[Tapioca]

Do RS users live in a bubble? I know quite a few yuppies (who aren't exactly poor) who don't have cars, but I know just as many who still worship the altar of private transportation.


Fewer drivers among urban youth in Metro Vancouver

Easy access to cheaper transit has many forgoing a traditional rite of passage: the driver’s license

By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun March 20, 2013 8:03 PM

Whitney Sharp always expected she would be driving when she turned 16. But five years later, she has yet to make it behind the wheel — or even to a driver licensing branch.

But that hasn’t been an issue for the 21-year-old Surrey woman, who hops the SkyTrain to school at Douglas College, and a bus to her job/volunteer work with the Surrey Eagles.

And her friends seem willing to carpool her around.

“It’s just easier and faster for me to take transit,” said Sharp, who lives at home. “There’s people I know at school who moved here from Calgary and they’re not getting a licence because it’s so easy to get around in Metro Vancouver.”

Sharp is representative of what TransLink has deemed a “noticeable drop” in the proportion of young adults aged 16-24 who are forgoing a traditional rite of passage: getting a driver’s licence.

Only 50 per cent of young people aged 16-19 and 80 per cent of those 20-29 had a driver’s licence in 2011 — down from 60 per cent and 90 per cent respectively in 1999 — according to TransLink’s latest trip diary, which surveyed almost 18,000 households on their commuting patterns, including how many trips they made in a 24-hour period.

The trend is more pronounced in transit-rich cities like Burnaby and Vancouver, which have more residents in the 20-39 age group than the rest of Metro and recorded the highest volume of transit trips in 2011.

Indeed, TransLink noted the biggest decline in the proportion of young drivers’ licences occurred in Vancouver, with only 49.7 per cent of those age 16-24 getting their licence in 2012, while the proportion in Surrey and Langley remained much the same at 67.9 per cent and 78.1 per cent respectively.

There’s no specific reasons given for the decline, but the TransLink analysis suggests it could be attributed to several factors, including a combination of the graduated licensing program and TransLink’s U-Pass program — a cheap universal pass that gives students access to bus, SeaBus and SkyTrain services within Metro Vancouver — or a “generational behaviour change because of shifts in values and attitudes.”

“The notion of getting a car and the ability to drive as a rite of passage is really eroding,” said Larry Frank, professor and J. Armand Bombardier chair in Sustainable Urban Transportation Systems at the University of B.C. “It’s an indication that our degree of car dependence, at least in this region, is declining.”

It appears teens no longer view a restored Mustang as the ticket to independence, said Maria Su, senior manager of research analytics with TransLink. The high price of gas and car ownership, on one hand, and the U-Pass program and better transit opportunities on the other, she said, are likely contributing to the trend, which “is not unique to Vancouver.”

“It used to be when people got out of school, the first thing they did was get a used car because it was a sign of freedom,” Su said. “Now you can meet up with a friend without a car.”

Regional planners are endorsing the move, promoting transit hubs around high-density neighbourhoods, such as those along the Canada Line, Expo and Millennium Line and the new Evergreen Line. According to the TransLink data, transit users are more likely to live in apartments or condos than single-family homes.

“It makes sense because the cost of living is getting so high and people can’t afford to own cars,” said Vancouver Coun. Geoff Meggs. “The problem is we’re not building transit fast enough to meet the demand.”

Kahan Dare, 20, who grew up in New Westminster and now lives near Burrard and Davie, said his parents have urged him to get his driver’s licence but he doesn’t see the point in paying for gas, insurance and “ridiculously expensive” parking at the UBC when he can just hop on a bus or SkyTrain.

Plus, he said, it’s seems like a huge undertaking to get a graduated licence when he’s studying for a combined honours in math and physics. It typically takes about three years get a full class-five driver’s licence.

“As a kid you think it’s really cool and important but it’s not,” Dare said, adding transit is also better for the environment and he doesn’t feel comfortable driving other people in a car. “If you live in a city like Vancouver that has a transit system that good, I don’t care if I do have (a car).”

Gordon Price, of Simon Fraser University’s City Program, credited the U-Pass for doing what cars did for his generation: giving youth their freedom. While cars were equated with rising affluence in his generation, today’s hipsters have a different view of transit. “That freedom is very powerful — not having to think about money or what it costs,” he said.

Frank agreed, noting young people are choosing homes were they can walk, bike or take transit. “They’re not running out to get a driver’s licence because it’s not a big part of their life,” he said. “They don’t want to live out in sprawl. From a sustainable transit perspective, it’s a good sign.”

But while more trips in Metro Vancouver were made by transit and cycling in 2011 compared with 2008, the car is still the dominant mode of transportation, especially the farther one gets from downtown Vancouver.

Despite significant transit use between Surrey and downtown Vancouver, for instance, most trips south of the Fraser are by car. And in places like Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge, car trips have increased since 2008. Most of those areas have fewer people between the ages of 20 and 39, which goes to show that the car is also still king of the road among drivers aged 45-64.

Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts noted a lack of transit is another factor. While one can drive from South Surrey to Cloverdale in 15 minutes, it takes an hour on the bus. “That’s why we need to build a transit network south of the Fraser,” she said. “Because we have a big population under the age of 19 not everyone can afford to drive, so they’re dependent on public transportation.”

For Sharp, transit has been her saviour. Although she was excited about learning to drive, “the novelty wore off” after her boyfriend had a car accident and she was injured in a bus crash. “I was anxious and just didn’t have the confidence,” she said.

But one day, she would like to get her licence, if only because it’s the main piece of identification for most British Columbians. “It’s embarrassing going to the bar and getting ID’d and having to hand my passport over.”

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[yray]

sucks to them when they do get a license and insure their car :lawl: :fullofwin:

[LP700-4]

Those people that they talk about in the article are most likely just cheap. No other word to describe it. They dont want to spend money on gas and benefit other people by driving them around.

