[Great68]

"A B.C. Supreme Court justice has turned down an application by the government to seize the motorcycle of a man clocked at more than three times the speed limit.

The decision is being lauded by the man’s lawyer, who said it could have been used as a precedent for the government to seize property for the simple act of speeding.

Jason Alan Dery was clocked driving his Ducati motorcycle at more than 200 kilometres an hour in a 60 km/h zone on July 2, 2011, while on Willis Point Road.

The director of civil forfeiture took Dery to court in an attempt to seize the bike, valued by the government at between $7,400 and $12,200.

B.C. Supreme Court Justice Gregory Bowden said in a ruling posted online Friday that he was unaware of any other reported decisions of a court in B.C. or another province that considered seizing such property for a motor-vehicle offence.

The majority of the cases cited by counsel were against property used for the cultivation of marijuana, he noted.

Bowden said while he does not condone Dery’s behaviour, the government didn’t prove the defendant’s actions amounted to dangerous driving under the Criminal Code or did it prove the bike was an “instrument of unlawful activity” under the Civil Forfeiture Act.

Barclay Johnson, Dery’s lawyer, called the proceedings a “test case,” and said a victory for the government would have set an important precedent for the Crown.

“This would have been the first case in British Columbia that would have given a green light to civil forfeiture proceedings for simple speeding,” he said, adding the Crown rolled the dice and lost.

Johnson questioned using civil forfeiture laws to go after speeders when a mechanism exists through ICBC to deal with the issue. He said the focus should remain on the driver and not his property.

He said if somebody breaks a speeding law, the person should have to pay a fine, and if the offence is bad enough, their licence should be taken away, and in the most severe cases a driver should face a lifetime ban.

“There’s a pretty severe system of penalties already in existence that deal with road offences,” he said.

The Ministry of Justice declined to comment because there’s a 30-day appeal period, adding in an email that a final decision on an appeal will be made in the coming weeks.

Bowden said the defendant’s “uncontradicted” evidence for the July 2, 2011, event was that the road was long and straight, the weather was sunny and clear with good visibility, its surface was dry and there were no other vehicles on the road or in sight.

He said there were no pedestrians on the road or in sight, and the Ducati was in perfect working condition and its brakes and tires had recently been replaced.

Dery has committed 39 motor-vehicle offences and received five 24-hour driving prohibitions since 1990 and paid fines, victim-surcharge levies and driver-penalty points totalling $3,600, Bowden said.

Sgt. Steve Eassie of the Saanich Police Department said the director of civil forfeitures didn’t provide enough information for a decision to be rendered in the prosecution’s favour.

He said Willis Point Road attracts people who like to “test out their vehicles,” because it is long and straight, but the speed limit is 60 km/h.” Police will continue to enforce that limit."

So happy the civil forfeiture pigfuckers lost this, would have been a dangerous precedent. Three cheers for Justice Bowden!

[604STIG]

The first time a judge allows a forfeiture of assets due to speeding it's all going down hill from there. Glad this judge had some sense, unlike some of them. This is the situation we were all fearing when they introduced the civil forfeiture laws.

[trollguy]

wow, guy sure has quite the record.. lol

Dery has committed 39 motor-vehicle offences and received five 24-hour driving prohibitions since 1990 and paid fines, victim-surcharge levies and driver-penalty points totalling $3,600, Bowden said.


definitely glad of the outcome though.

[Soundy]

3-4 times the limit is "simple speeding"? :okay:

[Spidey]

Dery has committed 39 motor-vehicle offences and received five 24-hour driving prohibitions since 1990 and paid fines, victim-surcharge levies and driver-penalty points totalling $3,600, Bowden said.


Why is this guy even allowed to have a DL

[Gridlock]

The first time a judge allows a forfeiture of assets due to speeding it's all going down hill from there. Glad this judge had some sense, unlike some of them. This is the situation we were all fearing when they introduced the civil forfeiture laws.

IE. this is a lot of power granted TO the government BY the same government?

Scary shit.

I find it can even be scary to use in in its original intention. Obviously, I get that we're trying to keep gangsters from driving to court cases about their criminal dealings in their hummers that they bought with their criminal dealings. But just as you said, its that slippery slope that we're even trying a case like this for speeding in the first place.

That to me says that the law was written with few limitations, and that says to me its a poor law. Passed, silently and quickly, in Canadian style with a majority government with minimal debate.

[dink]

Practicing for Isle of Man TT

[Soundy]

Why is this guy even allowed to have a DL

Like NOT having one is going to stop him? Idiots like this will just continue to ride/drive under suspension/prohibition.

