[epicbeardman]

Budget: sub 18000$.

2006+ Civic Si
2007+ GTI
2007+ MazdaSpeed 3

So as you can see I'm going for a sporty car. Going to be for the occasional road trip, work commute and basic errands. Must be reliable in the long run (so input from owners is appreciated). I have driven the Si and it's fun as hell. The transmission is smooth, handles magnificently, and that exhaust note is awesome. Have never driven a VW, but I've heard the GTI is better than the SI and of course the Speed3 is just f*ckin fast (though I've heard is is kind of unreliably). Also, all the cars must be under 80,000kms.

[GabAlmighty]

Only if you show me a picture of your beard

[J89]

You need a RWD bro lol.

[Purely]

Mazda speed 3
Posted via RS Mobile

[IMASA]

I'm biased, but the speed3 will be the faster car in stock form. I wouldn't say it's unreliable, but of the 3, it probably is. It's not as refined as the other 2, especially if transmission shifting feel matters to you.

If you just want to slap on parts and not worry about anything, then the speed3 is probably not for you. It has some issues with the stock tune, probably what lead to the earlier blown motors. Other weaknesses are the stock HPFP, and intake valve build up due to being direct injection. The knock sensor is pretty sensitive, so even with Chevron 94, you will get some knock if running a Cobb 91/93 OTS map. The Cobb AP and learning to tune with ATR helps fix most of these tune related issues. The motor moves around quite a bit and the stock motor mounts aren't that great. You pretty much have to buy a bunch of parts to get the car running "right".

[vexor]

I too would say i'm a bit biased towards the Speed3 (use to work as a Mazda tech) and I have driven the GTi before, not an Si yet.

the Speed3 is stupidly fast and as far as reliability is concerned, if you leave it as stock and do regular maintenance then it shouldn't give u too many surprises in terms of fixes. If you can, try looking for a 2008.5+ , slightly better design on the interior and some mechanical improvements.

[dared3vil0]

If you're interested in the Civic Si, I have an 07 i wouldn't mind selling...
My short "review" on it is it's surprisingly quick (NOT FAST) it's got an awesome road feel, Stock Alcantara seats are hella comfy. If you're taller than 6'-6'2" you will have head clearance problems. 6MT trans is great, interior has a great layout. Fuel economy is decent. i get 25.2MPG 70% city 30% highway. **MUST USE PREMIUM** not sure if that's a turn off for you. If you're interested in mine, it's an 07 Si FG2 (2dr coupe) Alabaster Silver Metallic, 85,000KM just changed the oil and replaced front brakes. Can include a brand new set of summer tires and a set of snowies used for 1 season (8,000KM).

[bcrdukes]

Speed 3

[Energy]

GTI. Its more classy, refined and mature. You can chip it if you want more power.

[AVS_Racing]

I would pick speed 3.

[THORISHERE]

I love the SI! Very fun car, good gas milage, good back seats and great Honda reliability. This is the car to get!

The MazdaSpeed 3 is probably the fastest car, hatchback can fit lots but its has too much power for a FF imo (I drive a 250 hp FWD car).

The GTI probably is the most dynamic to drive but VW reliability and expensive parts scares me.

[LSF22]

Mazda Speed 3

[hud 91gt]

GTi no doubt. Read the reviews...

[nma]

I'd probably go with the GTI

[Geoc]

Not sure if deliberate collective troll but it seems like this thread is going to be 33/33/33 support for all 3 choices, which in the end would not help OP at all...

[a00755836]

speed3! the power!

[bcrdukes]

Long term + GTI. And if you get DSG?

Report to us after you rebuild the transmission. kthxbye.

[rk604]

Reliability and value = Civic
Comfort and ergonomics = GTI
Power = Mazdaspeed 3


I would go for the GTI as well…power will get old but comfort and ergo is something you'll enjoy for a longer period

[dinfung]

personally I will go for the GTI.

[nack]

gti hands down

[kohei]

MS3 for me.