Im in that age group and most of our grade in HS has gotten our licenses but there are still those cheap bastards that refuse to give you a ride anywhere and only demand rides from you or other people.

The other types of people are the ones you cant ever imagine behind the wheel of a car. Theres always these individuals that can memorize a textbook but cannot play sports or have any reflexes. Cant ever imagine them driving.

[Tapioca]

Those people that they talk about in the article are most likely just cheap. No other word to describe it. They dont want to spend money on gas and benefit other people by driving them around.

Im in that age group and most of our grade in HS has gotten our licenses but there are still those cheap bastards that refuse to give you a ride anywhere and only demand rides from you or other people.


When I was in high school, gas was 39.9 cents per litre and reliable runabouts, such as Honda Civics, were in large supply. The price of gas has gone up 3.5 times and cheap runabouts are in shorter supply (because people aren't buying as many cars as they used to and/or hanging onto their cars longer.) Operating a car was significantly cheaper 15 years ago. That minimum wage job at the PNE could allow you to run a car, but not so much anymore.

I'm not poor by any means - after all, I live on my own, I own a Bimmer, and I make an above-average salary. But, sometimes I wonder how I can justify owning a car considering the cost of living and what I have to give up to own and maintain that car (e.g. I can't take vacations as often, I have to bring lunch to work, etc.)

[dn53]

Def agree with the stats about 50% of my friends drive (19-20yo basically). Those who are basically going to school fulltime: you're basically forced to buy a bus pass no? Only makes sense to take what is the most economical, esp if you're in school. Personally I'm working f/t so I can afford to drive and maintain my own car, but I would not call those who take transit cheap fucks at all, gas is insanely expensive. But those who don't even have their drivers license at all? Lazy.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dhari]

Those people that they talk about in the article are most likely just cheap. No other word to describe it. They dont want to spend money on gas and benefit other people by driving them around.

Im in that age group and most of our grade in HS has gotten our licenses but there are still those cheap bastards that refuse to give you a ride anywhere and only demand rides from you or other people.

The other types of people are the ones you cant ever imagine behind the wheel of a car. Theres always these individuals that can memorize a textbook but cannot play sports or have any reflexes. Cant ever imagine them driving.

lol high school kid talking bout ppl being cheap. :suspicious: :fulloffuck: :seriously: :fuckthatshit:
do u live on ur own? do u pay rent? do u pay utilities? do u make car payments? do u pay for insurance? do u pay for gas?

[snails]

in highschool i lived on my own, payed my rent, utilities, was paying for car and everything on it, insurance and every drop of gas.

even if i didnt need to drive to work or could get rides from friends i would still want to own my car, i love working on it, driving it and being with my friends who share the same passion. that being said.

its expensive, even if you drive something cheap on gas, insurance and overall cost of vehicle, its hard to justify if there are better options.. but hey, we live in a generation of convenience, its not what we NEED, but more what we WANT, no one needs fast food, its easier, no one needs the newest iphone, we just want it, we dont need to put loud exhaust on our cars, its just our life style. this is the generation of convenience and most wont hesitate to spend for it.

if i didnt have the passion, or friend group i do, i would be on the fence about driving, could easily save $600-$1500 a month just by getting rides or taking a bus.

i dont blame people for taking alternate transportation, every time im DT i wonder why people even try to drive in it..

im also someone who regularly goes to at least 1 meet a week, consistently at local shops, work on my car and friends cars and look forward to sunny mornings so i can wash my car and go for a drive or the occasional photo shoot, so to me, my car is my life or at least a very large part of it

[Nlkko]

Those people that they talk about in the article are most likely just cheap. No other word to describe it. They dont want to spend money on gas and benefit other people by driving them around.

Im in that age group and most of our grade in HS has gotten our licenses but there are still those cheap bastards that refuse to give you a ride anywhere and only demand rides from you or other people.

The other types of people are the ones you cant ever imagine behind the wheel of a car. Theres always these individuals that can memorize a textbook but cannot play sports or have any reflexes. Cant ever imagine them driving.

:fulloffuck:

[DEADBEA7]

GOOD, I DONT WAN'T THEM ON MY ROADS ANYWAY LOLOL :fuckthatshit:

[Geoc]

I just do whatever is feasible imo, if I within walking distance of a skytrain station, then I would probably not drive either.

I never drive downtown, it's much easier to take the skytrain, and it cost around the same too with gas and parking, but without the hassle.

But living in Richmond where it takes 40mins to go from No.5 to Railway on the 410 bus that might not even show up on schedule? :fuckthatshit:

[LP700-4]

:fulloffuck:

Lol i just re-read my own post and i've got the same expression. :lawl: :failed:

Please dont take that post seriously.

However if you can afford a car and can afford everything that comes with it, please dont cheap out on that dollar or two of gas to give someone a ride when they need it. Thanks.

And no i do not live on my own, do not pay rent, do not pay utilities, do not make car payments, do not pay insurance, nor do i pay for gas.

[heleu]

I think it's a generational thing as well.

In my high school days, there were no cell phones (and barely internet) and you had to drive (or at least bike!) to connect with your friends. Nowadays everyone has smartphones and there's less of a desire to have your own car - I would argue most teenagers are more excited about getting a new iPhone or Galaxy than getting an old econobox.

Sadly, there is no emotional appeal in cars for most people...they treat them like appliances, which is probably why most of the new cars look like boxes and there are far fewer sports cars than in the 90s. Ok, now I'm starting to sound like Jeremy Clarkson.

[dvst8]

It was easier to own a car than it is now.

[gars]

Back in high school, all our friends would pile into a car and drive somewhere, or just get some food to eat. You can't really do that anymore either with the license restrictions.

As well - Insurance for teenagers. Back in the day, a lot of younger people would piggyback off their parents' insurance - but with ICBC cracking down on that, being a teenager and insuring a car around as the principal driver - it's definitely not affordable (nevermind the gas prices that people have already mentioned)

[Yodamaster]

Sadly, there is no emotional appeal in cars for most people...they treat them like appliances, which is probably why most of the new cars look like boxes and there are far fewer sports cars than in the 90s. Ok, now I'm starting to sound like Jeremy Clarkson.

