[StylinRed]

Harper government approves Nexen and Progress takeover deals
Asian-state controlled firms now operate the enterprises
The Canadian Press Dec 07, 2012 15:35:18 PM

OTTAWA - The federal government has approved the takeovers of Calgary-based Nexen Inc. and Progress Energy Resources Corp. by Asian state-controlled firms.
The China National Offshore Oil Co. and Malaysia's Petronas received the OK from the government as part of a wide-ranging update of foreign takeover rules.
However, the government said it will only consider future takeover deals in the oilsands by state-owned companies in exceptional circumstances.

In addition, all state-owned enterprises seeking to buy large Canadian companies will face greater scrutiny about how they operate and how much control their home governments would have over how they do business.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says foreign state control of oilsands development has reached the point where further control would not be beneficial to Canada.
"When we say that Canada is open for business, we do not mean that Canada is for sale to foreign governments," Harper said.

The China National Offshore Oil Co., CNOOC, launched a friendly $15.1 billion bid for Nexen in July, providing a series of guarantees to the Canadian government on job creation, head office location, and corporate governance.

In a statement, Industry Minister Christian Paradis said he was satisfied that the deal would be a net benefit to Canada.

Initially, Malaysia's Petronas $6 billion bid for Progress Energy was rejected by the federal government and the company later revised its proposal.
Paradis said the company made "significant commitments" in several areas that satisfied him the deal was in net benefit to Canada.

In revising the guidelines for state-owned enterprises, the Conservatives are answering criticisms that the rules were too vague to provide certainty for investors.

But at the same time, they responded to Canadians' concerns about the implications of allowing foreign-owned firms to play a major role in Canada's natural resources sector.
The government made three major changes to the guidelines.

First, they increased the threshold for review under the Investment Canada Act for takeovers by foreign private investors to $1 billion from $330 million.
But the $330 million threshold will remain in place for state-owned enterprises.

They also gave the Minister of Industry the ability to extend the time available to conduct a national security review of proposed investments.
The CNOOC deal did not trigger a security review.

But the biggest change comes for state-owned enterprises, with the government elaborating extensively on how proposed bids from those companies will be handled in the future.
They set out five specific elements that investors will need to demonstrate in order for the government to consider approving a proposal.
At the top of the list is that the investment is commercially oriented and that the investor is free from political influence.

Canada's spy agency raised a red flag on foreign investment by state-owned firms in its annual report earlier this year.
Though CSIS didn't name specific countries or companies, it said certain state-owned enterprises have pursued what it called opaque agendas or received clandestine intelligence support for their pursuits in Canada.

CNOOC and Nexen also had a pre-existing relationship. Last year, CNOOC scooped up Opti Canada, Nexen's beleaguered minority partner in its troubled Long Lake oilsands project. The two firms also worked together in the Gulf of Mexico.

http://www.news1130.com/news/national/article/429532--harper-government-approves-nexen-and-progress-takeover-deals

Against the views of most including csis Harper sold out to China and as a "consolation" claims "next time he won't" lol :seriously:





http://business.financialpost.com/2012/12/07/ottawa-approves-nexen-and-progress-takeover-deals/ Better article



Below is a list of China’s other investments in Canadian oil and gas companies and assets:

2012

*September – Talisman Energy Inc says Sinopec Corp , China’s top refiner, agreed to buy a 49% stake in its North Sea operations for $1.5 billion.

*February – PetroChina agrees to buy a 20% stake in Royal Dutch Shell Plc’s Groundbirch shale gas property in northeastern British Columbia for an undisclosed price.

*January – PetroChina becomes the first Chinese state-owned company to wholly own a Canadian oil sands development after agreeing to buy out Athabasca Oil Sands Corp’s stake in a newly approved project for C$680 million ($687.81 million).

2011

*November – Nexen and CNOOC form a joint venture to explore Nexen’s Gulf of Mexico properties for an undisclosed price.

*October – Sinopec agrees to buy Canadian oil and gas explorer Daylight Energy Ltd for $2.2 billion in cash to acquire its northeastern British Columbia shale gas holdings.

*July – CNOOC agrees to buy struggling Opti Canada Inc for US$34-million and US$2-billion in debt, to gain a 35% stake in Nexen’s underperforming Long Lake oil sands project in northern Alberta.

*June – Encana Corp and PetroChina walk away from a $5.4 billion deal that would have seen the two form a joint venture to exploit Encana’s massive Cutbank Ridge gas field in northeastern British Columbia.

2010

* April – Sinopec agrees to buy ConocoPhillips’ 9.03% stake in Syncrude Canada Ltd for US$4.65-billion.

* April – Penn West Exploration sells a 45% stake in an oil sands project to China Investment Corp for $817-million.

2009

* August – PetroChina agrees to buy a 60% stake in two undeveloped oil sands properties held by Athabasca Oil Sands Corp that could eventually produce as much as 500,000 barrels per day.

* April – Sinopec acquires an additional 10% stake in Total SA’s undeveloped Northern Lights oil sands project for a price that has not yet been disclosed. The purchase brings Sinopec’s stake in Northern Lights to 50%. Construction of Northern Lights, once expected to cost US$10.7-billion, is on hold.

2005

* April – CNOOC pays US$122-million for 16.7% in MEG Energy Ltd, which is developing an oil sands project in northern Alberta that could eventually pump up to 210,000 bpd, while other properties in MEG’s portfolio could eventually produce 500,000 bpd, according to company documents.
With files from Reuters

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOL next BC hydro sold to North Korean!!!

[dinosaur]

FFS!

Everyday another story comes out that makes me hate this man more and more.

[shawnly1000]

LOL next BC hydro sold to North Korean!!!

Definitely will need my double layered tin foil hat if the NKs are in control of the Smart Meters :troll:

[Spoon]

Not surprised? Harper's been trying to suck up to China for awhile. Consider it as the price to pay in order to mend the fence. He's done quite a few things to piss the Chinese off in his earlier years.

[Tapioca]

Not surprised? Harper's been trying to suck up to China for awhile. Consider it as the price to pay in order to mend the fence. He's done quite a few things to piss the Chinese off in his earlier years.

Exactly. It's all political.

There are Canadian energy companies making similar deals in other parts of the world. What should these companies do? Pull out lest they be accused of being hypocrites?
Posted via RS Mobile

[european]

This is crazy!

[tool001]

as Alison Redford said.. should just lease out Resources than sell outright

[Mr.HappySilp]

FFS!

Everyday another story comes out that makes me hate this man more and more.

Well I think honestly he is trying to befriend with China to get more bunsiess under way, but I think this is just wrong any natural resource should be control by Canadian investors or Canadian own compnay with over 70% investor by Canadians.

We are literally selling Canada lol. What's next? Buy our Bydro company, power company and ship them to China leaving us with nothing or charge us doulbe or triple of what we pay now?

[StylinRed]

what's amusing is the govt has been moving away from canadian state owned industries (which imo we shouldn't have) only to sell to a foreign state

now all we have to wait for are the droves of chinese foreign workers that will take up the lucrative positions in the oil industry :) (they're already doing it to the mining industry)

[yray]

inb4 Edmonton becomes beijington :troll:

[murd0c]

inb4 Edmonton becomes beijington :troll:

then people might actually want to live there :fullofwin:

[GLOW]

after reading the thread title i'm thinking - does this mean that we'll see audi's parking wherever they want in alberta? :troll:

[Yodamaster]

Harper can get the fuck out.

