[Gululu]

Bus shelter ads fuel language debate
http://i.imgur.com/UXg2xvC.jpg


A public advertisement from a government-funded charity entirely in the Chinese language is further “fragmenting” a city with Canada’s highest proportion of foreign-born residents, says a longtime resident.

SUCCESS, a social service agency that offers immigrant settlement services, recently launched a new bus shelter advertisement offering support for people with a gambling addiction. But the ad features only Chinese characters, apart from a name and phone number, which leads to a Chinese voice message.

Kerry Starchuk, who unsuccessfully lobbied the City of Richmond last year to regulate language on signs to include English, called the ad disappointing and more commonplace.

“SUCCESS is to be helping the immigrants integrate into the community. When I found out this was in Chinese, I don’t think this is helping them integrate at all,” she said. “You’re not helping the immigrants, you’re enabling them.”

Private corporations are also targeting Chinese-language speakers in exclusive advertising. Starchuk, a Blundell area resident, recently received a letter from Shaw advertising its services using only Chinese. Ads in other public places around Richmond show firms such as Rogers, Fido and Telus using the same tactic.

“We are seeing the shortcomings of multiculturalism,” said Starchuk.

Bus shelter ads fuel language debate - Richmond Review (http://www.richmondreview.com/news/250343811.html)

:considered:

[OrangeJuice]

I might be wrong, but this is a fairly stupid thing to get upset about. There are English-language bus shelter ads for problem gambling throughout Metro, and you can find the phone number on the back of lottery tickets, in casinos, and at the bottom of most BCLC advertising.

In fact, it's a smart idea, because gambling is popular among traditionally minded or older Chinese who often struggle with English. Dictating that media must be in XYZ language is getting dangerously close to the Quebec way of handling things.

I'd like to hear from others whether I'm being unreasonable when I say this.

[shawnly1000]

.

[yray]

Kerry Starchuk has raised uncomfortable questions regarding - YouTube

:lawl: did she live in a box since 1992 and emerged in 2010?

[Gunsmokez]

Well , I'm Chinese I can not read the ad either. So what is the problem here.

[Noir]

Well , I'm Chinese I can not read the ad either. So what is the problem here.


That this new culture that was welcomed with open arms is now alienating the culture that welcomed them in the first place?

[Jmac]

It should have both English and Chinese on ads, IMO.

[320icar]

LOL Kerry starchuk. My moms crazy ass friend. And prolific racist.
Posted via RS Mobile

[vafanculo]

I think this is a tad too much. I'm fine with the larger portion being in Chinese, but they should still have English on there as well. If not for simply being out of respect, but just so non Chinese know what it means. For all I know it could be spreading propaganda against Canada.

Plus, things start with baby steps. First one sign, then 2, eventually it's the norm. This is Canada not (insert non Canadian country).
Posted via RS Mobile

[boostfever]

It has English :fuckthatshit: Irene Tang

[skiiipi]

while I understand the frustration in this, this Kerry starchuck sounds like the real racist... How private business like Shaw and Telus choose to target their advertising is not something she can/should control. It's simply a smart business decision, if the Democratic is mostly Chinese, then it makes makes sense to run an advertisement campaign targeting mostly Chinese speakers.

Gives me a vibe as the type that will interrupted you in public to tell you that "in Canada we speak English" if she heard you having a conversation in your mother tongue.
Posted via RS Mobile

[PiuYi]

^demographic


but ya i agree, if they don't choose to advertise in English then it's their loss or they're just targeting that audience. no harm done.
i can see the frustration in seeing something in public that you can't read, but that's part of being in a multicultural society. maybe take some Chinese lessons? opportunity to learn something new!

[Yodamaster]

Official languages exist for a reason, if you aren't willing to at least print what your ad is about in english, don't post it. The same applies to french in Quebec, I'd expect people to respect that.

I wouldn't go around China posting ads entirely in english, why should it be treated with more leniency here? It is NOT racist to question why an ad does not include the official language of the country it is in, especially when the business behind it is trying to help immigrants "integrate".

If you want to integrate, learn the official language, moving to a country with a different language is supposed to be hard. Multiculturalism does not mean that the languages tied to those countries become official in this country, citizens in this country should not be expected to learn mandarin to read what an ad is targeting.

[Manic!]

Money talks bullsh|t walks. A business should be allowed to advertise in any language they want because it's their money.

[OrangeJuice]

It should have both English and Chinese on ads, IMO.

A bilingual ad would have avoided all this trouble. That's the most one can ask for without sounding like some kind of PQ nutter.

Although, it gets me wondering...if Telus or Shaw advertise a deal in a language other than English, can it be considered discriminatory, since only people who read that language will know the deal exists?

[Mr.HappySilp]

A bilingual ad would have avoided all this trouble. That's the most one can ask for without sounding like some kind of PQ nutter.

Although, it gets me wondering...if Telus or Shaw advertise a deal in a language other than English, can it be considered discriminatory, since only people who read that language will know the deal exists?

Or better yet refuse to offer the deal to you because you don't live in the area in which their ads was targeted.

Not sure if anyone of you know this but a few years ago Shaw was offer this $9.95 deal where you can get basic cable(include a HD PVR) , phone, and Internet 25 for $9.95 for each service. They only target downtown core (or rather where there are Novus service). Even if you have the ad they don't give you deal if you live elsewhere.

[OrangeJuice]

Or better yet refuse to offer the deal to you because you don't live in the area in which their ads was targeted.

Not sure if anyone of you know this but a few years ago Shaw was offer this $9.95 deal where you can get basic cable(include a HD PVR) , phone, and Internet 25 for $9.95 for each service. They only target downtown core (or rather where there are Novus service). Even if you have the ad they don't give you deal if you live elsewhere.

Ugh. This is one of the reasons that I support nationalizing (or partially nationalizing) the broadband infrstructure--because the private sector has proven its bottom line is profit and not efficient service.

Back on topic...at least (I'm assuming) the advertisement was in English, but I was talking about something different-only advertising the deal in a language other than English.

[Lomac]

Someone should create a billboard ad with all 0 and 1's that spells out that they're recruiting a programmer or some such person. Or something that's so completely techno babble that no one but a hardcore computer person would understand.

Wonder what she'd think about that.

[AzNightmare]

Someone should create a billboard ad with all 0 and 1's that spells out that they're recruiting a programmer or some such person. Or something that's so completely techno babble that no one but a hardcore computer person would understand.

Wonder what she'd think about that.

I'll say that's a clever method to screen the potential recruits.

[Tim Budong]

Someone should create a billboard ad with all 0 and 1's that spells out that they're recruiting a programmer or some such person. Or something that's so completely techno babble that no one but a hardcore computer person would understand.

Wonder what she'd think about that.

it would only be known as...this is pretty damn cool and nothing else

[twitchyzero]

I remember in grade school the supervision aide would command us to speak English
what a miserable witch
if you aren't in the group or i'm not speaking directly at you why the fuck does it matter...as long as i'm not yelling/cursing :lol

[multicartual]

On one side, I'm like:

Well, it's a majority asian community, what's the problem? It is kind of cool to have different cultures and languages co-existing and creating interesting, different neighborhoods

On the other I'm like:

Shit, she doesn't want English speaker business! What a bitch!