Though it's completely valid, the majority of people who own cars treat them like a bar of soap, they just keep wearing them down until there is nothing left.

[Tapioca]

Though it's completely valid, the majority of people who own cars treat them like a bar of soap, they just keep wearing them down until there is nothing left.

Cars, in general, are much more reliable now than they were even just 20 years ago. Cars no longer need tune ups (self-adjusting valves, modern ignition systems, timing chains, long-life spark plugs), oil change intervals are much longer, and electronics will generally last the life of the car. Most people don't own cars long enough to have major issues crop up (unless you're one of a dying breed of enthusiasts.)

On the other hand, people are pressed for time these days. Many people are working longer hours and putting more of their spare time into leisure activities or their children's lives. As long as the car works, it takes a back seat to other things.

[falcon]

"so easy" to get around in Metro Van? LOOOOL.. I guess she's never been anywhere else in the world. Our transit is GARBAGE. That being said I wish more people would take it then the govnt would see the increased ridership and put more money into it. We need some LRT/Trains.

[AndM]

haha most teens are too lazy to get it or are scared of failing the tests. A majority of the people I know are eligible but don't go for those reasons. It still boggles my mind how anyone could possibly fail the L test, let alone the N test :fulloffuck:

[bluejays]

This is the only thing i could picture while reading that article
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRefuknkvRRfJsLAitsnK8e08ngkNQY6 CF5fEhlphmif22mn28NhQ

[bloodmack]

because hipsters, fucking bicycles.

[Tapioca]

because hipsters, fucking bicycles.

If you lived in Vancouver, particularly downtown Vancouver, you wouldn't actually need a car.

The rise of condo living is destroying car culture also. You can't do maintenance and you have no room for tools, so if you do have to buy a car, you buy one that doesn't need to be serviced all that much.

[Lomac]

Plus, he said, it’s seems like a huge undertaking to get a graduated licence when he’s studying for a combined honours in math and physics. It typically takes about three years get a full class-five driver’s licence.


Wait... what?

:suspicious:





Honestly, learning to drive was probably one of the easiest things I've ever done in my life. How hard is it to take an hour, or even half an hour, out of your day every couple days and drive down to the shop and back.

[Eff-1]

My dad taught me to drive. The whole process took 2 months I think? Now I think it's a much bigger ordeal with all that GLP program stages and the cost of lessons.

[a00755836]

people should have a driver license even though they dont drive. the process of getting a full class 5 takes long, but the steps (knowledge test and 2 road tests) are not a big deal. plus, your premium goes down every year. so its better to do it now rather than later.

...but a car is very convenient to move stuff around and groceries and taking kids to school and etc etc etc...

if this kelly girl was me, she would be convinced otherwise.

[Akinari]

I dunno, I'm going to school full-time back and forth from White Rock and UBC every day. Although I take the bus, if I had the money to blow I would most certainly prefer driving. The cost of gas and insurance is absolutely bollocks.

[Matlock]

What morons. When I was learning to drive I took a lesson once a week for maybe 8 weeks before getting my N, then just drove my beater for a while and took a couple more lessons and got my class 5. The hardest thing about getting my license was probably taking the L test.

I am one of the people who hate transit and refuse to take it. Shitty transit system full of fat people and germs. No thanks.

[Tapioca]

I am one of the people who hate transit and refuse to take it. Shitty transit system full of fat people and germs. No thanks.

Poor drivers and people who don't drive sports cars are the reason why I prefer to stay off the roads during the day. If I had it my way, everyone would have to take defensive driver training, undergo a license renewal road test every 5 years, and would be prohibited from driving cars with automatic transmissions unless drivers could prove a medical condition which physically inhibited them from driving a manual.

You must be a real delight to be around though. Fat people and germs? Puh-leeze.

[Soundy]

I know this may come as a shock to a car forum, but... there are people whose lives don't actually revolved around vehicles and the fastest, most flashy way to get from A to B. I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who live in Yaletown or downtown and never NEED to go more than about 6 blocks from home - owning a car and carrying all its expenses is just wasteful when you use it MAYBE once a month. Some of them have licenses and use Zipcar or Car2Go the odd time they need wheels, but even that is rare.

Strangely, these people still manage to have busy, fulfilling lives...

[Spoon]

Driving was only fun for me when I was in my teens. Now it just feels like a chore. Much rather hop on the skytrain and surf the web while I go from point A to B.

Already told the wife that if I ever do get a car again, it'll only be a weekend car.

[Great68]

Some days my drive to/from work is the best part of my day.

And I fucking hate transit too. After doing the 98-B-Line to downtown and back for a month I had enough and vowed to get a job where I didn't have to do that anymore.

[Graeme S]

There's a kid I tutor, he's kind of like my nephew. Even though he has no plans to drive and isn't sure which country he'll be in by the time he's done high school, I've been pushing him to get his DL. Ease of use as an ID, a useful talent to have, and great for bringing your insurance rates down as you get older even if you're not *driving* driving.


Also, the fact that a DL is an "huge undertaking" is bullshit. Written test, study for an hour or three before hand (or download the test practice app on Android and just keep going 'til you can't fail :lawl:). Driving test is a year out--you can't tell me that within a year you won't have the opportunity to improve your skills. Class 5 test is two years out from that...

Saying "It takes three years to get a license" means it's a huge undertaking is such a ridiculous spin. It's not like it's constant tests and exams and courses...it's just a fuckton of waiting.

[Energy]

Driving just makes so much more sense. A round trip to UBC takes me about an hour whereas if I took the bus it would be closer to 2.5 hours and time is money right now.

Then again I am coming from Richmond. Maybe if I lived in Vancouver I wouldn't need a car. But who am I kidding, a car isn't just an appliance for me or for most people on here.

[Peturbo]

I own a car that is insured but still take public transit almost daily.
Nothing wrong with saving some money on gas and there are always cuties on the bus I take so that doesn't hurt either.
No point being a snob and bitching about transit all the time.

[jing]

If transit was more convenient for the places I need to go then it would definitely be a more viable option. However, given that it would take me longer to get to work I'd much prefer driving, not to mention it would be a 3 zone each way lol.
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[twitchyzero]

I dunno, I'm going to school full-time back and forth from White Rock and UBC every day.
dafuq

props to you...I would just give in after half a semester and live on campus or the very least buy a beater.

[q0192837465]

It all depends in location. It's stupid to make blanket statements about how stupid owning of not owning a car is. The article is biased too. If you live in downtown or Yaletown, no shit you don't need a car. If you don't live along a bus route, then of course it makes more sense to drive.

Either way, nothing beats cruising around town with the top down on a nice summer day.
Posted via RS Mobile

[nns]

I can be very irritable. I drive so that I don't have to put up with other bus riders, and they don't have to put up with me.

Mutually beneficial.

Sort of OT, I was in DT, driving along Hastings. Stopped behind a car that was turning right onto Cambie and Hastings, both of us waiting for a pedestrian to cross the street. Car turns, I go forward. Bus driver pulls up beside me at the next intersection and gives me the "eat shit and die" glare while mouthing something. I have no idea what I did to him. I leaned forward, smiled, and waved at him. I bet I really sent him over the edge.

[Splinter]

I moved here for school 3 months ago from the Island, I drove every day for an hour a day at home. I stopped driving 3 days after I arrived. There is no pleasure in driving in this city.

Everyone is trying to kill you, traffic doesn't move, no one signals. It's awful. I take the train to school and it takes 10 minutes longer than driving (35 vs 45 mins)

It's worth it for the lack of stress. I still own both my cars, I keep one insured for when I need it (pleasure use only)

But until I leave vancouver when I'm done school, the u-pass is my main form of transportation. Vancouver roads are awful. I can see why no one here wants to drive.

[beproud]

maybe people are getting smarter eh? need vs want? I know for a fact I don't need to drive, because our transit system can take me anywhere I want. But I want to driver a 100k car therefore I do=p Probs to those who takes the bus=)

[Oleophobic]

I moved here for school 3 months ago from the Island, I drove every day for an hour a day at home. I stopped driving 3 days after I arrived. There is no pleasure in driving in this city.

Everyone is trying to kill you, traffic doesn't move, no one signals. It's awful. I take the train to school and it takes 10 minutes longer than driving (35 vs 45 mins)


I was so close to writing a counter argument to your post but then I realized you live in Richmond...

[Lomac]

maybe people are getting smarter eh? need vs want? I know for a fact I don't need to drive, because our transit system can take me anywhere I want. But I want to driver a 100k car therefore I do=p Probs to those who takes the bus=)

Again it revolves around where you live. DT Vancouver.... sure, transit will get you to where ever you want faster than driving. However, if you live in an area where transit isn't available on demand and only comes by once an hour (trust me, that's how it is where I live), driving suddenly makes a lot more sense.

And before people start saying to move closer to a bus line, keep in mind that it's not that simple for the majority of people.

[dared3vil0]

Besides commuting, I own a vehicle because i genuinely enjoy driving. Not because i have some awesome car (hint: I don't) but because there's something just magical about a nice drive after school or work, Windows down just cruising, music on... Maybe i'm just weird though? :okay:

[RS_Pat]

Well as mentioned, smartphones, tablets and other gadgets have replaced the car as the status symbol of the youth. Most would probably give up their car over their phone... Plus with all the social media mediums, who needs to go out anymore anyways ?! :badpokerface:

[trix4kids]

I worked my butt off the summer of grade 10 and 11 to get my car in the beginning of this year. My 01 prelude se is my baby fuck my cellphone, I don't even listen to music I just like listening to my engine even while I'm cruising and the engagement of driving and rowing the gears. My generation is extremely lazy, people give me condescending talks about how much more work it is driving manual and I just laugh in their face. I'm not too surprised there are less and less people driving as our transit system is much more economical then driving ($80 bus passes vs $1.40 for a litre of gas + insurance and maint)

It's personal preference but to me.

vtec > going on facebook reading about people's days I dont give two shits about.

[Culture_Vulture]

I've owned a car living with the folks in middle-of-fucking-nowhere-Surrey.
And I've also lived on my own without a car in Burnaby, along the skytrain route.

Honestly speaking, the two feel the same to me.
If I needed to get to school from wherever it was that I was living at the time, it would have taken the same amount of time, driving from Surrey or transiting from Burnaby.
And in the long run, what I was saving by living at home all went to car payments, gas, insurance, and all that extra money I'm spending because of the added mobility of going anywhere I damn well wanted.

So yes, it does depend on where you live. But also another factor is just your attitude. People who do nothing but complain about idiots on public transit (granted, there are a LOT of those) are just picky, that's all.
It's all routine; within a certain extent, that is. I've never understood how people I knew who grew up in Langley would make the transit to and from UBC every fucking day for like 3 hours of lecture. It gets too much when you're effectively spending more time on transit than you are at your destination.
But in my first year of university, I toughed it out by sloshing through the snow 6:30 in the morning onto a bus smelling like wet feet and coffee, then pile into an overstuffed skytrain with people still drunk from the night before or those who talk too fucking loud on their phones, and I didn't mind it.
Then there was a period in time where I just drove everywhere, and I pretty much just starting hating public transit.
Now that my transiting to driving ratio is about 70:30, I've found a pretty sweet spot.

But that all just goes to show that I've readjusted to the specific circumstances.

Just sayin...beyond being able to afford paying for a car and/or afford living at a more urban metropolitan area, some people just need to stop fucking whining.

[Culture_Vulture]

But since this is a car forum, yes, owning a car and driving it is fucking awesome (if not slightly unaffordable depending on how you drive and where you live).