[LP700-4]

Ive been looking at a GTI too and i dont think anything in that class can be as fun while being luxurious. German build quality + easy power mods.

Speed 3 would be second choice but doesnt that car have a lot of torque steer?

[jshek]

I'd pick the GTI

[Edison_Chen]

I'd go with an Civic Si

[Kidnapman]

MS3 FTMFW :h5:

[Wild_Penguin]

I have owned a 08 Si and now own a 2012 speed3 both of them I used as DD's.

I'll start with the Si. Mine had the HFP suspension and exhaust. It got great gas mileage in the city (I pretty much only drove city with this car). The Si is one of the nicest cars for shifts that I have never driven, you could blow on it and it would go in gear. In short it was a fun little car but nothing to write home about.

As for the Speed3 I love it. It's stock as of right now (Other then cosmetics). I bought it brand new and now sitting at 13,000KM's. The gas mileage isn't as good as the Si, but still not that bad. I love how much torque it has, starting off at light you don't need to touch the gas at all it just moves on it's own. The Speed3 by far handles better then the Si. Plus it fit's my large dog in the back no prob. But as said above the Speeds gear box sucks. You have to have a firm hand when shifting and (atleast in mine) 2nd gear is a pain untill it's fully warmed up.

So, in short I havn't driven a new GTI (only a old 90's one) but out of the Si and Speed3 I would pick the Speed3. It handles better, you can fit more into it, almost the same gas mileage, and potential for a lot more power!

[IMASA]

Just about any of these turbo FWD hot hatches will have issues with torque steer and traction. For the speed3, you can dial down the power by gear with a Cobb AP to help in 1st and 2nd. After market motor mounts help with wheel hop. It has an LSD so that helps a bit with traction.

[westopher]

I've driven both a speed 3, and a 2007 gti. While the speed 3 is faster, the gti was just more fun and had a better feeling fit and finish from the drivers seat. Before you say I'm biased because I own the gti, these test drives were when I was car shopping, and I chose the gti. Both were fun. The speed 3 was a 2009 and the gti I own is 07. I haven't had the car in the shop once other than oil changes and a recall with something, after putting on about 45k on top of the 45k it had when I bought it. After spending 500 bucks on flashing the ecu and before any other mods, a speed 3 is slower than my gti so thats no longer a downfall. Honestly though both are awesome cars, and the deciding factor was the fact I thought the gti looked a lot better, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't know much about the si but I think the price that the higher end civics go for is a bit out to lunch from being in friends civics. Also as someone said about the 3, the hatch is nice in both that and the gti. Hot young hipster broads like VW too so thats usually a plus. Go take some test drives, and keep an open mind, but I can tell you I really love my car, and unless a decently priced M3 or 135i fell into my lap I can't see getting rid of it soon.

[westopher]

Long term + GTI. And if you get DSG?

Report to us after you rebuild the transmission. kthxbye.
The huge dsg issues were with the mechatronic unit (whatever the fuck that is, I really don't follow or care to learn about the double clutch gearboxes as I hopefully will never own one) and were all replaced under recall, so it shouldn't be a huge issue. Regardless 6 speed is the way to go in these cars for the long term though.
Also I saw someone mention torque steer. Theres ways to chill it out a bit, but all high powered fwd cars suck for it out of the box.

[IMASA]

How much hp/torque do chipped GTI's run with BC gas?

[westopher]

I haven't had mine dyno'd. My tune is supposed to be 246hp and 283tq on 91. Gonna go stage 2 this year when I get around to getting a turbo back exhaust instead of this shitty catback. The difference before and after the chip was like a totally different car. Stg 2 is like 260/305+ and all you really need is an aftermarket downpipe for hardware.

[nabs]

if i had a choice between those three i would go GTI

[IMASA]

Seems like a chipped GTI is about the same as a speed3 with an Cobb AP tune. Both are probably knocked limited on our local gas. I dyno'd my speed3 2 yrs ago on a Dynojet, got 273hp/311tq on a Cobb OTS tune, while the ECU was pulling 3-4 degrees of timing due to knock. I'd estimate I'm around 295hp/325tq based on my data logs on my current tune with methanol injection.

