[Limitless]

WARNING: LONG READ

I know it's long and some people don't like reading. I'll try to summarize it:
-Entire lip kit was installed fairly badly by Lotus Autobody
-Front lip was only held on by 1 screw on each side, and 2 pieces of 3m tape 15cm long
-Front lip was on for 1.5 months before scraping it caused the 2 screws to start coming loose
-Brought back to shop to get inspected and fixed, but shop assured me that the lip was fine and that it was not a problem. They told me to come back only when the 2 screws are completely off, then they'll redrill new holes and mount new screws for me.
-Asked the if they could just screw it back in on the spot or fix it, they said no because it will crack the lip (pretty bull..)
-Lip flies off the car on the highway a few weeks later
-Lip brought back to the shop to be inspected, shop says it's not their fault but that it could be the fault of 3m for making bad tape, and the fact that the car was daily driven. But it was mounted 'properly' in their eyes and nothing could have been done to save the lip
-Shop also said it was not their fault because it took 3 months for the lip to fly off the car, and that if it fell off 1-2 days after install then it would have been their fault


Sorry, summary is still kind of long. Full story below



So around August 2012, I bought a lip kit and brought it over to Andrew @ Lotus Autobody to get it painted (just the rear piece) and the whole kit installed because my friend said he had a good experience getting his front lip painted and installed there. Paint was good, but install was terrible. Didn't want to say anything until now but if anyone has considered bringing it to this shop on Olafson and Bridgeport, I'd suggest reconsidering..

The day I went to go pick up my car after the kit had been installed, I noticed things wrong with every single piece.

Starting off with the biggest problem, the front lip.
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/858830_10152560362700582_433406165_o.jpg
If you notice very closely, you can see the bumper on the driver side by the fang has been scratched by the lip and the paint has faded. The install was done terribly, it only had two screws on the entire lip and two pieces of double sided tape approx 15cm long per side. That was it. Fitment was not perfect, and there was a very visible gap in between the lip and the bumper on the front edges. The tape was already peeling and there was a good 1-2cm gap on the curve of the bumper and lip, you can see the tape was sagging and completely useless there. The tape was about 1/4 of the lip? The rest of the weight was held on by one screw on each side. I asked Andrew if this was okay, and if he was sure. He said "Yeah of course it's fine". So I leave, and 1.5 months later I went back to the shop. By this time I had scraped the lip pretty badly because of my ride height, and the two screws were half out and also angled now instead of being parallel to the ground like it was before. I bought it to him to ask if he could remount it to make sure it stayed on. He took a look at it, tried to shake the lip, and then he said "No I can't do that because if I thread the screws in it will crack the lip. Wait for the screws to fall out and I will redrill a hole for you to mount a new screw in. I can't do that until it falls out". I asked if he was completely sure that it would hold, and he just said "Yeah of course". I was retarded and believed him. The car was garaged 2 weeks later (no more scraping now because I had gotten used to the height), and taken out just a week ago. Again, no scrapes. Today, on the highway, I was just about to take an exit and going about 120km/h I hear a sudden pop and a HUGE scraping sound. I immediately stop and pull over, walk around my car and find out my front lip had fallen off. It completely fell off and was no longer attached to the car, but because my car was so low it wouldn't clear underneath my bumper so my bumper simply pushed the lip forward and it kept dragging on ground. This is the result of dragging 120km/h -> 0km/h, doesn't look as bad as it does in person in these pictures. The bottom half is separated from the rest of the lip, and is no longer one sturdy piece. It just flaps now..
http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/857117_10152565989230582_979348543_o.jpg
The other side was sanded down by the concrete but it didn't completely sheer off yet, so it's still in one piece thankfully..
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/574610_10152565989235582_1680060453_n.jpg
I took it back to Andrew and didn't mention anything, just that it fell off while driving on the highway. He looks at it and says it's not repairable because it's completely carbon fiber. I ask how it fell off and he said he had no idea. Both screws were missing on each side and the tape snapped in two, half on the bumper and half on the lip. He said he had no idea how the screws could have fallen out, and that someone must have tried to steal my front lip. I told him that I had just retorqued my lugs this morning because I recently put on spacers about 100km ago. The screw was still in there. My friend even made a comment a couple of days ago about how stupid the installer was because there was marks on my bumper and the screw holding the lip in was sticking out, though I did correct him saying that the scraping of the lip is what caused the screw to stick out. Even though I wanted to put the screw back in, Andrew specifically told me not to and to just leave it the way it is until it does fall out. However, I just fucking realized that when the screw falls out, so will the lip. Because all it's held on by other than the screws, are two short pieces of 3m tape that was not even really holding on in the first place.

I asked him why it happened, and if it was an install mistake and if it could have been installed better. Andrew replies with "No not at all. If it was my mistake then the rest of your kit should have fallen off too because it was also done by me." This is complete bullshit because for one, the front lip takes most of the wind resistance when driving compared to the sides and rear. The sides at least had 5 or so bolts on each side, and the rear was siliconed to stay on. The front only had tape and 2 screws in total.

I also mentioned that I noticed and pointed out to him that the tape was already peeling the day that it was installed. He then says well that's not his fault, but is 3m's fault for making bad tape or if he used a defective roll. Wtf? In my opinion, it should be the body shop's responsibility for the products they use. If they don't expect the product to hold up the lip properly, why would they even use it? Shouldn't a proper bodyshop expect all of their work to actually last more than 3 months of usage without falling off?

He then says that it might have also fallen off because I drive it everyday. At this point I'm just like :rukidding: No shit I drive my car everyday, it's a freaking car. I told him that he should have expected cars to be driven... and that should not be an issue for a properly installed lip. He then says that if it was his fault, it should have fallen off the day of the install or the day after. But the fact that it took 3 months to fall off means that it was not the installers fault. I just can't believe it at this point. What kind of body shop installs a lip and says "oh well if it lasts more than one day on this car then my job is done"? I told him that I think that is a pretty big problem if a lip can't last on the car for a mere 3 months. Could it not have been mounted better? He again says 3 months of daily driving. He cannot take any responsibility for this at all.

He also asked me more than 3 times where the screws were in the half hour conversation we had. I told him that I don't know, obviously because the lip fucking flew off on the highway. The screws were probably somewhere on the highway. He says that doesn't make sense because screws can't simply fall off. I tell him that I saw the screws on the lip this morning, and he says again that someone probably took it off to try to steal the lip. I drove non stop today before the lip fell off, except to get gas and I was by my car the entire time. I told him this and that no one could have taken it off. He then says well there's no other option except someone trying to steal it. And that he can't say anything else about where the screws could have went because he could not see the screws. In my head I was thinking; well if you could see the fucking screws then my lip would still be on the car..

I understand that it could have been my fault for scraping the lip in the first place causing the screws to start to fall off, but I brought it back to Andrew because of this to make sure that it was okay. I wanted it to be remounted if needed, but he said it was completely fine and that it did not have to be fixed, touched up, or anything. Wait for the screws to fall off before he can redrill a new hole and mount a new screw? Well the screw fell off. So did my lip.

