[dared3vil0]

So i'm looking at a 2013 wrangler sport, with A/C, automatic trans, 3.73 gears, the connectivity package and a hard top. So far the dealer is at $24,000, with an MSRP of $28,000. What would be considered a "good" price? Thanks guys.

[tofu1413]

4 grand off msrp on a new car in that price range is not bad...

prepare to bend over for those "fees"

[dared3vil0]

4 grand off msrp on a new car in that price range is not bad...

prepare to bend over for those "fees"

Oh, Don't worry i already said if throw anything other then the federal A/C tax on it i'm walking. I do not pay "doc" fees. If they want to work it into the price, go right ahead.

[tofu1413]

why a wrangler though.. lol. im guessing its a base..?

it is a nice truck, but im not sure if you'd like to live with one.

[dared3vil0]

why a wrangler though.. lol. im guessing its a base..?

it is a nice truck, but im not sure if you'd like to live with one.

I want to heavily get into off roading, And i test drove one tonight it seemed fine? Going to be a sport S with a hardtop, Automatic, A/C, Connectivity package etc seemed pretty decent tbh

[donjalapeno]

Friend bought a brand new wrangler spent all his savings on it....next month he traded it for a 1 series base 6spd because he couldnt stand driving it anymore. Its fun and cool at first but trust me you will get sick and tired of it like all american cars (IMO). If you really want to get into off roading i suggest this....

FJ Cruiser, 2007 Toyota (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/3548625235.html)

and with the money you save and the money you were going to spend making it a off roader make it look like this...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/toyota-fj-cruiser/488526-all-your-fj-pics-post-up-063.jpg

[NoiZeeBoy]

Wait for the HEMI...word is within a model year or so...or you could take it down south for a conversion.
Tofu above said something about not liking living w one...the new Wranglers with the pentastar and nicer suspension are actually pretty decent daily drivers now. Much better pep in the midrange and way more carlike! Ive driven one recently after reading reviews and I have to agree they are even better than the 2012's.

[dared3vil0]

Wait for the HEMI...word is within a model year or so...or you could take it down south for a conversion.
Tofu above said something about not liking living w one...the new Wranglers with the pentastar and nicer suspension are actually pretty decent daily drivers now. Much better pep in the midrange and way more carlike! Ive driven one recently after reading reviews and I have to agree they are even better than the 2012's.

I test drove a 2008 and turned around after a half mile it was horrible! With the 2013, the 290hp pentastar and the couple luxury options it has it was really a good ride...

[NoiZeeBoy]

I test drove a 2008 and turned around after a half mile it was horrible! With the 2013, the 290hp pentastar and the couple luxury options it has it was really a good ride...

LOL!
Huge difference right?
I am so tempted to get a wrangler now after driving the '13. But the HEMI will be a game changer for sure.
Chrysler's CEO is rumored to be using one prototype Hemi Wrangler as one of his DD's. This is a huge sign it will make it into production.

[NoiZeeBoy]

Friend bought a brand new wrangler spent all his savings on it....next month he traded it for a 1 series base 6spd because he couldnt stand driving it anymore. Its fun and cool at first but trust me you will get sick and tired of it like all american cars (IMO). If you really want to get into off roading i suggest this....

FJ Cruiser, 2007 Toyota (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/3548625235.html)

and with the money you save and the money you were going to spend making it a off roader make it look like this...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/toyota-fj-cruiser/488526-all-your-fj-pics-post-up-063.jpg

not a bad suggestion!!!
but does that thing have decent HP and torque? I never looked into it.
Sat in one once, and couldn't see out the back, thats my one memory from FJ. But as long as you've got a rubberneck or some nice bypassed rear video cams, you're good!

[dared3vil0]

I don't like the Fj at all, Too expensive for me new, and i want a new truck this time around. And offroad a wrangler will always be better then an Fj. And the new wrangler is alot faster than an fj.

[NoiZeeBoy]

That's what I'm talking' bout! In this thing, you would never need to look back!!! Just mow down everything in front of you! LOL!
http://forum.ih8mud.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=357592&d=1253739029

[NoiZeeBoy]

I don't like the Fj at all, Too expensive for me new, and i want a new truck this time around. And offroad a wrangler will always be better then an Fj. And the new wrangler is alot faster than an fj.

Oh, there you go...I didn't know if it had any guts, I guess not.
And true they are pricey if you want new.