[StylinRed]

ive noticed when driving by some high schools the parking lots are surprisingly bare compared to when i went to high school

i took that to mean that times are hard for many not that people are taking transit instead... i find that hard to believe :D but i guess we're biased

But one day, she would like to get her licence, if only because it’s the main piece of identification for most British Columbians. “It’s embarrassing going to the bar and getting ID’d and having to hand my passport over.”

do people not know about BCID??

[bing]

wooo I actually enjoy driving.

A trend of fewer cars on the road? I don't mind at all. I actually think there are too many.

[Splinter]

I was so close to writing a counter argument to your post but then I realized you live in Richmond...

Trust me, I can't wait til the day I'm back in a small down, and put my impreza back on the road and never see the inside of a bus again.

Even if I could afford it, I wouldn't risk it here. It'd be driven into, doors smashed in parking lots, impounded and VI'd all in the first week :okay:

[Gerbs]

I worked my butt off the summer of grade 10 and 11 to get my car in the beginning of this year. My 01 prelude se is my baby fuck my cellphone, I don't even listen to music I just like listening to my engine even while I'm cruising and the engagement of driving and rowing the gears. My generation is extremely lazy, people give me condescending talks about how much more work it is driving manual and I just laugh in their face. I'm not too surprised there are less and less people driving as our transit system is much more economical then driving ($80 bus passes vs $1.40 for a litre of gas + insurance and maint)

It's personal preference but to me

.

vtec > going on facebook reading about people's days I dont give two shits about.

haha I can relate I worked like mad gr.10 - 11 saving to buy a g35 lool ended up saving 7k then giving up because I found out insurance was to expensive. so I just split insurance for my family car and drive that around. sucks how I only know like 1 person paying for insurance I'm grade 12.
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[PJ]

I know this may come as a shock to a car forum, but... there are people whose lives don't actually revolved around vehicles and the fastest, most flashy way to get from A to B. I have plenty of friends and acquaintances who live in Yaletown or downtown and never NEED to go more than about 6 blocks from home - owning a car and carrying all its expenses is just wasteful when you use it MAYBE once a month. Some of them have licenses and use Zipcar or Car2Go the odd time they need wheels, but even that is rare.

Strangely, these people still manage to have busy, fulfilling lives...

That's exactly what I plan to do in a couple years when I move down there and live the downtown life for a while. Sell my cars and get around via Transit/Car2Go/Taxi. I'm downtown 90% of the time when I'm not at home anyway.

Right now I live in East Van, and the only times I really use my car is to get to work and the studio, which is all downtown. I still park at a skytrain station and take transit or car2go now and then, depending on where I'm going. I car2go downtown and taxi home if I'm planning to drink.

If I cut out my car expenses, that averages to roughly $800/month after gas/insurance/maintenance/whatever. That's more than enough to get around via Car2Go and transit, and hell, even some $40 cab rides and STILL have money left over.

That's just what works for me though. People who have families, or live outside of Vancouver obviously don't have the luxury of redundant transportation options, so having a car does make sense.

Also, everyone's priorities are different. I have high-6-figure earning friends living downtown who would never consider paying 20 grand for a new Civic, let alone the luxury Germans. I know this is a car forum and most people will be into pretty cars. But, different strokes for different folks.

[VRYALT3R3D]

If you lived in Vancouver, particularly downtown Vancouver, you wouldn't actually need a car.

The rise of condo living is destroying car culture also. You can't do maintenance and you have no room for tools, so if you do have to buy a car, you buy one that doesn't need to be serviced all that much.

The people not interested in cars and more interested in phones and other technology is what is killing it.

Sucks for them, because some of the BEST cars EVER are coming out now.

[trix4kids]

haha I can relate I worked like mad gr.10 - 11 saving to buy a g35 lool ended up saving 7k then giving up because I found out insurance was to expensive. so I just split insurance for my family car and drive that around. sucks how I only know like 1 person paying for insurance I'm grade 12.
Posted via RS Mobile

Yeah I'm also gr.12. My dad was really nice and let me put the car under his name so it was exponentially cheaper. Driving is definitely a huge privilege at our age, but people I know whine about getting a brand new A6 instead of an A7.

[dared3vil0]

Yeah I'm also gr.12. My dad was really nice and let me put the car under his name so it was exponentially cheaper. Driving is definitely a huge privilege at our age, but people I know whine about getting a brand new A6 instead of an A7.

If you think that's bad, There's a girl at my school who was given a brand new Audi A6 3.0T and refused to drive it for the first month because it was white and not black like she had "told them".

[JSALES]

I hate taking transit, the only time I'll really taking transit is if I'm going downtown so I'll just hop on the skytrain and leave my car parked somewhere close to the station. I love driving as well and I mostly use my beater to get around like work etc.. because insurance and gas is pretty cheap on my vehicle.

[trix4kids]

If you think that's bad, There's a girl at my school who was given a brand new Audi A6 3.0T and refused to drive it for the first month because it was white and not black like she had "told them".

Funny that same girl has a white A6 LOL do you go to north...

[VRYALT3R3D]

If you think that's bad, There's a girl at my school who was given a brand new Audi A6 3.0T and refused to drive it for the first month because it was white and not black like she had "told them".

There was a girl in my high school who complained about getting a brand new BMW M3. Her dad kept it, and actually bought her a Ford Pinto and spray painted it with various colours. It looked so ghetto. It was awesome. She told me her dad said "Want a better car? Well, you better earn it yourself than."

She now takes the bus LOL.

[JSALES]

There was a girl in my high school who complained about getting a brand new BMW M3. Her dad kept it, and actually bought her a Ford Pinto and spray painted it with various colours. It looked so ghetto. It was awesome. She told me her dad said "Want a better car? Well, you better earn it yourself than."

She now takes the bus LOL.

good, some teens these days don't appreciate the things their parents do for them.

[coolname]

it may of been easier to own a car in high school before but it definitely isn't impossible, i am in high school and i paid for every part of my car(my dad did help pay for the first mechanics vist though). It only costs me around 150 a month for insurance and the cost of gas is the same as that of a monthly bus pass

[UFO]

I can be very irritable. I drive so that I don't have to put up with other bus riders, and they don't have to put up with me.


I am the same way, but opposite. When I was working I hated driving during most times of the day before 8pm, because I hate having to put up with douchey drivers, crappy drivers, and the sheer number of cars on the road.

Now that I'm back in school, I can appreciate transit. I can nap, day dream, read, whatever really. It may take me an extra 15-30 mins to make my trip, my bus may not show up occassionally, but my overall stress level goes down because I can take it easy during my commute instead of actually generating more anxiety.

I still keep my car insured for pleasure use when we have to go shopping, make trips, and its convenient to have a 2nd car ready to go. But having UPass and being a cheapass, I'm going to keep using transit until I'm out of school.

[yray]

There was a girl in my high school who complained about getting a brand new BMW M3. Her dad kept it, and actually bought her a Ford Pinto and spray painted it with various colours. It looked so ghetto. It was awesome. She told me her dad said "Want a better car? Well, you better earn it yourself than."

She now takes the bus LOL.

pics of said pinto :fullofwin:

[dared3vil0]

Funny that same girl has a white A6 LOL do you go to north...

I don't think we're talking about the same person. Was she Indian?

[dared3vil0]

it may of been easier to own a car in high school before but it definitely isn't impossible, i am in high school and i paid for every part of my car(my dad did help pay for the first mechanics vist though). It only costs me around 150 a month for insurance and the cost of gas is the same as that of a monthly bus pass

How the hell do you get insurance for 150 and gas for 80? My insurance is 300 a month and i pay 70 a week in gas...

[hongy]

it may of been easier to own a car in high school before but it definitely isn't impossible, i am in high school and i paid for every part of my car(my dad did help pay for the first mechanics vist though). It only costs me around 150 a month for insurance and the cost of gas is the same as that of a monthly bus pass

What car do you own... I'm paying the price of a bus pass for gas every week.
And it's the people mentioned above that I hate, it's because of them that people have such a hate towards anyone who's parent's bought them a car.

[PJ]

How the hell do you get insurance for 150 and gas for 80? My insurance is 300 a month and i pay 70 a week in gas...

Plenty of older economy A to B cars are that cheap.

My EL is about that amount. ~160 a month on insurance, and ~90 a month on gas. ($45 tank lasts me around 2 weeks, or 400+ km)

My FX, however... whole different story

[lilaznviper]

i pay about 200/month with basic + 3million + collision comprehensive crap insurance and about 100 bucks a month for gas driving a slow ass corolla

[Culture_Vulture]

There was a girl in my high school who complained about getting a brand new BMW M3. Her dad kept it, and actually bought her a Ford Pinto and spray painted it with various colours. It looked so ghetto. It was awesome. She told me her dad said "Want a better car? Well, you better earn it yourself than."

She now takes the bus LOL.
pix or didn't happen

[bing]

I moved here for school 3 months ago from the Island, I drove every day for an hour a day at home. I stopped driving 3 days after I arrived. There is no pleasure in driving in this city.

Everyone is trying to kill you, traffic doesn't move, no one signals. It's awful. I take the train to school and it takes 10 minutes longer than driving (35 vs 45 mins)

It's worth it for the lack of stress. I still own both my cars, I keep one insured for when I need it (pleasure use only)

But until I leave vancouver when I'm done school, the u-pass is my main form of transportation. Vancouver roads are awful. I can see why no one here wants to drive.

Which part of the island are you from? I'm only familiar with Victoria and it literally takes 1 min to drive through the entire downtown. People drove really slow there (besides on the highway) and I was certainly not used to it.

[Purely]

Some people just don't CARE. It isn't about access to an vehicle, but they have no interesting in driving/cars.

[Splinter]

Which part of the island are you from? I'm only familiar with Victoria and it literally takes 1 min to drive through the entire downtown. People drove really slow there (besides on the highway) and I was certainly not used to it.


I would commute from east sooke to langford every day. Nice winding country roads. I didn't hit my first traffic light until I was five minutes from work.

[shenmecar]

not surprising at all. i see my younger brother and his friends within the age group of 16-19, only one has a license.

i think its not so much to do with laziness but a change in priorities that they see important now. 6 years ago while i was in high school, my friends and i couldn't wait to get our licenses. we used to go cruising after class and nearly killed ourselves numerous times, because it was FUN. i see my brother and his friends and they're all into working out, protein shakes and true religion jeans
Posted via RS Mobile

[epicbeardman]

i can relate to the people in the article. My car is basically used for groceries and to shuttle me to the nearest skytrain station. The U-Pass has been a godsend! That said, I still think it's kind of awkward when you talk to someone well into their 20s who doesn't even have their L.

[PJ]

i see my brother and his friends and they're all into working out, protein shakes and true religion jeans


l.m.a.o.

So keeping this line :nyan:

[bloodmack]

The people not interested in cars and more interested in phones and other technology is what is killing it.

Sucks for them, because some of the BEST cars EVER are coming out now.

The best cars ever came out in the 90's

[Soundy]

The best cars ever came out in the 90's

Back in 1990, when I was working in car audio, our store manager came in one day, all puffed up and looking like a proud new papa. He proclaimed that he had just received the biggest compliment ever on his car (an absolutely gorgeous fully-restored '68 'Cuda): he'd pulled into a 7-Eleven and walking in past a bunch of ricers and their dialed-up Civics, heard one of them say, "now THAT'S a CAR!"

[coolname]

How the hell do you get insurance for 150 and gas for 80? My insurance is 300 a month and i pay 70 a week in gas...

92 miata, i paid for the first year insurance upfront and put 150 a month away so i will have the money again next year. I am still a student so i only use my car to get to work 3 times a week(20 minutes drive) and to go out with friends on weekend.

