[StylinRed]

Sentence Shock: Just 30 Days For Teacher Who Raped Student | TIME.com (http://nation.time.com/2013/08/27/getting-off-easy-just-30-days-for-teacher-who-raped-student/)

Sentence Shock: Just 30 Days For Teacher Who Raped Student

A judge suspended the rest of the 15-year sentence in the rape of a student who later committed suicide

By Noah Rayman Aug. 27, 2013



A Montana teacher convicted of raping a 14-year-old student who later committed suicide will serve just 30 days in prison after a judge suspended almost his entire 15-year sentence.

The student’s mother, who had previously testified that the rape was a “major factor” in her daughter Cherice Morales’s suicide, repeatedly screamed “you people suck!” during sentencing on Monday before storming out, the Billings Gazette reports.

The teacher, Stacey Dean Rambold, was charged in 2008 with three counts of sexual intercourse without consent. He pleaded guilty to one count, but the case was complicated by the girl’s suicide just weeks before her 17th birthday. Rambold was ordered to complete a sex-offender treatment program to have the charges dismissed, but prosecutors revived the case when they learned he had been terminated from the program.

The judge, who said Morales was “as much in control of the situation” as Rambold, said that the teacher’s termination from the program did not warrant the lengthy imprisonment. He suspended all but 31 days of the 15-year sentence — and gave Rambold credit for one day already served.




It's on CNN currently if you flip over you may catch it


Former teacher in Montana gets 30 days in jail for raping student who later committed suicide - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/former-teacher-in-montana-gets-30-days-in-jail-for-raping-student-who-later-committed-suicide/2013/08/27/8f3115da-0f60-11e3-a2b3-5e107edf9897_story.html)

BILLINGS, Mont. — A former Billings Senior High School teacher who pleaded guilty to raping a 14-year-old student who later killed herself has been sentenced to 30 days in jail by a judge who said the victim was “older than her chronological age” and “as much in control of the situation” as the teacher.

District Judge G. Todd Baugh sentenced Stacey Dean Rambold to 15 years in prison for sexual intercourse without consent, with all but 31 days suspended. He gave Rambold credit for one day already served, The Billings Gazette reported (Former Senior High teacher gets 30 days for rape of student (http://bit.ly/1dmuHZo) ).

The girl’s mother repeatedly screamed, “You people suck!” and stormed out of the courtroom Monday.

Rambold, now 54, was charged in October 2008 with three counts of sexual intercourse without consent alleging that he had an ongoing sexual relationship with Cherice Morales, starting the previous year when she was 14.

Morales took her own life in February 2010 while the case was pending.

In July 2010, Rambold entered a three-year deferred prosecution agreement with prosecutors that said the charges would be dismissed if Rambold completed a sex offender treatment program and met other conditions, including having no contact with children. He also admitted to one rape charge.

The case was revived last December when prosecutors learned Rambold had been terminated from the sex offender treatment program.

Treatment provider Michael Sullivan said Rambold started missing meetings in August 2012, but Sullivan said he met with Rambold and he appeared to be back on track with his treatment.

Rambold was terminated from the program in November when it was learned that he had been having unsupervised visits with minors, who were family members, and did not inform counselors that he had been having sexual relations with a woman.

Defense attorney Jay Lansing said Rambold has since continued his treatment with a different program and an evaluation found him at low risk to re-offend.

Baugh said he was not convinced that the reasons for Rambold’s termination from treatment were serious enough to warrant the 10-year prison term prosecutors recommended.

The judge said he listened to statements given by Morales before her death and believed that while she was a troubled youth, she was “as much in control of the situation” as Rambold and was “older than her chronological age.”

Yellowstone County Attorney Scott Twito told The Associated Press on Tuesday that he would not appeal the judge’s sentence.

“We respect the court’s sentencing decision. We obviously disagree with it, based on the recommendations my attorneys made, but it appears to be legally permissible,” he said.

Asked about Baugh’s reasoning that a 14-year-old girl below the state’s age of consent had an equal share of control of the relationship, Twito declined to answer directly.

“The judge’s reasons are his reasons and his reasons alone. He has broad authority under state law, given the proper criteria,” Twito said.

The case resulted in a $91,000 wrongful death settlement between the school district and Morales’ family.

Rambold reached a confidential settlement with the girl’s family.

[nabs]

the way the title of this thread was written, I thought a Teacher killed herself then got a 30 day sentence... i was totally :fulloffuck: had to read it a few times.

RIP.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i think they throw the word rape around too easily these days.

also... what's the full story.

if a troubled youth encounters an adult and an altercation occurs... and 3 years later they commit suicide... can that adult be convicted for something?

what about the 3 years in between? (and before as well)... what if the kid was so fucked in the head that suicide would have happened regardless of the encounter.

I knew a kid that jumped off the burrard bridge, he was always fucked in the head since elementary. stereotypical troubled youth. this aint no east side ghetto either. west side, nice neighbourhood. like 2 decades later he commits suicide. can we blame every person that he's had a bad encounter with for that suicide? are we just looking for someone to blame?

i mean, dont get me wrong, he shouldnt be fucking 14 year olds. but it doesn't automatically mean we should blame him for her suicide. maybe... just maybe she was just fucked in the head.

[dinosaur]

i think they throw the word rape around too easily these days.



are you implying this was not rape?

[Gridlock]

I just want to be clear here...you are taking the side of the teacher in this story?

Throwing the word rape around too easily? She's 14, its rape.

It's black rape, it's white rape, its purple rape, its rape with her permission, its rape without her permission, its rape with a fucking bow on it.

Rape rape rape rape rape.

RAPE.

An adult fucking a 14 year old is rape. Actually, you should like it as its not a his word vs. hers questionable type thing. It's black and white...fucking rape.

She could be laying on the bed saying, "Fuck me, Mr. teacher" with her legs spread and...survey says?

Rapey!

i think they throw the word rape around too easily these days.

also... what's the full story.

if a troubled youth encounters an adult and an altercation occurs... and 3 years later they commit suicide... can that adult be convicted for something?

what about the 3 years in between? (and before as well)... what if the kid was so fucked in the head that suicide would have happened regardless of the encounter.

I knew a kid that jumped off the burrard bridge, he was always fucked in the head since elementary. stereotypical troubled youth. this aint no east side ghetto either. west side, nice neighbourhood. like 2 decades later he commits suicide. can we blame every person that he's had a bad encounter with for that suicide? are we just looking for someone to blame?

i mean, dont get me wrong, he shouldnt be fucking 14 year olds. but it doesn't automatically mean we should blame him for her suicide. maybe... just maybe she was just fucked in the head.

[snails]

^^

Thanked for the good chuckle that issued after reading your post.

