[Acura604]

this is DEFINITELY not limited to Ontario...and i'm pretty sure it's happening everywhere. I would rather pay the premium at a dealership or a known auto service center than give a penny to these low-cost scammers.


Oil-change shop caught scamming customers: Marketplace investigation - Canada - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/oil-change-shop-caught-scamming-customers-marketplace-investigation-1.2418675)

An Ontario chain of quick oil-change shops is up-selling customers with unnecessary work and not performing services that customers have paid for, a CBC Marketplace investigation has found.

Economy Lube has 12 shops across southwestern Ontario. After speaking with former employees, Marketplace tested Economy Lube’s service, with cars equipped with hidden cameras.

The investigation uncovered a variety of problematic business practices, including aggressive upselling of services that cost hundreds of dollars and were not needed and work that was charged for but not completed.


“Generally speaking, these places deal with volume, not necessarily a repeat customer,” mechanic Mark Sach-Anderson told Marketplace co-host Tom Harrington. “Most people don’t know about their cars,” said Sach-Anderson, who’s been in the industry for more than 20 years.

“All they can do is take somebody’s word for it. And if [shops] can show them a printout or something and it says, ‘Hey, this needs doing,’ who are they to dispute it?”

Mark Sach-Anderson, a mechanic who’s been in the industry for more than 20 years, says many oil change shops are run by salespeople, not licensed mechanics. (CBC)

​Equipped with hidden cameras, Marketplace sent in three people with test cars for a basic oil change to document the service at Economy Lube. All three cars had been extensively examined by Sach-Anderson, who checked and, where necessary, replaced all other fluids to ensure that the cars only needed an oil change.

Economy Lube advertises its oil change as taking 10 minutes and costing $20. Despite this low cost, all three testers were told that additional services were needed, including servicing the transmission system, a coolant flush, a flush of the brake fluid system and a flush of the power steering fluid. The costs of the recommended but unnecessary services ranged from $180 to $250.

In one case, Economy Lube salespeople recommended replacing fluid that had just been changed, suggesting that the fluid smelled like it was burning. In some cases, the work was done improperly.

Services not performed may be fraud

There is little recourse for consumers who fear they might have been ripped off when having their cars serviced. “It’s a heads-up for consumers,” says Mark Simchison, former fraud chief for the Hamilton police. “Be wary of who you deal with.” (CBC)

​The Marketplace investigation also found that Economy Lube charged customers for some services but failed to perform the work.

Mark Simchison, former fraud chief with the Hamilton police, said that this discovery is troubling.

“If they are … receiving money for services that they did not perform, that you paid for, in all honesty, that’s fraud,” says Simchison.


There is little recourse for consumers who fear they might have been ripped off, he says, as it would be difficult for most people to prove that fraud had taken place.


“It’s a heads-up for consumers,” Simchison says. “Be wary of who you deal with.”


Marketplace contacted Economy Lube owner Stephen Moxey who denied that the shop failed to perform the services paid for, and said that any employee not doing work would be fired immediately.


Current regulations do not require that staff at oil change shops be licensed mechanics, and consumers may not be aware that salespeople are making recommendations about what services are necessary. (CBC)

Quick change oil and lube shops are a more than $9 billion US industry in North America, with a number of competing chains offering similar services. Sach-Anderson says that the emphasis in some shops is on sales, not proper diagnosis of problems.


“The reality is, they’re not technicians and they are not mechanics,” he says. “A mechanic’s licence is five years of on-the-job training and a minimum of three years of in-school training. These guys are straight out of high school, and when they’ve walked into these places, might not have known how to open a hood.”


Sach-Anderson says more regulation is needed to protect consumers. Current regulations do not require that staff at oil change shops be licensed mechanics, and consumers may not be aware that salespeople are making recommendations about what services are necessary.

If you’re unsure about the services being offered, Sach-Anderson says, make sure that any diagnosis is coming from a licensed mechanic who you trust. And knowing how often your car needs key services is also important.



Greasy Business

Watch Marketplace's episode on oil change shops, Greasy Business, on Friday Nov. 8 at 8 p.m. (8:30 p.m. in Newfoundland and Labrador).

[dared3vil0]

This is exactly why i avoid these places like the plague. I'd much rather have a dealership do the work so if you need warranty work done, they can't claim improper maintenance caused it.

[fliptuner]

Old news.

No one really makes money on oil changes. Oil changes get people in the door or back to the shop when more profitable repairs are needed.

The only way 15 minute oil change places make money is on volume, low labour cost and upselling.

[BBMme]

why I go to the same shop every time and I hope he hasn't been ripping me off all these years lol. Which I don't think

[vvd]

Shops are supposed to upsell services to make money. Cheap oil changes is a common way to draw in customers. For $20 they are definitely not making money. Unfortunately, this is definitely nothing new. I've heard about shops around here overcharging and forcing customers to do work that isn't necessary. Getting to know more about your own vehicle and not being ignorant is probably one of the best ways to protect yourself.
Posted via RS Mobile

[greendb7]

I used to work at a Mr Lube, stuff that happened there made me sick. I get written up for not reaching quotas because I couldn't bring myself to lie to people about what their vehicles needed. Take it from me, don't go to quick oil change places UNLESS it's only for an oil change, and don't trust what those fucking grease balls say to you.

[white rocket]

I always felt that these places were sketchy. Total upsell scumbag salesperson tactics who lie to meet a certain quota. As much as I dislike dealerships for their high labor rates the oil change service, in most cases, is the same price as a quick lube place. At least with a dealership there is, or would seem to be, more recourse if there is an issue of the work being completed incorrectly. The quick lubes will fight tooth and nail if you complain.

cliffs/ quick lubes can eat a fat dick

[fliptuner]

Who would you trust to change your oil, brake fluid, coolant, ATF? Someone with formal training or a kid making 8 bucks an hour, that has to make quota?

If you don't like dealerships, just go to a reputable private shop.

[greendb7]

Oh and to add, a lot of the guys they hire don't know jack shit about cars. I've come across guys that couldn't change a fucking brake light bulb for fucks sake.
One guy I worked with was in and out of prison for kidnapping and trying to cross the border with that person in the trunk.

[snails]

this is why I do everything myself and for the things im not capable of doing alone i get help from friends who are..


saves me money and I get to learn something new

[boostfever]

been to mr Lube once, got in an argument with them and never went back. I had my washer fluid topped off a day before I went for the oil change and told them not to bother with it. still charged me 2 bucks for topping it off.

[Manic!]

Who would you trust to change your oil, brake fluid, coolant, ATF? Someone with formal training or a kid making 8 bucks an hour, that has to make quota?

If you don't like dealerships, just go to a reputable private shop.

Watching it right now. there making 65 to 100k a year. On top of that they charge you for stuff they don't even do.

[kwy]

I go to the dealer now..used to do it myself, then I found out it cost about the same to have the dealer do it. Saves me the work. Wouldn't take my car to a sketchy $20 oil change place, or an oil change chain with high school kids working on my car.

[theSpeedSyndicate]

Even when you do go to a dealership, chances are the kid doing your oil change is fresh out of high school too.

[dared3vil0]

Even when you do go to a dealership, chances are the kid doing your oil change is fresh out of high school too.

Yes, but if they forget to put oil in like a few of these quick lube places, it'll be alot easier to get restitution.

[bcrdukes]

If you don't like dealerships, just go to a reputable private shop.

I go to private modders. :accepted:

[meme405]

Even when you do go to a dealership, chances are the kid doing your oil change is fresh out of high school too.

Not always, but in some cases this may be partly true. Partly true in that most dealers can get apprentices to do lube work because there are a lot of apprentices out there looking for work. Even in the case that a dealer has just hired some kid to do oil changes he has probably been shown multiple times by someone with proper training how to do it correctly, and he is to some degree either being observed or has in the past had his work checked to make sure he was not screwing anything up.

So I would trust a dealer much more than jiffy lube.

Also as said multiple times they will simply sell you work they never perform. There was another thread on this where a news station went undercover and a bunch of the stuff the shop sold them was not being done. I think the worst part of that was that the guys weren't changing the oil filters sometimes...

Also Transmissions and engine flushes are crap, if you pay for having that work done you wasted your money and in some cases it does more damage than good...

[is350]

^ +1, a lot of people have the assumption that some private shops charge less for an oil change, or brake replacement, but in reality they are about the same...
Also just had my tires replaced at my dealer, the price ended up being even $10 cheaper than what discount tire has to offer in bellingham. Go to dealer for fix or fix it yourself.

