[twitchyzero]

Microsoft buys Nokia's devices unit in a $7.2 billion bid for its mobile future | The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/2/4688530/microsoft-buys-nokias-devices-and-services-unit-unites-windows-phone)

One of the most enticing "what-ifs" of recent years has come true: Microsoft has purchased Nokia's Devices and Services unit, it announced today. It unites Windows Phone 8 with its biggest hardware supporter, and gives the company an integrated solution across hardware and software. When the deal closes in the first quarter of 2014, Microsoft will pay 3.79 billion Euros for Nokia's business, plus another 1.65 billion Euros for its portfolio of patents.

[scoobyej20]

Good bye Nokia...
Posted via RS Mobile

[FerrariEnzo]

Next on the chopping block, RIM :lawl:

[!Yaminashi]

Why Nokia never teamed with Google is beyond me..
Posted via RS Mobile

[ae101]

^
more like "why nokia never got with the program is beyond me"

[dangonay]

Great idea. Now MS will be like Apple - in complete control of their hardware and the OS/services that run on it. That's a huge advantage that Android will never be able to achieve. IMO, Windows Phones chances of really succeeding in mobile have just gone up substantially.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dangonay]

Why Nokia never teamed with Google is beyond me..
Posted via RS Mobile

Because Nokia is smart? Why be just another Android vendor along with countless others?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Spectre_Cdn]

Great idea. Now MS will be like Apple - in complete control of their hardware and the OS/services that run on it. That's a huge advantage that Android will never be able to achieve. IMO, Windows Phones chances of really succeeding in mobile have just gone up substantially.
Posted via RS Mobile

Google has Motorola, though.

So every mobile OS maker has the integrated ecosystem. Android and Windows Phone have finally caught up in this regard.

[!MiKrofT]

Windows Phone still has a long way to go though but we'll see. I'd definitely be more interested in jumping from android to windows phone over iOS.
Posted via RS Mobile

[SkinnyPupp]

Great idea. Now MS will be like Apple - in complete control of their hardware and the OS/services that run on it. That's a huge advantage that Android will never be able to achieve. IMO, Windows Phones chances of really succeeding in mobile have just gone up substantially.
Posted via RS Mobile
It is an advantage, but Google has sheer numbers and native apps and an OS that are better than either iOS or WinPhone.

[dangonay]

Google has Motorola, though.

So every mobile OS maker has the integrated ecosystem. Android and Windows Phone have finally caught up in this regard.
Big difference. When Google bought Motorola they bought an Android phone vendor that was having trouble selling devices (so much so that the CEO of Motorola was going to start suing other Android vendors to monetize their patent portfolio). When MS bought Nokia they bought the #1 seller of Windows Phones (everyone else is barely a blip).

Google + Motorola does not make for a compelling integrated ecosystem - they don't have enough of the market. What good is it for Android if Motorola makes some fantastic new devices, but they only represent a small portion of all the devices sold? Google + Samsung would make for a very compelling ecosystem. Unfortunately for Google it looks like Samsung has plans to do that on its own.

When Google bought Motorola there were concerns among Android vendors that Motorola would get "special treatment" from Google (like early access to the next version of Android before others had a chance to see it). Google had to specifically mention this when they acquired Motorola saying they wouldn't get preferential treatment. MS doesn't have this worry since most vendors are doing poorly selling Windows Phone. If MS gives Nokia "special treatment" (which I think is almost a given) I don't think the vendors will be too upset - it'll probably be what gets them off the fence and deciding to drop Windows Phone.

[dangonay]

It is an advantage, but Google has sheer numbers and native apps and an OS that are better than either iOS or WinPhone.

Would you say McDonald's has an advantage because they sell more burgers? Quantity means nothing when so many Android devices being sold are low end devices for emerging markets.

MS and Apple have one other advantage - they know how to code an OS after spending 30+ years and going through growing pains and countless mistakes. When the Surface RT came out I said it was a joke for using the crappy Tegra 3 processor. One thing that did become clear from benchmarks/tests though, is that MS spent time optimizing their OS - it clearly outperformed Android in similar hardware (something you can't easily check with iOS/Android since there isn't a device anywhere that has the exact same SoC).

Android requires more CPU power and RAM to accomplish tasks at the same performance level as iOS does. With so many different hardware devices out there it's impossible for OEM's to fully optimize the source for Android to get the maximum performance out of their devices (especially with companies like Qualcomm who are developing custom versions of ARM processors that are more efficient executing ARM code than the reference ARM designs that companies like Samsung use). Further, being a member of the OHA places limits on how much you can modify Android in order to maintain compatibility with Apps. So basically it's "compile it up and if it runs without errors let's ship it".