[Drow]

uliq i suggest you back off now...

you cannot possibly take on both those 2 at the same time

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

uh huh.

so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me

vs

if i brutally force myself into a woman while she screams in agony and is trying to get away from me.

both are rape i guess. for the people that have a very limited vocabulary. lol.

oh second example i stick a tire iron up her cunt too. and my buddies stick it in her pooper.

yeah, i am implying its not rape. and so is the judge. idiots.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

the age of consent is subjective. it could be illegal in one country and normal in another.

it doesn't matter if the man "raped" her or not... that's not the point i was trying to make

REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE RAPED HER OR NOT, HER SUICIDE IS NOT TO BE IMMEDIATELY BLAMED ON HIM. doesn't matter if he's an excon that murdered 100 people and tortured kittens for fun.

[lowside67]

IMO, there should be some middle ground.

A grown adult not having the good judgment to resist some slutty under-age girl going after him is wrong and should be punished.

A grown adult who has a friend hold that same slutty girl down and fucks her against her will is also wrong and should be punished.

Both those things are wrong. But I agree with Ulic that while they're both wrong, they're not the same thing and as such the penalties should be different. And apparently the judge also agreed. Statutory rape and and rape by the traditional definition are different charges for a reason, they just both happen to have the word "rape" in the name.

[Gridlock]

To anyone that even wants to think about the slutiness of the 14 year old, or how "she fucking wanted it" or dressed for it, or paid for it, or did a little movie style blackmail for it, let's define the term "statutory rape"

Statutory rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A good rapin' doesn't always need the duct tape.

Rapey Rapey Rapey Rapey Rape.


uliq i suggest you back off now...

you cannot possibly take on both those 2 at the same time

Fuck off with this shit.

[StylinRed]

The point I wanted to make when I posted this, but didn't have the time to, is this is one of many examples showing that the US Justice System isn't any better than Canadas since people always love to put down Canada and praise the US system

I can understand what Ulic is trying to say here but the laws the law, under a determined age (that changes between states and countries and time) it's rape regardless of the circumstances
The law doesn't define "yeah this is kinda sorta rape since she's a minor but not really though since she liked it so you can go home" (what the judge did here)
The laws black and white for this topic and he raped her (you can argue if that's right or wrong)

[T4RAWR]

uliq i suggest you back off now...

you cannot possibly take on both those 2 at the same time

:lawl:

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

so the guy "statutory raped" her.

so you guys blame him for her suicide?

I'm not on his side. If he were here right now and i was his laywer... i'd shake my head at him... i'd tell him what an idiot he was. if he wanted to get his rocks off he coulda hired a hooker. if he liked little girls, he shoulda at least flown to another place where he could get away with it.
either way, as a man, he failed at doing what he wanted to do, and he failed at getting away with it, he fails at a lot of things. LOL. he's a loser.

that is a completely separate issue from the girl's suicide.
what if they found out she fucked other men? what if she woulda killed herself regardless of who she seduced.

the man is a loser for doing what he did.

and the girl was probably a bigger loser and if she didn't kill herself, she'd definitely grow up to be a bigger loser.

listen, if i were 14 again and i could seduce my hot teacher... i would. and i would know exactly what the fuck i was doing. everything i did when i was 14 i knew exactly what i was doing and what consequences there were.

if i choose to kill myself after, that's my own problem.

look at the big picture, no matter what under the law he's gonna get viewed as a "rapist". even if they were totally in love, even if she drugged him and strapped him down and "raped" him. he, under gridlock and dinosaurs mentality, would still have technically "raped" her. he CANNOT win.

plus back to the original topic... obviously the judge sees this predicament. and lowered his sentence.

and obviously, there's a focus on the fact that she's a troubled youth. you can't blame everyone the baby shits on before it takes a fall.

[Gridlock]

:lawl:

My apologies. This WAS insightful!

[Gridlock]

so the guy "statutory raped" her.

so you guys blame him for her suicide?

I'm not on his side. If he were here right now and i was his laywer... i'd shake my head at him... i'd tell him what an idiot he was. if he wanted to get his rocks off he coulda hired a hooker. if he liked little girls, he shoulda at least flown to another place where he could get away with it.
either way, as a man, he failed at doing what he wanted to do, and he failed at getting away with it, he fails at a lot of things. LOL. he's a loser.

that is a completely separate issue from the girl's suicide.
what if they found out she fucked other men? what if she woulda killed herself regardless of who she seduced.

the man is a loser for doing what he did.

and the girl was probably a bigger loser and if she didn't kill herself, she'd definitely grow up to be a bigger loser.

listen, if i were 14 again and i could seduce my hot teacher... i would. and i would know exactly what the fuck i was doing. everything i did when i was 14 i knew exactly what i was doing and what consequences there were.

if i choose to kill myself after, that's my own problem.

look at the big picture, no matter what under the law he's gonna get viewed as a "rapist". even if they were totally in love, even if she drugged him and strapped him down and "raped" him. he, under gridlock and dinosaurs mentality, would still have technically "raped" her. he CANNOT win.

plus back to the original topic... obviously the judge sees this predicament. and lowered his sentence.

and obviously, there's a focus on the fact that she's a troubled youth. you can't blame everyone the baby shits on before it takes a fall.

OK! We're never going to agree so have fun.

Please never introduce yourself to my daughter.

[StylinRed]

Please never introduce yourself to my daughter.

:pokerface: shouldn't mention that that invites all sorts of comments

[jpark]

lol someone needs a chill pill. chill the fuk out

[smoothie.]

Excellent addition to the thread.

Thanks for popping in and adding icons anytime someone says something negative about a member, ANY member.

It's very mod like.

"Here, let me fuel those fires so I can put them out!"

So :thumbsup:

Complains about an emoticon reply.

Replies with an emoticon.

:fulloffuck:

[Gridlock]

Complains about an emoticon reply.

Replies with an emoticon.

:fulloffuck:

It's happened before. Same icon, same circumstance. Same reason.

If he wants to add something on topic...go nuts.

If YOU want to add something on topic...go nuts.

BUT we're all here for one thing, and one thing only, and its not the discussion of the days events...let's share the link around, and get everyone to come on in. My mistake this time. I'll correct it. :)

[El Bastardo]

This post should not be misconstrued as "El Bastardo supports rape"

Statutory rape is an arbitrary thing.

Ages of consent in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Consensual sex becomes statutory rape when you cross an invisible line demarcating two territories. This is the law at the most basic level. Prior to 2008 the sexual relationship between those two would have been legally permissable if they were both in Canada.

Also, I think some of you are missing one important part of the story here:

A Yellowstone County district judge Monday ordered a former Senior High teacher convicted of raping a 14-year-old female student who later committed suicide to spend 30 days in jail.

Judge G. Todd Baugh sentenced Stacey Dean Rambold to 15 years in prison, with all but 31 days suspended, for sexual intercourse without consent.

Rambold, 54, will be given credit for one day already served. He was handcuffed and led to jail at the close of the hearing.



If this guy runs afoul of the law he will do that time. Its not as if he was only given 30 days and thats that. Yes, it sucks that he isn't incarcerated for that decade and a half, but hes still serving a lengthy sentence.

Also, don't take this as "El Bastardo says rape is a-ok" but Ulic isn't wrong with what hes saying here.

[Drow]

Fuck off with this shit.

http://i.imgur.com/BVMDfxr.gif

[Drow]

anyways back on topic :

have you not interacted with 14 year olds when you were in high school?

yea they young but damn they slooty

[BaoTurbo]

All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?

[El Bastardo]

All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?

Run. 14 or not, shes a female. As soon as shes not happy with you she'll turn on you and send you down the river. The age thing is just added leverage for them.

[NKC ONE]

All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?

Just asking for trouble. As a teacher, you would be approached/seduced by under-aged girls more often than other professions. You'd think they have some sort of training/seminar to tell them not to fuck des young hoes.

[Redlines_Daily]

...but the laws the law,

I hate when people say that,

that changes between states and countries and time

Exactly..so if age of consent is 18 in country A and 14 in country B, then it's rape in country A but not in B?

The law is not to be followed blindly, everything needs to be interpreted with common sense.

[drunkrussian]

there's really no way of knowing how or why she commited suicide. there's no point arguing about it. nobody will know.

agreed - stat rape and rape rape are different. yes age of consent is different across different countries. however a) in that country she wasn't legal b) teachers aren't supposed to fuck students therefore it's the guy's fault, it's stat rape and now he's gonna get rape raped in prison

i see the point ppl here are trying to make and it's correct, but it really doesn't matter?

[Phil@rise]

uh huh.

so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me

vs

if i brutally force myself into a woman while she screams in agony and is trying to get away from me.

both are rape i guess. for the people that have a very limited vocabulary. lol.

oh second example i stick a tire iron up her cunt too. and my buddies stick it in her pooper.

yeah, i am implying its not rape. and so is the judge. idiots.

You know what ULIC FUCK YOU!
Youre a piece of shit! So is anyone that agrees with you on the very nature of this. 14 fuckin years old she's a KID! Slutty or not it doesnt give an ADULT who has a full grasp or should on whats right and wrong and should know not to be slimey and take advantage of a weaker minded impressionable youth.
I got two daughters grow some balls raise a kid and then tell me that she asked for it. You got no idea how a young teens head works boy or girl and thats why we have laws like this in place to protect them from dirt bags like you.
Fuck man you got me so pissed I'd take a bat to your fuckin head if you were in front of me and expect a judge to say you were of equal responsibility.
Do the world a favor fuck off and die you fuckin assclown!

[twitchyzero]

All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?

that's why you teach at the college level:ifyouknow:

[chouchou]

You know what ULIC FUCK YOU!
Youre a piece of shit! So is anyone that agrees with you on the very nature of this. 14 fuckin years old she's a KID! Slutty or not it doesnt give an ADULT who has a full grasp or should on whats right and wrong and should know not to be slimey and take advantage of a weaker minded impressionable youth.
I got two daughters grow some balls raise a kid and then tell me that she asked for it. You got no idea how a young teens head works boy or girl and thats why we have laws like this in place to protect them from dirt bags like you.
Fuck man you got me so pissed I'd take a bat to your fuckin head if you were in front of me and expect a judge to say you were of equal responsibility.
Do the world a favor fuck off and die you fuckin assclown!

LOL.

What in the fuck? Nowhere in Ulic's post(s) did he even insinuate in the slightest that whatever occurred between the two parties was okay. He simply emphasized that the connection between the sexual encounter and the suicide shouldn't be so quickly judged upon, and that 'rape' has a relatively unclear definition in different parts of the world which is generally true. We're talking about the definition of the word here and how easily it is thrown around in most circumstances, not the morality of the act.

Chill out, do the world a favour and read with a bit of a clearer, more open mind. The thunder's gotten to you.

[Lamboda]

You know actually after many a lurkings, i have to back up ulic's posts. He seems very rational and looks at the big picture of things. Reading his posts opens my mind. He presents his arguments in a way that makes you think. Sometimes it could be wrong, however we are all entitled to our own opinion.

For my two cents, yeah i agree that he is in a very shitty situation and that he shouldny be fooling around with underage teenagers, but there are almost always other complications. We dont know both sides of the stories. Dont automatically assume one is right or wrong without seeking the truth. I mean we wouldnt want to be ticketed for an offence unfairly too.
Posted via RS Mobile

[westopher]

All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?
Nothing, because 14 year old girls still look like little kids. If I was too much of a hurtbag to get over 18 pussy, I'd go watch a lexi belle anal scene and beat my dick like it owed me money. Fucking a 14 year old is heinous, because its fucking a KID, in every stretch of the imagination.

[El Bastardo]

Agreed. Guys, I think we can all agree the actual act was morally deplorable. This discussion is on the legal issues surrounding this case.

[DragonChi]

I remember we had this discussion about age of consent on RS before.
It used to be 14 in Canada in the early 2000s. In some countries it still is.

The problem, IMO, is the teacher was in a position of power, and abused it. Hence, why it seems alright for a 16 yr old and a 14 yr old to have sex. Though, once you go down that road, why does it seem wrong if the girl is ready for sex to begin with?

And no I wouldn't if they attempted to seduce me.

[snails]

too many stupid people cant read..

he shouldnt be fucking 14 year olds. but it doesn't automatically mean we should blame him for her suicide.

that was a quote from Ulic's first post and he carried it throughout this thread...

and i do agree with him and this is why, we have levels on every sort of crime that is committed ie. 1st degree vs 2nd degree murder, theft over/under $5000, and speeding tickets based on the severity of the crime. READ BEFORE YOU RESPOND

if by alot of people logic here this is a black and white case... then your speeding ticket for doing 8 over should be the same as a 40+ over and your car should be impounded.

if the lady behind the wheel of the SUV who had "accidentally" run over that elderly lady should have gotten life in prison for vehicular homicide

and maybe you should go to prison for theft when you were younger for how many 5cent candies were in your bag when at the corner store...

i do not condone anything illegal, especially rape. but i do agree that there is levels, a younger girl consenting but not legally old enough is far less severe than someone of age being beaten and raped withing an inch of their lives.

now back to Ulic's question... can he be blamed for her suicide.. the short answer is: no

for it to take 3 years for her demons to catch up with her and decide at 17 it be too much, i dont buy it. we have all had bad things happen to us and as kids it is most dramatic/emotional right after the incident has taken place.

we all know what its like to be mad/upset... the feeling wears off pretty quick... and 3 years later? its gone.. just a stupid memory... there was no indication that this had followed her in the way of bullying or torture by her peers like apparent in other cases... there are other aspects in her life that she just wasnt capable of handling at the time.

[Gridlock]

Does anyone know why its called statutory rape, and not "statutory love making"?

Because an older person, in a position of authority no less is taking advantage of a younger person.

Not all rape is hunting women through the woods late at night.

A lot of it is people they know, going too far. Not taking no, and using a position of authority(physical) to get what they want.

So a teacher has more experience and more savvy to use the same techniques to get a girl to give it up. Sure, less bruises, but same level of manipulation of a situation for a physical goal.

I don't think we can blame her suicide on him. I personally feel that these things end up having a removed level of responsibility. Would she still have killed herself? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to prove.

But a 14 year old has one get out of jail free card to play.

She was 14.

She is not responsible for her actions. She was left in the care of those that were supposed to.

And they failed her. And fucked her instead.

[MarkyMark]

When did they change the law from 14 to 16, like ten years ago? We're people as outraged back then when an adult fucked a 14 year old or was it all good cause the law said it was A-OK?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Gridlock]

Great question! I'm glad you asked.

I think it would have been absolutely disgusting to have a guy that was 25+ having sex with a 14 year old. Hell, I think its still gross for a 16 year old TBH. Especially in a position of authority.

BUT...we get to condemn him socially, but not for rape.

I don't think there were a lot of "relationships" here that were affected by the changes to the law.

Things that weren't said:
"Oh shit honey, we can't date anymore because today its stat rape."

[Gridlock]

The problem, IMO, is the teacher was in a position of power, and abused it. Hence, why it seems alright for a 16 yr old and a 14 yr old to have sex. Though, once you go down that road, why does it seem wrong if the girl is ready for sex to begin with?


You mean, if she has sex with someone closer to her in age?

We could have a loser guy within his own social circle look like an absolute hero to a horny teenaged girl that's 14.

He has a car...and money..and a cool place where he lives...and he's so funny! and He's into me! ME! And I'm an awkward teenager that is JUST learning how the world works.

She doesn't know that: he's about to be fired. The credit card is racked, his car is a piece of shit with a worn clutch and his last relationship was with a 1-900 number.

A kid of the same age is on the same bracket. He doesn't know what he's doing and should be of the same mindset.

That's why.

[snails]

so a 19 year old "adult" sleeps with a 16 year old "minor" (15 if a 16 year old is in the clear)

is the same as

35 year old "adult" sleeping with a "14" year old minor?

like posted previously... there does needs be levels that takes age, consent, and other things into account... wrong is wrong of course, but lack of judgment vs malicious intent are the same as someone accidentally running someone over "that 90% of revscene said didnt deserve a day of jailtime" vs aiming at someone and pinning that gas pedal...

[Culverin]

I'm with Ulic here.
He's clearly separated what has been traditionally defined as rape, to what is legally classified as such.
He brought up the point that they are 2 different things.
Both societal morality and legally, it is a very slippery slope for what constitutes an adult.
The mere fact that drinking age, consent, driving age, new drivers programs, all of these create a blurry line here in North America.


If a 14 year old isn't responsible for their actions, their mother and father have failed in raising them, failed in parenting, and failed in teaching them from right and wrong.

Gridlock, you say at 14, she's not responsible for her actions.
However, I would argue that is strictly a legal definition.
You have been using legal definitions and societal morale language interchangeably.
The result of that is a weak argument.
I'm not sure if you have it sorted out in your own head, but that's not my point.
I just wanted to highlight that how you are phrasing things, the end result is not very effective.





However, let's just throw a curve ball here and do a quick self check.
Perhaps some people have their emotions are clouding their reason.


I'm a guy. I'm older and I'm an adult now.
I'm pretty sure I've wanted to get laid since I was 10, probably before that.
I would jump at every chance I got.
Looking back on my younger self, had I nailed the "hot teacher" in grade 8, there would be high fives all around.
To my buddies then.
And I would probably still bring it up sitting around drinking beers with the boys.


Now let's say that I'm a girl.
Oh, now does it make you feel like it's a bit weird now?

Is it because we have been brought up to believe that girls have less logic, judgement and reason than boys?
However, girls at that age are probably a good few years ahead of their male peers in terms of maturity.

[murd0c]

The issue here is people need to have more of an objective opinion rather then dealing with the feelings about what what their reaction would be if this happened to a family member. It is a horrible situtation no questions asked but Ulic has made a number of legit points using an objective opinion which people should respect and understand.

:)

[Drow]

Lol phil@rise....

Clearly you need to work on your reading comprehension skills

[Speed2K]

Did anyone here actually read the article?

The linked articles does not blame the teacher for her suicide. Whether you believe the incident to be rape or not is irrelevant b/c he actually admitted to a rape charge!

The real issue is he only got 30 days for the rape charge! That's pretty fucked up! :fulloffuck:

[snails]

Did anyone here actually read the article?

The linked articles does not blame the teacher for her suicide. Whether you believe the incident to be rape or not is irrelevant b/c he actually admitted to a rape charge!

The real issue is he only got 30 days for the rape charge! That's pretty fucked up! :fulloffuck:

well if the law states that it is rape based on the age of the girl rather than the consent then there is not much he can do.. unless he wants to lie about his age..

:badpokerface:

this story is full of :fulloffuck:

[Phil@rise]

Lol phil@rise....

Clearly you need to work on your reading comprehension skills

No I dont.
Him and many others standing by him are displaying predatory nature. Him and many of his fan bois are trying to come up with reasons to justify such predatory nature.
This is not the stone age. We as a society should not be preying on the weakness of youth to get layed. That is exactly what Ulic and his legions of fans are suggesting is ok. Its not the first time Ulic has suggested rape is sometimes excusable. He continually degrades the value of women and children by doing so. I'm not even touching on the fact this girl killed herself.

[snails]

No I dont.
Him and many others standing by him are displaying predatory nature. Him and many of his fan bois are trying to come up with reasons to justify such predatory nature.
This is not the stone age. We as a society should not be preying on the weakness of youth to get layed. That is exactly what Ulic and his legions of fans are suggesting is ok. Its not the first time Ulic has suggested rape is sometimes excusable. He continually degrades the value of women and children by doing so. I'm not even touching on the fact this girl killed herself.

coming from the guy willing to "bash a guys head in" based on an opinion over the internet?

lets go back to grade 3 and learn to read bud, not 1 single person in the entire thread said that rape was good.. nor that this wasnt statutory rape.

simply compared severity and it was a good point... go back to my post about how ALL laws carry levels of severity... and this should be no different.

also. for someone who runs a "shop" you should consider acting a little more professional.