He said he can't repair it, but I showed my friend and he said he could help me. We're now going to try to use fiberglass to fix the hole and put a shit load of resin on there, then sadly have to paint the bottom of the lip black. We're also going to put clear cf resin on the cracks of the lip that are still intact... If anyone else has any opinions on how to add onto the fix please share. The lip was about $550, and being a student working two part time jobs it's really hard for me to just throw it away having it on for less than half a year.

My bumper now that the lip has fallen off..
http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/858699_10152565990180582_1793302482_o.jpg
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/856922_10152565990185582_1044051315_o.jpg
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/843905_10152565989690582_1317979944_o.jpg
The bumper was in perfect shape in those areas before the lip install. The lip was installed badly and loose since the very beginning, so it kept moving up and down since there were only 1 bolt on each side, and scraping against my bumper. I pointed this out to Andrew as well, and his response: "Oh that'll polish out". Yeah, so who's going to polish that out for me? -_-



The sideblades;
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/255845_10152060586405582_582169475_o.jpg
They were flimsy. Very flimsy. I understand it can be because of the way it was made, but install was an issue here imo... He installed the sideblades with about 4 bolts and nuts that came with the part, and 3-4 of his own screws, which had different heads. He did not use any double sided tape, which made it seem very flimsy in between the bolts. My sideblades always rattles against the car whenever someone's shoe or pants accident brush against it. This may be the case with a lot of these kind of parts, but I'm pretty sure it could have been a lot better if it were taped on so the parts in between the bolts are atleast connected to the car. I brought this up to Andrew and he said it's fine. He could have taped it but he thought the bolts were okay. I was obviously unhappy about it, but after the install of course he did not want to simply unbolt it just to add tape to reinforce it.


The rear lip was also installed pretty badly. There were gaps everywhere and the tape was peeling off already when I went to go pick up the car. I asked Andrew if he could install it any better and he said no. One corner of the lip was COMPLETELY off the car, the tape was there but could not hold it so the corner was just in the air. I showed this to Andrew, and he just pushed it back down and the tape held on for 2 seconds before the edge came flying up. He just shrugs and says "Well, bad fitment. What can you do". I told him to silicone it so it'll stay, there's no way I can accept that kind of install when the lip is already falling off. He said fine, come pick it up again in half an hour. I am also sure that the lip could have been fitted with no gaps, because I've seen a lot worse fitment on the rear lips of my previous Civic and the cheap shop that I brought it to installed it perfectly with only double sided tape and screws, no gaps at all. This one didn't even seem that bad.

Everything was also test fitted prior to install/paint, and Andrew said everything was okay. Clearly looking at it now, it's not.

Sorry for the long post, was just really choked today for almost destroying my $550 front lip... Sharing this in hopes that it won't happen to anyone else reading this. If any of you guys think your lip kit was installed badly and flimsy, take it to the shop right away and have them look at it and fix it. If they refuse to fix it like Lotus, then take it to another shop. Don't be stupid like me. And beware of this shop for lip kit installs. My friend who referred me said that his bumper was also similar to mine because the lip kept rubbing against it due to the install, which shouldn't be happening..

Now my car's looking pretty retarded with almost everything on the exterior done, except the front lip... sigh :(
http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/858495_10152566057665582_1024782352_o.jpg

[Energy]

I'm having body shop problems right now too so I can kind of relate :okay:

You don't mention anywhere in your post or I might have missed it but is the lip kit real?

Seems like pretty shitty service based on your side of the story.

[Limitless]

The front lip and rear spats are by Shine auto, and the sideblades are by Evo R. Both companies are pretty well known replicas, and have fairly good fitment. Sigh, hope you solve your bodyshop problems better than I was able to solve mine.

If anyone can recommend a good body shop please let me know lol, I just picked up my diffuser today and would like to get it installed properly, along with my front lip again

[Araaadi]

That really sucks, and that guy at the body shop sounds like a complete douche. I would of fought what he said and keep fighting that shop until he agreed to either buy me a new lip or fix the current one, then I would take it somewhere else for the installation. Most proper body shops guarantee their work for life.

[Energy]

Yeah seems weird that after 3 months its no longer their responsibility if the lip falls off through no fault of yours but because of their shoddy initial installation.

Just playing devil's advocate here for a moment but you mentioned that
So I leave, and 1.5 months later I went back to the shop. By this time I had scraped the lip pretty badly because of my ride height, and the two screws were half out and also angled now instead of being parallel to the ground like it was before.
The screws might have been installed properly but were moved because of you scraping the lip and that might have caused the lip to fall off eventually?


But then He took a look at it, tried to shake the lip, and then he said "No I can't do that because if I thread the screws in it will crack the lip. Wait for the screws to fall out and I will redrill a hole for you to mount a new screw in. I can't do that until it falls out". I asked if he was completely sure that it would hold, and he just said "Yeah of course". I was retarded and believed him.
He says wait for it to fall out?! :fulloffuck:

So he foresaw that it was eventually going to fall off, but was he expecting the tape to hold the lip without the screws?!

[Limitless]

@Araaadi I tried, we talked outside for a good half hour. At the end he kept repeating that he can't do anything because the screws weren't physically here for him to see, and because my car was daily driven. He also said that he can't guarantee any work and that no body shop can because there are conditions that they can't predict.. Which is complete bullshit

Yeah seems weird that after 3 months its no longer their responsibility if the lip falls off through no fault of yours but because of their shoddy initial installation.

Just playing devil's advocate here for a moment but you mentioned that

The screws might have been installed properly but were moved because of you scraping the lip and that might have caused the lip to fall off eventually?


But then
He says wait for it to fall out?! :fulloffuck:

So he foresaw that it was eventually going to fall off, but was he expecting the tape to hold the lip without the screws?!

Yeah, pretty much...

[sdubfid]

99 problems but a lip aint one

just get some friends together fix it up and install it yourself. I know money must be tight as a student driving a 370z so you can save a bundle and know that it's done to your standards.

[Limitless]

Yup going to buy the materials tomorrow and try to fix it, then make more mounting points with more nuts and bolts instead of just screws.. Hopefully that'll work out okay

[AVS_Racing]

well that's the thing with rep kits, they will not be perfect, so the panel gaps between bumper and lip is understandable unless you bolt it like every few inches which is not possible due to it being a CF piece it just doesn't flex as well as a polyurethane piece.

how many holes did your lip come with to bolt up to the bumper with? If there was none you can't really blame the shop.