[Mike Oxbig]

I smell butt hurt cacausians in this thread :troll:

[m!chael]

.

[Manic!]

Canadians get useless Arts degrees -> Complain about how life is tough and how they can't get a job (As per CIC's thread Canadian Youth have it hard) -> Unemployment in Alberta is 4.2% (too low)-> Guys who are 25 years old in Alberta make close to 100 g's with no education -> Huge labor shortage -> Chinese foreign workers come in and projects run at full capacity, pay taxes, economy expands-> Tears are shed.

Companies don't have to be owned by the Chinese to have foreign workers.

[m!chael]

.

[StylinRed]

Canadians get useless Arts degrees -> Complain about how life is tough and how they can't get a job (As per CIC's thread Canadian Youth have it hard) -> Unemployment in Alberta is 4.2% (too low)-> Guys who are 25 years old in Alberta make close to 100 g's with no education -> Huge labor shortage -> Chinese foreign workers come in and projects run at full capacity, pay taxes, economy expands-> Tears are shed.


I would prefer if those who were unemployed would get those jobs instead of foreign workers including the homeless even if it were to require training/therapy to get them there

i would have no problem with foreign labour if the companies who hired them intend them to be temporary and in the meantime pay for the aforementioned training/therapy required to get jobless canadians working in those fields

[Valour]

Expertise in mining is vastly different than in oil and gas. ALberta clearly has the leading edge in this and I do not see a justifiable argument by CNOOC to bring in these workers. CNOOC is a much larger strategic vision (ie secure energy supply) vs the BC mining operation (profit).

We got tit for tat on this deal. I read elsewear that Canada got access to China insurance market and grain market. Remember that China needs and relies on our exports to fuel their growth. If they piss us off we can turn off the taps. We are the ones in control.

That being said, Fuck Harper.

And I love titties... just saying.

[Verdasco]

title is really misleading... just saying.

[PiuYi]

i have no problem with foreign workers taking these hard labour jobs, don't mean to sound stereotypical but most of the guys working up north are low education/skill guys that found themselves in an oil boom so they're making 100g's a year... do they deserve 100g's a year? no i don't think so. So why not bring in more foreign (temp) workers to fill the labour shortage and lower these outrageous wages?

Chances are the temp workers are more deserving of the money anyway (have families to feed at home, etc.) instead of the young guys blowing their 100g's on escorts and drugs




Also, not sure why everybody's shittin their pants foreign companies are owning Canadian oil properties... if shit hits the fan, Canadian govt can always freeze their assets and seize what's on Canadian land, if shit doesn't hit the fan then that's great, we just got a huge injection of money to develop our sands

[StylinRed]

title is really misleading... just saying.

not at all

[Meowjin]

2 more months left in BC for me. I'm not gonna miss it here.

[Akinari]

Hey hey, $100 says our pipelines are going next :badpokerface:

...our North Arctic Passage, or fresh water resources...

The fact that he has sold NOT ONE, but TWO of our largest oil firms to TWO STATE-OWNED OIL FIRMS, is beyond infuriating.

This is absolutely ridiculous. If Nexen and Progress were sold off to private firms in America, alright I'd shrug my shoulders and say meh, Tories will be Tories. I mean, it's not the fact that he sold off Nexen and Progress, it's the fact that he sold them to Petronas and CNOOC that drives me insane. If he sold it to the Americans, alright whatever we've been selling things to the US since like 800 BC, but to state-run firms? Overseas? CHINA?! :rukidding::ohgodwhy::seriously::fulloffuck:

*pulls hair out*

I'm up to my limit of the Tories. I want them out of there ASAP when the next elections roll around. It's come to a situation where I dare say that I'd rather have Trudeau in office than Harper, and that's saying a lot, because Liberals are a bunch of tree hugging, tax-increasing hippies. At least he won't sell off half of Canada to state-run firms, something the Tories have been doing for who knows how long.

The Malaysian government itself has its problems and it will be interesting to see how the Malaysian government will act now.

This is from the comments of a CBC article:

Nexen's share prices went up once the announcement was made in favour of the deal. The CEO's of Nexen knew that would be the case and is the reason why they put pressure on Harper's government for as long and as hard as they did. Had the deal not gone through, Harper's government, and indeed Canada as a whole, would have felt a bone-jarring economic backlash. Did you not read what Manley proclaimed? "Canada welcomes foreign investment because it is good for our economy". So what's the difference between a CEO controlling a sector of the economy and a government? Harper is saying that he doesn't like foreign governments investing in our resources but it's okay for corporations. He didn't say communist governments.

So it's okay for multinational corporations to own Canada. As long as it's not the citizenry of a country owning our resource. Of course, the government is dead set against Canadians owning our own resources. Where we would get the benefit of them. He did okay the people of China to own in Canada. Where the people of China can get a good return on Canadian oil.

Apart from the fact that they complain that they need to hire foreign workers in the tarsands because Canadians aren't doing it. So why do we need the investment?

Our economy should be judged on more than one number called the GDP.

That takeover was pressured by 150 of Canada's TOP CEO's, the TOP 1% of the damn pyramid who couldn't care less about Canada. Think about it, do the math, that's 150 business cards on their way to China.

When the top 1% of our population thinks something is good, it's never good for the rest of us.

I have no doubt this event will go down in Canadian history books. "Harper sells off Canadian resources to state-run firms". And what's even more frightening is this is only the beginning. He still has another 2-3 years in office. You do the math.

I'm glad I'm majoring in polisci :ilied:

[Yodamaster]

I smell butt hurt cacausians in this thread :troll:

You're worse than Harper, do you even realise the complications of having a communist state run company having control of one of our most important natural resources?

You do understand that 40% of America's oil comes from Canada, right? Having a huge chunk of that being controlled (literally) by China is not okay.

You'll be eating your words if the Chinese decide that they want to up the price of oil.


Harper is digging his own grave.

[Akinari]

This is just mad capitalism, any sign of responsible government has gone down the drain. The Canadian political landscape is so corrupted and fucked up beyond belief it's appalling. And part of it can be attributed to our lousy SMP electoral system that put Harper into Office in the first place. We collapse under any sort of pressure other nations give us, Canadian politicians really need to grow a spine and think about the people for once, not just the 150 CEOs of Canada.

Don't even get me started on the F-35 deal.

[iEatClams]

Here's the thing, if this was Statoil - a Norwegian state-owned company, we wouldnt give a shiet about state owned companies taking over Nexen.

But because it's China, it becomes a political issue. Yes I don't want foreign chinese workers coming in here or china doing whatever they want with our oil.

I'm not a Fan of Harper by any means. But I was pretty satisfied by the way he played this thing. He approved Both takeovers, and said that this is "The end of a TREND"!

and that future state owned deals WONT be approved unless its for exceptional circumstances. Harper played this one perfectly, he needed the extra capital that the Chinese will bring in to Alberta (as well as BC with petronas building in kitimat), so he gave the Chinese a bone here, and said this is the last one.