[tiger_handheld]

McDonald's customer alleges language discrimination
CBC – Wed, 21 Aug, 2013

A B.C. woman is claiming she was refused service at a Richmond McDonald's because staff said they couldn't understand her English.
Hai Xia Sun ordered a hot chocolate at the McDonald's on Number 3 Road in Richmond last week, but said staff gave her a coffee by mistake.
She said she asked that her order be fixed, but alleges the manager refused and told her to get out of the store instead.
"She said, 'You don't know English,' and then she returned my order. She said, 'We are very busy, don't stay here,'" Hai Xia Sun told CBC News.
Sun called the incident discrimination.

"This is my second language right. And this is discrimination. Yes maybe I speak not very good English but she can't not service to us."
But a McDonald's spokesperson says it was an isolated incident caused by a "language barrier," not discrimination or poor service.
"We regret that this customer was offended during her recent restaurant visit. We have since been in communication with her son who has expressed appreciation for our efforts to resolve the situation," said a later statement issued by communications director Jeanette Jones.
"What is alleged to have taken place is not consistent with the franchisee’s commitment to quality customer service and to reflecting the cultural mosaic of the restaurant’s local community," the statement read.

The Vancouver suburb of Richmond is popular with Chinese immigrants. According to Statistics Canada, 41 per cent of the population lists a Chinese dialect as their first language.
Queenie Choo, CEO of SUCCESS, a Vancouver immigrant group, says incidents of discrimination are uncommon in local businesses.
"Well I think it's a very unfortunate situation. The way I look at it, it's a situation where there's a communication issue. It takes two to tango," Choo said.
Nevertheless, Sun's son David Zhao wants McDonald's to take action by hiring Mandarin speakers at local restaurants.
"In Richmond, how come they don't hire a person who can communicate in Mandarin. All right? That's not a big deal," said Zhao.

source: http://www.revscene.net/forums/687589-richmond-mcdonalds-customer-alleges-language-discrimination.html

--

As a surrey resident, I'm writing to my MLA to make certain ads in hindi. Screw english

[rsx]

It's an ad. So long as it's not a warning sign or disclaimer, then it should just be treated like any picture/abstract art/advertisement.

[ae101]

if ever come back & start a business here, im gonna make sure my bloody ads are fucking "CHINESE & FRENCH", screw english im gonna just gonna troll on everyone in richmond :troll:

[skiiipi]

Keep in mind, companie are allowed to discriminate to target their customer or employee as long as it does not violate the charter of rights, while some may argue having a Chinese only sign is a discrimination based on race (not allowed in the charter or rights), it is actually a discrimination based on language.

For example, a Chinese restaurant may post an ad saying "hiring, mandarin speaking required", but they may not say "hiring, chinese people only" Because the ability to speak mandarin does not mean you are Chinese.

So in the case of advertisement, having a Chinese only sign, is targeting Chinese reading customers, I myself is Chinese however I would not fit into the targeted marketing because I do not read Chinese, and likely will converse in English when visiting a business. However, if a caucasian customer can read Chinese, then the Ad would be targeting the as well.

[stewie]

if ever come back & start a business here, im gonna make sure my bloody ads are fucking "CHINESE & FRENCH", screw english im gonna just gonna troll on everyone in richmond :troll:

As long as it has either English or French I'm happy. I may suck at French, but that would just give me more of a reason to learn our other national language. However, I will not even attempt to learn Chinese(or any other language for that matter). If I want to learn I'd either take a course or travel and learn a language first hand. Shouldn't have to be smothered in fully foreign ads on streets while minding my own buisness. Private ads or not, they should contain either English or French in my mind.

If they don't want my buisness that's fine, but this isn't your old country, so it's time to learn your new language.
Posted via RS Mobile

[trancehead]

she is probably as white as sliced bread and does not know even her own origins.

Nor does she even speak a second language i bet

[PiuYi]

如果我在這裡寫中文呢? 有人理嗎?

[PiuYi]

I remember in grade school the supervision aide would command us to speak English
what a miserable witch
if you aren't in the group or i'm not speaking directly at you why the fuck does it matter...as long as i'm not yelling/cursing :lol

if the teachers say "ENGLISH ONLY", this i can understand simply because they're responsible for the kids in their class, they might be planning some dangerous prank or about to do something jeopardizing their safety.... like "let's go to that white van marked 'free candy' after school" the teacher's gotta know

also robs the teacher of authority if they don't know everything going on in their classroom

[Tone Loc]

I think this is a tad too much. I'm fine with the larger portion being in Chinese, but they should still have English on there as well. If not for simply being out of respect, but just so non Chinese know what it means. For all I know it could be spreading propaganda against Canada.

Plus, things start with baby steps. First one sign, then 2, eventually it's the norm. This is Canada not (insert non Canadian country).
Posted via RS Mobile

Exactly this. It's a slippery slope, once we "let" a few Chinese-only ads run, it'll be only a matter of time before an area like Richmond caters exclusively to Chinese. Remember what Richmond was like 10, 15 years ago? Very very different from how it is now.

& FWIW Kerry Starchuk sounds racist as fuck, it's funny how being Caucasian essentially voids your right to voice your opinion in some cases. Whereas if I were to utter the same complaint people would (likely) applaud me for choosing to assimilate and join the greater Canadian culture

[320icar]

Keep in mind, companie are allowed to discriminate to target their customer or employee as long as it does not violate the charter of rights, while some may argue having a Chinese only sign is a discrimination based on race (not allowed in the charter or rights), it is actually a discrimination based on language.

For example, a Chinese restaurant may post an ad saying "hiring, mandarin speaking required", but they may not say "hiring, chinese people only" Because the ability to speak mandarin does not mean you are Chinese.

So in the case of advertisement, having a Chinese only sign, is targeting Chinese reading customers, I myself is Chinese however I would not fit into the targeted marketing because I do not read Chinese, and likely will converse in English when visiting a business. However, if a caucasian customer can read Chinese, then the Ad would be targeting the as well.

From a Caucasian male living in Richmond for 25 years i couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Eff-1]

The context of the ad needs to be considered. They are promoting a service that is specifically designed for Chinese speaking people. So why not advertise in Chinese? Another example is say you're a company and you want to advertise to Indian people that you have Punjabi-speaking staff who can help you. Then of course it makes sense to advertise this message in Punjabi. That's why ethnic media exists like REDFM, OMNI TV, and Fairchild Radio, Sing Tao, etc...

I personally believe this is different when you hear about businesses that have signage in Chinese only. Or a restaurant doesn't have English menus. It sends a message that says if you don't speak Mandarin or Cantonese, you are not welcome in my business. I can see how some Canadians might be upset about that. The easy solution is bilingual signage.

Advertising in a certain language is not the same. What if you were in China and wanted to specifically sell a product or service to English speaking people, would you pay to advertise in Mandarin or English? English of course.

[Manic!]

Exactly this. It's a slippery slope, once we "let" a few Chinese-only ads run, it'll be only a matter of time before an area like Richmond caters exclusively to Chinese. Remember what Richmond was like 10, 15 years ago? Very very different from how it is now.



https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=5915015

49.4% of Richmond speak English at home. Businesses are not going to stop serving 49.4% of the market. If that number changes the market will follow accordingly.

[twdm]

To settle this dispute once and for all, ads shall be neither in English, French, nor Chinese, but in the mother tongue of the first nations. Thereby avoiding the "I was here first" argument and so that no one understands the ads except for the non-existent first nations in Richmond.

[Xu.Vi]

To settle this dispute once and for all, ads shall be neither in English, French, nor Chinese, but in the mother tongue of the first nations. Thereby avoiding the "I was here first" argument and so that no one understands the ads except for the non-existent first nations in Richmond.