This is one area where Android will never be able to catch iOS (or Windows Phone depending on how MS handles licensing to OEMs).

[SkinnyPupp]

It depends on your perspective, and what you consider an 'advantage'

Out of 100 people who might see this thread, 98 or 99 are consumers and nothing more. We don't care about how much money these companies make, or if it's easy to develop for. What we care about is a product that meets our needs.

MS and Apple will have the advantage of a smooth running OS. Can't argue that. I switched to an iphone 5 from a Nexus about 4 or 5 weeks ago (in a trade, as my brother needed a phone that worked in Canada) and there are so many things I notice every day that I miss from Android. Being able to change your keyboard, having a notification bar with actual important information (to see the date on an iphone, you have to turn it off and back on again..), WIDGETS with important information like calendars, etc. Basically the main screen on an iphone is useless, it has NO information, just a list of apps. I have been using smartphones since before that term was invented I think, and going all the way back to Windows Mobile CE, you had all that information right there on the screen when you turned on the phone. IOS hides it inside every single app, and doesn't give developers access to anything else. Have a countdown timer running while using another app? Android would let you keep the time in the status bar, or even on the lock screen. With ios, even though it's an preinstalled app, you have to go into the clock app to see how much time is left.

And so on...

Maybe it's an advantage to have a more open OS, that allows more information to go to the consumer. But using ios as my main phone app for the last month, I can't feel but I have taken several steps backwards from using my WinMo phone over 10 years ago. Yes it performs smoothly most of the time (but not always), and yes the GPS/localization function works better than on my old phone, but the closed system really is painful to use, unless you really never used anything else.

Unless they code all this stuff into the OS itself (and maybe ios 7 will do that, although to get full performance you'll probably need an iphone 5S) the more open system, while not as smooth, is far more useful to the people who use it. IMO

I guess that info was sitting in my head for a while, but as far as emerging markets go, if all these emerging markets are starting out using Google services via their cheap Android phones, most likely they will continue to use them as they 'emerge'. I can't see that as being a bad thing for Google. They are just taking a different approach from Apple. MS is maybe doing a more Apple like thing, so I guess we'll see who wins in the end. Not that I really care, I just want a useful phone.. I don't care one bit who made the OS or marketed it.

[yray]

:fuckyea:

Bring back Zune so I can connect my WP8 with my comp seamlessly.

[Marshall Placid]

Great fit.

Low buyout price.

Market Cap of MSFT: $278.2 Billion (as of Friday).

Buyout price: $7.2 billion.

Ingenious.

Just thought MSFT should have done it much sooner.

Nokia ditched its own Symbian (sp) OS a few years ago (If I remember correctly) and chose MSFt's Windows.

I thought, back then... why not have MSFT just buy Nokia?

Nokia rules in the third-world and developing countries, and MSFT can use the manufacturing know-how and patents and customer base.

Software + hardware = good synergy.

Most mergers don't work well and end in a total combined LOWER market cap in the long-run.

This....

is perfect synergies at play (well... at least very soon when they integrate the work force, work processes, share patents, come up with new phones, etc.)

[!Yaminashi]

Because Nokia is smart? Why be just another Android vendor along with countless others?
Posted via RS Mobile

I was looking at it from a consumer POV.
Nokia build and call quality + android OS?

Nobody on here has ever thought "if only.."?
Posted via RS Mobile

[ScizzMoney]

:fuckyea:

Bring back Zune..

Not gonna lie. Never ever did I think that sentence would be typed.

[StylinRed]

RIP Nokia

As a fan of Nokia I and a plethora of others called it from day 1 when Elop was appointed CEO he was famously known as a trojan horse and he even joked about how ridiculous an idea that was, lo and behold ;)

RIP Nokia

as a shareholder though I am definitely a happy guy today

[MarkyMark]

Is Windows phone more popular in other parts of the world because I've never met one person that's used one
Posted via RS Mobile

[dangonay]

It depends on your perspective, and what you consider an 'advantage'

Out of 100 people who might see this thread, 98 or 99 are consumers and nothing more. We don't care about how much money these companies make, or if it's easy to develop for. What we care about is a product that meets our needs.

MS and Apple will have the advantage of a smooth running OS. Can't argue that. I switched to an iphone 5 from a Nexus about 4 or 5 weeks ago (in a trade, as my brother needed a phone that worked in Canada) and there are so many things I notice every day that I miss from Android. Being able to change your keyboard, having a notification bar with actual important information (to see the date on an iphone, you have to turn it off and back on again..), WIDGETS with important information like calendars, etc. Basically the main screen on an iphone is useless, it has NO information, just a list of apps. I have been using smartphones since before that term was invented I think, and going all the way back to Windows Mobile CE, you had all that information right there on the screen when you turned on the phone. IOS hides it inside every single app, and doesn't give developers access to anything else. Have a countdown timer running while using another app? Android would let you keep the time in the status bar, or even on the lock screen. With ios, even though it's an preinstalled app, you have to go into the clock app to see how much time is left.

And so on...

Maybe it's an advantage to have a more open OS, that allows more information to go to the consumer. But using ios as my main phone app for the last month, I can't feel but I have taken several steps backwards from using my WinMo phone over 10 years ago. Yes it performs smoothly most of the time (but not always), and yes the GPS/localization function works better than on my old phone, but the closed system really is painful to use, unless you really never used anything else.

Unless they code all this stuff into the OS itself (and maybe ios 7 will do that, although to get full performance you'll probably need an iphone 5S) the more open system, while not as smooth, is far more useful to the people who use it. IMO

I guess that info was sitting in my head for a while, but as far as emerging markets go, if all these emerging markets are starting out using Google services via their cheap Android phones, most likely they will continue to use them as they 'emerge'. I can't see that as being a bad thing for Google. They are just taking a different approach from Apple. MS is maybe doing a more Apple like thing, so I guess we'll see who wins in the end. Not that I really care, I just want a useful phone.. I don't care one bit who made the OS or marketed it.
Consumers will care because it's the developers that make their platform useful through their Apps. Developers need to make money, and if there'e nobody buying their Apps on a given platform then they're not likely to want to develop for it. Facebook, Yelp, Google, Twitter and the like will always be available on all platforms. To me having access to Facebook (as an example) isn't a benefit - it's something I expect. It's all the smaller devs with unique and interesting Apps that I care about.

Pretty much everything you mentioned is in iOS 7 via notifications. After using iOS 7 I doubt anyone can come up with a single useful thing a widget can do that will actually make me more productive or give me access to some information I'm currently "lacking".

The problem Google is having with these "cheap" devices is so many aren't tied into Google at all. Of the 190 or so million Android devices sold last quarter about 42% (or 80 million) did not have access to Google Play (they are white-box devices sold by companies who aren't members of the OHA). How does Google feel knowing that a full 40% of devices sold aren't putting a single dollar into their pockets?

The easiest way to see this is to look at revenue from Google Play and compare it to iTunes/App Store. iOS had 600 million devices as of this summer. Android had 900 million at the same time (they just announced they passed 1 billion). Yet the App Store rakes in between 2.3-2.6x the revenue that Google Play does despite having only 2/3rd the number of users. Adjusted for the number of users and the App Store makes about 3.5-3.9x as much as Google Play. For digital content like music and movies it's much worse. Apple makes about 6X (not a typo) the revenue as Google does. Adjusted for users and it's actually 9X the revenue. All those Android users and yet they're not being monetized.

I doubt an iPhone user buys 4X more Apps or 9X more music than a GS4 user would. Anyone who buys a high-end smartphone is going to want to use it as much as they can, and that means spending money on Apps. I think the only reason the numbers are so low is that for every GS4 sold there's 5 low-end phones sold to users who do nothing with their devices. I think this is also why Samsung is trying so hard to get developers to write Apps specifically for their Galaxy phones instead of writing generic Android Apps. They've got some great new hardware with fast processors and high-res displays yet they're stuck running Apps written to the lowest common denominator in terms of devices and API's. Tough to show off your newest smartphone when there aren't any Apps that can really take advantage of the hardware capabilities.

[!Yaminashi]

Is Windows phone more popular in other parts of the world because I've never met one person that's used one
Posted via RS Mobile

I knew one guy that used a windows mobile device.
Unfortunately I could never test it out because it constantly rebooted itself

[MarkyMark]

As far as apps go I haven't seen a whole lot on iOS that you can't get on android, and I've used both quite a bit. Maybe they have more games? I'm not a big mobile gamer
Posted via RS Mobile

[trancehead]

yes its a nice symbiotic relationship

Developers developing Apps <-> Consumer Base


============

interesting thing is with china is that over 90% of mobile devices being sold today are running Android. like Dangonay brought up, (im not sure of the percentage on this one) but %X of these devices come bundled with a Chinese market place for apps rather than Google Play

[mos_skeeto]

My last 3 phones were Android, iOS and Windows Mobile and I prefer both iOS and Windows over Android. Android is great because it lets you do pretty much whatever you want but for basic smartphone functions (texting, calling, copy paste, google, twitter) I enjoyed iOS and Windows most.

I want Windows to do well. I love the tile system for both it's speed and aesthetics and I always loved Nokia devices.

[SkinnyPupp]

Consumers will care because it's the developers that make their platform useful through their Apps. Developers need to make money, and if there'e nobody buying their Apps on a given platform then they're not likely to want to develop for it. Facebook, Yelp, Google, Twitter and the like will always be available on all platforms. To me having access to Facebook (as an example) isn't a benefit - it's something I expect. It's all the smaller devs with unique and interesting Apps that I care about.

Pretty much everything you mentioned is in iOS 7 via notifications. After using iOS 7 I doubt anyone can come up with a single useful thing a widget can do that will actually make me more productive or give me access to some information I'm currently "lacking".

The problem Google is having with these "cheap" devices is so many aren't tied into Google at all. Of the 190 or so million Android devices sold last quarter about 42% (or 80 million) did not have access to Google Play (they are white-box devices sold by companies who aren't members of the OHA). How does Google feel knowing that a full 40% of devices sold aren't putting a single dollar into their pockets?

The easiest way to see this is to look at revenue from Google Play and compare it to iTunes/App Store. iOS had 600 million devices as of this summer. Android had 900 million at the same time (they just announced they passed 1 billion). Yet the App Store rakes in between 2.3-2.6x the revenue that Google Play does despite having only 2/3rd the number of users. Adjusted for the number of users and the App Store makes about 3.5-3.9x as much as Google Play. For digital content like music and movies it's much worse. Apple makes about 6X (not a typo) the revenue as Google does. Adjusted for users and it's actually 9X the revenue. All those Android users and yet they're not being monetized.

I doubt an iPhone user buys 4X more Apps or 9X more music than a GS4 user would. Anyone who buys a high-end smartphone is going to want to use it as much as they can, and that means spending money on Apps. I think the only reason the numbers are so low is that for every GS4 sold there's 5 low-end phones sold to users who do nothing with their devices. I think this is also why Samsung is trying so hard to get developers to write Apps specifically for their Galaxy phones instead of writing generic Android Apps. They've got some great new hardware with fast processors and high-res displays yet they're stuck running Apps written to the lowest common denominator in terms of devices and API's. Tough to show off your newest smartphone when there aren't any Apps that can really take advantage of the hardware capabilities.
Regarding iOS 7: GOOD. I really hope I have no complaints.

Regarding white box android devices sold in places like India, Sri Lanka, Africa, etc. well it's an open source OS, they can do so if they wish. The people buying these are choosing between those and cheap Nokia or Samsung dumbphones. They aren't going to buy an iPhone anyway, or a "branded" Android.

The ones in the middle are killing it. Those $200 (true price, not hidden in a 2 year contract) devices make up a huge amount of sales all over the world. Until she adopted my hand me down HTC, that's all my wife ever used.

The fact that apple is coming out with their own low end 5C for the first time indicates that they think there's something to this, too. That's just a rumour for now though, guess well find out next week.

[BBMme]

And now there are talks about acquiring BlackBerry.
Posted via RS Mobile

[StylinRed]

I knew one guy that used a windows mobile device.
Unfortunately I could never test it out because it constantly rebooted itself

Is Windows phone more popular in other parts of the world because I've never met one person that's used one
Posted via RS Mobile

My last 3 phones were Android, iOS and Windows Mobile and I prefer both iOS and Windows over Android.


Just to be very clear Windows Mobile ≠ Windows Phone they're completely different

Windows Mobile on the Left and Windows Phone on the Right
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nvLUHlAjPHQ/UKg7SYZttlI/AAAAAAAAD6M/-YxiissB86g/s1600/winmo-wp.jpg


As for popularity Windows Phone is gaining ground in some eastern european countries and south america they're even ahead of Apple in many of those areas but that's only because its the low-end/mid-tier Lumia devices which are catching sales and the Iphone is too expensive

In terms of Windows Phone sales globally they sold 7million phones last quarter that's still about half the number that Nokia Symbian phones were selling at when they announced the death of Symbian so go figure, but sales are increasing thanks to the budget devices/nokia name not sure if that will continue now as Microsoft doesnt have the Nokia name and only "lumia" and "asha" and Ballmer has said they'll be coming up with a new name for their devices a "shorter name" http://mynokiablog.com/2013/09/03/ballmer-announces-shorter-naming-scheme-for-nokia-lumias/



Oh and to add icing to the cake Stephen Elop was already on a short list for the next Microsoft CEO after this sale his names moved to the top of the list (in terms of speculation anyway)

[dangonay]

^ I think Nokia will place a strong 3rd behind Android and iOS. Blackberry is the one I think that will hurt the most from this deal. We don't need half a dozen mobile operating systems and my money is on Nokia/MS before Blackberry (too bad since I have friends who work there).

interesting thing is with china is that over 90% of mobile devices being sold today are running Android. like Dangonay brought up, (im not sure of the percentage on this one) but %X of these devices come bundled with a Chinese market place for apps rather than Google Play

The fact that Androids VP Hugo Barra just left Google for Xiaomi last week sure adds fuel to the fire. Who better to help Xiaomi bring a custom version of Android to the Chinese market (perhaps a forked version) than a former VP of Android from Google?

[StylinRed]

stumbled on this thought it was interesting considering it's not exactly old (2007)

http://www.hrneurope.com/wp-content/uploads/Nokia-CEO-HRN-Europe.jpg

same year first iphone appeared and the n95

[dangonay]

^ One billion would be more impressive if they were smartphones and not those $49 candy bar phones they sold in droves.

[twitchyzero]

Nokia was considering Android for plan B prior to the MS buyout
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/behind-microsoft-deal-the-specter-of-a-nokia-android-phone/?smid=tw-nytimesbits&seid=auto&_r=3&

[willystyle]

^At the time, I thought that Nokia could really give Samsung a run for the money, if they chose Android over Windows Phone. Too late now.

[StylinRed]

Nokia was considering Android for plan B prior to the MS buyout
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/behind-microsoft-deal-the-specter-of-a-nokia-android-phone/?smid=tw-nytimesbits&seid=auto&_r=3&

Old news to nokia fans, there were actually leaks from insiders back then showing android installed on nokia devices but people thought they were fake there was also information leaked conveying that Nokia was considering Android but it didn't fit in with their device designs etc (which is complete bullshit since android is basically symbian&maemo)

all that android business changed though once Stephen Elop became CEO his goal from the start (as he recently admitted) was to get WP on all Nok phones

anyway I was a major fan of Nok and symbian (as many of you know) but I would have loved to have had Android on Nokia devices if they were set on killing off Symbian because Android so closely matched Symbian and especially Maemo so it would make adoption almost seamless especially since Nokia could skin android

:okay:

Anyway now its just the waiting game for Nok stock to plateau, sell everything off and then wait for a suitable Android phone and then im done with Nokia :/
I was hoping Honami would be it but prototype camera samples suck

[bcrdukes]

Re: Maemo/MeeGo

I was hoping Nokia would hold on to Maemo/MeeGo a little longer than to put it on the back burner (or sold off.) I have yet to have a bad experience with this OS on the Nokia N9. Stable, fast and isn't bloated with garbage.

[willystyle]

Anyone actually like Windows Phone?

I've gotten a chance to play with it on many occasions, but I just can't seem to find the Metro UI appealing at all.

[mos_skeeto]

I love it. In some ways I like it more than iOS. It's fast and slick.

I had one for a few months and what I thought was killing it was application support. Some apps are unavailable. When they are, I found that even ported apps don't have the same features or get regular updates like its android or iOS couterpart.

It's been a while since I used a Win Phone. Hopefully it's better now with developer intensive to develop for RT and Win 8.

[bcrdukes]

Never been a huge fan of apps in general (prefer functionality such as phone calls, SMS, email) but I like Windows Phone overall in comparison to say iOS.

[Traum]

Anyone actually like Windows Phone?

I've gotten a chance to play with it on many occasions, but I just can't seem to find the Metro UI appealing at all.
The Metro UI may not work well on a PC, or even a laptop with a touch screen, but on a phone, the interface actually works quite well. The built in first party apps have a pretty snappy response. It's just that aesthetically, it isn't as pretty and we are too used to the iOS / Android v4+ interface.

But mos_skeeto has it spot on -- it's the apps ecosystem (or rather, the lack of a one) that is killing the platform.

[yray]

I love it... Wp 7.0 all the way to 8.0

I think I was one of the first to have wp7.0 :lawl:

Not gonna lie. Never ever did I think that sentence would be typed.

Zune was decent for wp7.5 for loading music into it (wifi loading was awesome) and backing up. Better than the xbox music crap they have for wp8, can't control songs in comp with a UI, have to do things through windows explorer. Back up through skydrive :fuckthatshit:

[SkinnyPupp]

I actually would love to try Windows 8 for a while... But how can I say no the the Nexus 4? Nothing comes close to being such a good deal

[dangonay]

^ It is a great deal, which is what loss leaders usually are.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Bonka]

Anyone actually like Windows Phone?

I've gotten a chance to play with it on many occasions, but I just can't seem to find the Metro UI appealing at all.

I love it. In some ways I like it more than iOS. It's fast and slick.

I had one for a few months and what I thought was killing it was application support. Some apps are unavailable. When they are, I found that even ported apps don't have the same features or get regular updates like its android or iOS couterpart.

It's been a while since I used a Win Phone. Hopefully it's better now with developer intensive to develop for RT and Win 8.

I'm using W8 and find it is great to use for my purposes (email, calls, text, office). I love the out of the box fluidity of the UI and personally like the LiveTiles feature. Perhaps it's because I'm not much of an App guy either but it does have all the apps I use (Netflix, YT, RSS, TuneIn).

The OS is rather unpolished; headings and titles do not re-size and run off the screen due to their use of oversized fonts and having to back out of programs to shut them down. Several built-in programs almost seem like an afterthought a la the horrible music/video player linked through Xbox and the calendar where the month view shows appointments in Latin.

[dasani604]

I'm using W8 and find it is great to use for my purposes (email, calls, text, office). I love the out of the box fluidity of the UI and personally like the LiveTiles feature. Perhaps it's because I'm not much of an App guy either but it does have all the apps I use (Netflix, YT, RSS, TuneIn).

The OS is rather unpolished; headings and titles do not re-size and run off the screen due to their use of oversized fonts and having to back out of programs to shut them down. Several built-in programs almost seem like an afterthought a la the horrible music/video player linked through Xbox and the calendar where the month view shows appointments in Latin.

I have a W8 phone as well. Same thoughts, for my usage it's fine. Using a Nokia, the camera is awesome for a phone. The lack of apps is usually not a daily concern but when it is, I would wish I had an iPhone (due to most apps being produced for iOS).

Prior to the Microsoft acquisition, Nokia was extremely fast with updates and pushed them at least on a monthly basis (for their apps). Looking at Microsoft's past history with update speeds, a strong consensus amongst those in the Windows Phone community is that updates and new features will be much slower.

[bcrdukes]

^
While I don't use a WP8 phone, I felt that updates for my Nokia N9 and E71 (prior to Microsoft's takeover) they were on the ball when it came to bugs/fixes/patches etc. But when Microsoft took over, they fizzled off.

[StylinRed]

Nokia has been pushing msft to come out with updates but msft is really lagging to the point that nokia released their own fw patch called Amber recently to add some updates and fix some bugs

but now that msft is taking over i expect pace to drop back down to msfts level which isn't going to release windows phone 8.# until next year


as for Windows Phone, I hate it it looks ugggggggglly to me if they gave users more ability to customize the tile colours or transparencies even that would be a huge welcome but nope -_-
wallpapers even if it were windows 8 start screen like wallpapers that would be very much welcomed


in fact a supposed former ex-nokia employee vented about how he hates WindowsPhones UI/UX on reddit recently (its getting quite a few headlines)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1mc4vq/nokia_was_testing_android_on_lumias_before/cc7xhs0?context=3



the paragraph i relate with is quoted below

Thirdly (and this is my favorite pet peeve): the WP design language is directly opposite to Gestalt rules. The UI should use color, weight and visual cues to guide the eye and to assert a visual hierarchy. You need to be able to form an overview and the location of the most critical functions of the phone with a quick glance. This is usually done using color, continuity, contrast, focal points etc. WP disregards all of this. If you look at the live tiles, there are useless animations, complete disregard of visual cues and the focal points are all over the place. Why is the Red Bull app colored, thus stealing my attention, while the more important phone and message icons are not? Why is the Xbox Live tile green by default, making it the only one to stand out? Is the UI suggesting it’s really the most vital app of my phone? Why are the tiles moving without input, making it exceptionally difficult to form an overview of what I’m seeing? Why are my eyes being constantly guided to non-essential parts of the UI? Thanks to these things, the UI is crowded and it’s difficult to form a visual hierarchy of what I’m seeing. In most cases there’s also no distinction between call to action elements and plain text, making guiding the user through visual cues difficult.

[SkinnyPupp]

^ It is a great deal, which is what loss leaders usually are.
Posted via RS Mobile
I know, it's great when the manufacturers do things that are good for consumers, isn't it

[dangonay]

^ If you believe Google is selling the Nexus 4 at a cheap price because it cares about consumers then I've got a bridge for sale you might like.