Let's face it, the CNOOC payed a huge premium for Nexen, look at the stock price before and after, Nexen's earnings isnt as great as it use to be and the stock price would have probably went down below pre-takeover prices.

As long as he keeps his word, and these are the two last deals, I think it's the right move.

[Akinari]

Here's the thing, if this was Statoil - a Norwegian state-owned company, we wouldnt give a shiet about state owned companies taking over Nexen.

But because it's China, it becomes a political issue. Yes I don't want foreign chinese workers coming in here or china doing whatever they want with our oil.

I'm not a Fan of Harper by any means. But I was pretty satisfied by the way he played this thing. He approved Both takeovers, and said that this is "The end of a TREND"!

and that future state owned deals WONT be approved unless its for exceptional circumstances. Harper played this one perfectly, he needed the extra capital that the Chinese will bring in to Alberta (as well as BC with petronas building in kitimat), so he gave the Chinese a bone here, and said this is the last one.

Let's face it, the CNOOC payed a huge premium for Nexen, look at the stock price before and after, Nexen's earnings isnt as great as it use to be and the stock price would have probably went down below pre-takeover prices.

As long as he keeps his word, and these are the two last deals, I think it's the right move.

Ha...haha...hahaha

Firstly, Norway is not a corrupted communist nation who constantly abuses its power to further its own interests

And secondly, Harper keeping his word?!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24915569.jpg

If I could find that video on YouTube where Harper explicitly states that Canada's national resources are not for sale to any other foreign nation from a couple years back, I would.

[iEatClams]

^ one thing that scares me is that even the USA rejected a bid by CNOOC in 2005, and Canada approved them. US has to still approve of the Gulf oil assets, which many of the politicians there dont want.

Harper also said today he's tightening take-over rules for all industries from now on, not just oil. Let's hope he keeps his word. He better because I know the Chinese want our Potash and fertilizer resources as well. I'd be pissed if he approves takeover of our fertilizer companies.

[Akinari]

I'm surprised there are still people who take Harper's words seriously :badpokerface:

Via Vancouver Observer
China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC)'s business with Iran came under fire on The Rachel Maddow Show in late September. Maddow highlighted CNOOC's $16 billion natural gas development deal with Iran in 2006.

Given the scale of potential Chinese investment in Canada's natural resources, a major question that should be on many Canadians' minds is what percentage of ownership by the Chinese state is acceptable to Canadians in natural resources? Canadians are not happy about profits of their natural resources going out the state

China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC)'s business with Iran came under fire on The Rachel Maddow Show in late September. Maddow highlighted CNOOC's $16 billion natural gas development deal with Iran in 2006.

[iEatClams]

Ha...haha...hahaha

Firstly, Norway is not a corrupted communist nation who constantly abuses its power to further its own interests


that's exactly what Im trying to say, we wouldnt care if this was norway, but many (myself included) care because its fcking China. china is going to abuse their power and wont be playing by the same rules as western countries.


And secondly, Harper keeping his word?!



yea, this I agree with you on, im kinda afraid of this, it's a slippery slope here, first oil, fertilizers next. . .. . .

[Akinari]

Does anyone remember the Sinopec file? And Sinopec isn't even as bad as CNOOC...

Sinopec, Enbridge's Chinese business partner for the Northern Gateway Project, has a long record of corruption, human rights violations, environmental pollution and doing business with terrorist-linked governments.

A Tyee investigation found that the world's seventh largest corporation has been the subject of major bribery scandals at home and has systemically invested in rogue petro states from Angola to Myanmar.

The state-owned company has tried to improve its image in recent years with a series of multi-billion dollar investments in North America and the oil sands.

Yet Sinopec's earlier deals in Syria and Iran now are the subject of intense global controversy as the United States and European Union intensify sanctions against both countries.

"Today, energy is already the main driver of China's international behavior. Its energy needs have brought Beijing to turn a blind eye to human rights violations in Sudan, Myanmar and Uzbekistan," testified oil analyst Gal Luft before the U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs last year. "China's energy deals with Iran have already brought Beijing to block U.S. attempts to the UN Security Council to impose crippling sanctions against Tehran for continuing to develop nuclear weapons."

Sinopec also stands accused of violating Canadian law. In 2007 the collapse of several storage tanks at Canadian Natural Resources Horizon oil sands mine site killed two temporary Chinese workers and injured several others. A subsidiary of Sinopec flew the workers in for the job yet may have defrauded many of their wages, according to the Alberta government.

Two years later, the Alberta government served Sinopec and CNRL with an unprecedented 53 charges for failing to ensure worker health and safety. (Each charge comes with a maximum fine of $500,000.) Ever since then, Sinopec has stubbornly fought the charges, saying that its subsidiary has no presence in Canada and that the charges weren't served properly.

Sinopec's legal team now wants the Supreme Court of Canada to overturn a ruling that would force it to stand trial for ignoring Alberta's health and safety regulations.

"I've been watching Sinopec ever since the tank farm collapse and nothing has lessened my concern about this company. It's not my idea of a good corporate citizen," says Gil McGowan, president of the Alberta Federation of Labour.

He says that Canadians should be asking if Sinopec's investments in the country are "in Canada's interest or in China's best interest?"

Biggest refinery complex in Asia

Transparency International and Revenue Watch gives Sinopec one of the lowest rankings for fighting graft and corruption (32 per cent) in their most recent report on oil companies. Sinopec ranks ninth out of 44 leading oil and gas companies.

Formed in 1998 by the Communist Party of China, Sinopec (China Petrochemical Corporation) now operates the greatest refinery complex in Asia with annual operating revenues of nearly US$290 billion and some 600,000 employees.

Yet the firm, whose 30,000 filling stations make it a familiar brand among Chinese citizens, reports meagre profits due to state subsidization of gasoline and diesel fuel prices.

Sinopec is one of three Chinese national oil companies that went public in 2000. The China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC) is now the world's fifth largest oil company while Sinopec is the largest state-owned firm in terms of revenue. The China National Offshore Oil Corporation (CNOOC) remains the smaller of the three monopolies.

Directors of all three companies are appointed by Chinese Communist Party (CCP) through its Organization Department, an agency created by Chairman Mao in 1924. The CCP still holds 80 per cent of the company's shares. Every executive of China's three oil monopolies are, as the Economist magazine puts it, "cadres first and company men second."

Aided by state banks that provided soft loans and supported by China's "Going Abroad" policy, Sinopec and CNCP went on a global prowl for energy to feed China's growing economy. China, the world's second largest energy consumer, now imports half its oil.

In recent years Sinopec has amassed more overseas assets (oil fields and refineries) than any other Chinese company and recently conducted more mergers and acquisitions (74 deals worth nearly $50 billion since 2004) than Exxon Mobile.

'Human rights? We care about oil'

After Canada weakened its foreign investment rules in 2010, Sinopec bought a nine per cent stake in Syncrude (Canada's largest bitumen producer) for $4.5 billion. The controversial deal gave the refining giant the right to veto any Syncrude decision on where to upgrade and refine bitumen.

