[Gridlock]

Or: How a bunch of overpaid retards get to hold the government hostage over an obscure form of american law.

U.S. government shuts down as Congress can't agree on spending bill - CNN.com@@AMEPARAM@@video: 'bestoftv/2013/09/30/exp-erin-veterans-shutdown.cnn'@@AMEPARAM@@bestoftv/2013/09/30/exp-erin-veterans-shutdown.cnn

(CNN) -- The U.S. government shutdown went into effect at 12:01 a.m. ET Tuesday after lawmakers in the House and the Senate could not agree on a spending bill to fund the government.
The two sides bickered and blamed for more than a week over Obamacare, the president's signature health care law. House Republicans insisted the spending bill include anti-Obamacare amendments. Senate Democrats were just as insistent that it didn't.
Federal employees who are deemed essential will continue working. But non-essential employees will be furloughed.
Most furloughed federal workers are supposed to be out of their offices within four hours of the start of business Tuesday....cont'd

It's a game of brinkmanship to see who can do the most damage to each other, with(hopefully) doing as little damage to the country.

No one wins.

[kunoman1]

Jeez...
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/70190000/jpg/_70190400_us_government_shutdown_624.jpg

[dinosaur]

Guess nobody will be buying cheap gas tomorrow...

[Graeme S]

I really really hope that the backlash comes down hard on the Republicans so that 'murrica can move a little bit more progressive.

[xpl0sive]

Guess nobody will be buying cheap gas tomorrow...

why's that? Will border patrol be affected by this? I thought they were considered part of "National Security"

[kunoman1]

Border patrol is still operating as usual

[willystyle]

The U.S. government also needs to reform their political system. I find it absurd when a president of a nation gets held hostage like this when they are unable to pass a policy. At the end of the day, politicans get paid, and only their citizens lose. They should take a page out of our government and see how we operate up here. Harper may not be the most ideal PM, but at least, he can get most of his shit done.

[Gridlock]

The U.S. government also needs to reform their political system. I find it absurd when a president of a nation gets held hostage like this when they are unable to pass a policy. At the end of the day, politicans get paid, and only their citizens lose. They should take a page out of our government and see how we operate up here. Harper may not be the most ideal PM, but at least, he can get most of his shit done.

The checks and balances system is both the best form of government, and the worst.

It's great in that there are so many ways in which you can prevent things being passed that the majority of the population dislike.

On the flip side, it makes it easy for a vocal minority to log jam the system.

In Canada, yes Harper can get things done, but question period is for show and with a majority government and a do nothing senate system, there is very little anyone can do to oppose unpopular law-and as a result, our elections end up being a matter of voting the old guy out, as opposed to ever voting FOR someone.

[StylinRed]

not sure if it was noted but the politicians involved still get paid its just the little guy that gets screwed

[dinosaur]

why's that? Will border patrol be affected by this? I thought they were considered part of "National Security"

Border patrol is still operating as usual

Yeah, my bad. I read a poorly informed article that said the borders will not be open.

In realty, the borders will be open but with minimal staff. Expect delays (as much as a Tuesday goes).

[willystyle]

The checks and balances system is both the best form of government, and the worst.

It's great in that there are so many ways in which you can prevent things being passed that the majority of the population dislike.

On the flip side, it makes it easy for a vocal minority to log jam the system.

In Canada, yes Harper can get things done, but question period is for show and with a majority government and a do nothing senate system, there is very little anyone can do to oppose unpopular law-and as a result, our elections end up being a matter of voting the old guy out, as opposed to ever voting FOR someone.
Such as Obamacare?

I am FOR an abolish of the senate. They are overpaid, useless, and an economic drain to our political system.

[Redlines_Daily]

Here is a comprehensive list of what gets shut down if anyone is interested:

Government shutdown: What's closed, what's open? (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-impact/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

[kunoman1]

Here is a comprehensive list of what gets shut down if anyone is interested:

Government shutdown: What's closed, what's open? (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-impact/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

Thats like a million people who wont be working..

*edit not 2 million can't count

[4444]

No one wins.

Moral of story

[Gridlock]

Such as Obamacare?

I am FOR an abolish of the senate. They are overpaid, useless, and an economic drain to our political system.

:)

Yeah, I totally thought of that as I wrote it.

Each side has a slightly different version of those events-Democrats got it through fair and square of course. Republicans barely lost it to a loophole.

The supreme court has been through it, and it passed again.

They aren't talking to anyone outside their core! They can't connect with anyone a shade off of ghost white. Or women. Or young people. Robot-Romney was their choice...choice to run for president. And I think they will lose more people to this fight on health care(shitty law or not) then they will gain from the right wing tribe.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Last week CBC radio was discussing the partisanship in the US and had some guy talking about how various Republicans were presented with various policies and asked their opinion. They seemed to be against any policy linked to Obama, even if it was a Republican policy falsely relabled with Obama's name.

Everything in the US becomes political and divided down party lines even when it has nothing to do with politics.

A book on climate change I read a few years ago highlighted this point quite well. While scientific conclusions and fact are more readily accepted in the rest of the Western World, in the US it often comes down to politics as to how something is perceived. One strategy to effect climate change is tighter regulations on pollution. Well in the US, conservatives hear increased regulations and they immediately oppose it. But if you were to tell these same conservatives that the best strategy to effect climate change is to deregulate things like nuclear power, they are suddenly onboard for preventing climate change.

We are starting to see this political atmosphere creep into Canadian politics.
Harper is dead set on getting oil pipelines pushed through, promoting the tar sands, deregulating clean water protections, etc. For better or worse, this behaviour is well expected but his government is putting a muzzle on scientists attempting to publish their findings. Its a war on science and information.

Harper's party also pushed Canada towards a two party system like in the states by combining the two right wing parties. The Liberals and NDP might soon have no choice but to combine if they ever hope to win a majority government.

[threezero]

I hope this doesn't affect usual business at the airport. Boarding a plane coming from the states tonight....
Posted via RS Mobile

[Manic!]

This is going to be a long one. I am thinking a week plus.

[Lomac]

All this over "Obamacare."

:rolleyes:

So they're worried about the costs of this new healthcare and they want to trim some of the fat to pay for it? I've got a simple solution... It's estimated that it'll cost $136 billion per year, so take some of the money out of the Dept of Defense budget ($682 billion last year alone) and redirect it to that. Is military spending really that much more important than the well-being of your own citizens?

[CharlesInCharge]

Political analyst Gordon Duff calls its a punishment for the country for not going to war with Syria.
Israel lobby responsible for US shutdown: Gordon Duff - YouTube

Interesting thoughts by veteran Mike Harris on how government workers are not a wealth creating sector for America anyway... just consumers.
U.S. Government financial shutdown - YouTube

[Graeme S]

All this over "Obamacare."

:rolleyes:

So they're worried about the costs of this new healthcare and they want to trim some of the fat to pay for it? I've got a simple solution... It's estimated that it'll cost $136 billion per year, so take some of the money out of the Dept of Defense budget ($682 billion last year alone) and redirect it to that. Is military spending really that much more important than the well-being of your own citizens?
What good is insurance when the Nation is under attack? Do you want to be the one who strips our country's defences and gets us another 9/11? Why do you want to make government even bigger than it is now?! Don't you understand that government spending is the problem? Even if we take the money out of one place and put it in another, you're costing us jobs that we need, and wasting that money on jobs we don't!

[/republican]

[Lomac]

What good is insurance when the Nation is under attack? Do you want to be the one who strips our country's defences and gets us another 9/11? Why do you want to make government even bigger than it is now?! Don't you understand that government spending is the problem? Even if we take the money out of one place and put it in another, you're costing us jobs that we need, and wasting that money on jobs we don't!

[/republican]

lol

Oh, I know that would be exactly what they would say. Which is kinda sad, really.

How about this as food for thought... less military spending means fewer countries being "helped" with military aid... meaning fewer people having reason to hate you for invading without UN approval... meaning fewer chances of being attacked by "terrorists" or a foreign country. Stop playing into the 'Team America: World Police' mentality and you may suddenly realize the world becomes slightly more peaceful for you.

Just a thought.

[Ludepower]

I dont understand how the nation can come to a halt cause some cry baby kid (republican) wants their lollipop...especially when obamacare has been passed.

Theres a reason why Obama is on his second term. Let the man lead god dammit.

[EmperorIS]

George Bush doesn't care about black people.

[StylinRed]

surprised the USD rose against the CAD

[SpeedStars]

Just realized... You can "legally" smuggle a R34/R32 into the US now I guess :badpokerface:

[Ronin]

Jon Stewart Rips GOP Over Govt. Shutdown: Obamacare is the F*cking Law!! - September 30, 2013 - YouTube

[IMASA]

Great, my trip to the Grand Canyon next week is ruined.

[westopher]

Did they vote to fill in the grand canyon? Man shit is getting crazy.

[Lomac]

Jon Stewart Takes Down Fox News and 'Republican Morons' for Downplaying Shutdown - YouTube

[Soundy]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4030692/memes/obama%20calls%20a%20hit.jpg

[Soundy]

Hyundai Deferring Car Payments For U.S. Federal Employees During Gov?t Shutdown ? Consumerist (http://consumerist.com/2013/10/02/hyundai-deferring-car-payments-for-u-s-federal-employees-during-govt-shutdown/)

[Ronin]

Sen. Warren on Republicans' Shutdown Threats - YouTube

It's what everyone's thinking.

I hate that so many Republicans base their decisions on religion rather than logic and reason.

[dinosaur]

18711

[westopher]

LOL I saw that on God's facebook page yesterday. If you don't follow it on facebook I suggest you do. So funny.

[Gridlock]

It's not religion in and of itself. It's the conservative movement that has worked both extremely well, and extremely poorly in maintaining itself. That conservative movement contains a vocal religious component.

There is within their party a large group of hard right people. We all know this. They vote, and vote hard and will support the people they want to see win right through the system with rallies, money and voter turnout. The system itself has slowly but surely been changed to create easier victories in future elections. We're talking about republicans in charge of electoral boundaries for republicans. We're talking republicans in charge of laws for electoral mechanics for elections with republicans.

This has been enough to create a House where the republicans are guaranteed victory. You, at this time cannot shake them out of control.

So as a result, you have a system where they can now cater to the hard-right because they are the ones that they owe their election to. There are moderate republicans the same as there are moderate democrats. You don't hear from them. No one cares what they have to say. They don't need to shape their message for the general election, because its already set. They need to shape their message for the ultra conservatives to keep their support.

So, this is enough to lock the house. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be enough to lock anything else. The ultra conservatives can't come out in enough volume to gain senate or presidency. Romney was a dream boat candidate...if you are a hard core R, and they couldn't bring him home.

[urrh]

america doesn't negotiate with terrorists.
time to stamp out those house republicans

[Acura604]

...the next deadline:


Congress has until Oct. 17 before the Treasury exceeds its borrowing capacity, which means the U.S. will no longer be able to pay all its bills in full.

[murd0c]

Then China goes in and the US turns into the United States republic of China :troll:

[xpl0sive]

and then US businesses stop having everything made in China and China goes back to the dark ages

[Ronin]

Then China goes in and the US turns into the United States republic of China :troll:

"What happened to you, China? You used to be cool..."

[Gridlock]

Calling it now...I think they'll default the country.

I don't think they'd last long doing that, but I can't picture a scenario where the dems have anything to gain from negotiating and the pubs have anything to lose from going full retard.

The last time the dems negotiated a "peace agreement" they got the sequester(which like, wasn't that bad) but get held hostage again. So they can't keep being backed in a corner because now the republicans want more.

I think if they have the balls, they need to go all the way.

[tarobbt]

america doesn't negotiate with terrorists.
time to stamp out those house republicans

You might as well stamp out half the general populace too.

FBI calls half of populace with 9/11 doubts potential terrorists (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/358624#ixzz2gIIrHHVt)

Pretty much if do not agree with the American government you are a threat to national security and the FBI has deemed you a terrorist. Even Homeland Security labeled returning Iraq troops potential terrorists.

I think it's time for a new chapter in US history where the entire government needs reforming from up and down. Just a matter of time before US implodes imo. Too much BS at home and too much BS on the world stage.

[Spartacus]

Doesnt look like its going to get any better. What do you guys think will happen if the us defaults? Will this have a huge affect on the canadian economy? What about canadian housing prices?
Posted via RS Mobile

[dinosaur]

This shut down sucks and I hope it ends soon for personal reasons...

A friend lives down there and is in the middle of her visa process. While this is happening, she is not allowed to travel. Last week her father died unexpectedly and in order to come back to Canada, she need to apply for bereavement pass....which she can not get because the Gov't has shut down. It is frustrating.

[GLOW]

This shut down sucks and I hope it ends soon for personal reasons...

A friend lives down there and is in the middle of her visa process. While this is happening, she is not allowed to travel. Last week her father died unexpectedly and in order to come back to Canada, she need to apply for bereavement pass....which she can not get because the Gov't has shut down. It is frustrating.

can she fly to bellingham, rent a car, and drive across on a 'day' trip with her current gov issued documentation, and then drive back to bellingham and fly back to her home afterwards?

[dinosaur]

Unfortunately, it is not as easy as that. She needs to be here for an extended period of time (2+ weeks) to handle everything. She is one of only two family members he had.

Thankful that there is no rush, at least. Still sucks though.

[7seven]

This shut down sucks and I hope it ends soon for personal reasons...

A friend lives down there and is in the middle of her visa process. While this is happening, she is not allowed to travel. Last week her father died unexpectedly and in order to come back to Canada, she need to apply for bereavement pass....which she can not get because the Gov't has shut down. It is frustrating.

Is she not a Canadian or US citizen? She wouldn't require a visa to enter Canada. Or is she more concerned about being admitted back into the US since she is not a legal permanent US resident with a alien registration card or citizen?

[dinosaur]

She is Canadian and has been living (legally) in the US for several years.

She is currently applying for her work Visa (I don't know the exact details), but when the gov't is processing, you are not allowed to travel out of the country during that time. The process can take several months. She should be able to apply for some sort of special "pass" to allow her to travel back to Canada for extenuating circumstances but, of course, this requires a trip to government offices, evidence submitted, officials approving, etc....With those offices being closed, there isn't much she can do without compromising her current visa application.

As I said, dealing with the logistics of the death can be slowed (funeral, probate, etc), it is just a needless stress on top of an already difficult time.

[MG1]

Doesnt look like its going to get any better. What do you guys think will happen if the us defaults? Will this have a huge affect on the canadian economy? What about canadian housing prices?
Posted via RS Mobile

It's complicated, but exchange rate might start going in our favour. Once US economy tanks, it's going to take some time to fix it.

Once people lose confidence in US currency it's going to snowball and go downhill. I think we are safe here, but ya never know..........

[willystyle]

^ To add, if the US default, economists are speculating that this will be another 2008 economic recession, but worse.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ How will it affect our hosuing market then? Will it tank or will it go up?

[Recon604]

^^ How will it affect our hosuing market then? Will it tank or will it go up?

you wouldnt know....

[Gridlock]

This is going to be interesting to watch. We have the combination of a few factors in history all coming together right now to make for one hell of a show.

Shutdown 1995.

There are Republicans that are FURIOUS that the house backed down in the last shutdown. Remember this is the time that we had a democrat president, and a republican controlled house. This isn't the first time they've used their position to stalemate the government.

They actually went on to have a very successful time in America as a result. The republicans reigned in spending and Clinton had to focus on key initiatives.

Debt Ceiling 2011

The republicans got some pretty big points out of the last game of brinkmanship. Obama backed down. They played the card once and know that they can get what they want if they stand firm.

But now to try the same trick again, Obama may have to call them out on it.

And Obamacare

The stakes are too high. Obama cannot afford to look at all weak on Obamacare. It's been his signature piece of his presidency.

All of these line up to have too many people that have too much to risk to back down.

There are a large portion of the country that sees that anything goes in terms of eliminating Obamacare, and fully support the republicans in the cause. I don't see it as a majority of any kind. Even Boner himself is having to be the face of this thing and may not even fully support them.

They are singing hard that the president isn't willing to negotiate, and I don't think a lot of people are agreeing on it.

[Gridlock]

John Boehner HEATED Debate with George Stephanopoulos WILL NOT PASS CLEAN CR ABC #thisweek - YouTube

Makes me want to throat punch the guy.

I will agree with him on one thing, and that is the democrats seem to think that the Republican house should just go along with the administration, which really flies against the very premise of the American system. People didn't vote in a "democratish" house...they voted for republicans(when they could vote, and weren't black and gerrymandering didn't fuck up the process).

Honestly, you have to go from crisis to crisis to get things done, otherwise things wouldn't get done. Democrats will always spend more and tax more. Republicans will always spend less and tax less. There SHOULD be more of a system of cross negotiation to get things done, but there isn't, and there won't be until 2016. The democrats didn't come in to form the administration as feeling a need to coordinate with republicans, in fact he told them they could take the back seat.

That's great, but that isn't how American politics has EVER gone, and in 2010 they got the result.

Some of the republicans may be a bit moronic, but they aren't as a group, stupid.

And both sides right now are playing the waiting game to gain as much leverage over the other leading up to October 17th, which is why he keeps saying, "Obama knows where to call me". Meanwhile, the democrats are doing everything possible to make the shutdown affect the population and clear as many people out of offices as possible.

[falcon]

How many times can someone say "have a conversation.".....?

[falcon]

I agree with a lot of what he has to say about the budget and spending more than you have. I just dont agree with his tactics of holding obamacare hostage over it. If he really cared about his country he would negotiate.

[Bouncing Bettys]

This whole shutdown tactic was planned long ago. The democrats have done nothing but give in to republican budget demands and set a budget even lower than what even the most radical republicans initially demanded. The Democrats have been giant pussies time and time again and are doing a horrible counter job despite having tons of ammo and holding all the right cards. Its so frustrating.

[The7even]

I see a lot of people blaming the republicans here.

While I am not a republican - nor a democrat as of lately..
I have to say that both are at fault.

The reality is that the government is bought out.

Lobbying? That's just word for paying off..

I think one of the worst offenders is the Isreal Lobby. It's responsible for a lot of the issues the world has with the US foreign policy.
And that in it self is just the tip of the iceberg..
These analysts you see on TV that advocate the Syrian war for example, it was found out that they have a huge stake in the US going to war.

It's a nation that won't really last long. Maybe our life time , but I don't see a bigger future if things don't change.

[parm104]

I agree with a lot of what he has to say about the budget and spending more than you have. I just dont agree with his tactics of holding obamacare hostage over it. If he really cared about his country he would negotiate.

What's there to negotiate, a law? Then what is the point of having a Judiciary Branch of government?

It's a principle that has been established since the beginning of the Constitution, and for reason. It's to protect the people from unfair rule and this is essentially what's happening right now. This move is illegal, plain and simple, it can't be justified.

[Ronin]

How many times can someone say "have a conversation.".....?

Because everything American politicians say is canned. It's scripted...written by their speechwriters and then dimwits like Johnny Boner here repeats their buzzwords over and over while they say to themselves in their heads "Please don't let me say anything stupid..."

Look at Rick Perry. Look at...that Pizza dude...Herman Cain. They're morons with money that somehow lucked themselves into power and couldn't resist their natural moron tendencies and harpooned their own chances by opening their gob on their own in a brief moment where they forgot what they were spoonfed to say.

All Boner here is trying to do is put one idea in the heads of the American people: that this is Obama's fault because he won't have a conversation. No matter what question he's asked, he will make this point.

Why? Because that's American politics...because the vast majority of America is so stupid that they can only understand small snippets of information. Especially heavy Republican states. Playing Republican politics is like trying to teach a parrot to talk. You just repeat things over and over until the parrot says it themselves. All they are is a race to the bottom...catering to the lowest common denominator to get votes. They know their voter base doesn't understand the real issues so they try to make points on an emotional basis. It would probably surprise most Republicans that they actually support most of the policies in Obamacare...but hate Obama because he's black and they were told to.

Look at the speech patterns of any Republican, especially the Tea Party ones, and tell me I'm wrong.

[GS8]

Sadly, the real losers in all this are the citizens to take it up both ends by these almost self-elected rich, powertripping fucktards who only want to satisfy their own agenda. They want money and power and what better way to earn both than by participating in a large group who share the same goals.

And that is pretty much how governments work from my observations.

[Ferra]

ideologically...I actually support the republican (i.e. make your own money, limited social handout, support businesses...etc)

But nowadays, they all feels like a bunch of crooks, hypocrites, double standard selfish bastards who will lie and cheat to get their ways...

I think their supports are going down not because people hate the republican's ideology...people just hate the politicians (who lacks integrity and ethic) running it now

[Bouncing Bettys]

Best Letter Ever Sent to a Congressman - YouTube

[finbar]

The rethuglicans are butthurt after obamacare became law,
the supreme court OKed obamacare and BO got re-elected on obamacare.
I think they're afraid it'll work.

Drunk Dial Congress (http://drunkdialcongress.org/)

[Gridlock]

The rethuglicans are butthurt after obamacare became law,
the supreme court OKed obamacare and BO got re-elected on obamacare.
I think they're afraid it'll work.

Drunk Dial Congress (http://drunkdialcongress.org/)

Oh....its not going to work.

This isn't about Obamacare working. So not going to work.

This is about Obamacare breaking the current system so completely that the answer becomes Universal Single Pay.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Deadline is midnight tonight. Can anyone explain it to me like I'm five, the repercussions it would have for Canada if those asshats don't figure something out by then?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Graeme S]

CAD spikes compared to USD, people who buy online happy. Companies who sell to the US will be insanely unhappy as it makes Canadian products even more noncompetitive than even a decade ago. Any spending by the US government that was going to affect Canada (ie: infrastructure spending that would buy Canadian products) will be gone.

Technically, the US will default on all its debts owing. As for what that actually means, nobody really knows because no other country in a similar first-world position has ever done anything like this.

If you wanted to make a comparison, it would be like you, knowing that you were going to be getting a raise in future, refusing to go to the bank to ask for a higher credit limit so that you could pay off the bills that you already owe.

Many republicans believe in being 'fiscally responsible' in the sense of spending less. Great. Awesome. Wicked. Sadly, just as many if not more seem to believe that 'fiscally responsible' means not paying the debts that they already owe; which is the main issue with the defaults as they stand now.

[Gridlock]

Dollar increases in comparison to US, causing export market strain, which is a moot point because our primary market is the US.

Bond rates in the US would rise, constricting their economy's ability to loan momney, causing a recession for sure, depression maybe.

Right now, there is a senate bill that passes the buck AGAIN into the new year where they'll talk shit AGAIN about what is needed to pass another debt ceiling/fund gov't bill AGAIN. It gets the republicans out of the jam they are in, and Boehner, the speaker of the house is already calling defeat on whatever it was they were trying to accomplish in the first place.

It seemed pretty legit that the democrats would let them default the debt instead of negotiating parts of Obamacare, and poll after poll was basically saying that everyone everywhere blamed the republicans.

[Iceman-19]

So are we fucked or what?

[willystyle]

I think this guy says it best about the current economic situation.

Jim Rogers: US is exceptional...it's largest debt nation in the world! - YouTube

[Gridlock]

So are we fucked or what?

or what :)

[AW607]

The House of Representatives have passed a bill to reopen the government, debt ceiling has been raised; the shutdown ends

House approves bill to end shutdown - CNN.com@@AMEPARAM@@video: 'crime/2013/10/16/ac-sot-obama-shutdown-debt-vote.cnn'@@AMEPARAM@@crime/2013/10/16/ac-sot-obama-shutdown-debt-vote.cnn

[willystyle]

^ Open for another few months, then back to the negotiation table again. This will be a recurring cycle.

[EmperorIS]

Dave Rodgers - The Race Is Over (eurobeat) - YouTube

[Lomac]

Okay, so I'm curious to know how the debt ceiling works. Is there a specific amount that it can be raised and what prevents them from basically giving themselves a $1 Quadrillion limit as opposed to the $1.5 Trillion or so that it's currently at?

Serious question. Never really paid much attention to this sort of stuff in school. :lol

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ I am not 100% sure but here is an example.

In simple terms is like us(regular people) borrowing money from the bank to pay for your everyday needs (food, gas, bills.....). Since the money we make can't cover it we keep borrowing more. Example a year ago with our income we can pay 50% of the principle of what we borrow back, but this year we borrow more from the bank so we are only able to 30% (coz we borrow more so less is going towards the principle and more is going towards interest.). Soon if we keep borrowing money there will come a point when what we make won't even cover the interest and that's when we have to default our loan (going bankrupt). Now that we are bankrupt all of our assets are being sold to cover the loans and also our credit are ruin for a good 7 years.

So to avoid this form happening we try to spend less (less eat outs, cuts our cable, cell phones......)and hoping that with decrease spending we can pay more interests back. If a person claims bankrupt it doesn't affect the world too much (heck it won't even affect the community where you live).

What the debt ceiling does is to prevent the gov from spending more (or borrowing more to cover the spending of the gov). Also the more US borrow, the higher interest they have to pay and their credit score gets lower. I believe it also increase the amount of debt each current and future US citizen have on them. So having a high debt ceiling isn't ideal as they are just borrowing money to pay for their spending and interest to the money they own.

Since so many countries borrowed money to the US if the US goes bankrupt (default their loan). These creditor will be at a lost........ and that will really affect the world economy. However, no ones want to see that happening. Honestly though is hard to say what's right and what not. If the US gov cut spendings and social programs it will affect a lot of Americans and it might even cause the US to go into depression. At the same time keeps borrowing money isn't the solution, it is only a band aid solution.

[inv4zn]

^What about the option not discussed, which is to raise income?

Not via taxes, but perhaps another option?

Genuine question, because yours was the best fucking explanation I've seen yet.

[CRS]

Okay, so I'm curious to know how the debt ceiling works. Is there a specific amount that it can be raised and what prevents them from basically giving themselves a $1 Quadrillion limit as opposed to the $1.5 Trillion or so that it's currently at?

Serious question. Never really paid much attention to this sort of stuff in school. :lol

You'll enjoy this guy.

The Debt Limit Explained - YouTube

If you get a chance, watch his other videos too. I've learned so many random tidbits of information from this guy and he's pretty funny too.

[Gridlock]

^^kind of.

People get caught up on debt as a number, because it seems big in relation to money that most people deal with.

So "oooh scary number 17 trillion dollars think of the children ooohhh" its not bad. It's like borrowing money to buy something that makes you money. Who cares what the payment is, as long as it brings in MORE money than you pay out. So you buy infrastructure and help poor and, well, for the americans, you buy a shit load of military stuff. BUT...you can move people and goods, and not trip over dead poor people and you keep your industry in business and take all the underprivileged kids out of their neighborhoods and educate them, and occasionally some of them don't come home.

So its measured against GDP-Gross Domestic Product.

For the US? U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) Everything you need.

It's hovering, according to that at about 100%, meaning all the economy in a year could wipe the debt. Canada is 64%. Ireland is 1000%, and they are still going.

These numbers don't include unfunded liabilities which is the sum total of every dollar they as a country have agreed to pay, but haven't actually found the money to do. That's about 60 trillion.

Why do people care?

It never seems to go down. The closest in recent times is Clinton, and even he swapped deficit money for more unfunded liabilities to do it.

The interest payments get higher to service the debt. That's a more important number as you have to deny your citizens use of their money in terms of paying out interest on money used for foregone expenses.

Why people shouldn't care

Ultimately, the best is to at least have a balanced budget, and only go into deficit during times of economic distress(much like Canada did). The US is the reserve currency, in the largest economy in the world by far. They kind of don't need to play by the same rules, as they just...don't. Create a war, and their economy prospers. Create peace...and their economy prospers. Buy some gasoline, and chances are...their economy prospers.