[Gululu]

http://i.imgur.com/JEbzb9f.jpg


Next week, applications will open online for UBC Vantage College, an on-campus college for international students who do not meet UBC’s English language requirements.

The program is intended to increase the diversity of the student body and to fill gaps in UBC’s central budget. Students will spend 12 months in the program, taking either arts, physical sciences, or computational sciences, and then make the transition to second-year Arts or Science.

Students who attend the college will take existing UBC courses, but these courses will be structured somewhat differently to accommodate students in the college. These courses will teach the same material as regular UBC classes, and so will be counted as the same on university transcripts, according to Vantage College principal James Ridge.

Tuition fees for the college are $40,000, and the college’s website places the cost of the entire year at $61,700. There is a supplemental tuition fee of $5,000 for any student who has to extend their enrollment in the program to 16 months due to either failing a course or requiring additional language support.

Recruitment for the college will be done by existing international recruiters for UBC. The college also has their own recruiting team that will focus on some of their initial target countries — specifically Vietnam, Brazil and Turkey.

Ridge confirmed that, with the exception of English language scores, admission requirements will be “identical or comparable” to current admission requirements for international undergraduate students.

“The students we are taking have to be as academically capable or more so than all of our other direct-entry international students,” said Ridge.

After an initial screening of high school grades, admissions will be determined by a team of Vantage College staff who as a group will review all applicants.

“There’s been huge interest in the college from around the world,” said Ridge. “We’re somewhat unique in that we’re not sort of an arms-length program that’s run with a private sector partner. The fact that we have UBC faculty, UBC courses, that we’re an integral academic unit at a university of our status has sparked a lot of interest in our program.”

:lawl:

[dinosaur]

And we wonder why we have these>>> http://www.revscene.net/forums/687561-language-problem-mcdonalds-becomes-charter-rights-freedoms-issue.html problems.

[Gridlock]

TL;DR

We invented a new program to take existing products, in existing buildings and package it up in a way that we can get $40,000 fucking dollars out of rich kids from Brazil, Vietnam and Turkey.

(still)TL;(still)DR

Good-bye budget problems.

[Energy]

Tuition fees for the college are $40,000, and the college’s website places the cost of the entire year at $61,700. There is a supplemental tuition fee of $5,000 for any student who has to extend their enrollment in the program to 16 months due to either failing a course or requiring additional language support.

CHA-CHING!

[twitchyzero]

I've no problem with this concept...if they are able to study abroad...milk em good. cant get LPI score of 5? NO PROPREM LET US TAKE UR MONEY

many local high school graduates and their parents blame UBC for intaking too many international students that occupy seats that would otherwise be for domestic students...truth is it's just a cut-throat competition now that they rid of the only standardization...the BC provincial grade 12 exams.

My probrem ries in the fact that the ad is in Chinese....what good is a Canadian degree if you can't meet our language requirement?

[4444]

To get into second year Ubc courses, do u need the language requirements?

Just more of this city selling itself to foreign rich ppl - does not build a quality city, builds a city full of self rightious arrogant cunts (see McDonalds china woman story)

Vancouver is a much worse city than the one I moved to 15 years ago, even 10 years ago... Last 7 years have been the worst and its a combo of the terrible people running this city and the people they bring in for their money. This model will not bode well for Vancouver in the future, we get a bit of cash today, don't get the dripping cash every year like they get off of us, from the working stiffs who pay 40% marginal tax rates... But given we don't build an economy with good jobs, etc. we won't have this.

I wish Gregor, Christie, and Harper would realize their policies are incredibly short sighted. This falls inline with this

[MeowMeow]

CHA-CHING!

U Bring Cash
For
University of Billion (rich) Chinese

[Manic!]

To get into second year Ubc courses, do u need the language requirements?

Just more of this city selling itself to foreign rich ppl - does not build a quality city, builds a city full of self rightious arrogant cunts (see McDonalds china woman story)

Vancouver is a much worse city than the one I moved to 15 years ago, even 10 years ago... Last 7 years have been the worst and its a combo of the terrible people running this city and the people they bring in for their money. This model will not bode well for Vancouver in the future, we get a bit of cash today, don't get the dripping cash every year like they get off of us, from the working stiffs who pay 40% marginal tax rates... But given we don't build an economy with good jobs, etc. we won't have this.

I wish Gregor, Christie, and Harper would realize their policies are incredibly short sighted. This falls inline with this

I hate you outsiders trying to tell people born here what to do!!!!


:troll:

[Gridlock]

To get into second year Ubc courses, do u need the language requirements?

Just more of this city selling itself to foreign rich ppl - does not build a quality city, builds a city full of self rightious arrogant cunts (see McDonalds china woman story)

Vancouver is a much worse city than the one I moved to 15 years ago, even 10 years ago... Last 7 years have been the worst and its a combo of the terrible people running this city and the people they bring in for their money. This model will not bode well for Vancouver in the future, we get a bit of cash today, don't get the dripping cash every year like they get off of us, from the working stiffs who pay 40% marginal tax rates... But given we don't build an economy with good jobs, etc. we won't have this.

