[PJ]

So, I'm aware that this topic has been beaten to death.. But it seems like there are always yay and nay sayers.

A friend of mine was getting poor mileage on his Civic. Only ~300km per full tank.
He changed filters, plugs, pcv, etc, but no help.
He finally tried some STP cleaner in his tank, and he ended up getting an extra ~100km per tank!!

I never believed in these fuel tank additives, but I'm tempted to try this out. Wondering if anyone has used these and got results?

[PJ]

The ~100km is probably exaggerated. But he seems really chipper and excited about it. Must've done something right
Posted via RS Mobile

[Splinter]

Changes that big are usually psychological.

You try a new additive, and you're consciously looking for a change so your driving behaviour changes. That makes more of a difference than anything.

I use seafoam twice a year in my fuel, but I never really notice much of a difference. It's more of a why-the-hell-not sort of thing.

[AW607]

I used fuel injector cleaner in my car about a month ago, and as far as I know, my driving style hasn't changed. Noticeably, I saw about a 25% increase in my mileage; I could squeeze almost an extra 100km out of my tank than before I poured in the cleaner. It might not be much, but it's something :badpokerface:

[GabAlmighty]

I put 2 stroke oil in my gas tank

[PJ]

I use seafoam twice a year in my fuel, but I never really notice much of a difference. It's more of a why-the-hell-not sort of thing.

I was looking at seafoam too, but I've read all this jibberjabber about how you gotta run it through your oil and you brake lines, etc etc.

But that's exactly why I'm tempted to try the STP stuff. For $5-$10, it really is more of a why-the-hell-not.

[bcrdukes]

I put 2 stroke oil in my gas tank

Diesel works wonders for me.

[Splinter]

I was looking at seafoam too, but I've read all this jibberjabber about how you gotta run it through your oil and you brake lines, etc etc.

You CAN also run it through your oil or intake (um, not brakes), but you don't have to

[fliptuner]

Gab, try outboard 2 stroke oil.

For cars, I've used this with good results (click pic):
3M 08963 Fuel System Tune-Up Kit : Amazon.com : Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516-O-L0vLL.@@AMEPARAM@@516-O-L0vLL

[GabAlmighty]

Gab, try outboard 2 stroke oil.


I just pick up regular 2 stroke oil from the Yamaha dealership? I'll ask him he they have outboard specific stuff next time i'm there.
This stuff: http://www.yamaha-motor.com/yamalube/categories/engine-oils/1/2-stroke/10009/details#productscroll

[fliptuner]

I use it if I have a choice. Otherwise, I chuck whatever is free at work, in there.

[tarobbt]

I would stay away from seafoam, you either do it right and it works wonders or you fucked up your car and it runs like shit.

[bcrdukes]

The ~100km is probably exaggerated. But he seems really chipper and excited about it. Must've done something right
Posted via RS Mobile

Well, the weather is now getting slightly warmer. That may play a role into his results.

[a00755836]

i used lucas. Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant With Injector Cleaner | Canadian Tire (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/3/AutoFluidsChemicals/FuelTreatments/PRD~0380118P/Lucas+Upper+Cylinder+Lubricant+With+Injector+Clean er.jsp?locale=en)

i notice some gain in gas saving. after putting lucas, it took a long time for my full tank to reach half.

[Splinter]

I would stay away from seafoam, you either do it right and it works wonders or you fucked up your car and it runs like shit.

If you put it in your fuel nothing will go wrong.

If you put it in your intake and you do it wrong, you can have a problem. But you have to be pretty dumb to screw it up...

[tarobbt]

If you put it in your fuel nothing will go wrong.

If you put it in your intake and you do it wrong, you can have a problem. But you have to be pretty dumb to screw it up...

Sludge clogging fuel filters and lines :)

[Splinter]

Sludge clogging fuel filters and lines :)

So change your fuel filter? And I've worked on a LOT of cars and I've never heard of a sludged up fuel line. From a fuel system cleaner or otherwise.

[tarobbt]

So change your fuel filter? And I've worked on a LOT of cars and I've never heard of a sludged up fuel line. From a fuel system cleaner or otherwise.

You sure do sound like a mechanic. Oh hey, your car is clean of gunk now but nooowww you need a new filter, that will be parts + labour please.

Just cause you didn't have any issues with seafoam doesn't mean problems don't exist.

There are issues with seafoam search around the internet.

It works great, I'm not denying that fact. But the cost of just cleaning out your car isn't worth the hassle of replacing parts that went wrong.