LOL.
Posted via RS Mobile

[J____]

I think this is a tad too much. I'm fine with the larger portion being in Chinese, but they should still have English on there as well. If not for simply being out of respect, but just so non Chinese know what it means. For all I know it could be spreading propaganda against Canada.

Plus, things start with baby steps. First one sign, then 2, eventually it's the norm. This is Canada not (insert non Canadian country).
Posted via RS Mobile


I'm Chinese and I can't read this either but I don't see a problem with this. The ad placement was paid for by the business that put the ad there, so they can put whatever they want on it as long as it's not obscene or not suitable for a public place. Putting ads in all chinese is a smart advertising move because it targets their clientele which looks to be, chinese. I see ads in China and other foreign countries that's english only but I don't hear people complaining about not understanding it. IMO somethings should be regulated when out of hand, this however is not a problem in my eyes. So according to these protestors, should all signs in Canada be in every single language in the world, since there are canadians that were originally from every nation in the world?

On the other hand, it's a stupid advertising move and waste of money to put that ad at a bus stop. Since no chinese mainlander that's into gambling would ever take the bus...

[snails]

i see why there is concern about it. .the more socially acceptable the more often it will happen and before you know it large communities wont be "bilingual" they will be only accepting of certain races..

i dont think the "its their ad they can do what they want" thing flies here.. it their ad in a PUBLIC setting so it needs to be respectful to the public.

if i cant say Merry Christmas cuz some immigrants dont feel its accepting as they move into this country i dont think i should be able to walk past an ad i cant understand.

before i go off on the subject ill just make it simple. this is canada. the main language is English and if you dont wanna learn is then you shouldnt be here. i would not move to china (or any other country) unless i was planning to accept the culture and learn the language if i planned to build a life there.

[melloman]

Step 1: Learn Chinese
Step 2: Tell them to fuck off (In Chinese :ifyouknow: ) when they do things like this.

[Manic!]

if i cant say Merry Christmas cuz some immigrants dont feel its accepting as they move into this country i dont think i should be able to walk past an ad i cant understand.


That's B.S. no immigrant is telling you to stop saying Merry Christmas. The only people bringing it up are white people, manly atheists and republicans. Immigrants don't care except for the overtime they will be getting.

[Verdasco]

i seriously doubt china would give a fuck about ads in english if it was posted there....

[snails]

That's B.S. no immigrant is telling you to stop saying Merry Christmas. The only people bringing it up are white people, manly atheists and republicans. Immigrants don't care except for the overtime they will be getting.


quite the assumption, but ive actually heard it on the news and radio talk shows where callers say its unacceptable because they are Muslim (for example)and its not welcoming because Christmas is Christian. why even argue about it. the world is heading toward a more politically correct place and more multiculturl. i think if you go somewhere you should adapt to their language at the very least and not seclude yourself off

[vafanculo]

I'm Chinese and I can't read this either but I don't see a problem with this. The ad placement was paid for by the business that put the ad there, so they can put whatever they want on it as long as it's not obscene or not suitable for a public place. Putting ads in all chinese is a smart advertising move because it targets their clientele which looks to be, chinese. I see ads in China and other foreign countries that's english only but I don't hear people complaining about not understanding it. IMO somethings should be regulated when out of hand, this however is not a problem in my eyes. So according to these protestors, should all signs in Canada be in every single language in the world, since there are canadians that were originally from every nation in the world?

On the other hand, it's a stupid advertising move and waste of money to put that ad at a bus stop. Since no chinese mainlander that's into gambling would ever take the bus...

I'm not upset at the ad, but more at people that approved it. I love living in Richmond, it's great. It's funny how people say Canada is multicultural. However, Richmond to me is starting to feel like the Quebec of Canada.

North Vancouver has a huge Persian culture. Burnaby has Italians. Coquitlqm has Koreans. All those districts however have the same feel. Like you are in Canada but at the same time embracing different cultures. Living in Richmond on the other hand, I feel I can probably move to HK and feel at home.

Richmond is losing that Canadian "multicultural" feeling that Canada so proudly boasts. Its now become directed at one culture only.

Now this isn't coming from just an Italian guy living in richmond. My wife is flip and it bothers her way more than me. Its cool that richmond has lots of Chinese. Being Canada and all, you can live anywhere you want..but at least embrace multiculturalism and realize you aren't living in China.

(Typed on a phone so it probably reads a bit sloppy)
Posted via RS Mobile

[Manic!]

quite the assumption, but ive actually heard it on the news and radio talk shows where callers say its unacceptable because they are Muslim (for example)and its not welcoming because Christmas is Christian. why even argue about it. the world is heading toward a more politically correct place and more multiculturl. i think if you go somewhere you should adapt to their language at the very least and not seclude yourself off


Just because a person is a Muslim does not make them an immigrant. Also do you know the ethnicity of the caller for all I know it could have been some white convert. Again I state this is a white people problem, I'm not assuming just watch the news.

Atheist victory in California as surf city loses its nativity display | World news | The Observer (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/01/santa-monica-nativity-scene-atheist)

Lynch v. Donnelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_v._Donnelly)

Christmas controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Jet]

Someone should create a billboard ad with all 0 and 1's that spells out that they're recruiting a programmer or some such person. Or something that's so completely techno babble that no one but a hardcore computer person would understand.

Wonder what she'd think about that.

That reminds me of that time EA put a billboard ad right in front of Radical a few years back ...

http://www.smartrecruiters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/EA-Billboard-Job-Ad.png

[twitchyzero]

if the teachers say "ENGLISH ONLY", this i can understand simply because they're responsible for the kids in their class, they might be planning some dangerous prank or about to do something jeopardizing their safety.... like "let's go to that white van marked 'free candy' after school" the teacher's gotta know

also robs the teacher of authority if they don't know everything going on in their classroom

it was during the break in the school yard...not in a classroom setting

[knight604]

public transit ?:heckno:

[snails]

Just because a person is a Muslim does not make them an immigrant. Also do you know the ethnicity of the caller for all I know it could have been some white convert. Again I state this is a white people problem, I'm not assuming just watch the news.

Atheist victory in California as surf city loses its nativity display | World news | The Observer (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/01/santa-monica-nativity-scene-atheist)

Lynch v. Donnelly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_v._Donnelly)

Christmas controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversy)

well you could hear the accent in their conversation, lets not derail the thread over this. my point stands. this is canada. english speaking canada and entire cities should not be unwelcoming to other canadians. if they are that hard pressed on richmond being china then maybe they should go back to china, if they want the life here so bad then they need to adapt. i know what im saying is very exaggerated but it all starts somewhere. it should not be socially acceptable because before you know it there will be more and more examples of things like this until its actually a problem

[Manic!]

well you could hear the accent in their conversation, lets not derail the thread over this. my point stands. this is canada. english speaking canada and entire cities should not be unwelcoming to other canadians. if they are that hard pressed on richmond being china then maybe they should go back to china, if they want the life here so bad then they need to adapt. i know what im saying is very exaggerated but it all starts somewhere. it should not be socially acceptable because before you know it there will be more and more examples of things like this until its actually a problem

So you are basing this on one person who called a radio show. It's a free country I can talk and advertise in any language I want. You tell if ever in history when a bunch of white people have gone to a another country and tried to force to local population to learn English and become Christian. That's never happened.

Your just buthurt it's happening and not the other way around.

[snails]

i dont live in richmond and have no reason to go there so this dosnt effect my life at all. and i also dont live in other parts of the world, but if i did and i planned to have my life there i would sure as hell adapt to their language and cultures. other wise i should gtfo. kinda like going to someones house.

and if you wanna talk about "free speech" there is lots of stuff that is legal but is socially unacceptable. segregating communities should be unacceptable.