[q0192837465]

Wow, how do you guys manage to use so much gas. My slk55 uses $30 of gas each week (commuting from work, not counting weekend trips) I drive from east van to lougheed mall everyday to work.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Tapioca]

The best cars ever came out in the 90's

The 1990s was the peak in terms of the balance between engineering and reliability. The engineering has improved, but cars are now designed for obsolescence.

[Purely]

90's cars are a lot better than modern cars today.

[UFO]

How the hell do you get insurance for 150 and gas for 80? My insurance is 300 a month and i pay 70 a week in gas...

what car do you drive? haha. $300/mth insurance works out to like ~$3500/yr just for insurance

When I was in Uni the first time around, I had a beater. Bought no collision because it wasnt worth it. Had 1M third party, basic coverage, and I think $500 deductible for comprehensive. It was about $1100/yr with 20-30% discount. And probably spent about $50/mth in gas, but gas back then was around $0.70/L

I half feel the pain of the kids these days driving G35's and 350z's; $100+/tank that gets you maybe 350km's. But then the other half realizes that their cars are about 15x better than my Yaris

[k2damax]

I pay 260 a month for insurance and probably spend 140 a month on gas ...

[hongy]

what car do you drive? haha. $300/mth insurance works out to like ~$3500/yr just for insurance

When I was in Uni the first time around, I had a beater. Bought no collision because it wasnt worth it. Had 1M third party, basic coverage, and I think $500 deductible for comprehensive. It was about $1100/yr with 20-30% discount. And probably spent about $50/mth in gas, but gas back then was around $0.70/L

I half feel the pain of the kids these days driving G35's and 350z's; $100+/tank that gets you maybe 350km's. But then the other half realizes that their cars are about 15x better than my Yaris

100 per tank.. I get around 300km...
Posted via RS Mobile

[Splinter]

The 1990s was the peak in terms of the balance between engineering and reliability. The engineering has improved, but cars are now designed for obsolescence.

90s cars are also a lot better for modifications. Too much inter-connectivity in modern cars.

[jing]

My gf wAnders why I only like old cars... I'm glad there are other likeminded individuals out there lol
Posted via RS Mobile

[Soundy]

The people not interested in cars and more interested in phones and other technology is what is killing it.
People have always had other interests besides cars; phones and technology are just RECENT distractions. What, you think before 1990 *everyone* was into cars because there were no cell phones?

...but cars are now designed for obsolescence.
This is just another symptom of the same issue with those "phones and technology". Nobody wants to pay what it costs for something solid, reliable and long-lasting. They want cheap, and they're willing to just throw it away when it breaks and gets something new. Holds true for tech, holds true for cars.

Sucks for them, because some of the BEST cars EVER are coming out now.

The 1990s was the peak in terms of the balance between engineering and reliability.

In 1981 my dad bought a brand new Dodge pickup with the classic Slant-6. He retired it in 1987 with a cracked frame and bagged suspension, and over 450,000km on it. Yes, in barely six years. Despite having been run dry of oil at least once, the old Slant-6 was still chugging along. You want reliable, that was it. My buddy had a '67 Valiant with the same plant. The design stuck around for a long time because of its reliability. The Mopar slant six engines (http://www.allpar.com/slant6.html)

[Drow]

got confused when i read "urban youths"

[Soundy]

What is a Yoot? - YouTube

[dared3vil0]

what car do you drive? haha. $300/mth insurance works out to like ~$3500/yr just for insurance

When I was in Uni the first time around, I had a beater. Bought no collision because it wasnt worth it. Had 1M third party, basic coverage, and I think $500 deductible for comprehensive. It was about $1100/yr with 20-30% discount. And probably spent about $50/mth in gas, but gas back then was around $0.70/L

I half feel the pain of the kids these days driving G35's and 350z's; $100+/tank that gets you maybe 350km's. But then the other half realizes that their cars are about 15x better than my Yaris

The ridiculous part is it's just a generic Civic Si. I drive 400KM a week and spend around 70/week in gas. 298 is the cheapest insurance i can find. I've never been in an accident either. That's what happens when you're only 18 though...

[Tapioca]

The ridiculous part is it's just a generic Civic Si. I drive 400KM a week and spend around 70/week in gas. 298 is the cheapest insurance i can find. I've never been in an accident either. That's what happens when you're only 18 though...

You have 2 years of driving experience and you drive a car that has been one of the most stolen cars in recent years. That is why your premiums are so high.

Lesson: drive a beater and decline extra coverage in your early years so you can earn your claims discount cheaply.

[dared3vil0]

You have 2 years of driving experience and you drive a car that has been one of the most stolen cars in recent years. That is why your premiums are so high.

Lesson: drive a beater and decline extra coverage in your early years so you can earn your claims discount cheaply.

Good point on the most stolen car. never though of that.

[Tapioca]

90s cars are also a lot better for modifications. Too much inter-connectivity in modern cars.

Modifications are over-rated and they reduce the resale value of your car.

When you have superior engineering, you don't need modifications. See the BMW E30, E34, and E39.

[Splinter]

Modifications are over-rated and they reduce the resale value of your car.

When you have superior engineering, you don't need modifications. See the BMW E30, E34, and E39.

Oh lord this is cute. I have an 83 Brat and a 98 Impreza. What the hell do I care about resale value? They're basically worthless.

I modify cars because I enjoy modifying cars. I don't see the point in just buying a car. Anyone can do that. Taking a shell and turning it into something that you created will ALWAYS be the greater challenge, is INFINITELY more rewarding and the whole point of cars to me. I don't care if your brand new factory stamped car can drive circles around me. I built my car, not some asshole in germany.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Modifications are over-rated and they reduce the resale value of your car.

When you have superior engineering, you don't need modifications. See the BMW E30, E34, and E39.

I guess I am an idiot then. I plan on getting a ZR1 and pouring another 40k into it for 900RWHP.