[Akinari]

The FJ is much easier to live with, and significantly more tame on the road than the Wrangler. I'd highly suggest looking at certified pre-owned FJs over a new Wrangler any day.

[dared3vil0]

Oh, there you go...I didn't know if it had any guts, I guess not.
And true they are pricey if you want new.

Yeah. I really couldn't believe how quick the new wrangler was. Salesman told me i can "see how much power it had" boy, did i ever take that to heart. :badpokerface:

But yeah, the FJ is down 30 horsepower.

[dared3vil0]

The FJ is much easier to live with, and significantly more tame on the road than the Wrangler. I'd highly suggest looking at certified pre-owned FJs over a new Wrangler any day.

Have you driven a 2012 or 2013? it's truly night and day.

[tofu1413]

Friend bought a brand new wrangler spent all his savings on it....next month he traded it for a 1 series base 6spd because he couldnt stand driving it anymore. Its fun and cool at first but trust me you will get sick and tired of it like all american cars (IMO). If you really want to get into off roading i suggest this....

FJ Cruiser, 2007 Toyota (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/3548625235.html)

and with the money you save and the money you were going to spend making it a off roader make it look like this...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/toyota-fj-cruiser/488526-all-your-fj-pics-post-up-063.jpg

This. I had a customer trading in 12 wrangler unlimited rubicon last month after driven only 4 months or so... like he told me: "it was nice at first. then after that, I really didnt like it..."

so he traded in a brand spanking new truck... for the last Frontier Pro-4x I had in stock.


Tofu above said something about not liking living w one...the new Wranglers with the pentastar and nicer suspension are actually pretty decent daily drivers now. Much better pep in the midrange and way more carlike! Ive driven one recently after reading reviews and I have to agree they are even better than the 2012's.

They do drive nice, I agree, but not something that id live with.

[dared3vil0]

Fair enough. I'm driving an 07 FG2 right now... I'm not liking it. It's small, drones way too much for me even with stock exhaust, tired of not being able to go off road, and tired of getting stuck in 5 inches of snow. Wrangler just suits my needs i guess... Unless you wanted to hook me up with a 2013 Xterra for a similar price? :badpokerface:

[Akinari]

Have you driven a 2012 or 2013? it's truly night and day.
Yup, I actually just recently had a chance to drive a 2012 Wrangler. I still prefer the FJ.

[Volvo-brickster]

someone say HEMI ?

never going to production...though

http://image.off-roadweb.com/f/18942793+w750+st0/0908or_18_z+moab_2009+lower_forty.jpg

[tofu1413]

Fair enough. I'm driving an 07 FG2 right now... I'm not liking it. It's small, drones way too much for me even with stock exhaust, tired of not being able to go off road, and tired of getting stuck in 5 inches of snow. Wrangler just suits my needs i guess... Unless you wanted to hook me up with a 2013 Xterra for a similar price? :badpokerface:

wrangler would be a different noise :badpokerface:


uh, xterra pricing would be no where close, although the MSRP has been reduced for 2013...

it all depends on if you are cash or finance: cash has a bigger incentive.

are you going to be trading in your FG2? I do have a 09' xterra with offroad package for about 29 grand...

[dared3vil0]

wrangler would be a different noise :badpokerface:


uh, xterra pricing would be no where close, although the MSRP has been reduced for 2013...

it all depends on if you are cash or finance: cash has a bigger incentive.

are you going to be trading in your FG2? I do have a 09' xterra with offroad package for about 29 grand...

I know the the xterra isn't close that was my point. The wrangler is in my price range with what i need. And yes i'll be trading in the fg2.

[ilvtofu]

The FJ visibility is pretty appalling, definitely form > function on their part, the engine makes a lot of noise but doesn't feel very powerful IMO.
If the OP has test driven the new wrangler and likes it I would leave it at that, feel is very subjective and even though there are some unhappy wrangler owners I know there are also a lot of loyal and satisfied owners.
The front axle on the Jeep has some major pros and cons but like I said, if OP likes it that's what matters. I strongly prefer the FJ's ride but that is irrelevant.

IMO the 4k off sticker is pretty good, these cars hold their value reasonably well, especially compared to other SUVs

[dared3vil0]

The FJ visibility is pretty appalling, definitely form > function on their part, the engine makes a lot of noise but doesn't feel very powerful IMO.
If the OP has test driven the new wrangler and likes it I would leave it at that, feel is very subjective and even though there are some unhappy wrangler owners I know there are also a lot of loyal and satisfied owners.
The front axle on the Jeep has some major pros and cons but like I said, if OP likes it that's what matters. I strongly prefer the FJ's ride but that is irrelevant.