Drilling or cutting CF is very difficult. Especially if you have to run bolts through them because its a rigid piece and any excess flex will cause that section to crack or even break, especially if you have super low ride height and scrape everywhere.

and the scrapes on your bumper left from the lip, its pretty much in the design of the lip if its mounted like that, a cf lip has no flex and its not supposed to be scraped, obviously there will be movement and rubbing between the parts, where else do you think the flex will go, the weakest section.

if you don't want your lip to fly off, glue it on, bolt it, then mold it onto your bumper

[Limitless]

well that's the thing with rep kits, they will not be perfect, so the panel gaps between bumper and lip is understandable unless you bolt it like every few inches which is not possible due to it being a CF piece it just doesn't flex as well as a polyurethane piece.
Understood, didn't think much about the PU vs fiberglass thing which I should have. I do think that they could have made it stick a bit better though with a heatgun for the tape, the little adhesion promotor thing that comes with the 3m tape and some more time. Not completely blaming them, but this is only for the front lip. The rear was fine once siliconed, but I had to actually ask them to silicone it. If I didn't ask he expected me to leave with it half off the bumper, without silicone.

how many holes did your lip come with to bolt up to the bumper with? If there was none you can't really blame the shop.
Front lip came with no holes. This is one of the reasons why I didn't want to try to install myself, because I was afraid to drill into cf. He only drilled one hole.

Drilling or cutting CF is very difficult. Especially if you have to run bolts through them because its a rigid piece and any excess flex will cause that section to crack or even break, especially if you have super low ride height and scrape everywhere.

and the scrapes on your bumper left from the lip, its pretty much in the design of the lip if its mounted like that, a cf lip has no flex and its not supposed to be scraped, obviously there will be movement and rubbing between the parts, where else do you think the flex will go, the weakest section.
I'm not great on bodywork, so I'm not 100% sure on this; but if mounted securely shouldn't they be little or no movement at all with the lip?

if you don't want your lip to fly off, glue it on, bolt it, then mold it onto your bumper
So you're saying unless I glue it, bolt it on and then mold it a lip will always fly off? Not too sure how molding cf onto a bumper would look..

[AVS_Racing]

that's the thing since your piece is cf and it doesn't flex, it maybe that it doesn't allow him to flex the piece enough to mount it up perfectly with your bumper. the advantages of poly is that you can stretch the piece or bend it with heat, but you can't do that with carbon or else you risk cracking.

if he used self tapping screws its most likely that your piece didn't have any holes or locations close to the factory mounting points or holes, that's why he had to use self taping screws.

[asr]

@limitless Asked the if they could just screw it back in on the spot or fix it,they said no because it will crack the lip (pretty bull..)

Sorry to hear that. It is too late to mention that using screws with bolts or rivets to make your lip stable is the key if you worry about the lip fitting issue.
Oh, btw, check both of your front tires to see if any screws on your tires.

I don't know how ICBC will say for the lip off. Your lip was bolt on the car, will the insurance cover your damage if you have evidence to prove the lip drop off automatically? But I think 120km will be tough for you to debate with ICBC. You can try to call ICBC.


Even though I don't know the size and shape of those 2 screws they used, honestly 2 screws to hold a piece of light weight lip on highway is obviously not that good.

Wet CF is a non-stretch and non-flex material. I am not surprised that your lip fell of under 120KMs per hour because the down force is too much pushing to your loosen lip. Did you suddenly accelerate the car and release the gas pedal right away?

Main reason of falling off is loosen. Even though CF is light piece, 2 screws can not hold the lip even you have a perfect fitment lip. Big washer and bolts is important to let the lip stay on the car.

I understand drilling cf is like a pain in the ass, but they can still do it if using proper tools and ways. Drilling CF parts need duct tapes cover the cf and heating up the cf a bit, using a sharp and new step drill with low RPM. You should be good on that. I have drill and cutting cf by myself couple times. Doing slowly and carefully is also very important. It takes long time and body feel really uncomfortable touching with CF dust.

[asr]

So you're saying unless I glue it, bolt it on and then mold it a lip will always fly off? Not too sure how molding cf onto a bumper would look..
Mold is the best but it takes time and $$$.
If you don't mind with couple holes on the bumper, go with black color rivet. Very secure

[melloman]

When I had someone TRY to break into my Audi and completely fuck up my door handle/key hole.. All work was done by "Donn Dean Collision" in Burnaby. I actually signed papers that guaranteed ALL work for the lifetime of the car. So if the door started to even sag/squeak or anything, I could take it back.

It's a shitty deal that you got fucked Limitless, next time get something in writing? Or just walk away and not deal with these asshats.

[VR6GTI]

When I had someone TRY to break into my Audi and completely fuck up my door handle/key hole.. All work was done by "Donn Dean Collision" in Burnaby. I actually signed papers that guaranteed ALL work for the lifetime of the car. So if the door started to even sag/squeak or anything, I could take it back.

It's a shitty deal that you got fucked Limitless, next time get something in writing? Or just walk away and not deal with these asshats.
I'm sure that's not the case, unless they replaced the door and hinges :suspicious:

You can't put all the blame on the shop because you accepted that the work was good when you left the shop and only brought up the problems AFTER you had scraped the lip. Why he would say wait until it falls off is very strange. If he did say that he should split the cost of the lip of with you and have it installed elsewhere. If he is blaming the 3m tape he should be talking to his 3m rep and looking for some kick back from them but i really doubt it was the tapes the fault.

[VR6GTI]

I'm having body shop problems right now too so I can kind of relate :okay:

What problems are you having?

[Energy]

^ http://www.revscene.net/forums/680715-question-about-body-shop-paint-standards.html#post8164802

Sorry to thread jack OP. just this one post.

[Phil@rise]

3m tape is fine but not for holding on a lip subject to wind resistance and impact. I've installed dozens of lips over the years and never had one fall off but I dont use 3m tape for the job I use panel adhesive. Its a permanent solution that will lead to paint damage on the bumper underneath but as your pictures prove even a 3m tape and screw job leads to paint damage when its not intended to.

[GabAlmighty]

Shoulda gone to a second body shop for a 2nd opinion and brought that "assesment" back to original shop.

[monkeywrench]

I've dealt with Lotus Autobody via phone once. Their knowledge of work isn't the greatest. I would never bring my own personal car there or recommend anyone to for body work unfortunately. A little harsh but I hope they learn from their mistakes.

[Spidey]

how much did you pay for the install? and was it cash?

[hkRicer]

Wow, your car look so much better with that lip. Good luck with everything though

[Limitless]

Sorry if this post is a bit should messy, posting from my phone on my break at work lol

@avs_racing Thank you for the informative posts, sorry if I came off slightly like an ass, I do appreciate the insight. As for the factory mounting points, the bumper is bare so any lip that gets put on would have to have new holes drilled in. Not too sure where a factory mounting point would be there or if I'm just misunderstanding

@asr Thanks for the information, I'm sure that will come in handy when I try to reinstall it in a few days. I don't think I will go through ICBC with
this, my deductible is $500 and the lip itself was about $550 :/

@melloman Yup lesson learned, will definitely get something in writing next time, though I'm sure even with a receipt they still would not have done anything atleast I would have a few more options

@vr6gti I did bring up the bad fitment and the tape falling off right when I picked up my car after the install. But yes I am to blame too for being stupid and actually believing what he said. Andrew wouldn't agree to anything, not even to repair it enough so I can atleast reuse the lip. Definitely
isnt willing to even split the costs of a new one :/

@gabalmighty Yeah I really should have, lesson learned.