I wish Gregor, Christie, and Harper would realize their policies are incredibly short sighted. This falls inline with this

Add to:

level your house, their house, that house, your mom and build tiny, poorly made condos on the land they stood on.

oh, the lies-debt free BC anyone? At a time when the provincial debt had escalated more than ever before, sure, a debt free BC sounds reasonable

BC? Bring Cash. Yes, our provincial tax rate is low, but that doesn't do much when I pay out everywhere I go that has a province of BC sign out front.

Hi! Since when is $300k for a shitty 700 sq.ft apartment in a do nothing neighborhood called "south of rumble" or "south slope" even close to fucking reasonable? 40 year mortgages=free market my ass. We're one of the least densely populated countries on earth. No, we're not running out of land.

Finally...the people. You want to feel the judgment of a city's worth of indignant assholes? Throw out a juice box. Ask the question if millions of dollars spent on bike lanes is really appropriate. The other group over there is protesting that restaurant because that other group over there won't give them their lunch money. And yes, that yet another group over there is wearing bandanas and breaking the window of your privately owned restaurant to fight for you. It's Vancouver baby! EVERYONE is up in your shit.

I have yet to this day to truly consider myself "of BC". I've always keep a toe hanging on to the other side.

[4444]

Well said.

We have low corporate tax rates, Alberta has lower (I think), but we have higher personal tax rates plus Ei and cpp and all the other stuff they take from my pay check.

I am fortunate, I am well educated, I earn what is considered a lot of money here... But I don't feel wealthy, well off, or anything, yet I earn top 5% of vancouverites based on statistics... It's because to feel wealthy or be wealthy here, you don't earn here, you either own assets here (here is a great place to be rich and own a company) or earn ur money elsewhere.

The irony that such a "socialist" place is so not socialist at all (dtes and the less fortunate ppl there, yet building bike lanes, as mentioned)

I wish ppl would wake up to how poorly we are treated here and how poorly run this province/country is

Yes we have conservative banks - that's not a plus for us, Europe and US fucked up by deregulating, we're just behind the times, as with everything...

[dinosaur]

Oh come on guys....we have mountains and oceans. Surely both of those are worth all of it....right? right? ;)

[SoNaRWaVe]

I've no problem with this concept...if they are able to study abroad...milk em good. cant get LPI score of 5? NO PROPREM LET US TAKE UR MONEY

many local high school graduates and their parents blame UBC for intaking too many international students that occupy seats that would otherwise be for domestic students...truth is it's just a cut-throat competition now that they rid of the only standardization...the BC provincial grade 12 exams.

My probrem ries in the fact that the ad is in Chinese....what good is a Canadian degree if you can't meet our language requirement?

:fullofwin::fullofwin:

[ShadowBun]

in before rich snobby Asian kids

[Infiniti]

Does anyone know if schools like U of T and McGill employ similar "tactics"..?

[Timpo]

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID!!! PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH SHOULD NEVER GRADUATE UBC!!!

I don't care how much of Math genius Asian you are.
I am so against this. Being a University of Victoria graduate, and as a English as a second language speaker, I feel this is very unfair if those Chinese people get a degree from UBC without even being able to speak English.

If you graduate Canadian University, that should be an indication of your English ability...to show your employer that your English is capable enough to graduate university.

To all Asian(and other) people who had to study English to get into a Canadian university back in the day...well now their time and money was just a huge waste.

[Sid Vicious]

in light of the terrible literacy displayed by students who actually DID pass the toelf lpi or whatever, its mind boggling to think what type of essays these students will have to write. there's only so many literary analyses of "see spot run" you can do.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Lol why know just say "Pay us 200k and we garuntee you a degree in general arts" or "Pay 1m and get a degree in engineer". Just sell the degree much much easier.

[Akinari]

As if UBC Arts isn't already full of those with poor English :badpokerface:

[Nlkko]

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID!!! PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH SHOULD NEVER GRADUATE UBC!!!

I don't care how much of Math genius Asian you are.
I am so against this. Being a University of Victoria graduate, and as a English as a second language speaker, I feel this is very unfair if those Chinese people get a degree from UBC without even being able to speak English.

If you graduate Canadian University, that should be an indication of your English ability...to show your employer that your English is capable enough to graduate university.

To all Asian(and other) people who had to study English to get into a Canadian university back in the day...well now their time and money was just a huge waste.

Don't know why you're tripping but the program is 12 months and they do have to transfer to and complete the regular programs in order to graduate.

[Vale46Rossi]

Lol @ Gululu posting this.

Now your friends with those cars can get in to UBC.

[Pegacorn]

Oh come on guys....we have mountains and oceans. Surely both of those are worth all of it....right? right? ;)

Maybe I still have rainbows in my eyes because I've only lived here for a year, but there's just as much, if not more BS in other Canadian cities and at least the grass is literally greener here.