[Phil@rise]

To me the shows the true intentions of our government. The fact they thought they could try this and win implies they want to be able to govern us with such heavy handed authority and that is far from any semblance of freedom.

[Gridlock]

To me the shows the true intentions of our government. The fact they thought they could try this and win implies they want to be able to govern us with such heavy handed authority and that is far from any semblance of freedom.

Here are the rules to crime in Canada:

If you are a native and you're sorry, let him go
If you raped a girl, you didn't mean it, she's a ho
If you are an addict, give him money, 'cause he's po
If you're speeding really fast, all your belongings gotta go

[Phil@rise]

todays lesson in poetry by........GRIDLOCK!!!!!! yaaaaaayyyy!!!

[Gridlock]

todays lesson in poetry by........GRIDLOCK!!!!!! yaaaaaayyyy!!!

Many things can be said about me, but one of them is not a lack of effort in my posts.

[Traum]

I agree with the courts denying the government of the forfeiture. At the same time, what do you suppose could be done to prevent this guy from behind a hazard to the community?

[Spidey]

Like NOT having one is going to stop him? Idiots like this will just continue to ride/drive under suspension/prohibition.

at least he will be driving while prohib, and when he does get caught it will keep adding to his record, possibly criminally, instead of meaningless pts to his driving record.

[Soundy]

I agree with the courts denying the government of the forfeiture. At the same time, what do you suppose could be done to prevent this guy from behind a hazard to the community?

Well this is the thing: there are instances where people simply flip off the law, the government, and most importantly, all the rest of society... this guy is out there doing whatever the fuck he wants with zero concern or regard for the safety of anyone else. The law doesn't provide for putting him in a hole and throwing away the key, and it doesn't provide for any more than temporarily depriving him of his weapon of not-giving-a-fuck.

It DOES *theoretically* provide for PERMANENTLY depriving him of his transport, which if not stopping this behaviour, will at least slow him down for a while. Unfortunately, while applying civil forfeiture in most cases may be extreme... in this case, I don't think it would have been. This person's record shows he's someone who should be limited to the heel-toe express for the rest of his natural life.

[Soundy]

at least he will be driving while prohib, and when he does get caught it will keep adding to his record, possibly criminally, instead of meaningless pts to his driving record.

And will still make no difference, if his past record is any indication. Would be interesting to actually see his entire record; I'd be surprised if there isn't already at least one DWP charge on there.

[Spidey]

And will still make no difference, if his past record is any indication. Would be interesting to actually see his entire record; I'd be surprised if there isn't already at least one DWP charge on there.

Unless you lock him up in jail, there is really no way to prevent him from driving.....

[Soundy]

Unless you lock him up in jail, there is really no way to prevent him from driving.....

And unfortunately, Canadian law doesn't provide for that.

[Spidey]

And unfortunately, Canadian law doesn't provide for that.

nope.

[Soundy]

Heaven forbid he plows into a schoolbus and kills a dozen kids or something, the law STILL doesn't support putting him away for any substantial length of time.

[Vale46Rossi]

Great news!

[Iceman-19]

Fuck the police and fuck the government. If people are blind to see what they are doing to us, eventually we are going to have zero liberties left.

[Soundy]

Fuck the police and fuck the government. If people are blind to see what they are doing to us, eventually we are going to have zero liberties left.
If self-absorbed assholes who think the rules don't apply to them weren't constantly TAKING liberties with society's wishes, heavy-handed rules wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

You want to blame someone, blame the few rotten apples who seem to revel in ruining things for everyone else.

[Rainei]

Dery has committed 39 motor-vehicle offences and received five 24-hour driving prohibitions since 1990 and paid fines, victim-surcharge levies and driver-penalty points totalling $3,600, Bowden said

$3600??? That is a ridiculously low number if you think about it. One excessive speeding ticket nowadays costs $483? The DRP is $320 for 3 years, so thats $960. One single excessive speeding ticket would cost him $1443. So how is the remaining $2200 split among the 38 other driving offenese and 5 suspensions?

Heaven forbid he plows into a schoolbus and kills a dozen kids or something, the law STILL doesn't support putting him away for any substantial length of time.

And lol. Someone think of the kidss!! He must be travelling at the speed of light or something haha

[Soundy]

And lol. Someone think of the kidss!! He must be travelling at the speed of light or something haha
Tell ya what, go learn something about Grade 9 physics before speaking again. Here's a formula for you to start with: F=ma

[JesseBlue]

i thought this was a perfect case for forfeiture..

[Rainei]

If you're thinking of those big yellow school buses.. I don't think a 300kg mass would do much damage..... Unless it gets ramped up 1.5 m off the surface of the road.

I wonder how many kids he could kill going 300km/h into the side of a bus.

[Phil@rise]

"Bowden said the defendant’s “uncontradicted” evidence for the July 2, 2011, event was that the road was long and straight, the weather was sunny and clear with good visibility, its surface was dry and there were no other vehicles on the road or in sight.

He said there were no pedestrians on the road or in sight, and the Ducati was in perfect working condition and its brakes and tires had recently been replaced."


Did you guys read that? Some of you it seems would love to live in a police state with a totalitarian leader or regime governing over us.
He didnt endanger anyone but himself. Let evolution weed out the stupid or week theres no need to give up liberties or freedoms and put in place laws that limit all of us. Unless of course your happy sheep?
I for one would like to know I can stray away from the comfort of my herd and not be banished or be stripped of my piece of the pasture for doing so.
We live in a free country people if you dont like that so be it, move south.

[falcon]

I agree with the courts denying the government of the forfeiture. At the same time, what do you suppose could be done to prevent this guy from behind a hazard to the community?

Income based speeding tickets, that are enforced by Revenue Canada so you can't get away from them.

[Phil@rise]

Income based speeding tickets, that are enforced by Revenue Canada so you can't get away from them.

Ohhh thats a great idea lets give the government more reach into our pockets lol

[vitaminG]

i think the main thing is that he wasnt charged with dangerous driving which is a criminal code conviction, he was charged with speeding which is the BC motor vehicle act.

if he was criminally charged they might have had a case, its a slippery slope if they try to use civil forfeiture in motor vehicle act violations.

but he just got saddled with thousands of dollars in lawyer fees. so he'll probably have to sell his bike anyways

[Soundy]

If you're thinking of those big yellow school buses.. I don't think a 300kg mass would do much damage..... Unless it gets ramped up 1.5 m off the surface of the road.
You wouldn't think a little 3oz. piece of lead could rip a massive hole in something soft, either, but it does. F=ma. Look it up.

He said there were no pedestrians on the road or in sight, and the Ducati was in perfect working condition and its brakes and tires had recently been replaced."

...

He didnt endanger anyone but himself.
Should I post those bike-hits-deer videos again? Remember the ones where the deer appears out of nowhere and the rider has no time to react at HALF the speed this clown was going?

At those speeds, he's endangering ANYONE else using the road in his vicinity. At 200km/h, he's covering 56m/s... over 180ft PER SECOND. Car pulls onto the road off the shoulder, or from a side road... that car is toast as well. F=ma. Even if he does see it, he doesn't have time to react, let alone stop in time, unless he sacrifices himself by swerving into the ditch.

Whether you 'get' the physics of it or not, the fact remains, he wasn't thinking of anything else except himself, something that's borne by the sheer number of his previous convictions.

Let evolution weed out the stupid or week theres no need to give up liberties or freedoms and put in place laws that limit all of us. Unless of course your happy sheep?
Now you're starting to sound like CiC. Wanting to be able to use the roads safely without having to worry about some brainless asshole on a bike does not make one a "sheep".

I for one would like to know I can stray away from the comfort of my herd and not be banished or be stripped of my piece of the pasture for doing so.
You can "stray away from the comfort of the herd" on a track, where the herd is kept clear. On the streets, the herd would like to be able to go about their own lives without having to look over their shoulders.

[Mancini]

$3600??? That is a ridiculously low number if you think about it. One excessive speeding ticket nowadays costs $483? The DRP is $320 for 3 years, so thats $960. One single excessive speeding ticket would cost him $1443. So how is the remaining $2200 split among the 38 other driving offenese and 5 suspensions?

You forgot towing, impound costs, and travel costs to get home (these can be especially high if your car is impounded far from home).

[Marco911]

This is exactly how a justice system of checks and balances should work in the first place. It is insane that as a society we allow our politicians to write laws that strip an individual of their property rights for traffic offences which do not even rise to the level of a criminal offence. There are too many morons in society, like Soundy, who have no concept about the fundamental importance of private property rights. i've come out strongly against these civil forfeiture laws in the past, and I am pleased that the courts have sided with my opinion on this issue.

[Gridlock]

You wouldn't think a little 3oz. piece of lead could rip a massive hole in something soft, either, but it does. F=ma. Look it up.


Should I post those bike-hits-deer videos again? Remember the ones where the deer appears out of nowhere and the rider has no time to react at HALF the speed this clown was going?

At those speeds, he's endangering ANYONE else using the road in his vicinity. At 200km/h, he's covering 56m/s... over 180ft PER SECOND. Car pulls onto the road off the shoulder, or from a side road... that car is toast as well. F=ma. Even if he does see it, he doesn't have time to react, let alone stop in time, unless he sacrifices himself by swerving into the ditch.

Whether you 'get' the physics of it or not, the fact remains, he wasn't thinking of anything else except himself, something that's borne by the sheer number of his previous convictions.


Now you're starting to sound like CiC. Wanting to be able to use the roads safely without having to worry about some brainless asshole on a bike does not make one a "sheep".


You can "stray away from the comfort of the herd" on a track, where the herd is kept clear. On the streets, the herd would like to be able to go about their own lives without having to look over their shoulders.

Yes, you are arguing "won't someone think of the kittens" and phil is arguing "live free or die"

I don't think anyone thinks that this is a case of letting the guy go about his business free and clear because he decided that it was a safe road to let loose on.

What everyone IS saying is that he didn't hit 200kph in a shopping mall with school kids present. And we're all saying that for fuck sakes, we're not supposed to fear the government.

I don't like them having too much power.

It's why I dislike the road side drunk driving laws. People would turn that around and say, "so you support drunk driving?" and its a matter of no, but I support our system of laws.

Create a system where he can be charged with reckless endangerment and excess speeding. Great. Put financial penalties toward that. We can argue it, change it, waive it or whatever, but the same rules apply for everyone.

But to sit there and decide to go after his property...one of the base rights of our justice system, that of ownership, becomes punitive.

And that's where I redflag this shit.

These cases should be rare, and directly related to people profiting from crime.

If he bought the bike by selling kilos of coke to high school kids, then we'll talk about civil forfeiture, and hash that out in court, proving without a doubt that the money was illicit in nature.

[Phil@rise]

Wow! I've been likened to CiC.
Soundy thems fightin words lol!! But really you and many others like you seem all to cavalier with your freedoms all for the sake of "safety". In reality there is nothin more dangerous to us, then a government with too much power or authority. It doesnt take long till your left with nothing and for what? Some safety from a dude riding his MC down a desolate road with no one around to hear his screams as he crashes into an innocent dear except the cop hiding behind the bill board trying to rack up some cash giving out tickets.
More laws dont make the world a safer place. Thats a delusion. Smoke and mirrors, lies told to you by those that want control and power over you.
Thats not CiC thats real.

[meme405]

Tell ya what, go learn something about Grade 9 physics before speaking again. Here's a formula for you to start with: F=ma

the bike and him weigh a collective 400lbs at most.

even at 200 directly into the side of the bus, I guarantee the only fatality is himself. Sure the kids would get a shock, but he would plough almost entirely into the frame of the school bus. the actual seats and risk zone to the children is far to high up on the school bus for a motorcycle to harm anyone seriously.

EDIT:

Everytime this shit comes around, there is Soundy, on the side of "he was speeding, burn him at the cross", I really want to put a GPS on your car and see how often you are speeding.

Its easy to sit in your house and rant and rave on the internet about how speeding is dangerous, and anything could happen, but I bet once you hop in your car you are going 10 or 20 kmph (if not more) in many places.

The truth is, YES, ANYTHING could happen, fuck a ferret could pop out of the bushes and send him hurtling into a house, BUT IT DIDN'T, and now for the goverment to come along and seize his property for a law that has nothing to do with simple motor vehicle violations is an absolute breach of our civil liberties. im glad this got crushed, because it could have set a very dangerous precedent.

[Great68]

"Bowden said the defendant’s “uncontradicted” evidence for the July 2, 2011, event was that the road was long and straight, the weather was sunny and clear with good visibility, its surface was dry and there were no other vehicles on the road or in sight.

He said there were no pedestrians on the road or in sight, and the Ducati was in perfect working condition and its brakes and tires had recently been replaced."


Willis Point Road:

http://www3.telus.net/bryster/Willis.jpg

Better watch those kids jumping out of the woods.

[1BADMR2]

I am sooo happy that the courts decide the punishment and not the government.
Canada is a free country not a policed state (yet).

[Gridlock]

I am sooo happy that the courts decide the punishment and not the government.
Canada is a free country not a policed state (yet).

He still had to pay to defend himself against these bastards.

This is OUR government doing this. Now might be a time to let your elected representative know that this is bullshit.