Sinopec, which also partnered with Total on another oil sands project, is also a key financial backer of the Northern Gateway pipeline.

The $6-billion proposal would pump raw bitumen from Alberta to the port of Kitimat and expose the pristine waters of British Columbia's Pacific coast to massive supertanker traffic and potential oil spills.

The Canadian government backs the project, but First Nations, environment groups, labour unions and other civic groups oppose it for a variety of economic, political and environmental reasons.

But Sinopec began its dramatic climb in the global oil business by systematically acquiring assets in troubled petro states throughout Africa and the Middle East, including Myanmar, Sudan and Iran.

"No matter if it's rogue's oil or a friend's oil, we don't care," explained one Chinese energy advisor to the Washington Post in 2005. "Human rights? We don't care. We care about oil. Whether Iran would have nuclear weapons or not is not our business. America cares, but Iran is not our neighbor. Anyone who helps China with energy is a friend."

Michael Klare, a U.S. oil expert at Hampshire College, says Sinopec choose "the pariah states because that's where there was an opening. The good stuff was already locked up by western companies."

Multi-billion dollar investments in Myanmar's oil and gas fields in 2004 financially strengthened that nation's brutal military junta. Church groups and non-governmental organizations have strongly criticized CNCP and Sinopec for cooperating closely with the Burmese military rulers.

Darfur and other investments

The Sudan has been another hotspot. Sinopec's investments combined China's weapons sales to Sudan's genocidal government even prompted Harvard University to divest its stock in the company in 2006 due to "deep concerns about the grievous crisis that persists in the Darfur region of Sudan and about the role of Sinopec Corporation."

Investments in extreme political environments for oil has been part of a coordinated overseas investment strategy that often includes political support for petro states at the United Nations, says a 2007 report published in the Australian journal Security Challenges.

"China is securing deals with the kinds of sweeteners that only its state-controlled entities can provide: billions of dollars in economic and military aid; access to China's growing markets; and diplomatic support at the United Nations where China can wield its veto power in the Security Council."

In 2004, Sinopec bought $2-billion worth of oil assets in worn-torn Angola and then invested billions more in the country (China now gets third of its oil from Africa). Although western oil companies (Chevron and Exxon Mobile) and governments have benefited from rampant corruption in the petro state, Sinopec has not raised the bar.

Human Rights Watch reported in 2010: "The rise of China as Angola's main trading partner has helped the Angolan government resist reforms, not least because China and Chinese companies do not call for good governance."

In another Africa controversy, Sinopec seismic crews dynamited wildlife habitat, hunted bush meat and contaminated rivers with oil waste in Gabon's famous Loango National Park.

The incident even prompted a reprimand from the European Union. After the government of Gabon stopped the exploration program, the company explained that they were just acting like other oil companies and weren't aware of Loango's sensitive ecological status.

"China is wrecking international efforts to bring economic and political sanity to impoverished and conflict-ridden communities in Africa by bankrolling corrupt and repressive regimes," declared a 2007 report by AfricaPractice.

Libya, Iran and Syria

Sinopec's investments in the Libya, Iran and Syria have also drawn widespread criticism.

After Sinopec purchased $2-billion worth of heavy oil assets from a Canadian firm (Tanganyika Oil) in 2008, China has steadfastly defended the regime of President Bashar al-Assad. Last week its Security Council members blocked a UN resolution that called for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to step aside.

Back in China, a country without a free press, a variety of corruption scandals and chronic environmental violations have quietly dogged the company.

In one celebrated case, a bribery scandal involving the company's former chairman Chen Tonghai put a spotlight on the extreme level of corruption in China's powerful state-owned companies.

In 2010, Beijing No. 2 Intermediate People's Court convicted Chen, former chairman of Asia's largest oil refiner, for taking $29-million yuan in bribes (US$4 million) between 1999 and 2007. Chen allegedly helped individuals "seeking illegal interests." The verdict did not name the bribers.

According to the China Times, the Sinopec chairman confessed to his crimes and received a suspended death sentence. Sinopec did not comment on the case at the time but later urged Beijing to crack down on "corrupt" foreign business practices.

[Yodamaster]

Here's the thing, if this was Statoil - a Norwegian state-owned company, we wouldnt give a shiet about state owned companies taking over Nexen.

But because it's China, it becomes a political issue. Yes I don't want foreign chinese workers coming in here or china doing whatever they want with our oil.

I'm not a Fan of Harper by any means. But I was pretty satisfied by the way he played this thing. He approved Both takeovers, and said that this is "The end of a TREND"!

and that future state owned deals WONT be approved unless its for exceptional circumstances. Harper played this one perfectly, he needed the extra capital that the Chinese will bring in to Alberta (as well as BC with petronas building in kitimat), so he gave the Chinese a bone here, and said this is the last one.

Let's face it, the CNOOC payed a huge premium for Nexen, look at the stock price before and after, Nexen's earnings isnt as great as it use to be and the stock price would have probably went down below pre-takeover prices.

As long as he keeps his word, and these are the two last deals, I think it's the right move.


Incorrect, any foreign takeover of a major Canadian resource firm is cause for arguement and rejection. This is not about racism, this is about the security of the country, and letting another country take the reigns of a chunk of oil production is not okay.

[iEatClams]

We collapse under any sort of pressure other nations give us, Canadian politicians really need to grow a spine and think about the people for once, not just the 150 CEOs of Canada.

Don't even get me started on the F-35 deal.

He did think about the people, which is why he changed the rules and said this is the end of the line, where that be true is another thing.

He also has to please the business world and approve the takeover.
I voted NPD the last election, and even I can see why harper did what he did and its pretty obvious. Your sending the wrong signal to the markets by rejecting these deals.

It's easy for you to sit behind your computer and fail everyone who disagrees with your views, but maybe if your not just a student and understand the management side of business you will understand the importance of capital investment.

[Yodamaster]

He did think about the people, which is why he changed the rules and said this is the end of the line, where that be true is another thing.

He also has to please the business world and approve the takeover.
I voted NPD the last election, and even I can see why harper did what he did and its pretty obvious. Your sending the wrong signal to the markets by rejecting these deals.

It's easy for you to sit behind your computer and fail everyone who disagrees with your views, but maybe if your not just a student and understand the management side of business you will understand the importance of capital investment.


You are not considering the part about this investment being largely influenced by a foreign government's interests, this is not a company as we know it to be, this is a branch of their government wanting control over our resources.

I do not disagree that investment in Canada is a good thing, but money is not the pressing issue here.

[iEatClams]

Incorrect, any foreign takeover of a major Canadian resource firm is cause for arguement and rejection. This is not about racism, this is about the security of the country, and letting another country take the reigns of a chunk of oil production is not okay.

I disagree, most people I talked to in the capital markets basically telling me that the Petronas deal probably would have been approved if the Nexen deal by China didnt come in. They couldnt just approve Progress (petronas) and reject Nexen.

Petronas is malaysian and they have a better "reputation" than china. Plus singapore is pretty open and free in a business sense.

It's political, if Statoil bid for Progress or Nexen, it wouldnt have been an issue.
Statoil actually owns quite a bit in Alberta already.

[Yodamaster]

I disagree, most people I talked to in the capital markets basically telling me that the Petronas deal probably would have been approved if the Nexen deal by China didnt come in. They couldnt just approve Progress (petronas) and reject Nexen.

Petronas is malaysian and they have a better "reputation" than china. Plus singapore is pretty open and free in a business sense.

It's political, if Statoil bid for Progress or Nexen, it wouldnt have been an issue.
Statoil actually owns quite a bit in Alberta already.


My issue is not with private enterprise, as I have already stated, this issue lies with a foreign government calling the shots. Statoil's 67% government ownership is cause for arguement.

[iEatClams]

You are not considering the part about this investment being largely influenced by a foreign government's interests, this is not a company as we know it to be, this is a branch of their government wanting control over our resources.

I do not disagree that investment in Canada is a good thing, but money is not the pressing issue here.

Yes but Petronas and CNOOC have made many concessions and altered their bids in order to get approved. ie. having board members being Canadian, headquarters in Calgary etc etc.

Listen, I'm 100% in agreement with you here that I dont want China state owned companies operating in Alberta.

But that's not the deck of hands we are playing with here. Given that we have Harper and a conservative majority (keep in mind I dont like harper and dont vote conserative), this was the best, most realistic possible outcome that came out of this decision.

He got concessions by the companies before the approval, and approved the deal, pleasing his political base, and is changing the rules so that these type of deals wont happen in the future.

[Akinari]

^No

as Alison Redford said.. should just lease out Resources than sell outright

^Yes

[Yodamaster]

Yes but Petronas and CNOOC have made many concessions and altered their bids in order to get approved. ie. having board members being Canadian, headquarters in Calgary etc etc.

Listen, I'm 100% in agreement with you here that I dont want China state owned companies operating in Alberta.

But that's not the deck of hands we are playing with here. Given that we have Harper and a conservative majority (keep in mind I dont like harper and dont vote conserative), this was the best, most realistic possible outcome that came out of this decision.

He got concessions by the companies before the approval, and approved the deal, pleasing his political base, and is changing the rules so that these type of deals wont happen in the future.


While those changes to the terms of their bids are more realistic, it does not change the fact that the company it's self is a foreign government entity.

I find it slightly more comforting that Harper has changed the rules for future engagements, but this deal has decreased my faith in Harper's government.

[StylinRed]

Harper also said today he's tightening take-over rules for all industries from now on, not just oil. Let's hope he keeps his word. He better because I know the Chinese want our Potash and fertilizer resources as well. I'd be pissed if he approves takeover of our fertilizer companies.

something along the lines of closing the barn door after the horse has bolted comes to mind

[flagella]

2 more months left in BC for me. I'm not gonna miss it here.

and we won't miss you either.

[FerrariEnzo]

I thought the government wants to PROMOTE more Canadian Businesses... WTF...

next up after getting rid of our resource companies, leasing/selling cities!!!

[J____]

Remember that China needs and relies on our exports to fuel their growth. If they piss us off we can turn off the taps. We are the ones in control.

This is untrue. With society so reliant on Chinese exports nowadays, can you REALLY turn off the taps? Look in your house, make a list of things not made in china, not very many. Even if you do find an alternative source, are you able to suck in the increase in price for the same merchandise? That's the problem with relying on imported goods, exactly like you said, tit for tat.

[MoBettah]

Nexen is a nobody. They've been a buyout candidate for years now and they're not very well respected in the industry. EDIT: The truth is no Western Company would be willing to pay such a ridiculous premium for Nexen.

Only 11% of their revenue comes from Canada and they are in essence a non player in this country.

I get why people buy into the whole China bogeyman mentality, if I was uneducated and unable to think and observe critically I would probably believe everything US television told me too!


You do understand that 40% of America's oil comes from Canada, right? Having a huge chunk of that being controlled (literally) by China is not okay.


Yes and currently we send about 95% of all energy exports to the US. While you obviously enjoy riding American dick, for the Canadian economy perhaps its not prudent to hedge our entire energy industry to the American state of affairs and economy. Regardless of what you believe about the industry, we've always given the American's right of refusal before seeking any deals elsewhere.

[flagella]

The amount of misinformation in this thread is saddening. I work in the industry and have covered Nexen a few times, and their Canadian production accounts for roughly ~10% of their total production (majority of the total production is from North Sea). The Canadian portion of the production comes from their Long Lake SAGD project with production of only 18.2 mbbls/d as of 9/30/2012 as it has been struggling for many years with SOR being one of the highest among its peers.

I honestly have no idea why people are making such a huge fuss out of this, as if a major player like Suncor, CNRL, Cenovus, etc., was acquired or something. PotashCorp was blocked because it was the dominant player in the world with the largest potash production.

Yes, I bet China owns Alberta now.

[Verdasco]

"I am from the future, go to china"

[penner2k]

Well I think honestly he is trying to befriend with China to get more bunsiess under way, but I think this is just wrong any natural resource should be control by Canadian investors or Canadian own compnay with over 70% investor by Canadians.

We are literally selling Canada lol. What's next? Buy our Bydro company, power company and ship them to China leaving us with nothing or charge us doulbe or triple of what we pay now?

At the end of the day if they dont play by our rules they wont have permits which will mean they wont be able to do anything.
Cant even put up a smoke pit without getting a permit.

[Mr.HappySilp]

At the end of the day if they dont play by our rules they wont have permits which will mean they wont be able to do anything.
Cant even put up a smoke pit without getting a permit.

and you think Harper won't give them the permit? LOL doesn't matter what he said. At the end of the day he can change his words or just say things have change now so we need to change as well.......

[penner2k]

and you think Harper won't give them the permit? LOL doesn't matter what he said. At the end of the day he can change his words or just say things have change now so we need to change as well.......

Harper doesnt give them the permits. lol...
that isnt a Federal Issue... that isnt even a provincial issue... If the locals arent happy with what they are doing up there they will cut every permit essentially making it impossible for them to actually get any work done.
And if they wont be bullied by the big oil companies they sure as hell wont be bullied by this Chinese company. lol

[lady_mapetite]

i agree with MoBettah. i honestly think this will benefit canada because we need to diversify our business partners and how we utilize our resources. harper isn't only trying to get into china's good books.. in the greater scheme of things, i think he's trying to give canada better leverage in the global economy. we have resources to offer to countries who need it but at the right price and not at the detriment of the canadian economy.

i hate the fact that canada put all their eggs in one basket and canadians have this conception that americans are our buddies.. they aren't. for instance, we sell them oil at a discounted price and they sell us back refined oil at market price. they sell us old/crappy military jets and tanks which cost millions to fix. the softwood lumber dispute? they asked to be bailed out for a mess they created and no one wanted to so they crash their currency and burn a hole in everyone's federal reserve.

the era of america is over. they screwed them themselves over in 2008 by letting wall street run wild and it's going to take a while for them to clean up this mess. i just think canada needs to stop selling itself short to america

[jasonturbo]

Lol at the stupidity in this thread. Honestly, there has been so many threads on this forums over the last couple years about Harper, Pipelines, and the Oilsands that I can't even be bothered to chime in anymore.