There's BS everywhere you go, but we have a nice view to look at.

[twitchyzero]

Lol @ Gululu posting this.

Now your friends with those cars can get in to UBC.

Gran Turismos, M3s and R8s in UBC Parking Lots will spike by 10 folds :ahwow:

[Lomac]

Maybe I still have rainbows in my eyes because I've only lived here for a year, but there's just as much, if not more BS in other Canadian cities and at least the grass is literally greener here.

There's BS everywhere you go, but we have a nice view to look at.

I've lived in BC for 30 years. Yes, Vancouver is "pretty," but why? Is it because of the mountains? Well, BC is basically made entirely of mountains. Is it the water? BC borders the Pacific Ocean. There are literally hundreds of miles of water front property that one could choose to move to. That's not to mention the thousands of lakes that dot the province. My Oma and Opa hand built a house in 108 Mile House that stood on top of a hill and overlooked 100 Mile Lake. That view they had was every inch as beautiful as those you can find in the North Shore. Hell, my property in the Interior is also on the top of a hill and even though there's no lake for me to see, I can still sit on my porch with a beer in hand and see miles of rolling, tree-covered hills.

I used to think Vancouver was the most beautiful city around... until I travelled. As much as I hate Paris, it's an equally beautiful city... just on a different scale. Bern? Salzberg? Rich in history, fantastic ruins, great views. The Cinque Terra? That, in my opinion, deserves a higher spot on the beautiful scale than Vancouver, by far.

My point is that while Vancouver is, yes, beautiful in it's own way with the ocean on your front steps and the mountains at your back lawn (not literally, since everyone is stuck in shitty ass condos :lol ), it's not the be-all, end-all that a lot of people believe it to be.

Anyway, this is a rather large tangent from the original post. I'll add my thoughts about that in a bit.

[Lomac]

The college also has their own recruiting team that will focus on some of their initial target countries — specifically Vietnam, Brazil and Turkey.

And yet that ad is in none of those languages. Go figure. :lol

Two things I'd like to address about this.

This program allows you to start your studies while learning English. It's not intended to teach you in a different language; rather, it's killing two birds with one stone. It's supposed to fast track you into the University courses instead of wasting a year just learning English.

The other thing is that the price is pretty universal around the world. International students always pay more. I was accepted into York University in England a few years back and the total cost to me was $130,000 (four year program accelerated into a three year timespan). While that included both tuition and living expenses, that total seemed to be on par with any other major University around the world. It may not seem exactly fair, but if people are willing to pay it, why not charge it?

[TatsuyaKataoka]

Post secondary institutions use sky-high international tuition to subsidize tuition for domestic students. It's the reason why we don't have five-digit tuition like in the states (Exhibit A (http://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost#freshmen-transfer)), despite dwindling funding from Ottawa and the provinces.

[Marshall Placid]

Post secondary institutions use sky-high international tuition to subsidize tuition for domestic students. It's the reason why we don't have five-digit tuition like in the states (Exhibit A (http://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost#freshmen-transfer)), despite dwindling funding from Ottawa and the provinces.

That is correct.

Pros and cons.

Pros and cons.

--------------

On another note:
Perhaps, this UBC Vantage program will have printed degrees that stipulate that they graduated from "UBC Vantage" instead of "UBC".

This should be on their degree/diploma when they graduate, if UBC has not yet planned on doing this.

This will help in not devaluing the past, current, and future graduands of the UBC (the regular, English taught degrees).

[Carl Johnson]

how is this going to affect Langara? pretty sure it will get hit pretty hard in the pocketbook if it has a lot of international students studying there.

[dinosaur]

That is correct.


On another note:
Perhaps, this UBC Vantage program will have printed degrees that stipulate that they graduated from "UBC Vantage" instead of "UBC".

This should be on their degree/diploma when they graduate, if UBC has not yet planned on doing this.

This will help in not devaluing the past, current, and future graduands of the UBC (the regular, English taught degrees).

I doubt it if the student is transferring to UBC proper after 12 months.

My SFU degree doesn't say "bitch transferred from Kwantlen" on it...

I view this more as a "Here at UBC, our professors are tired of students not being able to speak the god damn language I teach in but I still want their money" program. And, because we are all 'hug-a-tree-save-the-whales' in BC, we need to add a fake university to teach said students before we put them in real university because telling them "NO" when they fail the language test, makes us feel bad.

My issue is, students who can't speak either of the two official languages of Canada shouldn't be in our university system to begin with.

[bing]

These students can pay me a couple g's and I'll write the LPI for them :considered:

[bing]

That is correct.

Pros and cons.

Pros and cons.

--------------

On another note:
Perhaps, this UBC Vantage program will have printed degrees that stipulate that they graduated from "UBC Vantage" instead of "UBC".

This should be on their degree/diploma when they graduate, if UBC has not yet planned on doing this.