[westopher]

The gti is limited to about 280hp/330tq by its ko3 with a stg2+ tune which needs turbo back, intake and hfpf. Ko4 kits can be had for 1800 though then we are looking at the 330/340 range for hp, and locally cts turbo is a really experienced vw/audi tuner with worldwide notoriety. I think we are both getting ahead of ourselves now though:fullofwin:

[1990TSI]

i"ve driven/worked on all 3, and from my experience...

the Mazda is the fast one
the Honda is the reliable one
the GTI is the one uncle hitler drives to the shop to get fixed

I'd go mazda for pure performance, Honda for peice of mind and still have a sporty car.. and the gti if i fell on a patch of ice and became slightly retarded.

[westopher]

I guess I got a lemon from the gti tree then.

[Shorn]

I would also take a look at some rwd cars in your price range, a g35 comes to mind, as well as the last gen TL although that's not rwd.

Unless you're set on these cars in which case I would vote for speed 3

[vantrip]

You want reliability so I would stick to the SI

[The_AK]

Clearly the right choice is the Ford F150

http://usedcars.shopwilsons.com/Portals/184384/images/ford%20f150.jpg

The F-Series is a series of full-size pickup trucks from Ford Motor Company which has been sold continuously for over six decades. The most popular variant of the F-Series is the F-150. It was the best-selling vehicle in the United States for 24 years, currently (2007) the best-selling truck for 37 years, and the best selling vehicle in Canada, though this does not include combined sales of GM pickup trucks. In the tenth generation of the F-series, the F-250 and F-350 changed body style in 1998 and joined the Super Duty series.

[Gtrr33]

mazdaspeed 3 hands down.

civics low hp, a kids car
vw gti, problems problems problems, parts are expensive and a bit more power from civic but fuck no lulz
mazdaspeed 3..... turbo, 4 doors for more whores, turbo, great bang for the money, did i say turbo already?

[Gazorcoop]

mazdaspeed 3 hands down.

civics low hp, a kids car
vw gti, problems problems problems, parts are expensive and a bit more power from civic but fuck no lulz
mazdaspeed 3..... turbo, 4 doors for more whores, turbo, great bang for the money, did i say turbo already?

Civic being a "kid's car" is saying as much as BMW's being "C-lai" cars.

In my honest opinion, after have driven the Civic Si and a Speed3, I personally would go for the Speed3 since the Si has a lack of options (if it matters to you). Torque steer is big in the Speed3, but the Si lacks serious torque. I've even had the chance to drive a supercharged Si once, and that one still required me to shift at around 3.5k rpm to keep up with rush hour accelerating traffic.

VW would be nice with a chip tune.

[bcrdukes]

i"ve driven/worked on all 3, and from my experience...

the Mazda is the fast one
the Honda is the reliable one
the GTI is the one uncle hitler drives to the shop to get fixed

I'd go mazda for pure performance, Honda for peice of mind and still have a sporty car.. and the gti if i fell on a patch of ice and became slightly retarded.

I think this can be summed up as easily as this:

Cheap + Reliable =/= Fast - Civic
Fast + Reliable =/= Cheap - Speed 3
None of the above - GTI

[no_pistons7]

go with the speed3, mine just had a engine replaced through mazda cuz the dealership i got it from was useing cheap gas when it was on there lot so im guessing that hurt the engine and it blew up a few weeks after i got it when my gf was on a road trip to quesnel....keep up with maintenance use 94 and itll treat you right...the performance is good for a daily driver, roomy and comfy to drive, its shifting isnt that great like someone else said, 2nd gear is notchy until the car is fully warm and then it shifts good, that is my only complaint with the car but other then that it is a great car and i recommend it to anyone...its also surprisingly good in the snow with snow tires.

[ilvtofu]

IIRC 08 GTI has a better engine than the 07. That DSG is really a fun gearbox and the car feels extremely planted. IMO the rear is less twitchy than the civic, and the car is really fun and easy to drive at it's grip limit, however out of all 3 it's probably the worst to take out on the track. The chassis is rock solid but you have to live with it to really experience its merits.

that being said my vote goes for a 4 door civic. It's a great all rounder and prices are excellent. Honda parts are cheaper and the second hand parts market is decent.

[KO7]

I was choosing between the three and ended up with the Civic Si, mostly due to NA/Honda reliability.

If I could do it all over again, I'd probably go with a GTI DSG w/ extended warranty, despite the reliability concerns + higher price tag. I would much prefer its hatch bodystyle for practicality, and DSG for commuting in rush hour traffic. Plus the GTI interior is WAY nicer than the MS3.

I've invested enough in the Civic Si to keep it for a while, but I'll most likely go with a GTI DSG next time around, unless Subaru makes a dual-clutch auto for their next WRX hatch.

[dared3vil0]

^ I bought an Si myself, If i could do it all over again i would of bought none of the three. I'd of bought something rwd. Probably a Z

[EvoFire]

I looked at all three. I ended up with a MS3. I think if I didn't buy the MS3, I would have picked a Si, not the 2012 mind you, it would have to be the last gen Si.

If you need it to be auto, then GTI is the only one you can get. If you want the GTI then only get the DSG. I'm really not a big fan of the shifter and clutch in the GTI.

If you get the MS3, there are a few things you HAVE to do before the car is enjoyable. Rear motor mount, short shift plate, and shifter bushings.

The new 2012 Si's only have VTEC on the exhaust cam, and the the exhaust manifold is casted together with the head so you can't swap headers. Many fails on the new car. Not to mention the steering is way too light and the body roll is ridiculous. A last gen Civic LX has less body roll than that thing.

[dared3vil0]

2011 or older Si is a must.

[Klondike]

GTI. You won't regret it.

[flagella]

Ive been looking at a GTI too and i dont think anything in that class can be as fun while being luxurious. German build quality + easy power mods.

Speed 3 would be second choice but doesnt that car have a lot of torque steer?

German build quality? rofl

[dvst8]

speed3

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

1995 Toyota Supra 5 speed - 2JZE 45,000 original kms only (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/3689545999.html)
Or
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/cto/3633806882.html

[dared3vil0]

Naturally Aspirated RHD Supra? :fuckthatshit:

[jmanhas]

the e39 m5 will kill his wallet on maintenance alone

[bcrdukes]

1995 Toyota Supra 5 speed - 2JZE 45,000 original kms only (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/3689545999.html)
Or
2001 BMW M5 Titanium Silver (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/cto/3633806882.html)

With OP's budget of $18K, he can haggle the Supra to be purchased at $8500 and then pour the remainder of his budget in fixing the car.

As for the E39 - He'll go broke.

[tofu1413]

The new 2012 Si's only have VTEC on the exhaust cam, and the the exhaust manifold is casted together with the head so you can't swap headers.

not to defend the 9th gen as much as I dont like them, but not true. Skunk2 has a "header" for that thing... and the gains are retarded good.

2011 or older Si is a must.

or a 13+ :ilied:




Four door Si = cheap and reliable... although not that fast. good sleeper somewhat, as most R18 guys would have a Civic that looks more like an Si than an actual Si... *cough* very good on gas. runs like a clock. car hasnt given me any problems at all, although it did spend about a month in the shop after a heavy rear ender.

MS3 is another car altogether, it is faster and fancier. Its the hoodscoop and grin i dont really dig... the motor itself has pretty awesome power and torque. Haven't lived with one yet though, so no idea how they are on the long run.

[S13SRiding]

Test drove all 3, quite liked the GTI but the ms3 won my heart. Not all that great on fuel, but its so comfortable, stupid fun to drive, the gains you can get with simple mods are outstanding. And I love the sleeper status of it. Not too many people know what the ms3 is capable of. All together I wouldn't have changed my decision.
Posted via RS Mobile

[PJ]

I'd get the SI. Better on gas. Probably insurance too. Lower ownership costs all around. Reliable daily driver that doesn't require constant attention.