Nexen is a lemon, it's the failure of the oilsands, to be honest, I'm surprised the Chinese were stupid enough to buy it. Operating for 5 years and they are yet to reach and maintain even 50% of the original target production... and this is after billions more were invested to increase production. There is something about the formation which is just not receptive to SAGD, it's essentially the worst parcel of Oilsands land there is. Nexen is certainly not a huge portion of our natural resources..

Long Lake: 35,000BBL/day (This is the highest level of production they have attained, from 2008-2012 the avg production has been roughly 22,000BBL/day.)
Canada Production: 4,100,000BBL/day.

(Some tough math right there, less than 1% of daily production, and in couple years it will be less than half a percent due to some major projects coming online)

Oh and for the record, foreign workers have been at Long Lake since 2005, involved in both construction and operations. Right now, today, there are still foreign devils on that site stealing Canadian jobs!... and guess what, Canadian people made the decision to bring them here... not CNOOC or the Chinese Govt.

Maybe we should stop letting Chinese people immigrate to Canada? If we don't allow foreign investment I don't see why we let foreigners in either, they might have the same motives as the evil Chinese empire... (For &#&# sakes...)

Pipeline(s) will be approved, would you prefer they ship the oil by train???

Sigh, it's okay to have an opinion on anything, but at least try and have an educated one.

I can't imagine what would happen to Canada's economy if we weren't exploiting our resources.. not sure if you folks realize this, but the massive migration of jobs out of North America is only going to get worse, we simply cannot compete with the low cost of manufacturing, design, technology, etc of the up and coming developing nations around the world. This a resource based economy, and Canadian corporations simply do not have the capital to develop the oilsands, to call oilsands development "capitally intensive" would be an understatement.

I know BC liberals don't care about the oilsands like us people who are directly employred in the sector, but I think you fail to realize how indirectly affected everyone in Canada is.

[m!chael]

.

[penner2k]

Lol at the stupidity in this thread. Honestly, there has been so many threads on this forums over the last couple years about Harper, Pipelines, and the Oilsands that I can't even be bothered to chime in anymore.

Nexen is a lemon, it's the failure of the oilsands, to be honest, I'm surprised the Chinese were stupid enough to buy it. Operating for 5 years and they are yet to reach and maintain even 50% of the original target production... and this is after billions more were invested to increase production. There is something about the formation which is just not receptive to SAGD, it's essentially the worst parcel of Oilsands land there is. Nexen is certainly not a huge portion of our natural resources..

Long Lake: 35,000BBL/day (This is the highest level of production they have attained, from 2008-2012 the avg production has been roughly 22,000BBL/day.)
Canada Production: 4,100,000BBL/day.

(Some tough math right there, less than 1% of daily production, and in couple years it will be less than half a percent due to some major projects coming online)

Oh and for the record, foreign workers have been at Long Lake since 2005, involved in both construction and operations. Right now, today, there are still foreign devils on that site stealing Canadian jobs!... and guess what, Canadian people made the decision to bring them here... not CNOOC or the Chinese Govt.

Maybe we should stop letting Chinese people immigrate to Canada? If we don't allow foreign investment I don't see why we let foreigners in either, they might have the same motives as the evil Chinese empire... (For &#&# sakes...)

Pipeline(s) will be approved, would you prefer they ship the oil by train???

Sigh, it's okay to have an opinion on anything, but at least try and have an educated one.

I can't imagine what would happen to Canada's economy if we weren't exploiting our resources.. not sure if you folks realize this, but the massive migration of jobs out of North America is only going to get worse, we simply cannot compete with the low cost of manufacturing, design, technology, etc of the up and coming developing nations around the world. This a resource based economy, and Canadian corporations simply do not have the capital to develop the oilsands, to call oilsands development "capitally intensive" would be an understatement.

I know BC liberals don't care about the oilsands like us people who are directly employred in the sector, but I think you fail to realize how indirectly affected everyone in Canada is.

lol @ 35k barrels per day...
That is less then one Suncor pad and that only takes us a year to build..

also btw if people want to buy gas from a Canadian company then buy from Petro Canada. Suncor (owner of Petro Canada) has the highest percentage of Canadian ownership out of all the oil companies.

[jasonturbo]

lol @ 35k barrels per day...
That is less then one Suncor pad and that only takes us a year to build..


Yes, Firebag kills it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Lol at the stupidity in this thread. Honestly, there has been so many threads on this forums over the last couple years about Harper, Pipelines, and the Oilsands that I can't even be bothered to chime in anymore.

Nexen is a lemon, it's the failure of the oilsands, to be honest, I'm surprised the Chinese were stupid enough to buy it. Operating for 5 years and they are yet to reach and maintain even 50% of the original target production... and this is after billions more were invested to increase production. There is something about the formation which is just not receptive to SAGD, it's essentially the worst parcel of Oilsands land there is. Nexen is certainly not a huge portion of our natural resources..

Long Lake: 35,000BBL/day (This is the highest level of production they have attained, from 2008-2012 the avg production has been roughly 22,000BBL/day.)
Canada Production: 4,100,000BBL/day.

(Some tough math right there, less than 1% of daily production, and in couple years it will be less than half a percent due to some major projects coming online)

Oh and for the record, foreign workers have been at Long Lake since 2005, involved in both construction and operations. Right now, today, there are still foreign devils on that site stealing Canadian jobs!... and guess what, Canadian people made the decision to bring them here... not CNOOC or the Chinese Govt.

Maybe we should stop letting Chinese people immigrate to Canada? If we don't allow foreign investment I don't see why we let foreigners in either, they might have the same motives as the evil Chinese empire... (For &#&# sakes...)

Pipeline(s) will be approved, would you prefer they ship the oil by train???

Sigh, it's okay to have an opinion on anything, but at least try and have an educated one.

I can't imagine what would happen to Canada's economy if we weren't exploiting our resources.. not sure if you folks realize this, but the massive migration of jobs out of North America is only going to get worse, we simply cannot compete with the low cost of manufacturing, design, technology, etc of the up and coming developing nations around the world. This a resource based economy, and Canadian corporations simply do not have the capital to develop the oilsands, to call oilsands development "capitally intensive" would be an understatement.

I know BC liberals don't care about the oilsands like us people who are directly employred in the sector, but I think you fail to realize how indirectly affected everyone in Canada is.

Yes and soon we will see Kids pooping in malls and leaving brown surprise everywhere, buying carts and carts of goods and sending it back to china, having people spit on the streets or even inside a store, putting $200 on the passenger's seat while taking a driving test for the testing instructor to see........

[MoBettah]

Yes and soon we will see Kids pooping in malls and leaving brown surprise everywhere, buying carts and carts of goods and sending it back to china, having people spit on the streets or even inside a store, putting $200 on the passenger's seat while taking a driving test for the testing instructor to see........

Pathetic.

First you ignore every point he made, then sidestep the entire issue with sweeping hate and racism.

[shenmecar]

This is like Risk, China is gonna dominate the world!

[Mr.HappySilp]

Pathetic.

First you ignore every point he made, then sidestep the entire issue with sweeping hate and racism.

I am a Chinese and all the things I mentions is 100% and haven been discuss here on RS as well. What's next? take over BC Hydro, Telus, CTV, why not start selling our cities. It always start with something something small.