This will help in not devaluing the past, current, and future graduands of the UBC (the regular, English taught degrees).

This is unnecessary. The program is just for first year courses. If they fail to adapt by year 2, they wouldn't even make it to graduation.

[Marshall Placid]

This is unnecessary. The program is just for first year courses. If they fail to adapt by year 2, they wouldn't even make it to graduation.

Ah I see.

So, after the first year courses, they transfer into the regular courses.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

I think you guys using the whole official language is X & Y should rethink your strategy.

with enough social and political pressure... a stroke of a pen will all it takes to bust your guys's argument.

quoted myself from the mcdix thread... cuz it's applicable to this thread as well lol.


if you don't include ppl that aren't fluent in english, you exclude like 95.17% of the world... which is a lot of people. that's very ignorant... and arrogant lol.


instead of QQing about this and that... you should realise they are doing what's right, they are evolving with the times. you have to change your system and ways constantly through your life.

shit changes, you must change too.


I think you guys focus too much on your own cultural pride and egos.

everyone knows the education system is a business first. that's already been established, so this move isn't a surprise at all.

those of you who think it lowers your own degree or somehow makes your efforts to get into UBC less meaningful or something... well yeah it does, and guess what... fuck you, no one cares, get over yourself.

I seriously don't think making people learn english is a big deal nor will it make any significant impact. it only deters people and funnels potential bright minded people to other places. from what i've seen... 12-13 years ago when I was doing the LPI and all that crap, a lot of "hongers" and "fobs" i knew that "grew up here" since they were like grade 6-7, failed the LPI many times. some never even got the score needed to get into UBC even after taking it like fuckign 5 times or somthing. but u know what, they were a helluva lot smarter than most people i met at UBC lol... you deny someone that excels in swimming because they cannot climb a hill?


Looking down on someone cuz they can't speak english or refuse to, or holding them to some subjective requirement (fluent in english to a certain level), basically stems from the same area as racism and bigotry.

you may speak english, but they probably speak at least two languages. and if they speak mandarin, that's 3x as many people they can communicate with on this planet vs yourself. and they probably speak more than just mandarin. (native english speakers make up less than 5.6% of the world, and mandarin about 14%)

so it is actually yourselves that you should look down on, and realise that you're only bitching because, it's the only thing you have. and of course you won't admit it but, you are not as superior as you thought you were.

Think of it this way, UBC is finally getting over it's own ego. realising the strict english requirement doesn't help them academically, but it was more of an image thing. an ego thing.

[hotshot1]

^^ That was epic

[Energy]

those of you who think it lowers your own degree or somehow makes your efforts to get into UBC less meaningful or something... well yeah it does, and guess what... fuck you, no one cares, get over yourself.



This move does not lower the value of a UBC degree at all. People who are part of this program are just as smart or might even be smarter than all the other students - their English just isn't up to par and the program will help change that.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

^
i was referring to guys like marshal placid, the tone and content of his posts obviously displays the fact that he feels it.

and he is not unique, there must be others that feel that way too.

they're not targeting the ppl that get in through this program, they're targeting themselves, and focusing on what "they lose". a selfish and egotistical approach. a stupid one, because, they still have yet to realise that their degree was worthless to begin with ahahhahaha

[Gululu]

meanwhile at SFU... you can buy an 'A-' grade for merely $650 cdn
http://i.imgur.com/dkhlsow.jpg

[Traum]

meanwhile at SFU... you can buy an 'A-' grade for merely $650 cdn
On the surface, at least, this guy is only billing himself as a tutor, so I wouldn't call that buying a grade per se. Additionally, I dunno about the linguistics and business courses, but for the other courses, they should still have final exams that are probably worth at least 20 - 30% of the term, so the student would still have to know his stuff well enough to get a decent grade.

[threezero]

On the surface, at least, this guy is only billing himself as a tutor, so I wouldn't call that buying a grade per se. Additionally, I dunno about the linguistics and business courses, but for the other courses, they should still have final exams that are probably worth at least 20 - 30% of the term, so the student would still have to know his stuff well enough to get a decent grade.

I guess you don't read chinese. some of them saids guarantee A- B+ and it is possible to have someone else take the exam for you in university.....

[iEatClams]

quoted myself from the mcdix thread... cuz it's applicable to this thread as well lol.


if you don't include ppl that aren't fluent in english, you exclude like 95.17% of the world... which is a lot of people. that's very ignorant... and arrogant lol.






instead of QQing about this and that... you should realise they are doing what's right, they are evolving with the times. you have to change your system and ways constantly through your life.

shit changes, you must change too.


I think you guys focus too much on your own cultural pride and egos.

everyone knows the education system is a business first. that's already been established, so this move isn't a surprise at all.

those of you who think it lowers your own degree or somehow makes your efforts to get into UBC less meaningful or something... well yeah it does, and guess what... fuck you, no one cares, get over yourself.