[dared3vil0]

Gab, How much do you use? (2 stroke oil)

[Splinter]

You sure do sound like a mechanic. Oh hey, your car is clean of gunk now but nooowww you need a new filter, that will be parts + labour please.

Just cause you didn't have any issues with seafoam doesn't mean problems don't exist.

If your car is having problems, changing your fuel filter should be on the list of stuff to do anyway, lol. The only problems I've ever heard about seafoam are people incorrectly doing the intake treatment and conjecture about using it as an oil flush (I'm against the idea of oil flushes in general)

If you have enough crap built up in your system that an fuel treatment is going to make things worse, you were heading for disaster anyway. It was just a matter of time. This is the same mentality that gave us the myth that transmission flushes cause transmissions to fail.

[PJ]

You CAN also run it through your oil or intake (um, not brakes), but you don't have to

Yeah? I just read that its common to use in vacuum brake booster line. But, I'm not a mechanic, and I'll take your word for it ;)

So change your fuel filter? And I've worked on a LOT of cars and I've never heard of a sludged up fuel line. From a fuel system cleaner or otherwise.

Would you change the fuel filter before or after you run the cleaner?

I'm sure the difference is probably miniscule... as this whole process is anyway.

[Splinter]

Ohhh... the vac brake line... Yea... you could use that, but it's not a very good idea for a couple reasons. One is it's really big, so you can suck up a LOT of fluid really fast, causing hydraulic lock and broken parts. Two is it usually only feeds one cylinder. You should really use a vacuum line on the throttle plate, most cars have one for the evap system. Something tiny, 3/32 inches or so. That way there's practically zero risk of hydrolock.

I've never had to change a fuel filter after seafoaming a car, but I'm just saying if that did happen... change it. It's not a big deal to buy a $15 filter and change it!

[dangonay]

Waste of money. The only fuel injection cleaning that can give results is something like a Motorvac. For those who don't know what that is, it's a fuel injection flush machine. You dis-connect your engine from your fuel tank and connect it to the flush machine. Your engine runs on the fuel/cleaner mixture in the machine instead of gas in your tank. The machine has its own fuel pump/filter and it "replaces" your vehicles gas tank/fuel pump.

So instead of diluting your bottle of cleaner in a tank of gas, you're running a concentrated mixture from the flush machine. The cleaner used in a Motorvac is very strong and I've seen it eat/melt components if left for too long. It's not something that you should put in your gas tank for this reason. This is why it actually cleans injectors - because it's strong. When your flush is finished you connect your engine back to your gas tank and the "fresh" gas gets rid of the last traces of the cleaner so you don't have to worry about it contaminating your tank and damaging something later on.

That said, even this type of machine would never give anyone a 25% increase in mileage. I have seen noticeable and measurable improvements, but they are still minor.

The main reason I don't buy these 10% or 25% claims is because of how your fuelinjection system works (specifically the ECU). If your injectors are so badly plugged that your mileage goes down by that much then you're going to get a Check Engine Light with faults for things like fuel trim or misfires. If your engine runs ok, and there's no CEL on, then your injectors are ok. Maybe not perfect, but within spec. And since your ECU automatically adjusts itself over time to compensate for injectors, fuel pressure or other things that change, then "cleaning" them isn't going to make much if a difference.
Posted via RS Mobile

[PJ]

That said, even this type of machine would never give anyone a 25% increase in mileage. I have seen noticeable and measurable improvements, but they are still minor.
Posted via RS Mobile

Yeah, I'd be happy if any of this gave me even a ~10% increase. For $5 a bottle, why not?

But my friend who got the crazy increase won't shut up about it, so I'm assuming he's not lying. (What reason would he have to lie, anyway..)

My guess is it's because he's been so worked up about the bad mileage that he started replacing EVERYTHING. So maybe it's a combination of all the new parts and the warmer weather, and the injector cleaner was just that extra little kick to boost everything up to noticeable results.

[heleu]

Bike won't start after using NOS fuel additive : Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums: Gixxer.com (http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226570)

[sonick]

I just run Chevron gas when I can, then a bottle of Techron every few oil changes.

[Phil@rise]

If your seeing areal %25 improvment in mileage your cars musta ran like shit before hand

[GabAlmighty]

Gab, How much do you use? (2 stroke oil)

One quart per tank. Usually fill up at half tank'ish so i generally just eyeball about half each time I fill up.

