[roastpuff]

Hi guys, I will be moving to Burns Lake, which is a small town 2 hours out from Prince George. I will not be bringing my GTI with me, because of the lack of ground clearance and winter survivability reasons. So, I need to get a new vehicle!

Here are my requirements:

Reliable, with minimal maintenance required. The nearest car dealers are either at Smithers or Prince George, which are 150+ km away. There is a Kal Tire in town, and a NAPA. I can do some wrenching on my own - I'm not a total newbie to maintaining a car myself, but I've mostly stuck to basics such as oil changes.
AWD/4WD with good ground clearance. There are some great hiking and mountain biking trails around town, but they need to be accessed through logging/forestry service roads which can get pretty rough. I have not done any off-roading before so I don't know too much of what's needed here, whether I need a 2-speed transfer case or not. There's a fair amount of snowfall in the area as well, which means that AWD/4WD would be nice to have in the winter. I took a Buick Encore on the logging roads because that's what Budget rented to me, and it was definitely minimal ground clearance at certain points.
Good fuel economy. Believe it or not the gas prices are pretty similar to Vancouver - because there's only 3 gas stations in town, which means that they charge higher prices. In Prince George it's about 15-20 cents cheaper. I will be driving around quite a bit, and I plan to drive back to Vancouver at least once every 2 months, so good fuel economy would be nice.
Comfortable - I plan to drive down to Vancouver, as mentioned above, and I would like to have a reasonably pleasant place in which to spend 10 hours on the road. Seat heaters are important!!! Good NVH characteristics are a must.
Decent power - one gripe I have against the CR-V and RAV4 are weak four-cylinder engines in the older models. Turbo or V6 would be great.
I don't have a big budget - I will be putting down a 3-5k downpayment, and financing it, or leasing it.
Not a fan of trucks - so I will probably stick to SUVs.


What I've looked at are some lease take-overs of various compact SUVs - RAV4, CR-V, Forester, etc. I'm also looking at the new 2014 Jeep Cherokee, which looks very interesting when you take the Trailhawk model into account. Some things I've found so far - Foresters only have 4-speed auto transmissions (WTF Subaru?), RAV4 only have heated seats when they come with leather (WTF Toyota?).

Can you help me find some good deals or suggest cars/SUVs that I have not thought about yet? Tips about driving on forestry/logging roads and up North would be appreciated as well! Thanks in advance!

[MindBomber]

Personally, I would not purchase a new/nearly new vehicle.

The new/nearly new vehicle depreciation will be worsened by the gnarly road conditions and kilometers you're planning, and replacement parts are especially rare. In considering this, I would recommend a third or fourth gen 4Runner limited. The fuel economy isn't the greatest, but the lesser depreciation hit will make up for it. They're a capable off-road vehicle, which is very reliable, and relatively well-appointed inside.

General safety tip.

Always have basic emergency gear in the vehicle, this should include at the minimum: first aid kit, road flares, flashlight (and spare batteries), blankets, and chocolate bars. I would have chains, a shovel, and dry clothes, too.

[dared3vil0]

If you're taking it up to Burns lake, PG etc, lease it. It will literally be destroyed after a couple winters up there. Take for example, people who live in Calgary (Also EXTREMELY hard on vehicles) they come down to Vancouver to buy used vehicles for a reason.

[yray]

For Forester, see if you could get a manual for >2014... or a brand new 2014 XT :fullofwin:. Even though its a CVT, the turbo version drives like an actual auto transmission except for downshifting.

Only all terrains for stock sizes are yokohama geolanders unless you plan to lift it.

For old foresters
4speed tranny has plenty of power in the 0-100km/h range, you might want something else if you want something more agile 100km/h+ or the 2014 version.

[dared3vil0]

Wrong thread.

[meme405]

Xterra?

Kinda thirsty, but they are really nice...

(I am only saying this, because somewhere deep down inside I still want 2010-2012 PRO-4X model with 6MT in knight armour colour)

[dared3vil0]

Good choice.