[snails]

and to address your last comment, lets say white people did.. i mean history knows they havnt been outstanding in the past or other pats of the world but we are talking about canada.. u know, where 99% of RS's live, this has little to do with actual ethnicity or religion in general. its about respect. and this only being a drop in the bucket for now. but like i said before. the more acceptable this becomes the more often it will happen until its an actual issue.

[MG1]

and to address your last comment, lets say white people did.. i mean history knows they havnt been outstanding in the past or other pats of the world but we are talking about canada.. u know, where 99% of RS's live, this has little to do with actual ethnicity or religion in general. its about respect. and this only being a drop in the bucket for now. but like i said before. the more acceptable this becomes the more often it will happen until its an actual issue.

Thank you......... 1001 times.

[Manic!]

i dont live in richmond and have no reason to go there so this dosnt effect my life at all. and i also dont live in other parts of the world, but if i did and i planned to have my life there i would sure as hell adapt to their language and cultures. other wise i should gtfo. kinda like going to someones house.


YA right you would. History has proven otherwise. White people go to a Country then try to make it like the country they left. Just look at the name of our province.

[snails]

YA right you would. History has proven otherwise. White people go to a Country then try to make it like the country they left. Just look at the name of our province.

cuz you know.. i was born in 1991 and i had anything to do with any of that hahah man just stop

i dont chain up black people or throw bombs at japan incase you were wondering.. :suspicious:

[Manic!]

cuz you know.. i was born in 1991 and i had anything to do with any of that hahah man just stop

i dont chain up black people or throw bombs at japan incase you were wondering.. :suspicious:

And guess what things change. What's next your going to be upset the guy on the radio is not speaking English or French or that the free news paper is in a language you don't understand?

[snails]

And guess what things change. What's next your going to be upset the guy on the radio is not speaking English or French or that the free news paper is in a language you don't understand?

there we go, now you are getting it! that will be a problem then! i mean unless it was a language or channel or paper designated to that language and not a whole fucking city haha

see, i can change a channel, i can change a radio station.. or maybe pick up a different news paper. but i shouldnt have to avoid a whole city.. if i wanted to go to china.. i would go to china. not richmond.. starting to see my point? richmond should stay multicultural. hell any city can. but you dont segregate it

[twdm]

i dont live in richmond and have no reason to go there so this dosnt effect my life at all. and i also dont live in other parts of the world, but if i did and i planned to have my life there i would sure as hell adapt to their language and cultures. other wise i should gtfo. kinda like going to someones house.

and if you wanna talk about "free speech" there is lots of stuff that is legal but is socially unacceptable. segregating communities should be unacceptable.

There are more pressing issues to deal with such as poverty and drug addiction. Whether or not your feelings are hurt because you cannot read a sign is at the bottom of the list.

Also, should asian newspapers such as Ming Pao be writing all their articles in English so you can learn about Hong Kong celebrity gossip? Should they print all their advertisements in english as well?

[Manic!]

there we go, now you are getting it! that will be a problem then! i mean unless it was a language or channel or paper designated to that language and not a whole fucking city haha

see, i can change a channel, i can change a radio station.. or maybe pick up a different news paper. but i shouldnt have to avoid a whole city.. if i wanted to go to china.. i would go to china. not richmond.. starting to see my point? richmond should stay multicultural. hell any city can. but you dont segregate it

Do you read every single ad? If you don't like it turn your head. Every ad does not have to be about you. You get upset when you see a ad about tampons?

[snails]

There are more pressing issues to deal with such as poverty and drug addiction. Whether or not your feelings are hurt because you cannot read a sign is at the bottom of the list.

Also, should asian newspapers such as Ming Pao be writing all their articles in English? Should they print all their advertisements in english as well so you can learn about Hong Kong celebrity gossip?

you can read, but clearly have a hard time understanding. i dont care, this isnt an issue i have to face. im saying long term if this is found acceptable then communities will become segregated to certain ethnicities. the complete opposite of what Canada is about.

ps i can use google if im curious about some hong kong gossip. thanks for the concern though! ;)

and there are more pressing issues for others to deal with, but thats not what this thread is for so maybe you are confused

[snails]

Do you read every single ad? If you don't like it turn your head. Every ad does not have to be about you. You get upset when you see a ad about tampons?

if every ad in richmond was about tampons im sure it would be an issue. same if more ads start popping up that wernt english to the point that it was majority.

see.. what your saying isnt proving anything

anyways i made my point, no reason to repeat it now

[tool001]

stuff like this just encourages people not to learn english and not to assimilate. i for 1 am glad that citizen ship exams can only be taken in english/french.

[Manic!]

stuff like this just encourages people not to learn english and not to assimilate. i for 1 am glad that citizen ship exams can only be taken in english/french.

You thing your grandma could learn a foreign language right now? The people who immigrate here might not learn English but guess what their kids will.

[tool001]

You thing your grandma could learn a foreign language right now? The people who immigrate here might not learn English but guess what there kids will.

i guess , my grandma can never become a Canadian citizen . :whistle:

[Manic!]

i guess , my grandma can never become a Canadian citizen . :whistle:

So she was a Grandma when she came to Canada?

[tool001]

im being hypothetical, all my family members can speak/read English including my grandma

[MarkyMark]

I can understand maybe an 80 year old granny not giving a fuck about learning to speak the language, but anyone else should really stop being lazy and get on it. My grandparents both moved here in their 40's and learned to speak, read, and write the language while working full time as well so it's not some impossible task if you're willing to learn. I guess being Dutch and not having a whole city that catered to their culture helped the urge to want to learn.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Yodamaster]

YA right you would. History has proven otherwise. White people go to a Country then try to make it like the country they left. Just look at the name of our province.

Bigot.

As if white people are the only ones who have ever desired to conquer territory, that is a human trait that crosses racial boundaries. I don't understand how people can bundle a modern demographic with the imperialists of yesteryear and figure that they have the same intentions.

[Manic!]

Bigot.

As if white people are the only ones who have ever desired to conquer territory, that is a human trait that crosses racial boundaries. I don't understand how people can bundle a modern demographic with the imperialists of yesteryear and figure that they have the same intentions.

It's still happening even in Canada. I still get Christians trying to convert me. Now instead of just having brochures and magazines in English they have them in every language including Punjabi. Now who's upset that it's not in English or French. At the end of the day who cares what an ad is in. Know one reads ads anyways.

[Yodamaster]

It's still happening even in Canada. I still get Christians trying to convert me. Now instead of just having brochures and magazines in English they have them in every language including Punjabi. Now who's upset that it's not in English or French. At the end of the day who cares what an ad is in. Know one reads ads anyways.

What if it told you that one religion did not represent an entire race?

[Manic!]

What if it told you that one religion did not represent an entire race?

Neither does language.

[$_$]

I think it all boils down to respect and acceptance. It's not the fact that businesses shouldn't be allowed to post signs in whatever language they choose, but that they are choosing to segregate and isolate a large portion of the population who speak only English. I was one of the stronger proponents in the last thread about businesses being able to have signs in whatever language they wanted, but after speaking to a lot of people about this issue I have a slightly different angle on it.