IMO the 4k off sticker is pretty good, these cars hold their value reasonably well, especially compared to other SUVs

Exactly what i was trying to say, and the 4k off was offered price. I haven't even negotiated yet.

[Akinari]

The FJ visibility is pretty appalling, definitely form > function on their part, the engine makes a lot of noise but doesn't feel very powerful IMO.
If the OP has test driven the new wrangler and likes it I would leave it at that, feel is very subjective and even though there are some unhappy wrangler owners I know there are also a lot of loyal and satisfied owners.
The front axle on the Jeep has some major pros and cons but like I said, if OP likes it that's what matters. I strongly prefer the FJ's ride but that is irrelevant.

Toyotas 4.0L V6 engines are rather loud, reminiscent of Ford's old 4.0L V6 engines, and unfortunately they're not too powerful, like you say. I guess it really depends on what you'll be using the truck for? The FJ is the all around more livable choice, whereas the Wrangler is a more "fun" choice.

[tofu1413]

yep. full load pro-4x (bilstein shocks, skid plates, shorter final drive, aux lights, tranny cooler) is about 37k without incentives..... haha. 10k out of your price range!

although I do find it a bit more civilized than the jeep (no bias opinion, im not crazy into trucks)

[Brianrietta]

I want to heavily get into off roading

The regulars of the SUV/4x4 forum and I can help identify exactly what you need but firstly, what precisely do you intend on doing with the truck? Does it have to be a rock crawler/mud slinger/snow chucker/trail rider... Do you need storage capacity to be able to sustain longer trips/any trips? In order to go camping with more than two people and any amount of gear or just two people and a lot of gear you will need a trailer. I packed my Jeeps very efficiently and still was unable to carry the gear that I'd wanted. Keep that in mind.

I don't like the Fj at all, Too expensive for me new, and i want a new truck this time around. And offroad a wrangler will always be better then an Fj. And the new wrangler is alot faster than an fj.

Offroad a RUBICON is approximately a match for an FJ Cruiser. Even comparing the two isn't really fair though. There will always be obstacles that suit a wider tracked or longer vehicle and obstacles that suit a small vehicle. There are places that an H1 will go that an FJ won't, and your mighty Wrangler will get stuck in places a $2000.00 Samurai will pass with ease. It's okay to say that FJ's are too expensive but they're every bit the equal of the Jeep (and I say that having happily owned many Jeeps over the years - yes I know I haven't owned a 2013 but the fundamental problems still exist: they're tippy, squirrely in slippery conditions if you have offroad tires thanks to the tiny wheelbase, lack of storage space, tradeoff between doors/roof off fun and not being coated in mud/bugs/etc, questionable secure storage space inside).

The FJ is much easier to live with, and significantly more tame on the road than the Wrangler. I'd highly suggest looking at certified pre-owned FJs over a new Wrangler any day.

I tend to agree. I feel strongly that the FJ will be a more reliable vehicle long term and I can't agree enough that they're much nicer to drive on road in terms of it's driving characteristics. The downside of no sunroof/removable roof are offset from an airflow perspective by the tailgate window which when I had down provided a ton of air into the cabin.

Fair enough. I'm driving an 07 FG2 right now... I'm not liking it. It's small, drones way too much for me even with stock exhaust, tired of not being able to go off road, and tired of getting stuck in 5 inches of snow. Wrangler just suits my needs i guess... Unless you wanted to hook me up with a 2013 Xterra for a similar price? :badpokerface:

I don't even know what I'm rambling about anymore but I'll conclude with the Wrangler is an awesome vehicle but don't be fooled by the salespeople. Until you get into a Rubicon trim and/or upgrade a ton of stuff you aren't 'that' capable offroads. Remember that the Trail Rated emblem is on the side of the Liberty too. Although it's a beast offroads. :ilied: To be frank if you want to do some serious offroading what you do is you keep your city driving car/suv/whatever and you build an older vehicle to your whatever your necessity may be. You could spend 25k on a Wrangler, 40k on a Rubicon, 50k on a Trail Teams FJ, or (generously) spend 5-10k on a 4Runner/Land Cruiser/1st gen Xterra/TJ/etc/etc/etc with 8k into mods and be more capable and you won't shed tears every time you scratch it or break something. Because you will break things. Anyways a stock Wrangler will probably take you more places than you may think but the upgrade bug will hit or a big rock will hit and I don't even know what I'm saying I'm pretty tired so yeah :suspicious:

[dared3vil0]

The regulars of the SUV/4x4 forum and I can help identify exactly what you need but firstly, what precisely do you intend on doing with the truck? Does it have to be a rock crawler/mud slinger/snow chucker/trail rider... Do you need storage capacity to be able to sustain longer trips/any trips? In order to go camping with more than two people and any amount of gear or just two people and a lot of gear you will need a trailer. I packed my Jeeps very efficiently and still was unable to carry the gear that I'd wanted. Keep that in mind.