[acurael]

Used to go to Mr. Lube here and there a few years ago. They would always tell me my tranny oil was dirty and needed changing. Even 6000km after i got it changed lol. and normal maintenance was to change it every 48,000km so they were bullshitting. I told the guy I just changed it, and he said oh thats weird and continued doing his work.:ahwow:
most of the people that work their are students and don't know anything.

[meme405]

Regular lube work is so easy. Even differential oil or power steering fluid is easy to do. Everyone should do it themselves especially if they love working on their cars, or love their cars...

If anyone on RS doesn't know and is willing to learn and get their hands dirty shoot me a PM I will show you and help you do it on your very own car...

[finbar]

Quickie Lube tried to pull a fast one on me, plate bulb out.
I hit the remote, all lights flashed.

I went into the waiting room and told the flock what was about to happen to them.
As I waited several were called to and returned from the "consultation" unfleeced and chuckling.
Hah! Take that quickie fucks.

I now go to an independent shop where we all got to know each other.
So much better.

[Autorice]

I don't trust OK Tires either. My family always got our tires from the same place and then one day he says my old C240 needs new brakes and gave me a printed out quote sheet of $2000+ and told me I'd be saving a ton if I did it right now vs going to the dealer. I took it to my dealer anyways. Pads were low but rotors were ok. Charged me $400.

[Mr.C]

Good thing I do my own oil changes.

Seriously, it's not that hard, and then you can be *sure* you're not getting fucked.

[mb_]

Even when you do go to a dealership, chances are the kid doing your oil change is fresh out of high school too.

Very rarely from my experience.

Of all the dealerships that I know (that I have a "connection" to), I don't know anyone in the shop that hasn't had to go through school. The one's that I know that haven't gone through post-secondary have either been working with their dealer for quite some time or went through an Ace it program or something similar.

*my opinion is a bit biased because I've only worked at dealerships*

[Kayci]

I've heard several shops along no3 road will just drain half your oil and top the rest up with new oil.

It really isn't that hard to do most of the "basic" maintenance at home either. Even then, many times going to a dealer will only be say 20-30$ more than buying parts and doing it yourself. Better off just letting the dealer take care of it if you're tight on time or feeling lazy.

[Splinter]

Some kid fresh out of highschool is just fine to do oil changes. It's an oil change, not heart surgery. You have to start out somewhere if you want to be a mechanic, you don't just magically become one.

Kids make mistakes. Adults make mistakes. Mechanics who've been working for 30 years make mistakes. Mistakes will happen where ever you go. What really forms my opinion about a company is what they do about it when a mistake happens. I went back to an engine shop for more work after they messed up my valve lash because they made things right for me after it happened.

Don't blame the kids. Blame the managers who use them like coke mules.

[meme405]

Some kid fresh out of highschool is just fine to do oil changes. It's an oil change, not heart surgery. You have to start out somewhere if you want to be a mechanic, you don't just magically become one.

Kids make mistakes. Adults make mistakes. Mechanics who've been working for 30 years make mistakes. Mistakes will happen where ever you go. What really forms my opinion about a company is what they do about it when a mistake happens. I went back to an engine shop for more work after they messed up my valve lash because they made things right for me after it happened.

Don't blame the kids. Blame the managers who use them like coke mules.

Very true. Whats worse than them not rectifying a mistake though, is it not being a mistake in the first place. Some of these places just flat out lie and cheat to get more money out of a customer. There is no excuse for not having changed out the oil filter on someones car. You assemble the parts that you need when you start and after you go through the motions at the end when you realize "oh shit I still have the brand new oil filter" you would admit you made a foolish mistake and fix it. Yet these places continue to do this to people. So it isnt a mistake its a scam...

[Jmac]

Had an issue with Mr. Lube on Kingsway in Burnaby several years ago. They recommended that I change my air filter and fuel filter (which I had just changed myself), which made me suspicious. Asked them to show me the oil they were using; turned out to be semi-synthetic when I paid for synthetic. They refunded the difference, but I sure as fuck never went back.

[meme405]

Had an issue with Mr. Lube on Kingsway in Burnaby several years ago. They recommended that I change my air filter and fuel filter (which I had just changed myself), which made me suspicious. Asked them to show me the oil they were using; turned out to be semi-synthetic when I paid for synthetic. They refunded the difference, but I sure as fuck never went back.

Yup had a friend recently told that he had to change his fuel filter at a Mr. Lube. Phoned me and asked me, I told him to tell them to pound sand.

For the record on all infiniti models (as many as I know) fuel filters are a maintenance free item.

[E-SPEC]

The only people you can trust these days are Iranian car dealers.

[mac25]

Not all Lube shops are like that. there is a difference between upsale and recommending needed services by date and mileage where there is no visual sign of fluid failure.

as well if you service your car at multiple locations how is the tech supposed to know what's due? not every fluid discolours when due. in fact you are supposed to replace many fluids before they cause damage and before they look like shit.

case in point, a fuel filter is due at 1 to 2 years. many metal filters don't show signs of age and the plastic ones never due. so techs make recommendations based from date and mileage. if your car shows no date for the service it is recommended, even if it was replaced last month at a different shop that had a discount on fuel filters.

you can't test for fuel injector build up so that service is recommended yearly and you shouldn't wait until there are signs of clogged injectors or it can damage the pump.

differential fluid should be replaced before it shows signs of failure to avoid damaging gears. most people think "oh it doesn't look dark" even when showing other signs that it is over due like bubbling, or moisture contamination making it milky.


if you're a cheap fuc* who doesn't know a thing about cars and you go to cheap shops to get the best deal, while not keeping track of your services, don't get made at a tech who has no timeline for what you may or may not have had serviced.

find a good shop and stay with them so you and the staff know what is or is not due.

[meme405]

The only people you can trust these days are Iranian car dealers.

LOL!

Did you know I was Iranian, or are you just being an asshole?

[bcrdukes]

Well, you did say at one point your co-workers did call you a car bomb, so.....naturally people will draw to their own conclusions. :fullofwin:

[meme405]

Well, you did say at one point your co-workers did call you a car bomb, so.....naturally people will draw to their own conclusions. :fullofwin:

Lol.:nyan:

[mac25]

as well i hate people that come into my shop and ask to use their own oil or say why is "synthetic so expensive i can get that same oil at canadiantire for $38".

first off not all oil is API certified and doesn't cover warranty spec. so shops like mine who are liable to the car dealerships to use proper oil can't use your cheapo lordco oil, special additives or fluids.

or the people who come in and say "no i don't want to use synthetic 0w20 in my 2012 civic i've always used basic 15w40 in my vehicles and i want 15w40 in this one to"... lol.


now back to the price.

they complain about the oil costing double the price from canadian tire.

ok go to canadian tirebuy your oil ($38), now buy your filter ($4), now buy a wrench set ($50), now by a filter wrench ($15), and a jack set ($80)...

now go out in the cold and complete your oil change on your back for $187, then you have the right to even suggest the price is too high.

[extracrunchie]

^having tools is not a bad idea, a good investment and can be re-used again and again as a DIY'er

Lots of ignorant owners out there that don't know what they are talking about and would complain.

But there are alot of owners out there that are aware of what these shops is putting in their cars. And you can buy the same grade of oil from CT that other shops sell for more(i know german cars follow a strict grade for their vehicles and only sold at specialty shops or dealership). Its a legitimate question when they ask "why is yours more expensive?" but its ignorant of them because you are trying to run a business.

[Soundy]

I would rather pay the premium at a dealership ...
Yeah, cuz nobody calls them "stealerships" for a reason? :ilied:

[bcrdukes]

as well i hate people that come into my shop and ask to use their own oil or say why is "synthetic so expensive i can get that same oil at canadiantire for $38".

first off not all oil is API certified and doesn't cover warranty spec. so shops like mine who are liable to the car dealerships to use proper oil can't use your cheapo lordco oil, special additives or fluids.

or the people who come in and say "no i don't want to use synthetic 0w20 in my 2012 civic i've always used basic 15w40 in my vehicles and i want 15w40 in this one to"... lol.


now back to the price.

they complain about the oil costing double the price from canadian tire.

ok go to canadian tirebuy your oil ($38), now buy your filter ($4), now buy a wrench set ($50), now by a filter wrench ($15), and a jack set ($80)...

now go out in the cold and complete your oil change on your back for $187, then you have the right to even suggest the price is too high.

I'm gonna add to your list.

For those of you who live in condos, most stratas forbid tenants/owners to perform oil changes or any kind of maintenance on their vehicles within the parking garage. If/when you get caught or someone reports you, you get fined and then have to deal with the strata.

Is it worth it? Better to just pony up and pay a shop to do it. But everyone has their own set of circumstances so really, there's no right or wrong to this. Just some food for thought.

[GS8]

Welcome to the Walmart generation. Where people think they can pay almost nothing yet have almost everything. The truth is (oh God, common sense) is that the little you pay, the more likely you'll get milked elsewhere to recoup the losses the place would have if they just did your oil and sent you on your way.

Preying on the naive is never a good thing but some people just deserve it, lol.

I've learned to make friends with my service techs at my dealership. Giving donuts and coffee for example can go a long way.

[Jas29]

Mac25 why do u hate it when people ask to use their own oil
Posted via RS Mobile

[bing]

as well i hate people that come into my shop and ask to use their own oil or say why is "synthetic so expensive i can get that same oil at canadiantire for $38".

first off not all oil is API certified and doesn't cover warranty spec. so shops like mine who are liable to the car dealerships to use proper oil can't use your cheapo lordco oil, special additives or fluids.

or the people who come in and say "no i don't want to use synthetic 0w20 in my 2012 civic i've always used basic 15w40 in my vehicles and i want 15w40 in this one to"... lol.


now back to the price.

they complain about the oil costing double the price from canadian tire.

ok go to canadian tirebuy your oil ($38), now buy your filter ($4), now buy a wrench set ($50), now by a filter wrench ($15), and a jack set ($80)...

now go out in the cold and complete your oil change on your back for $187, then you have the right to even suggest the price is too high.

Those cheap asses don't have a right to complain. I only own entry level luxury but oil changes run me $140-160 per visit (where synthetic oil cost $80 and with a filter $100).

[Lomac]

Some kid fresh out of highschool is just fine to do oil changes. It's an oil change, not heart surgery. You have to start out somewhere if you want to be a mechanic, you don't just magically become one.

Kids make mistakes. Adults make mistakes. Mechanics who've been working for 30 years make mistakes. Mistakes will happen where ever you go. What really forms my opinion about a company is what they do about it when a mistake happens. I went back to an engine shop for more work after they messed up my valve lash because they made things right for me after it happened.

Don't blame the kids. Blame the managers who use them like coke mules.

Exactly.

An oil change is probably the simplest thing you can do on a car. It's not an issue if it's a kid still in high school changing it. After all, it's one bolt in the oil pan and the fill cap in the engine bay. Hell, my roommate's 8 year old daughter changed the oil in my car one day (with supervision of course, but the point is there).

As for upselling, well think of it like the dollar menu at any fast food restaurant. They're there to draw you in with cheap food, but then they'll ask if you want cheese or fries or if you want to upsize your meal. They may lose money on the initial purchase but they'll then hopefully make money once you decide to go with a coolant flush or something else.

I'll admit I've been told that certain fluids are "bad," even though I knew for a fact that they were still good (one quick lube place even showed me a "sample" of my coolant colouring... which was funny because I was running Honda's blue coolant and the sample was a dirty green... and another time I was running pure water and the sample again was green :lol) but I'll simply tell them no thanks. On the other hand, I've been to quick lube places where they'll first ask me if I knew when the last time certain fluids were changed and they simply told me the recommended intervals and to come back if I'd ever like to get them done there. No scams, no "samples," no nothing.

But if you're looking to just get an oil change and know how to say no to the things they try to upsell you on, I have no problem with going to a quick lube place.

[extracrunchie]

Mac25 why do u hate it when people ask to use their own oil
Posted via RS Mobile

Because the customers don't bring in the correct spec oil(oil weight or API standards) and his shop is liable for it.

I am sure if the customer bring in the correct oil, hes more than willing to complete the oil change.

[bensta]

pretty much all oil in big box stores is api certified except for some high performance racing oils (royal purple, redline oil etc). even lordco stuff is api certified...

having a bad experience with a express oil change on my first car was my first and last visit ever to an oil change place.. over torqued my drain plug, then put in a rubber plug that was just barely snug.. when i went to change the pan the next day the plug was so loose if a rock nicked it, it would have fallen out.

[Mr.C]

Video is up.

Greasy Business - Marketplace - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/episodes/2013-2014/greasy-business)

It is super shady.