The low price of the Nexus 4 is unsustainable. This is why there are always limited quantities available and quick sell outs. So it's good for "some" consumers who were lucky enough to snag one but it's not good for all consumers as Google would never produce enough to make it a mainstream device.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dasani604]

Nokia has been pushing msft to come out with updates but msft is really lagging to the point that nokia released their own fw patch called Amber recently to add some updates and fix some bugs

but now that msft is taking over i expect pace to drop back down to msfts level which isn't going to release windows phone 8.# until next year


as for Windows Phone, I hate it it looks ugggggggglly to me if they gave users more ability to customize the tile colours or transparencies even that would be a huge welcome but nope -_-
wallpapers even if it were windows 8 start screen like wallpapers that would be very much welcomed


in fact a supposed former ex-nokia employee vented about how he hates WindowsPhones UI/UX on reddit recently (its getting quite a few headlines)

slaizer comments on Nokia was testing Android on Lumias before Microsoft sale (http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/1mc4vq/nokia_was_testing_android_on_lumias_before/cc7xhs0?context=3)



the paragraph i relate with is quoted below
I think it's fine in term of pretty/ugly appeal, but I may be biased since I favour the live tiles for my photo album/contacts. Everything else I could care less.

What he says about UI/UX, I agree. It's cumbersome to scroll down and extremely annoying to switch wifi/bluetooth on/off; although, I know you can download battery apps which have options to act as shortcuts. Folders would be very useful too.

^ If you believe Google is selling the Nexus 4 at a cheap price because it cares about consumers then I've got a bridge for sale you might like.

The low price of the Nexus 4 is unsustainable. This is why there are always limited quantities available and quick sell outs. So it's good for "some" consumers who were lucky enough to snag one but it's not good for all consumers as Google would never produce enough to make it a mainstream device.
Posted via RS Mobile

Limited quantities available and quick sell-outs usually occur when they're first released or when they want to end the product. Correct me if I'm wrong, but last Christmas was perfectly fine. Other than those periods, I have not heard news or seen the Nexus 4 being sold out.

I do agree with you on it never being a mainstream device. It's a great bargain but it's just not everybody's ideal phone. Samsung Note x/Samsung Galaxy Sx have been stealing the thunder away from Nexus phones despite their higher prices. Credit is due to their marketing vs. the non-existent marketing of Google. However, I'm assuming the sales of the Nexus phones aren't a big concern for Google.

[R5x]

^ If you believe Google is selling the Nexus 4 at a cheap price because it cares about consumers then I've got a bridge for sale you might like.

The low price of the Nexus 4 is unsustainable. This is why there are always limited quantities available and quick sell outs. So it's good for "some" consumers who were lucky enough to snag one but it's not good for all consumers as Google would never produce enough to make it a mainstream device.
Posted via RS Mobile

The Nexus 4 stock situation was terrible at launch but was resolved by February (3 months after launch). Your statement is kind of overblown as there was not always limited availabilities and quick sellouts. It was never intended as a mainstream device and Google knew this. As far as the lucky consumers that snagged one, it was incredibly easy after the initial problems if a consumer was patient enough.

I know you're an iOS developer so your biases and preferences are well known, but objectively I'm just wondering if you've ever used an Android or Windows Phone product from a consumer point of view as an actual "daily driver"; especially a Nexus 4-level product and up for Android. The actual experience has been great for me coming from an iOS device and same with people I know. From my small sample size of friends, I haven't really had any that switched from iOS to Android then complained about a specific app that they MUST have that was on iOS and not on Android which forced them to switch back to an iPhone. They were always either ported (eventually) or an alternative exists.

It just sounds like the majority of your arguments against Android are aimed from a developer's point of view (which as I understand it from your posts, the Android development is inferior to iOS). I know I would totally try a Windows Phone for my next phone if the OS were improved and apps were available. Just wondering if objectively you would too?

[SkinnyPupp]

^ If you believe Google is selling the Nexus 4 at a cheap price because it cares about consumers then I've got a bridge for sale you might like.

The low price of the Nexus 4 is unsustainable. This is why there are always limited quantities available and quick sell outs. So it's good for "some" consumers who were lucky enough to snag one but it's not good for all consumers as Google would never produce enough to make it a mainstream device.
Posted via RS Mobile

It doesn't matter WHY they are doing it. It is still good for consumers, which is all I said. All that matters to me is that I can get a phone with good specifications for $250 brand new. I don't have to wait in line or put a down payment or anything. I don't have to sign an idiotic contract. I just go to google.com/nexus4 and order one, and it is shipped within a week.

[dangonay]

The Nexus 4 stock situation was terrible at launch but was resolved by February (3 months after launch). Your statement is kind of overblown as there was not always limited availabilities and quick sellouts. It was never intended as a mainstream device and Google knew this. As far as the lucky consumers that snagged one, it was incredibly easy after the initial problems if a consumer was patient enough.