Offroad a RUBICON is approximately a match for an FJ Cruiser. Even comparing the two isn't really fair though. There will always be obstacles that suit a wider tracked or longer vehicle and obstacles that suit a small vehicle. There are places that an H1 will go that an FJ won't, and your mighty Wrangler will get stuck in places a $2000.00 Samurai will pass with ease. It's okay to say that FJ's are too expensive but they're every bit the equal of the Jeep (and I say that having happily owned many Jeeps over the years - yes I know I haven't owned a 2013 but the fundamental problems still exist: they're tippy, squirrely in slippery conditions if you have offroad tires thanks to the tiny wheelbase, lack of storage space, tradeoff between doors/roof off fun and not being coated in mud/bugs/etc, questionable secure storage space inside).



I tend to agree. I feel strongly that the FJ will be a more reliable vehicle long term and I can't agree enough that they're much nicer to drive on road in terms of it's driving characteristics. The downside of no sunroof/removable roof are offset from an airflow perspective by the tailgate window which when I had down provided a ton of air into the cabin.



I don't even know what I'm rambling about anymore but I'll conclude with the Wrangler is an awesome vehicle but don't be fooled by the salespeople. Until you get into a Rubicon trim and/or upgrade a ton of stuff you aren't 'that' capable offroads. Remember that the Trail Rated emblem is on the side of the Liberty too. Although it's a beast offroads. :ilied: To be frank if you want to do some serious offroading what you do is you keep your city driving car/suv/whatever and you build an older vehicle to your whatever your necessity may be. You could spend 25k on a Wrangler, 40k on a Rubicon, 50k on a Trail Teams FJ, or (generously) spend 5-10k on a 4Runner/Land Cruiser/1st gen Xterra/TJ/etc/etc/etc with 8k into mods and be more capable and you won't shed tears every time you scratch it or break something. Because you will break things. Anyways a stock Wrangler will probably take you more places than you may think but the upgrade bug will hit or a big rock will hit and I don't even know what I'm saying I'm pretty tired so yeah :suspicious:

Trust me, I'm not thinking a stock wrangler with those pathetic tires they come with are off road capable. I'm not going to be rock crawling, but i want to run some of the local trails, head out to stave, do some island wheeling i've seen/heard/read about, i NEED deep snow ability, i love the idea of no top and no doors, tire wise i'm going to be running a 33" DuraTrac, and a 2" old man emu lift. Most likely going to upgrade to 35" KM2's and a 4 inch TeraFlex lift, with ARB air lockers front and rear, and a warn 9000, possibly going to a dana 44 front. once i get this payed off, and a daily driver.

[dared3vil0]

Toyotas 4.0L V6 engines are rather loud, reminiscent of Ford's old 4.0L V6 engines, and unfortunately they're not too powerful, like you say. I guess it really depends on what you'll be using the truck for? The FJ is the all around more livable choice, whereas the Wrangler is a more "fun" choice.

Exactly.

[Brianrietta]

Trust me, I'm not thinking a stock wrangler with those pathetic tires they come with are off road capable. I'm not going to be rock crawling, but i want to run some of the local trails, head out to stave, do some island wheeling i've seen/heard/read about, i NEED deep snow ability, i love the idea of no top and no doors, tire wise i'm going to be running a 33" DuraTrac, and a 2" old man emu lift. Most likely going to upgrade to 35" KM2's and a 4 inch TeraFlex lift, with ARB air lockers front and rear, and a warn 9000, possibly going to a dana 44 front. once i get this payed off, and a daily driver.

Sounds like you've got a decent idea of it's perks and limitations. I haven't looked at new pricing since probably 09 so I really don't know the costing but I wouldn't expect until they start to clear out the 13's that you'd be able to get it too much lower. I dunno though. Good luck and see you on the trails!