Oh no! My resale value:okay:

[bing]

Oh lord this is cute. I have an 83 Brat and a 98 Impreza. What the hell do I care about resale value? They're basically worthless.

I modify cars because I enjoy modifying cars. I don't see the point in just buying a car. Anyone can do that. Taking a shell and turning it into something that you created will ALWAYS be the greater challenge, is INFINITELY more rewarding and the whole point of cars to me. I don't care if your brand new factory stamped car can drive circles around me. I built my car, not some asshole in germany.

Ah, another argument meant to indicate moral superiority. "I built my car while he bought it" or "he paid someone to put those modifications while I did it myself". This is what I call 'shit box logic' so people can make themselves feel better about themselves. Why is the individual who builds the car for a customer in North America automatically labeled an asshole?

[optiblue]

This is the main topic of conversation more often than never among my friends! The consensus is that less and less young kids will drive during and after schooling nowadays and that leaves people that drive with more space around town! Sucks to be a dealership though.

[Splinter]

Ah, another argument meant to indicate moral superiority. "I built my car while he bought it" or "he paid someone to put those modifications while I did it myself". This is what I call 'shit box logic' so people can make themselves feel better about themselves. Why is the individual who builds the car for a customer in North America automatically labeled an asshole?

Because I felt like it :)

I don't get how people who've never so much as installed a lightbulb in their car can call themselves a car enthusiast. For what I've spent on my Impreza I could have easily bought a brand new car, for cash. I didn't want to though. It has nothing to do with false logic so I feel better about myself. I feel good about myself for working on my car.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Nevermind

[Gerbs]

not surprising at all. i see my younger brother and his friends within the age group of 16-19, only one has a license.

i think its not so much to do with laziness but a change in priorities that they see important now. 6 years ago while i was in high school, my friends and i couldn't wait to get our licenses. we used to go cruising after class and nearly killed ourselves numerous times, because it was FUN. i see my brother and his friends and they're all into working out, protein shakes and true religion jeans
Posted via RS Mobile

No your brother is just lazy to get his license LOL

[J.C]

^^ lol were 2 of your brothers friends that do have it
i drive roughly 5 days of the week to the gym or to go shopping or something and im grateful to be privelaged to have the car so often
what i find is that they're either too lazy, scared of driving, have no interest in driving, or rely on other people to drive them around

[ironheader]

Parking Near my work in the Downtown Eastside is $10+ per day; almost double on nights with events at the stadiums. That's whats primarily going to prevent me from driving to work.


Damn I just bumped a 2 Year Old Thread. Woops!

[death_blossom]

There’s no specific reasons given for the decline, but the TransLink analysis suggests it could be attributed to several factors, including a combination of the graduated licensing program and TransLink’s U-Pass program — a cheap universal pass that gives students access to bus, SeaBus and SkyTrain services within Metro Vancouver — or a “generational behaviour change because of shifts in values and attitudes.”

yup, youth now are more concerned with spending their money smartphones and other frivolous gadgets to even consider saving up for a car.

[Tone Loc]

yup, youth now are more concerned with spending their money smartphones and other frivolous gadgets to even consider saving up for a car.

Personally, I think this is only true because car ownership is pretty unattainable for a young person unless they are helped by their parents. Plus, this generation is obsessed with having "nice" things; for a lot of kids at my old high school, the idea of a $500-$1000 beater was "embarrassing", they all wanted the Acura TL, TSX, RSX, Lexus IS300, Infiniti G35, etc.... yes I went to school in East Van, can't you tell? IMHO, I'd rather drive a $500 POS than wait around in the rain for a bus but that's just me.

Furthermore, insurance alone for a new driver with zero discount is around $2500-$3000/year for the average, older compact car such as a Honda Civic. I don't know about you guys, but back when I was 19, working at Playland, I made barely that much working the 4 months it was open. Factor in the price of the car itself, the cost of fuel, maintenance, repairs... kinda hard for the average young person making $10.25-$14 an hour to spend that kind of coin unless they were bent on never going out or buying anything else.

Let's be real here, if my dad wasn't willing to insure the car I bought under his own name (and saving me around $2000/year) I never would have bought one. Ditto if I wasn't a mechanically-inclined guy who didn't have to rely on a stealership to fix things.

[thumper]

i asked this of someone i know at work who has no interest in owning a car. he grew up in a one car household and his dad was the only person who drove and he always took it to work so there was never a car to borrow. he eventually had to get a drivers license only because employers would always ask if he is licensed. he used transit to go to ubc because it was convenient and cheaper than car ownership, expenses, and parking pass costs, which was a concern because he paid his own way through university through crappy minimum wage jobs and student loans. in the apartment he lives in now the parking stall was an extra that was not included. if he does need a car for something, he does ride share.

[rcoccultwar]

There were a couple times this year I sat down with a young kid that would be new in town trying to get his driver's license and looking at buying a car. You know what I told him to do? Spend $3,000 on the car, not 10-15g's. There is a chance the car might last 3 years only needing oil changes and maybe a few hundred dollars of maintenance along the way. Also, being a new driver, its inevitable small accidents happen. 2 at fault accidents to a new driver can be a major blow.

I told this Asian girl a couple years ago with a work Visa to get a scooter. The cost compared to the bus wasn't that much different and I told her it being a rarity with her riding, she would be without a doubt, as they say today, "like the cool kids".

On the extreme side of things there are a lot of healthy running cars around 1000 bucks on Craigslist. Wouldn't be surprised some could run a year without repairs. Some of these when new, I still have great fond memories of! A young common-law couple both living off minimum wage can drive and commute with the fore mentioned car 20,000km/year, live in a decent basement suite somewhere in the Valley, and have some disposable income to spare.

[twitchyzero]

yep it'll comes down to insurance if teenager/early 20's individual is footing the entire bill
annually insurance for an N driver probably worth more than their 18 year old Civic/Integra