Your dis taste for pickups makes this difficult.

[twitchyzero]

Miata and summer tires

on a srs note Ive been looking into reliable SUVs...06-12 RAV4 has decent power with the v6 option and is fuel efficient.

i know you said no trucks but since you mentioned logging rounds i'd just play safe and get like a 3rd gen T4R, 1st gen Taco or Jeep TJ

[thumper]

get a turbodiesel jdm toyota hilux.

what do burns lake residents drive out there? find out what's most common and get that.

[roastpuff]

The new/nearly new vehicle depreciation will be worsened by the gnarly road conditions and kilometers you're planning, and replacement parts are especially rare. In considering this, I would recommend a third or fourth gen 4Runner limited. The fuel economy isn't the greatest, but the lesser depreciation hit will make up for it. They're a capable off-road vehicle, which is very reliable, and relatively well-appointed inside.

General safety tip.

Always have basic emergency gear in the vehicle, this should include at the minimum: first aid kit, road flares, flashlight (and spare batteries), blankets, and chocolate bars. I would have chains, a shovel, and dry clothes, too.

Thanks for the safety tip. I am looking into 4th/5th gen 4Runners but they tend to be more expensive than the smaller alternatives that I have been looking at. Are the road conditions up there that bad, if I don't go rock-crawling? I would be comfortable going almost anywhere on a 4Runner but they are bigger and more unwieldy on the road than a CUV.

If you're taking it up to Burns lake, PG etc, lease it. It will literally be destroyed after a couple winters up there. Take for example, people who live in Calgary (Also EXTREMELY hard on vehicles) they come down to Vancouver to buy used vehicles for a reason.
I've never lived that far north, so I'll have to take your word for it. But seeing that I tend to see older vehicles in relatively good condition up there... Is it that bad?
For Forester, see if you could get a manual for >2014... or a brand new 2014 XT :fullofwin:. Even though its a CVT, the turbo version drives like an actual auto transmission except for downshifting.

Only all terrains for stock sizes are yokohama geolanders unless you plan to lift it.

For old foresters
4speed tranny has plenty of power in the 0-100km/h range, you might want something else if you want something more agile 100km/h+ or the 2014 version.
I'm probably not goin to lift it, and maybe stick with more road-oriented tires. Not planning on mudding or rock-crawling... just want access to the good bike trails and hiking areas which are a bit off the beaten path. I would love a brand new XT! But they are not cheap. :okay:

Will the 4-speed handle increased power if I chip it?
Xterra?

Kinda thirsty, but they are really nice...

(I am only saying this, because somewhere deep down inside I still want 2010-2012 PRO-4X model with 6MT in knight armour colour)

Good choice.

Your dis taste for pickups makes this difficult.
I'm not a huge Nissan fan, though I am keeping an eye out on good deals for the Xterra... also, I heard it is not that good for NVH on the road or for fuel economy?
Miata and summer tires

on a srs note Ive been looking into reliable SUVs...06-12 RAV4 has decent power with the v6 option and is fuel efficient.

i know you said no trucks but since you mentioned logging rounds i'd just play safe and get like a 3rd gen T4R, 1st gen Taco or Jeep TJ
I took a Buick Encore on these "logging roads" so I think the others will survive... I am really considering a V6 RAV4 so that's sort of my main target. Just the fact that trying to find one for a good deal is hard - they retain a lot of value!
get a turbodiesel jdm toyota hilux.

what do burns lake residents drive out there? find out what's most common and get that.

I see a mix of everything... Ford Escape, Edge, Explorer, Expedition. Chevy/GMC trucks. RAV4's and CR-V's, the odd Cadillac SRX. Toyota 4Runner, Tundra Tacoma.

Also, clapped out domestic sedans lol. Pontiacs FTW!

[T4RAWR]

my vote would be for the following:

3rd gen 4runner (1996-2002)
3rd gen rav4 (2005-2012)

trucks/suv's will generally be gutless unless you have a range rover sport or a porsche cayanne. don't expect to zip around town like you do with your gti in a truck/suv.

i would personally go with a 3rd gen 4runner. there are plenty up in that neck of the woods which provides two things:
1) there are mechanics who are familiar with working on them up there
2) parts should be fairly reasonably available

its a solid work horse and will get you through most places such as forest service roads in stock configuration with little to no modifications.

the 3rd gen rav4 would be my second suggestion. it has a v6 thats fairly powerful for the size of the car as well as a center differential lock which will help you get out of sticky situations should the need arise.

regardless of what you decide to get invest in good tires. my suggestion would be for two sets, studded hakka's for fall/winter and some sort of all terrain or mud terrain in spring/summer.

if you plan on venturing off into the woods alone some recovery tools would probably be a good investment.

a hi-lift jack with a lift mate wheel adapter and base plate along with recovery straps and shackles would probably be the most basic list of items i would take into the woods if i was heading alone.

i also carry blankets, water, food, a stove and some signal flares as well as a large fully stocked first aid kit.

cellphones generally wont work out there so dont expect to rely on one.

personally if i was you and heading up that way where there may be little traffic on the forest service roads i'd probably invest in a front and rear hitch receiver. that way i would be able to winch myself out of situations should the need arise.

[k3mps]

2nd gen pathfinder
1st gen xterra especially the SC one
diesel hilux surf
forester xt/outback 3.6
toyota highlander with full time 4wd/v6, good size, newer

[MindBomber]

Thanks for the safety tip. I am looking into 4th/5th gen 4Runners but they tend to be more expensive than the smaller alternatives that I have been looking at. Are the road conditions up there that bad, if I don't go rock-crawling? I would be comfortable going almost anywhere on a 4Runner but they are bigger and more unwieldy on the road than a CUV.


In perspective, the Mazda 3 is sufficient on-road with winter tires and could manage some FSR roads. That makes the 4Runner's capability not necessary, but the added capability is something nice to have. The same is true for a CUV, because they extend your range a bit further on FSRs than the Mazda 3. I doubt you'll feel like a 4Runner's big and unwieldy in the interior/north, although it's understand that you'd feel that way in the GVRD. The lanes are wider and less crowded further from the city.

What're you moving up to Burns Lake for anyway? I hope you like beer ;)

[twitchyzero]

I am really considering a V6 RAV4 so that's sort of my main target. Just the fact that trying to find one for a good deal is hard - they retain a lot of value!


yes I never took rav4s seriously growing up around 1st and 2nd gen
I was originally looking at the highlander then as i did my research it looks like rav4 v6 is a better choice...but those articles/community feedback didn't take into account the used market pricing or availability...I'm shocked those 3rd gen are priced as much as a highlander and the 4runner...like holy shit who knew they'd retain so much value.

[dared3vil0]

If you're concerned about NVH you moved to the wrong place. I can guarantee you (from experience) that driving on chewed up logging roads is an unpleasent experience.

[donjalapeno]

if i were you i would buy a power wagon ram. So beast. Reliable. Powerful.4x4

Maybe not like the one pictured since it wont fit your budget but a older one.

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/4da2547d4d2f44c68b8d38d192edd505d7ee187.pjpg



edit: nvm didn't read..you dont like pickups :okay:

[GS8]

Ford Raptor :haha:

Or a Delica :badpokerface:

[GabAlmighty]

Tacoma

/thread

[roastpuff]

my vote would be for the following:

3rd gen 4runner (1996-2002)
3rd gen rav4 (2005-2012)

i would personally go with a 3rd gen 4runner. there are plenty up in that neck of the woods which provides two things:
1) there are mechanics who are familiar with working on them up there
2) parts should be fairly reasonably available

its a solid work horse and will get you through most places such as forest service roads in stock configuration with little to no modifications.

the 3rd gen rav4 would be my second suggestion. it has a v6 thats fairly powerful for the size of the car as well as a center differential lock which will help you get out of sticky situations should the need arise.

regardless of what you decide to get invest in good tires. my suggestion would be for two sets, studded hakka's for fall/winter and some sort of all terrain or mud terrain in spring/summer.

if you plan on venturing off into the woods alone some recovery tools would probably be a good investment.

a hi-lift jack with a lift mate wheel adapter and base plate along with recovery straps and shackles would probably be the most basic list of items i would take into the woods if i was heading alone.

i also carry blankets, water, food, a stove and some signal flares as well as a large fully stocked first aid kit.

cellphones generally wont work out there so dont expect to rely on one.

personally if i was you and heading up that way where there may be little traffic on the forest service roads i'd probably invest in a front and rear hitch receiver. that way i would be able to winch myself out of situations should the need arise.
Are these items necessary if you're going on FSRs? They seem more suited to deeper trips into the woods. I usually carry water, food, and a first aid kit when going on longer trips already so that's not much different, but tool-wise I do not have any of the items that you described.

I will be spending 80-90% of my time on the paved road simply doing daily errands; I would go onto FSRs or logging roads for recreational purposes such as hiking, camping or mountain biking.
2nd gen pathfinder
1st gen xterra especially the SC one
diesel hilux surf
forester xt/outback 3.6
toyota highlander with full time 4wd/v6, good size, newer
No RHD please... I am considering the Forester, Highlander, RAV4 and maybe a newer Xterra.
In perspective, the Mazda 3 is sufficient on-road with winter tires and could manage some FSR roads. That makes the 4Runner's capability not necessary, but the added capability is something nice to have. The same is true for a CUV, because they extend your range a bit further on FSRs than the Mazda 3. I doubt you'll feel like a 4Runner's big and unwieldy in the interior/north, although it's understand that you'd feel that way in the GVRD. The lanes are wider and less crowded further from the city.

What're you moving up to Burns Lake for anyway? I hope you like beer ;)
I'm moving up there for a GIS Technician position with the regional district, which is based out of Burns Lake. As for a CUV vs. Mazda3 comparison, I would not have taken a Mazda 3 on these FSRs due to the potholes there. Considering I took a Buick Encore - as cute a CUV as you can get - and it did relatively okay, I'm hoping something with more ground clearance such as the RAV4 or Forester will do fine. Yes, a bigger SUV is not going to be cramped there but I will be by myself for the most part. We'll see what I end up getting it's dictated by my budget more than anything.

Here are sample photos:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q86/s720x720/1383139_10100752239902211_1285948144_n.jpg
https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q85/s720x720/1208961_10100752239977061_672627579_n.jpg
yes I never took rav4s seriously growing up around 1st and 2nd gen
I was originally looking at the highlander then as i did my research it looks like rav4 v6 is a better choice...but those articles/community feedback didn't take into account the used market pricing or availability...I'm shocked those 3rd gen are priced as much as a highlander and the 4runner...like holy shit who knew they'd retain so much value.
Yeah I know right! The 1st and 2nd gen were kind of cutesy... the 3rd gen was better but now it's back to cutesy.
Tacoma

/thread
Don't like trucks.

Guys, I will be spending 80-90% of my time on the paved road simply doing daily errands; I would go onto FSRs or logging roads for recreational purposes such as hiking, camping or mountain biking.

[eclipseman]

I recently rented an SUV from Hertz to drive down to Arizona and they gave me a Dodge Journey R/T....

This was a gem. We drove approximately 6500kms and the car took it like a beast. It's fast, spacious and pretty damn cheap. Fully loaded I believe they are roughly 32-35k...

Seriously considering this when I upgrade the wife's Rav4.

[xilley]

3rd gen 4runner

[cdizzle_996]

96-01 4Runner Limited with BFG All Terrains.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Lomac]

Why sell your soul by buying an SUV when you can pick up something like an Audi All-road or Volvo XC70? AWD, plenty of ground clearance, lots of interior space, and you're not driving a giant gas guzzler.

:fullofwin:

[roastpuff]

Why sell your soul by buying an SUV when you can pick up something like an Audi All-road or Volvo XC70? AWD, plenty of ground clearance, lots of interior space, and you're not driving a giant gas guzzler.

:fullofwin:

And when it breaks I would get stuck in the middle of nowhere! :badpokerface:

One reason why I'm mostly considering domestic/Toyota is that there is not a lot of workshops or dealers where I am that can deal with European makes. I have a GTI, and though it's been mechanically fine I'm a bit leery about dealing with potential problems down the road.

I'm looking at the 3rd gen 4Runners but I kind of want something newer. :(

I recently rented an SUV from Hertz to drive down to Arizona and they gave me a Dodge Journey R/T....

This was a gem. We drove approximately 6500kms and the car took it like a beast. It's fast, spacious and pretty damn cheap. Fully loaded I believe they are roughly 32-35k...

Seriously considering this when I upgrade the wife's Rav4.

Hmm, I should look at the Journey then. I've kind of written them off as not enough ground clearance... I'll have to see about that.

[Jmac]

Full-size truck for sure

Driving around PG in a Versa was scary as fuck with the moose and bears that cross the highway. Almost hit a black bear at 110 last time I was out there :badpokerface:

[1990TSI]

Hmm, I should look at the Journey then. I've kind of written them off as not enough ground clearance... I'll have to see about that.

if you want something reliable that won't leave you stranded I wouldn't consider a chrysler product....

you know that though don't you.

[T4RAWR]

Are these items necessary if you're going on FSRs? They seem more suited to deeper trips into the woods. I usually carry water, food, and a first aid kit when going on longer trips already so that's not much different, but tool-wise I do not have any of the items that you described.


necessary?

probably not, one of those better to have and not need than need and not have moments.

if you're strictly sticking to just the FSR with no side trails then yah, you probably wont need any recovery equipment. i would at the bare minimum get a recovery strap and shackles, they dont cost too much and can be useful in other ways.

if you plan on travelling solo i do recommend them. its just my advice, you dont have to take it but its all peace of mind at the end of the day.

sometimes the best camp sites are just a little ways off the FSR, you cant camp on the actual FSR itself so this usually becomes the situation. if you DO get stuck with no way of getting yourself out you'll be in a world of shit, thats for sure (i speak from experience).

[thumper]

no excuses for getting stuck if you had this:

1998 LAND ROVER DEFENDER 90 WOLF LHD (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/nvn/cto/4098877333.html)

http://images.craigslist.org/00909_l0ogWpBzuEu_600x450.jpg

[thumper]

... or maybe OJ Simpson's getaway car

1993 White Ford Bronco Custom 4WD - $13,980 - For Sale, Finance Lease or Buy SUV's Vancouver, BC - Bluestarmotors.com (http://www.bluestarmotors.com/index.php?page=showroom&vehicle_id=2442)

http://www.bluestarmotors.com/img/inventory/1369265763.jpg?s=320x240

[meme405]

Good choice on passing on the AWD sedans and such. As someone else pointed out where you are going the standard cars that people around the GVRD use to get around during winter to go skiing and not get stuck will simply get you killed up north.

The deer and wildlife population is staggering, when I worked north of Williams Lake I would be driving 1 hour to and from work and we had 3 trucks hit deers in about 3 months.

I hit a deer at about 120 in a relatively new Diesel F350 and the truck was totaled. were talking about a $60000 that was below 10K km being wrecked from a deer collision. In any smaller car on that road in those conditions with what happened I could have very well died. The size and height of the car prevented any injury to me, I literally got out of the truck and left it for the tow truck and hitched a ride to work.

[Nabatron]

mazda cx-5

good on gas and I think best looking SUV on the market.

[noclue]

What meme405 said. I don't like pick ups but I definitely recommend one for safety if you are up there working. I always ran into wildlife on the highway/roads when I was there for business. Also agree with the suggestion for leasing, I don't know about Burns Lake but in Prince George they salt like crazy + the additional engine stress from starting/operating in -25C/-38C weather.

As for gas there's a first nations gas station near the hospital so make some friends and get hooked up with status discount.

[multicartual]

PG... what a shithole

[snails]

http://www.spacejunk.co.nz/temp/hilux.jpg

[white rocket]

If I were you I would buy this: toyota 4runner 2000 limited (http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/pml/cto/4117597160.html)

Fuck buying something new(ish) and pissing away a down payment. Use your down payment and buy this. It fits almost all of your requirements except gas mileage. Not shitty but not economical.

[T4RAWR]

set of hakkas and thule xb16's and she'll go balls deep in snow :fullofwin:

[roastpuff]

Ended up with a 2010 Forester XT, picked it up for a steal. $19k for a 2010 with only 40k on the clock!

Now I'm trying to decide between Hakka R2 or Xi3.
Posted via RS Mobile

[thumper]

Ended up with a 2010 Forester XT, picked it up for a steal. $19k for a 2010 with only 40k on the clock!

Now I'm trying to decide between Hakka R2 or Xi3.
Posted via RS Mobile

nice... only problem i can see is the fuel economy and mandatory need for premium fuel. will that be okay out there in the middle of nowhere?

[roastpuff]

nice... only problem i can see is the fuel economy and mandatory need for premium fuel. will that be okay out there in the middle of nowhere?

Decided to go for the Hakka R2. Costco doesn't stock the steelies, and ordering from them will take 2 weeks which I don't have so I went to Kal Tire, where I get 10% discount as a London Drugs employee - use the discount while I still have it, lol. And T4RAWR, going to find me some chains and recovery straps to put in the trunk. Any good places to find them?

I think the premium fuel required/fuel economy should be fine... The fuel economy will be better since there is no city driving to speak of. :badpokerface: I'm so close to work that I might just bike to work instead (yes in the snow, thinking of Nokian snow tires for my bicycle). I'm thinking of doing a Cobb Stage 1 but that might not be the smartest idea lol.

And there's a decent amount of big-name gas stations out where I am (Esso, Chevron, etc.) that I don't see an issue finding premium.

On my last run to Point Roberts today in the GTI I noticed some misfires when WOT. My brother will just have to deal with it. :ilied:

[T4RAWR]

you can pick up recovery straps and shackles at princess auto.

rule of thumb that i was taught was to pick up a strap rated for 3 times the weight of your vehicle. this is to account for the "snap/snatch" factor, basically the slack tightening on a hard pull.

i picked up my thule xb16 chains online. ordered through amazon.com and then shipped to point roberts. it was the cheapest option i could find. you could probably order the shackles and straps online off amazon too.

if you dont have a rear tow point you can get a two inch hitch receiver with shackle.

check your owners manual on the type of chains you can run. because its a cuv you might need cable or low clearance chains for the vehicle.

also a snow shovel and a small emergency kit probably wouldnt be a bad idea either.

[finbar]

http://lgcdn.jeep4x4center.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/i/winch-roller-fairlead-light-holes-11238.03_3294.jpg

Or a come-along.

[T4RAWR]

http://lgcdn.jeep4x4center.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/i/winch-roller-fairlead-light-holes-11238.03_3294.jpg

Or a come-along.

http://www.stiblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dsc04404.jpg


:fullofwin:

[roastpuff]

That Forester looks pretty awesome, actually...
Posted via RS Mobile

[GrahamD]

3rd gen 4runner! Undercoat the rear bumper to prevent the inevitable winter toyota rust i have seen on every 4runner up here.. I'm from Smithers and the 4runner beasts up the ski hill/logging roads and is not terrible on gas