[lowside67]

No I dont.
Him and many others standing by him are displaying predatory nature. Him and many of his fan bois are trying to come up with reasons to justify such predatory nature.
This is not the stone age. We as a society should not be preying on the weakness of youth to get layed. That is exactly what Ulic and his legions of fans are suggesting is ok. Its not the first time Ulic has suggested rape is sometimes excusable. He continually degrades the value of women and children by doing so. I'm not even touching on the fact this girl killed herself.
You're normally a voice of reason on this forum, but this time you are obviously letting your emotions get the better of your logic.

Ulic is saying 2 things:

1) The fact that girl had relations with her older teacher does not guarantee that was the reason she committed suicide

2) Statutory rape and physical rape are both wrong but are not the same crime and are [and should be] treated differently.

They are both common sense, logical, and FACT. I don't know what leg you think you are standing on but you are just looking like a raving maniac right now...

Mark

[Energy]

You're normally a voice of reason on this forum, but this time you are obviously letting your emotions get the better of your logic.

Ulic is saying 2 things:

1) The fact that girl had relations with her older teacher does not guarantee that was the reason she committed suicide

2) Statutory rape and physical rape are both wrong but are not the same crime and are [and should be] treated differently.

They are both common sense, logical, and FACT. I don't know what leg you think you are standing on but you are just looking like a raving maniac right now...

Mark

Agreed, you really can't think of this in terms of black and white.

There has to be room to take into account factors that might affect the culpability and blameworthiness of the accused. There has to be discretion in sentencing that reflects that even if the "rape" is against the law, ideas like Ulic's will affect the degree of punishment.

[dinosaur]

2) Statutory rape and physical rape are both wrong but are not the same crime and are [and should be] treated differently.[/b]

Mark

Well, first in regards to Phil, let's all remember that he's a bit older and has a daughter in this age range that we are all discussing.

It's a little different when you can go from nameless, hypothetical child on the internet to "what would happen if this were MY child"

Second. Stat rape and physical rape ARE different, sure. But are they?

You know the statistics for a full on, woman running in the park rape are actually surprisingly low? Most "rape" is actually date rape and such where a woman said no and the perpetrator went ahead anyway.

I'm not trying to demean anyone's rape here. The point I'm trying to make is you don't ALWAYS need to beat the shit out of a woman to rape her.

If she is so drunk that she is passing out and cannot inform consent...it is rape. But we've heard all over this forum that she wanted it, and its her fault because she shouldn't have been drinking around guys, because they get all rapey on a saturday night.

So this is why Phil is a little upset, and I'm a little upset and Dino takes things just a hair more personally, because in the face of such stupidity, it makes our heads spin.

I'm sorry, I am actually NOT trying to be offensive with that. I'm really not.

But the opinions actually get to the point where it is so stupid its offensive.

The teacher was 54.

You are never going to convince me that it is ok for a 54 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old. It is wrong, and thank god..illegal.

He was in a position of authority. Makes it even more wrong.

It would be wrong for him to have sex with her, in my mind up to the age of 18. Just not illegal.

I can condemn him socially at that point, because it is my opinion, but I cannot have him held without changing the laws of the country.

But let me be clear: Arguing that statutory rape is somehow different than "physical" rape is a misnomer. He may not have used fists and duct tape, but he manipulated a young girl into providing physical satisfaction and gratification for himself.

It ain't right.

[Gridlock]

Forgot to log her out, if you are curious why dino is talking about herself in the 3rd person ;)

[El Bastardo]

:ahwow: Dear diary, today I learned that Dinosaur and Gridlock are the same person. :ahwow:

[Phil@rise]

coming from the guy willing to "bash a guys head in" based on an opinion over the internet?

lets go back to grade 3 and learn to read bud, not 1 single person in the entire thread said that rape was good.. nor that this wasnt statutory rape.

simply compared severity and it was a good point... go back to my post about how ALL laws carry levels of severity... and this should be no different.

also. for someone who runs a "shop" you should consider acting a little more professional.

You know Hitler had an opinion.
Ulics opinion translates as such.
Its ok if shes slutty and under age. Its ok if she consented even tho she is grossly underage. Its not as bad as "real rape" she didnt get beat up. I know Ulic nor any of you said rape was ok but Ulic and many of you denounce the severity and merrit of some rape situations and thats disgusting. Rape is Rape.

Dino is right this is a very sensitive subject for me having a daughter not much older and I have to trust the people she's in the care of during the day wont take advantage of her. My family has also been thru a rape. But it was just a lowly not real date rape (Ulic would say that) she was on a date then taken into an alley and raped behind a dumpster and left there drunk embarrassed and confused. It messed her up!
Perhaps none of you have any insight to a teenage girls developing mind but I do. I raised a teenage girl by myself. Its not a very stable secure or always happy place. Its a confused lonely dark place full of uncertainty and looking for someone to trust and easily confused. They do not have the conviction strength or confidence of a woman in her 20's or older.
So I would bash a guys head in for a kid. Its not predatory its defensive. Someone has to stick up for the them cus its clear so many men wont, they make excuses as to justify actions instead of preventing them.

[lowside67]

But the opinions actually get to the point where it is so stupid its offensive.

...

You are never going to convince me that it is ok for a 54 year old man to have sex with a 14 year old. It is wrong, and thank god..illegal.
Thanks for rehashing the same thing for the 11th time... just to make this plain so it is clear for all: everybody in this thread is in agreement that this it is not legal OR morally correct for a 54 year old to have sex with a 14 year old.

The question being discussed is whether her knowingly going along with it (I wont say instigating it as we have no idea what happened, but that certainly does happen... there is no shortage of young, if confused, girls with older man fantasies) is the same crime as him having a friend duct-tape over her mouth and physically restrain her while she is kicking and screaming to get away. My opinion, and that of several people in this thread is that it is WRONG but it is not the SAME.

It would be wrong for him to have sex with her, in my mind up to the age of 18. Just not illegal.

It ain't right.
So what exactly changes from the day before her 18th birthday to the day after? This is the whole problem with this line in the sand at any age is it just isn't logical.

No person magically transforms from an "irresponsible child incapable of deciding whether they should be seeking sexual gratification regardless of how it may affect them emotionally" when they are 17 to a "sophisticated adult capable of distinguishing between motives for the same sexual gratification" overnight.

I agree there needs to be a line in the sand as it's unenforceable without an exact limit, but age is actually a really shitty measure of one's ability to make intelligent decisions. I've met 14 year olds that I would trust their judgement and emotional intelligence over other 21 year olds.

In before somebody somehow misconstrues this as I support raping underage children...

Mark

[lowside67]

You know Hitler had an opinion.

...

So I would bash a guys head in for a kid. Its not predatory its defensive
Hitler's opinion was actually that he had a better idea than everybody else what morally correct and right - and he was not opposed to using violence to accomplish his agenda. Which is actually exactly what you are suggesting in your post.

Mark

[RiceIntegraRS]

Dinosaur, somehow u think that this 14yr old girl had no choice than to sleep with teacher. If she didnt wanna do it she wouldnt of. The way I see it is that she liked the teacher, slept with him, had a relationship with him. As soon as there relstionship was exposed she was known as "that girl". Few years later she still couldn't shake off that reputation then RIP
Posted via RS Mobile

[GLOW]

Well, first in regards to Phil, let's all remember that he's a bit older and has a daughter in this age range that we are all discussing.

It's a little different when you can go from nameless, hypothetical child on the internet to "what would happen if this were MY child"


This.

Not to mention one of the posts he's arguing against starts off with "so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me" it's hard not to have it strike a chord with a father...

[Gridlock]

Dinosaur, somehow u think that this 14yr old girl had no choice than to sleep with teacher. If she didnt wanna do it she wouldnt of. The way I see it is that she liked the teacher, slept with him, had a relationship with him. As soon as there relstionship was exposed she was known as "that girl". Few years later she still couldn't shake off that reputation then RIP
Posted via RS Mobile

So some quality victim blaming/slut shaming.

I'm saying she could make the choice all she wanted, but she was in no way mentally prepared to make that choice, and understand the ramifications of it.

As such, she killed herslef. Why? Because she got a little older, and removed from the situation and started realizing the consequences...but I do recognize that this is complete conjecture.

She may have been bored or sumthin.

[chouchou]

Woah woah, we're now treading into really obscene areas when we begin drawing comparisons with Hitler. That's a whole other conversation that has no place in one such as this where we should simply agree to disagree.

Nobody here has a problem with however sensitive the subject may or may not be to you. As a whole I'd like to believe that we are capable of sympathy and understanding. Once again, and this will be the last time myself and/or others should repeat this, nobody is saying rape in any way shape or form is okay, no matter how slutty or underage what have you.
The merit and severity of individual events that can bring rape into question, however, DOES matter, and from a legal point of view I would find it hardpressed for you to be able to dispute that.

I apologize if I may appear to be attacking your point of view, or trying to defer the seriousness of rape in itself and what you have gone through. But situations like these are NOT THE NORM, and although it is undoubtedly beneficial to be wary they happen, to live in fear of something like this would truly devalue one's life experiences.

Correct, few of us know what it's like watching a teenage girl mature - however, given the proper outlook on life and providing them with the necessary resources to make proper decisions, I have faith that most would be able to keep themselves out of situations like this. Simply put, this is an isolated circumstance and story that shouldn't be perceived as a regular occurrence.

Anyway, I will stand by the notion that this topic does hit home to you. It is a scary world out there. But attempting to maintain an objective point of view when debating about a topic very sensitive to you probably isn't the best approach.

[snails]

and this is exactly why some of the laws here are so fucked and people like this slip through the system with 1 month in jail.... because this ISNT BLACK AND WHITE!

what im trying to say is if they had some sort of system, sure.. he wouldnt serve 15 years... but at least he would serve 5 or something like that because a system has been established for situations like this regardless of how isolated.

keep ignoring logic.. law isnt based on emotion. if it was im sure this guy would have been serving much longer than a couple weeks

[freakshow]

Some of you may think you know what Ulic meant, but it's certainly not how some of his posts come off. I don't blame Phil for being pissed off.

uh huh.

so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me

vs

if i brutally force myself into a woman while she screams in agony and is trying to get away from me.

both are rape i guess. for the people that have a very limited vocabulary. lol.

oh second example i stick a tire iron up her cunt too. and my buddies stick it in her pooper.

yeah, i am implying its not rape. and so is the judge. idiots.

Now I'm not sure how that comes off to most of you, but it sure as hell doesn't say "Yes, I believe all rape is wrong, and that certain types of rape should possibly be treated differently than others".

[Phil@rise]

Bingo! Freakshow thankyou!
Theres a few of us in this thread with "reading comprehension"

[RiceIntegraRS]

Ulic was being sarcastic @PHIL
Posted via RS Mobile

[snails]

@rise

none of that takes away from any of my posts saying that there should be a system based on severity of crime, your pissing contest with Ulic wont change that.

or there could be no system for situations like this... and people can continue to fall through the cracks with minimal punishment... your call

[freakshow]

Ulic was being sarcastic @PHIL
Posted via RS Mobile

No, he wasn't. That was reply number 7 in the whole thread.

[dinosaur]

So what exactly changes from the day before her 18th birthday to the day after? This is the whole problem with this line in the sand at any age is it just isn't logical.

No person magically transforms from an "irresponsible child incapable of deciding whether they should be seeking sexual gratification regardless of how it may affect them emotionally" when they are 17 to a "sophisticated adult capable of distinguishing between motives for the same sexual gratification" overnight.

I agree there needs to be a line in the sand as it's unenforceable without an exact limit, but age is actually a really shitty measure of one's ability to make intelligent decisions. I've met 14 year olds that I would trust their judgement and emotional intelligence over other 21 year olds.

In before somebody somehow misconstrues this as I support raping underage children...

Mark

I understand what you are trying to say, but this is a weak argument.

You can make the same statement to driving, voting, drinking, buying cigarettes, gambling, etc.

These types of laws are in place based on brain development. In fact, a human brain does not reach its full development until about 23 year old.

[GLOW]

:ahwow: Dear diary, today I learned that Dinosaur and Gridlock are the same person. :ahwow:

wait so is it dino or gridlock thanking this post?
:fulloffuck:

[Gridlock]

wait so is it dino or gridlock thanking this post?
:fulloffuck:

we're all back to where we belong :)

I make one little mistake, and chaos ensues.

[Gridlock]

full development until about 23 year old.

as evidenced by Revscene.

[GLOW]

we're all back to where we belong :)

I make one little mistake, and chaos ensues.

balance fully restored by the RS Justice League

[radioman]

This is how armored truck robbery's start.

[xSin]

so the guy "statutory raped" her.

so you guys blame him for her suicide?

Not necessarily what's being suggested, perhaps a better look at the situation is in order. Maybe if we analyze instead how society treats victims of situations such as this, we'll have the answer to her suicide.

that is a completely separate issue from the girl's suicide.
what if they found out she fucked other men? what if she woulda killed herself regardless of who she seduced.

the man is a loser for doing what he did.

and the girl was probably a bigger loser and if she didn't kill herself, she'd definitely grow up to be a bigger loser.

There's an awful lot of what if's in very few lines there. Lets stick to what we DO know about this situation. An adult (cognitively, emotionally and physically matured) took advantage and sexually abused a young, impressionable girl who was definitely NOT cognitively or emotionally or physically prepared for what happened. Instead of focusing on the rape date and the suicide date as two seperate entities lets consider the impact the rape and its complete lack of consequences had on the young girl. Think about the reactions here in this thread and how many people are so quick to assume that she could have a full grasp of consequences of her own actions.

listen, if i were 14 again and i could seduce my hot teacher... i would. and i would know exactly what the fuck i was doing. everything i did when i was 14 i knew exactly what i was doing and what consequences there were.

Not everyone is you... and when I look back at my own youth, I think about some of the stuff I did and I think "damn that was stupid" ...it was stupid because I couldn't see my behavior "then" as I can now. That's what happens when someone matures in a physical, cognitive and emotional fashion. They learn shit. I suppose it could be argued that you're just as stupid now as you were when you were 14 though ;)

look at the big picture, no matter what under the law he's gonna get viewed as a "rapist". even if they were totally in love, even if she drugged him and strapped him down and "raped" him. he, under gridlock and dinosaurs mentality, would still have technically "raped" her. he CANNOT win.

plus back to the original topic... obviously the judge sees this predicament. and lowered his sentence.

and obviously, there's a focus on the fact that she's a troubled youth. you can't blame everyone the baby shits on before it takes a fall.

Are you really suggesting that an adult male is powerless and incapable of defending himself against being strapped down by a 14 year old girl?

Perhaps if that adult male lacks the cognitive ability to assess the situation at hand (Young girl asking him into an inappropriate circumstance based on your own theoretical scenario of her drugging him) and staying out of it.... perhaps YOU yourself lack that ability. Or perhaps you have the ability to assess your life situations and know something is wrong and do it anyways... which is why in your theoretical scenario of her drugging and roping him, the man will still be at fault. He never should've put himself in that situation to begin with. That's how adults are supposed to think, that's how this teacher, not just an adult but an adult in a position of power and authority over the young girl who was in his care and responsibility was supposed to think.

14 year old girls when you see them dressing provocatively they're not fully aware yet of the impact dressing in such a manner can have. That's why normal people upon seeing such outfits, typically wonder what on earth the parents are thinking letting their kids out like that . A 14 year old, a child, does not comprehend the same way we do in which clothes can be used to illicit a reaction. A 14 year old doesn't typically dress like a "slut" to "get some action" -- She does so because peer pressure and example has led her to believe that it is "cool" and she tries to fit in. That's why if you "fuck a slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced you" you're in the wrong, her brain literally has not developed enough for her to fully grasp and understand her own actions.

[Gridlock]

also. for someone who runs a "shop" you should consider acting a little more professional.

I'd like to address this.

He's got my support. NOT because we share the same opinion, but goddamn, thanks for having one!

How easy would it be for him to sit there and placate any opinion whether he agrees with it, disagrees with it or whatever for the almighty dollar.

Here we have a sponsor that actually USES the site and actually USES his opinion as opposed to "here, buy my shit" posts left right and center.

I think that's pretty awesome actually.

If you agree that this is pretty awesome, then we need to be able to separate the man from the business.

[StylinRed]

On a side note


A guy in the US was sentenced to life in prison for web dating and carrying on short term relationships with women because they got so drunk on the first date they dont remember consenting to sex with him but their sexual relationships continued for a couple weeks after that and they still keep the presents he's bought them but they're scorned because he broke it off with them and they found out that he lied about his wealth and career (he told them he was an astronaut or doctor or from money etc etc)

no link sorry this was on a show the other night i think it was Dateline or 20/20

[kkttsang]

"so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me"

I don't have a daughter and i am offended, the fact that you used "your slutty daughter" made it sound like a personal attack, maybe that's not how you want it to come off but i can see how anyone on here with a daughter will be offended by that strong statement.

[Hurricane]

"so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me"

I don't have a daughter and i am offended, the fact that you used "your slutty daughter" made it sound like a personal attack, maybe that's not how you want it to come off but i can see how anyone on here with a daughter will be offended by that strong statement.

You are not familiar with the generic you? impersonal you? indefinite you? We use it often to refer to an unspecified person or people in general. It doesn't mean YOU Maybe YOU need to brush up on your English skills.

Also, he is referring to a 'slutty' 14 year old. I don't think the implication is that every 14 year old is a slut.

If you happened to raise one of those yourself - well I have no comment.

Assuming you raised a child/young adult with strong values, good judgement, and common sense. I doubt she is jumping into bed voluntarily with adults.

While all 30 year olds are pretty obviously adults. 14 year olds (females in particular due to genetic development) can be all over the spectrum as far as physical/mental maturity. It wasn't so long ago where adult men were marrying girls around that age in the west and it was considered pretty normal. 14 year old girls are married regularly in countries all over the world even today.

I guess the point is, the judge obviously was able to evaluate the case a lot more thoroughly than we are with such limited information. I have no doubt that this particular situation was more in line with a 14 year old young adult making a conscious (albeit bad) decision, in which her life circumstances likely hold some accountability, along with her mental/physical development. She was likely more 'adult' than some of the girls she is probably being mentally transposed onto by some posters in this thread.

Ill go with the judges decision, until you present some convincing evidence aside from the number on a birth certificate.

[dinosaur]

a 14 year old young adult

Well, ain't that an oxymoron.

I don't care how big her boobs are or whether she started menstruating at 11...her brain development and decision making is that of a child.

[GLOW]

:inoutugh:

[Gridlock]

I just want to know...where is that cut off now?

13, 12?

Where is the line where you guys who are taking any approach other than "ew" might say that its enough? Where does good times become child abuse?

Case by case basis? What indicators should she exhibit that she can be determined to be ready to fuck a retiree? Attire enough, or does she need to talk like she wants it?

So by that logic, I could show you a slutty 10 year old, fuck, I have Ulic's attention already and as long as she walks the walk and talks the talk...then its cool.

Holy shit some of you need to grow up.

[Hurricane]

Well, ain't that an oxymoron.

I don't care how big her boobs are or whether she started menstruating at 11...her brain development and decision making is that of a child.

That's a pretty broad brush you're using.

Is a 17 year old male capable of making consequential decisions? Because he is approximately at the same level of brain development as the average 14 year old girl. There have been more than 20 underage boys executed in the US in the past couple of decades - do you vehemently oppose all of those as well?? Lets imagine here you are not oppose to the death penalty, because that is an entirely different political argument altogether. Even if those boys were spending the rest of their lives in prison, they still made some very short-sighted decisions as children (according to you) that will effect them for the rest of their lives.

My point is, you cant really say a 14 year old, is a 14 year old, is a 14 year old. When a society can accept that a 16 year old boy is fit for lethal injection as an adult they must also accept that some 14 year old girls are mentally capable of deciding who to sleep with in some capacity anyhow. Please don't mix up your own feelings against capital punishment with having any relevance to this discussion.

Just because you were wearing one piece pajamas, playing with teddy ruxpin, and going to bed by 8pm when you were 14, doesn't mean everyone else in the world fits into your mental image of what a 14 year old is.

I think you would be quite surprised at what kind of life decisions some 14 year old girls are making around the world. You don't even have to leave your own country in fact.

I just want to know...where is that cut off now?

13, 12?

So by that logic, I could show you a slutty 10 year old, fuck, I have Ulic's attention already and as long as she walks the walk and talks the talk...then its cool.

Holy shit some of you need to grow up.

Nice straw man argument. No one said its cool to sleep with a 14 year old, let alone a 10 year old.

99% of our cutoffs is where something becomes morally unacceptable. For most of us who are adults, that means people well above the minimum legal age.

After that and for people with lower moral standards, the cutoff is the law. Once the law is broken, the situation needs to be evaluated in a court, to determine the nature of the deviance, and obviously the punishment to be applied. Which seems to have happened here.

I think its disgusting and unacceptable a teacher slept with a 14 year old, regardless of how you look at it. But 14 is near the cusp of what is legally acceptable in our society, 10 is not.

Also, to both of you, and the rest of the people with their panties in a knot. No one in this thread has said its 'OK' to sleep with 14 year old girls.

No one says its advisable, desirable, interesting, or any other like minded word.

The point being made, is there are different variations of an offense such as rape in the same way there are differences in a crime like murder.. Some 14 year old females, and correspondingly 16/17 year old males are obviously capable of adult-like decision making. That has a lot to do with their upbringing, lifestyle, friends, and development.

So to assume the teacher is a disgusting pedophilic rapist who deserves the gas chamber solely based on the girls age of 14, is a bit of a stretch itself alone.

[dinosaur]

That's a pretty broad brush you're using.


Actually, its not.

Here is one (of thousands) scientific example. It is a very good read:
http://www.temple.edu/psychology/lds/documents/CognitiveandAffectiveDEvelopmentTICS.pdf

The impact of this continued maturation on emotional, intellectual and behavioral development has yet to be thoroughly studied, but there is considerable evidence that the second decade of life is a period of great activity with respect to changes in brain structure and function, especially in regions and systems associated with response inhibition, the calibration of risk and reward, and emotion regulation. Contrary to earlier beliefs about brain maturation in adolescence, this activity is not limited to the early adolescent period, nor is it invariably linked to processes of pubertal maturation.

Two particular observations about brain development in adolescence are especially pertinent to our understanding of psychological development during this period. First, much brain development during adolescence is in
the particular brain regions and systems that are key to the regulation of behavior and emotion and to the perception and evaluation of risk and reward. Second, it appears that changes in arousal and motivation brought on by pubertal maturation precede the development of regulatory competence in a manner that creates a disjunction between the adolescent’s affective experience and his or her ability to regulate arousal and motivation.
To the extent that the changes in arousal and motivation precede the development of regulatory competence – a reasonable speculation, but one that has yet to be confirmed – the developments of early adolescence may
well create a situation in which one is starting an engine without yet having a skilled driver behind the wheel.



You are misunderstanding science and brain development with societal assumptive norms. You can say that "kids these days" are more responsible because they have been exposed to more stimuli, for example, but that is a perception. The actual evolutionary development of the human brain is not reactive to emotional or social paradigms.

We may THINK teenagers are maturing younger or girls are more mature that guys, but those are cultural or social stigmas.

This is the reason these laws are set a definitive ages. They were not arbitrarily set.

[Hurricane]

Well, ain't that an oxymoron.

I don't care how big her boobs are or whether she started menstruating at 11...her brain development and decision making is that of a child.

That's a pretty broad brush you're using.

Actually, its not.

Here is one (of thousands) scientific example. It is a very good read:
http://www.temple.edu/psychology/lds/documents/CognitiveandAffectiveDEvelopmentTICS.pdf


First. From your article.

Some aspects of brain development are
coincident with, and likely linked to, neuroendocrinologi-
cal changes occurring at the time of puberty

So your own post would suggest that if in fact girls are reaching puberty at a younger age (which we know is true from numerous academic studies), some aspects of their brain development is also likely occurring at an earlier stage.

So, not sure why you posted an article that basically contradicted what you are saying. Also, you might notice there is a key difference between brain function and structure. There are certainly not the 1000's of studies you claim regarding adolescent brain function development. Function is what you are talking about here, not structure.

You are misunderstanding science and brain development with societal assumptive norms. You can say that "kids these days" are more responsible because they have been exposed to more stimuli, for example, but that is a perception. The actual evolutionary development of the human brain is not reactive to emotional or social paradigms.

We may THINK teenagers are maturing younger or girls are more mature that guys, but those are cultural or social stigmas.

This is the reason these laws are set a definitive ages. They were not arbitrarily set.

First...are you serious??? Brain development is not affected by emotional influences? There is all sorts of evidence to suggest this is bullshit. Unfortunately when someone is repeatedly molested and/or abused by their step parent while growing up we can't go to another dimension and ask their unabused doppelganger to submit to a CT scan so we can examine structural differences in their brain development. But all sorts of studies suggest emotional and social stimuli affect the brains development in various ways.

Also, I don't think I am misunderstanding anything. I never once in my post said children are more capable of decisions these days because they have big breasts. You may have had some previous arguments with people in your life about this topic, but no need to put words into my mouth from those.

This whole idea of current girls vs. past was not something I referred to once.

Also, if these things were so etched in stone as you suggest, why only a few years ago did the age of consent rise 2 years in Canada. Was there a major scientific discovery?? Earth shattering brain development research?? Nope. Just some political pressure.

You are boring to argue with, you completely avoid the key points being discussed, and try to warp the discussion into something more favorable for your own agenda.

Two consenting sexually mature individuals does not equal an adult raping a small child. So unless you are arguing that, you agree with my point, and Ulic's, and this discussion can be over.

[smoothie.]

Thank you for posting, all you brain and behavior analysts.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Jassanova]

Judge now realizes that he could not give a suspended sentence of 30 days:

Judge orders new hearing in Montana rape case (http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-hearing-montana-rape-case-222107384.html)

[xeryusx]

http://cdn04.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/25/330x182px-LL-7dc6c095_micheal-jackson-eating-popcorn-theater-gif.gif

[AzNightmare]

http://cdn04.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/25/330x182px-LL-7dc6c095_micheal-jackson-eating-popcorn-theater-gif.gif

http://i39.tinypic.com/2igyh3o.jpg

Currently, the ad on the top post of the page in my browser...

:notbad: