Harper stands by this shit... who needs PR in the western world when simple robots that cant think for themselves watch TV and suck in all that their president feeds them.

Because they enjoy killing women and children? Bingo, you only have to really know the genocidal isreali past which I bet you have no idea about because your education and media have kept you ignorant.
Because they want to piss off hamas? Give me a break man, a missle is not fired unless it is to protect.
"a missle is not fired unless it is to protect" what is that suppose to mean? These strikes are all video recorded, show me how taking out a whole apartment is protective... over 1500 strikes on Gaza was to decimate the whole city along with its citizens and infrastructure.



you are comparing a poor, run down society who's conflicts are started by terrorists,
Thats a stupid statement for a nation that's been made refugees on their own land. A run down society, ha, I bet your pretty passionate about Vancouver traffic too... can you imagine going to work everyday like this?
People kept in cages before going to work = DEHUMANISATION - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC8QnKWH6cI)


to the most sophisticated army in the world, engineered to protect and with years of experience. They only have nukes, and they lost the 33 day war... even a Gaza ground invasion was too much for them... they truly did open the gates of hell when they stared this war and folded at the end with giving Palestinians access to move in and out of their town now with the new truce.

No shit 10 israelis died. Go look up numbers for the u.s vs. iraq war. Next take the american causalties and see how many of those deaths were due to friendly fire and other stupid shit.
Every citizen of Isreal is like a soldier, so when Hamas gets accurate missile technology, they can also up the numbers by destroying the Iron dome and leveling apartments to murder as isreal indiscriminately kills people... your proud of this it seems... killing innocent women and children.
Its all isreal knows and you've been brain washed to accept this as justified it seems and as a win.


In addition, do these statistics account for things like bus explosions, nightclub bombings and other stupid shit? If you lived in israel, hyou would know that bus explosions are THE go-to move for quick terrorist acts.
Terror for terror if the Palestinians have to stoop as low as the vile Zionist to survive. What kind of logic thinks a guy with a uniform who drops a 1 ton bomb from the air to be not a terrorist. I believe Saddam was funding some of the past bombing, giving a suicide bombers family money to do such acts. This latest bus attack wasnt meant to do major carnage as supposedly only one person has died.


But i guess the israeli-serving western media should've told you that already? But wait, innocent israeli women and children take the bus. Could your terrorists be murderers as well? :-o biased western media, where art thou?!

Isreali citizens need to collectively stop supporting this middle eastern military base and go back to their Europeans and Russian homes. I wonder what percentage of Isreali's are actually ethnically Jewish (from ancient Georgia) and serving in the army. The people there now are soldiers for to be used by the world powers... the middle east hold a wealth of energy and the powers goal for a one world government (world dominance) will not be possible without it.


if there's one thing jews are good at, it's business :fullofwin: and war is not good for business - it is a waste of money.
American tax payer money.

Isarel has a booming economy in manufacturing and tech among other things, and putting people out of work to go fight is not good for business.
These isreali terror campaigns and the backlash isnt good in keeping isrealis in town and importing more solider for future major conflicts.

Firing $10,000 missles is not good for business.
A war in Gaza would've cost up to a billion in the figures Ive seen.
Israel goes to war to defend, not to achieve some goal which your western media apparently denies.

:failed:

People don't understand Arab anger against Israel. I am 52 years-old and in my life time, Israel has bombed Sudan, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Iraq. And in all those wars and attacks, it portrays itself as a victim. And I did not count its war on Arabs around the world, including its murder of a Moroccan waiter in Norway because he resembled a Palestinian leader. It even downed a Libyan civilian airliner in 1973 because it "suspected" (wrongly) that a Palestinian leader was on board. This criminal war record of Israel is not covered in your morning papers in the West.

It is not israel vs. palestine, it is israel vs. whatever terrorist state is currently on board to go fight them.
People around the world protest against isreal. Jews protest against isreal. Has anyone ever seen an Arab protest for isreal?

don't get me wrong; i think both parties are retarded and wish they would stop this. Most people do. It is people like you who form conspiracy theories and take an extreme side who are the dimwits.

You support a genocidal state, the slaughtered women and children are proof enough, and I know you wouldnt have same views if you were of Arab descent.
.

[ProBoostin]

I'm not up to date with the whole conflict but here's a little history of what the Jews have gone through for quite some time:

Jews have been terrorized since the 1100's and everyone thinks that all this happened in the last century or two. Around 1150 in England, it was claimed that a Jew crucified a Christian child. More of these accusation came up in England and elsewhere, often combined with the assertion that Jews needed Christian blood for their sacred ceremonies. Jews were then accused of being demons and associated with the Devil.

This Trend continued until the 1800's and in 1879, Wilhelm Marr published a book, "The Victory of Jews over the Germans," which systematically presented that Jews were corrupt by nature and not because of their beliefs. Karl Eugen Duhring also published "The Jewish Question as a Problem of Racial Characteristics" in 1880, which was a fuller and more sophisticated exposition of the new racist antisemitism.

19th century German also saw that 80% of German-Jewry was class as bourgeois and were overrepresented in lucrative or prestigious fields. Germans eventually began to hate them so much that the Kristallnacht happened and late the Holocaust,and Jews fled Germany by the thousands after the Kristallnacht.

Jews want Isreal as their country because they fear that without seclusion from other countries they are in danger of emancipation. Jerusalem is the their Holy city which should be accounted for. They want to be left alone and live their own lives without fear of being killed. The whole war in Isreal is because they can't come to terms on who gets what land its its become a big shit show.

CharlesInCharge, if you go back another 5 years you'll see that millions of Jews were killed. I wouldn't blame them for wanted their on little country so they can at least say they are safe. Jews haven't really done anything to anyone to force that has been done to them. Most people dislike them because they are intelligent and know how to deal with money (first started charging interest as merchants in the Middle Ages).

At least the cease fire plan has gone through for a day so far. Thank god for RT news. Russians actually show proper news stories and no western media bullshit.

[CharlesInCharge]

+1 for RT news.

There are different sects of Judaism and when different parts of this religion teach that Jews are gods chosen people and with the whole migrating into European societies and charging interest to poor people, creating social economic problems, could be why many countries across Europe collectively expelled Jewish people.
One or more of Shakespear's famous plays tell of these stories.

I dont believe Jews were expelled when the Romans attacked their city in the holy land (see link below)... through out history Islamic and Jewish people have lived in peace... but how can someone say they are a just religious person to occupy lands and homes in which the natives were terrorized and genocided to clear them of the place. And this has continued to this day.

The world wars armies were both funded by the same international bankers and I think Zionism was an ideology to create a base in the middle east after defeating the Ottoman Empire.

This is a must read by an Isreali professor.
Israel's surprising best seller contradicts founding ideology | The Electronic Intifada (http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-surprising-best-seller-contradicts-founding-ideology/7753)

[rsx]

I'm not up to date with the whole conflict but here's a little history of what the Jews have gone through for quite some time:

Jews have been terrorized since the 1100's and everyone thinks that all this happened in the last century or two. Around 1150 in England, it was claimed that a Jew crucified a Christian child. More of these accusation came up in England and elsewhere, often combined with the assertion that Jews needed Christian blood for their sacred ceremonies. Jews were then accused of being demons and associated with the Devil.

This Trend continued until the 1800's and in 1879, Wilhelm Marr published a book, "The Victory of Jews over the Germans," which systematically presented that Jews were corrupt by nature and not because of their beliefs. Karl Eugen Duhring also published "The Jewish Question as a Problem of Racial Characteristics" in 1880, which was a fuller and more sophisticated exposition of the new racist antisemitism.

19th century German also saw that 80% of German-Jewry was class as bourgeois and were overrepresented in lucrative or prestigious fields. Germans eventually began to hate them so much that the Kristallnacht happened and late the Holocaust,and Jews fled Germany by the thousands after the Kristallnacht.

Jews want Isreal as their country because they fear that without seclusion from other countries they are in danger of emancipation. Jerusalem is the their Holy city which should be accounted for. They want to be left alone and live their own lives without fear of being killed. The whole war in Isreal is because they can't come to terms on who gets what land its its become a big shit show.

CharlesInCharge, if you go back another 5 years you'll see that millions of Jews were killed. I wouldn't blame them for wanted their on little country so they can at least say they are safe. Jews haven't really done anything to anyone to force that has been done to them. Most people dislike them because they are intelligent and know how to deal with money (first started charging interest as merchants in the Middle Ages).

At least the cease fire plan has gone through for a day so far. Thank god for RT news. Russians actually show proper news stories and no western media bullshit.

You present a very one-sided case for Israel. What about the Palestinian side?

[StylinRed]

he presents an irrelevant case as its for a State of Israel which isn't the argument here and it's based on ancient stories. The whole mess is revolving around the occupied territories within Gaza and the West Bank which is causing the displacement of millions of Palestinians, forcing them to live in sub par refugee camps, and the fact that Palestinians not in the refugee camps are living in apartheid, a modern day concentration camp!

The very fact that he blatantly dismisses this and holds a biased view of ancient history to a higher regard, which he uses to justify actions against palestinians (the same actions that the jews faced), warrants him not to be taken seriously imo
Posted via RS Mobile

[MindBomber]

There are different sects of Judaism and when different parts of this religion teach that Jews are gods chosen people and with the whole migrating into European societies and charging interest to poor people, creating social economic problems, could be why many countries across Europe collectively expelled Jewish people. One or more of Shakespear's famous plays tell of these stories.

Shakespear did not intended his plays as historical accounts, and you follow in a tradition of anti-semites who lack a basic understanding of the texts to offer it as such.

The Merchant of Venice is not a criticism of Jewish people, it is a criticism of the persecution suffered by them.

[drunkrussian]

lol cause shakespeare wasnt anti semetic at all...
Posted via RS Mobile

[MindBomber]

lol cause shakespeare wasnt anti semetic at all...
Posted via RS Mobile

Scholars do not consider Shakespeare to be an anti-semite, quite the opposite.

A superficial reading of a play written with profound and deep complexities results in a dramatic misinterpretation of it.

Marlowe was likely an anti-semite, but the jury is somewhat still out.

[wasabisashimi]

When will they stop the fighting? This is worst than Kim Jung Il, Sadam and George Bush Jr. combined! Such a waste of money and lives.

[belka]

You present a very one-sided case for Israel. What about the Palestinian side?

Palestinians don't have a right to anything. They elected a terrorist organization who's sole purpose is the destruction of Israel, not the welfare of their own people. Palestinians/Hamas are basically the front line of the Arabs war against the Jews and Israel. If the Palestinian problem didn't exist then Iran and the rest of the Arab world would have to fight Israel directly - militarily. The last 60 years has shown that fighting the IDF directly is suicide. Arabs know they won't win a conventional war vs. Israel so they use groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to fight for them. Cowards and pussies.

[ProBoostin]

You present a very one-sided case for Israel. What about the Palestinian side?

Well yeah since the first sentence explains that I was giving information about the history of the "Jews" and not "Jews and Palestinians"

And I very much know that both parties want the same land and neither wants to be left out with less than the other. It's going to take some hardcore negotiating to come to a conclusion over the whole war.

I haven't read much on the Palestinian side and their views of the situation, which is why I feel I don't have the right to comment on a such a topic. If I'm not sure about something I most likely won't comment with an answer. I'll post a question instead to get more insight on the topic.

[CharlesInCharge]

When you say "Jews haven't really done anything to anyone to force that has been done to them." the documentary, This Land Speaks Arabic, shows how Palestinians have been genocided from the very beginning of the immigration and this has continued to more recent event as the Jenin town massacres. Your either playing stupid and passing disinformation or you're ignorant.

Shakespear did not intended his plays as historical accounts, and you follow in a tradition of anti-semites who lack a basic understanding of the texts to offer it as such.

The Merchant of Venice is not a criticism of Jewish people, it is a criticism of the persecution suffered by them.Shakespear's early writing is the only thing I can think of which dealt with usury in that time, I just remember the Al Pacino Merchant of Venice movie where he wanted some guys limb cut off for not being able to pay his debts.

Lastly, it cool of you to throw the word anti-semite around without explaining why.

Palestinians don't have a right to anything. They elected a terrorist organization who's sole purpose is the destruction of Israel, not the welfare of their own people. Palestinians/Hamas are basically the front line of the Arabs war against the Jews and Israel. If the Palestinian problem didn't exist then Iran and the rest of the Arab world would have to fight Israel directly - militarily. The last 60 years has shown that fighting the IDF directly is suicide. Arabs know they won't win a conventional war vs. Israel so they use groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to fight for them. Cowards and pussies.These groups you mention consist of honourable men who sacrifice themselves to free their people.
Where as imperial powers, after defeating the Ottomans, started dividing the area into countries to better conqueror them... and installed a none Arab army with the fake Zionist Jewish state ideology.
Oil may have not been critical then, but the route to India via the passage there sure as hell was and still is.

What do you have to say about the Tel Aviv university professor I linked to who wrote the best selling Isreali novel When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?

[GabAlmighty]

Couple nukes would sort this problem right out...

[belka]

These groups you mention consist of honourable men who sacrifice themselves to free their people.

You are correct on that one. The more "honourable men" that those groups get, the better the IDF gets at killing them. If only more "honourable men" would join and sacrifice their pathetic existence for their pointless, unattainable cause. Arabs won't win with force, but they are too stupid to realize this.

[CharlesInCharge]

You are correct on that one. The more "honourable men" that those groups get, the better the IDF gets at killing them. If only more "honourable men" would join and sacrifice their pathetic existence for their pointless, unattainable cause. Arabs won't win with force, but they are too stupid to realize this.
I guess your silence on the professors view show that you acknowledge that Isreali citizens are nothing but cannon fodder for the imperial Zionist.

[GabAlmighty]

I guess your silence on the professors view show that you acknowledge that Isreali citizens are nothing but cannon fodder for the imperial Zionist.

Oh for fucks sake.

[CharlesInCharge]

Sounds harsh but why did the powers put Isreali's in danger of Saddam who is notorious for killing thousands of people with chemical bombs.

[Mr.Money]

When will they stop the fighting? This is worst than Kim Jung Il, Sadam and George Bush Jr. combined! Such a waste of money and lives.

The Ego's of old men...these fuckers don't care how many people die,long as they keep fulfilling their own justice & revenge each time what little bomb they drop..

[Graeme S]

Unfortunately, I suspect this back and forth vitriolic rhetoric dispute is the reason that there wasn't an Israel/Gaza thread before this.

[m!chael]

YES! I was hoping CIC would come into this thread and give his 2 cents. Guy always delivers the lols with his Ahmadinejad rants.

[GabAlmighty]

Sounds harsh but why did the powers put Isreali's in danger of Saddam who is notorious for killing thousands of people with chemical bombs.

Because racewars.

[MindBomber]

Shakespear's early writing is the only thing I can think of which dealt with usury in that time, I just remember the Al Pacino Merchant of Venice movie where he wanted some guys limb cut off for not being able to pay his debts.

Lastly, it cool of you to throw the word anti-semite around without explaining why.

Shakespear's, The Merchant of Venice, is a response to Marlowe's, The Jew of Malta, which is a much more harsh depiction of Jewish people and usury. There are numerous other examples. Distasteful, and often inaccurate, criticism of Jews was a popular subject at the time. One might liken it to criticism of Islam, such as is somewhat popular now.

The taking of a pound of flesh symbolizes religious chastization, and is related to the physical circumcision in Judaism and metaphorical circumcision in Christianity. In the terms of an Elizabeathen playwright, "flesh" actually means penis.

A Hollywood depiction of Shakespeare has roughly the same accuracy as a Westboro Baptist Church depiction of Islam. These types of gross misinterpretations are the reason why Shakespeare went to enormous lengths to try and ensure everything he ever produced died with him (he was partially, and very nearly entirely successful).

I use the word anti-semite, because you expressed an irrational suspicion of Jewish people in your post.

[CharlesInCharge]

Nice, the suspension is killing me, what suspicion of Jews did I post to make me an anti-semite?

Its a fact that Jews were expelled from many European countries, do you know why?
Ive read its because usury was against Christianity and some Jews practiced this... it also doesnt sound too great if some sects of Judaism, or is it believed as a whole?, saying they are a superior human then everyone else. These could be believable reasons as to why they've been expelled as a whole. Im no history buff, only things Ive read on the internet, so maybe you can educate us rather then tease.

[MindBomber]

Nice, the suspension is killing me, what suspicion of Jews did I post to make me an anti-semite?

Its a fact that Jews were expelled from many European countries, do you know why?
Ive read its because usury was against Christianity and some Jews practiced this... it also doesnt sound too great if some sects of Judaism, or is it believed as a whole?, saying they are a superior human then everyone else. These could be believable reasons as to why they've been expelled as a whole. Im no history buff, only things Ive read on the internet, so maybe you can educate us rather then tease.

Jews were expelled because they were not Christian, no other reason.

Prominent Christian families practiced usury, debilitating interest rates and harsh punishment for lack of payment was the standard practice for anyone who loaned money to anyone. It was like the mafia today, no regulation and greed overriding morals.

You have a strangely significant bias against Judaism for someone who isn't an anti-semite, but maybe you're just going to all the wrong websites for information and its morphing your perspective. I retract my statement if it offends you, I was just calling it as I see it.

[Manic!]

only things Ive read on the internet.

:facepalm: :facepalm:

[G-spec]

well I'm sure some of you are wondering how the recent ceasefire came about....
if you want the western perspective, go watch western news...

the real truth that's being talked about now within the muslim community is that Hamas just received delivery (from Iran) of guided rockets that are actually able to hit targets within Israel with accuracy like never before, I'm talkin like if they wanna hit Israeli military bases they can now, if they want to hit downtown Tel Aviv, they can now, it's nothing like they've had before.....
this offcourse has Israel reconsidering their approach, because now they know they are not free to launch their own attacks into Palestine killing women and children without similar repercussions happening on their own soil.

It's also one of the few reasons why Israel so urgently insists that Iran basically be invaded and overthrown, they are a clear threat to Israel and they don't just sit around try and pass acts uselessly like the UN (just how Israel likes it)

[Graeme S]

well I'm sure some of you are wondering how the recent ceasefire came about....
if you want the western perspective, go watch western news...

the real truth that's being talked about now within the muslim community is that Hamas just received delivery (from Iran) of guided rockets that are actually able to hit targets within Israel with accuracy like never before, I'm talkin like if they wanna hit Israeli military bases they can now, if they want to hit downtown Tel Aviv, they can now, it's nothing like they've had before.....
this offcourse has Israel reconsidering their approach, because now they know they are not free to launch their own attacks into Palestine killing women and children without similar repercussions happening on their own soil.

It's also one of the few reasons why Israel so urgently insists that Iran basically be invaded and overthrown, they are a clear threat to Israel and they don't just sit around try and pass acts uselessly like the UN (just how Israel likes it)
But if the rockets are guided, then it would seem to me that the Iron Dome would be even more effective at knocking them down (good targeting = predictable course = easier to hit).

It's also my understanding that in the first strikes that Israel made, they knocked out launch pads for any type of serious rocket, as well as smuggling routes for further missiles and warheads.



Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it usually a good idea to move from a position of strength? If you've got big guns, open with them and say "Want more of that? No? Then let's negotiate."

It's what the Yanks did to Japan.

[CharlesInCharge]

I hear things like how Zionist calculated how many calories the Gazan's needed just to stay alive on the brink of starvation and how they restricted things like tomato paste and chocolate from being imported.

Why open the boarders and let them cross into Egypt now if this was to teach a lesson.
edit - they also get more farm land back and are able to fish farther with this truce.

Also a rocket or rockets have landed in Tel aviv, so its dome has flaws... even if they where guided by GPS, I doubt any special interceptors are made to intercept their course.

@MindBomber. I dont think things are that simple. Jews expelled from Europe... because Jewish.
And I dont have a bias against the Jewish religion or ethnic peoples, just isrealis and Zionists.

[belka]

the real truth that's being talked about now within the muslim community is that Hamas just received delivery (from Iran) of guided rockets that are actually able to hit targets within Israel with accuracy like never before, I'm talkin like if they wanna hit Israeli military bases they can now, if they want to hit downtown Tel Aviv, they can now, it's nothing like they've had before.....

I can guarantee you that if any of those guided rockets lands in a populated area with serious casualties then Israel would unleash hell on Gaza, there won't be stopping the IDF then. That little shit strip of land will get reoccupied and more Palestinians will die. Another generation wasted away....

[drunkrussian]

But if the rockets are guided, then it would seem to me that the Iron Dome would be even more effective at knocking them down (good targeting = predictable course = easier to hit).

It's also my understanding that in the first strikes that Israel made, they knocked out launch pads for any type of serious rocket, as well as smuggling routes for further missiles and warheads.



Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it usually a good idea to move from a position of strength? If you've got big guns, open with them and say "Want more of that? No? Then let's negotiate."

It's what the Yanks did to Japan.

I can guarantee you that if any of those guided rockets lands in a populated area with serious casualties then Israel would unleash hell on Gaza, there won't be stopping the IDF then. That little shit strip of land will get reoccupied and more Palestinians will die. Another generation wasted away....



actually i read that this time around mosques and hospitals are not off limits for bombing, because israel wanted to stress that they are not fucking around this time. Like what you're saying with "want more of that? no? let's negotiate". Not saying i support this, jut saying what i've read.

[wasabisashimi]

I am kinda noob in these international politic stuff, but can someone explain why north korea and south korea don't fire missles at each other and China doesnt drop bombs to Taiwan. This Middle East situation hasn't changed with all the car/bus bombs and lives taken in like past 30yrs.

[drunkrussian]

^my opinion:

because n korea/s korea and twaiwan/china is government vs. government, whereas israel vs. <whatever terrorist group is currently calling shots in palestine> is government vs. terrorist group

terrorists do not participate in political discussion

[Lomac]

The Korean War technically never ended, actually. An armistace was signed, but no peace treaty as ever made. As for why it doesn't simply continue, there have been minor instances between the two countries, but considering NK has China backing them and SK has the USA, any war between the Koreas will suddently become a superpower battle.

[Jason00S2000]

I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be to be born in North Korea... I am fucking thankful for being in Canada, fuck yeah

[Graeme S]

I am kinda noob in these international politic stuff, but can someone explain why north korea and south korea don't fire missles at each other and China doesnt drop bombs to Taiwan. This Middle East situation hasn't changed with all the car/bus bombs and lives taken in like past 30yrs.
North and South Korea don't nuke each other for several reasons. As has been stated previously, they are both still at war. Unfortunately, because this war started back during the days of the cold war, it was (at the time) essentially a proxy war between the US and the USSR. Initially, the US was actually reluctant to support Korea at all, but when they discovered the level of support China and the USSR was providing to "The Commies" (Kim Il Sung, Kim Jung Il's dad), they were like "aw fuck, I guess we have to do something about this". So they sent in tanks and whatnot, and fought back to the line that exists now.

Since there was never an official end to the war, both sides have built up armaments assuming fighting will begin again. However because Korea is a fucking TINY country, each side has armaments all over their respective countries that could completely level the other side. Truthfully, North Korea doesn't need nuclear bombs. They have artillery which could destroy much of the capital city, and can reach about 80% of the rest of the country.

They are aware, however, that as soon as they launched an attack, there would be instant reprisals from the extremely strong and well armed South Korean military, as well as the American military forces currently stationed in and around the Korean peninsula. And since the US has been doing the whole "shit we gotta worry about China" pivot, there's been a lot more forces stationed in the Pacific.

All of that having been said, one of the main reasons neither side has truly tried to take control of the other is that each side believes that the other part belongs to them. The Southerners I used to teach would often talk about the double-edged sword they faced; on one hand they wanted Korea to be reunited again, but on the other they were worried about a much larger scale version of the East/West Germany issue--it is gonna take HUGE amounts of money, time, and effort to reunite the two.

Also causing problems in the other direction is that if the South attacks, North Korea has a defence pact with China: if the North gets attacked and needs assistance, China will come in with aid. Now, nobody really knows what that means and whether or not China would really come in, but...it's a big concern. Some of my students suggest that even if the North Korean government collapses on its own, that China would happily move in and annex North Korea in order to present a further buffer between China proper and the American forces.


As far as China and Taiwan, that issue is just as complicated and I'm not nearly as knowledgeable about it. Much of it again, however, comes down to the fact that the US has forces stationed in and around Taiwan and each side is extremely worried about the reprisals from the other should something happen.

In pretty much all of these cases in Asia it's leftovers from WW2 and/or the Cold War with mutual defence pacts which have resulted in giant large-scale Mexican standoffs. Nobody wants to lose what they have, and nobody wants to lose more than the other guy if a war starts.

[drunkrussian]

so essentially with korea/china, both sides know that if they act with nukes, the U.S and other powers would step in and level them.

With Israel/Gaza similarly, supporting gaza means supporting terrorism, which means the U.S coming after you. Nobody wants that. Exactly what happened in the gulf war when sadam supported gaza/threatened israel and the u.s stepped in.

So essentialy, nobody steps in for gaza...and therefore gaza's terrorist leadership attacks israel. Israel retaliates, and there we have the shit show that we have

[Graeme S]

so essentially with korea/china, both sides know that if they act with nukes, the U.S and other powers would step in and level them.

With Israel/Gaza similarly, supporting gaza means supporting terrorism, which means the U.S coming after you. Nobody wants that. Exactly what happened in the gulf war when sadam supported gaza/threatened israel and the u.s stepped in.

So essentialy, nobody steps in for gaza...and therefore gaza's terrorist leadership attacks israel. Israel retaliates, and there we have the shit show that we have
First off, quick sidenote: South Korea has no nuclear weapons. North Korea has begun development of them, but so far their tests have been (on a relative scale) unsuccessful. And they don't have a missile system with which to deliver a nuclear payload. So the nuclear option in Korea isn't really viable. As far as China and Taiwan goes, China still claims Taiwan as its own (in their books, they categorize it as an SAR, similar to HK) so if they were to deploy nuclear weapons they'd be doing it "on their own soil" which would be extremely counterproductive.

Moving back to the main point of this thread, it all depends on how you frame it; violent governments are still governments. Given the level of sophistication that has been managed in these attacks and the fact that while living conditions in the region are poor but still livable, I would dispute your assertion that Hamas is unorganized. Assuming we remove that assertion, then the "group of terrorists running things" could be applied to North Korea as well. And Syria. And Burma/Myanmar. And possibly many others.

A violent government is not the same as a group of terrorists. Why? To steal and butcher an old phrase "Treason never prospers. Why? If it prospers, it is not treason."

Terrorists are only terrorists when they oppose a larger or more widely spoken group. I'm fairly certain that in areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and many other nations America is called "the biggest terrorists in the history of the world". With the number of drone strikes and bombs dropped by the US, one could argue that they are doing much more killing and murder than Hamas.


Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to imply that the US and Hamas are by any means equals on any level. What I am trying to say is that debates like this are often difficult because of the loaded nature of the words and the framing used in them. If you're not comfortable calling Hamas the government of the Gaza Strip, then why not use the expression "De Facto government"?

Slinging mud in either direction simply gets both sides more dirty. If we want to stop more people from dying, we need to back away from the rhetoric and move towards active discourse--real discussions, not just labels.

[ProBoostin]

I found this article very interesting. My History teacher gave the class this website (http://www.tomdispatch.com/) to check out and I found some other articles through some of the sources used. Which is this one: Top Ten Steps that are Necessary for Lasting Gaza-Israel Peace (or, Good Luck!) | Informed Comment (http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-steps-that-are-necessary-for-lasting-gaza-israel-peace-or-good-luck.html).

I haven't been able to look through much of the articles on these sites yet, but from what my prof said this isn't western media stuff.

[Manic!]

If a rocket is controlled by GPS it's not a rocket it's a missile. Rockets cannot change trajectory mid air only missiles can. The US military/government invented the GPS system and controls the satellites. If GPS missiles became a real threat they could simply just turn off the satellites in a certain region or change the signal to misguide the missiles.


Sooner the world realizes Israel and Palestine are just like 6 year old kids fighting the better.

[wasabisashimi]

First off, quick sidenote: South Korea has no nuclear weapons. North Korea has begun development of them, but so far their tests have been (on a relative scale) unsuccessful. And they don't have a missile system with which to deliver a nuclear payload. So the nuclear option in Korea isn't really viable. As far as China and Taiwan goes, China still claims Taiwan as its own (in their books, they categorize it as an SAR, similar to HK) so if they were to deploy nuclear weapons they'd be doing it "on their own soil" which would be extremely counterproductive.

Moving back to the main point of this thread, it all depends on how you frame it; violent governments are still governments. Given the level of sophistication that has been managed in these attacks and the fact that while living conditions in the region are poor but still livable, I would dispute your assertion that Hamas is unorganized. Assuming we remove that assertion, then the "group of terrorists running things" could be applied to North Korea as well. And Syria. And Burma/Myanmar. And possibly many others.

A violent government is not the same as a group of terrorists. Why? To steal and butcher an old phrase "Treason never prospers. Why? If it prospers, it is not treason."

Terrorists are only terrorists when they oppose a larger or more widely spoken group. I'm fairly certain that in areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and many other nations America is called "the biggest terrorists in the history of the world". With the number of drone strikes and bombs dropped by the US, one could argue that they are doing much more killing and murder than Hamas.


Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to imply that the US and Hamas are by any means equals on any level. What I am trying to say is that debates like this are often difficult because of the loaded nature of the words and the framing used in them. If you're not comfortable calling Hamas the government of the Gaza Strip, then why not use the expression "De Facto government"?

Slinging mud in either direction simply gets both sides more dirty. If we want to stop more people from dying, we need to back away from the rhetoric and move towards active discourse--real discussions, not just labels.

It just seems foolish that Israel and Hamas drops bombs on each other while NK, SK, China and Taiwan are all living normal without death and destruction to their cities despite the ambition of claiming the others land.

Like someone said above " bunch of 6 year olds fighting at the cost of living souls"

[Graeme S]

It just seems foolish that Israel and Hamas drops bombs on each other while NK, SK, China and Taiwan are all living normal without death and destruction to their cities despite the ambition of claiming the others land.

Like someone said above " bunch of 6 year olds fighting at the cost of living souls"
While all of these are disputes over land, territory, and systems of governing, none of these are direct parallels to any of the others. Even comparing China/Taiwan to North/South Korea is full of foibles, and both of those situations are both literally and figuratively thousands of kilometres away from the Israel/Palestine situation.

The biggest difference? Each of the Asian countries you listed believes that the other side is, essentially, a misguided offshoot of their own peoples. "They are us, but misguided and so we just need to make them understand".

Muslims and Jews (or Palestinians and Israelis, depending on how you frame the debate) have been in dispute for (if you'll pardon the pun) ages. Neither side believes that the other is anywhere near right, and in fact each side's religion essentially states that "All who don't believe what we believe are wrong and cannot live in the lands that were granted to you by God."

It's extremely difficult to look at the totality of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, because there are cultural and religious conflicts which go back more than a thousand years. It's hard to say where it started and when, because everyone's ideas of "the start" are different. These things make Israel/Palestine a completely different ball game from TW/CN and DPRK/ROK.

[rsx]

It just seems foolish that Israel and Hamas drops bombs on each other while NK, SK, China and Taiwan are all living normal without death and destruction to their cities despite the ambition of claiming the others land.

Like someone said above " bunch of 6 year olds fighting at the cost of living souls"

My opinion.

The middle east is in a shit hole because of influences from the East and West. What's going on right now is a proxy war. The US and her allies have a long list of overthrowing leaders that aren't friendly to their interests. In my opinion, this doesn't allow proper political evolution for a country that's constantly being influenced/arm twisted by other governments and it only cultivates insurrection.

[belka]

My opinion.

The middle east is in a shit hole because of influences from the East and West. What's going on right now is a proxy war. The US and her allies have a long list of overthrowing leaders that aren't friendly to their interests. In my opinion, this doesn't allow proper political evolution for a country that's constantly being influenced/arm twisted by other governments and it only cultivates insurrection.

We should leave Arab countries to their own demise. We had no right to interfere in Libya, if those idiots want to kill each other then why should we stop them. I'm glad we left Syria and Egypt alone to sort themselves out.

[Graeme S]

We should leave Arab countries to their own demise. We had no right to interfere in Libya, if those idiots want to kill each other then why should we stop them. I'm glad we left Syria and Egypt alone to sort themselves out.
Egypt was, on a relative scale, orderly. Libya was essentially clear-cut on who the rebels and the government were, and was very spread out. A very clean war.

Syria has been left alone for the time being, but with the formation of a new opposition that is slowly gaining more and more backing from western countries, Syria may not be "left alone" for that much longer.

[wasabisashimi]

Religion didn't teach about peace according to these people/terrorists i guess. Sounds like a scam to me.

[Graeme S]

Religion didn't teach about peace according to these people/terrorists i guess. Sounds like a scam to me.
It all comes down to what parts you want to listen to. it's often much easier to hate or blame others than it is to listen to their feelings and/or concerns and help. Hating isn't isolated to these groups. Westboro Church anyone?

[RRxtar]

UN to recognize state of Palestine
by The Canadian Press - Story: 83920
Nov 29, 2012 / 8:26 pm

The United Nations voted overwhelmingly Thursday to recognize a Palestinian state, a victory decades in the making for the Palestinians after years of occupation and war. It was a sharp rebuke for Israel and the United States.

A Palestinian flag was quickly unfurled on the floor of the General Assembly, behind the Palestinian delegation, as the final vote was cast.

In an extraordinary lineup of international support, more than two-thirds of the world body's 193 member states approved the resolution upgrading the Palestinians to a nonmember observer state. It passed 138-9, with 41 abstentions.

The historic vote came 65 years to the day after the U.N. General Assembly voted in 1947 to divide Palestine into two states, one for Jews and one for Arabs. Israel became a state but the Palestinians rejected the partition plan, and decades of tension and violence have followed.

Real independence, however, remains an elusive dream until the Palestinians negotiate a peace deal with the Israelis, who warned that the General Assembly action will only delay a lasting solution. Israel still controls the West Bank, east Jerusalem and access to Gaza, and it accused the Palestinians of bypassing negotiations with the campaign to upgrade their U.N. status.

In the West Bank city of Ramallah, jubilant Palestinians crowded into the main square, waving Palestinian flags and chanting "God is great!" Hundreds had watched the vote on outdoor screens and televisions, and they hugged, honked their horns and set off fireworks as the final vote was cast.

The tally came after a speech by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas in which he called the moment a "last chance" to save the two-state solution.

"The General Assembly is being asked today to issue the birth certificate of Palestine," the Palestinian leader declared.

The United States and Israel immediately criticized the vote.

"Today's unfortunate and counterproductive resolution places further obstacles in the path of peace," U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice said. "Today's grand pronouncements will soon fade and the Palestinian people will wake up tomorrow and find that little about their lives has changed save that the prospects of a durable peace have only receded."

Calling the vote "meaningless," Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu accused Abbas of spreading "mendacious propaganda" against Israel in a speech he rejected as "defamatory and venomous."

"The resolution in the U.N. today won't change anything on the ground," Netanyahu said. "It won't advance the establishment of a Palestinian state, but rather, put it further off."

Israel gives exactly 0 shits about this and publicly says tomorrow will be the same as yesterday.

[StylinRed]

VIDEO: U.N. General Assembly Votes to Recognize the State of Palestine - YouTube



yeah Israel can pretend to give 0 shits about it but they're obviously pissed off

Soo much so that they announced 3000 new homes to be built in the occupied territories of gaza/west bank Israel reportedly announces new construction in settlements | JTA - Jewish & Israel News (http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/11/30/3113261/israel-reportedly-announces-new-construction-in-settlements)

[4doorVIP]

LiveLeak.com - Iron dome intercepts volleys of rockets all over Israel 29/7/2014

Iron Dome at work, very cool imo.

[MG1]

^nice bump.........


I didn't even know kuno was old enough to be on RS in 2012, LOL.

I vaguely remember this thread.........until I saw mindbomber's "Hot Israely Army Women" post. Then it all came back to me.