But that's just me. Maybe I'm getting old. I don't do enough spirited driving to justify getting the finnicky-fancy MS3.

Don't know much about VW's so I won't comment on that.

[beproud]

All good cars but I will Ho with the gti, something I see myself keeping longer eh
Posted via RS Mobile

[E60_M5]

GTI hands down. The interior and build quality is much better.

[dared3vil0]

GTI hands down. The interior and build quality is much better.

Does this happen to be your car? :troll:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p176/5TonneTruck/Misc/IMG_2403_zps91c9d8c4.jpg

[Fafine]

im going to recommend a 2008 accord v6 mt
it's got enough power and its very spacious

best of all, it requires only 87 grade gas.

[valent|n0]

any reason why WRX is not considered?

[Great68]

As far as reliability goes, I haven't had any real problems in my 4 years with my Speed 3

(Had the radio firmware updated, and had a recall to put an extra ground wire on the wiper motor)

*knocks on wood*

And the whole torque steer thing is way overrated. Lift some weights.

[melloman]

My vote goes to the Speed3.

I've lived the "euro lemon experience" and it wasn't fun. It was ridiculously costly but atleast when your ass raped, the interior is comfortable. :thumbsup:

My opinion:

Si = reliable
Speed3 = fast
GTI = Comfort

[tofu1413]

2010 Mazda Speed3 Mazdaspeed 3 60K blue CERTIFIED Mazda Speed (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/ctd/3661652466.html)

pretty funky green

[Great68]

2010 Mazda Speed3 Mazdaspeed 3 60K blue CERTIFIED Mazda Speed (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/ctd/3661652466.html)

pretty funky green

:suspicious: you color blind? That's celestial blue...

[dared3vil0]

2010 Mazda Speed3 Mazdaspeed 3 60K blue CERTIFIED Mazda Speed (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rch/ctd/3661652466.html)

pretty funky green

Tofu, I think you've been smoking too much green. That's blue.

[Jabby]

I have much love for the newer GTI's but i've always wanted a 2006 - 2010 Honda Civic SI. It may not out perform the other two but as OP said reliability is a requirement and the Honda wins this catagory hands down while still being relatively fun to drive. Put me down for the SI. =)

[dogeatcookie]

GTI, and once you go German you can never go back

Although there's a chance that your wallet would suffer greatly (more so if you start modifying it), but I'd say it's for a good cause :fuckthatshit:

[E60_M5]

Does this happen to be your car? :troll:
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p176/5TonneTruck/Misc/IMG_2403_zps91c9d8c4.jpg

NO..:failed:...ruined

[1990TSI]

can someone photoshop a swastika made out of canadian 100 dollar bills like the 3 wolf moon picture, but with adolfs face and a gti front profile picture?

that might explain VW ownership better

[epicbeardman]

Wow so many responses. Where to begin? So it seems that the Speed 3 is in the lead with the GTI and Civic tied for 2nd. I haven't gotten around to driving a S3 or GTI yet due to school, but I will report my findings when I get back. Really appreciate the responses from the people who have owned or driven each of these cars. First to address some questions/suggestions:

the M5: gonna kill my wallet.
the Supra: N/A :(
RWD cars: Looked at some G35 coupes but those that are under 20k have way to many KMs and those over 20k are out of my budget. Also not really interested in cars older than 7 yrs/ especially when I am going to shell out 20k.
My ideal car would be an IS300 with under 80,000kms or a g35 coupe in MT with the same KMs. Not interested in Z's. know 2 people with them; NOTHING but problems.

AWD: Lancer Evos X way out of my budget. Evo 9s are impossible to find. WRXs under 20k are few and far between , or have too many KMs. STI is of course an impossibility. I can drive LHD, but my GF can't so unfortunately no imported AWDs.

questions for those with the GTI or have had one / familiar with one: what kind of problems/costs am I looking at for 07-08s (Mk5?). I heard of coil packs dying (huge issue), but any other problems? Turbo issues?