Everybody likes to feel included, and everybody wants to feel welcomed. But if you were someone that doesn't speak Chinese walking in Richmond sometimes you just feel like you were somewhere completely different. Maybe the service wasn't targeted at you, but everybody likes to know whats going on. A single small tag line in English wouldn't have hurt or changed the context of the advertisement at all, and a simple gesture like that would have made people understand what the ad was about and still convey that the service is probably not for them, instead of feeling confused and probably a little frustrated. Gotta keep in mind this isn't some sort of restaurant sign or a menu, but an ad space that's right beside public transport.

Being second or third generation immigrants we should know better than that.. All throughout school we were taught to respect the culture of the immigration population. I think it's not too much to ask to show the local culture a little respect.

[320icar]

Holy shit what is going on in this thread. You guys are way off topic. Try and compare these two scenarios.

1. As a white man i walk into a restaurant at lunch time in richmond. All the menus are in mandarin and none of the waiting staff speak English. I try my best but eventually have to leave because i am unable to order my food.

2. An ad is placed in public view aimed at new immigrants from Asia, published by a charitable company. It's focus is aimed at helping with the many problems that a new immigrant may face (such as gambling addiction?). It is written in their native script due to the fact they are newly landed immigrants. But it is placed in a public area where many different races of people walk by everyday.

ONE of those scenarios is what some people in this thread is calling segregation and an unwillingness to assimilate or become 'more canadian'. The fact is lots of immigrants that come to Canada from ALL OVER THE WORLD have no interest in assimilating, nor being a true Canadian. That's fine by me. Be friendly, abide by our laws and pay taxes. Done and done. But do not segregate yourself from Canadian society and build a shelter for yourself that makes it impossible for me to order lunch in a public restaurant in my own country.

The other scenario is a well placed and well aimed ad that is meant to help people who may be in need. It is possible that this was the most effective way to reach their clientele. They are not trying to sell me the latest cell phone or get me to invest in housing development. If you guys have such a hard time dealing with the lack of English on this signage, I URGE YOU to go visit Quebec and see how they live over there. It's far worse than Richmond is for being English unfriendly.

Anyways. My point is perhaps this should be seen as a case by case basis. They have lots of gambling commercials and radio ads and printed full colour pictures of "know your limits, play within it". But guess what, white folks ain't the only people that gamble.
Posted via RS Mobile

[ae101]

^
im chinese & i lived in richmond since 94, i cant read chinese (i can barely even do english sometimes) yet i manage to order food very very well with english no problem in chinese restaurants (yes i can speak cantonese & mandarin)

if i go to a bbt place i would use mandarin as i always know what i want (for 25years i still order the same drink everytime), but everywhere else i sometimes use english just cuz i get confuse/mix with chinese translation in my mind (like dim sum, i know what i want in chinese but i cant read chinese & when i read the english it just doesnt sound right at all)

[320icar]

Yes, I do realize as i have lived in Richmond since always! I was just using it as an example, it was a fictional possible situation.

If you want a real situation, for a few years my friends and i would hit up #9 late at night. Even though the menus were printed in English* the wait staff had a very difficult time serving us. In a full restaurant there was one younger man who served and spoke English and he usually helped us. On about 3+ occasions we were seated, given tea, and then left alone. At 3am in a fairly empty restaurant it would take 30+ minutes for us to finally get a server over to us to slowly take our orders, usually incorrectly. We would watch Asian groups be seated and orders taken and given food while everyone else avoided our tables like the plague. And no we weren't young punks coming back from the clubs. More like hanging out playing video games and not wanting McDonald's at 3am.


*broken English being "gilled cheese sanwich" and my personal choice, "honey garlic rib all time favourite"
Posted via RS Mobile

[ae101]

lol at 3am & sober, i would not even walk in to no.9 for anything period

that place is just horrible period

[Noir]

There are more pressing issues to deal with such as poverty and drug addiction. Whether or not your feelings are hurt because you cannot read a sign is at the bottom of the list.

Also, should asian newspapers such as Ming Pao be writing all their articles in English so you can learn about Hong Kong celebrity gossip? Should they print all their advertisements in english as well?

You mean little by little, being unable to read, identify, and communicate the public signs and communique in your own home country is not a valid issue?

Honestly, I can see why she's racist, and as embarrassing as it is to admit, I don't blame her. We (or our parents) are just immigrants to Canada, and we have Canadian individuals who are starting to feel foreign in their own home country.

And instead of accomodating to them like they accomodate us, or even just give an acknowledgement of their concern, they get sneered at by the very same minorities they accommodated for, in the first place. I mean, just look at the majority sentiment in this thread alone.


^demographic
but ya i agree, if they don't choose to advertise in English then it's their loss or they're just targeting that audience. no harm done.
i can see the frustration in seeing something in public that you can't read, but that's part of being in a multicultural society. maybe take some Chinese lessons? opportunity to learn something new!

It's funny because back in the 90's that was just a joke around Richmond. Fast forward to now, I find it interesting to observe that people are actually saying this as a response to likes of Kerry Starchuk; to learn Chinese.

:rukidding:








BTW,

If this public ad is really about seeking help for gambling addictions (I don't know because I don't read Chinese), isn't this ad alienating caucasian gambling addicts? I mean, it's one thing to call Starchuk racist but to underhandedly cater Chinese-only service, that's equally, if not more racist than Starchuk's plea to have English inclusion in Chinese-only public communique.

[Manic!]

BTW,

If this public ad is really about seeking help for gambling addictions (I don't know because I don't read Chinese), isn't this ad alienating caucasian gambling addicts? I mean, it's one thing to call Starchuk racist but to underhandedly cater Chinese-only service, that's equally, if not more racist than Starchuk's plea to have English inclusion in Chinese-only public communique.

Every Casino and lotto ticket has the gambling support line number on it. It's even on the 6/49 selection slips. By not having this ad are you not discriminating against people that don't speak English?

Remember know your limit play with in it.

[320icar]

^^ i said all that already on the last page, noir just isn't reading the thread.
Posted via RS Mobile

[4444]

I might be wrong, but this is a fairly stupid thing to get upset about. There are English-language bus shelter ads for problem gambling throughout Metro, and you can find the phone number on the back of lottery tickets, in casinos, and at the bottom of most BCLC advertising.

In fact, it's a smart idea, because gambling is popular among traditionally minded or older Chinese who often struggle with English. Dictating that media must be in XYZ language is getting dangerously close to the Quebec way of handling things.

I'd like to hear from others whether I'm being unreasonable when I say this.

To me it's a thing of respect to the country and people you live in/with.

Canada, until the laws are changed has 2 official languages, English and French. I believe the laws state u can have non English and French signage up to 50% in size, so do English (or French) and mandarin/Cantonese (sorry I don't know which it is) signage to meet both requirements to appease law and appease the target market.

These comments are not based on my personal feelings, but on law.

My personal feelings are based on analogy. I recently moved to a non-English speaking European country with many, many English speaking expats. I immediately joined a local language class and have no expectation of signs being in English.

I'll let people make their own conclusions

[J____]

You tell if ever in history when a bunch of white people have gone to a another country and tried to force to local population to learn English and become Christian. That's never happened.


um... that's pretty much how north america was founded... I don't think english was the native language of native indians..

[El Bastardo]

um... that's pretty much how north america was founded... I don't think english was the native language of native indians..


http://i.imgur.com/9gS1L.gif

[Noir]

Every Casino and lotto ticket has the gambling support line number on it. It's even on the 6/49 selection slips. By not having this ad are you not discriminating against people that don't speak English?

Remember know your limit play with in it.

No.

IMO, usage of the country's official language is meeting the expected minimum standard of communication. Anything in addition to that is in the realm of "accommodation", not "discrimination".
Posted via RS Mobile

[Manic!]

No.

IMO, usage of the country's official language is meeting the expected minimum standard of communication. Anything in addition to that is in the realm of "accommodation", not "discrimination".
Posted via RS Mobile

And if we are willing to take there money in a Casino we should be willing help then when they have a problem. Casino's and the B.C. government have no problem taking their money in any language.

[snails]

you need to stop. lol you are repeating the same shit over and over.

just like there are standards of whats acceptable to put in ads on tv, there should be standards to at least acknowledged the English language as it is the main language. you sound far to entitled.

[Manic!]

you need to stop. lol you are repeating the same shit over and over.

just like there are standards of whats acceptable to put in ads on tv, there should be standards to at least acknowledged the English language as it is the main language. you sound far to entitled.

There are no standards on what language a TV ad can be in.

[snails]

There are no standards on what language a TV ad can be in.

did i say what language? i said standards.. you cant have some guy raping a kid on a tv ad. even with "freedom of speech"

now go away. you are no longer adding to this topic

[FerrariEnzo]

Why cant people who move to a new country learn their language/culture... its called respect.... Its ok to have communities, but if you dont openly share/invite it with people who arent from that culture, thats just disrespectful, at least thats what I think.

[Manic!]

did i say what language? i said standards.. you cant have some guy raping a kid on a tv ad. even with "freedom of speech"

now go away. you are no longer adding to this topic

How is raping a kid on a TV ad the same as a ad in a different language?

[snails]

How is raping a kid on a TV ad the same as a ad in a different language?

cuz i said "standards" as in rules.. an extreme case of course. but rules non the less.. i didnt compare them to be equal. i see that you like arguing. but you are grasping as anything you can.

[twdm]

cuz i said "standards" as in rules.. an extreme case of course. but rules non the less.. i didnt compare them to be equal. i see that you like arguing. but you are grasping as anything you can.

Last I heard, Fairchild TV is in all Chinese. There goes your language standards argument. If you feel there should be a language standard for ads, run for office. Make a referendum. Otherwise just walk by the ad without feeling the need to feel like the kid in school who nobody wants to play with. There's so much insecurity in this thread that I wonder how you function in life when people don't want to be your friend.


This argument is honestly really getting old and boring. Simple solution to this problem is to let any who wants to complain pay for translation of ads that were paid for by the company who posted them. If you really care for it then pay them to change it. I'm sure they'll be happy to post you a translation since it'll get them more exposure.

[snails]

you having troubles reading? i didnt say language standards.. i just said standards. im aware certain channels are designated to certain languages

:failed:

[snails]

post count +1 /life.mpeg

http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/abandon-thread-fuck-this-shit/picgifs-abandon-thread-fuck-this-shit-3857934.gif

[Great68]

I just fixed this problem by moving out of Richmond.

Was kind of funny when one of my Co-Workers (who immigrated here from China 4 years ago) told me why he decided to move to Victoria after living a year in Vancouver: "Because my daughter would never have learned english in Vancouver"

[Manic!]

you having troubles reading? i didnt say language standards.. i just said standards. im aware certain channels are designated to certain languages

:failed:

It's not about a designation it's about the money. You give a channel enough money they will broadcast in any language you want.

[twdm]

you having troubles reading? i didnt say language standards.. i just said standards. im aware certain channels are designated to certain languages

:failed:
You're saying English should be acknowledged. How do you acknowledge English in a foreign specialty channel? You're making ridiculous demands then not paying the cost so that you can feel special.

So are you going to force tourists to speak English so that you feel acknowledged? Do you feel left out that they can't communicate in English? Is there the Chinese sign monster that makes you cry at night because you can't read it?

Honestly, if you spent half the time worrying about this doing something productive, you'd be a happier person.

[snails]

You're saying English should be acknowledged. How do you acknowledge English in a foreign specialty channel

where? i cant find the post that i said English needs to be in a foreign specialty channel.. i said "just like there are standards of whats acceptable to put in ads on tv" that wasnt even a reference to language at all.. i said "there are standards" nothing to do with language. Richmond isnt a Chinese (referring to race not language) specified city regardless of the Chinese population there. so to turn it into something thats not welcoming to everyone else is a problem.

and again. a channel is something someone chooses to watch, a city isnt something someone should avoid because foreigners dont give a shit about the English language. the less acceptable it is for Richmond to become China the more they will assimilate and Richmond wont be so foreign to the rest of everyone that lives in the lower mainland.

[Noir]

Last I heard, Fairchild TV is in all Chinese. There goes your language standards argument. If you feel there should be a language standard for ads, run for office. Make a referendum. Otherwise just walk by the ad without feeling the need to feel like the kid in school who nobody wants to play with. There's so much insecurity in this thread that I wonder how you function in life when people don't want to be your friend.


The difference between TV and this topic is that I can choose not to view said Channel, or not purchase said "specialty network". Not the same can be said for public signage; And if you've followed the problem historically within Richmond, this issue is not just isolated to Bus Stop Ads.

The issue is, it's permeating. It used to be just restaurant signs; then came bus ads, then bus stop ads, then whatever the hell is next in line.

If we're gonna do an apples to apples comparison using your example, imagine the uproar if one by one, each channel in your standard cable is becoming becoming primarily Chinese?


This argument is honestly really getting old and boring. Simple solution to this problem is to let any who wants to complain pay for translation of ads that were paid for by the company who posted them. If you really care for it then pay them to change it. I'm sure they'll be happy to post you a translation since it'll get them more exposure.

The argument is getting old and boring because it's not you that's feeling alienated. Though I do agree with the second half of this post though; but on a different context.

I think we should remove alternate languages for Motor Vehicle Licensing testing. And if immigrants really care for it, then either, learn the host language, or pay for their own translation. I'm sure the Chinese community would not mind one single bit. :smug:



You're saying English should be acknowledged. How do you acknowledge English in a foreign specialty channel? You're making ridiculous demands then not paying the cost so that you can feel special.

So are you going to force tourists to speak English so that you feel acknowledged? Do you feel left out that they can't communicate in English? Is there the Chinese sign monster that makes you cry at night because you can't read it?

Honestly, if you spent half the time worrying about this doing something productive, you'd be a happier person.

What the heck do tourists have to do with this?

[Manic!]

The difference between TV and this topic is that I can choose not to view said Channel, or not purchase said "specialty network". Not the same can be said for public signage; And if you've followed the problem historically within Richmond, this issue is not just isolated to Bus Stop Ads.

The issue is, it's permeating. It used to be just restaurant signs; then came bus ads, then bus stop ads, then whatever the hell is next in line.

If we're gonna do an apples to apples comparison using your example, imagine the uproar if one by one, each channel in your standard cable is becoming becoming primarily Chinese?




The argument is getting old and boring because it's not you that's feeling alienated. Though I do agree with the second half of this post though; but on a different context.

I think we should remove alternate languages for Motor Vehicle Licensing testing. And if immigrants really care for it, then either, learn the host language, or pay for their own translation. I'm sure the Chinese community would not mind one single bit. :smug:





Great way to hurt the economy and alienate voters by forcing English and French only tests for a learners. FYI you don't have to be able to read English to be able to drive.

Ever see those teach English abroad ads in the paper? Guess what they don't care if you can speak their language and they will even give you a drivers licence too without speaking their language. All this talk about they should learn English before they come to Canada is B.S. Lots of Canadians including at least one RS member are teaching abroad without being fluent in that countries main language.


