[Ulic Qel-Droma]

If you guys want to talk about it, I would recommend opening a new thread in the support forum.


well, since you guys asked me to do it... here it is.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/680177-missing-vancouver-woman-sought-los-angeles-3.html#post8159913

What he said wasn't nice. and his history doesn't show any bad behaviour (regardless whether he "contributed" or not... contribution is subjective).

As much as people didnt like what he said, more people disagree that he was banned.

You must realise, whatever he said, wouldn't of been more than a quick thought in many of our minds as well... Just he was the first to write it.

No one thinks what he said was "against RS law" or whatever. If he gets banned, that sets a precedent that any of us could be banned for writing our thoughts down (Thoughts that could be right, I mean, what he said could very well be true, and I wouldn't even call it as something far off).

for those of you that already have a pre subjective train of thought because the post was started by me... no i'm not trying to start shit (take note: I never do).


What I don't get is why that guy in the local girl missing in LA thread got banned and Hondaracer got banned for basically just stating their view/opinions that maybe a mod didn't like, seems touch sensitive no?

[Matlock]

I do agree that BMW M5's banning was harsh. I don't know him or her, but I was surprised that they were banned for just that. Maybe a warning would have sufficed?

People should be entitled to their own opinion on things regardless of how cynical they may be.

I don't believe that what he said was derogatory for the fact that his statements are a possibility. I would never want such things to happen to anyone, but these things do sadly happen.

We may think the worst, but that doesn't mean we don't hope for the best.

[MindBomber]

I agree, the post does not appear to violate any rules.

I'm not clear why it would lead to a ban, its a completely reasonable thesis on potential outcomes. It's the outcome I expect.

I also saw this ban, and I'm unclear to its reasons.

It says spam, but the person has a series of normal, albeit stupid, prior posts.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/679120-valentines-2013-a-4.html#post8153957

[2 n r]

Some mods on rs need to have their shit revoked. I see too much power power tripping and the like. Leads me to believe these people have the emotional IQ of a 5 year old.
Ya, people say stupid shit on the internet but it's THE internet, it's expected, get over it.
If you don't like what someone says, fail them, tell them how and why they're dumb, don't ban them.
The trolls and idiots provide value in that it can be entertaining.
Members make this board, mods ruin it.
When I first joined rs, rules were lax and it was so much more fun. Bring it back!
Posted via RS Mobile

[Graeme S]

Ah, the joys of moderating an interwebs forum.


Yes, I admit I've been a bit quicker on the draw with the banhammer lately. The two that Ulic brings up are both bans of mine. And while it is true that those bans may seem unwarranted and overly harsh, I felt they were appropriate at the time.

One of the difficulties of moderating a board such as this is finding a balance between speech which is conducive to further discussion and posting, and speech which is inflammatory and just boils down to everyone screaming and threads being locked. One of the things that is challenging is in finding a way to make sure that threads don't get derailed (such as the Porsche build thread--I'll touch on that a bit later), while still maintaining some semblance of variety. Threads are boring if there's no discussion.

When I make a decision about who to ban or what kind of punitive actions to take, it's not that often that I will take action immediately. In the case of HR's ban, it was several posts over several days in some threads which I felt were in extremely poor taste. I know he's been around for a long time, and his ban is not a permanent one. He contributes a great deal on RS, and being a former mod is undoubtedly still lurking on an account which he had as a backup. When it comes to BMWM5, that one I did do almost immediately. I looked at the post, the comments and discussion that were happening around it, and then into his user history, his join date, and a variety of other things. Then I banned him.

There is no hard and fast rule when it comes to moderating sites like this one. One of the biggest problems with rules is that as soon as you say "This is the rule for what you can and cannot do", then people will look for ways to break the spirit and keep to the word. Yes, mods can be excessive. Yes, mods can go over the top. Yes, we need to keep ourselves in check. I'm glad Ulic started this thread. Full disclosure: Ulic and I have contact off RS, and very often agree in principle in many things. Funnily enough, we actually agree on this topic: checks and balances. It just so happens we're on opposite sides of the line this time.

Now, about the other issues.
Mindbomber: Users like that show up periodically at times just before hallowe'en and Valentine's. Usually accounts like that can be traced back to IPs which have other registered users. People will start new accounts, make some sparse posts in order to make themselves blend in, and then post their business/service/what-have-you. While I'm not responsible for that one, it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case. This person registered in February and *gasp* ended up posting inanities just in time to be ready to sell stuff on Valentine's.

The Porsche tuning thread: I was not involved in the deletion of the first one, I was involved in the cleanup of the fallout from that, however. Not fun. My understanding is thus:
1) A person who is associated with a shop posted a single picture of a porsche and a link to a build thread elsewhere
2) The thread got a bit of discussion
3) The thread was deleted
4) People interested in the thread and/or the OP were like "WTF where did the thread go?"
5) A new thread was created with more pictures, a detailed story, and more information
6) That thread went all to hell in a handbasket because of thread one.

I don't work in the car industry anymore. I don't know who works for what shops and where. This is simply what I was given to understand, and it's entirely possible that it's wrong. However. My rule of thumb has always been thus: "If it's a teaser, that's not okay because it's leading people away from RS. If it's original content with a link to the source, that's fine because it encourages discussion and more posting here".

Now, as I said. This is my rule of thumb. It's difficult to have hard and fast rules in situations like this. Different people have different knowledge and experience. Some people know users and don't know others. Some people are friends offline and will say "that's just how he talks" or "he didn't mean anything by it" and so on and so forth. That's great. I don't know that. I don't know you. I only know what's here on RS.

And it's my job to try and keep things clean.


TL;DR: I banned HR and M5, I try to find a balance but yes I've been banhammerhappy recently. Threads like this are good for helping you guys to understand my rationales and also for you guys to tell me why I'm an asshole.

[Excelsis]

they call you "VAC AssMod" for a reason lol

bmw m5's post don't see how that should be ban, HR.. whatever almost all of his posts are derogatory

[Gridlock]

Well, there can certainly be some confusion for people when this:

RULES & GUIDELINES. Approx read time = less than 3 mins.




Rule 1: Post on topic! (and in the right section)

Revscene is a diverse place. Car discussion, entertainment, sports, music, health advice, classifieds, current events, everything!
Every topic you can think of has a place to be posted. Please use the right forum when posting a new thread.

Posting a thread in the wrong place "because more people will see it here" is unacceptable.

Keep your post on topic with the thread - nobody wants to see the picture of the bunny with a pancake on his head.


Rule 2: All posts that may be offensive MUST HAVE a warning in the title.

This includes porn, and anything else people may find offensive or inappropriate to view at work.

Use something like *NSFW* or *warning*.


Rule 3: Absolutely NO spam

Linking to affiliate referrals, promoting your product or event, soliciting members, or trying to drive volume somewhere to benefit yourself is prohibited. These types of posts are considered SPAM and the complaints we received are taken seriously.

If you are Interested in advertising with REVSCENE - you can contact us through Advertisement@revscene.net


Rule 4: Junk Posts

Deliberately stupid and useless posts, general jackassery, Rickrolls and R-E-P-O-S-T are not tolerated. The aim is to make your post contribute to the thread.


Rule 5: Tolerance/Flaming

The use of personal attacks and racial slurs are not tolerated. If you feel you are the victim of uncalled for or inappropriate behaviour, or come across a deconstructive post, please us the report post button (small yield sign logo) and a moderator will address the situation. If you feel the need to call someone out, or personally attack another member, take it to Fight Club. Zero tolerance for personal attacks in the general forums. Ignore this, and you WILL get a point salad fed to you up the wrong opening.


Rule 6: Fail Button Abuse

The thanks/fail system is there for your usage, abuse it and you will lose it. We take complaints of Fail stalking ie. following another member around and failing their posts for the sake of it seriously; not only is it a nuisance, it also undermines the system. NOTE: you must have a minimum of 100 posts for your fail button to become enabled!


Rule 7: Post Whoring

Useless post whoring is a gigantic annoyance to everyone and is not tolerated. No need to define this any further.


Rule 7: No links to torrent sites

We ask that you DO NOT post up links to download of any copy written material - episodes of any tv show/movie etc.

Thank you.

IF YOU ARE EVER IN DOUBT OR HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, ASK A MOD. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE, AND WHAT THEY PAY US THE BIG BUCKS FOR!

Each sub-forum may have their own specific rules and guidelines that may expand from this list, so if you are new please take a moment to review the stickys (they will always be at the top section of the forum)! A couple minutes can save you 15%, and your account from getting banned!

is the content of the rules.

It still shows that NSFW content can be posted with a NSFW tag. Nothing about no swearing in titles.

Sooo...I could put a thread in OT of "Come Look at these bouncing fucking titties-NSFW" and be fine.

But a member was banned(temp) for posting NSFW content in the main forums.

There is nothing in the rules regarding a racial policy or a cyber-stalking policy and I believe that both are drastically required. When is sarcasm ok, and when does it go too far? Somewhere it should be written.

I really don't appreciate seeing threats against people on the site. It doesn't give me a "for the members, by the members" feeling-which is what revscene is. Yeah, its privately owned. Yahoo! Try getting sponsors when you don't have members. There are so many private alliances between mods who pretend to be neutral, that aren't. I get private messages off revscene how I've said something to offend a member, that just happens to be friends with a different mod. Give me a break.

BUT. In regards to the Porsche build thread, I found it rude when the administration of this board goes off on people(all nicely cleaned out of said thread) about protecting sponsors(which I agree is important) but basically "when you people do something to contribute, you get to say something".

No one here does NOT value the work that people do to get money and keep the site running, but no one has ever asked what members can do to self-support the site. Whenever the topic is brought up, its hushed like someone is asking for the nuclear codes. There are tons of things that can be done to support the site from the people that USE the site, making it self-sufficient, without going user-pay. But I read that whole thing as "you don't work on sponsors, so you don't know, but no one is offered a single chance to work on money, so you'll never know. So basically, shut up. " I know I felt valued as a member.

None of this is revscene specific, its forums in general. Too many mods, its over-modded. Not enough, and its a free for all.

I think all people want is an open dialogue, and a more open membership.

Someone mentioned that there is a file on everyone where shit gets logged. Can't that be made public when a person is banned? Sample dialogue: "Shit guys, you want to know why this guy is gone? Here you go. He's a racist prick, we warned him 3 times. We nuked him"

No one is asking to be involved in every monotonous detail, but opening things up clears the air, and kills a lot of debate before it starts.

TL;DR: this isn't the nixon white house.

[Gridlock]

Oh, and please stop closing threads all over the place just because 'A' mod deems the conversation to be over.

[bcrdukes]

You gunna get banned, Gridlock.

[Gridlock]

You gunna get banned, Gridlock.

Irony: getting banned unfairly in a thread about unfair bans. :)

Honestly, if no one wants my opinion-delete it. No harm, no foul. I certainly don't want to start 'a thing'.

[dinosaur]

why can't we just let the people who were banned do their own propaganda to the mods. why is it that whenever some has been banned lately there is a flock of white knights attempting to sway the mods?

who cares....this shit is annoying to read in all the OT threads.

[rb]

BUT. In regards to the Porsche build thread, I found it rude when the administration of this board goes off on people(all nicely cleaned out of said thread) about protecting sponsors(which I agree is important) but basically "when you people do something to contribute, you get to say something".



I found it rude that the OP tried to post that thread when he knows better (which he's admitted to) as well as his affilation with the shop. He's benefitted from RS and for him to try that really struck a nerve.

I also found it rude that some of the members in that thread were trying to start shit b/c they something personal against RS. I'm not going to name who or why but I'm honestly done talking about that thread.

C'mon grid, you know whats its like and how easy it is to lose your cool on here. Difference being that with my position, i have to hold back from what I want to say most of the time. I admit I lost my cool with that thread and I apologized for it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Well, there can certainly be some confusion for people when this:



is the content of the rules.

Good point, the rules page needs to be updated.

[Gridlock]

Nice edit. I read the 'before' version. If I'm such a problem, and a pain in people's sides, then I should go back and read all the official messages I've received about my actions. It will be easy. There are zero.

Given what happened, I would like to think that people might not appreciate what I did, but at least understand it. It's easy to talk generalities until your family is on display(I am being intentionally vague here as to not draw new attention to an old item)-then, you might be willing to offend a few people slightly with the larger goal of finding who did it. It was a singular pm...not the end of the world.

Honestly, I wasn't actually talking about you in the build thread. I support the idea that linking it back to a shop was wrong. You are right. It was spam, pure and simple. What I'm talking about is some of the other things that were written in the thread, that were deleted. My opinion, on reading it, was not a professional duty to eliminate spam. It was rude. But that is only my opinion. And you are also right...it's water under the bridge. :)

Anyhoo...on a lighter note, I do think there are some good points in my suggestions that might go along way to maintaining operational privacy, while at the same time clearing some of these issues off the main boards.

[radioman]

Create a thread and post when someone is banned;

[USERNAME] was just banned for [DURATION] by [MOD NAME].

That account was created on [DATE] and had [# of fails/thanks/post whatever you seem fit]

Reason: [STUFF]

Just my 2 cents.

[dinosaur]

TBH, I don't think it is any of our business why some users get banned.

I am sure there are a lot of private issues that happen behind the scenes that should not be discussed in an open forum.

Announcing user bans opens it up for discussion...which, as I am sure we can all agree, craps up threads. If the banned user has an issue, there are ways to contact the mods\admin to inquire why and petition to be unbanned.

[Spidey]

so ulic is mad because his bf got banned?

[Lomac]

I wrote that VOT rule thread maaaaaaany years ago before a bunch of the new rules were implemented (which, unless you're a relatively new member, you all should now be familiar with.) That said, it looks like someone forgot to update that thread since I switched over to looking after the Tech Forums. We'll make sure that it gets fixed asap.

As for banning members, as has been stated by others here, there is usually a longer process behind doing it. Unless it's obvious spam (BUY OUR CHEAP PHONES!! WE HAVE BEST SELECTION IN ALL OF TAIWAN!), we look into a member's previous history, how long they've been here, their overall contributions to the forums, etc. It's almost never done on a whim. Ulic, you mentioned that you went through a member's post history and couldn't find anything. That may be true that you didn't see anything, but threads and posts that we delete, edit, or move out of the public's eyes can only be seen by those running the website. While you may not see anything wrong, we can take a quick look and check out various flagged posts that may sway our decision.

One other thing to remember is that even if a member was banned for a post, it wasn't necessarily because of that post. Our warning system auto bans members temporarily if they given points x-amount of times (I believe it's 5 separate instances), so even if a particular post was worthy of points but not bad enough to be banned for it, they may still have hit that threshold... pushing them over the edge until they're reinstated in a week.

[EmperorIS]

When you guys say contribution.... to what extent is considered a worthy contribution? Just posting on average and fueling conversation considered contribution? or something like a coupon to benefit the community?

[Lomac]

Quality posts, basically. Doesn't matter if they're two sentences or two paragraphs, really.

[AzNightmare]

Maybe a bit off-topic, but if someone were to suddenly get banned? Is there a way to contact a mod to try and explain or get the account back?


On that note, I have to admit I'm slightly jealous that so many people even cares about a guy that had an account for slightly over a year, with 171 posts with a pretty bad thanks/fail ratio.

Unless it's a 2nd account or you guys knew him personally...

[RFlush]

What needs to be discussed is the censored content in discussions due to sponsors. Yes, I understand that sponsors help pay for the site, but they sponsor because they see enough members to make it deem fit. The members help the site just as much as the sponsors but if we can't even discuss topics because of sponsors, what can we discuss?

This is like Boom 2001 all over again!

Soon half the posts will look like this:

So I went to ****** and got ***** done. Purchased ****** and thought ****** did a good job.


Might as well just censor half the words since it can either affect a sponsor or be a derogatory term.

[Gridlock]

What needs to be discussed is the censored content in discussions due to sponsors. Yes, I understand that sponsors help pay for the site, but they sponsor because they see enough members to make it deem fit. The members help the site just as much as the sponsors but if we can't even discuss topics because of sponsors, what can we discuss?

This is like Boom 2001 all over again!

Soon half the posts will look like this:

So I went to ****** and got ***** done. Purchased ****** and thought ****** did a good job.


Might as well just censor half the words since it can either affect a sponsor or be a derogatory term.

Honestly, I have NEVER seen that.

And I think everyone needs to understand there is a difference between "where can I get my brakes done?" and "come and do your brakes here...at this shop...say you're with rs and get 10% off...we're on this road. Here's our facebook."

[Graeme S]

Grid, you bring up a lot of awesome points. Your feedback is appreciated her.

1) Rules: yes, you're right. They need to get updated badly. That'll be happening once I'm done this (Thanks for the rewrite, Lomac) and your feedback on the updated ones would be appreciated

2) Logging: One of the great and terrible things about logs is that it requires (essentially) omnipotence. One user proved to be quite a headache when he got points for bumping threads and then went on a stream reporting EVERY SINGLE THREAD in the buysell that had been bumped by someone other than the OP. This resulted in a flood of nearly a hundred emails for the buy/sell mods to go through. Why? Because he thought it was unfair that he had been punished when others hadn't. This is one reason why we don't include a 'fails' notification along with a 'thanks' notification. If we put up everything in all the logs that people have been punished for, it just creates more opportunity for drama. As much as I would love to be fully transparent on this kind of issue...it's a challenge. It's a lot easier to get e-butthurt than real-life butthurt, and while a real-life butthurt incident ends up in an argument and/or the end of a friendship....it can be the creation of a horrible type of troll that takes a frakton of time and energy to deal with.

3) Thread closing: We (I) try to close threads when they're being derailed or have descended to the point of arguing about things that aren't productive. Can you give some examples of threads that you think shouldn't've been closed? Other points of view are always good--more content is more clicks, and if there's the opportunity for more discussion, I'm all for it.

4) 'take it or leave it' mentality: I'm personally not a fan of that. You'll notice that even though I'm being directly criticized (and it's not just here--some other mods are not fans of my decisions, and I respect that and am glad that I'm getting the opportunity to hear feedback from others. It's an opportunity I don't often get, since...well, it's the interwebs) I'm trying to keep an open dialogue and not shut anyone down. Ain't nobody gonna get banned for raising reasonable points, especially in this forum. People will get points and banned for continually derailing threads bringing up topics like this. Yet another reason I'm glad this thread exists. And yes, I realize the irony of me not being in favour of take-it-or-leave-it and being banhappy. Cognitive Dissonance at its finest.


Radioman: As I said to grid before, it's more opportunities for drama. I don't want to say "We don't have to tell you", but when people ask why others were banned, mods will generally give a reason. If, however, we make new threads for each banning...it'll bring up more opportunities for chaos.

Emperor: Lomac has it. Keeping the discussion going, posting more than just "LOL" or "you go girl" and all that jazz.

AzN: generally, people have friends on RS who will PM mods or make a thread here and ask. We've also had some people sign up on new accounts and PM asking to have their accounts back and what have you.

RFlush: I think you'll notice that hasn't been happening lately. Much of the issues with that was that some companies were approached for advertising opportunities, turned it down, and then would post from an account from their IP address talking about the great services; or they'd ask their customers to post on RS to say what a good job they did or what have you. It was the equivalent of getting on the skytrain with a book of 9 bus tickets, and then when you get checked saying "oh shit, I know I had it somewhere..." Fortunately, things in that regard have calmed down for the most part. But as I've said before, it's difficult and a fine line.


-edit-
rules updated to indicate no NWS at all; any other suggestions for rules?

[Gridlock]

Grid, you bring up a lot of awesome points. Your feedback is appreciated her.

1) Rules: yes, you're right. They need to get updated badly. That'll be happening once I'm done this (Thanks for the rewrite, Lomac) and your feedback on the updated ones would be appreciated

2) Logging: One of the great and terrible things about logs is that it requires (essentially) omnipotence. One user proved to be quite a headache when he got points for bumping threads and then went on a stream reporting EVERY SINGLE THREAD in the buysell that had been bumped by someone other than the OP. This resulted in a flood of nearly a hundred emails for the buy/sell mods to go through. Why? Because he thought it was unfair that he had been punished when others hadn't. This is one reason why we don't include a 'fails' notification along with a 'thanks' notification. If we put up everything in all the logs that people have been punished for, it just creates more opportunity for drama. As much as I would love to be fully transparent on this kind of issue...it's a challenge. It's a lot easier to get e-butthurt than real-life butthurt, and while a real-life butthurt incident ends up in an argument and/or the end of a friendship....it can be the creation of a horrible type of troll that takes a frakton of time and energy to deal with.

3) Thread closing: We (I) try to close threads when they're being derailed or have descended to the point of arguing about things that aren't productive. Can you give some examples of threads that you think shouldn't've been closed? Other points of view are always good--more content is more clicks, and if there's the opportunity for more discussion, I'm all for it.

4) 'take it or leave it' mentality: I'm personally not a fan of that. You'll notice that even though I'm being directly criticized (and it's not just here--some other mods are not fans of my decisions, and I respect that and am glad that I'm getting the opportunity to hear feedback from others. It's an opportunity I don't often get, since...well, it's the interwebs) I'm trying to keep an open dialogue and not shut anyone down. Ain't nobody gonna get banned for raising reasonable points, especially in this forum. People will get points and banned for continually derailing threads bringing up topics like this. Yet another reason I'm glad this thread exists. And yes, I realize the irony of me not being in favour of take-it-or-leave-it and being banhappy. Cognitive Dissonance at its finest.


Radioman: As I said to grid before, it's more opportunities for drama. I don't want to say "We don't have to tell you", but when people ask why others were banned, mods will generally give a reason. If, however, we make new threads for each banning...it'll bring up more opportunities for chaos.

Emperor: Lomac has it. Keeping the discussion going, posting more than just "LOL" or "you go girl" and all that jazz.

AzN: generally, people have friends on RS who will PM mods or make a thread here and ask. We've also had some people sign up on new accounts and PM asking to have their accounts back and what have you.

RFlush: I think you'll notice that hasn't been happening lately. Much of the issues with that was that some companies were approached for advertising opportunities, turned it down, and then would post from an account from their IP address talking about the great services; or they'd ask their customers to post on RS to say what a good job they did or what have you. It was the equivalent of getting on the skytrain with a book of 9 bus tickets, and then when you get checked saying "oh shit, I know I had it somewhere..." Fortunately, things in that regard have calmed down for the most part. But as I've said before, it's difficult and a fine line.


-edit-
rules updated to indicate no NWS at all; any other suggestions for rules?

First, thanks for taking the time to write that out. I think it clears up a lot of the inner workings of some decisions.

On the rules:

I think someone needs to spend some time on a policy regarding racism. I have noticed that its being addressed on the forums, and its appreciated by the casual viewer(ie. me). Whether that policy is straight out zero tolerance, or a warn then ban, or a loophole for obvious sarcasm-not really my call. I personally don't care for zero tolerance policies because a lot of people can get caught up in that type of thing, and it comes across as draconian. As it stands now, once again, officially there is nothing to prevent people syaing whatever they want in regards to racially derogatory comments.

Sexist comments: How the hell you navigate that one, I really don't know. It's prevalent all over the internet-almost popular. I will say that if you want to edge this site more mainstream, that brings women into the mix and I don't think they would feel welcome on this site...at all.

I think the second one should at least be something written to the effect of not taking your fights off revscene. Will it stop it? Probably not, but at least its out there. Maybe that one person will read it and think that there could be some unintended consequences when you breach the relative anonymity that a forum provides and start taking it real life, with real names and consequences for real careers and real people's lives.

[Razor Ramon HG]

On that note, I have to admit I'm slightly jealous that so many people even cares about a guy that had an account for slightly over a year, with 171 posts with a pretty bad thanks/fail ratio.

Oh, trust me when I say no one gives a fuck about the guy that got banned. It was more about the principle.

With the many recent bans going on (especially the whole bcrdukes fiasco which I thought was overexaggerated), I think we were all confused as to why exactly BMW was banned when his comment was what I considered to be within RS standards. The only thing I could see that the mods could take offense to was the tone or content of his comment (despite it being very plausible). Then again, there were a bunch of further posts later on in the thread that pretty much said the same thing.

But as Graeme has explained (which I appreciate), I see his reasonings behind the ban. And even though I may not personally agree that it was the right course of action, it is what it is.

Perhaps the reason threads like these pop up is because there's a big lack of transparency when a ban is made public. There is barely ever a comment written as to why a ban is a ban, and while it may be obvious for the majority of posts, the recent bans were a bit more ambiguous.

Then there's also the fact that alot of stupid shit has been said on this forum to the point that it's almost become an unwritten rule that it's tolerable. I think a public announcement should be made and/or email sent to all members if you guys wish to proceed to clean up the tone of speech on the board.

Sometimes I also feel there is strong inconsistencies within the moderation board. bcrdukes was banned for the chink comment, yet no one as far as I knew was banned from that thread with all "nuke the shithole Africa" comments.

I don't know. These have just been my thoughts from the last several days.

[Graeme S]

One of the biggest issues with RS is that if you're too strict, people won't post because they figure "whatever, I'll just get points/banned" If you're too lax, you end up with people leaving RS because they get offended/out-sworn/what have you. What this results in is a constant wave; ebbs and flows, as I posted in the RWB thread.

One of the issues is new members. You see, it's an issue of respect and conscientiousness. When the old schoolers and chill people are just shooting the shit, we can easily predict and guess what they're going to say and we know what it means. But what do we do when new members join and say the same things? Do we let it slide because the old schoolers say it? So if we do, the OSers say "Well, shit, the new kids got away with that, I guess we can get a little looser with our tongues and our insults" and then a shitstorm ensues.

It's like the difference between talking with you and your buddies and when you're out and about. There's a big difference between shooting the shit and talking with your buddies in a coffeeshop. Sometimes, when you're out and about, you need one of your friend to be like "Dude, shut up about nailing that chick last night. There's a fucking kid behind you, man!"

The mods are that buddy. And sometimes we make the right call and keep the conversation appropriate for the situation. And sometimes we don't. And it's threads like this that help us understand exactly where and when it is that we're supposed to intervene.


So let's keep this ball rolling.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

And while it is true that those bans may seem unwarranted and overly harsh, I felt they were appropriate at the time.

When it comes to BMWM5, that one I did do almost immediately. I looked at the post, the comments and discussion that were happening around it, and then into his user history, his join date, and a variety of other things. Then I banned him.


so, they were appropriate at the time, are they still appropriate?

I don't get it still.

What he said didn't warrant points, so he shouldn't be banned by points... and if it's not point worthy, then he shouldn't of been banned at all period...

what he said wasn't wrong at all. in fact he was right... not that that matters.

she could be found all fine and dandy, his post was still fine. I just don't get he would get banned over that. Anyone should be able to say that in that thread and not get any points or get banned.


why can't we just let the people who were banned do their own propaganda to the mods. why is it that whenever some has been banned lately there is a flock of white knights attempting to sway the mods?

who cares....this shit is annoying to read in all the OT threads.

yeah you don't care because you don't have the fear of getting banned in you.

nor have you ever got banned.

the people that get banned won't message mods. if they do, they'll get ignored.

it's called compassion and empathy, i hope you learn it one day.

that person could be you. and you would have a team of people backing you up if it were unjust.

but if the world were full of people like you, no one would give a fuck if you were dying on the side of the street and couldn't call for help.


Maybe a bit off-topic, but if someone were to suddenly get banned? Is there a way to contact a mod to try and explain or get the account back?

see. another example. most people wouldn't even know HOW to contact the mods.

there's not even a "banned" forum people see if they're banned, and post if they think it were unjust.


On that note, I have to admit I'm slightly jealous that so many people even cares about a guy that had an account for slightly over a year, with 171 posts with a pretty bad thanks/fail ratio.

Unless it's a 2nd account or you guys knew him personally...

we don't care about that guy. that guy could be anyone. that guy could be you. that guy could be me.

who cares about his # of posts or his thanks/fail ratio. he said something anyone could have said, for all the right reasons. and he got banned because of it.


so ulic is mad because his bf got banned?

yeah that's totally it.

gone are the days where you could ban people just because they think the girls you like are butt ugly.

Oh i believe the person that disagreed with you is me. and i believe you lost your mod powers because you banned me (and several others) without just cause.



People can be banned for just reasons... but if it's unjust I'll stand for them, i don't care who they are, what they've done in the past, or whatever.



so since I posted the original thing, what has been done about hondaracer and bmwm5?

from the sounds of it hondaracer might of been a little out of line, and it seems like his ban is temporary, which is fine.

but what about bmw m5?





I can't find the thread anymore, it's probably in the archives somewhere (for some reason i cannot even see that).
but long ago, i wrote something that just got ignored and laughed at (i suppose everything i write still is still half ignored by most mods, since they still view every single one of my posts as me trying to stir shit up, no different now than back then), but tons of people were getting banned and things were out of control... there were big flame wars back and forth users vs mods.

things are better now since mods can't just fucking ban people at will.

but back then i submitted my idea of having ombudsmen.
basically they are a special type of mod... with no relation to mods. and they cannot be mods as well... that would be a total conflict of interest.

they have separate forums and separate everything. their class of user is entirely their own category. they can see all forums except mod forums and their own ombudsmen forum.
the only thing mods and them can share is they can both see the list of people who have been banned.

the main thing is ... they are there to represent the interest of the users.

they should keep their opinions out of any threads.
they basically are there for banned users to plea to. the ombudsmen will then look into any user who pleas to them... all they have to do is look into the users history and points (which will be visible to them), and consider if the ban was "just".

this basically keeps the mods in check. the mods shouldn't be the ones voting if someone should stay banned. they cannot be the police, judge, jury and executioner all in one. that leads to highly subjective decisions.

I'm not saying these ombudsmen are there to oppose mods. no. they should have no contribution to the forum other than reviewing bans (there must be a forum you guys use to report every user that has been banned).

they shouldn't be personal friends with the mods. they need to be very objective people and base everything on fairness, and what the public seems to want.



yes i understand some mods will get hissy fits and feel like their job is being looked down on, but no... that's just some immature emotional bullshit going on.
if you ban someone, and the ombudsmen unban him, it doesn't mean you're not doing your job. it would just mean you made the wrong decision that one time. most bans would still go through, because as i see it, most bans are dupe accounts and spammers and not actually super trolls or dickwads.


I'm just saying there needs to be a separate body that users can plea to.

No one trusts a cop, so why would you expect users to want to pea to the same people that fucking put a bullet to their head?

plus, that is a big ego boost to the mods and a big slash to the ego to someone that gets banned.

you know how hard it is for someone to beg to the same person that banned them?
you guys sure as hell know how much it boosts your ego when the same guy you banned pleas for forgiveness (even if he's right).

that's just wrong man. users need another outlet of complaint, another outlet for support that's official, that has real power. all these mod vs user threads and posts would all be under the ombudsmen forums and take a load off what mods have to deal with. yes ombudsmen will requests mods to give their input and their view on the situation, and take that into heavy consideration.

but like i said, it's only fair that a perma banned user has one last plea with someone who isn't part of the same group that exiled them.

[guddagudd]

I am willing to be an ombudsman.

[radioman]

Gudda's not the ombudsman we deserve, but the ombudsman we need.

[guddagudd]

Thanks, but I am very serious. I believe I possess the fairness quality that an ombudsman needs to carry on his duty successfully.

[Gridlock]

OMG...wow.

First, I think we've had a constructive thread...some users said their peace, and the mods said theirs. Everyone walks away in a happy, harmonious vibe feeling that the world can continue, now that users and mods of RS can live together.

But, now we need an ombudsman role.

Dude...wtf?

Why stop there? Why not have an ombudsman to the ombudsman? We can call them the "super-ombudsmen" and give them special badges for their avatar. Then, when THAT group gets out of hand, we can have the "Group of Three" who's role is to officiate the decisions that are produced from the super-ombudsman.

Then, we'll need an appeal process.

Or maybe...people could just not say stupid shit? And maybe the mods can remember that sometimes people just say stupid shit. Isn't that what this thread is about? Because here's what I got out of it:

"hey Graeme, could you cool it a little bit on the bans left and right? Maybe speak a bit as to whats happening?"

"Yeah."

Done.



it's called compassion and empathy, i hope you learn it one day.

but if the world were full of people like you, no one would give a fuck if you were dying on the side of the street and couldn't call for help.

No one trusts a cop, so why would you expect users to want to pea to the same people that fucking put a bullet to their head?


you know how hard it is for someone to beg to the same person that banned them?

but like i said, it's only fair that a perma banned user has one last plea with someone who isn't part of the same group that exiled them.

Not at all mellow dramatic.

Oh i believe the person that disagreed with you is me. and i believe you lost your mod powers because you banned me (and several others) without just cause.

But isn't this a little bit of the issue here? I HAVE read your shit, and first I find you a funny guy, and this is not personal.

But you kind of always were the guy that liked to be the thorn in the side of mods. You've been here a long ass time, with a large ass amount of posts...but you aren't a mod.

At the end of the day...its an internet forum. It's one of...1000's? Tens of? I don't know. People enjoy a common interest, and enjoy interacting with the same people...but in the world of internet forums, the same problems happen on the same type of sites with the same type of people and revscene puts its pants on one leg at a time just like all the rest. Meaning, people get banned and there is an outcry...mods act and people hate...and there is the inevitable 'wtf' thread and everyone moves on and sings kumbaya.

Everyone should take a moment, close the browser and look out a window and see a whole other world out there. Puts BMW M5's unjust banning into perspective.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

OMG...wow.

First, I think we've had a constructive thread...some users said their peace, and the mods said theirs. Everyone walks away in a happy, harmonious vibe feeling that the world can continue, now that users and mods of RS can live together.

no obviously you are not on the same track as everyone else.

everyone said their thing and no one walked away happy, except maybe you.

what happened was everyone walked away and nothing changed, this thread might as well of not existed.

nothing was changed. no one was unbanned. nothing changed.



Then, we'll need an appeal process.


the ombudsman would be the appeal process.


Or maybe...people could just not say stupid shit? And maybe the mods can remember that sometimes people just say stupid shit. Isn't that what this thread is about? Because here's what I got out of it:

"hey Graeme, could you cool it a little bit on the bans left and right? Maybe speak a bit as to whats happening?"

"Yeah."

Done.


say stupid shit? you really think people that say "stupid" shit think they're saying stupid shit? do you know what perspective is?

fuck man. i don't know how subjective you can be.

what the fuck is stupid shit?

is what bmwm5 said stupid? no i dont think it was stupid. i think it was 100% fine.

yeah this thread is about that. mods interpreting what "stupid" is.
and what happened? tell them to cool it on the banning? and then what? what about the people that got banned? are they unbanned? no? so what did we really accomplish then? NOTHING.



Not at all mellow dramatic.


it doesn't matter. it's the truth. now she fucking nows why people stick together.
the way she was thinking was ultra selfish and self centered. and super subjective.

if she got banned unfairly, i'm sure i'll keep it in my mind not to help her out.

she obviously doesn't have the ability to see it in her head, how having some people that will stand up for you is very comforting. especially a group of people that will help them get unbanned or at least speak out for the weaker users when they get their rights revoked.

did she grow up without a family or some shit? does she not know what camaraderie means?



But isn't this a little bit of the issue here? I HAVE read your shit, and first I find you a funny guy, and this is not personal.

But you kind of always were the guy that liked to be the thorn in the side of mods. You've been here a long ass time, with a large ass amount of posts...but you aren't a mod.

At the end of the day...its an internet forum. It's one of...1000's? Tens of? I don't know. People enjoy a common interest, and enjoy interacting with the same people...but in the world of internet forums, the same problems happen on the same type of sites with the same type of people and revscene puts its pants on one leg at a time just like all the rest. Meaning, people get banned and there is an outcry...mods act and people hate...and there is the inevitable 'wtf' thread and everyone moves on and sings kumbaya.

Everyone should take a moment, close the browser and look out a window and see a whole other world out there. Puts BMW M5's unjust banning into perspective.

see, this is where you and most other mods don't get it. you think i "like" being a thorn at their side.
you think i "purposely" do this.

no that is where you are wrong. this is who i am. period. permanently forever. and this is how some other users are too.
we aren't TRYING to be deviant. this is who we are NATURALLY.

Im not a mod... because i don't want to be a mod. it would be a total conflict of interest. i oppose mods that speak out their minds. i think they're like cops.

if i were to become a cop, ulic would have to die. and i'd have to be a good cop and keep my subjective opinions to myself and do my duty.

your argument about this being just a forum and we should open our eyes to the outside world blah blah blah doesn't work buddy.
that is your subjective opinion. I care more about unjust banning than the bum sitting outside the skytrain station begging for money.

you're being very subjective and unfair right now. if you were the one that got banned, you sure as fuck wouldn't be saying these things. (especially if dinosaur got banned, or vice versa).

like i said, you and dinosaur obviously have no perspective of what empathy is.
you do not have the ability to put yourself in someone else shoes and remove your own feelings and views of the world.

put yourself in their shoes.
if the first thing you think is "well i wouldn't say something so stupid". then you've completely missed the point.


like i said, the point of this thread completely flew over your head.

i didn't start it so people can pour out their feelings and mods can do the same then we can walk away all happy. no.
i started it so the two people that got banned would get unbanned, and hopefully nothing similar will happen in the future.


like i said, why are the two users still banned?
http://www.revscene.net/forums/680177-missing-vancouver-woman-sought-los-angeles-3.html#post8159913

the likes are piling up, and not one fail.

and like i said before... he was right. she is dead. (not that that matters). shouldn't he be let back in? I'm very disappointed that not one mod has sided with me on this issue.

perhaps it's just like the LAPD gang mentality. if anyone speaks out, they're just labeled as a black sheep. they're all laughing now, until they're the ones that get banned.

i mean, he could just make a new account, but what does that really accomplish?


EDIT: i realise im not really here to change how mods mod etc. i know that will never change and you guys will never take my ideas seriously. so all i ask is, for bmwm5 to get unbanned, and that mods should always think twice about banning someone based on... i duno, based on some temporary emotional outburst based on subjective views.

like i said... i don't think he did anything wrong. irregardless of his previous posts. that one post should not have gotten points or pushed anyone to ban him. yeah as for hondaracer, i don't even know which thread he got banned in, but i TRUST you guys will deal with that accordingly since he's got a bit more flex than bmwm5.

[dinosaur]

yeah you don't care because you don't have the fear of getting banned in you.

nor have you ever got banned.

the people that get banned won't message mods. if they do, they'll get ignored.

it's called compassion and empathy, i hope you learn it one day.

that person could be you. and you would have a team of people backing you up if it were unjust.

but if the world were full of people like you, no one would give a fuck if you were dying on the side of the street and couldn't call for help.


Yeah, ya know what....I don't give a fuck. This is the internet...and better yet, this is a local forum on cars. This shit ain't life.

You can puke out your shit about me lacking empathy and compassion but what this little display you just put on shows that you have no separation between RS and reality. I guess this is how someone gets to have over 26k posts on one fucking forum.

[Soundy]

But, now we need an ombudsman role.

Dude...wtf?

Why stop there? Why not have an ombudsman to the ombudsman? We can call them the "super-ombudsmen" and give them special badges for their avatar. Then, when THAT group gets out of hand, we can have the "Group of Three" who's role is to officiate the decisions that are produced from the super-ombudsman.

Then, we'll need an appeal process.
The thing to remember with ALL forums like this is, they aren't a democracy. They aren't meant to be "fair", neither are they required to be.

This type of forum is generally something that someone started once for fun. Some rules have to be put in place to avoid outside influences shutting them down (ie. someone conducts illegal activity via the forum).

As they become more popular, it becomes necessary to upgrade services. That costs money, money which the owner(s) can carry out-of-pocket, or they can start charging memberships... or they can sell ad space. To SOME degree, it becomes necessary to keep those advertisers... well, if not happy, then at least calm, otherwise they'll take their money elsewhere, the hosting doesn't get paid for, and the forum shuts down.

Through all of this, the people owning and running the forum still need a REASON to do it. If it starts costing too much out-of-pocket, they may decide to just flip the switch. If it becomes too much bitching and arguing, they may decide it's not worth the headache, and flip the switch. Ultimately, interested parties (aka moderators) may volunteer their time to help keep things running smoothly... but there too, if it's volunteer work, they'll only do it as long as it's not too much hassle. Make it so the mods are sick of doing it, they step aside, then the owners get tired of the hassle... and again, the switch gets flipped.

At the end of the day, the person who does all the work and pays the bills has the final say, and he/she/it doesn't need to give any more in-depth explanation than, "Because I said so." So while "transparency" in moderation is NICE TO HAVE, it should never become EXPECTED.

[guddagudd]

Yeah, ya know what....I don't give a fuck. This is the internet...and better yet, this is a local forum on cars. This shit ain't life.

You can puke out your shit about me lacking empathy and compassion but what this little display you just put on shows that you have no separation between RS and reality. I guess this is how someone gets to have over 26k posts on one fucking forum.

Ad hominem. Whether or not Ulic can distinguish real life from a car forum has nothing to do with the fact that when you're banned for just voicing an opinion that wasn't even wrong, you start questioning why. And when you have no means of finding out and have no one else to help you, you feel like you've been wronged, no matter how big of a degree you are able to separate yourself from online forums.

The thing to remember with ALL forums like this is, they aren't a democracy. They aren't meant to be "fair", neither are they required to be.

This type of forum is generally something that someone started once for fun. Some rules have to be put in place to avoid outside influences shutting them down (ie. someone conducts illegal activity via the forum).

As they become more popular, it becomes necessary to upgrade services. That costs money, money which the owner(s) can carry out-of-pocket, or they can start charging memberships... or they can sell ad space. To SOME degree, it becomes necessary to keep those advertisers... well, if not happy, then at least calm, otherwise they'll take their money elsewhere, the hosting doesn't get paid for, and the forum shuts down.

Through all of this, the people owning and running the forum still need a REASON to do it. If it starts costing too much out-of-pocket, they may decide to just flip the switch. If it becomes too much bitching and arguing, they may decide it's not worth the headache, and flip the switch. Ultimately, interested parties (aka moderators) may volunteer their time to help keep things running smoothly... but there too, if it's volunteer work, they'll only do it as long as it's not too much hassle. Make it so the mods are sick of doing it, they step aside, then the owners get tired of the hassle... and again, the switch gets flipped.

At the end of the day, the person who does all the work and pays the bills has the final say, and he/she/it doesn't need to give any more in-depth explanation than, "Because I said so." So while "transparency" in moderation is NICE TO HAVE, it should never become EXPECTED.

Sure, forums don't have to be fair. But why would users continue to browse and contribute to a forum if it isn't fair and their membership can instantly be revoked. And remember, the user in question here, BMW_M5, didn't even break any rules and he was banned. If fairness in a forum is not mandatory, so be it, you guys can set rules, we can follow them. But even if the set rules are followed to the tee and users are still getting banned, is that not unjust? Your post has an extreme fatherly vibe coming from it, and I'm not talking about the kind where you take your kids to the park, I'm talking about the kind where you punish a kid, and when they ask why, you say "Because I said so."

[Soundy]

Sure, forums don't have to be fair. But why would users continue to browse and contribute to a forum if it isn't fair and their membership can instantly be revoked.
Users come here for the same reason the owners and mods keep it running: because they enjoy it. Because they get a personal benefit from it. Because for most of them, the hundreds of helpful, entertaining, amusing, enjoyable threads and users generally outweigh the headaches and unfathomable moderator decisions.

You may put more weight on the odd :fulloffuck: than whatever positives you get out of the forum - that's up to YOU to decide.

If fairness in a forum is not mandatory, so be it, you guys can set rules, we can follow them. But even if the set rules are followed to the tee and users are still getting banned, is that not unjust?
For something to be "unjust" there has to be a foundation of justice first. A privately-run forum typically doesn't have one, nor is it required to have one. Thus, it's not "unjust"... it's just the way things are.

Your post has an extreme fatherly vibe coming from it, and I'm not talking about the kind where you take your kids to the park, I'm talking about the kind where you punish a kid, and when they ask why, you say "Because I said so."
I don't have anything to do with the operation or moderation of this forum; I'm just telling you how it is, based on about two-and-a-half decades' online experience using, moderating, and building and running everything from early BBSes and dialup chats, to modern web forums.

So no, I'm not the dad punishing anyone and then telling them to suck it up "because I said so"... I'm the big kid who's been around the block and seen it all, standing off to the side warning you that when you're playing in someone else's sandbox, you play by their rules, and if you don't like those rules, you're welcome to fuck off and build your own sandbox... or if you're going to stand in the middle of that sandbox crying about the rules, you can expect the ACTUAL dads to pick your ass up and toss you in the kiddie pool to chill out.

Those dads don't have to be fair either, because they built the sandbox, they shoveled in the sand into it, and they're the ones who have to go in every day and rake all the poop out of the sand. And if they say your shit stinks, then that's their call, not yours.

[?NR]

bmwm 24.86.174.xxx [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
e60m5 24.86.174.xxx [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
m5 24.86.174.xxx [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]

IP Address Search for User: "BMW M5"
Registration IP Address 24.86.174.xxx

I am reviewing this case and upon looking into it, there are multiple registrations. All these have been banned as duplicates are not allowed.

now, secondly I've been also reviewing the ban on the main account BMW M5. I'd like to hear from you in this forum.

banned members from here on have the ability to visit the member support forum to inquire why they were banned, or put in a notion as to why they shouldn't be banned. These will be looked after by the executive council and reviewed.

this is not meant to be abused. If your ban is due to an obvious reason, it will not reach the executive level. If you are appealing a decision just to waste our time, don't.

as for ombudsman, unfortunately that won't happen. As a private entity we are reserving our rights.

so with that said, here is the disposition upon an urgent meeting with another fellow admin late last night:

To BMW M5 - for possible reinstatement, please either post here or contact me via email Niteraven@REVscene.net. We will hear and listen if you have anything you would like to bring up. Please maintain civility.

To general members: thank you for your inputs, I ask that all please cool down for the moment and see which way we can go, to mutually satisfy each others requests.

Not everything will happen overnight, I am but one person and I am a volunteer, I have other much more pressing priorities daily aside from REVscene and I shall do what I can. Consider the same for all moderators and executive council.

thank you all.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Yeah, ya know what....I don't give a fuck. This is the internet...and better yet, this is a local forum on cars. This shit ain't life.

You can puke out your shit about me lacking empathy and compassion but what this little display you just put on shows that you have no separation between RS and reality. I guess this is how someone gets to have over 26k posts on one fucking forum.

Ad hominem. Whether or not Ulic can distinguish real life from a car forum has nothing to do with the fact that when you're banned for just voicing an opinion that wasn't even wrong, you start questioning why. And when you have no means of finding out and have no one else to help you, you feel like you've been wronged, no matter how big of a degree you are able to separate yourself from online forums.

she obvioulsy doesn't get it. it just flies over her head. she gets all emotional and subjective and with nothing left she'll start dishing out personal attacks that have no relevance to anything. like a little kid, emotional outburst.

first of all, separation between RS and reality? listen, when you sit in your little room on your laptop for 3+ hours a day on this forum, it becomes your reality. in fact, you probably spend more time on this forum than you do at your job. you're telling me this forum has no relevance on your perception of what reality is? give me a break. you think you can just dish out personal attacks and then shut your laptop off and stare out the window, and forget about your "i don't give a shit" attitude online? please. if you got banned or trolled hard, i highly doubt you'd stay emotionally stable. especially you.

second of all, you just dissed everyone with a huge post count. i don't know about you, but if you bothered to do the math before you blurted out that random attack, you'd realise that some of us have been on this forum for 12-14 years. do the math, that's like an average of 6 posts a day.
http://www.revscene.net/forums/members/list/?order=DESC&sort=posts&pp=50
oh... i guess they're all delusional losers too right? especially skinnypupp, shit he has even MORE posts than me... in fact most of those users joined AFTER me and have just as many posts. really? really?!

i know exactly what I am doing, whereas you don't. just because you realise the truth in what I have said about you, doesn't mean you can just start spewing out emotional attacks because your panties are in a knot. you are selfish. instead of being even more selfish and attacking others, why don't you just accept the truth in what i said?

i didn't wanna bring this up but, gridlock, get up, go to the other room where she's sitting, and take her laptop away... and you're saying I have no life? ...hah c'mon. don't even go there.

bmwm 24.86.174.xxx [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
e60m5 24.86.174.xxx [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]
m5 24.86.174.xxx [Find Posts by User] [View Other IP Addresses for this User]

IP Address Search for User: "BMW M5"
Registration IP Address 24.86.174.xxx

I am reviewing this case and upon looking into it, there are multiple registrations. All these have been banned as duplicates are not allowed.

now, secondly I've been also reviewing the ban on the main account BMW M5. I'd like to hear from you in this forum.

banned members from here on have the ability to visit the member support forum to inquire why they were banned, or put in a notion as to why they shouldn't be banned. These will be looked after by the executive council and reviewed.

this is not meant to be abused. If your ban is due to an obvious reason, it will not reach the executive level. If you are appealing a decision just to waste our time, don't.

as for ombudsman, unfortunately that won't happen. As a private entity we are reserving our rights.

so with that said, here is the disposition upon an urgent meeting with another fellow admin late last night:

To BMW M5 - for possible reinstatement, please either post here or contact me via email Niteraven@REVscene.net. We will hear and listen if you have anything you would like to bring up. Please maintain civility.

To general members: thank you for your inputs, I ask that all please cool down for the moment and see which way we can go, to mutually satisfy each others requests.

Not everything will happen overnight, I am but one person and I am a volunteer, I have other much more pressing priorities daily aside from REVscene and I shall do what I can. Consider the same for all moderators and executive council.

thank you all.

ok, well first, thanks for the professional, un-emotional response.
second... sounds fair. but since a bunch of users are very interested in the outcome of this, I will assume we will be updated if a final final decision has been made if he does decide to contact you guys.

[?NR]

yes he did this morning. I was going to update upon finishing work today but since I'm here I will do so. He apologized for his comment. Wasn't meant to be taken as rude comment but instead an opinion. He chose to keep his bmw m5 account banned and I allowed a duplicate for his use.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

thanks.

[Gridlock]

While we have this thread here...I want to clear up something, once and for all.

Apparently...there was discussion in chat that I, somehow and miraculously had something to do with hondaracer being banned. I don't know if its true, or not, or otherwise. Don't know who said it, or why. Could have been straight up conjecture. Who knows.

I don't really care. And I'm going to tell you why.

In fact, this isn't the first time that I've heard my "name" come up as being something involved with issues with many different people. And if its not my name, then its that of my gf, who is on the site.

I'm not a mod. Never have been, and probably never will be. Why? I considered it, and talked to a few people about it, but I personally feel that that isn't where I could be the best contributor.

I do know a few mods. I don't know why specifically that the friends we have made happen to be mods...maybe its because they tend to be older, and sadly that is my age group...I don't have a lot in common with 20 yr olds. I'm going to tell you here and now if you think that gives me an inside track...its doesn't. I have NEVER been shown anything that was the "inside track" and I will tell you that the mod group is EXCEPTIONALLY good at maintaining their privacy.

I've been involved in my share of...lets cal it "issues". Full disclosure for the sake of openness and honesty. My girlfriend was involved in a breach on this site of her personal information. It pissed me off. I also received a PM from a member of the site that warned me to "keep my bitch in line". That also pissed me off.

In both instances, I did something about it. Hell, for anyone that thinks I have some inside track on anything, my actions in both cases had the EXACT opposite effect of that.

I've also had it brought to my attention that "some" people think Dino and I get special treatment on this site. I can't tell you who "some" people are because no one has ever told me. So much for my insider connections. Let me clear this up as well, unless someone wants to actually bring to my attention an example that I can say, "yes, that appears to be special treatment" then I call bullshit. We have two separate user accounts. We're obviously two different people. I cannot think of anything else. We occasionally thank, and even fail each other's posts, but its based on actual agreement, and not trying to run up the counts for the ability to have a higher number. And I think between us, it might be less than 10. Whoopee!

BUT...what HAS happened, is I've had PM's sent to keep my bitch in line, she's been called a bitch on the forum(multiple times), we've had people giving her the finger behind her back at meets, and there is one other, rather large thing that I'm not getting into that would literally make your skin crawl in disgust. It did mine. That's just the big stuff.

So here is what I'd suggest for anyone that has something to say. Go ahead, and man up, and say it. Send a PM that says, "hey...I find it offensive when..." or "actually, that was really rude" or fucking ANYTHING because here is the big amount of messages we've gotten directly from anyone.

0.

Zero.

Zilch.

So, to finalize here...if you have something to say to one of us, or about one of us...why don't you just say it TO one of us?

I have never "campaigned" to have anyone banned, or points given or anything. I think I've reported a few posts for racist comments. I can't even remember who wrote them. On that subject, I am indiscriminate. My virtue of people complaining about either of us, without actually letting us know that there WERE complaints, or who they were from, I do view that as people campaigning against us.

There are women on this forum that keep their SEX a secret as to avoid undue attention. And I understand why. If you can get through the 50 "get me a sammich" comments, the "pics or GTFO" comments, then you graduate to creepy PM's privately, a smattering of cyber-stalking and at the end of the day, if you give off the impression that "don't ask me, I'm just a girl" isn't a statement you make in math class, then you get to just be a bitch.

Much like racism on this board, the sexism is hostile. I will continue to fight both wherever I can.

TL;DR If you have an issue, then man up and fucking say it.

[MindBomber]

Apparently...there was discussion in chat that I, somehow and miraculously had something to do with hondaracer being banned. I don't know if its true, or not, or otherwise. Don't know who said it, or why. Could have been straight up conjecture. Who knows.

I don't really care. And I'm going to tell you why.

In fact, this isn't the first time that I've heard my "name" come up as being something involved with issues with many different people.

Oh, I have an idea who may have said something and why....

For the record: the rental expertise you freely share is an outstanding contribution to the community, imo.

[Soundy]

this is not meant to be abused. If your ban is due to an obvious reason, it will not reach the executive level. If you are appealing a decision just to waste our time, don't.
You don't read the Police Forum much, do you? Appealing a charge just for the sake of appealing a charge is probably the most common advice dished out there :troll:

thank you all.
As a mostly-disinterested observer of this thread, and someone who's been in your shoes... thank YOU, and all the admin/mod staff, for the work you guys do to keep this place running smoothly (now where is that :brownnose: emoticon?? :suspicious:)

[Soundy]

Yeah, ya know what....I don't give a fuck. This is the internet...and better yet, this is a local forum on cars. This shit ain't life.

You can puke out your shit about me lacking empathy and compassion but what this little display you just put on shows that you have no separation between RS and reality.

:werd:

[bcrdukes]

I guess this is how someone gets to have over 26k posts on one fucking forum.

I'm offended.

[MeowMeow]

I'm offended.

Why? It's totally true you have no life other than Revscene
Spending hours and hours on chat
Talking shit about me behind my back
Making racist and sexist comment.
:troll:
Posted via RS Mobile

[Spidey]

Lol. as a "mod' back in the day, I never took it seriously. I admit it was immature of me to do what I did, but I still think it is funny because it created such an uproar over an internet forum. I wouldn't do it again, but I still find it funny how you created a thread to complain about it. As dinosaur stated, it's the internet. It is the internet for a car forum. It isn't life. No one got fired, kicked out of school, or had their reputation ruined. They got banned from posting on an internet car forum. It's not like they can't create another account and start posting/browsing again.

[Soundy]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/Jimster480/Serious%20Buisiness/internet_serious_business_framed.jpg

[El Bastardo]

While this thread has had impassioned, well reasoned, and excellently written arguments from all sides of this issue and we've seen a great discussion in here we need to remember that this is the Member's Support forum and posts should be on topic.

[Soundy]

While this thread has had impassioned, well reasoned, and excellently written arguments from all sides of this issue...
I know, that's weird... where is this, and what happened to Revscene???

[RFlush]

For the people who say it's just the internet get over it, or its just a forum and internet is serious business, how many meets have their been and how many real life friendships have been made due to rs? I'm sure quite a bit so it's not just some online forum.

Personally I've been banned twice or maybe three times. I felt it was unjust and bullshit. I corrected skinnypup and he edited his post and mine to say I was wrong but luckily I had screenshot both his and my original post. I posted it up and got banned. That shit shouldn't be allowed.

Thankfully he hasn't been such a nazi and just fails people for no reason but doesn't ban them.
Posted via RS Mobile

[SkinnyPupp]

For the people who say it's just the internet get over it, or its just a forum and internet is serious business, how many meets have their been and how many real life friendships have been made due to rs? I'm sure quite a bit so it's not just some online forum.

Personally I've been banned twice or maybe three times. I felt it was unjust and bullshit. I corrected skinnypup and he edited his post and mine to say I was wrong but luckily I had screenshot both his and my original post. I posted it up and got banned. That shit shouldn't be allowed.

Thankfully he hasn't been such a nazi and just fails people for no reason but doesn't ban them.
Posted via RS Mobile
Just to be clear, I didn't ban you for taking a screenshot of my typo, I banned you for being a cunt about it ;)

But yeah, that was stupid of me, and I still feel shitty about that and the other shitty things I said to people back then.

[Soundy]

For the people who say it's just the internet get over it, or its just a forum and internet is serious business, how many meets have their been and how many real life friendships have been made due to rs? I'm sure quite a bit so it's not just some online forum.
This is exactly what others are talking about with "confusing RS and real life". Being banned from a web forum does not stop you from continuing those outside friendships or attending meets. ALL it does, is stop you from communicating on the forum. If your relationships formed through the forum are real friendships, you should have email addresses, phone numbers, Skype handles, Facebook/Twitter/Pinterest/whatever ties with those people; it's not like being banned from one forum is going to cut them out of your life.

So yeah... it's just the internet; get over it.

Edit: BTW, SkinnyPupp, why is your avatar dressed like Chad Greenway??

[Spidey]

For the people who say it's just the internet get over it, or its just a forum and internet is serious business, how many meets have their been and how many real life friendships have been made due to rs? I'm sure quite a bit so it's not just some online forum.

Personally I've been banned twice or maybe three times. I felt it was unjust and bullshit. I corrected skinnypup and he edited his post and mine to say I was wrong but luckily I had screenshot both his and my original post. I posted it up and got banned. That shit shouldn't be allowed.

Thankfully he hasn't been such a nazi and just fails people for no reason but doesn't ban them.
Posted via RS Mobile

Sorry, but if your life depends on RS to get by.... then... :alone:

[ts14]

Why? It's totally true you have no life other than Revscene
Spending hours and hours on chat
Talking shit about me behind my back
Making racist and sexist comment.
:troll:
Posted via RS Mobile

what r u talking about, bcrdukes is the nicest most humble hipster on this forum

:troll:

[knight604]

:Popcorn

[bcrdukes]

So yeah... it's just the internet; get over it.

Here's a little bit of a different take on it:

Some people have made some life-long friends on RS (I am one of them) and I am grateful for that. The difference between reality and your example of "It's just the Internet" is a bit more than that. What it means to some people is a community of some common interest, be it cars, audio, food, sports, or computers. The list goes on. When you take away the ability to log on or to become a part of the community, that "face" or identity if you will, loses its credibility. Sure, we can all create a new account, but as far as the "community" is concerned, it's just not the same face behind the username.

That being said, I respect your opinion and perspective. I understand where you're coming from and the point you're trying to get across. But to outright dismiss and to impose that "it's just the Internet" isn't very fair. If it bothers you or any one else that people get "butt hurt" over being banned from RS, you have every right not to have to share your opinion on the matter simply or be on the website because, to you people, "It's just the Internet" right?

Perhaps it's easier to say that some people have and know no shame.

[Alatar]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[RFlush]

How is this clearly racist comment when the user even admits it not ban worthy? Link below leads to Nsfw forum.
www.revscene.net/forums/526241-fucked-up-shit-what-makes-you-laugh-nws-1868.html#post8169219
Posted via RS Mobile

[!SG]

i skipped the first 2 pages.

here is a simple question, where was this so called racist remark made?

and why the fuck was the fight club and NWS sections created?

fightclub was made in an effort to create a section where all this bullshit and negativity can go to, away from the board.

NWS section was created for the same reason.

not a hard concept to understand.

[!SG]

if you cant handle the fight club or the nws section, then dont participate.

[RFlush]

Ok !SG, thank you for your in depth response into the matter and your calm help in solving the issue. It's great to see the CFO to chime in and help us out to define the rules.

As for the racist comment, it was towards people from mainland china and to "white people".

It's good to know that in nsfw and fight club we can be as racist as we want. Are we also able to discuss non sponsorship companies there as well?

Again, thank you for your time.

[Spidey]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!

[Soundy]

Ok !SG, thank you for your in depth response into the matter and your calm help in solving the issue. It's great to see the CFO to chime in and help us out to define the rules.

As for the racist comment, it was towards people from mainland china and to "white people".

It's good to know that in nsfw and fight club we can be as racist as we want. Are we also able to discuss non sponsorship companies there as well?

Again, thank you for your time.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4030692/memes/groucho%20not%20sure%20if%20serious%20640.jpg

[!SG]

go ahead and try.

if i dont ban you, ive instructed others to.

soliciting and poor taste and 2 completely different entities. you may not be able to tell the difference, but as owner, i have to.

and again, i have no reason nor willingness to go into depth.

again, us chinese invented racism. racism is everywhere. but something must have hit a nerve with you. if you cant handle the comments in fight club and nws, dont participate.

Ok !SG, thank you for your in depth response into the matter and your calm help in solving the issue. It's great to see the CFO to chime in and help us out to define the rules.

As for the racist comment, it was towards people from mainland china and to "white people".

It's good to know that in nsfw and fight club we can be as racist as we want. Are we also able to discuss non sponsorship companies there as well?

Again, thank you for your time.

[!SG]

actually, is this thread still on topic, or is it on a new thread but relative to the same topic?

in an effort to be less confused, ill close the thread, you can feel free to start a new one.