@monkeywrench Andrew was pretty stubborn and kept pushing the blame away from himself, though he didn't push it onto me much. I doubt he thinks he's the cause at all, so I doubt he'll learn..

@blueg2 I paid $150 for the install of the front lip and sides, yes it was a cash deal so he didnt give me a receipt even though I asked for one. You get what you pay for I guess..

@hkricer I agree, thanks man :/
Posted via RS Mobile

[snails]

put simply,if you want it done right,do it yourself, me and my friends do all the work on our cars,and if it had to be done by someone else we are usually there helping with what we can, of course its nice just dropping a car off and picking it up when its done but at the end of the day you will not know the quality till something wrong happens

[VR6GTI]

@vr6gti I did bring up the bad fitment and the tape falling off right when I picked up my car after the install. But yes I am to blame too for being stupid and actually believing what he said. Andrew wouldn't agree to anything, not even to repair it enough so I can atleast reuse the lip. Definitely
isnt willing to even split the costs of a new one :/
Posted via RS Mobile
Oh i see, well then that sucks. Is he the manager? If not i would speak to someone else about the situation.

[freakshow]

put simply,if you want it done right,do it yourself, me and my friends do all the work on our cars

Easy to say if you *can* do it all. But if you can't, then it's a matter of you get what you pay for.

[snails]

Easy to say if you *can* do it all. But if you can't, then it's a matter of you get what you pay for.


you would be surprised how quick you learn when you start doing something, we arnt talking about building an engine here.

it never hurts to ask for some help either, a while back some of you may remember a girl on the forum asking for help with where to get an oil change because she didnt know how, i pm'd her had her bring everything i listed and showed her everything from jacking a car up to the filling and didnt even charge her for it, now she knows how all cuz someone felt like helping.


just a thought

[monkeywrench]

Not to be harsh but it is a bit mind boggling why anyone would bring their car to a shop like that. I know of a $200,000 car that went to that shop for repairs when clearly they have no idea how to repair anything on it.

[?NR]

is this the same Andrew from the old Park Collision?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Yodamaster]

I'll never understand why people use double sided tape as the main method to install body panels. If you are planning on having a lip installed for a long period of time, it would be best to make sure that the install is permanent.

That being said, screws and double sided tape are not the best options out there, even rivets would be better suited to this kind of part. The most reliable way of fastening a part to a bumper (and still being able to take it off) would have to be properly sized bolts, nuts, and washers along the length of the lip. Double sided tape should be used to make sure chafing doesn't happen between the upper portions of the lip and the bumper, as it did on yours, not to hold it on.

Unless you told them to only use double sided tape, they should have used an alternate method of installing the lip, running two screws at either end is fucking idiotic. Seeing that your lip mounting point is at the very bottom, rivets would have been a far more secure way of attaching it without having bolt heads sticking out from under the bumper.

[E60_M5]

If you get another lip, I would recommend using double sided tape to hold the front lip onto the bumper where you want it. Then using a chaulking gun fill the underside of the lip where it meets the bumper with urethane adhesive every 12 inch or so. This is a permanent bond and if you want to remove it later on, your bumper will have to be sanded down by a bodyshop and refinished.

Again, the double sided tape is only used so that the lip doesnt move around while the urethane cures up.

You can get this urethane at Lordco.
Welcome to Pro Form Products (http://www.proformproducts.com/en/products/info/?product=117&category=24)

[jpark]

i have 8 screws holding up my lip, and i am about same ride height as you, or might be even lower

no problems so far, sounds like a lack of screws caused this.. sorry to hear :/

[asr]

@limitless: If you have any difficulty to install the lip on, I can help you out at your place with my tools. Also fixing the cf is not easy, it is pretty hard to let the fiber glass stay on with the cf. Also you need higher sand grip paper to sand all the reinforce plastic and clear coat completely.

[Limitless]

@snails I want to, especially if it saves me money lol. I
The only reason I dropped it off at a shop is because I wasn't comfortablr with drilling into carbon fiber, and the rear had to be painted so I thought why not get the sides installed too while I was at it. I put too much money into just the front lip, so this time I think I'm just going to try to install it myself to save money

@vr6 Yes I believe hes the manager

@monkeywrench I agree. I heard nothing about the shop when I left my car there except for my one friends good experiencegrtting his lip iinstalled there, except now his bumper is scratched as well like mine. Lotus was working on a lambo when I dropped my car off so thst only gave me an even bigger false sense or security

@NR! Im not sure
Posted via RS Mobile

[Limitless]

I'll never understand why people use double sided tape as the main method to install body panels. If you are planning on having a lip installed for a long period of time, it would be best to make sure that the install is permanent.

That being said, screws and double sided tape are not the best options out there, even rivets would be better suited to this kind of part. The most reliable way of fastening a part to a bumper (and still being able to take it off) would have to be properly sized bolts, nuts, and washers along the length of the lip. Double sided tape should be used to make sure chafing doesn't happen between the upper portions of the lip and the bumper, as it did on yours, not to hold it on.

Unless you told them to only use double sided tape, they should have used an alternate method of installing the lip, running two screws at either end is fucking idiotic. Seeing that your lip mounting point is at the very bottom, rivets would have been a far more secure way of attaching it without having bolt heads sticking out from under the bumper.
I would much rather have my lip installed permanently if it meant that it would not lead to it falling off on the hwy. I'll look into that, thank you. I agree it was very idiotic, and that Andrew actually believes it was an okay way to mount it even after my lip fell off...

If you get another lip, I would recommend using double sided tape to hold the front lip onto the bumper where you want it. Then using a chaulking gun fill the underside of the lip where it meets the bumper with urethane adhesive every 12 inch or so. This is a permanent bond and if you want to remove it later on, your bumper will have to be sanded down by a bodyshop and refinished.

Again, the double sided tape is only used so that the lip doesnt move around while the urethane cures up.

You can get this urethane at Lordco.
Welcome to Pro Form Products (http://www.proformproducts.com/en/products/info/?product=117&category=24)
I'll look into this as well, thanks!

i have 8 screws holding up my lip, and i am about same ride height as you, or might be even lower

no problems so far, sounds like a lack of screws caused this.. sorry to hear :/
Yup, definitely lack of screws imo..

@limitless: If you have any difficulty to install the lip on, I can help you out at your place with my tools. Also fixing the cf is not easy, it is pretty hard to let the fiber glass stay on with the cf. Also you need higher sand grip paper to sand all the reinforce plastic and clear coat completely.
Thanks, I'll shoot you a PM later if I have trouble installing it! Agh really.. I hope everything goes okay with the repair sigh. My friend is going to be doing most of the work and I'm just going to be helping out and learning along the way

[dared3vil0]

Limitless, I had a couple good experiences with a body shop in burnaby, I know it's a long drive for you , But pm me if you want more info.

[mx5nate]

He doesn't live in richmond. It won't be much of a drive for him.
Posted via RS Mobile

[falcon]

So I skimmed the post because i didn't feel like reading an essay but from the jist of it, you saw problems from the get go, and didn't bring it up and do something about it? Falls off months later? No one to blame but yourself. I would have brought the issue up immediately and dealt with the manager. The rub marks are of course going to happen when you install a lip on your bumper. It's happened to my cars before and it's part of adding something to a painted surface. Unless the entire lip was bolted/glued on it will rub like that, and let me guess if they would have bolted it on with more hardware/glue, you'd be mad that they glued onto your paint, right?

[monkeywrench]

is this the same Andrew from the old Park Collision?
Posted via RS Mobile

That is correct

[inv4zn]

So I skimmed the post because i didn't feel like reading an essay but from the jist of it, you saw problems from the get go, and didn't bring it up and do something about it? Falls off months later? No one to blame but yourself. I would have brought the issue up immediately and dealt with the manager. The rub marks are of course going to happen when you install a lip on your bumper. It's happened to my cars before and it's part of adding something to a painted surface. Unless the entire lip was bolted/glued on it will rub like that, and let me guess if they would have bolted it on with more hardware/glue, you'd be mad that they glued onto your paint, right?

So, by your logic, if you hired and paid a professional to do a job for you because you weren't sure you could do it yourself, and he reassured you that he did a good job, it'll be completely your fault when it turns out he actually did a terrible job? And you'd have nobody to blame but yourself when he refuses to take even the slightest bit of responsibility and pride for his workmanship?

:fulloffuck: wtf?

The point is the shop told him it was ok. Because the OP went there, to do a job for him that he couldn't do. That's like me blaming you for going to a bad doctor when you couldn't diagnose yourself.

Get off his back.

[snails]

So I skimmed the post because i didn't feel like reading an essay but from the jist of it, you saw problems from the get go, and didn't bring it up and do something about it? Falls off months later? No one to blame but yourself. I would have brought the issue up immediately and dealt with the manager. The rub marks are of course going to happen when you install a lip on your bumper. It's happened to my cars before and it's part of adding something to a painted surface. Unless the entire lip was bolted/glued on it will rub like that, and let me guess if they would have bolted it on with more hardware/glue, you'd be mad that they glued onto your paint, right?


wait... so he paid someone to mount it... it shouldn't have started to come off in the first place, he brought it back with concern and he was sent on his way... that dosnt sound like his fault, if it was done right the first time, it wouldn't come off in the first place :suspicious:

[Holeshot]

lack of screws, lack of tape, lack of skills for install, lack of time for install, and a lip that doesn't fit well.
a bad combo. some bodyshops will not install aftermarket bodykits or they will but will not guarentee it due to quality and fit of the parts.
Ive install a few ground FX from Roush on to Mustangs and they fit perfect and ive never had one fall off or scratch the bumper like yours did.
You get what you pay for.

[StylinRed]

Im kind of with Falcon here


The day I went to go pick up my car after the kit had been installed, I noticed things wrong with every single piece.

he noticed problems from the get go but didn't do anything about it he bares some responsibility


Having said that though a shop should be responsible for it's work, after all that's their bread and butter and most of all their namesake and as we know your name is everything (chris dorner)

[prelude_prince]

If this is in fact Andrew from the old Park Collision. I don't know what to say.

I myself had quite a lot of work done on a few cars from Andrew and Tommy back at Park Collision days (5+ years ago) and the jobs were all very well done, even after many years I didn't notice any shoddy work and I had no complaints.

[monkeywrench]

If this is in fact Andrew from the old Park Collision. I don't know what to say.

I myself had quite a lot of work done on a few cars from Andrew and Tommy back at Park Collision days (5+ years ago) and the jobs were all very well done, even after many years I didn't notice any shoddy work and I had no complaints.

I've never dealt with him personally but from stories I hear, it seems that every shop he's been working at, has been brought down and closed since he's been employed. I believe he used to be at Hugh auto body before as well.

Funny enough, I've been told he doesn't get complaints either

[jing]

My lip is held on by about 8 screws and it's nearly come off a few times. Not from scraping or anything though, more so unavoidable road debris
Posted via RS Mobile

[prelude_prince]

I've never dealt with him personally but from stories I hear, it seems that every shop he's been working at, has been brought down and closed since he's been employed. I believe he used to be at Hugh auto body before as well.

Funny enough, I've been told he doesn't get complaints either

Ouch. Yeah I've been out of the scene in Van. Only dealt with Andrew back at Park Collision, and yeah as stated, had no troubles like OP is having (my cars and some friends whom I refered to). I've been fuc ked over by some shops before and I always make it my motion to let people around me know their shit practices so they don't get fucked over as well. I have quite a lot of dirt on some places muahaha. But Andrew was always cool to me so I actually refered friends and family there often.

Also I never confirmed it but I always assumed Andrew was part-owner back at Park.

[SkunkWorks]

When I had someone TRY to break into my Audi and completely fuck up my door handle/key hole.. All work was done by "Donn Dean Collision" in Burnaby. I actually signed papers that guaranteed ALL work for the lifetime of the car. So if the door started to even sag/squeak or anything, I could take it back.

On the contrary, I had quite a negative experience at Donn Dean. Ended up having to bring the car back multiple times for paint runs, missed sections of clear coat, and dust/dirt in the paint. Yes they redid the issues when I pointed them out, but you would think they'd look over their work before handing the keys and have a certain quality they'd adhere to after multiple returns. Haven't been back since.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/533139-autobody-shop-woes.html

[Limitless]

Im kind of with Falcon here




he noticed problems from the get go but didn't do anything about it he bares some responsibility.


Having said that though a shop should be responsible for it's work, after all that's their bread and butter and most of all their namesake and as we know your name is everything (chris dorner)

I did tell him everything that i had an issue with but other than siliconing the rear spats he wasn't willing to fix anything else, becsuse he didnt find any of those issues i had poined out to be a legitimate problem in his eyes, no matter how I put it. I didnt aggressively force him to fix anything but i did express how unhappy i was. Only reason i didnt force him was because i thought that if we had a good relationship then he woulf be more willing to fix any problems that came up later
But apparently not
Posted via RS Mobile

[Lomac]

Just to play devil's advocate here... Three months after installing a front lip, I'm surprised at any shop that would offer any sort of guarantee on it. To look at it from the shop's point of view, you could have hung the lip on a concrete barrier while parking and ripped the screws part way out in the process. This could have caused the lip to fall off while at speed. (Hell, I don't even have a front lip on my car and my front bumper rubs on pretty much everything I come across. I'm positive any sort of lip I'd put on would be torn off within a week. :lol)

BTW, I'm not saying this happened; it's merely a view that a body shop may take.

It's one thing to warranty body work or a paint job as it's pretty easy to tell when something is a result of poor workmanship or from the driver's lack of judgment. However, a front lip is subject to a lot of things and can be easily affected by the smallest of them all.


That said, two screws and a patch of 3M tape does seem a little sketchy...