If cable goes all Chinese it's because that's what the market wants and we live in a free market society. Do you think I like shows like Honey Boo Boo and the desperate housewives? No but it's there right to produce all these crappy reality shows.

[RFlush]

Just curious, and not to pick a side or anything, but how many people in this thread have ever lived in a different country (outside of Canada) after the age of 18?

[MarkyMark]

Just curious, and not to pick a side or anything, but how many people in this thread have ever lived in a different country (outside of Canada) after the age of 18?

Is 18 the cut off where people think they are too old to learn something new?

To answer your question no I haven't, but let me ask you one as well. Would you have no desire to learn the language of the country you plan to spend your life in, regardless of age?

If I moved somewhere new and all I did was live in a part of the city where they speak English, I'd feel like I'm cheating myself and missing out on what this new place has to offer. I honestly do believe anyone who moves somewhere and just coasts along trying to get by on their old habits is just lazy and ignorant.

I'd be embarrassed at myself, which is how I feel for immigrants who have been here for years and still don't speak a lick of English.
Posted via RS Mobile

[stewie]

Great way to hurt the economy and alienate voters by forcing English and French only tests for a learners. FYI you don't have to be able to read English to be able to drive.

correct, you can be 100% deaf and drive, or be straight off a boat and drive, but it doesn't mean you know what signs say. how many times have you seen a foreign person sit at a green light with 20 cars honking behind him because he cant read a simple sign that says "NO LEFT TURN BETWEEN 7AM - 7PM". granted 100% capable English speaking people do it as well, but 9/10 times its a complete fob. whether they're being flat out ignorant and don't give a shit or cant read...people who don't know what street signs mean or don't know the rules of the road don't deserve to drive. I cant even count how many times ive set up construction sites, put up barricades with big orange signs saying "ROAD CLOSED" and have had flag girls stand there to prevent traffic from coming in...yet ive seen dozens upon dozens of fobs straddle the sidewalk and road to try to sneak around the barricades on residential streets. what makes me happy is that ive seen a few times where we've thrown shovels at their cars and have watched them get scared only to drive into the ditch we've been digging out that goes completely across the road. it may sound like im picking on Asians there...but to be honest, every single time ive seen it happen, it was an Asian driver...usually women, but men do it as well. never seen a brown/white/European person do it at one of our job sites.


Ever see those teach English abroad ads in the paper? Guess what they don't care if you can speak their language and they will even give you a drivers licence too without speaking their language. All this talk about they should learn English before they come to Canada is B.S. Lots of Canadians including at least one RS member are teaching abroad without being fluent in that countries main language.

big deal, they're willing to pay to learn English. they don't give 2 shits if you want to learn their language, they just want to learn yours. but they deserve a pat on their backs for paying to learn our language before they come to north America. hell even the ones who take English classes at night school...I could care less if they've been going for years and still have trouble speaking, but at least they're making an effort.

If cable goes all Chinese it's because that's what the market wants and we live in a free market society. Do you think I like shows like Honey Boo Boo and the desperate housewives? No but it's there right to produce all these crappy reality shows.

well obviously a good portion of the market doesn't want it.

the more I see this, the more the scene from American history x keeps popping in my mind thinking that it will probably happen when people get fed up. im referring to the scene where they stand outside a grocery store and raid the inside. only instead of raiding a market, its going to be vandalism on signs and a shitload of broken windows here.


you may not like shows like honey boo boo, but you have the choice to not watch it. when there's signs all over Richmond in 100% Chinese, im forced to see something I quite honestly don't want to see. canada is no longer canada, its make it what ever the hell you want. everyone bitches and complains about racism...theres a reason why it starts. they don't wake up one day and just say "I hate foreigners"...theres reasons that build up to it and truthfully, the signs are one of them that gets to me. on the sides of busses, billboards, 20 foot signs on buildings...

canada is slowly turning into canawhereverthefuckyoujustcamefromada

if that makes me racist then I really don't give a shit. don't like it, do something about it. but when shit like this happens and they start bitching about why people are racist towards them...they deserve a boot up the ass.

[Tone Loc]

Great way to hurt the economy and alienate voters by forcing English and French only tests for a learners. FYI you don't have to be able to read English to be able to drive.


:rukidding:

Not sure if serious.

I guess it's totally okay to have people on the road who don't understand what "STOP" means, or "Left turn signal delayed" or "right turn only", or the speed limit signs. Or people who don't know the names of the roads, or what the highway exit signs mean, or the warning billboards on the highway... yada yada yada. God forbid they don't understand the words/numbers on the dashboard of their own car either. Is this really the type of motorist you want to be dealing with on the road, in a 2+ ton vehicle?

You DO need to be able to read English to drive competently and according to the rules/regulations of the area. Considering all of our traffic signs are solely in English.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Why cant people who move to a new country learn their language/culture... its called respect.... Its ok to have communities, but if you dont openly share/invite it with people who arent from that culture, thats just disrespectful, at least thats what I think.

Is 18 the cut off where people think they are too old to learn something new?

To answer your question no I haven't, but let me ask you one as well. Would you have no desire to learn the language of the country you plan to spend your life in, regardless of age?

If I moved somewhere new and all I did was live in a part of the city where they speak English, I'd feel like I'm cheating myself and missing out on what this new place has to offer. I honestly do believe anyone who moves somewhere and just coasts along trying to get by on their old habits is just lazy and ignorant.

I'd be embarrassed at myself, which is how I feel for immigrants who have been here for years and still don't speak a lick of English.
Posted via RS Mobile

you are forgetting though, that's your perspective based on your values.

people are not all you.

have you ever gone to china? or taiwan? or japan? or anywhere in asia?

or anywhere in europe or south africa or south america?

there are plenty of people that are westerners... and immigrants. and they form their own communities and they never bother to learn or speak the local language.

it's actually pretty normal.

every time i go back to taipei or shanghai... i know a few westerners that have moved there. they don't speak or read any chinese.

well a little. they know how to order some foods, and say basic words. but they cant carry on a conversation and they cant read jack shit. except for like REALLY basic preschool shit.

no one gives a shit. as long as they can find a their own way, and survive, no one cares.

no one there imposes their shit on them.

why are you?

example is in asia, groups of westerners go to a restaurant, order shit and u see them taking out certain "gross" things they dont wanna eat, playing drums with their chopsticks or using their chopsticks as prodding devices. all of this shit considered ultra rude, but of course they're westerners, they duno that. u think anyone cares? no one cares. they let them do what they want. they understand they're westerners and thats how westerners are.

why do you care?

why does it bother you so much?

:rukidding:

Not sure if serious.

I guess it's totally okay to have people on the road who don't understand what "STOP" means, or "Left turn signal delayed" or "right turn only", or the speed limit signs. Or people who don't know the names of the roads, or what the highway exit signs mean, or the warning billboards on the highway... yada yada yada. God forbid they don't understand the words/numbers on the dashboard of their own car either. Is this really the type of motorist you want to be dealing with on the road, in a 2+ ton vehicle?

