[multicartual]

Jesus H. tap-dancing Christ.


I can't believe how many people out there are against vaccinations under the pretense that the Government is secretly poisioning them, or that they don't work, or that it causes autism, or any number of other kooky half-baked bullshit reasons.


Nothing pisses me off more. Holy fuck people are so fucking retarded. Measels and other shit diseases are making comebacks because fucking morons read something on the internet and took it as gospel. That cunt Jenny McCarthy is probably responsible for the deaths of children due to spouting off complete bullshit that idiots eat up because she's a celebrity bitch.


The worst part is that two people I know just said "Kevin Trudeau shows facts on his website of why vaccines don't work!"

One google search:

Kevin Mark Trudeau is a convicted American fraud artist, author, radio personality, infomercial host, and salesman who promotes various unsubstantiated health, diet and financial "remedies"

Yet so many people choose to believe this guy over doctors who have gone to school for over a decade to provide medical care for people?


Seriously, we all need to call people out for being FUCKING RETARDS more often. Of course the people talking about this were single moms, people who lived at home with no jobs, or 9-5 retail workers.


:rukidding:

[spoon.ek9]

I googled tap dancing christ and this is what I got

https://tfparsons.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/fsd909844.gif?w=604






I do agree with you though, for once.

[BrRsn]

Speaking of kevin trudeau, isn't he the head of some cult called GIN? Global Information Network?



I say we throw all these people who distrust/doubt modern science onto a fucking island and see how far they get without smartphones/computers .. you know .. because modern science is such a joke anyways

[Manic!]

This says it all: Texas Megachurch Changes Vaccination Stance After Outbreak (http://www.healthline.com/health-news/children-texas-megachurch-measles-vaccination-082613)

[multicartual]

Speaking of kevin trudeau, isn't he the head of some cult called GIN? Global Information Network?


How do these assholes get such a following? How do they sleep at night???


Some dude my friend is friends with on Facebook wrote:

"measels can be prevented by washing your hands, much like polio and other things the Government wants to vaccinate you for. It is to scramble your DNA so the elites can kill off the population."


People actually believe this shit?

[willystyle]

Well, there is some truth to what Kevin Trudeau says. Pharmaceutical companies are only in the business to make money through patented medications, with the purpose of relieving symptoms, rather than curing a disease, because if everyone is healthy and fine, they won't be making any money. Just look at how far and beyond some big pharma's had gone to condemn individuals (herbalists) for prescribing natural herbs (marijuana) for kids with autism.

[ziggyx]

Penn and Teller - Bullsh*t - Vaccinations - YouTube

[xpl0sive]

I do share the opinion that if researchers really wanted to cure things like Cancer, AIDS, etc, it would have been done by now. I can't even imagine how much money pharmaceutical companies make from treatment of Cancer & AIDS patients. If those could be cured, a lot of companies would be out of business.

[willystyle]

^ A big pharma makes over $5000/week from drugs off of one patient with a malignant tumor in the U.S.

It will kill their profit if that person was fine and healthy - cancer-free.

[multicartual]

^ A big pharma makes over $5000/week from drugs off of one patient with a malignant tumor in the U.S.

It will kill their profit if that person was fine and healthy - cancer-free.



Doesn't it cost billions to develop just 1 new drug?

[willystyle]

Doesn't it cost billions to develop just 1 new drug?
The cost of "billions" to develop a new drug is anyone's guess. As there are is no oversight, no audit, nor any processes by a 3rd party that can validate its actual (real) cost. In other words, a big pharma can essentially put a magical sequence of numbers together and call it their cost of production.

[CharlesInCharge]

multicartual are the United States and Canada democracies?
The media and academia say we live in democracies (which we obviously dont), does that mean they're right about vaccines too?

Unbelievable!
Toxic mercury vaccine preservatives claimed good for children
Toxic mercury vaccine preservatives claimed good for children - YouTube


For a thorough research parents should look up the following.
The Vaccine Hoax is Over. Documents from UK reveal 30 Years of Coverup
The Vaccine Hoax is Over. Documents from UK reveal 30 Yeas of Cover-up | nsnbc international (http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/10/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-freedom-of-information-act-documents-from-uk-reveal-30-years-of-coverup/)

Dr Suzanne Humphries: The Truth Treatment - on vaccines and new borns.
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8mHB_CW1tM

google
"UBC doctors expose vaccine coverup"

[Manic!]

The cost of "billions" to develop a new drug is anyone's guess. As there are is no oversight, no audit, nor any processes by a 3rd party that can validate its actual (real) cost. In other words, a big pharma can essentially put a magical sequence of numbers together and call it their cost of production.

Many drugs are created with research done by universities and companies have to show the government where every dollar goes.

[xpl0sive]

Doesn't it cost billions to develop just 1 new drug?

Even if it does cost "billions", according to this article there are 12 million cancer patients in the US, now I don't think every single one of them needs $5,000 worth of treatment every week, but if they do at some point that's $5,000 x 52 weeks x 12,000,000 = $3,120,000,000,000. That's $3 trillion dollars. Pretty good ROI if you ask me.

http://m.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@epidemiologysurveilance/documents/document/acspc-031941.pdf

Straight from the article:
"The National Institutes of Health (NIH) estimates that the over- all costs of cancer in 2007 were $226.8 billion: $103.8 billion for direct medical costs (total of all health expenditures) and $123.0 billion for indirect mortality costs (cost of lost productivity due to premature death)."

[fliptuner]

Why sell the cow, when the milk will do?

[willystyle]

Many drugs are created with research done by universities and companies have to show the government where every dollar goes.
Drug development - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_development#Cost)

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

it's what happens when you are a fear oriented individual. your ability to perceive clearly is blurred by the emotion of fear. everything is out to get you. everything you perceive is bent to the demands of ego driven fear.

[320icar]

I am the absolute last person to be a tin foil conspiracy but. But I think the truths are too obvious to ignore about modern medicine and big business.


Off topic a little, but didnt a local university discover a drug that has virtually no side effects and completely cures a patient of cancer cells? But it's a free market compound (ie: no one pharma company can copy write it and make money) so there is zero funding for it. Even though all preliminary tests have shown 109% effectiveness.

Let me know if anyone knows what I'm talking about
Posted via RS Mobile

[Traum]

There was a story on Vancouver Sun about a Chilliwack pastor preaching how vcaccines interfere with God's care. The story has since been taken down for reasons beyond me, but OMFG WTF?! :fulloffuck::facepalm:

Vaccination rates need to be 95%+ for it to result in community immunity, and we are already nowhere near that for a large number of stuff.

[CharlesInCharge]

I looked up the article but its still there.

Then I started reading some of the comments...
http://i.imgur.com/VLGHCc5.jpg

Vaccines do kill kids but the system covers it up by blaming it something else... they even initially make the parents look guilty.

Also with the second comment, little does that person know that milk (which is made into ice cream) was the source of Polio like symptoms because of all the DDT pesticide that the cows were eating and passing on into the milk.

North america had pretty much eradicated Polio before DDT... and if you try looking up charts, only results from after DDT are shown. I have the full info in my "Fight Club" thread.

[multicartual]

Vaccines do kill kids but the system covers it up by blaming it something else... they even initially make the parents look guilty.


Bro let's say for every 10,000 diseases vaccines prevented it killed 1 innocent child?


Is it worth it?


That's some The Watchmen shit right there.


http://wallpoper.com/images/00/36/72/19/watchmen-dr_00367219.jpg

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

^
i was gona say something similar

with rising density and population.... even if it's less than 1% chance of death.... percentages stay the same.

But numerically you will see a "huge" number.

say a country like china, with a population of 1 billion.
say a vaccine kills 0.1% of the people it's injected into.
0.1% of a billion is 1,000,000.

1 million deaths per billion people injected.

of course it's still worth it.

of course this is from a perspective of the whole. ignoring the 0.1%.

but like other threads that have been clearly established, no one cares about the minorities and their demands. they can go ahead and die, as long as normal people get to wake up everyday and go produce and consume shit.

[GGnoRE]

Bro let's say for every 10,000 diseases vaccines prevented it killed 1 innocent child?


Is it worth it?



Of course its worth it. Its not like the gov't physically forces you to get vaccinated. Most medication has risks of side-effects but people aren't going to stop taking them.

[CharlesInCharge]

Time and time again vaccinations from the west either dont work, actually infect a disease, or do some kind of health or mental harm. I think there is an agenda behind it.
I like what the second commenter says here
http://i.imgur.com/dUg8j36.jpg

You guys can keep going with your gut feels on this one, I'll stick to the historical conspiracies that show otherwise.

[GGnoRE]

^ lol have you ever looked into the science behind how vaccines are supposed to work? Where are these figures (# of injections vs neurologically damage) surveyed from?

Immunology and vaccination is a topic studied by scientists all round world. Are you claiming that all of these universities and scholars are stirring up some bs all together?

[CharlesInCharge]

For starters did you read the link I provided in post 12 about the 30 years of coverup?

edit -
The doctors name is Chris Shaw, it shouldnt be hard to track down his released pdf containing his findings from the covered up documents.
This is a video of him on vaccine safety which Ive yet to watch
Vaccine Safety Conference Session 17 - Christopher A. Shaw, Ph.D, Professor - YouTube

[multicartual]

BCIT student sick with measles from Fraser Valley outbreak - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bcit-student-sick-with-measles-from-fraser-valley-outbreak-1.2574246)

[multicartual]

For starters did you read the link I provided in post 12 about the 30 years of coverup?



I bet if we stopped vaccinating completely, we would be fucked.


Are you saying if we stopped vaccinating disease rates would stay the same?

[multicartual]

Are you vaccinated CiC?

[CharlesInCharge]

Originally in Iran I suppose, and had a shot or two in Canada. One probably needs only a handful of vaccines (and not always as a infant), and even those I would source from a trust-able supplier. There are like 3-4 vaccine makers in the world, Iran is currently one of the new ones.


edit -
I just watched that above video and it talks about the damage aluminum in vaccines does to the brain.
Interestingly enough

he goes on about an island where there was a high incidence of a disease which could be caused by aluminum... and Michael J Fox also made a documentary about his disease in which scientists also used that same island outbreak for its related causes to Parkinsons. Oddly enough Parkinsons is really rare but Mr.Fox and another one or two co-workers got it... they had worked together in Vancouver a long time ago before his movie Teen Wolf, and the chances of them having Parkinsons means there was some kind of clustered cause from that time... I think he also mentioned something about most of them having gotten a cold then.
Anyway putting these two incidences together, who knows maybe that film crew many years ago had got a flu shot with high aluminum which overtime created their disease.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i wonder if anyone has ever considered genetic disposition to being susceptible to vaccines fucking you up.

like, if vaccines are needed to keep these crazy diseases and viruses at bay, but vaccines also fuck up some people along the way... maybe it's just Darwinism. These people are genetically predispositioned to not survive in this world where we have adapted to vaccines.

that is if vaccines do fuck people up. and yes i realise i'm sounding like a cruel heartless bastard, but, it doesn't change the facts.


I also think CiC is just saying, there's a correlation between an increase in vaccines and these disabilities and deaths or whatever. but of course correlation doesn't mean causation. but it's definitely worth noting.

another thing we can bring up is...

who is here vaccinated?

I was born in the early 1980's. I probably got whatever shots are mandatory at birth (if any), and I remember getting some shots in elementary school (everyone had to, or most people did). and like 1 or 2 in highschool.

hep shots, tetanus shots, measles, smallpox?

That's it... i've never had a flu shot or any of that.

I mean, i understand why people get hep, tetanus, measle and small pox. those things are pretty nasty.
but what is this CiC brings up. 36 recommended by age 18? 36? WTF I don't even think i've had 36 needles stuck in my body my whole life.

what the fuck are these vaccinations for?

another thing i want to know. why the fuck do people get flu shots every year? what is their objective? you get the flu, u get sick for a week, and u get over it.
it isn't like tetanus, measles or smallpox or hep. it's just the fucking flu. unless you've got a weak immune system or some other disability that makes u highly susceptible to death if you catch the flu... what the fuck are you doing?

isn't the flu vaccine perpetuating super flus? when in fact most people don't need any flu shots?

what else are people getting vaccinated for?

I don't have any kids, but i know some RS people do... what are kids getting these days? provide some insight.


anyway, i've always been against the flu shot. i just think it's a fear driven market. preying on the fearful and the pussies. lol.

this whole time i thought the people that were against vaccines... were against the vaccines that I got shot up with as a kid. but it seems like they're shooting kids up with a lot more shit if CiC is accurate.

wtf. what ARE they shooting them up with?

[spoon.ek9]

I'll just leave this here:

One map sums up the damage caused by the anti-vaccination movement | I Fucking Love Science (http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/one-map-sums-damage-caused-anti-vaccination-movement)

And out of curiosity, how many of you have been properly educated about cancer treatment? I say this because you can't use your personal opinion to judge something like this.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

^

on the bright side, us normal healthy people will have a genetic advantage in terms of superiority and opportunity in this world. lol. there's always a brighter side to things haha...

*flicks hair, i'm beautiful* oh yeah.

but in all seriousness, i want to be more informed of this anti vaccination thing. which vaccinations are they talking about? ALL Of them? what has been developed since our generation (gen X&Y).

i thought there were only a handful of vaccinations.

why are kids more and more fucked up as generations go on? why are there so many allergies now? why do so many kids have skin problems or like... allergies. it just seems like genetically weaker people are growing in numbers, and it's highly visible.

is it vaccinations? is it the shitty foods we are eating? is it the promotion of unhealthy work/production habits (more stress, less rest). what is it?

I mean i'm really glad i'm 100% ok. no allergies, no... nothing wrong with me at all (lol). except these glasses. but, i feel sorry for all these kids i see these days at school. a buncha my generation has kids now, and i have to say... i don't like what i'm seeing. it used to be the odd kid, that has some serious allergy or something wrong with them genetically. but now it seems to have doubled, and that's only in one generation.

it feels like our genetic pool, humanity as a whole, has become weaker. what the fuck is up with that. it's actually scary.

edit: lastly, what is the actual cons of people not getting vaccinated... i mean, there will always be people that get vaccinated right? so when the diseases hit and spread, and people get fucked up and die... it's just the people that didn't get vaccinated right? so... really... who cares? HAH.

[multicartual]

who is here vaccinated?

I am, I also played outdoors in the dirt as a kid. I ate dirt, a worm, got bitten by spiders, stung by wasps, hornets, bees. Played with animals, was a dirty kid!


As an adult, I'm healthy as fuck, I get a cold like 1 time per 2 years, iron stomach, 0 allergies!!!

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

i do realise that humans do live way longer now than before.
and humans are way healthier and WAY LESS sick than before the 20th century.

so vaccines do help for sure.

another point i can bring up is, some people cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason (immune system is fucked up, or old age), and people that don't get vaccinated are fucking shit up for the people we should be caring for.

overall my stance is still pro vaccination. but i'm not sure about those 30+ things cic has mentioned.



i understand we are a society that has progressed beyond being weeded out by common diseases.
we have modern technology. we are not gonna sacrifice that and go backwards to wholey natural selection.

BUT then that brings up the moral and ethics question... if we deny nature the ability to select... who gets to select then?

[spoon.ek9]

see, if we could cure stupidity....

[Soundy]

^ lol have you ever looked into the science behind how vaccines are supposed to work? Where are these figures (# of injections vs neurologically damage) surveyed from?

Immunology and vaccination is a topic studied by scientists all round world. Are you claiming that all of these universities and scholars are stirring up some bs all together?
Two things here:

One, the discussion took a left turn into pharma and drug development, which is a different thing entirely than immunology: drugs are there to treat, cure, mitigate, or otherwise deal with diseases after the fact... immunology and vaccines are meant to prevent you from getting them in the first place.

Two, along with other failures of the school system, there's a widespread misunderstanding of the science and concepts behind vaccines:

The body has natural defense mechanisms to protect against viruses, bacteria, and other sorts of invaders. However, the human body, as a general thing, isn't naturally immune to EVERYTHING - like the Borg shields, these defenses adapt to new threats as they're encountered. Chicken pox is a good example: once you get it, your body learns how to fight it, and for most people, you'll never catch it again. Fortunately, chicken pox rarely kills by itself.

Other diseases, though, will kill or seriously harm very high percentages of people upon first exposure... but exposure is required in order for the body to learn how to detect and fight it. So how do you create immunity??

The whole idea of a vaccine is to take the virus itself, kill it, hollow it out (removing its own genetic material that allows it to propagate), then inject the "shell" into the body, so the body's own defenses can learn to identify it and attack it... so that when the real virus invades, the body recognizes it and rallies to troops.

It's simple, it's effective, it USES THE BODY'S OWN NATURAL PROCESSES. To put it back in Trek terms, it's like hitting the Borg with phasers set to "sting" so their shields can adapt without actually killing any of them.

Will some people react badly? Sure. Those are people whose bodies would probably react ESPECIALLY badly to the REAL THING.

Are there other compounds in the vaccines? Sure - trace amounts of substances that are there to help preserve and maintain the "active ingredients", lest the vaccines become inert or break down while they're being shipped all over the world so you can walk into your local clinic to get one (unless you want everyone to actually travel to where they're made so they can get them fresh?) Will some people's bodies react poorly to these? Sure, just as they'll react poorly to ANY exposure to certain substances.

Problem is, you get a miniscule percentage of people with extra-sensitive or fucked-up immune systems that will have a problem, and suddenly someone wants to make it into a big thing that these vaccinations are bad for EVERYONE... well by that token, nobody should go out on a sunny day, because a few people's skins are sensitive to sunlight. Or nut products should be banned and removed from the planet because a few people have allergies to it. :fulloffuck:

[mr_chin]

Our body naturally have defense mechanism for all disease, except that some disease spread faster than the body can fight it.

Good example given by Soundy is chicken pox. Hepatitis B is another. Then you get into the more severe ones like HIV which depends on the viral load you have and also cancer, our body does its job to maintain them, and if lucky, fully cure them. Hence why earlier detection can lead to cure because the treatment is faster than the spread.

Any medication/drugs/etc you take will decrease the body's natural defense mechanism (even if it's not scientifically proven, this is what I believe).

IMO, wash your hands, keep a good hygiene, and don't share drinks and food with anybody, and you'll be safe.

[BrRsn]

Our body naturally have defense mechanism for all disease, except that some disease spread faster than the body can fight it.

Good example given by Soundy is chicken pox. Hepatitis B is another. Then you get into the more severe ones like HIV which depends on the viral load you have and also cancer, our body does its job to maintain them, and if lucky, fully cure them. Hence why earlier detection can lead to cure because the treatment is faster than the spread.

Any medication/drugs/etc you take will decrease the body's natural defense mechanism (even if it's not scientifically proven, this is what I believe).

IMO, wash your hands, keep a good hygiene, and don't share drinks and food with anybody, and you'll be safe.

Your immune response to everything is based off exposure. You are exposed, you mount an adaptive immune response (which takes 7-14 days) and then the invading bacteria is eventually cleared by your immune system producing antibodies. Those antibodies stick around, and are saved as memory cells so if you are ever exposed again, instead of taking 7-14 days, it's almost instantaneous.