I seriously don't think making people learn english is a big deal nor will it make any significant impact. it only deters people and funnels potential bright minded people to other places. from what i've seen... 12-13 years ago when I was doing the LPI and all that crap, a lot of "hongers" and "fobs" i knew that "grew up here" since they were like grade 6-7, failed the LPI many times. some never even got the score needed to get into UBC even after taking it like fuckign 5 times or somthing. but u know what, they were a helluva lot smarter than most people i met at UBC lol... you deny someone that excels in swimming because they cannot climb a hill?


Looking down on someone cuz they can't speak english or refuse to, or holding them to some subjective requirement (fluent in english to a certain level), basically stems from the same area as racism and bigotry.

you may speak english, but they probably speak at least two languages. and if they speak mandarin, that's 3x as many people they can communicate with on this planet vs yourself. and they probably speak more than just mandarin. (native english speakers make up less than 5.6% of the world, and mandarin about 14%)

so it is actually yourselves that you should look down on, and realise that you're only bitching because, it's the only thing you have. and of course you won't admit it but, you are not as superior as you thought you were.

Think of it this way, UBC is finally getting over it's own ego. realising the strict english requirement doesn't help them academically, but it was more of an image thing. an ego thing.


some of this is about protectionism, other countries do it, so why can't we? The biggest culprits of protectionism is people from these other countries that want to study here.

It's a culture thing, we live in a globalized world, but it doesn't mean we cant with-hold some of our values and protect some of our culture (for lack of a better word). So what if it's the "only thing" we have, that forces us to bitch even more, because hey, in North America, we still have the numbers when it comes to people that speak english, so who cares if we are ignoring 95% of the world, we're only ignoring a very small % of North Americans. and the majority of people in North America speak english, so shouldn't the students be changing to conform and adapt to the majority in the country that THEY chose to go to? Maybe these other countries have too much cultural pride and EGOs.

At the end of the day, if it's about spots being available and # of kids graduating, I rather have my kids going to these schools than some rich foreign kid if its either my kid or theirs.

I really have no problems with this new program as it will bring in money, but if these students are able to transfer to second year without passing necessary english requirements, then hey, I may have a problem with it.

Think of how people from hong kong feel about mainlanders coming in and taking up all the land and resources and goods and leaving no products for the locals. Sure some businesses are happy, but the majority are just pissed. People will get angry if it negatively affects them personally, right now it doesn't for me, but I do remember the days of university.

I didn't like having students that couldnt speak english in my group projects in university. They contributed nothing, except their money, and contrary to what you said, the majority of them are stupid compared to the other students. They had to study much longer hours just to get the same grades as the non-fobs in class, and we're talking about finance or business classes here where it's mostly calculations. Sometimes I even wonder how the fck these people get in? and then I realize, ohh yeah, $$ and personal hookups. But yes, degrees are stupid to begin with.

In the end, it's my interests vs theirs, and I will always choose mine.

[Traum]

I guess you don't read chinese. some of them saids guarantee A- B+ and it is possible to have someone else take the exam for you in university.....
Don't they check for photo IDs anymore during university final exams? When I was going through college and university, the TA or prof would come over during the final exam and do that. Also, for some of the 2nd year courses and especially for 3rd year courses and beyond, class sizes aren't that big anymore, so I find it kind of hard to have someone write the final exam for you.

I'm not saying these measures are un-defeatable. And of course I am aware that widespread cheating exists, especially at SFU. (Didn't a whole bunch of business students get caught cheating a few years ago there?)

[yray]

^
http://cdn.randomfunnypicture.com/pictures/576x308x567asian.jpg.pagespeed.ic.3QxXCPW_fz.jpg


meanwhile at SFU... you can buy an 'A-' grade for merely $650 cdn
http://i.imgur.com/dkhlsow.jpg

My Ad has been spotted :derp: :okay: :troll:

[GLOW]

My Ad has been spotted :derp: :okay: :troll:

picturing your avatar as i'm reading this :lawl:

[TatsuyaKataoka]

Post secondary institutions use sky-high international tuition to subsidize tuition for domestic students. It's the reason why we don't have five-digit tuition like in the states (Exhibit A (http://admit.washington.edu/Paying/Cost#freshmen-transfer)), despite dwindling funding from Ottawa and the provinces.

To reiterate this point, my uncle on my mom's side wrote to me a few days ago. He lives in Maryland and does R&D for a biotech company, and he's feeling the pinch sending his kids to college.

The cost of education in the US is getting absolutely insane. It is hitting hard those who are in the middle like us. The rich can afford the cost ( $50,000 - 60,000/ year) for the top schools. The poor can get assistantship/grant/scholarship. Those with middle income have to cough up their hard earned money if they want their kids to go into the top schools.

He's not kidding either. Assuming you dorm, the cost of education can easily hit $50k+ for places like Cal, UCLA, NYU and Harvard. Even the state colleges are expensive, $15k+ easy. And that's if you have in-state residency.

Yeah, I know. He does R&D and he calls himself "middle income"? Remember that raising a family is like a money sink.

[Traum]

Top schools costing a fortune isn't anything new. Ivy League schools are elite institutions that cater pretty much only to the super rich and/or powerful. (Incidentally, it also seems to have become the de facto training ground for children of the rich and/or politically powerful Mainland Chinese bureaucrats.)

On the other hand, I would argue that state schools being $15k+/yr isn't that expensive. Depending on how many semesters that $15k is for, you're looking at $5k - $7.5k per semester. The UWashington example that you cited is only $12k+/yr for WA residents. It's still a lot of money and more expensive than what we have here, but I wouldn't quite call that out of reach or expensive yet. (For comparison, tuition at UBC starts at ~$160/credit, and SFU at ~$170/credit. So it comes to about ~$3k/semester for tuition only when you include other fees and stuff.)

[TatsuyaKataoka]

The UWashington example that you cited is only $12k+/yr for WA residents. It's still a lot of money and more expensive than what we have here, but I wouldn't quite call that out of reach or expensive yet. (For comparison, tuition at UBC starts at ~$160/credit, and SFU at ~$170/credit. So it comes to about ~$3k/semester for tuition only when you include other fees and stuff.)

Assuming 15 credits a semester, UW is $800/credit. That's 5 times what we pay here. Yeah it's not HOLY SHIT IVY LEAGUE expensive, but it's clear that students in Canada are much better off financially if they choose to get an education. Reading the stories of students crushed with loan debt out of college is all the proof you need.

I can't remember the thread, but there was this one girl who had dual citizenship (so she pays domestic tuition in Canada), and said it's cheaper to go to UBC than community college in Portland.

[Traum]

Assuming 15 credits a semester, UW is $800/credit. That's 5 times what we pay here. Yeah it's not HOLY SHIT IVY LEAGUE expensive, but it's clear that students in Canada are much better off financially if they choose to get an education. Reading the stories of students crushed with loan debt out of college is all the proof you need.

I can't remember the thread, but there was this one girl who had dual citizenship (so she pays domestic tuition in Canada), and said it's cheaper to go to UBC than community college in Portland.
Correction here -- the UWashington tuition is ~$12k/yr (not per semester), so the per credit tution works out to $12k / 30 credits = $400/credit. It's about 2.5x more expensive than what we pay, which is why I said it isn't cheap, but I wouldn't quite call it expensive yet.

I 100% agree with you that students in both Canada and the US are getting hit hard by student loan debts, but the student loans themselves aren't the only cause to the problem. To me, the bigger reason is that a ton of university graduates are either working menial jobs after they graduate, or they are unable to find work at all. We can probably write a big long essay to explore the reasons for this, and I will just sum it up with a big sweeping generalization that too many people are graduating with degrees where the cost of their education far outweighs what society will pay for people with those talents.

[dinosaur]

The bigger problem is student attending Uni to major in "English" or "Business" or "PoliSci" on student loan only to walk out and work as a teller for 12$/hr because they just assumed someone would hire them. We have several generation of 25 year olds with $50k of debt. Not the best start in life.

Society puts too much pressure on "going to university" and you are looked down upon if you do something different. For 80% of people its bullshit.

Just watched the news last night. All 19 graduates from the welding program at BCIT have been offered $100K/year with 54 more spots to fill.

[GLOW]

Just watched the news last night. All 19 graduates from the welding program at BCIT have been offered $100K/year with 54 more spots to fill.

dayum!
how long does that program take to complete...time to start thinking about a change in fields

[dinosaur]

dayum!
how long does that program take to complete...time to start thinking about a change in fields

I thought the same thing....I remember talking to someone who I *think* said the program was 9 months.

Everyone is heading to Kitimat for work....BCIT said nobody has to apply for jobs anymore. Companies just show up at the school and take everyone.

[TatsuyaKataoka]

The bigger problem is student attending Uni to major in "English" or "Business" or "PoliSci" on student loan only to walk out and work as a teller for 12$/hr because they just assumed someone would hire them. We have several generation of 25 year olds with $50k of debt. Not the best start in life.

Society puts too much pressure on "going to university" and you are looked down upon if you do something different. For 80% of people its bullshit.

Just watched the news last night. All 19 graduates from the welding program at BCIT have been offered $100K/year with 54 more spots to fill.

To add to your point, there is a social stigma against getting into the trades or getting your hands dirty, ESPECIALLY with the immigrant communities in Vancouver. Chief offenders are Chinese, Koreans, Indians and Iranians. They push and push their kids to get top marks in high school and to go to a good university for their family's prestige, not because it's what the kid wants. If you don't like it, you get disowned or kicked out.

I'm doing a BSc in computer science because I enjoy the study of computability and computational theory. I believe I have the intellectual curiosity and discipline to successfully meet the academic rigor of the program. For those kind of people, a university degree might not be a bad idea. University has expanded my horizons and made me a better critical thinker. The brilliant minds I have met and am sure to meet, from instructors and TAs to classmates will benefit me intellectually and financially for years to come.

The point is, this was my decision. This is a free country, you can make whatever decisions you want that you think are best for you. Unfortunately, not everyone sees life this way.

As an end note: CS graduates from UBC and SFU are making $60K/year out of school. They can make even more if they start a business on the side or move to the US. Programming can be considered a trade, a skill that anyone can learn (and I highly recommend everyone try programming!), but a university degree is a prerequisite for these kind of jobs unless you have hella connections or you're Mark Zuckerberg.

Edit: Obviously, university hasn't helped my proofreading.

[Traum]

^^ Good points above, especially regarding how Asian parents have this single-minded focus on how the only way for their kids to be successful is to go through university and become a "professional". Not everyone is interested in becoming doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc., nor is everyone capable of doing so. In the end, this single-minded focus from Asian parents is only leading to a over abundance of people trained to perform your typical white collar / clerical type of work and absolutely nothing else. And then when they can only find that $12 - $15/hr type of white collar / clerical job, they consider themselves over-qualified and don't really pay much attention nor interest in properly doing their job.

On your side note, I'd have to disagree that university degree is a prerequisite to landing yourself a computer science type of job. It is certainly one of the easiest ways to do so, and the formal training you get as a result of your CS degree goes hand-in-hand with the work CS professionals do, but I wouldn't say it is the only way. From what I can tell, proven track record is what employers are looking for. If you have the project experience, you can convince them to hire you. Professional certification (and I am not talking about the A+ stuff) will also get you to places.

[Lomac]

The bigger problem is student attending Uni to major in "English" or "Business" or "PoliSci" on student loan only to walk out and work as a teller for 12$/hr because they just assumed someone would hire them. We have several generation of 25 year olds with $50k of debt. Not the best start in life.

Society puts too much pressure on "going to university" and you are looked down upon if you do something different. For 80% of people its bullshit.

Just watched the news last night. All 19 graduates from the welding program at BCIT have been offered $100K/year with 54 more spots to fill.

Yup. I'm headed back to school to do my Heavy Duty Mechanics and C-ticket for welding. As cushy it would be to have a desk job, I just can't do it. I did it at my last job and I hated it. I'd rather get my hands dirty and physically see the work I've accomplished, instead of just spending the day typing into a computer and emailing all my reports at the end of the day.

Dual ticket holders in the interior can make some serious coin, even without having to go up North to the oil fields. Guess no one wants to work in the snow up here. :lol

[TatsuyaKataoka]

On your side note, I'd have to disagree that university degree is a prerequisite to landing yourself a computer science type of job. It is certainly one of the easiest ways to do so, and the formal training you get as a result of your CS degree goes hand-in-hand with the work CS professionals do, but I wouldn't say it is the only way. From what I can tell, proven track record is what employers are looking for. If you have the project experience, you can convince them to hire you. Professional certification (and I am not talking about the A+ stuff) will also get you to places.

I agree and disagree. A degree, when combined with personal projects and connections, shows employers you are able to finish something and work with others. It shows you have an basic understanding of the fundamentals of computer science: OO design principles, algorithms, data structures and design patterns. A fresh faced 23 year old just out of SFU isn't exactly going to have project experience. If anything, a degree makes it easier to get your foot in the door and get past employers' screening and interviews, though GPA is less of a concern (unless you're applying for co op or an internship).

Also, I'm lazy af and if I tried to teach myself, I'd go nowhere. Some people need deadlines and professors up their asses to get motivated.

There's a big anti college backlash, which is good, but sometimes it swings too far in the other direction.

[dinosaur]

As an end note: CS graduates from UBC and SFU are making $60K/year out of school. They can make even more if they start a business on the side or move to the US. Programming can be considered a trade, a skill that anyone can learn (and I highly recommend everyone try programming!), but a university degree is a prerequisite for these kind of jobs



You are wearing rose-coloured glasses, my friend.

And, although I do agree and believe that higher learning equips people with critical thinking and helps with exposure to a more "worldly" view, these qualities do not pay to bills.

[dinosaur]

Also, I'm lazy af and if I tried to teach myself, I'd go nowhere. Some people need deadlines and professors up their asses to get motivated.




I would probably leave this off you C.V.

[TatsuyaKataoka]

You are wearing rose-coloured glasses, my friend.

And, although I do agree and believe that higher learning equips people with critical thinking and helps with exposure to a more "worldly" view, these qualities do not pay to bills.

Yeah, maybe I am a wide eyed enthusiast, but it doesn't matter. I'm at peace with the decisions I've made.

[Marco911]

I think it is rather dishonest for them to state that they are targeting students from Vietnam, Brazil and Turkey, when we all know that 85% of students will be coming from Mainland China. That must be why the ad is in Chinese. I don't know that many students from those 3 countries that can afford the tuition.