Do you honestly think it will stop here? Do you honestly think there won't be anymore take overs from China gov run operational? This is just the 1st step. Take what you can get your hands on and slowly take over other natural rescourse such as our hydro. Also this take over is by a company who have Chinese's gov backing them. Do you really think their intentions is to help Canadian and create jobs? No their intentions is to benfit their own.

Do you honestly believe Harper will keep his words? I don't any natural rescourse from Canada should not be own by another Company who is own, operate and have strong gov influence from another country (such as this case). If the Chinese Gov isn't behind China National Offshore Oil Co I am sure most people will be ok.

[GLOW]

having people spit on the streets or even inside a store

nothing new with that. just go to a bubble tea store and look for a bunch of teens in north face jackets in a circle blocking the front entrance smoking

:troll:

[Akinari]

Yes and soon we will see Kids pooping in malls and leaving brown surprise everywhere, buying carts and carts of goods and sending it back to china, having people spit on the streets or even inside a store, putting $200 on the passenger's seat while taking a driving test for the testing instructor to see........
I swear that's already happening

[jasonturbo]

Do you really think their intentions is to help Canadian and create jobs? No their intentions is to benfit their own.

Do you honestly believe Harper will keep his words? I don't any natural rescourse from Canada should not be own by another Company who is own, operate and have strong gov influence from another country (such as this case).

Their intention is to secure some natural resources, the people of China need oil just like the people in Canada. People assume they have some hidden agenda to replace all the Canadian workers... well I trust you are aware that the Feds would still need to approve each and every single work Visa that would be issued... and the legal fallout that would result from terminating long term employees to replace them with Chinese Nationals would be a media frenzy for the ages.

Nexen's assets are diversified and include the UK's North Sea, Offshore West Africa, and the Gulf, with the majority of Nexen's income coming from the UK. Long Lake has been a nightmare for share holders, terrible ROI... if you think any reasonable person would pay 15 Billion for 30,000BBL/day you are nuts, this was not a bid to secure a chunk of Canadian Oilsands land, it was a bid to secure a diversified mid tier oil producer.

The Chinese do not have some "secret plan", they are doing what's best for them - Just like any private or public company would do... I don't recall a CNOOC press release where they said the reason for this purchase is to create jobs for Canadians. If Nexen wasn't doing "what's best for them" they wouldn't be selling the company.

All your comments have done is make me cancel my plane ticket to China...

[ScizzMoney]

I actually work at Nexen in Fort Mac. What Jasonturbo is saying about Long Lake is true. It's a lemon of an oil sands site. The amount of problems here that can't be easily fixed is staggering.

[StylinRed]

The reasoning that "aw who cares these are small companies" is a silly one imo; the fact that a foreign state (not company, state) owns our companies now and that even CSIS is against it, should be concerning

to say that "oh they're not going to load us with foreign workers and municipal govts will put a stop to hanky panky" is a naive one, as evidence shows otherwise and even the govt. is concerned with that hence they gave a "warning" that they'll have their eye on them (think its noted in the financial post article i linked or cbc)

[jasonturbo]

The reasoning that "aw who cares these are small companies" is a silly one imo; the fact that a foreign state (not company, state) owns our companies now and that even CSIS is against it, should be concerning

to say that "oh they're not going to load us with foreign workers and municipal govts will put a stop to hanky panky" is a naive one, as evidence shows otherwise and even the govt. is concerned with that hence they gave a "warning" that they'll have their eye on them (think its noted in the financial post article i linked or cbc)

Can you just explain what the issue is with a foreign state owned company purchasing a publicly traded Canadian company? How would it be any different than a private foreign company making the purchase? (In terms of how it would affect Canadians)

I'm just looking for a list of concerns.

Keep in mind the foreign worker issue is not valid IMO, as there is already many foreign workers in Canada, especially in the Oilsands, both local and foreign private company's are sending them here.

[StylinRed]

Can you just explain what the issue is with a foreign state owned company purchasing a publicly traded Canadian company? How would it be any different than a private foreign company making the purchase? (In terms of how it would affect Canadians)

I'm just looking for a list of concerns.

my main dislike of this is we gave up state control in our oil years ago which i felt was ridiculous imo the govt. and citizenry would benefit/profit more with these resources outside of corporate hands but that's where the country decided to move and now here we are basically giving control to a foreign state which i can only see being the beginning of further encroachment (regardless of what harper claims) which will ends up allowing a foreign state have a say in future laws etc, through lobbying in the guise of a corporation which has more sway as they're inside (something the govt/csis noted but ignored by harper)


Keep in mind the foreign worker issue is not valid IMO, as there is already many foreign workers in Canada, especially in the Oilsands, both local and foreign private company's are sending them here.

oh i dont consider this a major irk/concern but an irk just the same which simply adds to the problem

[jasonturbo]

my main dislike of this is we gave up state control in our oil years ago which i felt was ridiculous imo the govt. and citizenry would benefit/profit more with these resources outside of corporate hands but that's where the country decided to move and now here we are basically giving control to a foreign state which i can only see being the beginning of further encroachment (regardless of what harper claims) which will ends up allowing a foreign state have a say in future laws etc, through lobbying in the guise of a corporation which has more sway as they're inside (something the govt/csis noted but ignored by harper)

oh i dont consider this a major irk/concern but an irk just the same which simply adds to the problem

When did Canada ever have state control of oil or any resource for that matter?

I'm not very positive on crown corporations, I feel there is too much red-tape and bureaucracy in anything our Fed Govt touches... it would simply create Govt. jobs and likely result in a net benefit to those employees more than anything... I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow managed to run these oil producing assets at a loss. That's IMO anyway, I deal with the Fed Govt a lot on regulatory issues and I am constantly blown away with how slow and useless they are with everything they touch, in fact, after another couple years of working for private companies I plan to jump over to the regulatory side (NEB). Why? Cause it's a gravy train followed by a comfy retirement.

My stance is this, I am all for the gov. allowing foreign investment in the oilsands, it would be beneficial for Canada in the short term. The Feds have a lot of stroke and a lot of time to impose royalties and tarrifs that would ensure these foreign investments are of "net benefit" to Canadians in the long term. Once the investment is here, it is not very likely anyone will "pull out" due to an increase in royalties or tarrifs.. heck I might even vote NDP in a decade hahaha.

Either way, speculation is just that, speculative, only time will tell.

[StylinRed]

When did Canada ever have state control of oil or any resource for that matter?

sorry should rephrase that simply meant crown ownership or part-owner

of course there's a lot of red-tape/bureaucracy in a crown corp but those issues could be rectified


to your last point, certainly its speculative but imo its too much of a risk especially when its china on the other end

[jasonturbo]

sorry should rephrase that simply meant crown ownership or part-owner

of course there's a lot of red-tape/bureaucracy in a crown corp but those issues could be rectified


to your last point, certainly its speculative but imo its too much of a risk especially when its china on the other end

I'm still not sure I understand the risks? You're basically just saying the main risk would be Chinese influence over Canadian affairs?

Well then I must ask, why be concerned with Chinese influence on Canadian affairs.. in comparison to how say the influence of Private Companies on Canadian affairs, I doubt their intentions are any more noble than those of the Chinese.