[AVS_Racing]

btw I've had my fenders shaved at Lotus, and I've not had any problems so far. and in terms of warranty unless you know the owner real well or its under ICBC theres pretty much nothing you can do about it. Considering you are scraping your lip all day every day, it falling off eventually or at least having some sort of damage is pretty much expected.

[Limitless]

So I skimmed the post because i didn't feel like reading an essay but from the jist of it, you saw problems from the get go, and didn't bring it up and do something about it? Falls off months later? No one to blame but yourself. I would have brought the issue up immediately and dealt with the manager. The rub marks are of course going to happen when you install a lip on your bumper. It's happened to my cars before and it's part of adding something to a painted surface. Unless the entire lip was bolted/glued on it will rub like that, and let me guess if they would have bolted it on with more hardware/glue, you'd be mad that they glued onto your paint, right?

There's only 2 people that I ever see working there, one is Andrew who deals with practically everything and another one is this older fellow who I only see deal with paperwork/computer things. The older fellow didn't seem to know anything, he just told me to talk to Andrew about any concerns I had.
But no, if he would have asked me if I was okay with siliconing/gluing I would have 0 problem at all. I actually asked him to glue the rear, and I would have preferred if he would have glued the front. I should have asked for that though, admitting fault on my part. But I would assume that if he mounted a lip and say that it's okay, that it would not fly off.

Just to play devil's advocate here... Three months after installing a front lip, I'm surprised at any shop that would offer any sort of guarantee on it. To look at it from the shop's point of view, you could have hung the lip on a concrete barrier while parking and ripped the screws part way out in the process. This could have caused the lip to fall off while at speed. (Hell, I don't even have a front lip on my car and my front bumper rubs on pretty much everything I come across. I'm positive any sort of lip I'd put on would be torn off within a week. :lol)

BTW, I'm not saying this happened; it's merely a view that a body shop may take.

It's one thing to warranty body work or a paint job as it's pretty easy to tell when something is a result of poor workmanship or from the driver's lack of judgment. However, a front lip is subject to a lot of things and can be easily affected by the smallest of them all.


That said, two screws and a patch of 3M tape does seem a little sketchy...

Thank you. I understand where you are coming from, it's not fair for me to push all the blame onto the bodyshop, but I think they should have at least taken some responsibility for the way they mounted it.

btw I've had my fenders shaved at Lotus, and I've not had any problems so far. and in terms of warranty unless you know the owner real well or its under ICBC theres pretty much nothing you can do about it. Considering you are scraping your lip all day every day, it falling off eventually or at least having some sort of damage is pretty much expected.
Yeah, it's completely up to the shop for what they want to do after payment has been made. I know that I pretty much won't be able to get anything from them or anything else simply because of the way the situation is... The shop doesn't think it's their fault, and it's not worth it to make an ICBC claim. Thought about small claims but that apparently takes 2 years or something and $550 is a pretty small amount..? I am not scraping my lip everyday though, I hardly scrape my lip at all after I had it checked by him. I'm not actually that low..

To get things clear;
-I have NOT scraped the lip at all since I took my car out of storage a week or two ago. I do NOT normally scrape because I know what I can clear and what I cannot
-I got the lip checked by him and I asked more than twice if it was okay to keep running. Since then I have NOT scraped the lip hard in any way, and if I had it was only a handful of times all of which were VERY minor scrapes. I only ran the car for a few weeks after I had the lip checked, and within those weeks I have definitely not scraped more than 8 times. None of them were hard at all, just slow (~1km/h, no aggressive contact) and light grazing (yes I also realize that this will affect the fitment of the lip)
-The thing is he checked the lip and told me to run it and come back only when the two screws fell off. Well the screws fell off on the highway, I know this for a fact. The lip also fell off with it.

Seems to be a lot of repeating false accusations... I do not scrape my lip often at all.

[Bender Unit]

Didn't you take your bumper off while in storage?
Swapping headlights in your Member's Journal thread
Was the Lip installed or not?

[Limitless]

Yes I took my bumper off during storage, I hung it on this little coat rack thing on wheels that I had. The lip was still on the bumper, the lip and the bumper both never touched the ground. Went straight off my car and straight onto the coat rack thing where it was hung up. I made sure that the lip didn't touch anything when it was on the rack either

[Limitless]

In case anyone is wondering what's going on... I bought some fiberglass repair resin today and my friend, who's a life saver, helped me put on a few coats and the hole is now covered. Going to sand it down smooth tomorrow and then figure out if I want to paint it or just leave it... Then comes the issue of how to remount it so it won't fall off. For now though I am super happy that the lip is saved, incredibly incredibly incredibly grateful that my friend was able to help me fix it. The scratches will still be at the bottom, but it won't be easily seen unless the car is on a lift or something hopefully. I also won't have to spend another few hundred to buy a new lip
http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/861369_10152568774880582_523625226_o.jpg

[dared3vil0]

Limitless, I'd paint it a generic "filling" primer (the kind that fills in minor scratches/blemishes etc) and plastidip it matte black, Then put two coats of silver metalizer on it, Then 3 coats of Gloss clear. Just an idea.

[Splinter]

By this time I had scraped the lip pretty badly because of my ride height

Seems to be a lot of repeating false accusations... I do not scrape my lip often at all.

so... yea

[extracrunchie]

I installed my ASPEC Lip kit myself and majority of it was with 3m tape and a couple of screws from factory.

But I was real careful with installing and make sure to rub alcohol on my bumper so the 3m can adhere and bond.

Hopefully you get some justice.

[ilvtofu]

Yes I took my bumper off during storage, I hung it on this little coat rack thing on wheels that I had. The lip was still on the bumper, the lip and the bumper both never touched the ground. Went straight off my car and straight onto the coat rack thing where it was hung up. I made sure that the lip didn't touch anything when it was on the rack either

If you really had doubts about the way the lip was mounted and you had the bumper off, why wouldn't you reinforce the way it was mounted just to cover your own ass. I know it's a little "would've, could've, should've", but I would've seen that as a really convenient opportunity to address a known issue and honestly would've taken little to no time/effort.

[Limitless]

Limitless, I'd paint it a generic "filling" primer (the kind that fills in minor scratches/blemishes etc) and plastidip it matte black, Then put two coats of silver metalizer on it, Then 3 coats of Gloss clear. Just an idea.
Thanks for the idea :) I'm still not sure on what to do about it but appreciate the suggestion. Might just leave it since all the damage is on the bottom of the lip and you don't see it when it's on the car..

so... yea
I scraped it when I first got it installed, because it was lower than just my stock bumper. Maybe I wasn't too clear on my last few posts, sorry. It was scraped pretty hard when I first got it, which is why I brought it back to the shop to get him to check it out to see if it is still mounted on okay. He said it was, and there's nothing he could have done about it and to come back if the screws fall out. After I got him to check it, I have not scraped it often at all. Some people are making it sound like I scrape every single day, when I don't. I have scraped hard on it, but that was within the first few months, and before I got it checked. After the day I brought it back to the shop, it was on the road for a few weeks before it was garaged. During that time, I have barely scraped it at all.