[Marco911]

Seriously, I'm rather pissed that UBC is diluting the value of my degree with substandard applicants.

[Gridlock]

Seriously, I'm rather pissed that UBC is diluting the value of my degree with substandard applicants.

Chants about underage rape are doing a pretty good job of that. I wouldn't worry too much about 30 or 40 more chinese kids.

[Lomac]

Seriously, I'm rather pissed that UBC is diluting the value of my degree with substandard applicants.

Substandard? All the requirements to get into UBC Vantage are the exact same as getting into a standard UBC program. The only thing that's different is that instead of wasting a year or two (re)learning English, it incorporates ESL teachings into the existing program. The rest of the program is the exact same as the one taught to native English speakers.

If you want to get angry at UBC for letting in substandard students, bitch to the government about doing away with the standardized grade 12 provincial exams and high schools not allowing students to fail a course, even if they don't do a single piece of work.

[dinosaur]

This "diluting" theory is bullshit.

It is no different than a transfer student from Douglas/Kwantlen/Capilano, etc.

This is just a way for UBC to capitalize from international students who can't speak English but want their fucking money. Just because you can not speak a language fluently it doesn't mean you are dumb.

This is going to stop all the frustrations of all 100-level professors who have a kids fresh off the plane from China submitting a papers full of syntax errors. Do you fail the kid because he doesn't know the difference between "there" and "their", or does the kid pass because he understands the content?


And fuck all y'all that think your UBC degree is your ticket to life above the rest. For all we know you skimmed by with a 2.0 GPA and barely graduated. Just because your piece of paper says "UBC", it doesn't mean you were gifted with brains. I can name a handful of people who received their degree from UBC and literally have shit for brains.

[Sid Vicious]

Seriously, I'm rather pissed that UBC is diluting the value of my degree with substandard applicants.

too bad no one gives a fuck about your degree. anyone with half a brain and a coupla g's can get a degree fairly easily from ubc or wherever.

stem degrees are perhaps a bit more difficult

[Marco911]

Chants about underage rape are doing a pretty good job of that. I wouldn't worry too much about 30 or 40 more chinese kids.

I'm referring to the fact that Vantage students can't pass the basic language qualification. And Vantage college enrolment sounds like more than 30 or 40 individuals.

[Marco911]

Substandard? All the requirements to get into UBC Vantage are the exact same as getting into a standard UBC program. The only thing that's different is that instead of wasting a year or two (re)learning English, it incorporates ESL teachings into the existing program. The rest of the program is the exact same as the one taught to native English speakers.

They had 18 years to learn English to the level where they'd be able to pass the TOEFL.


If you want to get angry at UBC for letting in substandard students, bitch to the government about doing away with the standardized grade 12 provincial exams and high schools not allowing students to fail a course, even if they don't do a single piece of work.

Agree with this.

[Marco911]

This "diluting" theory is bullshit.

It is no different than a transfer student from Douglas/Kwantlen/Capilano, etc.


I think that's a joke too. As an employer, I'd hire someone who gets admitted to UBC right off the bat.


This is just a way for UBC to capitalize from international students who can't speak English but want their fucking money. Just because you can not speak a language fluently it doesn't mean you are dumb.

Which proves my point that they are diluting the value of a UBC degree.


This is going to stop all the frustrations of all 100-level professors who have a kids fresh off the plane from China submitting a papers full of syntax errors. Do you fail the kid because he doesn't know the difference between "there" and "their", or does the kid pass because he understands the content?

It shall depend on the course. However, if they don't have a basic command of the language in a paper, their grades should reflect that.


And fuck all y'all that think your UBC degree is your ticket to life above the rest. For all we know you skimmed by with a 2.0 GPA and barely graduated. Just because your piece of paper says "UBC", it doesn't mean you were gifted with brains. I can name a handful of people who received their degree from UBC and literally have shit for brains.

These people likely transferred from a college and I'm guessing have a liberal arts degree.

[Marco911]

too bad no one gives a fuck about your degree. anyone with half a brain and a coupla g's can get a degree fairly easily from ubc or wherever.

I believe that UBC only accepts around 30-35% of its applicant pool.


stem degrees are perhaps a bit more difficult

I have one of those from UBC.

[Gridlock]

So hey everybody! Marco's back! :cool:

Everyone is now wrong. :moderated:

[CP.AR]

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID!!! PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH SHOULD NEVER GRADUATE UBC!!!

I don't care how much of Math genius Asian you are.
I am so against this. Being a University of Victoria graduate, and as a English as a second language speaker, I feel this is very unfair if those Chinese people get a degree from UBC without even being able to speak English.

If you graduate Canadian University, that should be an indication of your English ability...to show your employer that your English is capable enough to graduate university.

To all Asian(and other) people who had to study English to get into a Canadian university back in the day...well now their time and money was just a huge waste.

I GRADUATE UBC.
I STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND ENGLISH