[Gululu]

B.C. real estate firm looks for luxury buyers in China (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bc-real-estate-firm-looks-for-luxury-buyers-in-china/article16402404/)

Sales of high-end properties are on the upswing in the Vancouver region, spurring one of British Columbia’s leading real estate firms to search for wealthy buyers by setting up shop in China.

Dan Scarrow, vice-president of corporate strategy at Macdonald Realty Ltd., said he has heard enough anecdotal evidence of well-heeled home buyers with roots in China to make it worthwhile to invest in a Shanghai office.

In February, Mr. Scarrow will start the first of two three-month assignments in 2014 in Shanghai. After his fact-finding mission, he plans to hire Mandarin-speaking staff in China to keep the overseas branch office going.

While real estate experts have estimated the proportion of foreign buyers in the Vancouver region’s housing market at only 1 to 3 per cent, Mr. Scarrow said if the statistics were to include recent immigrants with origins in China, the influence of rich Chinese buyers would be greater, especially on single-family detached homes in pockets of Vancouver’s West Side.

Most high-end transactions occur on Vancouver’s West Side and the Municipality of West Vancouver. In the luxury market, there were 644 properties that sold for $3-million or higher in the Vancouver area last year, up 47 per cent from 439 homes that traded hands in 2012, according to data compiled by Macdonald Realty. Of homes that sold last year, there were 148 that fetched at least $5-million, compared with 107 sales in that category in 2012.

Mr. Scarrow said it is hard to determine how many of those elite sales went to recent immigrants from China, noting that the ripple effect due to an influx of new money can easily be exaggerated. Still, he believes the proportion was significantly higher than 3 per cent last year.

“There isn’t this wave of offshore investors with no ties to Canada who are coming in to buy, but the genesis of their wealth is from mainland China,” said Mr. Scarrow, a Canadian who speaks Mandarin fluently. “Most of these people land in Canada first as investor-class immigrants.”

He dismisses tales circulating of wealthy offshore buyers snapping up Vancouver properties sight unseen as false, emphasizing that he will instead seek to nurture a market in which China-Canada family ties are crucial.

The 30-year-old Mr. Scarrow said that as a product of a mixed-race marriage, he is acutely aware that the issue of foreign shoppers is a sensitive one in British Columbia. “The perception among some sellers is that mainland Chinese money is driving the luxury real estate market here,” he said.

But Mr. Scarrow cautions homeowners against hiring real estate agents based only on ethnicity, stressing that the best representatives know Vancouver’s neighbourhoods well, no matter what their race.

Mr. Scarrow’s mother, Lynn Hsu, moved in 1979 from Taiwan to Vancouver. Ms. Hsu is the president and majority owner of Macdonald Realty, which has more than 1,000 real estate agents and staff across British Columbia. Her ex-husband, Peter Scarrow, is a lawyer who has worked in Asia for the past dozen years, including advising wealthy Chinese on Canadian immigration and tax rules.

Dan Scarrow said there will be opportunities to tap into the Chinese market during his stay in Shanghai. Besides seeking contacts who are interested in single-family residential properties, he will be on the lookout for investors in Vancouver’s commercial real estate market and also new condo projects.


:awwyeah:

[shawnly1000]

lol...all I got from this was another real estate pump article in main stream media


also, there's already an active real estate thread

[duc_evo_sp]

I believe that China has capital controls so Chinese investors have very little opportunity to invest internationally.

[!LittleDragon]

Looking to local media about real estate is kinda like asking the tobacco companies if smoking causes cancer.

[320icar]

What, am i supposed to be surprised?? How the eff is this news worthy
Posted via RS Mobile

[Carl Johnson]

You wonder why these rich Chinese would want to come to Canada in the first place. The investors who came here in the last 2-3 years already lost tons of money just in exchange rate along. CAD/CNY is hitting all time low. Also, a lot of these rich Chinese are probably fooled by the scenery and life-style while not realizing the stringent tax policy this country enforces when you become a resident or citizen. Canada tax your global income. So if you are getting business income, rent payment and stock capital gains in China you have to pay taxes in Canada. And lastly, BC barely had any employment growth in the last few years. Oh sure I understand these Bentley-driving rich people don't have to work but why are they putting money in a stagnant economy is beyond me.

