[godwin]

Illegal downloaders in federal court?s crosshairs (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/personal-tech/Illegal+downloaders+federal+court+crosshairs/9533007/story.html)

Order to release names, addresses of suspected ‘pirates’ could affect millions

By Gillian Shaw, Vancouver Sun February 20, 2014

Illegal downloaders in federal court’s crosshairs

In a groundbreaking decision released Thursday by Canada’s Federal Court, the Internet service provider TekSavvy Solutions was ordered to release to Voltage Pictures LLC the names and addresses of more than 2,000 Internet users suspected of pirating movies.
Photograph by: JONATHAN HAYWARD , THE CANADIAN PRESS

Canadians who illegally download music, movies and other copyright material may no longer be able to hide from potential lawsuits.

In a groundbreaking decision released Thursday by Canada’s Federal Court, the Internet service provider TekSavvy Solutions was ordered to release to Voltage Pictures LLC the names and addresses of more than 2,000 Internet users suspected of pirating movies. Voltage is a Hollywood production company that has made films including The Hurt Locker, which won six Oscars, and the upcoming American Heist.

While the decision relates to movies, it could affect millions of Canadians who listen to pirated music on their iPods or download pirated TV shows onto hard drives.

The decision, which comes eight months after the case was heard in Montreal, takes away a shield that Canadians have enjoyed but Americans lost long ago — being able to hide behind an Internet Protocol address. The IP address is the only link forensic software companies in Canada had to identify illegal downloaders.

The Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic intervened in the case, arguing that “privacy considerations and broader interests of justice should prevail.”

Thursday’s ruling would give copyright holders the ability to identify copyright infringers and use that information to enforce their copyright. In the mid-2000s in the United States, parents, college students and others were surprised by notices of expensive lawsuits over illegal downloading. In one of the recent successful prosecutions, a Minnesota woman was ordered in September 2012 to pay damages of US$220,000 over 24 illegally downloaded songs.

The court ruling ordered TekSavvy to release the names and addresses of subscribers linked to IP addresses suspected of illegal downloading. That means if your kids, your tenants, or anyone else using your Internet connection is illegally downloading digital files, you could be held liable.

“CIPPIC characterizes Voltage and Canipre Inc. (Canipre), the forensic investigation company retailed by Voltage to track the names of the Subscribers, as “copyright trolls” engaged in “speculative invoicing” which seeks to intimidate individuals into easy settlements by way of demand letter and threats of litigation,” the judgment read. “It is alleged that the cost and the uncertainty or stigma of litigation coerces most individuals into making payments, whether or not they were involved in the unauthorized copying and distribution of films on the Internet.”

The court decision, in which Voltage Pictures LLC took TekSavvy to court to force it to produce the names, is related to more than 2,000 subscribers. But Canipre, the Montreal-based forensics software company that identified the suspected illegal downloads, has files on more than five million Canadians who have been illegally downloading copyright material — including many in British Columbia.

“What is important is that the court has decided that infringers, pirates and digital content thieves can’t expect to hide behind the anonymity of an ISP,” said Barry Logan, managing director of Canipre. “A user can’t expect they have a level of shielding with their IP address. Their ISP will be ordered to release information as to who that IP address belongs to.

“It’s an important decision for copyright holders.”

Logan’s company has collected the IP addresses of five million Canadian who are engaged in peer-to-peer file sharing and have downloaded from BitTorrent sites. In Canada, people held liable for illegal downloading could face statutory damages of up to $5,000.

Under Bill C-11, Canada’s Copyright Modernization Act rights holders have been able to send copyright infringement notices to Internet providers, who in turn notify subscribers linked to the IP address. Many of these notices have been dismissed by subscribers since up until now, their names and addresses have not been available to the rights holders.

The latest Federal Court decision means that instead of a warning letter, Canadians could find themselves liable for statutory damages.

gshaw@vancouversun.com

vancouversun.com/digitallife
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun

[Harvey Specter]

Good.

They should now go after all the illegal iptv boxes been sold in south Asian stores which not only air pirated south Asian channels but also english channels and movies. It's not fair to content producers who are already struggling to make a buck have their hard work pirated and have others profit from it.

[Ch28]

Good.

They should now go after all the illegal iptv boxes been sold in south Asian stores which not only air pirated south Asian channels but also english channels and movies. It's not fair to content producers who are already struggling to make a buck have their hard work pirated and have others profit from it.

http://i.imgur.com/WB20CKT.gif

[MG1]

I've got nothing to worry about, I don't even download music unless I pay for it. Not because of fear of getting caught, but because it is just wrong.

It's too bad jail term or being fined is the only way to stop thieves. Parents, teach your children right from wrong and be a good role model. If everyone did that, this world would be a better place.

/sermon

[Bouncing Bettys]

Copyright laws will need a massive overhaul before I'm ready to condem piracy.

[dangonay]

As someone who worked over 15 years developing software I have a strong dislike for assholes who think it's OK to steal others IP simply because it's not a physical product.

[Acura604]

Michael Geist - Downloading Decision: Federal Court Establishes New Safeguards on Disclosures in File Sharing Suits (http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/7075/125/)


Downloading Decision: Federal Court Establishes New Safeguards on Disclosures in File Sharing Suits



Thursday February 20, 2014

The federal court has released its much anticipated decision in Voltage Pictures v. Does, a case involving demands that TekSavvy, a leading independent ISP, disclose the identities of roughly 2,000 subscribers alleged to have downloaded movies without authorization. The case attracted significant attention for several reasons: it is the first major "copyright troll" case in Canada involving Internet downloading (the recording industry previously tried unsuccessfully to sue 29 alleged file sharers), the government sought to discourage these file sharing lawsuits against individuals by creating a $5,000 liability cap for non-commercial infringement, TekSavvy ensured that affected subscribers were made aware of the case and CIPPIC intervened to ensure the privacy issues were considered by the court. Copies of all the case documents can be found here.

The court set the tone for the decision by opening with the following quote from a U.S. copyright case:

"the rise of so-called 'copyright trolls' - plaintiffs who file multitudes of lawsuits solely to extort quick settlements - requires courts to ensure that the litigation process and their scarce resources are not being abused."

The court was clearly sensitive to the copyright troll concern, noting that "given the issues in play the answers require a delicate balancing of privacy rights versus the rights of copyright holders. This is especially so in the context of modern day technology and users of the Internet."

So how did the court strike the balance?

In short, by issuing a split decision. The court ruled that Voltage Pictures had met the legal standard for an order to disclose subscriber names and addresses, but it established a series of conditions and protections that extend far beyond previous cases. The conditions include court oversight of the "demand letter" that will be sent to subscribers, with a Case Management Judge assigned to review and approve its contents before being sent to any subscriber. Moreover, the letter must include a message in bold type that "no Court has yet made a determination that such subscriber has infringed or is liable in any way for payment of damages."

The win for Voltage Pictures is the order to disclose the subscriber names and addresses. The court felt bound by the Federal Court of Appeal Sony BMG case, which established that a "bona fide" claim is the standard needed for a court order (CIPPIC had argued for a higher "prima facie" standard). The court found that Voltage met the bona fide standard based on its statement of claim.

While Voltage argued that should be the end of the issue and privacy issues should not be a concern, the court was extremely troubled by the prospect of copyright trolling. It stated:

"This [Voltage's position] would be an acceptable position but for the spectre raised of the 'copyright troll' as it applies to these cases and the mischief that is created by compelling the TekSavvy's of the world to reveal private information about their customers. There is also the very real spectre of flooding the Court with an enormous number of cases involving the subscribers many of whom have perfectly good defences to the alleged infringement. Finally, the damages against individual subscribers even on a generous consideration of the Copyright Act damage provisions may be miniscule compared to the cost, time and effort in pursuing a claim against the subscriber."

Having cited the dangers of copyright trolling (and noted the limited damages available in these cases), the court canvassed the caselaw in the U.S. and the U.K. and identified principles that go beyond prior Canadian caselaw. First, where there is compelling evidence of "improper motive" of a plaintiff, the court might consider denying the motion entirely. Second, if such evidence is unavailable, there are numerous safeguards that can be established.

In this case, the court ruled that there is some evidence that Voltage has been engaged in litigation which may have an improper purposes, but not enough to deny the motion altogether. Instead, the court ordered release of the subscriber names and addresses with the following safeguards:
•the case will be managed by a Case Management Judge
•TekSavvy will only disclose subscriber name and address information
•Voltage will pay all reasonable legal costs incurred by TekSavvy before the release of any information
•the demand letter to subscribers will include a copy of the court order and "clearly state in bold type that no court has yet made a determination that such subscriber has infringed or is liable in any way for payment of damages"
•the contents of the demand letter will be approved by the parties (including CIPPIC) and the Case Management Judge
•any further cases brought against subscribers will also be case managed
•the information released by TekSavvy will remain confidential, will not be disclosed to other parties, and will not be used for other purposes. The information will not be disclosed to the general public or the media.
The safeguards are significant, since they ensure the active involvement of the courts in the sending of demand letters and likely eliminate unwarranted scare tactics about potential liability. Moreover, given the cap on liability and the increased legal costs the court involvement will create (not to mention paying legal fees for the ISP), it calls into question whether copyright trolling litigation is economically viable in Canada. The federal court was clearly anxious to discourage such tactics and its safeguards certainly make such actions less likely.

[StylinRed]

As someone who worked over 15 years developing software I have a strong dislike for assholes who think it's OK to steal others IP simply because it's not a physical product.

do you believe exposure of your product is better than no exposure?

i'd argue that piracy exposes your product to the masses and that is a positive that's why companies release trials/free versions/ betas/ etc. The more people know about it, talk about it, recommend it, etc. which will drive sales since not everyone pirates

do you believe those who pirate your product would actually buy it if they had no choice?

experience suggests no most people would just go looking for something else or the cheapest alternative

do you believe that all those whom pirate your product never end up paying for it?

facts say people who pirate also buy and even buy what they've pirated. increased ticket sales for movies The Most Pirated Movies of 2013 ? And Why Piracy Isn't Hurting the Box Office | Underwire | Wired.com (http://www.wired.com/underwire/2014/01/most-pirated-films-2013/) (can't find the original study which showed the connection but there's an article discussing the same thing)

Japan also found piracy ended up driving up export sales for their content to countries where said content was never available RIETI - Do Illegal Copies of Movies Reduce the Revenue of Legal Products? The case of TV animation in Japan (http://www.rieti.go.jp/en/publications/summary/11010021.html).

Experience has also shown that those who pirate do pay for some/all of what they've pirated. For me i'd dl a blu-ray or songs before they're released retail because i want my product ASAP and then I buy the product when it finally hits shelves.

not to say that piracy doesn't poorly affect content producers but rather that the piracy issue isn't completely bad and in some cases is a positive

[BrRsn]

Good.

They should now go after all the illegal iptv boxes been sold in south Asian stores which not only air pirated south Asian channels but also english channels and movies. It's not fair to content producers who are already struggling to make a buck have their hard work pirated and have others profit from it.

Yeah man, fuck those IPTV boxes.

By the way, which south asian stores sell these?
Feel free to PM me, I am going to undertake a personal investigation.

[Ball.J.Inder]

Yeah, piracy is 100% wrong but I do it.

The reason? Software is released incomplete but still costs tonnes of money, if gaming companies don't want to spend money on proper testing and also charge people $20 extra for a DLC to fix the product then I think I have a right, atleast ethically, to try out the product before I decide to spend such huge amount of money.

[320icar]

I download lots of stuff. All shit i would never have bought in the first place, so no they are NOT losing money. They are gaining exposure
Posted via RS Mobile

[Matlock]

I will not buy if I cannot try.

[twitchyzero]

I will buy movies if they are good...I never buy without seeing it first
I always buy games
most of my music is streamed
netflix should release shows the same time as they broadcast/air...UK netflix only takes 1 day but it takes like half a year in the US/Canada

[white rocket]

I used to see at least 1 or 2 movies a week in the theater back in the day so I've purchased my fair share of tickets. Most movies suck nowadays but if I like it after watching then I'll buy it on BluRay. Theaters are packed nowadays and it's annoying. I've purchased thousands upon thousands of CD's over the years(mostly 90's) to the point that I feel I've paid my dues. Even old high school buddies would bring it up in conversation today. I would buy a few each week then hit Bellis Fair on the weekends for the "import" stuff that was $40 each at any local music store. Most stuff is available on the artists website nowadays anyway and if I like the artist I'll buy t-shirts and, more importantly, go see them live. I do not, however, download any programs or video games. Everything I've owned in that department I have purchased legitimately.

Interesting points StylinRed :notbad:

[duy-]

if they just made it easier for the user to access, piracy wouldn't be a huge deal. Apple makes downloading music ridiculously easy and cheap, makes me more inclined to just hit 3 buttons on my phone and own the songs I like to listen to. I'm sure netflix would be it's movie / shows counterpart but it doesn't give you that unlimited access of whatever you want. imagine if piratebay became government owned, then started charging 99cents per download, no accounts, automatically to your Internet bill, would you still use it?
Posted via RS Mobile

[m3thods]

As someone who downloaded pirated software quite a bit back in the day and later found himself in the software industry, I don't find myself downloading software anymore. I've either found open-source projects that provide for my needs, or pay for software that I need and use.

For movies though, like many of you have said- I would never buy a movie that I was going to watch potentially once. If I download an unknown movie and end up loving it, it'll find it's way in my library.

I wonder why HBO doesn't raise a stink regarding their highly-pirated shows. GoT is consistently the highest-pirated show these past few years, yet I never hear about them going after seeders. If anything, they seem to almost take it as a badge of honour, as one of you suggested.

I guess I'll stop downloading movies soon. Sucks for studios as I'll pretty much end up watching movies that appeal to me, or are "must-watch" blockbusters.

[vafanculo]

I can't stand people that say "I download it to see if I like it. If I do, I buy it".

B.S.

How many of the free content you've stolen have you purchased? Do you stop watching/listening and delete the content half way in if you don't like it? Or do you just stick around for the ending? Can you walk into a McDonald's, order a number 3, and only pay for it if you enjoy it?

I can see why record/movie companies are doing this. Making a movie is serious business. It costs money. They don't do it to be nice so we can watch it for free.

P.s

I also download. I don't need to justify it though. I do it for the same reason other people do. Its at arms length and even better, costs nothing.
Posted via RS Mobile

[snails]

I can't stand people that say "I download it to see if I like it. If I do, I buy it".
[/i][/size]

:suspicious:

i dont remember the last time i have pirated something, but i do online stream occasionally when i cant find it for rent in the play store "if movie"

and i buy plenty of movies i actually liked the first time i saw them either streamed, at a friends or movie theater.

im sure many others do this as well

[godwin]

I don't think C11 covers devices, but with this ruling I can see the owners of those boxes can be held liable. I would wager the manufacturer of those boxes won't obfuscate the traffic. So I suspect the sellers of those boxes can get away with it.

As for the copyright holders for the south Asian channels, they can make a claim is if they have representation in Canada or North America.

Good.

They should now go after all the illegal iptv boxes been sold in south Asian stores which not only air pirated south Asian channels but also english channels and movies. It's not fair to content producers who are already struggling to make a buck have their hard work pirated and have others profit from it.

[godwin]

I don't see why you need to stop now, since they already have you on the record.

I would say compare with the US precedents, 5k ceiling is actually really low.


I guess I'll stop downloading movies soon. Sucks for studios as I'll pretty much end up watching movies that appeal to me, or are "must-watch" blockbusters.

[Matlock]

Many years ago I would download PC games and spend hours and hours to simply download and install a crack. It's a lot of work to get pirated games to work with all the different patches and cracks. Sometimes more work than to just buy the game.

There are a lot of shitty games out there that expect you to shell out $40 to $60 when they first come out. In the past I would go out of my way to pirate the game even if the cracked version is only half functional to see if it is actually worth the money.

In present time I just buy all of them off of steam sales because it is convenient for me. I have also purchased my favorite games that I have pirated in the past.

In the past I would pirate games, play them half way then uninstall and delete them.
Now I pay to play them half way then uninstall and delete them.
If these companies want to get rid of piracy, start by making it more convenient and accessible for the consumer.

[Iceman-19]

I looked at the list of movies Voltage Productions has done. I might be on that list. :S The did the Hurt Locker, which was a stellar movie. Pretty sure I saw that in theatres, then later downloaded it as well. Half the shows they produce are garbage not worth paying for.

[StylinRed]

I can't stand people that say "I download it to see if I like it. If I do, I buy it".

B.S.

How many of the free content you've stolen have you purchased? Do you stop watching/listening and delete the content half way in if you don't like it? Or do you just stick around for the ending? Can you walk into a McDonald's, order a number 3, and only pay for it if you enjoy it?

the stats and research shows that people do "buy it" though, so you can't call bs
also yes you can walk into a mcdonalds order a number 3 and only pay for it if you enjoy it. that is you can return it, In fact you can even get a free meal even if you've finished your meal!

[Lomac]

Here's a question then... For those who feel downloading content is wrong, how about buying used movies or games from a store like Willowvideo? The movie or game studio doesn't see another dime from that disc after the initial purchase, regardless how many times it's sold and traded in.

[Mr.HappySilp]

By the time the gov catch up there will be other ways to download movies. As for myself. I mostly download movies that I already watch in the theater. Already paid for it so why should I pay another $20 to $30 again? If it is $5 then sure I don't mind paying for it.

There are tons of apps on itunes and google play store that stream movies/TV shows for free even websites that streams them.

Here is the thing $20 to $30 dollars for DVD is expensive and to be honest not a lot of people have DVD/Blue Ray player. It makes more sense for movie company to start a streaming service like Netflix or lower their prices.

[snails]

By the time the gov catch up there will be other ways to download movies. As for myself. I mostly download movies that I already watch in the theater. Already paid for it so why should I pay another $20 to $30 again? If it is $5 then sure I don't mind paying for it.

There are tons of apps on itunes and google play store that stream movies/TV shows for free even websites that streams them.

Here is the thing $20 to $30 dollars for DVD is expensive and to be honest not a lot of people have DVD/Blue Ray player. It makes more sense for movie company to start a streaming service like Netflix or lower their prices.

i plug my s4 into my tv and rent movies for like 5$ on playstore.. unless the movie cant be rented :(

works quite well though!

[El Bastardo]

if they just made it easier for the user to access, piracy wouldn't be a huge deal. Apple makes downloading music ridiculously easy and cheap, makes me more inclined to just hit 3 buttons on my phone and own the songs I like to listen to. I'm sure netflix would be it's movie / shows counterpart but it doesn't give you that unlimited access of whatever you want. imagine if piratebay became government owned, then started charging 99cents per download, no accounts, automatically to your Internet bill, would you still use it?
Posted via RS Mobile



How is it not easy to access? Goddamn. During the days of VHS and DVD if you wanted to see a movie and drove across town to Blockbuster only to find all the copies were rented you had to get back in your car, drive over to Rogers Video to see if it was there. If it was gone you had to go to that skeezy neighbourhood store with the sticky floors and the smell of sour meat as a last resort. Then when you were done you had to drive that shit back there.
If you find that pressing more than three buttons on your phone to watch Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2 is a challenge, you clearly don't remember the days of standing in line at the video store where a child in a stroller is screaming its head off because mommy wouldn't rent all of the videos her precious little snowflake wanted. You don't remember getting up to the counter while the stoned teenager tries to figure out how to make the computerized rental system work. You don't remember getting home with the copy of the movie you really wanted to see, popping it into the DVD tray, only to find it doesn't work because someone has scratched "Peter <3s Tara 4 EVA" into the silver side.

I remember having to drive 45 mins to the next town over to buy a CD on release day because my shitty home town's only music store didn't order it in time.

Dude, you can literally pay a fraction of what you would have to invest in time and transportation costs to go get your media. You can wake up, sit on the couch in your goddamned undies, and buy only the tracks you want from an album on release day instead of being burdened with a shitty $15 piece of plastic full of filler tracks and two radio hits.

How much easier does it have to be for the user to access? If spending 5 solid minutes (literally 300 seconds) pulling out your credit card or debit card, loading the URL of the media provider, and transcribing your information into their purchase submission form is too difficult for you, I feel bad for the medical support worker who has to change your bedpan.

[Iceman-19]

By the time the gov catch up there will be other ways to download movies. As for myself. I mostly download movies that I already watch in the theater. Already paid for it so why should I pay another $20 to $30 again? If it is $5 then sure I don't mind paying for it.

There are tons of apps on itunes and google play store that stream movies/TV shows for free even websites that streams them.

Here is the thing $20 to $30 dollars for DVD is expensive and to be honest not a lot of people have DVD/Blue Ray player. It makes more sense for movie company to start a streaming service like Netflix or lower their prices.

Lol, you can get a DVD player for like 20 bucks at Walmart, and a blue ray player isnt far behind. I have my ps3 for blu rays, but I don't actually own a single blu ray. I have netflix.

[twdm]

All you have to do is make your WiFi unprotected. They can't prove that it wasn't your neighbors stealing your WiFi and downloading it.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Iceman-19]

I dont see how they can legally charge someone for more then market value of whatever it is that was downloaded. If someone was distributing them for an income, I can understand, but if you downloaded 3 or 4 movies to watch at home? Whats their arguement, loss of income I suppose? Ok, 120 dollar fine. WOW THAT WAS WORTH THE LITIGATION.

[godwin]

Unless you rent or own your place of residence out right, the lien on your dwelling while the case drags on, say a decade, will cause havoc on your life.

All you have to do is make your WiFi unprotected. They can't prove that it wasn't your neighbors stealing your WiFi and downloading it.
Posted via RS Mobile

[godwin]

Read the article, it is not the gov, it is companies going after the address for the illegal down loaders. The gov is just enabling and getting revenue via court costs and of course income tax via Voltage.

By the time the gov catch up there will be other ways to download movies.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Lol, you can get a DVD player for like 20 bucks at Walmart, and a blue ray player isnt far behind. I have my ps3 for blu rays, but I don't actually own a single blu ray. I have netflix.

I mostly use my pc tablet to watch movies and there are no DVD drives. I do have Netflix and rent movies on Itunes but if ti is cheaper to buy I don't mind it but pay $20 for a movie on itunes...... no thanks. Another reason is if I download a movie it generally takes less than 20mins even with Itunes it takes longer.

[godwin]

I don't think there is much litigation there, the proof is there and it is case managed by a judge, for most people they would rather pay the fine (up to $5000), than go to court and get their lives messed up... especially how real estate obsessed and over leveraged people are in Canada.. a lien pretty much means foreclosure.

I dont see how they can legally charge someone for more then market value of whatever it is that was downloaded. If someone was distributing them for an income, I can understand, but if you downloaded 3 or 4 movies to watch at home? Whats their arguement, loss of income I suppose? Ok, 120 dollar fine. WOW THAT WAS WORTH THE LITIGATION.

[Iceman-19]

I mostly use my pc tablet to watch movies and there are no DVD drives. I do have Netflix and rent movies on Itunes but if ti is cheaper to buy I don't mind it but pay $20 for a movie on itunes...... no thanks. Another reason is if I download a movie it generally takes less than 20mins even with Itunes it takes longer.

Im not arguing that at all. 8 bucks a month for Netflix, or a 5 min download. Still beats paying 20 bucks for something that may suck balls. I think the tv and film industry needs to step their game up. A lot of shows/movies these days are terrible drivel, not worth a penny. Its aimed at the mindless americans that have been raised to suck back their bullshit and say thank you more please. If you have any IQ at all, its awful, and not worth a penny of my hard earned income.

[Iceman-19]

I don't think there is much litigation there, the proof is there and it is case managed by a judge, for most people they would rather pay the fine (up to $5000), then go to into court and get their lives messed up... especially how real estate obsessed and overleveraged people are in Canada.. a lien pretty much means foreclosure.

Yes, and as I was saying, they cap it at $5000, and I can't see the average joe getting hit with that for downloading a couple of that production companies movies. As I said, how can their figure to get more then market value out of their case? This is Canada, not the USA. You can't get bullshit like emotional damage in a case like this, we aren't fucking stupid up here. Joe Blow downloads 2 movies, that sell for $20 each at Future Shop. So the company is going to spend THOUSANDS of dollars to get $40 bucks out of Joe?

[godwin]

The company won't, but the law firm would. I am sure they would do due diligence on the background of the downloader. Remember who ever first file the lien has preference on how the foreclosure will be done. A few thousand $ for a potential ownership of property that they can flip, in Vancouver? Yes please!

Yes, and as I was saying, they cap it at $5000, and I can't see the average joe getting hit with that for downloading a couple of that production companies movies. As I said, how can their figure to get more then market value out of their case? This is Canada, not the USA. You can't get bullshit like emotional damage in a case like this, we aren't fucking stupid up here. Joe Blow downloads 2 movies, that sell for $20 each at Future Shop. So the company is going to spend THOUSANDS of dollars to get $40 bucks out of Joe?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Im not arguing that at all. 8 bucks a month for Netflix, or a 5 min download. Still beats paying 20 bucks for something that may suck balls. I think the tv and film industry needs to step their game up. A lot of shows/movies these days are terrible drivel, not worth a penny. Its aimed at the mindless americans that have been raised to suck back their bullshit and say thank you more please. If you have any IQ at all, its awful, and not worth a penny of my hard earned income.

Exactly if it is cheaper I wouldn't mind paying for it. Not to mention there are some good shows such as GoT for example and the procedure don't seem to care at all if people download their shows.

Lot's of people only keep their cable for sports and live events.

[PeanutButter]

And this is why you should use a VPN or proxy. Not even for just piracy, but for your anonymity.

Private Internet Access is having a sale right now. 12 months for $31.95 USD. They're amoung the cheapest VPNs who provide amazing speed and service. They also have an iOS and Android app, which is just gravy.

I just got a VPN and can't believe I haven't been using one all these years. The security and anonymity it provides is amazing.

[doritos]

what about all hundreds or thousands of porn we have?? oh noes. I download music from youtube.

[PeanutButter]

All you have to do is make your WiFi unprotected. They can't prove that it wasn't your neighbors stealing your WiFi and downloading it.
Posted via RS Mobile

The only way they could prove this is to get a court order to seize your computers and routers in the house. All they would have to do is check the MAC addresses and they could find out who was downloading what.

And, just because you leave your wifi unprotected doesn't exempt you from legal action, you can still be held responsible.

[Acura604]

Scare tactics

The Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic, which had intervenor status in the case, said it was "quite pleased" with the decision and expected Voltage wouldn't see any financial incentive in going after downloaders, particularly since it must pay TekSavvy's "substantial" costs.

CPPIC Director David Fewer said his read of the decision is that the court would not be eager to assign penalties at the higher range of what the Copyright Act allows.

"If Voltage is asking for figures in excess of ($100) I think the court is going to shut them down pretty darn quickly," Fewer said.

"And if that's the case I think Voltage is done because this is no longer a viable business model. And that's what the whole copyright troll thing is about, it's about using the court process to get settlements that are in excess of what you could get for (actual) damages to scare people into settling."

Fewer said he was happy that the court will vet any letters that Voltage sends to alleged copyright offenders, since they're typically designed to scare people into settling a case.

"A lot of people just pay the settlement rather than deal with the uncertainty and the anxiety of the claim and the model is predicated on that," he said.

"Certain people are risk averse and it's cheaper to settle rather than to hire a lawyer to deal with it, even if you are innocent."

Lawyers for Voltage did not immediately respond to an interview request.

[KingDeeCee]

As someone who downloaded pirated software quite a bit back in the day and later found himself in the software industry, I don't find myself downloading software anymore. I've either found open-source projects that provide for my needs, or pay for software that I need and use.

For movies though, like many of you have said- I would never buy a movie that I was going to watch potentially once. If I download an unknown movie and end up loving it, it'll find it's way in my library.

I wonder why HBO doesn't raise a stink regarding their highly-pirated shows. GoT is consistently the highest-pirated show these past few years, yet I never hear about them going after seeders. If anything, they seem to almost take it as a badge of honour, as one of you suggested.

I guess I'll stop downloading movies soon. Sucks for studios as I'll pretty much end up watching movies that appeal to me, or are "must-watch" blockbusters.

I believe they don't raise a fuss because they make most of their money from DVD/Bluray sales. They "let" people pirate in hopes that their show is good enough to turn a profit through dvd sales. I know I pirate GoT and True Detective. One which I already buy on release day (GoT) and the other I plan to buy once it comes out. Take this with a grain of salt. I read/heard this somewhere years ago.

I may be a minority of a minority since I enjoy collecting blurays, but I almost always end up pirating a movie even if I already own it because it's so much easier to torrent a film than to rip it. I've slowly stopped torrenting movies since I usually end up going to a theatre if the film is really good or I just wait for the bluray release. The only time I do torrent a film is if I want to watch it on my computer instead of the TV.

[noclue]

Isn't the fine $5000 per incident? So if you are caught pirating a TV show from ABC networks, a movie from Pixar, and a game from Disney interactive, you can get fined for $15,000?

[white rocket]

How is it not easy to access? Goddamn. During the days of VHS and DVD if you wanted to see a movie and drove across town to Blockbuster only to find all the copies were rented you had to get back in your car, drive over to Rogers Video to see if it was there. If it was gone you had to go to that skeezy neighbourhood store with the sticky floors and the smell of sour meat as a last resort. Then when you were done you had to drive that shit back there.
If you find that pressing more than three buttons on your phone to watch Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs 2 is a challenge, you clearly don't remember the days of standing in line at the video store where a child in a stroller is screaming its head off because mommy wouldn't rent all of the videos her precious little snowflake wanted. You don't remember getting up to the counter while the stoned teenager tries to figure out how to make the computerized rental system work. You don't remember getting home with the copy of the movie you really wanted to see, popping it into the DVD tray, only to find it doesn't work because someone has scratched "Peter <3s Tara 4 EVA" into the silver side.

I remember having to drive 45 mins to the next town over to buy a CD on release day because my shitty home town's only music store didn't order it in time.

Dude, you can literally pay a fraction of what you would have to invest in time and transportation costs to go get your media. You can wake up, sit on the couch in your goddamned undies, and buy only the tracks you want from an album on release day instead of being burdened with a shitty $15 piece of plastic full of filler tracks and two radio hits.

How much easier does it have to be for the user to access? If spending 5 solid minutes (literally 300 seconds) pulling out your credit card or debit card, loading the URL of the media provider, and transcribing your information into their purchase submission form is too difficult for you, I feel bad for the medical support worker who has to change your bedpan.

That was an amazing trip down memory lane :woot2:. While I agree with what you are saying I still feel that since I paid those dues in the past I have earned the right to maximize my dollar by using existing systems that allow me to view something before I pay for it. It's a self-justifiable prophecy. LOL! I have seen hundreds of movies in the theater that weren't worth 1 penny afterwards and honestly would like some of the time spent watching it credited back to me. And for CD's, like woah! Anyone ever purchase a Ninja Tune disc in Canada in the 90's? That shit was like 40 bucks or more. Some I bought more than once due to thieves.

Take it all in jest as I pay for Netflix, full cable including Movie Central and Super Channel and rent movies online as well.

[stewie]

This might be a stupid retarded question aimed at music downloading....but what's the deal with those "YouTube to mp3" sites?
Pop in the YouTube URL and it converts everything for you and saves it.

That stuff count?
Posted via RS Mobile

[godwin]

As I have said before.. yes it might be scare tactics.. but if you are a home owner, they put a lien on you and you go to trial for say 5 years.. and you have to figure out how to pay off your 20 year mortgage when it comes due for renewal.. could be between that 5 years. Even if your income is 100k a year, you better have enough savings to pay off the property.

Scare tactics
.

"Certain people are risk averse and it's cheaper to settle rather than to hire a lawyer to deal with it, even if you are innocent."

[godwin]

I think it is per lawsuit and up to the distributors in Canada on how to slice and dice on how they are going to sue.

Isn't the fine $5000 per incident? So if you are caught pirating a TV show from ABC networks, a movie from Pixar, and a game from Disney interactive, you can get fined for $15,000?

[godwin]

You would be amazed even with VPN services, how lazy and incomptent people are.. eg using ISP's DNS etc.

If you use VPN, make sure you test whether the connection is leaking before go nuts on it. Personally I only use L2TP.

And this is why you should use a VPN or proxy. Not even for just piracy, but for your anonymity.

Private Internet Access is having a sale right now. 12 months for $31.95 USD. They're amoung the cheapest VPNs who provide amazing speed and service. They also have an iOS and Android app, which is just gravy.

I just got a VPN and can't believe I haven't been using one all these years. The security and anonymity it provides is amazing.

[willystyle]

Good.

They should now go after all the illegal iptv boxes been sold in south Asian stores which not only air pirated south Asian channels but also english channels and movies. It's not fair to content producers who are already struggling to make a buck have their hard work pirated and have others profit from it.
Those IPTV boxes are legal in it's hardware and OS, as anyone can put together an Android IPTV box with the right hardware, and Android OS is Open Source.

The legality issue strikes in its content, which the manufacturer have no control of as anyone can make content for an IPTV box. It is also difficult to punish these content providers as the content often resides in a jurisdiction that doesn't infringe the copyright laws of the host country (ex. Netherlands). Last, but not least, as an audience, STREAMING copyrighted/non-copyrighted material in Canada is LEGAL.

No I don't own these boxes.

[twitchyzero]

I can't stand people that say "I download it to see if I like it. If I do, I buy it".

B.S.

How many of the free content you've stolen have you purchased? Do you stop watching/listening and delete the content half way in if you don't like it? Or do you just stick around for the ending? Can you walk into a McDonald's, order a number 3, and only pay for it if you enjoy it?


Just look up how popular Humble Bundle is and when artists release CD by naming your price...if you release something great and expose it to as many as possible...you'd get more people interested to preorder/buy your follow-up work.

The Origin Humble Bundle managed to rack in $10M in a week

And that's exactly what many 'pirates' will do when they play a game that blows, they'll quit after investing an hour of their time.

And this is why you should use a VPN or proxy. Not even for just piracy, but for your anonymity.

Private Internet Access is having a sale right now. 12 months for $31.95 USD. They're amoung the cheapest VPNs who provide amazing speed and service. They also have an iOS and Android app, which is just gravy.

I just got a VPN and can't believe I haven't been using one all these years. The security and anonymity it provides is amazing.

Is proxy nearly 100% anon or does it just take longer to track down the original IP?


I wonder why HBO doesn't raise a stink regarding their highly-pirated shows. GoT is consistently the highest-pirated show these past few years, yet I never hear about them going after seeders. If anything, they seem to almost take it as a badge of honour, as one of you suggested.


Speaking of GoT and hit TV shows..I remember when Breaking Bad's creator was in town and touched on the subject of piracy. This article summed up what he said:

Vince Gilligan said illegal downloads of “Breaking Bad” clearly helped the show win new fans — but he also acknowledged the economic harms caused by piracy.

“I see that there’s two sides to this coin, if I’m being honest,” Gilligan said in an interview with the BBC.

“In some ways the illegal downloading has helped us, certainly, in terms of brand awareness,” he said. “The downside is a lot of folks who worked on the show would have made more money, myself included, if all those downloads had been legal.”

After the “Breaking Bad” series finale aired Sept. 29 on AMC, the episode was downloaded more than 500,000 times within 12 hours of the first illegal copy showing up. That made it the show’s most-pirated ep on record, according to piracy news site TorrentFreak.

Piracy is “ultimately a problem and will continue to be a problem going forward,” Gilligan said. “Because we all need to eat. We all need to get paid.”


“I think Netflix kept us on the air,” he told reporters after the show won the Emmy for best drama last month. “Not only are we standing up here (with the Emmy), I don’t think our show would have even lasted beyond season two.”

http://variety.com/2013/tv/news/breaking-bad-creator-vince-gilligan-piracy-boosted-shows-popularity-1200737192/

[willystyle]

Just look up how popular Humble Bundle is and when artists release CD by naming your price...if you release something great and expose it to as many as possible...you'd get more people interested to preorder/buy your follow-up work.


Is proxy nearly 100% anon or does it just take longer to track down the original IP?
Nothing is 100% Anon, in fact, proxy's are somewhat dangerous because you have completely no idea who is running that proxy. Proxy's only hide your IP address, and the data that's tunneling through is non-encrypted and can still be compromised. Essentially, the entertainment industry can setup a fake proxy and nail everyone that's using it to download illegal content.

VPN is the best and most ideal, as there is a good reputation that stands behind what they offer (PrivateInternetAccess, for example), and all of the data tunneled through a VPN is encrypted and not logged (PIA, for example).

Honestly, in this day and age, particularly with the NSA scandal, if you are a frequent or an occasional downloader, there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be using a VPN for peace of mind. It's only $40/year. You have no one else to blame but yourself if you get busted.

[twdm]

The only way they could prove this is to get a court order to seize your computers and routers in the house. All they would have to do is check the MAC addresses and they could find out who was downloading what.

And, just because you leave your wifi unprotected doesn't exempt you from legal action, you can still be held responsible.

In the time they needed to get their warrants, you could have already replaced your hard drives with new ones.

They can definitely try to sue you, but having an unprotected wifi is not illegal. As long as you destroy all evidence of illegally downloaded materials, they can't do jack. Then you countersue them for defamation.

[Majestic12]

The armchair lawyering in this thread is staggeringly ignorant.

[bluejays]

Came across this a while ago and thought itd be a good share here
Pirates buy more music than legal downloaders, study shows | TechHive (http://www.techhive.com/article/2012121/pirates-buy-more-music-than-legal-downloaders-study-shows.html)

[MG1]

I don't get it............ pirates pay for stuff so they can sell it to thousands for profit? So they are legal downloaders, then. Just kidding......... interesting.


How do they find this stuff?


thousands of phone interviews - wow!

Get honest answers from dishonest people.

............nuff said

[bloodmack]

Yall worrying about the WRONG thing. Just wait til 3D printing becomes cheaper to your average pirate.. There's already tons of 3D files on the web to print with a click of a button. BRB downloading a gun.

[twdm]

The armchair lawyering in this thread is staggeringly ignorant.

Show me a case where someone has gotten a court order to seize computers for downloading movies in Canada. Yea that's what I thought. This is not America.

If it took them this long to even be able to force a tiny internet provider to give them addresses and names, think about how hard it would be to force the big telecoms to give up information and THEN get warrants for search AND seizure of computers and hard drives.

Heck this 90 year old child porn addict is smarter than you and was almost able to get away with it if he didn't reveal anything himself.

Prosecutor: Man tried to destroy hard drive after police search | PV Times (http://pvtimes.com/news/prosecutor-man-tried-destroy-hard-drive-after-police-search.html)

[Majestic12]

That's not what I'm referring to. The comment that prompted me to say that, however, is:

As long as you destroy all evidence of illegally downloaded materials, they can't do jack. Then you countersue them for defamation.

Sorry, bud, but that's not how it works. Do you really think the police would obtain warrants, but then give warning and time to permit the accused enough time to destroy any evidence? Do you even know what is required to get a warrant in the first place? By the time the warrant is in place, there's probably a decent enough pile of evidence against you.

Also, the worst part... "countersue them for defamation". No, just no.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol piracy is like the war on drugs.

patent laws and intellectual property laws are archaic and need to be revamped to fit current human patterns of behaviour.

if youre against pirating because of monetary reasons, you're just on the opposite side of the same "immoral" scale.

one side is "stealing" and the other side is "greed".

if youre against piracy because YOU "made" it and and it's YOURS to choose what to do with... well, you're just an egotistical asshat. we'll steal it from you and not even use it, just to break your ego down.

nothing is yours. cuz i'll take it from you whether you like it or not.
what's yours is ours. what's ours is yours.

feel free to do the same to us.
the offer is there. if you don't take it, well too bad. cuz you're playing our game.

no amount of punishment will deter us. no amount of punishment will reform us.

i speak for the majority of the majority. come at us bro. we're waiting.

[Mancini]

Are they specifically targeting uploaders or BitTorrent users?

Vs. downloading from a file hosting site?
Posted via RS Mobile

[westopher]

Good thing the terabytes of porn that has crossed my computer screen has all been streamed.:jerkit:

[FerrariEnzo]

but what if people use a proxy and picked your ip... your going to be SOL and F@CKED...

[white rocket]

Side story: I caught Bad Boys II on the Encore movie channel a few nights ago. As I am watching it I noticed that the subtitles for the Spanish language were in Russian or something. My first thought; did the Encore channel just download this movie from the PB and broadcast it on their channel? Haha. I'm thinking WTF, I'm paying large for this channel package and all their doing is dl'ing shit for free and airing it? We've all dl'd a movie and realized the subtitles were not in English.

I know I'm probably way off base but just thought it was funny considering this recent thread.

[Psykopathik]

IMO why wouldn't ISP's simply delete their records now and protect their customers? is there some law that prevents ISPs from NOT keeping records? All that really matters to them is if their customer is staying under his bandwidth cap.

"Come to Shaw, where you can download whatever you want"

they would get my business.

[willystyle]

IMO why wouldn't ISP's simply delete their records now and protect their customers?
The Conservative government passed a law in 2011 (Bill C-11) to force ISP's to retain logs, which must be handed over to copyright enforcers on demand.

[elwell]

Netflix aint quick enough for me to stop

[rriggi]

Illegal downloaders in federal court?s crosshairs (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/personal-tech/Illegal+downloaders+federal+court+crosshairs/9533007/story.html)


Canadians who illegally download music, movies and other copyright material may no longer be able to hide from potential lawsuits.



I also have the potential of being hit by a meteorite?

I have yet to see anything come from all these reports of Canadians being tracked down. It seems like we pass legislation regarding copyright, but nobody really cares at the end of the day. Shaw is busy screwing you out of money with its cable bundles, they don't have the time to help Hollywood sue you.

[haymura]

my co workers 2 buddies just got an email from Shaw, courtesy of Warner Bros., about downloading a movie. I guess they are pretty serious about this.

[saveth]

I used to get emails like that when I used my isps email service.
Posted via RS Mobile

[underscore]

The main things I pirate are shows you simply can't get here/can't get anymore (edit: this includes not being available in certain formats, why the hell make an HD show and then only release DVD and not Blu-Ray?), things I've already purchased in other formats (I'm not buying Indiana Jones 4 times FFS) and shit that doesn't work when you buy it legally. I've acquired several games legally (purchased, bundled with hardware etc) that don't work for shit with the legitimate setup, so I ended up pirating them and using cracks just to get it to work.

I can't stand people that say "I download it to see if I like it. If I do, I buy it".

B.S.

How many of the free content you've stolen have you purchased? Do you stop watching/listening and delete the content half way in if you don't like it? Or do you just stick around for the ending? Can you walk into a McDonald's, order a number 3, and only pay for it if you enjoy it?

I can see why record/movie companies are doing this. Making a movie is serious business. It costs money. They don't do it to be nice so we can watch it for free.

P.s

I also download. I don't need to justify it though. I do it for the same reason other people do. Its at arms length and even better, costs nothing.
Posted via RS Mobile

I'll purchase content if it's any good, but take a look at the media right now, mostly everything produced these days is shit, and most of the things that are any good are becoming pay-what-you-want anyways. The industries are pumping out garbage and making piles of money even with piracy at its current levels, so they can go fuck themselves if they try to claim it's hurting them.

[nabs]

I always used to get those warnings from TELUS in emails. I just disregarded them and kept downloading as usual. They were all empty threats, I wasn't worried one bit.

All I download nowadays now are TV shows that I missed. I catch the rest on Netflix. I'm anxious to see who gets the caught first as and put as an example. (if they even do). TekSavvy is a small company, a lawsuit against them can easily force them out of business. Whereas Telus and Shaw have huge legal teams who know the system in and out and can possibly find loopholes, they would be less likely to sell out their customers because they have their reputation to look out for.

[Qmx323]

20405

not srs

[PeanutButter]

You would be amazed even with VPN services, how lazy and incomptent people are.. eg using ISP's DNS etc.

If you use VPN, make sure you test whether the connection is leaking before go nuts on it. Personally I only use L2TP.

How do you check if your VPN is leaking?

Most VPN's don't keep logs, so does it even matter?

[PeanutButter]

VPN

Virtual Private Networks create an encrypted ‘tunnel’ between your computer and the host server, with the internet traffic going in and out of the host server. Your ISP or government can only see that you have connected to the VPN server and nothing else – your activities, IP addresses you have visited etc. are all completely hidden from them behind a minimum of 128-bit encryption.

However, the VPN server can see what you get up to on-line, which is why we feel it vital that a good VPN provider to keeps no logs. Anything less and its users’ activities may be compromised (thus making the precaution of using a VPN in the first place redundant!).

Although setting up VPN does usually involve downloading and installing a VPN client, or otherwise configuring your computer or mobile device, the computing skills needed are minimal, and most providers supply detailed step-by-step setup guides in any case. One good thing is that once set up, all your internet activity, no matter which program you use, is now safely routed through the VPN.

The only notable negatives to VPN are that it is comparatively pricey, and the encryption process taxes the servers so that when in heavy use internet access through them can slow down noticeably.

https://www.bestvpn.com/blog/4085/proxies-vs-vpn-whats-the-difference/

Using a VPN is pretty much fool proof for any internet searching or downloading. The only way you could probably get outted is if you're planning some sort national security issue and the government is monitoring you.

[willystyle]

How do you check if your VPN is leaking?
https://www.dnsleaktest.com/

With PrivateInternetAccess, I have the following settings enabled:

VPN Kill Switch - The moment I am not connected to my VPN, my internet connection is dropped. No unecrypted data can leak.

DNS Leak Protection - Assures that the VPN is tunneling through the correct PIA DNS servers, and not your ISP's (Or Google DNS servers).

Most VPN's don't keep logs, so does it even matter?
You'd be surprised that many do, depending on the country they operate.