Vaccines (the simplest ones) help build the 'memory' so if/when you are exposed to it, it doesn't take ~2 weeks for your body to clear it. Vaccines are made of either an attenuated live form of the bacteria, or a dead form. In both cases it causes a host immune response, which is 'saved' and can be reactivated upon exposure to the real deal.

So I don't believe vaccines are ineffective, but the things they are effective against are very specific, and there's tons of variation between different strains of bacteria -- so just because you're vaccinated doesn't mean you're immune to being sick. Keeping good hygiene, washing your hands, all that is great but a lot of the bacteria/viruses are spread by inhalation of infected respiratory droplets -- there's no way around that

In my experience, I generally get sick ~2x every flu season -- the first time is the worst, second time not so bad. I started supplementing Zinc (50 mg every day) and I avoided the flu. This is the cheapest/best remedy IMO.

[CharlesInCharge]

Here are the vaccines given to B.C. kids.
Immunization Results - Public Health Agency of Canada (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/iyc-vve/immunizationresults-eng.php?P%2FT=2&months=3&days=16&years=2014#scheduler-frm)

A large number of medical doctors put the following out on the dangers of vaccines.
http://i.imgur.com/7FmBGZC.jpg
source Vaccines: Get the Full Story - NaturalNews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccines_get_the_full_story.html)
Original PDF http://www.naturalnews.com/SpecialReports/VaccinesFullStory/v1/VaccineReport-EN.pdf


This is a good source for information.
Search Results - NaturalNews.com (http://www.naturalnews.com/GoogleSearchResults.html?q=vaccines&cx=010579349100583850635%3Aw_kzwe9_yca&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=UTF-8&sa.x=37&sa.y=12&siteurl=www.naturalnews.com%2F030868_vaccines_auti sm.html&ref=wecogitate.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F12%2F30%2Fth imerosal-free-childhood-vaccines-still-suspect-in-autism%2F&ss=)

[multicartual]

CiC... if we stopped vaccinations completely would we have more deaths due to disease, the rates would stay the same, or would they go down?

[Yodamaster]

I haven't had a flu shot in years, and in that time I have not had the flu or been seriously ill.

Of course, I am not everyone, but you can increase your chances of avoiding infection by simply washing your hands after coming in contact with surfaces that many people share. I wash my hands after every outing, even if it's just downstairs to grab a snack or lunch, cheap insurance. Simply put, good hygiene is very important when it comes to health.

[multicartual]

I wash my hands after every outing, even if it's just downstairs to grab a snack or lunch, cheap insurance.


Hahaha when I got the bird flu 3 years ago, I was in TD Bank and I had just answered a call from my dad when some lady next to me sneezed and I could feel the droplets hit my tongue


:heckno:

[Soundy]

Of course, I am not everyone, but you can increase your chances of avoiding infection by simply washing your hands after coming in contact with surfaces that many people share. I wash my hands after every outing, even if it's just downstairs to grab a snack or lunch, cheap insurance. Simply put, good hygiene is very important when it comes to health.
Only relevant with some types of infections. Many are airborne, waterborne, or transmitted by biting insects - fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes can carry numerous different diseases and all the handwashing in the world won't prevent you getting those.

Detail-oriented people know these things :troll:

[GS8]

I googled tap dancing christ and this is what I got

https://tfparsons.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/fsd909844.gif?w=604


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdsnX2Z0a3g



I do agree with you though, for once.

This goes really well with this song

Best VGM 33 - Blast Corps - Beeton Tracks - YouTube

And sums up religion in a nutshell

[CharlesInCharge]

CiC... if we stopped vaccinations completely would we have more deaths due to disease, the rates would stay the same, or would they go down?All I do know is that I dont want the Freemasonic lords of the underground to do anything with vaccinations. I believe the Amish dont vaccinate, they're still around and dont get Autism.

[multicartual]

I believe the Amish dont vaccinate, they're still around and dont get Autism.


Aren't they isolated enough that disease would have a hard time getting into their community as opposed to urbanites like us that come into proxy contact with people from around the world on a near daily basis?

[Yodamaster]

Detail-oriented people know these things :troll:



http://i.imgur.com/d6GsLHq.gif

[CharlesInCharge]

Aren't they isolated enough that disease would have a hard time getting into their community as opposed to urbanites like us that come into proxy contact with people from around the world on a near daily basis?If you really want to know you'd have to do an extensive search on each of the disease vaccines given to B.C. children.
Also you cant trust the mainstream or whats been indoctrinated in academia for a reliable source of info.

I would start with this lady and the related information in her realm of doctors to know which diseases are fatal and for which vaccinations actually works.
Dr Suzanne Humphries
Dr Suzanne Humphries: The Truth Treatment - Truth Connections Radio - 29th November 2012 - YouTube

edit - another doctor
Deadly Vaccines - Garth Nicolson, microbiologist
_youtube.com/watch?v=dmRDGAASUPM

[observer]

Amish dont vaccinate, they're still around and dont get Autism.

It appears the above is a myth:

Myth: "Amish Don't Have Autism" (http://www.opposingviews.com/i/myth-amish-don-t-have-autism)

Anecdotal Amish-don't-vaccinate claims disproved by fact-based study - The Panic Virus (http://blogs.plos.org/thepanicvirus/2011/06/28/anecdotal-amish-dont-vaccinate-claims-disproved-by-fact-based-study/)

There are many articles if you google amish don't get autism (https://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=amish+don't+get+autism&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=ctrl&ei=gn0mU-CTBsbP8geUzIHYCw&gws_rd=cr), the following summarizes it well:

Assuming it is true that they do not have autism, it does not mean vaccines are harmful. That is a logical fallacy. It's like saying Japanese have the longest lifespans, so eating sushi every day will make you live longer. It ignores all other factors.

There is no scientific evidence supporting the theory that vaccines cause autism. 99% of people who have been vaccinated do not have autism, and not all autistic people have been vaccinated. Autism may be influenced by home environment, the experiences of the infant, neurological factors, relationship with parents, etc. It is also possible that some Amish may have autism that has gone undiagnosed.

So if you're looking for an excuse not to protect your child (and the children he or she comes into contact with) from smallpox, polio, mumps, etc., pointing to the Amish does not help your argument at all.

Now, back to whether or not Amish can be autistic:

Yes, they can. Approximately 1 in 274 Amish children are Autistic, a slightly lower number than the general public, but enough to prove the theory that they don't get it to be incorrect. The number is also increasing.

Here is the study, if you want to read it yourself:

https://imfar.confex.com/imfar/2010/webp...

[Iceman_2K]

To parents that CHOOSE not to immunize their kids - don't be offended if I ask you if you immunized your kids or not, or if you say they're not, that they are asked to not join certain large group activities, or group activities at all.

It's a crime for HIV+ people to engage in sex without notifying partners about their disease. It should be the same for unvaccinated people participating in group activities. If you have a problem with being treated differently or being excluded then get used to it. I have a right to know if I'm putting myself at risk just by being in your presence.

If this is a trend that continues, then we need regulations in place for contact with these folks. Regular checkups, certifications and assurances that the unvaccinated people are currently uninfected. I'm fine with that. If you're not going to be vaccinated then that's your choice, but be responsible about it, especially when it comes to the well-being of others.

[CharlesInCharge]

To observer;
There are different figures floating around, I initially saw one saying 1-10,000 Amish get autism but its probably false.

Looks like you're good at researching, can you tell me why infants need the hepatitis B vaccine?

edit


So if you're looking for an excuse not to protect your child (and the children he or she comes into contact with) from smallpox, polio, mumps, etc., pointing to the Amish does not help your argument at all.

Also when I said the Amish are still around, this is to the question that was raised about if we totally stop all vaccinations.

edit 2
I also read a report about some Amish secretly vaccinating... so the numbers will never be a perfect statistic... but of course much better then 1 in 50 rate of the U.S. (Frobes Magazine)

[CharlesInCharge]

Ive flooded this thread with lots of links, but here are two more I found in my archives.

How Vaccines Harm Child Brain Development - Dr Russell Blaylock MD
_youtube.com/watch?v=7QBcMYqlaDs

38 Children Recovered in 20 months with MMS (video speech)
38 Children Recovered in 20 months with MMS - UNIVERSALLY AWARE (http://universallyaware.ning.com/video/38-children-recovered-in-20-months-with-mms?xg_source=shorten_twitter)

[russc]

Not everything is a conspiracy. Jesus.

[multicartual]

Not everything is a conspiracy. Jesus.


According to most Infowars readers, everything is a false flag / conspiracy / controlled by the NWO / Jewish banker cabal / lizard aliens / etc etc etc

[ae101]

i have never really taken a vaccine shot & the reason for that is cuz

1. i dont like shots, very scared of them

2. most importantly my dad believes it might cause me side effects

if u wash your hands all time & stuff like that u should be fine, im living in china right now & i go to the wet market everyday dont have a problem

i have only been vaccinated twice (under my knowledge):

1st time was in elementary i was very young & i cry like a little bitch & everyone started laughing at me

2nd time was in HS, the fat old lady told me to look away from the needle but i told her i like to watch the needle go through & i also want u to punch/stable it in, everyone thought i was a freak (i remember this was bought up during PT meet afterwards)

[multicartual]

i have never really taken a vaccine shot & the reason for that is cuz

1. i dont like shots, very scared of them


Seriously... it's a split second of pain... I would rather a pin prick in my arm than a couple weeks of a horrible disease that could kill me!


Dare I say... man up?!

[Soundy]

A Freemasonic lords of the underground

Timmy and the Lords of the Underworld- Self Titled - YouTube

[observer]

Looks like you're good at researching, can you tell me why infants need the hepatitis B vaccine?

Thanks for the compliments. I was just curious about your statement earlier, did a quick search and find the results apparently contradictory to the claims.

Most conspiracies can be shot down with a few google searches.

Results why infants need hepatitis B vaccine (https://www.google.ca/search?num=100&client=safari&rls=en&q=why+infants+need+the+hepatitis+B+vaccine&oq=why+infants+need+the+hepatitis+B+vaccine&gs_l=serp.3..0i22i30l6.5257.6216.0.6508.3.3.0.0.0. 0.102.292.1j2.3.0....0...1c.1.37.serp..1.2.203.zsb ww_eovfU).

The apparently more credible links from the list above:

CDC - Hepatitis B Fact Sheet for Parents - Vaccines (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hepb/fs-parents.html)

Why Infants Should Receive the Hepatitis B Vaccine at Birth | Shot of Prevention (http://shotofprevention.com/2010/05/06/why-infants-should-receive-the-hepatitis-b-vaccine-at-birth/)

Nothing is 100% certain, but all we need to do is to assess the likelihood.

Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor)

Here is a good talk: How to separate fact and fiction online (http://www.ted.com/talks/markham_nolan_how_to_separate_fact_and_fiction_onl ine).

[CharlesInCharge]

I'd like to get your take on why a little baby should be exposed to possible mercury(neurotoxin), aluminum(neurotoxin) and mycoplasma viruses over and over again, 3 times for 6 month old Canadian infant, for this vaccine? You do know how its passed on to others I presume.

[multicartual]

I'd like to get your take on why a little baby should be exposed to possible mercury(neurotoxin), aluminum(neurotoxin) and mycoplasma viruses over and over again, 3 times for 6 month old Canadian infant, for this vaccine? You do know how its passed on to others I presume.


It makes sense to me that in small doses the body can learn how to fight this shit and build up it's immune system.

I attribute my ox-like health to the fact that I grew up playing outdoors and in dirt since I was a toddler.

One of my friends grew up in an apartment completely sheltered as a child, in her adult life she is sick with a cold or the flu more often than she is not. She also has a ton of allergies.

[CharlesInCharge]

Why would a baby need this vaccine at such a young age?
Q: How do you get hepatitis B? How can I protect myself?

A: Hepatitis B is caused by the hepatitis B virus (HBV). The virus interferes with the functions of the liver and activates the immune system, which produces a specific reaction to combat the virus. As a consequence of pathological damage, the liver becomes inflamed. A small percentage of infected people cannot get rid of the virus and become chronically infected – these people are at high risk of death from cirrhosis of the liver and liver cancer.

Hepatitis B virus is transmitted by contact with blood or body fluids of an infected person – the same way as the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). However, HBV is 50 to 100 times more infectious than HIV.

[observer]

I'd like to get your take on why a little baby should be exposed to possible mercury(neurotoxin), aluminum(neurotoxin) and mycoplasma viruses over and over again, 3 times for 6 month old Canadian infant, for this vaccine? You do know how its passed on to others I presume.

Read the above links or do your own research?

The TED Talk link I posted earlier is quite interesting (http://www.ted.com/talks/markham_nolan_how_to_separate_fact_and_fiction_onl ine), while it doesn't specifically address what we are discussing, it does provide a few tricks on how to tell fiction from fact.

The bottom line is that there is a lot of BS out there.

[twitchyzero]

an infected person isn't limited to IV drug use and promiscuity

[observer]

Why would a baby need this vaccine at such a young age?

Ok, have done the summary for you:

According to information provided by the Immunization Action Coalition and the CDC, an estimated 1.25 million people are chronically infected with the hepatitis B virus in the United States alone, resulting in an estimated 2,000-4,000 deaths each year. Surprisingly, 30%-40% of these chronic infections were acquired during childhood. This fact alone presents a compelling case for vaccinating infants – before they become infected.

Parents need to understand that the hepatitis B virus can be spread by infectious blood and body fluids, and not solely through sexual contact. As a parent myself, I can recall countless times that I have tended to children, both my own and others, who have suffered scrapes, cuts, nose bleeds and even bites from frustrated playmates. These are realistic opportunities for exposure since the CDC has stated that the virus remains viable and infectious in the environment for at least 7 days and can remain present in inanimate objects absent of visible blood. Since only 7 out of 10 infected adults show any signs or symptoms, and infected children under age 5 rarely show any symptoms at all, it is obvious how the infected population can easily, and unknowingly, be transmitting the disease to others.

One of the issues that Deborah Wexler, from the Immunization Action Coalition, addresses is that many of those who become infected with the hepatitis B virus contract the disease from their unknowingly infected mother at birth. Dr. Wexler explains, “There are so many parents and healthcare professionals who think this vaccine is wrongly given at birth for an STD that might be acquired later in life. But the most important reason for it is to prevent HBV infection early in life with the possible life-long complications of chronic disease in the form of liver failure and liver cancer that affect so many who are infected at birth. I wish this message were more broadly disseminated, but it is a difficult message to discuss due to its complexity, the need to explain how medical errors might occur and why testing isn’t infallible, or how exposures could occur in an infant.”

While OBGYNs suggest the mother be tested prior to delivery, there are many instances when this does not occur, or when it is possible that the mother contracts the disease in the period after testing, but before birth. Properly identifying infected mothers is complicated since there can be errors in test ordering, result interpretation or even test inaccuracy. Therefore, administering the first dose of the hepatitis B vaccine soon after birth minimizes the risk for infection from the mother or from other infected persons who may be living in the household. Additionally, the hepatitis B vaccine can actually help prevent infection in infants who are born from mothers with the virus in their blood. This serves as another important fact to support vaccinating your child according to the recommended schedule.

Studies also indicate that the long-term chronic health issues related to this virus, such as liver failure, cirrhosis, and liver cancer, are directly related to when a person is first infected. For example, 90% of infants who are infected will ultimately develop chronic symptoms later in life, however, when the illness is contracted at an older age, the chronic effects are less prominent. Only 30% of children age 1-5 who contract hepatitis B will go on to develop these chronic issues. Once again, these figures demonstrate the benefit of starting infants on the multi-dose vaccination series as soon as possible after birth in order to provide the greatest preventative effect on the population.

[Excelsis]

lol

http://rnm.wikispaces.com/file/view/ingre.jpg/33705937/ingre.jpg

[threezero]

each vaccine comes with a small booklet detailing the possible side affects from it. things like temporal and permanent paralyzation, diarrhoea, loss of sight and getting sick from the actual disease itself, its all possible effects. of course not one gets to see that booklet as the packaging is usually discard by the physician administering the shot. The chance of getting these side affects is very very slim but it can happen.

It would be naive to think vaccine is 100% safe, its not. however it chance of failure is very low.

[CharlesInCharge]

Chances of failure low, interesting did you read the disclosed documents released through freedom of information act to come to those conclusions?
Read the above links or do your own research?

.....

The bottom line is that there is a lot of BS out there.I suppose you watched that TED Talk, fact or fiction, talk yourself, how do you know what you're relaying here is in fact, fact?

And lastly how does a baby contract Hepatitis in your own words?

[quasi]

Do anti-vaxxers need a ?nudge?? More like a kick in the pants - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/do-anti-vaxxers-need-a-nudge-more-like-a-kick-in-the-pants/article17499526/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=Referrer%3A+Social+Network+%2F+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links)




A measles outbreak in B.C.’s Fraser Valley has spread into the general population, beyond the Chilliwack Christian school where it is thought to have started. There’s one important component missing from that sentence: I should have said, “an entirely preventable measles outbreak.” Like recent outbreaks in Alberta and Quebec, there is no reason why this should have happened, except that people are refusing to have their children vaccinated – and thus putting other people at risk.
More Related to this Story. Fraser Valley Measles outbreak prompts officials to issue national plea for vaccination B.C. gears up for measles after two new Chilliwack cases As a doctor, I've seen why vaccination is a 'no brainer'


Vaccination rates have fallen in many industrialized countries over the past 15 years for no good reason, and many bad ones. You need only look at the Council on Foreign Relations map showing thousands of recent cases of entirely preventable diseases – measles, mumps, whooping cough – in places where vaccines are free, safe and readily available. Parents in Syria will brave bombs and gunfire to have their kids vaccinated – what excuses do parents in Western Europe and North America have?

In hyper-health conscious New York, there’s been another recent outbreak of measles, which caused Russell Saunders, a doctor writing under a pen name in The Daily Beast, to write an understandably angry piece: “Just over a dozen years ago this illness was considered eliminated in our country, and this year people are being hospitalized for it. All due to the hysteria about a safe, effective vaccine. All based on nothing.” He points out that measles is not an easily dismissed virus: It can lead to severe complications, and in three cases out of 1,000, death.

But this misplaced hysteria has to be based on something, right? Why would otherwise rational parents, who wouldn’t dream of driving their kids unbuckled and out of their car seats, risk their health – and the health of their classmates – by not having them immunized?

Why do so many people, despite evidence to the contrary, still believe vaccinations are unsafe? (Canada’s immunization rate is reported to be 84 per cent; in parts of Southern Alberta, where there was a measles outbreak last year, it’s as low as 60 per cent.)

You can blame it partly on the infamous, now discredited 1998 study that linked the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to autism. But that’s only part of the story. As Seth Mnookin writes in his excellent book about vaccination, The Panic Virus, otherwise well-educated, well-off, health-conscious parents are making deeply illogical decisions based on little more than a hunch and a whizz through Google. “When it comes to decisions around emotionally charged topics, logic often takes a back seat to what are called cognitive biases – essentially a set of unconscious mechanisms that convince us that it is our feelings about a situation and not the facts that represent the truth.”

A new study in the journal Pediatrics reinforces that exact point. A survey of almost 2,000 U.S. parents found that pro-vaccination messages were unpersuasive for those who already had doubts about immunization. In some cases, the pictures and stories of sick children, whose illnesses could have been prevented, actually reinforced their unfounded beliefs that vaccines were dangerous.

Reading between the lines, you can almost feel the researchers throwing up their hands. How do you deal with such intransigence? The Pediatrics team recommended that governments’ pro-vaccination messages should be better crafted, and that pediatricians, whom parents trust, should have a more central role in campaigns.

There are other methods of persuasion, some more carrot than stick. Australia, aiming for a 100-per-cent vaccination rate, announced plans to claw back tax breaks for parents who won’t immunize. Dr. Saunders, who I mentioned earlier, has written that his practice won’t accept patients if their parents aren’t having them vaccinated. This may seem drastic, but he writes that he has to think of the health of his other patients.

These are all fine if you believe in the “nudge” theory of influencing behaviour, but in this case, I’d argue we need more of a good old kick in the pants. If we penalize people for other behaviour that’s harmful to the public good – smoking in bars, not using car seats – then why would we not fine them for refusing to vaccinate their children? Under the law, you are not allowed to physically abuse your children – why should you be allowed to willfully expose them and others to easily prevented harm?

This would not be politically palatable, I’m sure, but then neither is the alternative: a bunch of kids who are sick and didn’t have to be.

[Soundy]

lol

http://rnm.wikispaces.com/file/view/ingre.jpg/33705937/ingre.jpg
They forgot one of the worst: Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide (http://dhmo.org/facts.html)

Seriously, this shit is SO inflammatory and misleading.

(Yeah, some Ph.D wrote it... that's one. Vs. tens of thousands of others who disagree.)

(edit: Oh, I notice they list GENETICALLY MODIFIED yeast there... since GMOs are the latest boogie-man, so of course, that makes it EXTRA scary. It's hard to read the rest because it's so fuckin' small, but is there anything in there about radiation, irradiated stuffs, maybe the word "nuclear"? Cuz those words are sure to start a shitstorm the last couple years, too.)

(edit 2: Just managed to squint enough to read the bottom part... what is this guy's Ph.D. in, basket weaving? Lead pipes were a leading cause of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire? :lawl: pretty sure there are a few thousand historians who would have an issue with that. Fuck. You think if these anti-vaxxers' "science" held any water - sorry, DHMO - they'd have to resort to this kind of idiocy to try to scare people?)

each vaccine comes with a small booklet detailing the possible side affects from it. things like temporal and permanent paralyzation, diarrhoea, loss of sight and getting sick from the actual disease itself, its all possible effects. of course not one gets to see that booklet as the packaging is usually discard by the physician administering the shot. The chance of getting these side affects is very very slim but it can happen.

EVERYTHING has side effects. 99.99% of the time THEY'RE NOT AS BAD AS THE DISEASE YOU'RE VACCINATING AGAINST. That's the thing that keeps getting glossed over: your chances of getting the disease are about 100 times higher than feeling any of the side effects, and about 10000 times higher than the chances of the side effects actually being worse that the disease.

It's like the idiots who don't wear their seatbelts because of the chance their car might go into a lake and they won't be able get it undone. :fulloffuck:

[observer]

I suppose you watched that TED Talk, fact or fiction, talk yourself, how do you know what you're relaying here is in fact, fact?

And lastly how does a baby contract Hepatitis in your own words?

Which is more likely, a multinational conspiracy pushing the unnecessary Hepatitis B vaccine for infants or perhaps there are genuine benefits?

What are the benefits of the hepatitis B vaccine?
(http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-hepatitis-b-vaccine_1561.bc?showAll=true)
The hepatitis B vaccine (HBV) protects your child against the hepatitis B virus, which can lead to liver damage and even death.

Hepatitis B is generally considered an adult disease because it's known to be transmitted through unsafe sex and shared needles. But many who get it, including children, don't engage in these "high-risk" behaviors. They're either infected at birth or they contract the disease from close contact during childhood with others who are infected.

Hepatitis B is highly infectious. An estimated 800,000 to 1.4 million people in the United States have the virus, and 20 to 30 percent of them acquired the disease in childhood. Many of them never feel sick and don't know they have it, but those who become infected as children are more likely to have long-term health problems such as cirrhosis and liver cancer. About 3,000 Americans die from hepatitis B-related illnesses every year.

The HBV vaccine was introduced in 1981 and became part of the recommended immunization schedule in the United States in 1991. Since then, the incidence of acute hepatitis B has dropped by 94 percent in children and adolescents, and over 75 percent overall. The number of new infections per year has declined from an average of 260,000 in the 1980s to about 38,000 in 2010 with the biggest decline among children and adolescents.

[CRS]

This just about sums up how I feel about vaccinations.

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aoznZDA_460s.jpg

[Traum]

Just a little anti-vaccine-related humour for everyone:

Jenny McCarthy: Anti-vaxxer gets remedied on Twitter. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/03/17/jenny_mccarthy_antivaxxer_gets_remedied_on_twitter .html)

On Thursday, McCarthy asked a question of her fans on Twitter to see what they’d say. What she got was a dose of the reality she helped spawn.

Jenny McCarthy ✔ @JennyMcCarthy

What is the most important personality trait you look for in a mate? Reply using #JennyAsks

Really, she should’ve known what would happen. I would’ve expected a vast series of snarky retorts about vaccines… and I would’ve been right. But what they said exceeded my most fervent hopes. Here’s a selection of just a few I liked out of hundreds.

See the remarks for yourself.

[twdm]

CiC.... Mercury has been removed from vaccines for decades... Stop bringing up bullshit from your 30-40 year old archives. Might as well say electricity is the work of the devil. My ancestors from the 1800s said so.

[Soundy]

This just about sums up how I feel about vaccinations.

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/aoznZDA_460s.jpg

Yummy mummy, would bang/10.

[CharlesInCharge]

Soundy you're so smart and an active researcher, Im surprised you havent cracked the hepatitis B questions yet :concentrate:

CiC.... Mercury has been removed from vaccines for decades... Stop bringing up bullshit from your 30-40 year old archives. Might as well say electricity is the work of the devil. My ancestors from the 1800s said so.
What are your sources that there is no mercury in vaccines anymore?
Could it be that you're the one fed bullshit from the devil?

Which is more likely, a multinational conspiracy pushing the unnecessary Hepatitis B vaccine for infants or perhaps there are genuine benefits?

....

The hepatitis B vaccine (HBV) protects your child against the hepatitis B virus, which can lead to liver damage and even death.

Hepatitis B is generally considered an adult disease because it's known to be transmitted through unsafe sex and shared needles. But many who get it, including children, don't engage in these "high-risk" behaviors. They're either infected at birth or they contract the disease from close contact during childhood with others who are infected.

Hepatitis B is highly infectious. An estimated 800,000 to 1.4 million people in the United States have the virus, and 20 to 30 percent of them acquired the disease in childhood. Many of them never feel sick and don't know they have it, but those who become infected as children are more likely to have long-term health problems such as cirrhosis and liver cancer. About 3,000 Americans die from hepatitis B-related illnesses every year.
...So because a few mothers dont want to test them selves for hepatitis B, that means everyone should give their little babies a poison cocktail of a vaccine? Of course not that is just silly or rather stupid.

So were left with your other researched conclusion to show that their is no conspiracy. Lets say Im raising a baby in my apartment, how does it contract a blood virus like Hepatitis B?

[Soundy]

Soundy you're so smart and an active researcher, Im surprised you havent cracked the hepatitis B questions yet :concentrate:
Already been addressed, why should I duplicate effort?

[CharlesInCharge]

Comprehension fail then?

"Lets say Im raising a baby in my apartment, how does it contract a blood virus like Hepatitis B? "

[twdm]

What are your sources that there is no mercury in vaccines anymore?
Could it be that you're the one fed bullshit from the devil?


Sorry, let me clarify. Mercury has been removed from almost all childhood vaccines that are accused of causing autism (eg. MMR). So the claim that the MMR has mercury is a non-factor.

SOURCE: Thimerosal in Vaccines and Autism - Vaccine Safety - Public Health Agency of Canada (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/q_a_thimerosal-eng.php)

"Q2. Is thimerosal in all vaccines?
No. Most vaccines licensed in Canada do not contain thimerosal.

The influenza vaccine and most hepatitis B vaccines are multi-dose vaccines, which contain thimerosal as a preservative.

For immunization of infants against hepatitis B, parents or guardians in some provinces and territories have the choice of a thimerosal-free vaccine."

[MG1]

CIC, do you have kids of your own?

I not a RS stalker, so I have no idea where you are coming from. You probably posted it somewhere, but I don't recall. Not gonna judge you, either. Just curious, nothing else.

[Soundy]

CIC, do you have kids of your own?

I not a RS stalker, so I have no idea where you are coming from. You probably posted it somewhere, but I don't recall. Not gonna judge you, either. Just curious, nothing else.

Here's CiC's resume. (http://www.revscene.net/forums/684324-youre-offended-word-zionist-now-debate-me.html)

:accepted:

[CharlesInCharge]

Looking forward to seeing you answer that question Soundy... you're probably finding the best sources to really put my conspiracy ass in place.


Sorry, let me clarify. Mercury has been removed from almost all childhood vaccines that are accused of causing autism (eg. MMR). So the claim that the MMR has mercury is a non-factor.

SOURCE: Thimerosal in Vaccines and Autism - Vaccine Safety - Public Health Agency of Canada (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/q_a_thimerosal-eng.php)

For immunization of infants against hepatitis B, parents or guardians in some provinces and territories have the choice of a thimerosal-free vaccine.:suspicious:



CIC, do you have kids of your own?

I not a RS stalker, so I have no idea where you are coming from. You probably posted it somewhere, but I don't recall. Not gonna judge you, either. Just curious, nothing else.I have a half brother who is 2 years old now... hes Japaneses and Iranian in which the language barrier makes my doctors advises fall on deaf ears. Propaganda is too deep specially when there is a person to person face to it in a clean white coat telling them what to do.

[observer]

No pre school, no interaction with others, no visitor, 100% sure mother and whoever the infant sees is Hepatitis B free, to scratches, no play with kids.. Sure.

[CharlesInCharge]

Is that how Hepatitis B is contracted? sources please.

[Soundy]

Is that how Hepatitis B is contracted? sources other than thousands of competent, dedicated doctors and immunologists who've been researching this for decades, please.

Fixed.

[CharlesInCharge]

Hey geniuses if Hepatitis B was passed on by regular daily contact or scratches then why is it such a rare cancerous disease?

[observer]

Is that how Hepatitis B is contracted? sources please.

Source listed above (http://www.revscene.net/forums/693563-anti-vaccine-people-3.html#post8437921) as highlighted.

Hey geniuses if Hepatitis B was passed on by regular daily contact or scratches then why is it such a rare cancerous disease?

Rare disease (http://www.hepb.org/patients/general_information.htm)?

Worldwide, 2 billion people (1 out of 3 people) have been infected with hepatitis B. 400 million people have become chronically infected (which means they are unable to get rid of the virus). An estimated 1 million people die each year from hepatitis B and its complications.

In the United States, over 12 million people have been infected (that’s 1 out of 20 people). Almost 100,000 new people are infected with hepatitis B each year. An estimated 5,000 Americans die each year from hepatitis B and its complications.

[CharlesInCharge]

Source listed above (http://www.revscene.net/forums/693563-anti-vaccine-people-3.html#post8437921) as highlighted.

Rare disease (http://www.hepb.org/patients/general_information.htm)?Your source is vague.. tell me in your own written English what if
"Im raising a baby in my apartment, how could it contract a blood virus like Hepatitis B?"


Worldwide, 2 billion people (1 out of 3 people) have been infected with hepatitis B. 400 million people have become chronically infected (which means they are unable to get rid of the virus). An estimated 1 million people die each year from hepatitis B and its complications.

In the United States, over 12 million people have been infected (that’s 1 out of 20 people). Almost 100,000 new people are infected with hepatitis B each year. An estimated 5,000 Americans die each year from hepatitis B and its complications.What are your sources that say 5,000 Americans die each year?

[observer]

Your source is vague.. tell me in your own written English what if "Im raising a baby in my apartment, how could it contract a blood virus like Hepatitis B?"

Department of Health, Victoria, Australia (http://www.health.vic.gov.au/immunisation/factsheets/infant-hepatitis-b.htm):

How is hepatitis B spread?

Hepatitis B virus is spread in the blood, sexual secretions or saliva of a hepatitis B infected person by:

sharing drug injecting equipment
sharps injury
sharing razors, toothbrushes etc
sexual contact
mother to baby at birth
child to child, usually through open sores or wounds
breastfeeding

What are your sources that say 5,000 Americans die each year?

The numbers come from the Hepatitis B Foundation, you didn't bother clicking the link as expected which sited the source (http://www.hepb.org/patients/general_information.htm).

Perhaps you don't want to be corrupted by the big corporations and governments. The people behind the foundation includes the support from Dr. Baruch Blumberg (http://www.hepb.org/about/blumberg.htm) who won the Nobel Prize for his discovery of the hepatitis B virus.

More big conspiracies!

[CharlesInCharge]

How is hepatitis B spread?

Hepatitis B virus is spread in the blood, sexual secretions or saliva of a hepatitis B infected person by:

sharing drug injecting equipment
sharps injury
sharing razors, toothbrushes etc
sexual contact
mother to baby at birth
child to child, usually through open sores or wounds
breastfeeding
I dont see whats so difficult of you to say how my theoretical child would get infected.
First of all the mother connection is void when the mothers been tested.
The only thing you'd probably say out of the list is the child to child rubbing of open wounds... blood leaks out when one gets cut, if two children have massive wounds, they would have to be mashing those wounds together so that one gushing blood stream containing the virus (if that child happens to have Hepatitis B) would somehow have to enter the other childs blood stream while it too is gushing out.
How ridiculous of a scenario is this... no two children would even be able to coordinate their gushing wounds when in such pain.
This kind of occurrence is like a mediator falling into ones backyard pool... and not many people own swimming pools!:moderatorban:

So do you still think my theoretical child could get infected somehow?


The numbers come from the Hepatitis B Foundation, you didn't bother clicking the link as expected which sited the source (http://www.hepb.org/patients/general_information.htm).

Perhaps you don't want to be corrupted by the big corporations and governments. The people behind the foundation includes the support from Dr. Baruch Blumberg (http://www.hepb.org/about/blumberg.htm) who won the Nobel Prize for his discovery of the hepatitis B virus.

More big conspiracies!Yes truly more conspiracies because the U.S.A's Centers for Disease Control has that figure at 1,700 with a constant dipping of deaths.

CDC DVH - Viral Hepatitis Statistics & Surveillance (http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/statistics/)
http://i.imgur.com/y35tbdS.jpg

[MG1]

CITE = A citation, or reference, uniquely identifies a source of information:

[twitchyzero]

CiC...do tell what's in it for the big pharma/govt and their hidden agenda...as stated preventative measures like vaccine programs account for a fraction of their revenue

kids sharing food/biting each other/nose bleeds might pose very limited risk of transmission...but why even take that risk in the first place? So when do you suggest people should have them administered? Teenage years?

[observer]

I dont see whats so difficult of you to say how my theoretical child would get infected.
First of all the mother connection is void when the mothers been tested.
The only thing you'd probably say out of the list is the child to child rubbing of open wounds... blood leaks out when one gets cut, if two children have massive wounds, they would have to be mashing those wounds together so that one gushing blood stream containing the virus (if that child happens to have Hepatitis B) would somehow have to enter the other childs blood stream while it too is gushing out.
How ridiculous of a scenario is this... no two children would even be able to coordinate their gushing wounds when in such pain.
This kind of occurrence is like a mediator falling into ones backyard pool... and not many people own swimming pools!:moderatorban:

So do you still think my theoretical child could get infected somehow?

Your theoretical child would never get sick of any kind ever, as the condition is made up to suit your requirement; unfortunately, it doesn't happen in the real world and thus is irrelevant.

If sharing a tooth brush may pass the virus, children play and get scratched up all the time with bruises and cuts. Is it that hard to imagine? What makes you think so many children get Hepatitis B?

Given the option, if your child play with an HIV infected child, if taken a vaccine would pretty much eliminate the passing of the virus, would you still not do it for your child? No, simply because they are supposed to have no bodily fluid exchange therefore is not needed?

Of course, in your bubble, nothing happens, all mothers are also perfectly disciplined to screen for Hepatitis B too.

[russc]

Sojust to clarify... is it the Rothschilds, or the Repitilians who want to enslave our children through vaccines? For Zion!
Posted via RS Mobile

[mr_chin]

IMO, it's better not to get babies under the age of 6 or so vaccinated. This is solely my opinion because I think that the first several years is an important year for a baby's growth.

On the other hand, I think all children should get vaccinated at the age of 16 or so, especially when children become sexually active.

[Traum]

^^ Kids these days become sexually active so much earlier than 16... HPV vaccine, for example, is recommended for girls at 11-12 years old.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol this is how i see it

CiC is taking on a position that is always skeptical at the powers at be.

this topic may seem a little whack to the majority of you.

but let's say we switch to to NSA or FB/internet privacy (or just general privacy).
suddenly a lot of you will be protective of the self and skeptical at those powers... suggesting they might use it for evil, or out to get you, or it's better just to be safe to be invisible... even though the proof that they will target you, is just the same as the proof as any other skeptical conspiracy shit.

to me. that's the same thing. just the topics are different.

there will always be skeptics.

you pick which topic you wanna be a skeptic about. other than that, it's all the same.

[wstce92]

this is why we shouldn't let stupid people reproduce. the children are innocent.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol, you say that now, until someone compares you to a genius and deems you stupid. then what?

[Soundy]

IMO, it's better not to get babies under the age of 6 or so vaccinated. This is solely my opinion because I think that the first several years is an important year for a baby's growth.
And here we see another example of the core of the problem: uninformed, uneducated opinions that show no clue about immunology or how vaccines actually work.

[Soundy]

CiC is taking on a position that is always skeptical at the powers at be.
"Skeptical" - that's the understatement of the year.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol...

when you want to tear something apart, you send CiC in. cuz he'll tear it apart... even if there's nothing to tear apart.

it's just the exact opposite of being a fan boy.

[Phil@rise]

Study finds post-H1N1-vaccination rise in narcolepsy in 3 nations | CIDRAP (http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2013/01/study-finds-post-h1n1-vaccination-rise-narcolepsy-3-nations)
This is just one example of many as to choose carefully what and why you are being vaccinated for.

[Presto]

Anti-vaccine group has charity status pulled by Australian government

Anti-vaccine group has charity status pulled by Australian government | Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/science/2014/03/anti-vaccine-group-has-charity-status-pulled-by-australian-government/)

Over the last month, a group that had called itself the Australian Vaccination Network has suffered some heavy blows at the hands of Australian state governments. The group, which questions the safety and efficacy of vaccination, had been targeted by state regulators in the past, but it appealed the penalties they imposed. Now it has lost two appeals; as a result, it's been forced to both change its name and cease all fundraising as a charity.

There is a strong consensus among medical and public health authorities that vaccines are generally safe and are clearly effective at preventing disease. In their absence, diseases such as the measles have frequently resurfaced, with last year seeing nearly triple the number of cases in the US. Despite this track record, many countries have seen groups organize to oppose state-sanctioned or -mandated vaccination programs.

Australia has not been immune (pun intended); the Australian Vaccination Network was founded in 1994 to engage in "Lobbying to ensure that vaccinations are never made compulsory for Australian children." To that end, it publicizes questions about vaccine safety and effectiveness, often relying on questionable science to do so. (Its tagline? "The AVN—because every issue has two sides.")

The group was recently compelled to change its name to the Australian Vaccination-skeptics Network, in recognition of its actual perspective on matters. In the more recent decision, the group was stripped of its status as a charity because of the potential harmful impact of the information it promotes.

Australia's ABC News quotes Health Minister Jillian Skinner as saying, "Our government is determined to protect our children from the devastating consequences of vaccine-preventable disease" and "Forget the scaremongering. There is nothing to fear from vaccination."
http://www.terrariaonline.com/attachments/angry_grumpy_cat_good-png.86514/

In contrast, a spokesman for the Australian Vaccination-skeptics Network appears to have taken the "it's only a flesh wound" approach to bad news, saying, "Let it be known that we are entirely happy about what's happened. In fact, we're still celebrating. This is something that we've been wanting to happen for many years."

What a bunch of retards. "It's good we got reamed because it just proves the government's secret vaccine agenda" Durrr.

[Soundy]

"The group, which questions the safety and efficacy of vaccination..."

This is the key. Questioning things is fine. Bleating dangerous, unsupported bullshit as if it's fact to the detriment of other people's health is not.

[CharlesInCharge]

CiC...do tell what's in it for the big pharma/govt and their hidden agenda...as stated preventative measures like vaccine programs account for a fraction of their revenueLook at what I posted earlier.
http://i.imgur.com/7FmBGZC.jpg
"Vaccine side effects can make you sick for the rest of your life"
Thanks to Phil@rise's revelations on the side effects of the bird flu shots to give one narcolepsy...
[What is narcolepsy? _youtube.com/watch?v=Ucpf_OYvs4E ]
I did a bit of looking around and wouldnt you know it, there is an expensive narcolepsy drug to make one somewhat normal again.

15 year old U.K. girl developed narcolepsy after flu shot (video)
Chloe Glasson to receive pioneering drug in battle against narcolepsy | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534210/Girl-falls-asleep-30-times-day-taking-flu-vaccine-Teenager-receive-pioneering-drug-battle-against-narcolepsy.html)
http://i.imgur.com/GShMU8K.jpg

The same thing is happening to people across the world... in viewing initial Google searches Ive seen reports in China, Europe, the U.S. and Africa.

But its not just about selling medicine for profit, as most wont be able to afford it... putting people in these situations brings about other way to exploit humans to keep them in a working class, regional control, and many other aspects but its basically to control populations.

A few of the richer government have a bit of morals to compensate people.
Compensation to Norwegian swine flu vaccine victims affected by narcolepsy sleeping disorder
_youtube.com/watch?v=k5M4rvt9DIk

Look at these African Americans with narcolepsy after getting the flu shot. (video)
Narcolepsy linked to popular swine flu vaccine, study suggests | WJLA.com (http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/03/narcolepsy-linked-to-popular-swine-flu-vaccine-study-suggests-86199.html)

As described in the description, here we have the "nodding syndrome" side effects after an African vaccination program carried out by the U.S.
_youtube.com/watch?v=lBYUXFBze4Y


kids sharing food/biting each other/nose bleeds might pose very limited risk of transmission...but why even take that risk in the first place? So when do you suggest people should have them administered? Teenage years?The virus lives in the blood, you'd have to get an infected persons blood into the other.... I dont think the things you describe can even be said to be a limited risk.
Start looking up the risks of the Hep B vaccine alone, like one stating 300% increase in multiple sclerosis.
If one lives in this sex crazed society, from 13-15 might be the earliest age I'd do it... but I'd have it administered in Iran as they make it themselves.
_www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4W5Pw7amA4

I dont know if ones kids would be allowed in the schools here that way... other then the junk in vaccines, Im also concerned about mycoplasma bacteria/viruses in the local stocks as some of them could be genetically engineered as a bio-weapon to attack certain cells.
some stomach cancer strains people get were originally patented by the U.S.
_youtube.com/watch?v=Qa95R8RLXFM
Who knows if the narcolepsy side effects could be from one of these or just the squalene stuff.

[CharlesInCharge]

Your theoretical child would never get sick of any kind ever, as the condition is made up to suit your requirement; unfortunately, it doesn't happen in the real world and thus is irrelevant.

If sharing a tooth brush may pass the virus, children play and get scratched up all the time with bruises and cuts. Is it that hard to imagine? What makes you think so many children get Hepatitis B?

Given the option, if your child play with an HIV infected child, if taken a vaccine would pretty much eliminate the passing of the virus, would you still not do it for your child? No, simply because they are supposed to have no bodily fluid exchange therefore is not needed?

Of course, in your bubble, nothing happens, all mothers are also perfectly disciplined to screen for Hepatitis B too.So because some mothers are not disciplined to get tested, everyone should risk their kids to get autism... great point.

Also lets say there is risk in the playground... there is no reason to risk the neurodevelopmental of ones child when its just a new born or before it could even walk by it self to reach a playground.

I could've posted this pages back but no one wouldve learned anything from it.
Hepatitis B Vaccine: Good for 'Newborn' Prostitutes and Drug Users, but Who Else?
Hepatitis B Vaccine: Good for 'Newborn' Prostitutes and Drug Users, but Who Else? (http://www.naturalnews.com/023610_vaccine_hepatitis_B.html#ixzz2wMf6XNeF)
http://www.naturalnews.com/gallery/webseed/dr-with-syringe.jpg

The Hepatitis B (Hep B) vaccine is considered one of the most controversial vaccines in the pediatric vaccination schedule. Why are we giving it to newborns and what are the adverse reactions associated with such an early vaccination?

What is Hep B?

Hep B is a very rare disease caused by the Hep B virus which primarily affects the liver and is principally spread through the blood. Hep B may lead to chronic infection and cirrhosis (scarring) which may then progress to liver cancer. Approximately .2% of the population in America currently have Hep B, leaving 99.8% of the population free of this virus. According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), approximately .001 percent of all infants under the age of one year will contract Hep B and 95 percent of them will recover on their own and never contract the virus again. In the U.S. in 2005, only five children under the age of five were reported to have been infected with Hep B (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, March 30, 2007). Furthermore, the U.S. continues to have the lowest recorded levels of Hepatitis in the world. According to the October 31, 1997 MMWR published by the CDC, "Hepatitis B continues to decline in most states, primarily because of a decrease in the number of cases among injecting drug users and, to a lesser extent, among both homosexuals and heterosexuals of both sexes."

How do you get Hep B?

Hep B is transmitted from bodily fluids that are contaminated with the virus. This can be done through unprotected sex, contaminated needles, blood transfusions or vertical transmission from mother to child.

What is the Hep B Vaccine?

In November of 1991, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the CDC recommended the universal vaccination of Hep B to every newborn in the U.S. There are currently two types of genetically engineered hepatitis B vaccines licensed for use in the U.S.: Merck's Recombivax HB® (each 0.5 mL dose contains 5 mcg of hepatitis B surface antigen with formaldehyde, and .5mg of aluminum (potassium aluminum sulfate)[1] and GlaxoSmithKline's Engerix-B® (each 0.5 mL dose contains 10 mcg of hepatitis B surface antigen adsorbed on 0.25 mg aluminum as aluminum hydroxide, sodium chloride, disodium phosphate dihydrate, and sodium dihydrogen phosphate dihydrate [2].

When is the Hep B Vaccine Given?

The Hep B vaccine is the first vaccine given to newborns and is injected within 12 hours of birth. The CDC then recommends a second injection at one to two months of age and a third vaccination between six and 18 months (regardless of manufacturer).

Why is the Hep B Vaccine Given?

This vaccine is given because of fear, lack of knowledge and corporate greed from the vaccine manufacturers. Merck generates over $1 billion worth of revenue from this vaccine alone. Most hospitals allow for screening of Hep B in mothers prior to birth, but many do not do this. Even if the mother tests positive for Hep B, there is only a 5% probability that the virus will be passed from mother to child. We are ostensibly injecting helpless newborns (nearly 1 million per year in the U.S.) with this vaccine with the false belief that every mother already has Hep B and if they don't, we will be protecting the future generation of promiscuous teens and drug users. The CDC and FDA know that drug users and prostitutes will not get the vaccine themselves and therefore it is better to vaccinate these potential drug users and hookers when they are born. The CDC and Merck have collaborated to misinterpret and skew the number of cases of Hepatitis B in the U.S. They say each year up to 320,000 new cases occur, yet the CDC documents report that only 10,000 new cases occur. Even of these 10,000 cases, 95 percent (or 9,500) will recover on their own and forever have natural immunity. This type of misinformation and fear tactics are nothing new to Big Pharma, for it is fear that allows one to control the masses and as a corollary, numerous infants and families have forever been harmed.

Adverse Reactions to Hep B?

Accurate data on adverse reactions to the Hep B vaccine are very difficult to come by due to scarcity or lack of reporting by many physicians as well as blocked reporting data from the CDC. The most recent and complete data from the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) and government agencies (CDC, FDA) are from July, 1990 to October 1999 and include 24,775 adverse reactions. These reactions include 439 deaths and 9,673 emergency room visits. These reactions have included, arthritis [3, 4]; skin disorders [5]; compromised immunity and autoimmune disease [6]; neurological damage; vision loss and rare eye disorders such as optic neuritis [7] and epitheliopathy [8]; blood disorders [9]; diabetes [10]; damage to liver and kidneys [11]; severe vomiting, diarrhoea and death [12].

Because the reporting of adverse events to VAERS is completely voluntary, up to 96 to 99 percent of these reactions are never reported [13]. Realistically, the number of adverse events following Hep B vaccination from 1990 to 1999 would be somewhere around 2.5 million (24,775 multiplied by 99). In addition to the above adverse reactions, additional severe reactions have been reported from Merck and GlaxoSmithKline Biologicals which include: edema of the heart, chest discomfort, Guillain-Barre syndrome, fever, hearing damage, bronchial spasms, hair loss, encephalitis, multiple sclerosis, seizures, herpes zoster, Bells palsy, rash, visual impairments and anaphylaxis [1, 2]. In October of 1998, France became the first country to effectively ban the Hep B vaccine given to children due to an increase in child arthritis, multiple sclerosis symptoms and other serious adverse reactions.

From the above evidence we can conclude that if you wish to groom your children to become future drug users who share needles or prostitutes (or quite possibly both) then the risks of contracting Hep B may outweigh the risks of receiving one of the many adverse reactions. But, if you are a responsible parent and believe that your child is extremely unlikely to come in contact with Hep B through such risky behavior (especially as a newborn or infant), then clearly this vaccine is unwarranted. Furthermore, it is safe to say that this vaccine should be removed from the American Academy of Pediatrics infant vaccination schedule to prevent further damage and death to our children. Interestingly enough, up to 87% of pediatricians believe that the Hep B vaccine is totally unnecessary for newborns [14]. It seems that the Hep B vaccine may be warranted in only the most exceptional of circumstances much later on in life, but it has no place being anywhere near our 12 hour old children with a very immature and underdeveloped immune system.

Learn more: Hepatitis B Vaccine: Good for 'Newborn' Prostitutes and Drug Users, but Who Else? (http://www.naturalnews.com/023610_vaccine_hepatitis_B.html#ixzz2wMfXloHI)

[CharlesInCharge]

lol this is how i see it

CiC is taking on a position that is always skeptical at the powers at be.

....They control every facet of ones life, and they will even shorten ones life if you dont know the games they're up to.

And here we see another example of the core of the problem: uninformed, uneducated opinions that show no clue about immunology or how vaccines actually work.Just to refresh everyone's minds, you're pro Hep B shots to newborns. :failed:

Lastly this is just one of the shots that is easily questionable... the others will take some research and I would start with the speakers I posted earlier. Good luck.

[twdm]

Study finds post-H1N1-vaccination rise in narcolepsy in 3 nations | CIDRAP (http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2013/01/study-finds-post-h1n1-vaccination-rise-narcolepsy-3-nations)
This is just one example of many as to choose carefully what and why you are being vaccinated for.

Did you even read the article? God.. This is what happens when you give headlines to people with zero critical thinking. What was the study comparing the increase to? This was basically a statistic that showed there was an increase in narcolepsy cases year over year. They just happened to choose the years after the h1n1 to put what would normally be a useless study in the spotlight.

CiC, your random articles about people getting side effects don't mean anything on its own. I could for instance eat dirt when I have the flu, and if I recover, claim that eating dirt cures the flu?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

They control every facet of ones life, and they will even shorten ones life if you dont know the games they're up to.



they do control every facet of our lives... or have a major influence.

but the question is, was that the intent from the beginning? or is that just how the power pyramid works? since people are naturally greedy and try to squeeze every drop out of the lime... naturally ones that climb to the top will coerce the bottom to do their bidding. they'll always try to maximize results. produce the most from the least. which always will mean testing the will of the lower classes

i just realised in some ways i just agreed with you. and in other ways people born into a system like this that haven't taken another perspective can't really see it. they're kinda born into this perfect prison built by their masters lol.

there's always a give and take. if you choose to live in any society where there are other humans above you in any manner, or govern you in any manner. you give some, you take some. you get the benefits of living in a society. the paved roads. doctors. nice buildings...and a million other services. but on the flip side, you have to obey the will of the body (society, and it's artificial laws and influences on the physical self).

to escape it the will of the ones that steer the body (the powers at be)... you have to live away from society. in the wild, where you only have to obey the will of nature.

that being said, i still think man is more kind and merciful than mother nature. lol. i'd rather live in society and have to suffer these kinda fucking headaches. beats having to catch my food and probably getting eaten by a wild animal... or freezing to death.

i dunno man. i can't pick a century that has existed in all of history i'd rather be, other than this century. can you? the powers at be have always been the same throughout all of existence. but the citizens at the lower end of the stick, have access to the most technology and information now. more than ever. i'll take that any day!!!

[CharlesInCharge]

edit -
I like the present also, and although we have more tools and technology at the lower end, the higher ups are also many steps ahead. The winning of the hearts and minds is their best tool.

I dont think I would've gotten the different perspectives that I have had I been working through out my life... I took on somewhat of a broke hermit life, but Im glade I know what I know then to have fall in some kind of trap... whether its a none healthy one, materialistic consumer one, or the many other traps that one could easily fall into.

I would say, as history has shown, this one powerful group of elites have remained in existence for more then a 1000 years and their off spring have and will continue world domination aspirations how ever necessary short of nuclear wars.

Im sure the little greedy citizens that are playing along swindling our pockets and the ones we see on TV know whats going on... but the attraction of money that come with it probably over power any morals that they have for humanity... thinking if I dont do it, someone else will.


To twdm
Zero critical thinking you say...
why would the Norwegian government give compensation to swine flu vaccine victims affected by narcolepsy sleeping disorder then?

[twdm]

To twdm
Zero critical thinking you say...
why would the Norwegian government give compensation to swine flu vaccine victims affected by narcolepsy sleeping disorder then?
So paying indicates cause? Why does the government pay poor people welfare cheques? Why does Samsung have to pay apple for making a rectangular tablet?
Posted via RS Mobile

[multicartual]

i dunno man. i can't pick a century that has existed in all of history i'd rather be, other than this century. can you?


Pretty much the best comment in this whole thread.


No DOUBT this is the best age to live in!!! Holy fuck I'm having so much fun and I'm healthy, safe, and livin' it up!!! :woot2:

[CharlesInCharge]

So paying indicates cause? Why does the government pay poor people welfare cheques? Why does Samsung have to pay apple for making a rectangular tablet?
Posted via RS MobileGovernment admittance is the last thing that happens in these kind of cases. You'd only have to look at the U.K. medias admittance (which is more controlled then the government of Norway) to know there is a link.
Why do you expect us the bring forward absolute evidence when you can look it up yourself... instead you're playing into the systems lies, defending their atrocities and fooling other members its safe.

[twdm]

Government admittance is the last thing that happens in these kind of cases. You'd only have to look at the U.K. medias admittance (which is more controlled then the government of Norway) to know there is a link.
Why do you expect us the bring forward absolute evidence when you can look it up yourself... instead you're playing into the systems lies, defending their atrocities and fooling other members its safe.

What evidence do you bring up? All these "studies" are poor quality evidence. There is no blinding, no randomization no comparison to placebo. None of these would ever be accepted for approval of any pharmaceuticals.

[Soundy]

Just to refresh everyone's minds, you're pro Hep B shots to newborns. :failed:

You have a very vivid imagination. I never said anything about the subject either way.

[PJ]

This scene came to mind. Wish there was a better quality clip that also included 10 seconds before and after what's shown.

Just before the clip starts..

Mom: She's been sick lately.
House: Did she get her vaccination?
Mom: No, we don't believe in them.

House is awesome - and funny - YouTube

And after the clip..

Mom: So what's she have?
House: A cold.

[CharlesInCharge]

Like I said earlier, the propaganda is deep.

What evidence do you bring up? All these "studies" are poor quality evidence. There is no blinding, no randomization no comparison to placebo. None of these would ever be accepted for approval of any pharmaceuticals.Ok, you win, dont think twice about getting your flu shot.
Its mainstream documented that these same companies have purposely spread AIDS tainted blood around the world and even our own government had a hand in it in killing Canadians... but dont fault them on their past murders...

“Go back to bed, Canada. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, Canada. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's the Vancouver Canucks. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, Canada. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and salute you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, Canada! You are free to do what we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!”

Remastered Bill Hicks quote. :)


You have a very vivid imagination. I never said anything about the subject either way.
I believe you did.
http://i.imgur.com/AXIOdis.jpg

[Soundy]

I believe you did.
http://i.imgur.com/AXIOdis.jpg
Like I said, you have a very vivid imagination, and a real knack for reading things that say nothing, they way YOU want them to read.

[CharlesInCharge]

With your very pro vaccination stance through out the thread, do you think members were expecting you to duplicate efforts of information against vaccination of Hep B to children?... or even duplicate information that advocated the shot but against newborns?

Anyway tell us your stance on the Hep B shot to babies coming from a very pro vaccination person such as yourself.

[Soundy]

Anyway tell us your stand on the Hep B shot to babies coming from a very pro vaccination person such as yourself.

I'm not pro-vaccination, I'm anti-stupidity. And I'm not telling you any more about my personal thoughts on the matter, because it's infinitely more entertaining to watch you stumble about attributing things to me that I never actually said.

[CharlesInCharge]

Geez thats too bad, you were pretty generous with your thoughts in this post and made out the anti-vaccination advocates as idiots.

.......

Problem is, you get a miniscule percentage of people with extra-sensitive or fucked-up immune systems that will have a problem, and suddenly someone wants to make it into a big thing that these vaccinations are bad for EVERYONE... well by that token, nobody should go out on a sunny day, because a few people's skins are sensitive to sunlight. Or nut products should be banned and removed from the planet because a few people have allergies to it. :fulloffuck:

[Phil@rise]

I consider myself neutral of any vaccination stance. I grew up with mine in place and my children got their basic vaccines as well. The littlest one is undergoing them. I also question the importance, timing and the method with which vaccines are applied or "sold" to us. Both my daughters were on a delayed vaccine schedule. Neither saw their first before the age of One, reason being they are or were breast fed and had limited contact with other children and have impeccable hygiene so risk of contact with serious illness was low, too low IMO to justify exposing them to potential risk of complications related with vaccinations. My oldest was also of the age where autism amongst other diseases and complications were being brought into the limelight as caused by vaccinations. (supposedly disproven, who knows)
Now this big sensitive debate is still raging on by closed minded individuals on both sides of the table. You've got the anti vaccine people saying its poison and to blame for so many complications and you've got the pro vaccinators sayin your gonna make me or my kids sick cus you and your kids are not vaccinated go do it or you'll kill us all!
Both foolish. Medicine changes rapidly and it's peoples resistance to medicine that forces doctors and manufacturers to come up with less evasive less risky solutions to what ails us. It wasnt long ago cocaine was prescribed by doctors to numb pain and to keep you upbeat, it wasnt long ago heroin was prescribed by the same doctors for pain, it wasnt long ago doctors used to bleed out patients cus their skin was too red. I can go on. Medicine is often trial and error and sometimes the error isnt spotted for years. Thats why we should all be skeptics just be informed ones.
FYI for the fearful vaccinated, your protected from the diseases un vaccinated people are carrying after all you're vaccinated right?

[twitchyzero]

great argument
and heroin is still widely used in medicine

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

great argument
and heroin is still widely used in medicine

and cocaine too. if you ever have to get eye surgery, likely they drip liquid cocaine on your eyes.

the classical drugs are still widely used in medicine... and for fun lol.

[wasabisashimi]

Jesus H. tap-dancing Christ.


I can't believe how many people out there are against vaccinations under the pretense that the Government is secretly poisioning them, or that they don't work, or that it causes autism, or any number of other kooky half-baked bullshit reasons.


Nothing pisses me off more. Holy fuck people are so fucking retarded. Measels and other shit diseases are making comebacks because fucking morons read something on the internet and took it as gospel. That cunt Jenny McCarthy is probably responsible for the deaths of children due to spouting off complete bullshit that idiots eat up because she's a celebrity bitch.


The worst part is that two people I know just said "Kevin Trudeau shows facts on his website of why vaccines don't work!"

One google search:

Kevin Mark Trudeau is a convicted American fraud artist, author, radio personality, infomercial host, and salesman who promotes various unsubstantiated health, diet and financial "remedies"

Yet so many people choose to believe this guy over doctors who have gone to school for over a decade to provide medical care for people?


Seriously, we all need to call people out for being FUCKING RETARDS more often. Of course the people talking about this were single moms, people who lived at home with no jobs, or 9-5 retail workers.


:rukidding:

You need to not worry , if you are vaccinated, why are u so scared? You are protected, chill out. Am i right? Vaccines protect you.

But, if you care to read the facts and science from the right source instead of talking shit about peoples choice, you can start here ----Vaccination | Suzanne Humphries, MD (http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzanne-humphries-vaccines-vaccination/)

My point, no one is right or wrong, just make your informed choice. Do not to do things because its the social norm or peer pressure.

[wasabisashimi]

I am not even talking about the side effects at all( frankly, i dont care, tghe occurance is very low). I am talking about statistics, and about the immune response of a human being. If you are slightly educated on how the immune system work, we would not be here having debates. If you want to ignore them, fine. Dont be so judgemental.

[observer]

So because some mothers are not disciplined to get tested, everyone should risk their kids to get autism... great point.

Also lets say there is risk in the playground... there is no reason to risk the neurodevelopmental of ones child when its just a new born or before it could even walk by it self to reach a playground.

If you have any experience raising kids, you will realize that both infant and parents interact with many people, from the visiting nurses to friends and relatives, their babies and kids, babysitters, nannies.

The autism and vaccine myth has been debunked many times over, but then, some people prefer to rely on their faith - believing blindly without evidence.

Some people waste time in astrology, others in fortune tellers. Some believe Elvis is still alive too.

[CharlesInCharge]

Did Penn and Teller, the clown magicians debunk the autism myth?
I'll consider your advice when the Hep B mutates to become an air born virus.

[Soundy]

You need to not worry , if you are vaccinated, why are u so scared? You are protected, chill out. Am i right? Vaccines protect you.

Interesting piece here... be sure to read down to the part about "herd immunity".

http://globalnews.ca/news/1217732/the-real-war-on-vaccines/

[twdm]

Interesting piece here... be sure to read down to the part about "herd immunity".

The real war on vaccines | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/1217732/the-real-war-on-vaccines/)

I don't even bother arguing with these people. We should just have them sign a waiver form that waives them the right to free medical treatment for these preventable diseases.

Since they're so skeptical of medical treatment, let them go without it and die. Problem solved. While we're at it, add a non-vaccinated fee to their MSP for putting others at risk.

[wasabisashimi]

Interesting piece here... be sure to read down to the part about "herd immunity".

The real war on vaccines | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/1217732/the-real-war-on-vaccines/)

Herb immunity was in the article that I posted, here is the actual link if you care to read. ?Herd Immunity.? The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination (http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/07/05/herd-immunity-the-flawed-science-and-failures-of-mass-vaccination-suzanne-humphries-md-3/)

Herd immunity is a dream concept, should keep that term in a dictionary because that is not what has been observed.

“The affected high school had 276 students and was in the same building as a junior high school with 135 students. A review of health records in the high school showed that all 411 students had documentation of measles vaccination on or after the first birthday, in accordance with Illinois law.” [6] - See more at: ?Herd Immunity.? The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination, Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination (http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/07/05/herd-immunity-the-flawed-science-and-failures-of-mass-vaccination-suzanne-humphries-md-3/#sthash.rji68ZZ7.dpuf)

The above study found everyone who was sick were all vaccine updated since birth! How do you explain that? Someone sold them fake vaccines? Or could it be that their immune system failed to respond to the REAL SHIT or an altered form of virus?


I don't need to argue, I provided you articles with references of evidence which has found how vaccination is ineffective, and I wanted you to know how our immune system on its own with good nutrition and life style can do wonders.

And yet, You told me to read your article which is written without any references to studies except for stats from the CDC. That to me is like reading a sign " Best Chinese food in Las Vegas".....................:(

Like I said,
For those who were vaccinated to prevent disease, why are you so worried if an unvaccinated child sits next to you?

When we were all young, we were all vaccinated, I was shot 46 doses of vaccines on 16 different occasions before I turn 6 years old. Why? because we didn't have enough studies to conclude the effectiveness and our parents just did it because it was recommended/ Social Norm.

No, we are not debunking any myth about autism and other terrible paralysis from vaccines. We are debating on how the proper human immunity works

Anyways, I don't read articles that doesn't back up with much science, nor do I read articles of Anti-vaccine activist crying about how their kid had brain damage or paralytic illnesses after vaccination. Shit happens everyday.


I propose that the MSP should pay your vaccinated child money if you ever contracted these diseases anytime, since vaccines are suppose to protect you.

Oh by the way, I was diagnosed with chicken pox at grade 2, and so did my sister. We WERE vaccinated. I am a parent now, and I need to research for my child's future too. It's not really right or wrong either way. People do get a choice.


Also I had to mention, a lot of these older pro-vaccine data are looking at undeveloped countries whose citizens were in a very very bad living environment with poor nutritional intakes and hygiene.

[observer]

Did Penn and Teller, the clown magicians debunk the autism myth?
I'll consider your advice when the Hep B mutates to become an air born virus.

So many scientists from different countries all over the world had debunked the vaccine autism myth.

Thanks for the tip, didn't read about Penn and Teller's debunking but here it is, short and precise:

Penn and Teller on Vaccinations - YouTube

But judging from the way you reason, obviously no one would expect you to change your mind.

[observer]

Interesting piece here... be sure to read down to the part about "herd immunity".

The real war on vaccines | Globalnews.ca (http://globalnews.ca/news/1217732/the-real-war-on-vaccines/)

Good one, I tried to be objective and looked at the so called "International Medical Council on Vaccination".

I had my doubts when I see their stock photo on their web page :

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/doctors.jpg

With a contact us date January 4, 2011:

About | International Medical Council on Vaccination (http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/about/)

Looked into it a little more:

Suzanne Humphries - RationalWiki (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Suzanne_Humphries)

When I read she's into homeopathy, I rest my case.

Then I read about the bad reps of the organization, to me, when you google an organization, and the first half a dozen results are all complaints and ridicules, one should learn to be more skeptical.

The clueless cite the ignorant to argue against vaccines ? Respectful Insolence (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/02/03/the-clueless-cite-the-ignorant/)
International Medical Council on Vaccination (http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/medvoices.htm)
?Medical Voices? on vaccines: Brave, brave Sir Robin? « Science-Based Medicine (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/brave-brave-sir-robin/)
Questionable Organizations: An Overview (http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html)

[CharlesInCharge]

So many scientists from different countries all over the world had debunked the vaccine autism myth.

Thanks for the tip, didn't read about Penn and Teller's debunking but here it is, short and precise:

...
But judging from the way you reason, obviously no one would expect you to change your mind.

If you have any experience raising kids, you will realize ....You probably have kids...
Did you watch the short video I posted on the first page (post 12)? The initial news clip states that there has been wide spread concerns that Mercury based preservatives impair a childs neurological development... and it goes on to say that not one, but two new studies show the opposite where the Mercury actually helped with improved behavior and mental performance.
With this televised news, dont you think injecting your child with extra Mercury preservatives will give him/her the extra edge in life and school performance? Surely we'd all like honour roll children... next time your at the doctors, ask for these preservatives and what you want to do with them... see if they dont arrest you on the spot for being a mentally unfit parent.

[observer]

Did you watch the short video I posted on the first page (post 12)?

I think I have done a fair share of research into this matter.

I skimmed through the old video and have also found lots of articles debunking it:

Toxic myths about vaccines « Science-Based Medicine (http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/)

The sad reality is that the US is a nation of medical conspiracy nuts. (http://www.salon.com/2014/03/19/were_a_nation_of_medical_conspiracy_nuts/)

More science education is really needed, it's hard to imagine 1/3 of the US population rejects evolution, curious what the number is in Canada.

[CharlesInCharge]

Did you know that one group of international bankers funded both sides of the great world wars? After all these years the truth has come out yet try learning that in school or the universities of today and its nonexistent. "History is written by the victors."

Your sources are just like these falsified history books and lecturing professors.

They say 1/3 of Americans believe in Angels, apparently you do too sourcing the systems science.

vaccination and autism charts
https://www.google.com/search?q=vaccinations+autism+chart&client=firefox-a&hs=93w&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=bMoqU6rYNIv1oATS1oC4BA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=889&bih=513

[observer]

They say 1/3 of Americans believe in Angels, apparently you do too sourcing the systems science.

I think we have a serious disagreement on what science is.

[Soundy]

I think we have a serious disagreement on what science is.

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/science-bitch-700x393.jpg

[Phil@rise]

and cocaine too. if you ever have to get eye surgery, likely they drip liquid cocaine on your eyes.

the classical drugs are still widely used in medicine... and for fun lol.

Ive had minor eye surgery it wasnt liquid cocaine they used. It was something else that ended in caine, perhaps lidocaine?

[Phil@rise]

I read the global article and its nice to see a doctor has so little faith in the human immune system. He brings up the point of suggesting its unethical to expose our children to preventable illnesses. So if generations of kids are brought up with vaccines for everything in an attempt to protect them from every preventable disease what do we end up with? I for one would argue the point of evolution. we would end up with weaker humans dependant upon the advancements of medicine just to live. Herd immunity at what cost? And just how immune is the herd with so much meddling? Again I believe some vaccinations are good and needed it comes down to what kind of viruses you are likely to be exposed to and what of those viruses are deadly or cause permanent damage but vaccinating out of fear for everything is just silly

[gars]

I read the global article and its nice to see a doctor has so little faith in the human immune system. He brings up the point of suggesting its unethical to expose our children to preventable illnesses. So if generations of kids are brought up with vaccines for everything in an attempt to protect them from every preventable disease what do we end up with? I for one would argue the point of evolution. we would end up with weaker humans dependant upon the advancements of medicine just to live. Herd immunity at what cost? And just how immune is the herd with so much meddling? Again I believe some vaccinations are good and needed it comes down to what kind of viruses you are likely to be exposed to and what of those viruses are deadly or cause permanent damage but vaccinating out of fear for everything is just silly

Meddling? Modern Medicine is all about meddling. People naturally die - it's just science. We die from diseases, from physical trauma, etc etc. Modern Medicine is all about prolonging life as much as possible.

Good example of "meddling" - my friend's wife just gave birth a few weeks ago. Her and my friend have been taking pre-natal classes; many of the pre-natal classes offered really preach the whole natural birth thing. I get it - people think that too many drugs might damage their baby. However, when it came time for the labour, there were complications - the baby wouldn't come out, and she ended up having a c-section, though she was resistant to all the drugs at first because of their "birth plan".

They talked to the doctor afterwards, and asked - what would've happened in the olden days, without modern medicine. The doctor simply said - you would've died.

If we left it up to Evolution - a lot more people will die.

[white rocket]

My wife and I are currently discussing this as she is preggo. Do we vaccinate all at once at birth? Stagger over a few months thus not to traumatize? Not at all, let nature do it's thing? I'm currently researching this so I can't offer any insight as I'm a n00b. She's all for major vaccinations, staggered over a few months; but she also believes that the kid should be exposed to everything nature provides. Go play in the dirt, hell, eat some dirt, get dirty. Let nature provide it's own vaccinations as a tolerance will be built up in the process. I agree with that train of thought as well.

There is a fine line between responsible choices and having blind faith that a Higher Power will protect you.

[Soundy]

I read the global article and its nice to see a doctor has so little faith in the human immune system.
On the contrary: the core concept with vaccination is to stimulate and "train" natural immunity by introducing inert versions of otherwise dangerous diseases, BEFORE it has to deal with the more potent versions.

Take the author's statement about vaccinating for malaria before travelling to a malaria-prone area: people in that regions are less likely to have problems with it because there's been an overall immunity built up over time, but here where nobody ever sees it, there's no resistance at all. So essentially what's he's doing is telling his immune system, "Look, here's a little taste of what we're going to be running into soon... learn how to deal with it BEFORE we go."

[BrRsn]

My wife and I are currently discussing this as she is preggo. Do we vaccinate all at once at birth? Stagger over a few months thus not to traumatize? Not at all, let nature do it's thing? I'm currently researching this so I can't offer any insight as I'm a n00b. She's all for major vaccinations, staggered over a few months; but she also believes that the kid should be exposed to everything nature provides. Go play in the dirt, hell, eat some dirt, get dirty. Let nature provide it's own vaccinations as a tolerance will be built up in the process. I agree with that train of thought as well.

There is a fine line between responsible choices and having blind faith that a Higher Power will protect you.

Just keep in mind that your child will only get your wife's immune system, and for the first 6 months of his/her life, all they will have to fight off infections is their innate immune system (which will not clear some infections/viruses), and whatever your wife has immunity to (certain strains of influenza perhaps, etc).

Only after the first 6 months will they be able to mount adaptive responses to new infecting pathogens/viruses/bacteria etc.

My advice?
First 6 months = disinfect everything regularly, and take extreme care in food prep. Carry purell around and if that annoying aunt/uncle/sister wants to hold the baby, force them to use the hand sanitizer before they hold your kid! That's much more important than vaccinations, IMO

And back on the topic of the thread:
most of the stuff there's vaccinations for will be cleared by the vast majority of healthy people, even the 'outbreaks' of influenza only killed something like 30 people in Canada -- and the majority of them were immunocompromised (old, had AIDs, etc). I see absolutely no harm in getting a vaccination, but if you don't you won't die

[Phil@rise]

On the contrary: the core concept with vaccination is to stimulate and "train" natural immunity by introducing inert versions of otherwise dangerous diseases, BEFORE it has to deal with the more potent versions.

Take the author's statement about vaccinating for malaria before travelling to a malaria-prone area: people in that regions are less likely to have problems with it because there's been an overall immunity built up over time, but here where nobody ever sees it, there's no resistance at all. So essentially what's he's doing is telling his immune system, "Look, here's a little taste of what we're going to be running into soon... learn how to deal with it BEFORE we go."

They have a natural and much higher tolerance to the illnesses inherit to that region because evolution was allowed to take course. Now if you are not indigenous to the area understandably you dont have that tolerance and in the event you go there, get vaccinated for what will kill you there. Thats obvious. The problem I see is broad spectrum vaccination for diseases that arent an issue here. Canada has been polio free for over 20 years not many people know that but doctors have pushed that vaccine the whole time. Why? If you were going to India where the disease is still (or was) prevalent then get it. Again just an example of where we should be selective with our vaccinations.

[Phil@rise]

My wife and I are currently discussing this as she is preggo. Do we vaccinate all at once at birth? Stagger over a few months thus not to traumatize? Not at all, let nature do it's thing? I'm currently researching this so I can't offer any insight as I'm a n00b. She's all for major vaccinations, staggered over a few months; but she also believes that the kid should be exposed to everything nature provides. Go play in the dirt, hell, eat some dirt, get dirty. Let nature provide it's own vaccinations as a tolerance will be built up in the process. I agree with that train of thought as well.

There is a fine line between responsible choices and having blind faith that a Higher Power will protect you.

If your wife is breast feeding then the baby will get all the antibody IE immunities mommy has so there is no need for immediate vaccinations.
My wife and I chose a more holistic approach to the whole child birth and rearing thing. We didnt do it blindly tho we did countless hours of studying and research to educate ourselves best on it. In the end we went thru 48 hours of natural labor and I could go on about the nightmares of ignorant god complex doctors and nurses that wouldnt let my wife do what she was engineered to do and why it took so long but thats for another thread lol

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol don't we have any phd's in biology/biochemistry or MDs on here?

i'm 100% sure we have a handful... why haven't they spoken up?

or maybe there's no one that academically smart here hah...

it's your chance to speak up and educate 1000's of people reading. speak up.

[CharlesInCharge]

....

Canada has been polio free for over 20 years not many people know that but doctors have pushed that vaccine the whole time. Why? If you were going to India where the disease is still (or was) prevalent then get it. Again just an example of where we should be selective with our vaccinations.


Just look at how unknowing people are about the Hep B virus alone... I would love to see a hidden camera record an ignorant acting mom asking a doctor some of these key questions and see the lies that they're programed to give.

I also find it hilarious that member Soundy probably typed the longest post here about vaccinations and ridiculed people saying other wise, yet he has no position on the Hep B vaccines and continues to post mainstream propaganda as truths.

[Soundy]

B.C. measles spread as those with symptoms refusing to isolate - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-measles-problem-deepens-as-those-with-symptoms-refusing-to-isolate/article17591477/)

Okay, people... you don't want to get a needle in the arm, fine, you don't have to.

So stay the fuck home and stop spreading the disease. Or is that too mainstream?