[noclue]

You wonder why these rich Chinese would want to come to Canada in the first place. The investors who came here in the last 2-3 years already lost tons of money just in exchange rate along. CAD/CNY is hitting all time low. Also, a lot of these rich Chinese are probably fooled by the scenery and life-style while not realizing the stringent tax policy this country enforces when you become a resident or citizen. Canada tax your global income. So if you are getting business income, rent payment and stock capital gains in China you have to pay taxes in Canada. And lastly, BC barely had any employment growth in the last few years. Oh sure I understand these Bentley-driving rich people don't have to work but why are they putting money in a stagnant economy is beyond me.

I think they dont care if they lose money as long as they can get it out of China. As for tax, typically the father who is the main income earner is not a resident/citizen but the wife and kids usually are. I heard that if they have kids/wife aboard they can wire money out of China relatively easily.

[Mr.HappySilp]

You wonder why these rich Chinese would want to come to Canada in the first place. The investors who came here in the last 2-3 years already lost tons of money just in exchange rate along. CAD/CNY is hitting all time low. Also, a lot of these rich Chinese are probably fooled by the scenery and life-style while not realizing the stringent tax policy this country enforces when you become a resident or citizen. Canada tax your global income. So if you are getting business income, rent payment and stock capital gains in China you have to pay taxes in Canada. And lastly, BC barely had any employment growth in the last few years. Oh sure I understand these Bentley-driving rich people don't have to work but why are they putting money in a stagnant economy is beyond me.

Why would they care as long as they can find a way to get their money out of China. Beside a good number of these money is illegal anyways so losing a bit in exchange rate but able to use them freely is well worth it.

[Carl Johnson]

Explain to me why do the rich Chinese have the need to move money out of the country? It would seem to me there are far more opportunities in a 7.7% Chinese economy than our crap 1.7% Canadian economy. If anything they have their kids learn proper Chinese because they are going to need it more than English for this century.

[ShadowBun]

Illegal $...
Use it or lose it

[Carl Johnson]

Frankly, I just don't buy this illegal money argument unless you have some data to back up this claim. Not everyone is an angel in Canada just so you know. I am saying I just don't see a whole lot of reasons for well-off Chinese to come to Vancouver either to live or just to invest. Of course this runs contrary all the self-serving real estate agents, insurance brokers, and wealth management bankers would want you to think.

[pastarocket]

It's more than just about rich Chinese moving their money out of China. I think that some
of these wealthy Chinese families immigrate to China because
the strengths of Canada help build a brighter future
for the second generation kids of the rich parents. We have a high quality post secondary education compared to
China. Chinese students who graduate from a Canadian university get higher paying jobs than students graduating from Chinese universities.
There's the appeal of a healthier living environment in Canada than China. Things like clean water and air that we take for granted in Vancouver and Lower Mainland are rare in China.
Just google "smog in China" to see the pictures of
the horrible air pollution in big cities like Shanghai and Bejing.

China may have a faster growing economy than Canada. However, that country
is paying a huge price in terms of environmental
destruction.

If you come from a wealthy family
in China, would you want a healthier living environment and better education for your children elsewhere?
Hell yeah! They can afford it. That's why they choose Canada, in particular Vancouver, the lower mainland.
It's partly about a healthier living environment and better education for family members.
Posted via RS Mobile

[ShadowBun]

^ a lot of that definitely.
A few of family friends are quite rich, and honestly, not 100% of their $ is clean.
They all moved their wife and children here (or the US) for reasons above.

Obviously there's dirt in every country. There's also the 'catching' of corrupts in China lately. Who knows, I'm poor atm.
Take it as a grain of salt

[Mr.HappySilp]

Explain to me why do the rich Chinese have the need to move money out of the country? It would seem to me there are far more opportunities in a 7.7% Chinese economy than our crap 1.7% Canadian economy. If anything they have their kids learn proper Chinese because they are going to need it more than English for this century.

Illegal money and also political issues is very unstable in China. You could get arrested tomorrow with some BS excuse all because someone with more power doesn't like you.

Not to mention the Chinese gov put very strict restriction on money moving out of the country.

One important thing is that in China there isn't any real freedom. The rich parents want their kids to grow up in a more educated society with better education and a better life.

[RFlush]

Canada does not tax global income to Canadian citizens who are non residents, unlike the us.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Qmx323]

Obvious this doesn't fully represent the facts

but, do you want this?

19875

OR

19876

[Carl Johnson]

Illegal money and also political issues is very unstable in China. You could get arrested tomorrow with some BS excuse all because someone with more power doesn't like you.

Not to mention the Chinese gov put very strict restriction on money moving out of the country.

One important thing is that in China there isn't any real freedom. The rich parents want their kids to grow up in a more educated society with better education and a better life.

I think if you go to China and talk to people then you'll realize they don't care as much about voting rights or human rights like we do here in this country. All they want is a responsible and responsive Chinese government. And I question if our education system is really better than China's. There are a lot of aspiring Chinese universities that are spending huge amount of money attracting scholars from around the world. You are going to start seeing more Chinese institutions on all the different rankings for universities in this decade.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

cuz you can own property here... lol

what u gonna do... buy (lease) something in china and then what? lol.

[J____]

Corruption is a part of life here in China. 90% of my clients ask for a 'kick back' in order to do business with me. I'm so used to it now in the last 2 years of being here (1 year working in a multi-billion dollar corporation and 1 year running my own business) that I automatically include a percentage in my quote for this commission. When I was working for the corporation in the 1st year, EVERYONE siphon money if they are in a position that allows them to do so, from high level executives to even the fucking janitor! It's horrible but you can easily see why, people's wages are so low and turn over so high that they really have no other choice. I was getting almost 3x the salary than some of the high level execs that was 2 ranks above me simply because I hired as a foreigner, but their net 'earnings' were double mine.

From my personal business' point of view, there's good and bad in this. Good part is it's easy to get the clients highest budget if you know how to talk. Simply put, tell them if they give me the case for their highest budget, they'll get the maximum commission. No negotiating and guessing back and forth on a hidden budget.

Bad side is that everyone you work with is focused on how to maximize the under the table money to actually focus and produce any good work.

All in all, with all this gray cash going around, of course the Chinese are going to invest outside the country any chance they can. Who knows when the government will turn and once again claim all the wealthy citizens' hard earned money like 50 years ago?

[$_$]

Frankly, I just don't buy this illegal money argument unless you have some data to back up this claim. Not everyone is an angel in Canada just so you know. I am saying I just don't see a whole lot of reasons for well-off Chinese to come to Vancouver either to live or just to invest. Of course this runs contrary all the self-serving real estate agents, insurance brokers, and wealth management bankers would want you to think.

I don't know if you have ever lived in China or SE Asia, or anywhere that is third world for that matter, but everyone there wants to move to the west because it's glamorized and for good reason. The people of the West have it easy, and while stress is subjective standards of living is not. Couple that with the fact that when you have higher educated citezens you will a more higher functioning society. Living in China is like living in a zoo sometimes.

I think if you go to China and talk to people then you'll realize they don't care as much about voting rights or human rights like we do here in this country. All they want is a responsible and responsive Chinese government. And I question if our education system is really better than China's. There are a lot of aspiring Chinese universities that are spending huge amount of money attracting scholars from around the world. You are going to start seeing more Chinese institutions on all the different rankings for universities in this decade.

Your right on some levels. Most people aren't educated enough or know enough about whats going in order to care about any of that stuff. You know why? Because people are still so dirt poor that they still have to worry about how to make enough money to feed themselves. They ain't got time to worry about politcal structures or the state of the world's financial stability and enviromental issues. They are still preoccupied with finding ways to feed themselves and put food on the table. That's most people. But the universities that you're talking about? Hells yeah those people want human rights and voting rights and democracy. With the current state of the govt, and the rampant corruption, who wouldn't want some sort of accountability or opportunity for change if they were given a choice? Most people I know are scared though. They know the government will start coming after you if you start speaking out publicly.

[FerrariEnzo]

Im surprise this wasnt done sooner... with all the mainlanders that came in before...

[Marco911]

Even if you lived abroad for most of the year, if you're supporting a spouse in Canada, your global income is taxable in Canada.

[4444]

What, am i supposed to be surprised?? How the eff is this news worthy
Posted via RS Mobile

Because Vancouver

[Hehe]

Even if you lived abroad for most of the year, if you're supporting a spouse in Canada, your global income is taxable in Canada.

Many easy ways (legally speaking) to circumvent this.

[SlySi]

cuz you can own property here... lol

what u gonna do... buy (lease) something in china and then what? lol.

Yep. You dont own in Asia.
You own here.

Also, the mentality of the rich Chinese culture.
Save the money, not only for your kids, or grand kids. But for your grand kids grand kids.
Creating the successful path throughout the family generation.

Different than other cultures. Kick your kids out of the house at 19. Spend all your money before you move on in life.

But lets not kid ourselves. The same saving asians are also balling.

[tool001]

China has been crackingdown on wealthy people..party officials..etc. getting $ out of china must have accelerated since new leader took office

[J____]

Yep. You dont own in Asia.
You own here.

Also, the mentality of the rich Chinese culture.
Save the money, not only for your kids, or grand kids. But for your grand kids grand kids.
Creating the successful path throughout the family generation.

Different than other cultures. Kick your kids out of the house at 19. Spend all your money before you move on in life.

But lets not kid ourselves. The same saving asians are also balling.

technically you only "own" property here if you pay your property tax. If you don't pay, your property eventually gets foreclosed and auctioned off.

In China the property tax is so low it's literally non existent. When you buy property it's a 70 year lease. No one knows what happens after 70 years yet.

So in reality, you don't really OWN your property in north america.

[4444]

technically you only "own" property here if you pay your property tax. If you don't pay, your property eventually gets foreclosed and auctioned off.

In China the property tax is so low it's literally non existent. When you buy property it's a 70 year lease. No one knows what happens after 70 years yet.

So in reality, you don't really OWN your property in north america.

You think having to pay property tax means u don't own something? What are you smoking?

[Carl Johnson]

Canadian loonie hit new low against Chinese RMB. Almost 20% devaluation againest RMB since the beginning of 2011. But keep buying the mega-mansions in Vancouver please.

[$_$]

Canadian loonie hit new low against Chinese RMB. Almost 20% devaluation againest RMB since the beginning of 2011. But keep buying the mega-mansions in Vancouver please.

You obviously don't understand that money ain't a thing to these people.

[Carl Johnson]

Losing 20% is not insignificant even to the riches. In terms of money, Chinese is up there with the jews.

[jackmeister]

Losing 20% is not insignificant even to the riches. In terms of money, Chinese is up there with the jews.

losing 20% on 10mil on canadian house/property but gaining 20% on 200+mil RMB in cash

thats the type of filth that's going on, mainland chinese just laughing now:devil:

[$_$]

Losing 20% is not insignificant even to the riches. In terms of money, Chinese is up there with the jews.

Again, I think you are missing the point of the difference of having your money there and having your money here.

You can take your Canadian money and move to a third world country and increase your standards of living by a huge margin - bigger house, more food and disposable income. Why don't most people do it?

The same psychology happens in reverse here. Theres a reason why rich chinese people flock by the tens of thousands out of China. Instead of trying to find reasons why they shouldn't, why don't you try to take a second and think about why they do?

These people are shitting money out of their asses right now. I don't see anybody losing any money investing in Vancouver real estate for the past little while, do you?

[Carl Johnson]

Again, I think you are missing the point of the difference of having your money there and having your money here.

You can take your Canadian money and move to a third world country and increase your standards of living by a huge margin - bigger house, more food and disposable income. Why don't most people do it?

The same psychology happens in reverse here. Theres a reason why rich chinese people flock by the tens of thousands out of China. Instead of trying to find reasons why they shouldn't, why don't you try to take a second and think about why they do?

These people are shitting money out of their asses right now. I don't see anybody losing any money investing in Vancouver real estate for the past little while, do you?

When it comes to investing I dont look in the rear-view mirror. And honestly I have zero home bias when it comes to investing as well. Why should i accept another bullshit story that is probably sponsored by RE firm to pump up Vancouver real estate.

I merely point out the things Rich Chinese should be aware of like the currency risk, taxation, and the risks of putting money in a dead BC economy that is losing tons of full-time jobs to Alberta.

[$_$]

When it comes to investing I dont look in the rear-view mirror. And honestly I have zero home bias when it comes to investing as well. Why should i accept another bullshit story that is probably sponsored by RE firm to pump up Vancouver real estate.

I merely point out the things Rich Chinese should be aware of like the currency risk, taxation, and the risks of putting money in a dead BC economy that is losing tons of full-time jobs to Alberta.

None of the Chinese come here with the explicit intention to make money. They can get better returns doing other shit in other places, at way lower costs. Making money in Canada is more like a bonus. They come to here to retire and grow the next generation of children in a better enviroment. They invest in the local economy because that's what you do when you move somewhere, yes maybe per dollar your investment yields lesser returns but there are other factors at play. You say you don't look in the rear view mirror but you're not the one developing new apartments and having them sell out before it's even built. It's like if your enviromental investment yields 5% and your BP investment yields 20%, maybe you won't but others might. Like I said, when you get to a certain level of wealth, the next dollar isn't all that matters.

[achiam]

Frankly, I just don't buy this illegal money argument unless you have some data to back up this claim. Not everyone is an angel in Canada just so you know. I am saying I just don't see a whole lot of reasons for well-off Chinese to come to Vancouver either to live or just to invest. Of course this runs contrary all the self-serving real estate agents, insurance brokers, and wealth management bankers would want you to think.

RE: Illegal China Money

I feel a lot of people here do not understand how China works, and why Vancouver is seeing what it is seeing.
As a China national, you are limited to moving the equivalent of $50,000 Canadian out of the country annually. The easy way around this, is many of them are business owners and do work-around (e.g. I own a factory in China, and I'm selling you, a customer in Germany, a product -- I charge $10, but if you send me $8, and put the other $2 in a a Swiss or Grand Cayman/BVI account, we'll settle on a lower price).
There are a lot of big company owners that fall into this somewhat legit group.

Then you have the other crazies -- people who were government authorities. You have filthy rich factories in China who pollute. You are a pollution inspector. They pay you crazy cash to shut up and approve the inspection. Etc Etc.
This latter group is probably the majority of what you see here. Given that the latest China PM has cracked down on corruption, loads of said authorities are off-loading ill-gotten properties in China, and shipping the capital out -- even if they buy the crazy cars in Vancouver and the value drops, it still retains some value. Another way is to purchase properties and soon after offload -- eventually the cash is untraceable.

How much cash is flying outta China?
China's Epic Offshore Wealth Revealed: How Chinese Oligarchs Quietly Parked Up To $4 Trillion In The Caribbean | Zero Hedge (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-21/chinas-epic-offshore-wealth-revealed-how-chinese-oligarchs-quietly-parked-4-trillion)

China luxury spending collapsing because their rich have already left China altogether:
China's Luxury Spending Falls Again as More Millionaires Look to Emigrate (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/chinas-luxury-spending-falls-again-more-millionaires-look-emigrate-1432548)

Net worth of extended family of the "Immortals" (the men who built the Communist party) -- estimated at $1.6 trillion USD (1 trillion = 1,000 billion)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-26/immortals-beget-china-capitalism-from-citic-to-godfather-of-golf.html

They are here in Vancouver, Australia, and the UK simply because it is insanely hard to get into the USA.

Ref: I have plenty of ex-Vancouver friends who run their parent's factories in China. They tell me stories daily. I also have plenty of Chartered Accountant friends sent to audit multi-national company factories in China, and know full well that whores and cash are what really keeps the officials happy. I'm sure others here can continue.

[jackmeister]

^further to that, as a Chinese National IIRC you're allowed to wire out 50K USD per year, per identification card, legitimately. Most filthy money isn't in a bank account so someone can see, track, and freeze. Instead, it goes through underground money transfer agents so it ends up outside of China. Everyone's happy.

I'm pretty sure the wealthy Chinese folks don't give a shit about jobs in BC or the economy going to shit, they're here knowing they can:
1) attain citizenship in a few years
2) evade chinese persecution for making or taking bribes (death penalty)
3) breath clean air
4) enjoy a decent standard of living regardless of income level
5) live under a somewhat more transparent set of laws.

They wouldn't be caring about taxes when the alternative could be getting all your assets taken away without trial

[Carl Johnson]

None of the Chinese come here with the explicit intention to make money. They can get better returns doing other shit in other places, at way lower costs. Making money in Canada is more like a bonus. They come to here to retire and grow the next generation of children in a better enviroment. They invest in the local economy because that's what you do when you move somewhere, yes maybe per dollar your investment yields lesser returns but there are other factors at play. You say you don't look in the rear view mirror but you're not the one developing new apartments and having them sell out before it's even built. It's like if your enviromental investment yields 5% and your BP investment yields 20%, maybe you won't but others might. Like I said, when you get to a certain level of wealth, the next dollar isn't all that matters.

I very much doubt the Chinese are simply here to live and retire like the way you put it. The Chinese have been conditioned to invest in property because that's how a lot of them got rich in China. So by simply saying making money on Vancouver real estate is just a "bonus" and not really a priority to them is a bit of stretch in my opinion. Some of them might be retiring here but most of them wants to make money in the property. So even if Vancouver RE move sideways that will hurt them because of property tax, maintenance, and the declining Canadian dollar.