I know you're an iOS developer so your biases and preferences are well known, but objectively I'm just wondering if you've ever used an Android or Windows Phone product from a consumer point of view as an actual "daily driver"; especially a Nexus 4-level product and up for Android. The actual experience has been great for me coming from an iOS device and same with people I know. From my small sample size of friends, I haven't really had any that switched from iOS to Android then complained about a specific app that they MUST have that was on iOS and not on Android which forced them to switch back to an iPhone. They were always either ported (eventually) or an alternative exists.

It just sounds like the majority of your arguments against Android are aimed from a developer's point of view (which as I understand it from your posts, the Android development is inferior to iOS). I know I would totally try a Windows Phone for my next phone if the OS were improved and apps were available. Just wondering if objectively you would too?
I develop for Android and iOS. Less so for Android recently but I still keep up to date with the latest SDK and changes. BTW, I have never stated developing for iOS was superior to Android - in fact they both have their good and bad points from a developers POV (which I have gone into before, but nobody on RS seems interested in actually getting into this technical of a discussion).

The Nexus 4 is dirt cheap compared to an iPhone, HTC One or GS4. Not because Google has convinced suppliers to sell them parts at half price. Not because Google has invented new production techniques that allow them to make the Nexus 4 for less than other phone manufacturers. They priced it low so that a) developers to get a new device with the latest version of Android and b) to use as a marketing technique.

The people who got one should be happy they were able to get a phone for such a low price. They should also realize why it's priced so low.

[SkinnyPupp]

The people who got one should be happy they were able to get a phone
You make it sound like this is hard to do... It's not. Aside from an initial shortage (which is the same with any popular device) they have been readily available for anyone to order, until they stopped the 8GB a couple weeks ago.

They should also realize why it's priced so low.
Who cares? All that matters is they got a good phone for a good price, without giving up anything in return.

It's like pointing out Samsung using a reference ARMv8 design rather than custom.. to the customer it doesn't matter. You are just fishing (REALLY deep this time) for some reason to be angry at an Apple competitor.

I always said that I never hated Apple (or any other manufacturer - I don't care) but the Apple fans.. you are the perfect example. Actually moreso, because you DO know better. Yet you keep trying to disparage any Apple competitor to the point where it gets silly

[370z370z]

Windows Phone are actually pretty good.
lack of app yes. But WP8 is essentially their G1 product. I remember Andriod sucks too in 1.0

[!LittleDragon]

My next phone's going to be a Lumia 1020. Kinda grew up over the years, now I don't care about the OS, number of apps, specs, etc. I look at my S3, iPhone and Z10, there's maybe less than 10 apps I actually use. Everything else is for bragging.

I'm happy as long as it can make calls, send texts, get emails, youtube and navigate. The 1020's camera is one feature that actually makes it stand out from all the other phones. Could care less what OS it ran.

[StylinRed]

then you should buy the 808 pureview instead :) its got the better camera and its cheaper than the 1020 ;)

the 1020 will be available through Rogers on Oct 3rd btw

[!LittleDragon]

I thought about the 808 a while back but the OS is defunct, the screen res isn't up to today's standards, etc. For what it is, I was waiting for it to drop to the $200 price range but Nokia dropped a Pureview with a modern OS. Sure it costs more, oh well... company's paying for it anyways...

[dangonay]

You make it sound like this is hard to do... It's not. Aside from an initial shortage (which is the same with any popular device) they have been readily available for anyone to order, until they stopped the 8GB a couple weeks ago.

Who cares? All that matters is they got a good phone for a good price, without giving up anything in return.

It's like pointing out Samsung using a reference ARMv8 design rather than custom.. to the customer it doesn't matter. You are just fishing (REALLY deep this time) for some reason to be angry at an Apple competitor.

I always said that I never hated Apple (or any other manufacturer - I don't care) but the Apple fans.. you are the perfect example. Actually moreso, because you DO know better. Yet you keep trying to disparage any Apple competitor to the point where it gets silly

To paraphrase another poster on RS...

My mop is not big enough for all this hypocrisy.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Gt-R R34]

My next phone's going to be a Lumia 1020. Kinda grew up over the years, now I don't care about the OS, number of apps, specs, etc. I look at my S3, iPhone and Z10, there's maybe less than 10 apps I actually use. Everything else is for bragging.

I'm happy as long as it can make calls, send texts, get emails, youtube and navigate. The 1020's camera is one feature that actually makes it stand out from all the other phones. Could care less what OS it ran.

I'm pretty similar now...only thing is battery life is important as well

[yray]

^nokia... battery life :fuckthatshit:

lets hope warranty gives me a new battery this time around

[bcrdukes]

Sorry to bump an old thread / wrong thread (whatever)

But...have any of you upgraded from the Lumia 920 to the new 1020? If so, yay or nay?