Question for the civic si people: the biggest downside of the SI in this battle is its lack of power compared to the S3 and GTI. In reliability it is of course the leader. But, the S3 and GTi are also a few thousand more expensive. So...

SI with the usual I/H/E and flashpro- can it keep up with stock GTI and S3? Maybe with the money I save I can put it towards that.

Thanks again for the answers and sorry for more questions

[icemiko]

I had a 07 Si before, it's a good daily driver, I got around 400-450 KM / tank and it was reliable, didn't have any problems with the car. It's fun reving to 8000 rpm and the K Series engine has a lot of mods available. What I didn't like about the Si was that it was torque less, gears wasn't short enough (you can fix this with a short shifter though) and the understeer.

I have driven a 2012 Gti (auto) too, it's faster then the Si but it didn't handle as well as I thought it would have and as a lot of people mentioned, the maintenance is going to be expensive.

[jonnymooshoo]

I'll throw another into the ring, at your budget you can get a clean VW MK4 R32. I bought mine for $17,500. Even if you don't mod it, it'll be a very reliable daily and extremely fun to drive. Also known to have one of the best exhaust notes on the street.

3.2L 24v VR6
237hp 236lb-ft
All wheel drive

Super rare, only 5000 made for the US market. Then again I'm super biased :fullofwin: but if I had the money, that's the VW I would buy. (I did)

This one is on the market... it's supercharged though so he may be asking a little more http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/3688235157.html

There's also a few on Seattle Craigslist from $12k-$15k which gives you some room for mods.

If you're still not convinced, probably the best GTI on the market right now is Curtis'

http://www.staticcaptains.com/project/oettinger-mark-five/

For sale thread
http://dubberz.com/forum/index.php/topic,64633.0.html

It's $19995 obo but pretty much everything you want to do to a GTI has been done on this.

[peazs]

im going to recommend a 2008 accord v6 mt
it's got enough power and its very spacious

best of all, it requires only 87 grade gas.

Speaking of which, this is exactly what I am selling!

Link: http://www.revscene.net/forums/679770-fs-2008-honda-accord-coupe-ex-l-v6-6spd-mt-rare-w-hfp-body-kit.html

If interested, please let me know. Very spacious, lots of power, and yes, only requires Octane 87.

[hkRicer]

gti for sure

[monkeywrench]

GTI is expensive down the road maintenance wise. Keeping the DSG running is pricey. Let alone if something goes wrong with anything DSG related, it will rape your wallet. Especially if you plan to keep the car past the warranty period

[DouMing]

I drive a CSX type S, which is basically the same as the SI except i have leather seats haha... Anyway, to answer your question - I think it really depends on how YOU drive. Technically, any car can be "fast" if you're willing to push down on the gas pedal.

If you opt for the cheaper SI, you can spend the difference in money in a flashpro, exhaust, header and you'll probably be happy with that if power really is a concern to you. But if you enjoy spirited driving and like being pulled back in your seat instantaneously, the stock SI will not do that... You're not tracking or anything with the car, DD, going for trips, random errands- I would say that the SI is the right car for you (like it was for me because of my lifestyle).

[djstyles]

As an 07 GTI owner I would say the GTI, lol. But if you have to buy one used I would suggest an 08.5+ model as those ones have the revised TSI motor as opposed to the FSI of the 06-08. I would also suggest if you were to get a manual GTI the 06-08 have a stronger clutch than the 08.5-09 models. If you get the 08.5-09 models I would suggest the DSG unless you are either staying stock or willing to replace the OEM clutch with an aftermarket one. If you aren't scared of a little maintenance the FSI is a great motor and mine has been putting along for 6 years now with no major issues! My stock turbo APR Stage 2+ put down 229whp and 274wtq on a Mustang dyno about a 1.5 years ago.

[BBMme]

so what did you buy? my pick goes to the GTI

[gilly]

drove a 07 gti for over a year. super nice interior, and has decent power but if you want reliability, you should probably stick with the si or ms3. Had constant problems with the coils... had to bring it back to dealership several times.