With regards to better living standards here, yes I do agree it is better here right now. But when you buy a house here to live you should think 10-20 years ahead. The fact China has shit environment today is because all the manufacturing they are doing by producing low-value added goods. But that is definitely changing as China is moving away from the capital intensive manufacturing and wants to move up the food chain to get into high tech areas, so the pollution should be less and less in the future.

[xpl0sive]

^ you're still missing the point. RE is still considered a "safe" investment. The main thing they are concerned about is holding on to their "hard" earned stolen or "illegal" money. They would much rather spend $10mil here on a few properties and pay property taxes, maintenance costs, etc. than have 20% more RMB in China and risk having the Government come after them.

Maybe you just don't get the point of people being scared of their Government. Imagine that the politicians in Canada were not accountable to anyone. One day they decide that everyone who's net worth is over $10mil should be paying 50% tax to the Government or they go to jail for the rest of their life. What would you do if your net worth was over $10mil? Pay tax/go to jail? OR try get your money out ASAP?

I'm not from China, I'm from Russia, but the bottom line remains the same. Corrupt governments promote corruption on all levels. Russians have been doing the same shit as the Chinese for years, they just invest in Europe and USA.

[Carl Johnson]

^ you're still missing the point. RE is still considered a "safe" investment. The main thing they are concerned about is holding on to their "hard" earned stolen or "illegal" money. They would much rather spend $10mil here on a few properties and pay property taxes, maintenance costs, etc. than have 20% more RMB in China and risk having the Government come after them.

Maybe you just don't get the point of people being scared of their Government. Imagine that the politicians in Canada were not accountable to anyone. One day they decide that everyone who's net worth is over $10mil should be paying 50% tax to the Government or they go to jail for the rest of their life. What would you do if your net worth was over $10mil? Pay tax/go to jail? OR try get your money out ASAP?

I'm not from China, I'm from Russia, but the bottom line remains the same. Corrupt governments promote corruption on all levels. Russians have been doing the same shit as the Chinese for years, they just invest in Europe and USA.

First of all, RE is not a safe investment because it is just another financial asset that will move with respect to interest rate and general trends of a country's economy. Secondly, you just don't get the effect of compounding do you? China has been growing double digits for the last 20 years. That means people's living standards is doubling every 5-7 years. There were almost no Chinese billionaire just 10 years ago, now they are buying up assets all over the world. I know it is difficult for a lot of people in the west to accept the fact that China has emerged as a super power because it changes to power balance. But don't resort to silly argument like that most wealth accumulated by wealthy Chinese is "illegal money" when you really have no idea what is actually happening on the ground.

[xpl0sive]

The people who are getting money OUT of China are not concerned about growth. They've already made their millions, legally or illegally. Now they want to get it OUT of China. It doesn't matter if Chinese economy is growing "double digits" and the Canadian economy remaining flat. They don't care if they make money from their investment. They care about keeping the money they already have. And in Canada that's a lot easier than in China

[minoru_tanaka]

You think having to pay property tax means u don't own something? What are you smoking?

Makes you think though, here we have eminent domain where the govt can just take your land if they see fit.

Meanwhile in communist China an old man says I'm not leaving so this happen

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236746-1629F95A000005DC-643_964x569.jpg

[RFlush]

Rich Chinese continue to flee China (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101345275)

Rich chinese leaving China

[4444]

Makes you think though, here we have eminent domain where the govt can just take your land if they see fit.

Meanwhile in communist China an old man says I'm not leaving so this happen

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236746-1629F95A000005DC-643_964x569.jpg

I'm actually shocked this happened, and the government didn't just 'remove' him. Canada has some of the best protections for citizen's rights re: protection of assets. Thankfully we have a 'fair' legal system where we should get fair market value plus a small inconvenience premium (built into the fmv via the forced sale) if forced to move.

I'd never buy real estate in a country where I think I don't have full rights to value (though I don't own in Canada, due to my belief our valuations are nuts and will revert)

[StylinRed]

Makes you think though, here we have eminent domain where the govt can just take your land if they see fit.

Meanwhile in communist China an old man says I'm not leaving so this happen

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/22/article-2236746-1629F95A000005DC-643_964x569.jpg

its a toss up though you may get a local govt. that decides its a good idea to let you keep your place but make it inhospitable as possible or that same local govt. will decide to send in a gang to beat everyone out of the area and those who don't leave will die when the bulldozers come through next
so that's not exactly a great example

[willystyle]

But don't resort to silly argument like that most wealth accumulated by wealthy Chinese is "illegal money" when you really have no idea what is actually happening on the ground.
The Chinese Central Government is cracking down on bribery (illegal business dealings). Those who have a basic understanding of Chinese business relationships and practices would know that in order to be financially successful, you need to bribe, and that happens on all levels of exchanges. The Chinese call it "Guanxi" (Guanxi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), without this basic concept, you will not succeed in China. If you were the Central government, you would obviously work your way from the top to bottom, hence why the super wealthy Chinese are leaving for overseas, re-distributing their wealth, regardless of whether they make a ROI (Return-on-investment) or not.

[bing]

It's Asia, you need connections to get things done. Imagine engaging in commercial activity in a country where they can shut your operations down for no real reason (i.e. they can just make shit up) unless you are a joint venture or something. In many cases you need to bribe. For example, even when you use middlemen to secure a contract, they may later come to you and say you won but only because they agreed to pay in essence a bribe (my brother worked at a prestigious architecture firm based in NY but had an office in China that designed huge projects like hospitals and hotels and this is what he told me). That is just how it is. Connections and "gifting" is an accepted part of the current business environment unless you have a relative who is at least a mid-tier government official who can approve your projects / keep things running smooth.

[Mr.C]

First of all, RE is not a safe investment because it is just another financial asset that will move with respect to interest rate and general trends of a country's economy. Secondly, you just don't get the effect of compounding do you? China has been growing double digits for the last 20 years. That means people's living standards is doubling every 5-7 years. There were almost no Chinese billionaire just 10 years ago, now they are buying up assets all over the world. I know it is difficult for a lot of people in the west to accept the fact that China has emerged as a super power because it changes to power balance. But don't resort to silly argument like that most wealth accumulated by wealthy Chinese is "illegal money" when you really have no idea what is actually happening on the ground.

You don't get it, do you?

The point isn't to 'invest'. The point is to park your money in a place where the government is somewhat stable and won't seize all your assets. Rich Brazilians do that in the US and Europe, like the Russians. While our government isn't like China, they've been known to do fucked up things, like when a President seized all savings accounts over X amount. he was impeached, but is now a senator. The BRIC is all fucked up, and the wealthy are moving their money out.

[Carl Johnson]

You don't get it, do you?

The point isn't to 'invest'. The point is to park your money in a place where the government is somewhat stable and won't seize all your assets. Rich Brazilians do that in the US and Europe, like the Russians. While our government isn't like China, they've been known to do fucked up things, like when a President seized all savings accounts over X amount. he was impeached, but is now a senator. The BRIC is all fucked up, and the wealthy are moving their money out.

When was the last time communist party of china confiscated people's money when the money was legit? I think you are brainwashed like the typical westerner that think all wealthy people in China got their money illegally really your motive just trying to marginalize their success. Oh sure you need connections to do business in China, but is that just isolated in China and not other countries? Hell no. The BRI might be fucked but the C - China - is in a league of its own.

[Mr.C]

When was the last time communist party of china confiscated people's money when the money was legit? I think you are brainwashed like the typical westerner that think all wealthy people in China got their money illegally really your motive just trying to marginalize their success. Oh sure you need connections to do business in China, but is that just isolated in China and not other countries? Hell no. The BRI might be fucked but the C - China - is in a league of its own.

Please show me where I said 'all'. I'll wait.

I grew up in a country that operates *exactly* how China is described, with the exception that in the last fifty years, it was governed by a military junta for twenty years and really corrupt democratic presidents for the following thirty.

You look like you ignored what I wrote; I said that in third world countries, you cannot be wealthy and squeaky clean. It does not happen. Some of your money will be dirty.

But that's not the point. The point is that even if the money is legit, you don't trust your government, and especially not the CCC, which has a history of executing people who fall out of favour. You park your money in a stable North American or European country, so you have a place to go to if shit goes south.

[NKC ONE]

A lot of you guys speak like you actually do business in China...how many of you actually do?

[Mr.C]

A lot of you guys speak like you actually do business in China...how many of you actually do?

I don't, but I do business in a country that is structured exactly like China and Russia and where the same shit goes down. It's just the way it is.