[CharlesInCharge]

If the system you've been preaching about is wrong about giving babies Hep B vaccines, then they could be wrong about the other ones too.

How are you still debating in this thread if you dont want to clarify your position on that vaccine and made it out to be some personal view to get a pass?

And I'm not telling you any more about my personal thoughts on the matter

Its not like your personal thoughts are about how you feel about homosexuality, eugenics, food aid to foreign countries or if certain races are useless eaters and should die in which you dont want to disclose publicly.
This is a scientific question regarding vaccinations.

[wasabisashimi]

B.C. measles spread as those with symptoms refusing to isolate - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bc-measles-problem-deepens-as-those-with-symptoms-refusing-to-isolate/article17591477/)

Okay, people... you don't want to get a needle in the arm, fine, you don't have to.

So stay the fuck home and stop spreading the disease. Or is that too mainstream?

This I will agree, stay away from the public

[Soundy]

This is a scientific question regarding vaccinations.
Like I said, it's more entertaining to watch you keep spewing what you think I think... it opens all sorts of new vistas on your insanity, so by all means, keep it up.

[CharlesInCharge]

Sure I'll say what I think you think...
*I know Charles is probably right, but I'll blindly keep faith in the system to save face. :p

[Soundy]

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u614/hellhound1983/cool-story-bro-2_zps43d8efbb.jpg

[underscore]

How many of you anti vax/anti modern medicine people are over 35? Because if memory serves, back in ye olden days, you'd be dead. Likely from one of the many things the rest of the world got tired of dying from.

Before you go spewing any more anti-vax shit, weigh the "side effects" of the vaccine against the death toll if that vaccine didn't exist. What sounds better, a few people have complications, or thousands die?

[CharlesInCharge]

There's a difference when these toxins are injected.
The Effect of Aluminum in Vaccines on Humans - YouTube

Now after watching that video, the CDC itself says 1 in 6 kids get mental problems and 1 in 54 boys get autism... guess the cause of these complications.
About 1 in 6 children in the U.S. had a developmental disability in 2006-2008, ranging from mild disabilities such as speech and language impairments to serious developmental disabilities, such as intellectual disabilities, cerebral palsy, and autism.CDC | Data and Statistics | Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) | NCBDDD (http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html)

[underscore]

Assuming every child with mental problems had it caused by vaccines (complete BS scenario), that's roughly 17% with mental problems and 1.85% with autism. Measles alone has a 90% infection rate amongst non-vaccinated people who come into contact with someone infected, and in non-developed areas (ie low vax rates) a death rate from 10-30%, and in some cases as high as 50-70%.

That's 9-60% of the population killed by measles alone if we stopped immunizing against it. Factor in a few more diseases that we can be vaccinated against and even in a best-case disease scenario you'll still easily be above any possible worst-case mental health side effect scenario (and that's assuming that there is a link, which I doubt).

[CharlesInCharge]

Those are some big claims.
Why are the underdeveloped countries dying off in such large numbers... does it have to do with their DNA?

[Graeme S]

Those are some big claims.
Why are the underdeveloped countries dying off in such large numbers... does it have to do with their DNA?
It has to do with them not having been vaccinated. The numbers were the same for the western world before vaccination.

[RacingMetro92]

Soundy is doing the exact same shit you did in your thread chuck. It's only fair. If someone asks a question, answer it directly instead of dancing around it like you did until I was tired of your bullshit and you admitted you were a racist bigot by not answering any of the questions I posed to you in your thread.

Simply put, don't vaccinate your kids and face the consequences. These "side effects" still outweigh killing off a large chunk of the population in the long run.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Soundy]

I'm not even dancing around it in Chuck-like fashion, I'm outright refusing to give him an answer, because he already seems to think he knows my opinions on the matter.

Edit: more to the point, it doesn't matter WHAT I say my opinion is... Chuckie will proceed to educate me as to what my opinion REALLY is, and it will be something completely out in left field. So I figure... no point in saying anything when he's going to make up an interpretation anyway.

[CharlesInCharge]

It has to do with them not having been vaccinated. The numbers were the same for the western world before vaccination.Your sources?

[multicartual]

I predict a future with balkanized societies where people will choose to live in communities away from anti-vax people.

Then when the non-vaccinated people start dying off en masse, we will see Darwin at work

[CharlesInCharge]

The immune system is more complex then scientist can imagine. People who are vaccinated with measles are actually more susceptible to the disease.... so yes we would truly see Darwinism at work... unfortunately in this situation you would be at the declining end multicartual.
Estimated susceptibility to asymptomatic seconda... [J Med Virol. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9700638)

[observer]

How many of you anti vax/anti modern medicine people are over 35? Because if memory serves, back in ye olden days, you'd be dead. Likely from one of the many things the rest of the world got tired of dying from.

Before you go spewing any more anti-vax shit, weigh the "side effects" of the vaccine against the death toll if that vaccine didn't exist. What sounds better, a few people have complications, or thousands die?

One cannot downplay the importance of proper science education, in high school and in university.

[multicartual]

so yes we would truly see Darwinism at work... unfortunately in this situation you would be at the declining end multicartual.


Yes, and there was once a husky Iranian gentleman who claimed to do the Grouse Grind in 43 minutes, and to his claim, and yours, I say:


My ass!

[CharlesInCharge]

Not credible enough for you... this one supposedly came from the CDC.
Babies Of Vaccinated Mothers Susceptible To Measles (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/vaccinated-babies-susceptible-to-measles.aspx)

[observer]

I predict a future with balkanized societies where people will choose to live in communities away from anti-vax people.

Then when the non-vaccinated people start dying off en masse, we will see Darwin at work

May not be that simple.

I just feel for families in the following story, living at the mercy of the selfish anti vaccine stupid bastards.

Anti-vaccination parents are risking my toddler?s life, mother says (http://www.theprovince.com/health/Anti+vaccination+parents+risking+toddler+life+moth er+says/9642041/story.html)

[CharlesInCharge]

Insert SNL's media-opoly video

Observer care to show us a chart of how vaccines stopped/reduced measles?

[underscore]

What I find even more ridiculous than the people refuses vaccines is that some cunts are actually refusing to quarantine themselves and their children after they catch a disease. They are now actively and intentionally spreading the disease, whether your pro or anti vax that's a downright asshole move.

One cannot downplay the importance of proper science education, in high school and in university.

You don't even need the science, anyone with a basic grasp of grade 3 math can sort this out.

X = Death rate from vaccine side effects (assuming they even exist)
Y = Death rate from disease being vaccinated against

If X < Y, take the vaccine and shut the fuck up.

[CharlesInCharge]

I asked you question in post 159 if you missed it.

[Phil@rise]

Playing devils advocate here.
Many if not most of the illnesses or diseases people vaccinate themselves for are not deadly just 7 to 10 days of healing is needed, a minor hiccup in the road of life.

[Traum]

Playing devils advocate here.
Many if not most of the illnesses or diseases people vaccinate themselves for are not deadly just 7 to 10 days of healing is needed, a minor hiccup in the road of life.
Hmm... :suspicious:

measles -- 90% infection rate, up to 30% death rate
mumps -- very low death rate, but there is a 30% chance that males will get hit with painful testicular swelling, 27% risk of spontaneous abortion in 1st time pregnant women, and 10% risk of mild meningitis
flu - could result in life-threatening complications, esp for the weak, young, elderly, and chronically ill
hepatitis -- causes irreparable damage to the liver and liver failure, possibly requiring transplant
HPV -- lead to possibilities of cancers of the cervix, vulva, vagina, penis, oropharynx, anus, and throat
polio -- 1% chance of irreparable central nervous system damage (motor neurons)

Should I really list more? I'd hardly consider these "minor hiccups in the road of life".

[CharlesInCharge]

Members like to make statements without backing up where this information is coming from... Traum tell me you're not relaying this from what you heard at your last yoga class or basketball game... since were talking about measles, can you provide statistics to prove this 30% death rate.

[Traum]

^^ The info is obtained from Wikipedia. Hardly an authoritative source of medical information, but generally their info is not that far off.

If you do not know that measles is highly contagious, or that flu is especially dangerous for the elderly (leading to deaths every flu season), or that hepatitis causes irreparable liver damage, that HPV is capable of causing cancer, or that polio can cause irreparable damage to motor neurons, you are simply beyond ignorant.

As to mumps, I have no interest in finding out how painful that testicular swelling could get. Perhaps you would like to volunteer to find out first hand?

[CharlesInCharge]

Exactly, Wikipedia is hardly an authoritative source of medical information... lets see you think for yourself and research measles statistics please... preferably charts because in this year of 2014 there should plenty of information available.

[Traum]

Exactly, Wikipedia is hardly an authoritative source of medical information... lets see you think for yourself and research measles statistics please... preferably charts because in this year of 2014 there should plenty of information available.
I have no time to waste on you. Read this and go fxxk yourself:

WHO | Measles (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/)


- Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.

-In 2012, there were 122 000 measles deaths globally – about 330 deaths every day or 14 deaths every hour.

-Measles vaccination resulted in a 78% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2012 worldwide.

[CharlesInCharge]

I have no time to waste on you. Read this and go fxxk yourself:

WHO | Measles (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/)Is this a REVscene first for a post with the word please in it to get told "go fxxk yourself" afterwords?

Does anyone else like to give this a try... I'd like to see a chart showing measles reduction thanks to vaccination.

[underscore]

Not credible enough for you... this one supposedly came from the CDC.
Babies Of Vaccinated Mothers Susceptible To Measles (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/vaccinated-babies-susceptible-to-measles.aspx)

Except if vaccinations are done right, thanks to herd immunity those babies are less likely to be exposed to measles. Not to mention at least some of those mothers would have been dead long before they had children if nobody was vaccinated.

The immune system is more complex then scientist can imagine. People who are vaccinated with measles are actually more susceptible to the disease.... so yes we would truly see Darwinism at work... unfortunately in this situation you would be at the declining end multicartual.
Estimated susceptibility to asymptomatic seconda... [J Med Virol. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9700638)

Tell me then, if the vaccine makes you more susceptible to the disease, why do regions with high immunization rates show decreases in cases of the disease? Canada should be pushing 100% infection and 50% death rates if that were true.

Exactly, Wikipedia is hardly an authoritative source of medical information... lets see you think for yourself and research measles statistics please... preferably charts because in this year of 2014 there should plenty of information available.

Says the guy who manipulates words and pulls his info from some crazy hacks.

Playing devils advocate here.
Many if not most of the illnesses or diseases people vaccinate themselves for are not deadly just 7 to 10 days of healing is needed, a minor hiccup in the road of life.

And the black plague was just a cold right? Like I said before, measles alone would be 90% infection rate and 30% death rate with no immunization. Hardly a "minor hiccup".

[CharlesInCharge]

I'd like you to answer my question first.

[underscore]

Is this a REVscene first for a post with the word please in it to get told "go fxxk yourself" afterwords?

Does anyone else like to give this a try... I'd like to see a chart showing measles reduction thanks to vaccination.

Here, I made you one.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/whyexactly/Measles_zps71e535b2.png

[CharlesInCharge]

Post 159 was my original question to you... but anyway this chart doesnt show how vaccinations reduced measles deaths.

[underscore]

Those are some big claims.
Why are the underdeveloped countries dying off in such large numbers... does it have to do with their DNA?

Do I really need to explain to you that part of being a developed country means having a sufficient health care system? Therefore undeveloped areas lack sufficient health care resulting in low vaccination rates.

[underscore]

Post 159 was my original question to you... but anyway this chart doesnt show how vaccinations reduced measles deaths.

Oh I'm sorry, here you go. The upper chart is % of children vaccinated by 1 vs year, the lower chart is the deaths vs year.

SPOILER ALERT! As vaccinations go up, deaths go down.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b139/whyexactly/Measles2_zps832ceb09.png

[CharlesInCharge]

edit - ok
but measles didnt spring up just in the year 2000, this is a misleading chart... you have been mislead. Where did you find this Im curious.

Do I really need to explain to you that part of being a developed country means having a sufficient health care system? Therefore undeveloped areas lack sufficient health care resulting in low vaccination rates.
That is not the case, but lets skip that, you say its because of low vaccinations as member Graeme did... so you should be able to find a measles death rate over time chart including the introduction of vaccines and how it reduced it.

[underscore]

so you should be able to find a measles death rate over time chart including the introduction of vaccines and how it reduced it.

That's exactly what I just fucking posted. :rukidding:

[underscore]

edit - ok
but measles didnt spring up just in the year 2000, this is a misleading chart... you have been mislead. Where did you find this Im curious.

You're right, it didn't start in 2000, but it's not misleading anything. There's two columns in each, as vaccination rates go up, deaths go down.

If you look at the first chart, in 1980 with very little vaccination going on, 2,600,000 died each year from measles alone.

By 2000, vaccination has gotten to 72% in children before age 1, and deaths are down to 562,400/yr.

By 2012, vaccination has gotten to 84% in children before age 1, and deaths are down to 122,000/yr.

Would a line graph work better for you? Pie chart? Bar? Scatter?

[mr_chin]

edit - ok
but measles didnt spring up just in the year 2000, this is a misleading chart... you have been mislead. Where did you find this Im curious.


That is not the case, but lets skip that, you say its because of low vaccinations as member Graeme did... so you should be able to find a measles death rate over time chart including the introduction of vaccines and how it reduced it.

Lol CiC, he made it by himself. Chart doesn't even have a title or anything.

[Soundy]

Would a line graph work better for you? Pie chart? Bar? Scatter?
Infographics are how the cool kids organize data these days.

Create infographics & online charts | infogr.am (http://infogr.am/)

[CharlesInCharge]

To underscore
If we're doing a study of rape in Canada, do we only look at the statistics starting from 1980 for the overall picture?

[underscore]

How many ways are you going to try to deny that increasing immunization has decreased deaths?

If 1980 was the starting point for some rape prevention system, then yes start at 1980 when trying to show the effectiveness of that system. Since the use of that system has risen since 1980, then that years statistics are the most accurate representation of how things would be today without that system in place.

[CharlesInCharge]

I think you like to debate for the sake of debating... or this information isnt readily available for you to pull up for some reason.
Maybe someone else can find it.

[underscore]

Is the WHO not good enough for you? You've got information from a well respected organization in both text and graphical format, what more do you want?

[RacingMetro92]

Or you can go do it yourself when you tell people to. People are pulling up relevant info, but because it doesn't support your view, you ignore it and ask for more. WHEN THE DATA YOU WANT IS RIGHT THERE. Whenever you want an answer, if it's not self-serving you completely ignore it.

Dodging Soundy's question/rebutting his statement again, it's comical at this point.

It's been stated so many times in this thread. Immunization has decreased deaths. If measles wasn't curable, then the death rates have been posted. Go read that yourself, it's all there, from government sources. Oh wait, because it's "mainstream" you instantly reject it even though its still data you're asking for. For you, data from conspiracy sites using blogspot as their domain is credible...yeah, right.

[CharlesInCharge]

Im a loony conspiracy theorists, so its better you guys pull out this information.

Underscore find me charts like the following but on measles.
http://i.imgur.com/fba70oF.jpg

[CharlesInCharge]

Look at these Polio ones... specially the years.
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/harpub/pol_all.gif
http://www.vaclib.org/sites/harpub/pol12-70.gif
http://i.imgur.com/rBrGITW.jpg

Source http://www.vaclib.org/sites/harpub/pol_all.htm

[CharlesInCharge]

This ones interesting
http://i.imgur.com/I6Wyak9.jpg

edit - another one showing vaccine caused Polio
http://www.iayork.com/Images/2008/8-31-08/PolioJAMA04.png
source http://www.iayork.com/MysteryRays/page/6/?s=HIV

[xpl0sive]

kind of a related topic.... to what lengths will people go to keep people alive? How much will we develop medicine? When will we reach a point where birth rates greatly exceed death rates? Will we start running out of room? Food? Fresh water?

http://www.financial-spread-betting.com/community/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/populationgrowthhistory2.jpg

since the 1950's or just after WWII, world population has more than doubled. As there have been no large conflicts since then, health care has greatly improved, people are living longer, having more kids, there are a lot more people living than dying. How long can we sustain this type of growth for?

[mac25]

I'm not saying in all cases vaccines should not be used, they have helped a lot.

However i disagree with the OPs statements that every one should be vaccinated to keep disease in check.

They are not natural and should not be injected into the human body unless need is apparent (if there is a localized out brake).

Vaccines have been contaminated in the past, possibly intentionally to sell other products. You have to remember it is in the best interests of drug companies that they make you believe you need a vaccination.

Just google "Baxter International contaminated vaccine". Which is one well documented case where a vaccine, weather by mistake or not, was detrimental to a populations health.

[PeanutButter]

How I know some vaccines work....
Just look up the prevalence or incidence of polio. The prevalence of polio is less than 1% according to the World Health Organization.

WHO | Poliomyelitis (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs114/en/)
Prevention of polio

There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented. Polio vaccine, given multiple times, can protect a child for life.


How effective is the flu shot? Pretty shitty. In every flu shot, there are only three strains in each shot. How many strains of the flu are there? Over 300. So there is a pretty low chance of the flu shot actually being effective. Though, I was looking up incidence this year of the flu shot and the effectiveness of this years flu shot was actually very high. I don't have the study and i'm too lazy to find it, but this years flu shot was highly effective vs. the years past where the flu shot was not very effective.


Should you vaccinate your child with the Mumps, Measels, Rubella vaccine? I would. Can you get away with not vaccinating your kid with it? Yes.

If you live in a highly populated city, then the heard immunity is very high, I think it's around 90+%. So the chances your kid will get a MMR disease is pretty low, so not vaccinating your kid isn't the end of the world. Though, if everyone thought like this, then the heard immunity would be really low.

If you live in cottage country or in the burbs and the heard immunity is low, then I would probably vaccinate my kid. Unless someone actually finds me an actual peer reviewed article that says vaccinations are harmful, then you can't really argue otherwise. Just to clarify, just because the flu vaccine isn't always effective, doesn't mean it's harmful.


Thought this was interesting too..

How do vaccines cause autism? (http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/)

[wasabisashimi]

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/0707275measleslog.jpg

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/images/stories/graphs/uk-measles-1838-1978.jpg

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/images/stories/graphs/us-measles.jpg

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/images/stories/graphs/us-deaths-1900-1965.jpg

http://jdc325.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/measles-notifications-and-vaccine-uptake.jpg
Yes, there are about 170 000 measles deaths per years world wide (2008 figures), but, as the World Health Organisation (WHO) states:

“The overwhelming majority (more than 95%)of measles deaths occur in countries with low per capita incomes and weak health infrastructures…Most measles deaths are caused by complications associated with the diseases” and

“Severe measles is more likely among poorly nourished young children, especially those with insufficient vitamin A, or whose immune systems have been weakened by HIV/AIDS or other diseases…. As high as 10% of measles cases result in death among populations with high levels of malnutrition and lack of adequate health care”1

Are children in Europe and the United States suffering from malnutrition?

Does your child have HIV/AIDS?

If not, why all the fuss?


The trend is positively on the decline! Can we just think about it, why is all the credit going to Vaccination but not the advancement of medical treatment post-infection or better hygiene in the developed world and better nutritional value plus better parenting education of sickness management?

Why are you giving credits to the "synthetic oil you put in your car" so it runs trouble-free? Don't you give credit to yourself for being " a good responsible owner, regular oil change and having a competent trusty mechanic from RS sponsor page" ( pardon me for the REVSCENE metaphor)

[Graeme S]

http://childhealthsafety.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/0707275measleslog.jpg

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/images/stories/graphs/uk-measles-1838-1978.jpg

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/images/stories/graphs/us-measles.jpg

http://www.healthsentinel.com/joomla/images/stories/graphs/us-deaths-1900-1965.jpg

http://jdc325.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/measles-notifications-and-vaccine-uptake.jpg



The trend is positively on the decline! Can we just think about it, why is all the credit going to Vaccination but not the advancement of medical treatment post-infection or better hygiene in the developed world and better nutritional value plus better parenting education of sickness management?

Why are you giving credits to the "synthetic oil you put in your car" so it runs trouble-free? Don't you give credit to yourself for being " a good responsible owner, regular oil change and having a competent trusty mechanic from RS sponsor page" ( pardon me for the REVSCENE metaphor)
To be fair, if you're going to make a car-based example, you might want to consider this a proper break-in of the engine before tearing it up.

Also, people are praising the vaccine because the types of care that we receive are much better these days, and are not really as optional as the vaccine.


To take your original metaphor and expand on it, the vaccine is much like a rebuilt engine. If broken in properly, you can be virtually guaranteed that with minimal maintenance you're good to go. If it's not broken in properly, however, you may find that it burns oil or runs rough, which will need more work (treatment) later.

[CharlesInCharge]

I know a guy who knows a guy that sells Ebola vaccines for a good price, PM me for details.
*Side effects include mental degradation... but for the peace of mind its priceless.

p.s. thank you wasabisashimi for cracking the measles disinformation that members here are spreading. Vitamin A deficiency was key in the deaths of so many people... oddly enough a few of the mainstream measles vaccine sites never mentioned anything about it... its a conspiracy.


edit
these are some of the measles resources I have... which talk about other vaccinations too.
http://www.dissolvingillusions.com/chapters/chapter-14/
http://www.anh-europe.org/ANH+Book+Review+Dissolving+Illusions+by+Suzanne+Hu mphries+MD+and+Roman+Bystrianyk
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/12/vaccines-a-peek-beneath-the-hood-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md
http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzanne-humphries-vaccines-vaccination/
http://vaxtruth.org/?s=measles
http://healthyprotocols.com/2_vaccine.htm
http://www.vaclib.org/intro/measles-intro.htm

[CharlesInCharge]

The last of the videos I'll be posting

Vacciness -The truth behind vaccinations- - YouTube

Silent Epidemic; The Untold Story of Vaccines Movie dire - YouTube


Here's a plane spraying DDT over a city to prevent Polio... makes you think if it was all on purpose.
_youtube.com/watch?v=pJs1tlTof_s

[Graeme S]

I know a guy who knows a guy that sells Ebola vaccines for a good price, PM me for details.


Only in if your friend has friends who have connections.

[observer]

At the end of the day, it's all about assessing likelihood. Which is more likely, a multinational conspiracy with 99% corrupted doctors distributing poison vaccine, or do you believe in Jenny McCarthy.

Based on the arguments in this thread, it's pretty obvious which makes more sense to me.

[CharlesInCharge]

Jenny McCarthy often gets named to discredit the movement... why not Jim Carrey with all the goofy things he does http://i.imgur.com/irCnQgR.jpg

Its interesting to note that doctors and hospitals are the 3rd top killers of Americans and Canadian after heart disease and cancer.

[wasabisashimi]

To be fair, if you're going to make a car-based example, you might want to consider this a proper break-in of the engine before tearing it up.

Also, people are praising the vaccine because the types of care that we receive are much better these days, and are not really as optional as the upvaccine.


To take your original metaphor and expand on it, the vaccine is much like a rebuilt engine. If broken in properly, you can be virtually guaranteed that with minimal maintenance you're good to go. If it's not broken in properly, however, you may find that it burns oil or runs rough, which will need more work (treatment) later.


That's why an infant shouldn't be injected with anything that early in the stage of life. Their immune system haven't been broken in. Putting these foreign things whether toxic or benign will cause long term effects, such as allergies, autoimmune disorder like arthritis or other disorders involving hyperactive immune function.
Posted via RS Mobile

[wasabisashimi]

Back when we were growing up, I don't remember peanut allergy was so wide spread or seasonal allergies effecting my kid friends. We would runaround naked, get mmosquito bites that didn't swell up like kid's nowadays. I mean this is all great for allergy medicine makers because almost everyone gets allergies of some sort at least for my group of friends and their kids.
Posted via RS Mobile

[underscore]

The trend is positively on the decline! Can we just think about it, why is all the credit going to Vaccination but not the advancement of medical treatment post-infection or better hygiene in the developed world and better nutritional value plus better parenting education of sickness management?

That actually brings up a related point, while the deaths may have been on the decline, what about the numbers regarding non-fatal cases of the disease? What about the strain on the medical system? Just because the hospitals are gov't run here doesn't mean the resources are endless. The increased load could cause delays that may cause other ailments to become fatal or have further complications.

And at the end of the day, do you want to put your kids through catching it, and the complications that may be involved?

[underscore]

edit
these are some of the measles resources I have... which talk about other vaccinations too.
Chapter 14 | Dissolving Illusions (http://www.dissolvingillusions.com/chapters/chapter-14/)
ANH Book Review: ?Dissolving Illusions? by Suzanne Humphries, MD and Roman Bystrianyk (http://www.anh-europe.org/ANH+Book+Review+Dissolving+Illusions+by+Suzanne+Hu mphries+MD+and+Roman+Bystrianyk)
Vaccines: a peek beneath the hood. ~ By Roman Bystrianyk and Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination (http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/11/12/vaccines-a-peek-beneath-the-hood-by-roman-bystrianyk-and-suzanne-humphries-md)
Vaccination | Suzanne Humphries, MD (http://drsuzanne.net/dr-suzanne-humphries-vaccines-vaccination/)
measles | Search Results | VaxTruth.org (http://vaxtruth.org/?s=measles)
Vaccines (http://healthyprotocols.com/2_vaccine.htm)
Vaccination Liberation Information (http://www.vaclib.org/intro/measles-intro.htm)

A bunch of blogs and conspiracy sites written by a handful of people vs the WHO? Seriously?

[twdm]

That's why an infant shouldn't be injected with anything that early in the stage of life. Their immune system haven't been broken in. Putting these foreign things whether toxic or benign will cause long term effects, such as allergies, autoimmune disorder like arthritis or other disorders involving hyperactive immune function.
Posted via RS Mobile

I've been holding back on commenting in this thread, but I think this comment is a breaking point.

Where the fuck is your evidence? Where are your credentials? Long term side effects? Do you have a double-blind placebo trial on infants that somehow passed through a medical ethics board that I'm not aware of? You're telling me that someone funded a 60-70 year trial comparing whether people who was vacinnated had more autoimmune disorders?

You come across to me like a gluten-free-food-loving hippie that doesn't even have a clue what gluten is.

[CharlesInCharge]

Much intellect in forum, much evidence, great credentials.

Thimerosal (mercury) in vaccines not tested
Thimerosal (mercury) in vaccines not tested since 1929! - YouTube

Study: Immune System Has Dramatic Impact on Children’s Brain Development
New research from the University of Virginia School of Medicine has revealed the dramatic effect the immune system has on the brain development of young children.
...
determined that the more days infants suffered fever, the worse they performed on developmental tests at 12 and 24 months. They also found that elevated levels of inflammation-causing proteins in the blood were associated with worse performance,
...
“The problem we sought to address was why millions of young children in low- and middle-income countries are not attaining their full developmental potential,”
....
physicians may be able to enhance children’s mental ability for a lifetime.
...
“By studying which early childhood influences are associated with hindrances to growth and learning
...
the finding illuminates the complex relationship between the immune system and cognitive development
... Study: Immune System Has Dramatic Impact on Children?s Brain Development | UVA Today (http://news.virginia.edu/content/study-immune-system-has-dramatic-impact-children-s-brain-development)

[wasabisashimi]

I've been holding back on commenting in this thread, but I think this comment is a breaking point.

Where the fuck is your evidence? Where are your credentials? Long term side effects? Do you have a double-blind placebo trial on infants that somehow passed through a medical ethics board that I'm not aware of? You're telling me that someone funded a 60-70 year trial comparing whether people who was vacinnated had more autoimmune disorders?

You come across to me like a gluten-free-food-loving hippie that doesn't even have a clue what gluten is.

I feel like i am talking to a wall. I do not need to show my credentials or my diet diary to prove anything to you. Why do you feel the need to win this debate? The only thing you win is " name calling with aggressive tone"!

I've seen one pulled the "give me the Double-Blinded, Meta-analysis....." mumbo jumbo line as a counter attack because they just simply can't or won't understand the physiology provided.

Was I suggesting that I am 100% correct or telling you the only Truth?

Let me point to you for the last time, this is the EASIEST way to understand how our immune system work. If you still won't read it or understand it, so be it. It is my failure to find ways for you to digest Physiology textbook.

Ignore all parts of the article but concentrate on the middle part when this person explains HUMORAL immunity vs Cell-Mediated Immunity
http://www.liveto110.com/vaccinations-cause-chronic-immune-system-dysregulation/


This next part also provides more possibilities of autoimmune disorder, I won't force you to read it because it is not about "double-blind trial with placenbo control and then polished with heavy meta-analytic statistical genius
[Autoimmune diseases: Vaccines as a possible trigger (http://www.smartvax.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=102)

The bottom line: Suppressed cell-mediated immune response with a over-active humoral immune response = Allergies, or in some context autoimmune disorder. This is in the text book, in the Merc Manual, in Wikipedia if you will.

Here is car analogy again: Think hybrid car! Cell-mediated is your electric motor, Humoral system is your gas motor. Too much lead-foot driving will lose gas milage since you are purely driving on gas motor without activating your electric motor.

Again not everyone treats their body like a hybrid car. You may think you are an expensive sports car and go live a rock-star party life style, just wait for your monthly gas and maintence bill.

I am done trying my best in educating with facts and mechanisms. If you can Stop focusing on the side effects, the big pharma conspiracy ,and Jenny McCarthy, you will actually learn a little about science.

[wasabisashimi]

That actually brings up a related point, while the deaths may have been on the decline, what about the numbers regarding non-fatal cases of the disease? What about the strain on the medical system? Just because the hospitals are gov't run here doesn't mean the resources are endless. The increased load could cause delays that may cause other ailments to become fatal or have further complications.

And at the end of the day, do you want to put your kids through catching it, and the complications that may be involved?

Strain on the medical system? What about people who drinks pop, eat fast food and dont exercise?
These people become obesed, develop diabetes, required bi weekly antibiotic IVs, and some needing kidney dialysis and amputations. What about their risks of heart attack and stroke?
Do they strain the ER wait time, out-patient treatment seating area, or hospital beds?
What about the medications they need to take? Insulin, metformin, atenolol, statin drugs and ace inhibitors?

Do u need me to go on and on about hospital strains in our society? I thought not!

If by the previous definition that those who wont vaccinate should pay more MSP fee, i can find lots more income source for the MSP, such as fat people, drug addicts, and people who travels alot between continents that may bring in diseases or foreign pest/bugs, and parents who let their kids play in the cold with barely a t shirt on during cold but sunny winter month........etc

[twdm]

I feel like i am talking to a wall. I do not need to show my credentials or my diet diary to prove anything to you. Why do you feel the need to win this debate? The only thing you win is " name calling with aggressive tone"!

I've seen one pulled the "give me the Double-Blinded, Meta-analysis....." mumbo jumbo line as a counter attack because they just simply can't or won't understand the physiology provided.
I am done trying my best in educating with facts and mechanisms. If you can Stop focusing on the side effects and Jenny McCarthy, you will actually learn a little about science.

Well I guess my professional degree in a healthcare field is completely useless compared to your hippy science. If you don't understand what different levels of evidence mean in science, nor do you understand different types of studies or trials, how can you claim to understand science?

Physiology does not explain everything. There are hundreds of medications where we have no idea how it works. The now current standards of practice in treating heart failure was counterintuitive to the physiology of heart failure. There are countless other examples I could bring up, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and can only pull shit out of your ass.

Finally, you are talking to a wall that practices healthcare everyday. I don't need you to convince me, nor the countless other healthcare professionals who analyze, practice and rely on only properly conducted trials. I'm just stopping you from spewing your bullshit and calling you out for what you are: Ignorant.

Edit:
Just looked at the smartvax website. Notice how not a single person was willing to put their name behind the words on the website?

[wasabisashimi]

By the way, i do not know the age group in this discussion, but it would be interesting to find out how many of us have been recently vaccinated?
If most of us didnt get vaccinated since 15-20 yrs ago, how do we know we still have immunity without testing it. It would be blind faith in vaccine's therotical expiry date, while blaming your neighbors unvaccinated child. I am having trouble finding an actual duration of vaccine protection. All i can find is it may be shorter than it was claimed from the estimated life. We may all need to be revaccinated.
We dont even have enough data to give a proper effective duration. If we want to make sure we eradicate the disease, they willl need to implement a testing session for everyone and revaccinate who ever arent showing protection anymore. Otherwise, many of us are just hypocites while blaming our neighbor's unvaccinated kid.

[CharlesInCharge]

1 in 38 children in south Korea are said to have autism... Anyone read Korean? please find the north Korean figures. Since the south is occupied by the U.S. and follow the same standards, I'd like to compare the figures.

edit
One other thing, what is Iowa doing different then other the states to have such low autism rates.
http://i.imgur.com/GvUL6rr.jpg

[wasabisashimi]

Well I guess my professional degree in a healthcare field is completely useless compared to your hippy science. If you don't understand what different levels of evidence mean in science, nor do you understand different types of studies or trials, how can you claim to understand science?

Physiology does not explain everything. There are hundreds of medications where we have no idea how it works. The now current standards of practice in treating heart failure was counterintuitive to the physiology of heart failure. There are countless other examples I could bring up, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and can only pull shit out of your ass.

Finally, you are talking to a wall that practices healthcare everyday. I don't need you to convince me, nor the countless other healthcare professionals who analyze, practice and rely on only properly conducted trials. I'm just stopping you from spewing your bullshit and calling you out for what you are: Ignorant.

Edit:
Just looked at the smartvax website. Notice how not a single person was willing to put their name behind the words on the website?

I am really interested in your professional health care degree now, because i would like to learn how to tell hippie from non-hippies as well as how to judge websites by its mystery operator. Also are you admiting that some of our health protocols are wrong and need to be reevaluted? Maybe we need to reevaluate the vaccination schedule and come up a relayed solution? Or we can sit here evaluate our ability to read .

[twdm]

I am really interested in your professional health care degree now, because i would like to learn how to tell hippie from non-hippies as well as how to judge websites by its mystery operator. Also are you admiting that some of our health protocols are wrong and need to be reevaluted? Maybe we need to reevaluate the vaccination schedule and come up a relayed solution? Or we can sit here evaluate our ability to read .

Clearly you also failed in english comprehension. Of course everything needs to be re-evaluated when there is compelling evidence to the contrary. I merely said physiology alone does not predict outcomes.

You however, are using hocus pocus websites with absolutely zero basis in the scientific process to discredit years of scientific research. You are willing to trust websites with mystery authors and zero credibility over trusted health care professionals with years of experience and expertise.

It's clear you've been drinking the same kool-aid as CiC. Unfortunately a recent study linked this said kool-aid with autism and mental retardation. Read it on some website. Must be true since you're displaying the symptoms.

[CharlesInCharge]

I think I found something significant here, twdm you have a degree, care to reply?


Iowa's autism rate looks about the same as other states in 1999
AUTISM RATES 1999 (http://www.bbbautism.com/autism_rates_1999.htm)
http://i.imgur.com/x1XxQpK.jpg


Then Iowa becomes the first state to ban mercury based vaccines ~2005
Vaccine additive banned in Iowa
....
Earlier this year, the state became the first in the nation to ban the use of preservatives in childhood vaccines.

In 1999, when it was discovered that immunized children had accidentally been exposed to mercury levels well over federal limits, the American Academy of Pediatrics called for thimerosal to be removed from vaccines as a precaution.

It was eliminated from nearly all vaccines except the one used for the flu.
...
Vaccine additive banned in Iowa (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/1535212/posts)



Look these changes in rates!
http://247wallst.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/change-in-school-autism-rates-by-state.jpg
Source - Can America Afford The Rising Cost Of Autism? - 24/7 Wall St. (http://247wallst.com/investing/2011/03/10/can-america-afford-the-rising-cost-of-autism-education/)

[BrRsn]

Charles there is one study done in 1998 that linked autism to vaccination and it was debunked several times over by several government operated bodies, and private research labs. There simply is no correlation between getting a vaccine and autism.

The link has arose due to bro-science (you know, the type of science you practice). The time that autism is diagnosed is roughly the same time that the first vaccinations are administered to kids. Parents (and people like you seeking a link) associate autism with vaccination since they both happened at the same time, but there is no factual or tangible evidence to prove that -- actually, all the evidence proves otherwise.

Do you even know the molecular basis for autism? Unless you're suggesting a vaccine can cause that kind of genetic damage -- if that was the case, why aren't we seeing an increase in childhood cancers? Because there is no relation. Stop spreading fallacy Charles.

EDIT:

Charles, since you love figures and graphs so much:
http://i.imgur.com/G4OlXGK.png

Also here's a little background on the only 'scientist' to ever correlate the things you are discussing:
http://i.imgur.com/JYl9QpE.png
Andrew Wakefield (above)
- What did andrew do? He published the only paper EVER in the history of published papers that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine for measles/mumps/rubella and autism. An investigation into his study found:
1) the medical 'study' conducted by andrew included a total of 12 kids in the study -- hugely misrepresented and data was falsified
2) wakefield stood to profit enormously by his results
3) The study constituted abuse of the developmentally disabled children.

10 of the original 13 authors of the paper published a retraction in 2010.

Wakefields findings have never been reproduced or validated by other researchers and in 2010 they banned wakefield from practicing medicine.


You're basing this entire argument on one paper written by a moron who broke the ethical code of medical practitioners by using his position to profit himself by falsifying data. Maybe you don't know how the scientific process works but someone making a claim is never instantly accepted. It is criticized, every little detail from the machinery they used to how well they sanitized test tubes is scrutinized, and only once their data can be replicated by several others does it start to become widely accepted.

[kb]

^

In addition to your comment about "someone making a claim is never instantly accepted", even the paper you referenced that started all of this did not interpret causation.

Quoting from the paper itself: "We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue."

It is not rare for studies to publish findings that are later proven to be inconsistent. This paper is an example of one of those cases, the media broscientists just simply love to make claims when they do not understand the scientific process.

[underscore]

Strain on the medical system? What about people who drinks pop, eat fast food and dont exercise?
These people become obesed, develop diabetes, required bi weekly antibiotic IVs, and some needing kidney dialysis and amputations. What about their risks of heart attack and stroke?
Do they strain the ER wait time, out-patient treatment seating area, or hospital beds?
What about the medications they need to take? Insulin, metformin, atenolol, statin drugs and ace inhibitors?

Do u need me to go on and on about hospital strains in our society? I thought not!

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you really saying that because the system is already strained it's no big deal to strain it more? Fat people may be a bigger strain but that doesn't mean the strain from disease outbreaks is irrelevant.

That's like saying we shouldn't worry about serial killers because cancer kills more people.

[CharlesInCharge]

Were you born yesterday to know that all the food products advertised on television promote disease and cancers?
... of course this is what industry wants.
^
In addition to your comment about "someone making a claim is never instantly accepted", even the paper you referenced that started all of this did not interpret causation.

Quoting from the paper itself: "We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue."

It is not rare for studies to publish findings that are later proven to be inconsistent. This paper is an example of one of those cases, the media broscientists just simply love to make claims when they do not understand the scientific process.Nice of you to put in your two cents... I guess you've seen the study that shows mercury to have no correlation to autism? I hope you're not a hit and run poster.

Charles there is one study done in 1998 that linked autism to vaccination and it was debunked several times over by several government operated bodies, and private research labs. There simply is no correlation between getting a vaccine and autism.

The link has arose due to bro-science (you know, the type of science you practice). The time that autism is diagnosed is roughly the same time that the first vaccinations are administered to kids. Parents (and people like you seeking a link) associate autism with vaccination since they both happened at the same time, but there is no factual or tangible evidence to prove that -- actually, all the evidence proves otherwise. Are you so gullible to think this one debunked study make vaccines safe? How do you know the "corporations" didnt setup it up to fail so that they can manipulate indoctrinated citizens like yourself?

CDC Chief Admits that Vaccines Trigger Autism
CDC Chief Admits that Vaccines Trigger Autism - YouTube


Do you even know the molecular basis for autism? Unless you're suggesting a vaccine can cause that kind of genetic damage -- if that was the case, why aren't we seeing an increase in childhood cancers? Because there is no relation. Stop spreading fallacy Charles. Wow, wow, stop the presses... have you stumbled on to something that we dont know... please explain further and educate us with your wisdom.



Also here's a little background on the only 'scientist' to ever correlate the things you are discussing:

Andrew Wakefield (above)
- What did andrew do? He published the only paper EVER in the history of published papers that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine for measles/mumps/rubella and autism. An investigation into his study found:
1) the medical 'study' conducted by andrew included a total of 12 kids in the study -- hugely misrepresented and data was falsified
2) wakefield stood to profit enormously by his results
3) The study constituted abuse of the developmentally disabled children.

10 of the original 13 authors of the paper published a retraction in 2010.

Wakefields findings have never been reproduced or validated by other researchers and in 2010 they banned wakefield from practicing medicine.


You're basing this entire argument on one paper written by a moron who broke the ethical code of medical practitioners by using his position to profit himself by falsifying data. Maybe you don't know how the scientific process works but someone making a claim is never instantly accepted. It is criticized, every little detail from the machinery they used to how well they sanitized test tubes is scrutinized, and only once their data can be replicated by several others does it start to become widely accepted.Try following the thread next time where I posted short videos showing studies on mercury and aluminum. You're basically spamming to claim that I based my findings on this Wakefield character.


EDIT:

Charles, since you love figures and graphs so much:
http://i.imgur.com/G4OlXGK.png
We already showed that these charts are misleading, to use your own phrase... "Stop spreading fallacy" dhillon.
https://sslproxy.getsatisfaction.com/sslproxy/SWhAdDNLMG5zdGFuVGlWenmLbJDGd3CABhjZermgcystANA4T6 nd0pzV0fSzBRRGOd17A4b8ZLwi6-HESbXI0jOhCynczFwCmuUBAw56lXkw1YPMi8XxI7EFwI9hDczz Q_DUxKKYdIff9VnM8lmSJw==.jpg


edit
Banned around the world, but not in the United States
That might explain why thimerosal was eliminated in many countries 20 years ago. In 1977, a Russian study found that adults exposed to ethylmercury, the form of mercury in thimerosal, suffered brain damage years later. Studies on thimerosal poisoning also describe tubular necrosis and nervous system injury, including obtundation, coma and death. As a result of these findings, Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines in 1980.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/011764_thimerosal_mercury.html#ixzz2x31jiKNu

[wasabisashimi]

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you really saying that because the system is already strained it's no big deal to strain it more? Fat people may be a bigger strain but that doesn't mean the strain from disease outbreaks is irrelevant.

That's like saying we shouldn't worry about serial killers because cancer kills more people.

No, I am saying there are many strains on the system. You were talking about sick measles kids as if they were the only strain that were not OK by the society. Are you saying unvaccinated people are like serial killers? Why cant you or the other one answer my question about how we can blame others if vaccine somehow fails to protect you or the vaccine effectiveness expires sooner than projected? My points are still how can be sure everyone response to vaccine the same way at 2months of age, how can we guarantee vaccine effectiveness duration.
Posted via RS Mobile

[underscore]

No, I am saying there are many strains on the system. You were talking about sick measles kids as if they were the only strain that were not OK by the society. Are you saying unvaccinated people are like serial killers? Why cant you or the other one answer my question about how we can blame others if vaccine somehow fails to protect you or the vaccine effectiveness expires sooner than projected? My points are still how can be sure everyone response to vaccine the same way at 2months of age, how can we guarantee vaccine effectiveness duration.
Posted via RS Mobile

No, I wasn't. Sorry if it came across that way, obviously any avoidable strain is a bad thing and preventable disease outbreaks are avoidable.

If the vaccine stops working in someone that's where things like herd immunity come into play. If there's a high enough rate of vaccination then a few people not being vaccinated (for any of a number of legitimate reasons) will still be okay.

[underscore]

Are you so gullible to think this one debunked study make vaccines safe? How do you know the "corporations" didnt setup it up to fail so that they can manipulate indoctrinated citizens like yourself?

You either have mental issues, or you're the stupidest person I know of.

[underscore]

I guess you've seen the study that shows mercury to have no correlation to autism?

Ethyl Mercury/Thimerosal isn't even in most vaccines. Per the Public Health Agency of Canada Do vaccines contain toxic ingredients? - Vaccine Safety - Public Health Agency of Canada (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vs-sv/vs-faq14-eng.php)

A preservative is added to prevent bacterial growth in multi-dose vials.

Thimerosal is the most effective preservative and has been used safely for over seven decades. Most vaccines licensed in Canada do not contain thimerosal. Only influenza vaccine and most hepatitis B vaccines contain thimerosal.

Theoretical concerns regarding possible mercury toxicity and link to autism have been dismissed with multiple studies that have found no evidence of a link.

Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury in an amount well below established limits of safety. Ethyl mercury is eliminated from the body rapidly and does not accumulate, even in premature infants. This is in contrast to methyl mercury which is found in many foodstuffs, especially fish – and which remains in the body longer and can accumulate.

And per the FDA http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvaccines/safetyavailability/vaccinesafety/ucm096228

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1). A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women. Some vaccines such as Td, which is indicated for older children (≥ 7 years of age) and adults, are also now available in formulations that are free of thimerosal or contain only trace amounts. Vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal contain 1 microgram or less of mercury per dose.

In the following pages, a discussion of preservatives, the use of thimerosal as a preservative, guidelines on exposure to organomercurials (primarily methylmercury), thimerosal toxicity, recent and future FDA actions, and the conclusions of the Institute of Medicine's most recent review of thimerosal in vaccines are presented. This narrative on thimerosal contains references to the literature and links to other sites for readers who wish additional information; for quick reference, a number of frequently asked questions (FAQs) and answers are provided.

So even if mercury did cause autism, it isn't in the vaccines anymore.

[RacingMetro92]

You either have mental issues, or you're the stupidest person I know of.

It's been well established that it's likely a bit of column A, and a whole lot of column B there. Maybe it comes from not being vaccinated...i don't know.

But whatever the case, CiC is doing his same old argument of ignoring the evidence others have posted, and only wants to see evidence that serves his own purposes so he can spin it his way. He talks about how the charts dhillon has posted is misleading, when CiC constantly posts conspiracy bullshit from the sources he uses. It's hypocritical, but then again, his view of what a proper source is pretty ridiculous.

Google natural news, and while Wikipedia isn't the most reliable of sources, the first sentence says that its a conspiracy theorist website...totally credible.

[wasabisashimi]

No, I wasn't. Sorry if it came across that way, obviously any avoidable strain is a bad thing and preventable disease outbreaks are avoidable.

If the vaccine stops working in someone that's where things like herd immunity come into play. If there's a high enough rate of vaccination then a few people not being vaccinated (for any of a number of legitimate reasons) will still be okay.

I agree with you on the herd immunity concept except i dont see it being realistic since we just have no way to track the number of people who actually are protected within the said protection length. Its a good theory but they arent sure if we have actually reach herd immunity number. Some vaccines didnt activate immunity, some immunity expired unexpectedly early, some vaccinated people just never bothered to update they 30yr old record ( that would be me).

I will just rather deal with measles when i get infected with it, take the known symptoms and trust my immune system to function (as a healthy person) instead of relying on vaccine which still has too many unknowns in its effectiveness and its long term effect. It is a risk that i am willing to take and it should not be mandatory and become a judgemental issue.

[CharlesInCharge]

Interesting findings in the last link regarding Tetanust shots.
if you look back before there was a tetanus vaccine, the incidence of tetanus in newborn babies was almost nothing. Zero. Most of the tetanus cases were people over the age of 25, and the number of tetanus cases in the United States was infinitesimally small even before there was a vaccine. Source - The Health Ranger interviews neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock on mandatory vaccine trials, fraudulent vaccine science and vaccine ethics (http://www.naturalnews.com/035624_Russell_Blaylock_interview_vaccines.html#ix zz2x3HJCwgF)



Antibodies Do Not Equal Immunity (Tetanust)
A Dose of Reality: Tetanus Vaccines Fail To Protect | The MommypotamusThe Mommypotamus | (http://www.mommypotamus.com/when-to-get-a-tetanust-shot/)

You either have mental issues, or you're the stupidest person I know of.Congratulations you made my ignore list.

[RacingMetro92]

And like a child plugging his ears, he becomes deaf to those trying to start a debate and kicking his ass at it. Welcome to the club underscore.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Soundy]

Congratulations you made my ignore list.

And like a child plugging his ears, he becomes deaf to those trying to start a debate and kicking his ass at it. Welcome to the club underscore.
Posted via RS Mobile
You're luckier than I.... *sigh*

[underscore]

I agree with you on the herd immunity concept except i dont see it being realistic since we just have no way to track the number of people who actually are protected within the said protection length. Its a good theory but they arent sure if we have actually reach herd immunity number. Some vaccines didnt activate immunity, some immunity expired unexpectedly early, some vaccinated people just never bothered to update they 30yr old record ( that would be me).

I will just rather deal with measles when i get infected with it, take the known symptoms and trust my immune system to function (as a healthy person) instead of relying on vaccine which still has too many unknowns in its effectiveness and its long term effect. It is a risk that i am willing to take and it should not be mandatory and become a judgemental issue.

I have a hard time following your thought process here, regardless of what you decide to do at least quarantine yourself should you get measles or whatever (although I have a feeling I don't need to tell you that).

Congratulations you made my ignore list.

Aww did I hurt his feelings?

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/153285i382D44A6A62C61BF/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

And like a child plugging his ears, he becomes deaf to those trying to start a debate and kicking his ass at it. Welcome to the club underscore.
Posted via RS Mobile

It doesn't surprise me, if anything he's just confirming the validity of what I'm saying.

Now for this club, are there meeting? I can bring some muffins.

[gars]

This seems relevant here.

Researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine and the Allen Institute for Brain Science have published a study that gives clear and direct new evidence that autism begins during pregnancy.

The study will be published in the March 27 online edition of the New England Journal of Medicine.

The researchers – Eric Courchesne, PhD, professor of neurosciences and director of the Autism Center of Excellence at UC San Diego, Ed S. Lein, PhD, of the Allen Institute for Brain Science in Seattle, and first author Rich Stoner, PhD, of the UC San Diego Autism Center of Excellence – analyzed 25 genes in post-mortem brain tissue of children with and without autism. These included genes that serve as biomarkers for brain cell types in different layers of the cortex, genes implicated in autism and several control genes.

“Building a baby’s brain during pregnancy involves creating a cortex that contains six layers,” Courchesne said. “We discovered focal patches of disrupted development of these cortical layers in the majority of children with autism.” Stoner created the first three-dimensional model visualizing brain locations where patches of cortex had failed to develop the normal cell-layering pattern.

“The most surprising finding was the similar early developmental pathology across nearly all of the autistic brains, especially given the diversity of symptoms in patients with autism, as well as the extremely complex genetics behind the disorder,” explained Lein.
During early brain development, each cortical layer develops its own specific types of brain cells, each with specific patterns of brain connectivity that perform unique and important roles in processing information. As a brain cell develops into a specific type in a specific layer with specific connections, it acquires a distinct genetic signature or “marker” that can be observed.

The study found that in the brains of children with autism, key genetic markers were absent in brain cells in multiple layers. “This defect,” Courchesne said, “indicates that the crucial early developmental step of creating six distinct layers with specific types of brain cells – something that begins in prenatal life – had been disrupted.”

Equally important, said the scientists, these early developmental defects were present in focal patches of cortex, suggesting the defect is not uniform throughout the cortex. The brain regions most affected by focal patches of absent gene markers were the frontal and the temporal cortex, possibly illuminating why different functional systems are impacted across individuals with the disorder.

The frontal cortex is associated with higher-order brain function, such as complex communication and comprehension of social cues. The temporal cortex is associated with language. The disruptions of frontal and temporal cortical layers seen in the study may underlie symptoms most often displayed in autistic spectrum disorders. The visual cortex – an area of the brain associated with perception that tends to be spared in autism – displayed no abnormalities.

“The fact that we were able to find these patches is remarkable, given that the cortex is roughly the size of the surface of a basketball, and we only examined pieces of tissue the size of a pencil eraser,” said Lein. “This suggests that these abnormalities are quite pervasive across the surface of the cortex.”

Data collected for the Allen Brain Atlas, as well as the BrainSpan Atlas of the Developing Human Brain was developed by a consortium of partners and funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. It allowed scientists to identify specific genes in the developing human brain that could be used as biomarkers for the different layer cell types.

Researching the origins of autism is challenging because it typically relies upon studying adult brains and attempting to extrapolate backwards. “In this case,” Lein noted, “we were able to study autistic and control cases at a young age, giving us a unique insight into how autism presents in the developing brain.”

“The finding that these defects occur in patches rather than across the entirety of cortex gives hope as well as insight about the nature of autism,” added Courchesne.

According to the scientists, such patchy defects, as opposed to uniform cortical pathology, may help explain why many toddlers with autism show clinical improvement with early treatment and over time. The findings support the idea that in children with autism the brain can sometimes rewire connections to circumvent early focal defects, raising hope that understanding these patches may eventually open new avenues to explore how that improvement occurs.

Additional contributors to the study include Maggie L. Chow, PhD, and Subhojit Roy, MD, PhD, UC San Diego; Maureen P. Boyle, PhD, UC San Diego and Allen Institute; Peter R. Mouton, PhD, University of South Florida School of Medicine; Anthony Wynshaw-Boris, MD, PhD, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine; and Sophia A. Colamarino, PhD, Stanford University School of Medicine.
This research was supported by funds from the Simons Foundation, the Peter Emch Family Foundation, Cure Autism Now/Autism Speaks, the Thursday Club Juniors, the UC San Diego Autism Center of Excellence (NIMH grant P50-MH081755), and the Allen Institute for Brain Science (NIMH grant RC2MH089921).

Patches of Cortical Layers Disrupted During Early Brain Development in Autism (http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx)

[Brianrietta]

Croatian Court Upholds Vaccine Mandate (http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/croatian-court-upholds-vaccine-mandate)

Croatia's Constitutional Court has upheld compulsory vaccination laws against nine infectious diseases. The court's statement has been translated as reading, “The child’s right to health is more than the rights of parents to the (wrong) choice.”

Croatia and its neighbor Slovenia have been at the forefront of universal vaccination. While most governments advocate in favor of vaccination, and in some cases provide financial incentives, only a few make childhood vaccination compulsory.

According to a study of 29 European countries, “15 countries do not have any mandatory vaccinations; the remaining 14 countries have at least one mandatory vaccination included in their program”. Moreover, most of these do not enforce the laws, provide extensive opt-out clauses, or make vaccination universal only against a small number of diseases.

Since Croatia made vaccinations universal in 1999 diphtheria, whooping cough and measles have disappeared entirely and tuberculosis has decreased by 93%, tetanus by 97% and hepatitis B by 65%.

Possibly because of this success, however, Croatia has experienced substantial resistance to what was once an uncontroversial policy. Having achieved universal vaccination for a decade (presumably excluding cases where there was a valid medical reason) 28 children went unvaccinated in 2012, according to official records, and in 2013 this climbed to 143. While these numbers are not enough to generate the sorts of outbreaks seen in the US and UK as a result of campaigns by anti-vax lobbyists, the direction is clear.

The potential scale of the revolt is indicated by 10,000 people signing a petition claiming, "the vaccination of healthy children poses a threat to their health." Inevitably the law was challenged in court, but the highest court in the land has now endorsed it. The decision has been hailed by the Croatian Medical Association and the Croatian Institute for Public Health.

The implications of a let up in vaccination regimes can be seen in Syria where the war has interrupted the childhood immunization program. As a result polio, recently confined to just three countries, is now spiraling out of control in Syria. Children, including those who make it to refugee camps in surrounding countries, are being sentenced to lifelong paralysis.

Failing to vaccinate a child against a transmissible disease is analogous to strapping a bomb to their chest and sending them out in public – if something triggers an explosion they are the most likely one to die, but there is a substantial risk everyone close to them will get hurt as well.

http://media3.giphy.com/media/ENagATV1Gr9eg/giphy.gif

[CharlesInCharge]

A parent's response to The New York Time's 'Eliminate Vaccine Exemptions' goes viral

A Parent's Response to the New York Times' Article: Eliminate Vaccine Exemptions - LivingWhole.org (http://www.livingwhole.org/a-parents-response-to-the-new-york-times-article-eliminate-vaccine-exemptions/)

[rcoccultwar]

Revscene sucks lol. Anyways, not sure if its a conspiracy based site but 15 minutes of reading.

Natural Health News, Natural Remedies and Wellness Tips: The Hornets? Nest of Vaccine Information (http://www.naturalblaze.com/2014/03/the-hornets-nest-of-vaccine-information.html)

[CRS]

Revscene sucks lol. Anyways, not sure if its a conspiracy based site but 15 minutes of reading.

Natural Health News, Natural Remedies and Wellness Tips: The Hornets? Nest of Vaccine Information (http://www.naturalblaze.com/2014/03/the-hornets-nest-of-vaccine-information.html)

rcowboy sucks lol.

[kross9]

Great a 15 page post on conspiracy theories. What is worse than anti-Vacc people; is people who refuse blood transfusions spite it saving the person... God damn Jehovah witnesses... I dont know maybe the Jeho's got in big and are spreading their religion.