Sounds to me like a fairly weak and speculative argument... not trying to be a dink, just not sure I understand why it's such a concern.

[Lomac]

While companies that are privately owned usually share the same over all goals as those that are Crown owned, the problem with a company owned by a government means that there's the potential for policy sway. Sure, Nexen is a small player in the grand scheme of things and, as such, their ability to lobby for changes is relatively small. However, what happens if a much larger corporation in any field (forestry, oil, hell... even film) becomes state owned? They'll have a large amount of money to use for lobbying and can potentially change things through politicians that don't realize what they're doing.

I'll add more when I'm not as busy at work... :lol

[MoBettah]

While companies that are privately owned usually share the same over all goals as those that are Crown owned, the problem with a company owned by a government means that there's the potential for policy sway. Sure, Nexen is a small player in the grand scheme of things and, as such, their ability to lobby for changes is relatively small. However, what happens if a much larger corporation in any field (forestry, oil, hell... even film) becomes state owned? They'll have a large amount of money to use for lobbying and can potentially change things through politicians that don't realize what they're doing.

I'll add more when I'm not as busy at work... :lol

Ok, let me get this straight.

You think that private ( I think you mean publicly share holder owned ) companies have the same goals as those that are government owned?

You also think that "private" (again, I think you mean public) companies have "relatively small" abilities to lobby for changes?

And finally you think that a foreign state owned Canadian company will have influence over clueless politicians because they have more money?

[jasonturbo]

While companies that are privately owned usually share the same over all goals as those that are Crown owned

I assume you didn't have a straight face when you made that comment.

- Crown, for the good of the nation.
- Private, for the good of the shareholders.


The problem with a company owned by a government means that there's the potential for policy sway.

Are you suggesting that lobbyists don't exist until a foreign state owned company gets involved? I can assure you that all lobbyists (Domestic and foreign) have the same goal, their own interests, regardless of where they came from there has probably never been a single lobbyist who was looking to sway policy for the benefit of a nations people.


Sure, Nexen is a small player in the grand scheme of things and, as such, their ability to lobby for changes is relatively small. However, what happens if a much larger corporation in any field (forestry, oil, hell... even film) becomes state owned?

They don't need to own a local company in order to lobby, yes as they control more local assets maybe they will gain some leverage, but you have to admit, at this rate, we are decades away from that being a valid concern. There is nothing suggesting that China is even trying to buy any major Canadian assets, nor is there any reason to believe the Feds would allow it, or allow it without a long list of exceptions.


They'll have a large amount of money to use for lobbying and can potentially change things through politicians that don't realize what they're doing.

They already have a large amount of money to use for lobbying, and certainly don't need local assets in order to begin lobbying for anything - though as stated above, it does provide some leverage if they own significant assets.


I have nothing against people raising concerns, but there certainly isn't enough reason for concern at this time to validate the attitude of "China owns Alberta"... Perhaps that was satyrical, though some of the posts in this thread would suggest there are people on this forum who are against the idea of foreign investment (Especially from the Chinese) and would have you believe that we have essentially been taken over by communists.

This is a significant purchase in the sense that it will act as a bit of a pilot, something we may be able to use to fine tune our policies with respect to foreign investment.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Ok, let me get this straight.

You think that private ( I think you mean publicly share holder owned ) companies have the same goals as those that are government owned?

You also think that "private" (again, I think you mean public) companies have "relatively small" abilities to lobby for changes?

And finally you think that a foreign state owned Canadian company will have influence over clueless politicians because they have more money?

Is not that they have more money is the fact that you are dealing from gov to gov with compicate things such as forgein trade policy. When it is a public own company you don't have to deal with as much.

Example China decides to stop importing lumber from Canada becasue we don't allow them to expand the oil sand. Becasue the Chinese gov have way more power and leverage than a public own company.

[StylinRed]

Well then I must ask, why be concerned with Chinese influence on Canadian affairs.. in comparison to how say the influence of Private Companies on Canadian affairs, I doubt their intentions are any more noble than those of the Chinese.


their concerns are drastically different one is for profit the other can be any range of issues; from human rights concerns to refugee issues...

we've already seen Canada give up political refugees to china just to start the ball rolling on signing deals and this was done from the outside but now having a state owned company basically puts chinas foot in the door to influence domestic issues as well as foreign and with greater sway

its not as weak and speculative as you think when we already have evidence of it happening here and abroad (africa)

you could say its no different for china to manipulate/sway from the outside than it is from the inside but i disagree

hell even our spy agency disagrees CSIS warns of foreign takeover risks in annual report - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/09/20/csis-foreign-takeover-dangers-nexen.html)

[jasonturbo]

Is not that they have more money is the fact that you are dealing from gov to gov with compicate things such as forgein trade policy. When it is a public own company you don't have to deal with as much.

Example China decides to stop importing lumber from Canada becasue we don't allow them to expand the oil sand. Becasue the Chinese gov have way more power and leverage than a public own company.

The whole point of allowing this transaction is to expand the the oilsands lol.

What was stopping China from imposing a ban on Canadian lumber weeks ago to put pressure on the Feds to ensure the Nexen deal would be approved?

"I wonder what other hypothetical situations I can conjure up..."

On an interesting side note,

When companies located in China ship finished goods to Canada, they don't want to pay to ship empty seacans back to China... so they fill them with NBSKP and lumber for the trip home. This is what makes the Canada/China lumber trade work so well, it's an economic solution that fits nicely with the bullshit trade deficit we have imposed on ourselves.


their concerns are drastically different one is for profit the other can be any range of issues; from human rights concerns to refugee issues...

we've already seen Canada give up political refugees to china just to start the ball rolling on signing deals and this was done from the outside but now having a state owned company basically puts chinas foot in the door to influence domestic issues even further, with greater sway

its not as weak and speculative as you think when we already have evidence of it happening here and abroad (africa)

you could say its no different for china to manipulate/sway from the outside than it is from the inside but i disagree

hell even our spy agency disagrees CSIS warns of foreign takeover risks in annual report - Politics - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/09/20/csis-foreign-takeover-dangers-nexen.html)

Well the concern raised by everyone was whether or not this transaction would be "of net benefit" to Canadians.

I'm sorry but IMO, giving up refugee's is not a domestic issue, and I fail to see how taking in refugee's is of "net benefit" to Canadians.

[Mr.HappySilp]

The whole point of allowing this transaction is to expand the the oilsands lol.

What was stopping China from imposing a ban on Canadian lumber weeks ago to put pressure on the Feds to ensure the Nexen deal would be approved?

"I wonder what other hypothetical situations I can conjure up..."

On an interesting side note,



As said earlier it is an example. There can other other issue since we are not dealing with the Chiense Gov instead of "just a public company" A whole gov have a lot more leverage than a publice compnay and easier to pressure or make the Canadian gov bend over.

[StylinRed]

I'm sorry but IMO, giving up refugee's is not a domestic issue, and I fail to see how taking in refugee's is of "net benefit" to Canadians.

it's not, it was an example of how it's not inconceivable for us to be influenced by business and how we already have (my wording was poor as these are written in passing revised it somewhat)