[BEEB]

Hey Dangonay, just a quick question, do u think Toyota dealership would have actually used a motorvac machine when they charge $120+ for a fuel system cleaning? Or it's basically a $10 bottle in the tank with $110 labor ?
I didn't really pay attention to that cause it was my company car! But since u brought that up....

Waste of money. The only fuel injection cleaning that can give results is something like a Motorvac. For those who don't know what that is, it's a fuel injection flush machine. You dis-connect your engine from your fuel tank and connect it to the flush machine. Your engine runs on the fuel/cleaner mixture in the machine instead of gas in your tank. The machine has its own fuel pump/filter and it "replaces" your vehicles gas tank/fuel pump.

So instead of diluting your bottle of cleaner in a tank of gas, you're running a concentrated mixture from the flush machine. The cleaner used in a Motorvac is very strong and I've seen it eat/melt components if left for too long. It's not something that you should put in your gas tank for this reason. This is why it actually cleans injectors - because it's strong. When your flush is finished you connect your engine back to your gas tank and the "fresh" gas gets rid of the last traces of the cleaner so you don't have to worry about it contaminating your tank and damaging something later on.

That said, even this type of machine would never give anyone a 25% increase in mileage. I have seen noticeable and measurable improvements, but they are still minor.

The main reason I don't buy these 10% or 25% claims is because of how your fuelinjection system works (specifically the ECU). If your injectors are so badly plugged that your mileage goes down by that much then you're going to get a Check Engine Light with faults for things like fuel trim or misfires. If your engine runs ok, and there's no CEL on, then your injectors are ok. Maybe not perfect, but within spec. And since your ECU automatically adjusts itself over time to compensate for injectors, fuel pressure or other things that change, then "cleaning" them isn't going to make much if a difference.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dangonay]

^ I'd say they probably hooked up a machine. $120 is actually a good price as most places I know charge $150 and up. However, your car may have been "easy" to hook up so that's why they charged a little less.

[broken_arrow]

Been getting some rough idle lately and that's after I replaced my air filters and cleaned the MAFs. Added a 155ml bottle of Lucas injector cleaner yesterday at a fill up. Will report back if things get better.

[fliptuner]

Agreed, Motorvac is the best way to go but for DIY, I'd use the 3M system.

Pricewise, I know my shop was charging over $100, 10 years ago, so I'd double check with the service advisor to see what their fuel service includes.

[bcrdukes]

Been getting some rough idle lately and that's after I replaced my air filters and cleaned the MAFs. Added a 155ml bottle of Lucas injector cleaner yesterday at a fill up. Will report back if things get better.

Your car is relatively new'ish. I won't rule out your fuel injectors being dirty or clogged but even then...can't see it being a possibility.

[dangonay]

Been getting some rough idle lately and that's after I replaced my air filters and cleaned the MAFs. Added a 155ml bottle of Lucas injector cleaner yesterday at a fill up. Will report back if things get better.

You didn't get gas in the US, did you? We've been seeing a lot of new BMW's with rough running issues and traced the problems to US gas. A lot of stations are cheating by putting too much ethanol in their gas and not telling people. We had one guy come back and after testing his fuel he had over 50% alcohol. Also seen drivers with new M5's that had 15-20%. That's way too much and can cause all sorts of issues. I don't care how cheap gas is - I'm not going to risk ending up with a half tank of alcohol rotting my fuel lines or corroding my pump. There's a reason most new cars say max 10% - it's not good for many fuel system components. Vehicles that are flex-fuel (or E85) use materials that can handle the higher content.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dared3vil0]

Hey question, Not related to BMW's but if one has a "flex fuel" capable vehicle, will it be "bad" for it long term to run US gas which is quite high in ethanol?

[girlcrazy_420]

I'm in for any additive or gas saving teqniques. I get roughly 130km per 40 Liter fill.

[k3lv]

I'm in for any additive or gas saving teqniques. I get roughly 130km per 40 Liter fill.

wtf? Do you drive a Veyron? My evo gets crap mileage but even then its not 3.25km/L at your rate.

[PJ]

I'm in for any additive or gas saving teqniques. I get roughly 130km per 40 Liter fill.

What the eff?

You mean miles?
Still 130 miles is only 210km... :suspicious:

[broken_arrow]

My car is not that new (2008) and it has 80,000 kms on it.

I did notice that my car runs worse on US fuel. The only time I fill up in the US is when I go to Seattle though.. I like Chevron 94 the most, but Shell 91 does just fine (plus I get air miles). I knew that the Americans are screwing around with their gas!:troll: