[mpr]

2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 Laps Nurburgring in 7:37.47

What you guys think? Would you get one?

http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/2013/10/2014-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-at-Nurburgring-right-front-2-796x528.jpg

Nurburgring Lap Times: 2014 Camaro Z28 Tops Published Times | Chevrolet - YouTube

[lowside67]

I definitely wouldn't be buying one, but that's quick, I can respect that. A C6 Z06 is less money (as a slightly used car), is quicker around the track, and a better looking car IMO.

Mark

[GS8]

Doesn't matter what engine, what speed, what time

I still can't see shit out of it...

Very impressive though.

[Mr.Stubbz]

i do like how they slightly restyled the bonnet giving it a beak like look at the grille. but yea no, its still a massive friggin car

[Iceman-19]

Even started raining on the one part of the track and it got a little wild for the driver. Wonder what tires were on it, pulling over a G in the corners, definitely not a street tire.

[brute_4s]

timpo is gonna go ape shit about why you should buy a gtr instead and pay a lot more money

[Hehe]

Timpo mode=on

Still slower than a GT-R

/Timpo Mode

:fuckthatshit:

Very impressive numbers. Faster than Ferrari 458, C06 ZR1 and Lexus LFA. But as someone mentioned above, it doesn't look like stock tires...

[lowside67]

Very impressive numbers. Faster than Ferrari 458, C06 ZR1 and Lexus LFA. But as someone mentioned above, it doesn't look like stock tires...

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times)

7:14.64 Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009)
7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia

No, no, and no... haha

[Timpo]

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times)

7:14.64 Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009)
7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia

No, no, and no... haha

7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) :suspicious:

[Timpo]

oh but compare to the GT-R it's not that fast so meh,

7:18.6 Nissan GT-R

[dangonay]

oh but compare to the GT-R it's not that fast so meh,

7:18.6 Nissan GT-R

Nissan conducted test. Enough said - they are known cheaters.

[belka]

What you guys think? Would you get one?

No, it's still a GM. I've driven enough "fast" American cars to know that I'll never own one. I currently have a euro sports car and I've yet to feel the same connection, fit and finish, hp and quality in anything American. Germans know how to build a car starting from the drivers seat out. No hate, it's just from my experience and opinion.

[Timpo]

Nissan conducted test. Enough said - they are known cheaters.

no they're not

that was just porsche bitching at nissan because they lost badly

[Timpo]

Nissan even offered Porsche driving lessons

Nissan offers Porsche driving tips | Wheels24 (http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/General_News/Nissan-offers-Porsche-driving-tips-20081013)
Nissan Officially Responds To Porsche Skepticism, Recommends Driving Lessons (http://jalopnik.com/5060960/nissan-officially-responds-to-porsche-skepticism-recommends-driving-lessons)
Nissan offers Porsche driving lessons and tires from the GT-R Nurburgring run - egmCarTech (http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/10/09/nissan-offers-porsche-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-time-tires-and-driving-lessons/)

[kunoman1]

no they're not

that was just porsche bitching at nissan because they lost badly

Whatever, the 918 still dominated the ring

Also, would buy this Camaro in a heartbeat

[supremematt85]

Nissan even offered Porsche driving lessons

Nissan offers Porsche driving tips | Wheels24 (http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/General_News/Nissan-offers-Porsche-driving-tips-20081013)
Nissan Officially Responds To Porsche Skepticism, Recommends Driving Lessons (http://jalopnik.com/5060960/nissan-officially-responds-to-porsche-skepticism-recommends-driving-lessons)
Nissan offers Porsche driving lessons and tires from the GT-R Nurburgring run - egmCarTech (http://www.egmcartech.com/2008/10/09/nissan-offers-porsche-gt-r-nurburgring-lap-time-tires-and-driving-lessons/)
Go home Timpo, you're drunk.
Posted via RS Mobile

[dangonay]

no they're not

that was just porsche bitching at nissan because they lost badly

Who says I'm talking about Porsche? Nissan sends boosted cars and lies by claiming they are stock. The proof is in the side-by-side video of the ZR-1 vs the GT-R.

[kwy]

I might have to side with James May on this..unless you actually intend on tracking the car on a regular basis, ring times are nothing more than a marketing gimmick. And we all know 95% of the people who will buy this car (and can even afford to buy this car) are 50-something white men who have no intention of taking it to the track.

[meme405]

I might have to side with James May on this..unless you actually intend on tracking the car on a regular basis, ring times are nothing more than a marketing gimmick. And we all know 95% of the people who will buy this car (and can even afford to buy this car) are 50-something white men who have no intention of taking it to the track.

And don't forget it ruins the car on regular roads...

[kwy]

usually, yeah.

[GS8]

No, it's still a GM. I've driven enough "fast" American cars to know that I'll never own one. I currently have a euro sports car and I've yet to feel the same connection, fit and finish, hp and quality in anything American. Germans know how to build a car starting from the drivers seat out. No hate, it's just from my experience and opinion.

German maintenance :fuckthatshit:

[multicartual]

German maintenance :fuckthatshit:


BMW chassis + domestic V8 and simple 5-speed/6-speed transmission

[Hehe]

List of Nürburgring Nordschleife lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nürburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times)

7:14.64 Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package
7:26.4 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2009)
7:32.92 Ferrari 458 Italia

No, no, and no... haha

Check the list further down... :badpokerface:

[Timpo]

Even started raining on the one part of the track and it got a little wild for the driver. Wonder what tires were on it, pulling over a G in the corners, definitely not a street tire.

It is a Street Tire.

Pirelli P-ZERO Trofeo R
http://response.jp/imgs/zoom/613492.jpg
http://cosmone.com/sites/default/files/images/Pirelli-P-Zero-Trofeo-r.jpg

[thumper]

^ damn... i see ceramic brake rotors. and this is a 305/30/zr19 tire on all 4 corners? i know people who buy this car can afford it but i can't help but wonder what all this is worth to replace when they wear out 0_0

[lowside67]

It is a Street Tire.

Pirelli P-ZERO Trofeo R
http://response.jp/imgs/zoom/613492.jpg
http://cosmone.com/sites/default/files/images/Pirelli-P-Zero-Trofeo-r.jpg
From Pirelli's website:

P Zero™ Trofeo R - The track is your road.
An innovative ultra-low profile tyre, with asymmetric tread pattern.

Designed for racetrack driving on dry asphalt.

Specific for racetrack driving, it is approved for road use, enabling travel to the track. In the event of very wet asphalt, with the risk of aquaplaning, prudent driving at reduced speed is recommended.

[Timpo]

Compare to ZL1, the Z28 is 300 lbs lighter.

Apparently Z28 pulls 1.05G at corner too.

[Timpo]

From Pirelli's website:

P Zero™ Trofeo R - The track is your road.
An innovative ultra-low profile tyre, with asymmetric tread pattern.

Designed for racetrack driving on dry asphalt.

Specific for racetrack driving, it is approved for road use, enabling travel to the track. In the event of very wet asphalt, with the risk of aquaplaning, prudent driving at reduced speed is recommended.

yeah that's what I said, you can use it on the street :suspicious:

[lowside67]

No... you said it was a street tire. It is a DOT approved (and therefore street legal) RACE TIRE DESIGNED FOR THE RACE TRACK. Technically it is an "R-compound" (you probably dont know that term, it doesnt apply to hardparking or GTR wanking, but if you did any actual racing you'd know what it meant).

[Timpo]

ok so how can that tire be approved for road use?

[Timpo]

No... you said it was a street tire. It is a DOT approved (and therefore street legal) RACE TIRE DESIGNED FOR THE RACE TRACK. Technically it is an "R-compound" (you probably dont know that term, it doesnt apply to hardparking or GTR wanking, but if you did any actual racing you'd know what it meant).

ok I found this link.

"Pirelli’s D.O.T. Approved State-of-the-Art Track Tire for Serious Driving Enthusiasts"

P Zero? Trofeo ? Pirelli?s D.O.T. Approved State-of-the-Art Track Tire for Serious Driving Enthusiasts (http://www.pirelli.com/tire/us/en/news/2009/11/05/p-zero%E2%84%A2-trofeo-%E2%80%93-pirelli%E2%80%99s-d-o-t-approved-state-of-the-art-track-tire-for-serious-driving-enthusiasts/)

[mpr]

and now we're back from our commercial break with our sponsor Pirelli Trofeo R.


Even started raining on the one part of the track and it got a little wild for the driver. Wonder what tires were on it, pulling over a G in the corners, definitely not a street tire.


Al Oppenheiser stated:
“One of the challenges of testing at the ‘Ring is that the track is so long that conditions can change radically in a single lap,” said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer, in a release. “Adam Dean, the development driver for Z/28, did a heroic job driving in deteriorating conditions. Based on telemetry data from our test sessions, we know the Z/28 can be as much as six seconds faster on a dry track.”

Does this mean the Z/28 could potentially run 7:31.xx ?

[Timpo]

even at 7:31, the GT-R will still be faster

[Timpo]

Even started raining on the one part of the track and it got a little wild for the driver. Wonder what tires were on it, pulling over a G in the corners, definitely not a street tire.

oh fuck that shit

The Camaero Z28 is only pulling 1.05G.
Viper ACR was pulling 1.5G because the rear wing created enough downforce to do so.
Porsche 962 Dauer and Caparo T1 could both pull 3.0G or so and they're both street legal.

[falcon]

oh but compare to the GT-R it's not that fast so meh,

7:18.6 Nissan GT-R


Yup, so much slower. 19 seconds over a period of 7 and a half minutes. I'd like to see you notice the difference.

[Iceman-19]

And like I said, NOT ON A STREET TIRE.

[falcon]

ok so how can that tire be approved for road use?

I don't know, tell me... why is this legal?

http://content.mamotorworks.com/img300/fr9499.jpg


You seem to always talk so much shit like you know everything, when infact you know very little. It gets annoying after a while.

[Timpo]

^ how is that tire relevant to the one on Camaro?

So what you're saying is that GM is selling a Camaro with non road legal tires.

The question is, will you get pulled over if you had that P Zero on Camaro. Is it illegal to drive it on the street?

[Iceman-19]

GM won't sell the Camaro z/28 with those tires.

[falcon]

^ how is that tire relevant to the one on Camaro?

So what you're saying is that GM is selling a Camaro with non road legal tires.

The question is, will you get pulled over if you had that P Zero on Camaro. Is it illegal to drive it on the street?

How is it comparable? Well you're comparing the GTR to the Camaro. The GTR time was not done on DOT tires. The Camaro was. You ask "how can a tire like that be road legal" well it is. Maybe not the best tire for the road but it is infact road legal.

The "question is".. yes it is ROAD LEGAL. That's what DOT approved means. So no, it's not illegal. But like Iceman said, they won't sell it with those. They just did it on the ring with these tires to say it was done on a "DOT" tire. If they had done it on a full slick that time would be 20-30 seconds, maybe even more, lower.

[123654123]

^ i sense that your jimmies have been rustled

[Timpo]

How is it comparable? Well you're comparing the GTR to the Camaro. The GTR time was not done on DOT tires. The Camaro was. You ask "how can a tire like that be road legal" well it is. Maybe not the best tire for the road but it is infact road legal.

The "question is".. yes it is ROAD LEGAL. That's what DOT approved means. So no, it's not illegal. But like Iceman said, they won't sell it with those. They just did it on the ring with these tires to say it was done on a "DOT" tire. If they had done it on a full slick that time would be 20-30 seconds, maybe even more, lower.

as far as i know, GT-R was never tested on R compound and Nissan's official times have always been stock GT-R.

ok so those tires not DOT approved? P Zero? Trofeo ? Pirelli?s D.O.T. Approved State-of-the-Art Track Tire for Serious Driving Enthusiasts (http://www.pirelli.com/tire/us/en/news/2009/11/05/p-zero%E2%84%A2-trofeo-%E2%80%93-pirelli%E2%80%99s-d-o-t-approved-state-of-the-art-track-tire-for-serious-driving-enthusiasts/)

what's the difference then?

How do you know GM won't sell with those tires?

[Iceman-19]

Jesus fuck timpo. They are DOT approved, but they are a specialty mainly race tire. They even STATE this. Yes, DOT and road legal, but built for RACING. They wouldn't sell them on a mass production cars simply because of liability reasons, let alone GM bean counters.

[JoshuaWong]

^ I don't see why they wouldn't sell this with the car. They are DOT legal track tires much like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup +/ZP/N Spec. It wears like eraser, it doesn't work in the rain or cold but they come standard on the GT2, GT2RS, GT3, GT3RS, Corvette ZR-1 (2012), Corvette Z06 (2013)....

Those are mass production cars as well. The Z/28 is a track focused edition so I don't see why not. People should be well aware what they are getting into when they buy these kind of performance cars.

I think they should and most likely will sell with these tires...

[Timpo]

Jesus fuck timpo. They are DOT approved, but they are a specialty mainly race tire. They even STATE this. Yes, DOT and road legal, but built for RACING. They wouldn't sell them on a mass production cars simply because of liability reasons, let alone GM bean counters.

How would that be a libility issue if it's approved by DOT?

[Timpo]

^ I don't see why they wouldn't sell this with the car. They are DOT legal track tires much like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup +/ZP/N Spec. It wears like eraser, it doesn't work in the rain or cold but they come standard on the GT2, GT2RS, GT3, GT3RS, Corvette ZR-1 (2012), Corvette Z06 (2013)....

Those are mass production cars as well. The Z/28 is a track focused edition so I don't see why not. People should be well aware what they are getting into when they buy these kind of performance cars.

I think they should and most likely will sell with these tires...yeah I know

Lotus Exige S comes with Yokohama Advan A048.

Which is considered as DOT Approved Race Tire.
Advan A048 Performance Tires | Yokohama Tire Corp. (http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/detail/advan_a048)
http://www.plminishop.com/product_uploads/1272203630_original_2.jpg
http://news-images.caradisiac.com/IMG/jpg/3/6/2/3/1/Lotus_Exige_S_2.jpg

[Iceman-19]

Because its a fucking LOTUS TIMPO. The Ford GT500 has 640hp and can go 200mph with a factory warrenty. It rocks widely regarded as "lousy" Goodyears. The MAJOR car markers have deals with different tire brands. They look at the bottom line. Lotus is small, super small compared to GM. You don't get it, and never will.

[Iceman-19]

^ I don't see why they wouldn't sell this with the car. They are DOT legal track tires much like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup +/ZP/N Spec. It wears like eraser, it doesn't work in the rain or cold but they come standard on the GT2, GT2RS, GT3, GT3RS, Corvette ZR-1 (2012), Corvette Z06 (2013)....

Those are mass production cars as well. The Z/28 is a track focused edition so I don't see why not. People should be well aware what they are getting into when they buy these kind of performance cars.

I think they should and most likely will sell with these tires...

There is nothing MASS production about any of the cars you listed. The Z06 probably sells more then all combined, so its the exception.

[ProBoostin]

GM would probably sell you those tires on the Z28 as a special order from the factory.

The mass part has nothing to do with mass-production of vehicles. A production vehicle is short for mass-production vehicle. Any car made on a production line that isn't a prototype or concept is considered a production car. There is no minimum/maximum on the amount of cars produced that classifieds it as a production car. Took google 0.18 seconds to figure that one out.

[JoshuaWong]

^all of those gets built along side the lower tamer counterparts on the same assembly line, whats not mass production about that? A Zonda on the other hand is not mass production. But yeah, in that case I think they will at least have it as a performance option as they did on the Z06/ZR1.

[Timpo]

There is nothing MASS production about any of the cars you listed. The Z06 probably sells more then all combined, so its the exception.

I doubt that Z28 Camaro is going to be MASS produced

[Iceman-19]

Thats all fine and dandy. The Z/28 will still not come with those tires from the factory.

[thumper]

damn...


General Motors engineers worked to take weight out of the Camaro Z/28. Chevy says the Z/28 weighs 100 pounds less than the Camaro SS and 300 pounds less than the supercharged Camaro ZL1. That implies a curb weight of around 3,800 pounds (Chevrolet lists the curb weight of the 2013 Camaro SS with a manual transmission at 3,860 pounds and the 2013 Camaro ZL1 at 4,120 pounds.)

In keeping with the less-weight mantra there is no carpet in the trunk and no interior sound deadening material, a one-speaker sound system and thinner rear glass on the Z/28. The front seats use manual adjusters. The pass through was eliminated from the rear seat back and foam replaces some rigid structure in the rear seats. Fog lights and HID headlights are not available and the needed wiring was taken out of the harness. Air conditioning is optional.



Read more: 2014 Chevy Camaro Z/28 rolls out at New York auto show - Autoweek (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130327/newyork/130329827#ixzz2hzbnU4Cc)
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook

even after throwing out everything and the kitchen sink it still weighs 3800lbs? where does all that weight come from?

[thumper]

Thats all fine and dandy. The Z/28 will still not come with those tires from the factory.

googled around and they all say the trofeo-r is the only tire option for the z/28. that's insane. there are going to be a lot of z/28's wrapped around telephone poles on rainy days.

[Iceman-19]

Well after reading that, they built it like the Boss 302, so yes I can see that being sold with an aggressive tire.

[ilvtofu]

Al Oppenheiser stated:
“One of the challenges of testing at the ‘Ring is that the track is so long that conditions can change radically in a single lap,” said Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer, in a release. “Adam Dean, the development driver for Z/28, did a heroic job driving in deteriorating conditions. Based on telemetry data from our test sessions, we know the Z/28 can be as much as six seconds faster on a dry track.”

Does this mean the Z/28 could potentially run 7:31.xx ?

I think they basically added up the best section times and found that result. It always bothers me why they use nurburgring lap times as a benchmark. I understand the track as a testing grounds since it's got a wide variety of speed and turns, but the actual number can be hugely affected by the slightest driver error, not just by the car's tuning/ease to drive.

Also, The car's interior looks really dated for a 3-4 year old car. Although if GM keeps up what they're doing with the C7 and new cadillacs, the next gen Camaro is definitely worth waiting for. The Z28 is a great performance step in the right direction and they've completely evolved what we perceive a factory engineered camaro to be like on the track, now we just need to see the overall car improve.
http://topautomag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/2014-Chevrolet-Camaro-Z28-Interior.jpg

Better visibility, interior design, rear seat, and the same advanced manufacturing/engineering techniques we see on the C7 and you'll have a best seller by 2017. It's an exciting time we're living in though, just 2 years ago the boss mustang blew us away and really gained a lot of respect for the car. I love this spirit of competition leading to better new cars all around.