I installed my ASPEC Lip kit myself and majority of it was with 3m tape and a couple of screws from factory.

But I was real careful with installing and make sure to rub alcohol on my bumper so the 3m can adhere and bond.

Hopefully you get some justice.
I'm not sure if my bumper was cleaned or not, but when I had previous lips installed on previous cars I would see at least 2 screws on each side, and tape all around. Not this time :/ Thanks man

If you really had doubts about the way the lip was mounted and you had the bumper off, why wouldn't you reinforce the way it was mounted just to cover your own ass. I know it's a little "would've, could've, should've", but I would've seen that as a really convenient opportunity to address a known issue and honestly would've taken little to no time/effort.

I really had doubts but I dismissed them after I went back to get Andrew to check it, and he said it was completely fine. That was stupid of me I guess, to trust a shady bodyshop when it was clearly not okay, I know that now. Back then though, I didn't have a lot of experience with mounting lips (I still don't) and I thought that if a bodyshop who has mounted millions of lips said it would hold, then it should hold.
Would've, could've, should've, I know that now. My bumpers pretty easy to take off, this time if I try to mount it myself I will be taking it off and putting locking nuts behind the bolts

[epicbeardman]

should have PM'd arrash. that dude could has MAD duct taping skills.

[blakgtp]

I know money must be tight as a student driving a 370z.

I chuckled.

[Limitless]

I chuckled.

Care to elaborate?
Posted via RS Mobile

[BrRsn]

How are you going to reattach it now, limitless?

I'm not sure how the bottom of a 370Z bumper looks but if you got a good surface to work with don't use screws. Do yourself a favor and get a rivet gun -- all you'll need is some 3M tape (as before) and rivets to really lock it all together.

Usually, for any body panels I just put on 3M tape, and put rivets/screws through it so it compresses the tape between the 2 surfaces and makes it super strong/tight

[westopher]

I didn't read the whole thing, but I'll add a couple of discontinued pennies. It sucks the install wasn't great, but, if they were going to go with a sturdier way of doing it, it would have taken a lot more work, and in the process you would have a mangled bumper if you ever went sans lip. When they said thy wouldn't tighten the screws, next time say, I don't care, tighten them. You got screwed by some lazy staff, but you have to protect yourself too, and you should have been smart enough to know that when your lip thats held with 2 screws have no threads left its not going to be good. Its like if a shop saw your lug nuts were loose and gave you some stupid excuse, and you went on your way not worrying about it.
The real thing here is, your car is low, and you got a big front lip. Your front got lower. Anyone with experience driving low cars knows, lips are disposable. They are always gonna get dragged, and gonna scrape through eventually, and I guarantee that wear through the lip was probably 90% worn there before that lip got dropped off. Sometimes with parts you gotta be willing to say fuck it with them and just fix it with zip ties or buy a new one. Nice to see you already got it figured out and saved it though.:thumbsup:

[Limitless]

How are you going to reattach it now, limitless?

I'm not sure how the bottom of a 370Z bumper looks but if you got a good surface to work with don't use screws. Do yourself a favor and get a rivet gun -- all you'll need is some 3M tape (as before) and rivets to really lock it all together.

Usually, for any body panels I just put on 3M tape, and put rivets/screws through it so it compresses the tape between the 2 surfaces and makes it super strong/tight

Still trying to figure that out :/ I'm not too sure but I want to silicone or glue this thing onto my bumper. I am thinking about 3m taping it, then putting silicone in the gaps and also using nuts and bolts on the corners and also bolt it from underneath onto the bumper as well. I have never used rivets before but it seems like a number of people keep recommending them so I will spend some time tomorrow looking into it :) I am just really worried about drilling into the cf, last thing I need is my lip to crack some more :s

I didn't read the whole thing, but I'll add a couple of discontinued pennies. It sucks the install wasn't great, but, if they were going to go with a sturdier way of doing it, it would have taken a lot more work, and in the process you would have a mangled bumper if you ever went sans lip. When they said thy wouldn't tighten the screws, next time say, I don't care, tighten them. You got screwed by some lazy staff, but you have to protect yourself too, and you should have been smart enough to know that when your lip thats held with 2 screws have no threads left its not going to be good. Its like if a shop saw your lug nuts were loose and gave you some stupid excuse, and you went on your way not worrying about it.
The real thing here is, your car is low, and you got a big front lip. Your front got lower. Anyone with experience driving low cars knows, lips are disposable. They are always gonna get dragged, and gonna scrape through eventually, and I guarantee that wear through the lip was probably 90% worn there before that lip got dropped off. Sometimes with parts you gotta be willing to say fuck it with them and just fix it with zip ties or buy a new one. Nice to see you already got it figured out and saved it though.:thumbsup:

I was hoping for the lip to last, and after seeing the results of the lip dragging through the ground, the lip was only about 20% worn (minus the damage from the lip falling off). I guess it's really thick, because after being dragged on the ground from 120km/h till 0, one side had completely sheered off but the other side had about 10% or 20% of material left holding it together. My scrapes from speedbumps, compared to this was next to nothing. I did fiberglass the damage and sanded it down so now it's sturdy again :) What I thought were hard scrapes turned out to be not too much damage to the lip itself. Hopefully now if I can find a way to mount it on sturdy, it'll last me for a long time. I don't have the money to keep buying new lips :okay: Thank you for the advice though, lesson well learned

[kouki_monster]

@blueg2 I paid $150 for the install of the front lip and sides, yes it was a cash deal so he didnt give me a receipt even though I asked for one. You get what you pay for I guess..

Posted via RS Mobile

Not to be a dick or anything but there's your problem lol. You buy a 24k car, I would hope that you would spend over $150 to get two pretty big aesthetic components on your car installed. I'm sure this is redundant now but spending a bit more could have definitely saved the headache, I wouldn't even bother going back to the shop to dispute with the cash deal you made with them.

Love the car and the route of mods you went with it though and hope everything ends well. Definitely feel for you since I had a front bumper painted / installed by a shop through a cheap cash deal and they ended up scratching my passenger fender a bit during install, but again I didn't even bother disputing or anything since I knew what I was getting into with the price I was paying

[BrRsn]

Still trying to figure that out :/ I'm not too sure but I want to silicone or glue this thing onto my bumper. I am thinking about 3m taping it, then putting silicone in the gaps and also using nuts and bolts on the corners and also bolt it from underneath onto the bumper as well. I have never used rivets before but it seems like a number of people keep recommending them so I will spend some time tomorrow looking into it :) I am just really worried about drilling into the cf, last thing I need is my lip to crack some more :s



I was hoping for the lip to last, and after seeing the results of the lip dragging through the ground, the lip was only about 20% worn (minus the damage from the lip falling off). I guess it's really thick, because after being dragged on the ground from 120km/h till 0, one side had completely sheered off but the other side had about 10% or 20% of material left holding it together. My scrapes from speedbumps, compared to this was next to nothing. I did fiberglass the damage and sanded it down so now it's sturdy again :) What I thought were hard scrapes turned out to be not too much damage to the lip itself. Hopefully now if I can find a way to mount it on sturdy, it'll last me for a long time. I don't have the money to keep buying new lips :okay: Thank you for the advice though, lesson well learned

rivets are like a nut and washer without the two parts. you wouldn't have to squeeze a socket in behind your bumper. all you do is drill holes, use a rivet gun to put in the rivet and it becomes more or less permanent and shouldn't work its way out like a screw. also the head of a rivet is pretty small whereas a nut and washer would stick out a lot and be scraped.



sorry for retardesque grammar ... damn phone

[VR6GTI]

Not to be a dick or anything but there's your problem lol. You buy a 24k car, I would hope that you would spend over $150 to get two pretty big aesthetic components on your car installed.
You cant really blame him if the shop quoted him $150 to install the parts properly, what was he suppose to do say he is willing to pay more? Unless he was quoted like $300 and tried beating him down on the price.

[blakgtp]

Care to elaborate?
Posted via RS Mobile

simply stating that If one can afford a 370z, money can't be all that tight.

[prelude_prince]

You cant really blame him if the shop quoted him $150 to install the parts properly, what was he suppose to do say he is willing to pay more? Unless he was quoted like $300 and tried beating him down on the price.

lol what. am I fu cking old or something? $150 is cheap now to install a lip now? How much are you guys paying to install a lip nowadays ? :X

edit oh wait, I see 150 for the lip AND sides. Yeah that's pretty cheap ;x

[boibuddha]

For the $150 you spent, you couldn't be expecting more than a couple hours of work put into your car.

Keep in mind that it that it took more than an hour to remove and replace my front OEM lip:
- remove front bumper (to access mounting hardware)
- R&R the 9-10 nuts & bolts using hand tools
- replace the bumper and line it back up

The MAIN question of this is did you want a permanent install?

If you weren't asked, a tape and screw install is the least damaging way to install the lip (body shop protecting themselves so you can't claim that they butchered your bumper). It does sound like the mounting hardware was inadequate though.

Rivets are better than self-tapping screws (2mm tall threads) but only minutely. The only advantage I can see is the option to R&R the lip multiple times without damaging the mounting hole further. The screws will hold onto the plastic bumper just was well as the rivets if not better.

Even if you wanted a proper permanent install, there are numerous steps that would have to be followed (and $150 couldn't buy, plus damage to the bumpers):
- R&R of the front and rear bumper (~2h)
- Determining where to drill/how many holes to mount the lips (30m) (This is critical when dealing with brittle materials!)
- Drilling & mounting the lips (~2h)
- Mounting the skirts (1.5h)

The loose skirt issue is due to the quality of the parts, period. The shop added screws because they felt the manufacturer's mounting hardware was insufficient. The side skirts of the EK civic are held on with 4 clips each side and a couple of screw clips. Even with those screws removed, the skirts were on there pretty solidly.

I am in no way involved with the body shop in question, I am looking at the situation as a shop owner.

- Re-install the "scraped" lip (which could have warped the mounting hole where the screw was holding and detached from the tape)? Depends on the owner.
- Half the cost of a $600 lip and hours of my time for a $150 job? No way.
- Repair the lip and remount it? Probably not.


Shitty situation, but at the end of the day it comes down to "You gotta pay to play".
You could save yourself some coin by R&R your bumpers yourself (~2h worth of work, depending on the car). I like what you have done to the car. Best of luck to you.

[Eff-1]

simply stating that If one can afford a 370z, money can't be all that tight.

A fully modded 370z AND a winter beater EG civic :thumbs:

[GG]

OWNED



:badpokerface::fullofwin::ahwow::nicethread:

[Limitless]

simply stating that If one can afford a 370z, money can't be all that tight.
Ah, okay lol just didn't really understand your post earlier


For the $150 you spent, you couldn't be expecting more than a couple hours of work put into your car.

Keep in mind that it that it took more than an hour to remove and replace my front OEM lip:
- remove front bumper (to access mounting hardware)
- R&R the 9-10 nuts & bolts using hand tools
- replace the bumper and line it back up

The MAIN question of this is did you want a permanent install?

If you weren't asked, a tape and screw install is the least damaging way to install the lip (body shop protecting themselves so you can't claim that they butchered your bumper). It does sound like the mounting hardware was inadequate though.

Rivets are better than self-tapping screws (2mm tall threads) but only minutely. The only advantage I can see is the option to R&R the lip multiple times without damaging the mounting hole further. The screws will hold onto the plastic bumper just was well as the rivets if not better.

Even if you wanted a proper permanent install, there are numerous steps that would have to be followed (and $150 couldn't buy, plus damage to the bumpers):
- R&R of the front and rear bumper (~2h)
- Determining where to drill/how many holes to mount the lips (30m) (This is critical when dealing with brittle materials!)
- Drilling & mounting the lips (~2h)
- Mounting the skirts (1.5h)

The loose skirt issue is due to the quality of the parts, period. The shop added screws because they felt the manufacturer's mounting hardware was insufficient. The side skirts of the EK civic are held on with 4 clips each side and a couple of screw clips. Even with those screws removed, the skirts were on there pretty solidly.

I am in no way involved with the body shop in question, I am looking at the situation as a shop owner.

- Re-install the "scraped" lip (which could have warped the mounting hole where the screw was holding and detached from the tape)? Depends on the owner.
- Half the cost of a $600 lip and hours of my time for a $150 job? No way.
- Repair the lip and remount it? Probably not.


Shitty situation, but at the end of the day it comes down to "You gotta pay to play".
You could save yourself some coin by R&R your bumpers yourself (~2h worth of work, depending on the car). I like what you have done to the car. Best of luck to you.
Thank you. I have just started mounting my lip on today, and will finish tomorrow. So far it took about 45 minutes or so to put it on. Used 3m tape all around, silicone all around, and also 2 locking nuts and bolts on the corner. Going to spend another hour or two tomorrow making brackets and sticking atleast 4 more bolts and nuts on the bottom of the lip. Tried using rivets but then it didn't go that well... Learned that you do get what you pay for, but I've also learned that the more expensive shops aren't always the better quality ones :/

A fully modded 370z AND a winter beater EG civic :thumbs:
Don't want to get into too much detail financially, but my 370z is still in the works haha. It was bought 2nd hand, 2009 and about 23k, and still paying it off. My EG was bought for 1k, slightly worked on, and sold for about 2.3k which is how much I bought my beater dc2 for

OWNED



:badpokerface::fullofwin::ahwow::nicethread:
Lol.. grow up

[knight604]

OWNED



:badpokerface::fullofwin::ahwow::nicethread:

go away trashcan

[Kaolinite]

did u pull over on hwy91 at like 740pm-ish? saw a black 370 and a guy looking at the front of his car

[Limitless]

Yes, that was me lol. Heard something flapping near the rear of my car and was afraid that something else might have fallen off so I pulled over to check. Never figured out what it was though

[Smallermouse]

Holy... 23k for a 2009 370z? Where did you even get that deal?

[cho]

stole it