You DO need to be able to read English to drive competently and according to the rules/regulations of the area. Considering all of our traffic signs are solely in English.

i don't read chinese, but i get my international licence and i drive in asia fine.

people from other non english based countries can get international drivers licences and drive here too.

no you don't need english to drive. it's why signs are very international and color and shaped based.

it HELPS but you don't need it. and the law and examples i just gave provide enough support that you actually don't need to read to be able to drive.



i keep hearing people say subjective shit like
"if i were to move somewhere i'd spend the time to learn the culture and language"
"I would respect the local culture"
"I would... i would i... i ..i.i.i.i"

guess what, that's YOU. there's MANY types of people.

there are tons of chinese immigrants that have moved here that have learnt english and love hockey and all that other canadian crap.

and there's tons that havent.

likewise overseas. like i have said. tons of you westerners that have learnt jack shit and don't care either. and tons of you that have.

like i said, your values. do not impose them on others. it's not about respecting cultures or whatever. it's called respecting humans and the fact that we live in a GLOBAL system where all values and all languages are accepted. don't be so egocentric... or i should say egoculturalcentric.

you guys have no idea how many times i get in a cab in a foreign place, and the cabbies are all listening to english tapes, learning english in their cars. asking me grammar questions or definitions of words or how to use words.
how many of you are learning chinese, or any other language on your spare time to become more globalized? none? i thought so.

your little worlds don't function the way you want. they function the way the world demands. understand that? the world is not just made up of your culture or your traditions, or your nation or your laws, or your wants and needs or your values.

look at it from a global perspective and you'll understand the frustration which you have created and imposed on yourself.

understand there are many traditions, cultures, wants, needs and values. and they most likely don't all align with yours. and most likely they will live amongst you. AND you will have to deal with it. cuz you live in the same world as them. you're gonna have to share, everything.

and if you don't like it, you can move away, or go to war. i'm sure someone is up to accept your challenge.

[stewie]

you are forgetting though, that's your perspective based on your values.

people are not all you.

have you ever gone to china? or taiwan? or japan? or anywhere in asia?

or anywhere in europe or south africa or south america?

there are plenty of people that are westerners... and immigrants. and they form their own communities and they never bother to learn or speak the local language.

it's actually pretty normal.

every time i go back to taipei or shanghai... i know a few westerners that have moved there. they don't speak or read any chinese.

well a little. they know how to order some foods, and say basic words. but they cant carry on a conversation and they cant read jack shit. except for like REALLY basic preschool shit.

no one gives a shit. as long as they can find a their own way, and survive, no one cares.

no one there imposes their shit on them.

why are you?

example is in asia, groups of westerners go to a restaurant, order shit and u see them taking out certain "gross" things they dont wanna eat, playing drums with their chopsticks or using their chopsticks as prodding devices. all of this shit considered ultra rude, but of course they're westerners, they duno that. u think anyone cares? no one cares. they let them do what they want. they understand they're westerners and thats how westerners are.

why do you care?

why does it bother you so much?



i don't read chinese, but i get my international licence and i drive in asia fine.

people from other non english based countries can get international drivers licences and drive here too.

no you don't need english to drive. it's why signs are very international and color and shaped based.

it HELPS but you don't need it. and the law and examples i just gave provide enough support that you actually don't need to read to be able to drive.



i keep hearing people say subjective shit like
"if i were to move somewhere i'd spend the time to learn the culture and language"
"I would respect the local culture"
"I would... i would i... i ..i.i.i.i"

guess what, that's YOU. there's MANY types of people.

there are tons of chinese immigrants that have moved here that have learnt english and love hockey and all that other canadian crap.

and there's tons that havent.

likewise overseas. like i have said. tons of you westerners that have learnt jack shit and don't care either. and tons of you that have.

like i said, your values. do not impose them on others. it's not about respecting cultures or whatever. it's called respecting humans and the fact that we live in a GLOBAL system where all values and all languages are accepted. don't be so egocentric... or i should say egoculturalcentric.

you guys have no idea how many times i get in a cab in a foreign place, and the cabbies are all listening to english tapes, learning english in their cars.

your little worlds don't function the way you want. they function the way the world demands. understand that? the world is not just made up of your culture or your traditions, or your nation or your laws, or your wants and needs or your values.

look at it from a global perspective and you'll understand the frustration which you have created and imposed on yourself.

understand there are many traditions, cultures, wants, needs and values. and they most likely don't all align with yours. and most likely they will live amongst you. AND you will have to deal with it. cuz you live in the same world as them. you're gonna have to share, everything.

and if you don't like it, you can move away, or go to war. i'm sure someone is up to accept your challenge.
(was a long quote)

there may be westerners all over the world who form their own little communities in other countries, but they're little communities, they don't take over an entire city from the locals and say 'don't like it? move away'.

you said no one cares so long as they can find their own way and a way to survive. what happens when them finding "their way" causes you to have to alter "your way"? cause when push comes to shove, I push back.

telling us to not impose our values on others in our country? gimme a break. it is about respect, and anyone who denies it is a self centered jackass who thinks they can do whatever they want wherever they want however they want. but sure, your right, you can do whatever you want, but expect some backlash from others...kinda like the people in here who are against the signs, we voice our opinions about it. I would LOVE to see something done about it, but I don't expect it to happen because Canada is to pathetic when it comes to this shit, therefor I live with it and voice my opinion.


ive absolutely NO problem with other cultures living amongst me...really...I don't. if someone wants to open up a restaurant, give it a name that EVERYONE should be able to understand. how am I supposed to tell my friends to meet me for lunch? "you guys wanna go to the place with the squiggly line that has a T with those two lines through it going up and down followed by that half square thing?".

I understand what sharing is, people want to move here and live with us, great, feel free to do so, im all up for it. but coming here and saying MINE and turning a city into their own...no. its why I don't go to Richmond, I avoid it like the plague. ive had way to many close calls from old incompetent drivers, and I really don't find it appealing to walk down a street and not be able to pronounce a single sign on a store and have to feel excluded from my own country. ive learned our national languages, now do your part.

reminds me of that picture of a guy on a Harley, back of his leather jacket says "I will not learn another language in my own country" followed by an American flag under it....ironically America doesn't have a national language at a federal level...but this is Canada, and we do, English or French, learn it and use it in public. you have friends who've moved to asia who can speak just enough to order food and say basic words...have they ever flipped out in a store/restaurant because the clerk couldn't understand English and what he was trying to order like they do here and start demanding they hire Asian workers?

all this, If I were to...if I did this...if I moved there, etc etc. yes, that's ME, and theres MANY like me. so call me racist, I don't care, cause in the end, its just your opinion, but apparently nobody gives two shits about others opinions.

[Manic!]

I wonder what people in Europe do with all those countries and languages. There roads must be just chaos.

Quebec stop sign:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1wDd7ZmEiE8/TGl0dWg_huI/AAAAAAAAC0o/q-F7Prx-IhY/s400/IMG_4619.JPG

Do you know what that means?

Inuit stop sign:

http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/Pix/BA/88/BA.0810-10_P.JPG

Oh no what are the francophones going to do?

"NAGAASI": stop sign in the Mi'Kmaq (Algonquin) language. Photo taken in the Elsipogtog First Nation, New Brunswick, Canada

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/MiKmaqStopSign.jpg/600px-MiKmaqStopSign.jpg


English: A stop sign in en:Chisasibi, Quebec

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Chisasibi_-_stop_sign.jpg/800px-Chisasibi_-_stop_sign.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Panneau_d%27arr%C3%AAt_%C3%A0_Wendake_Qu%C3%A9bec. jpg/800px-Panneau_d%27arr%C3%AAt_%C3%A0_Wendake_Qu%C3%A9bec. jpg


You also have to pass a road test. Meaning you have to be able to drive on Canadian streets.

[snails]

You also have to pass a road test. Meaning you have to be able to drive on Canadian streets.

or you know.. buy your licence.. or take a relatives.. cuz thats never happened before right

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

there may be westerners all over the world who form their own little communities in other countries, but they're little communities, they don't take over an entire city from the locals and say 'don't like it? move away'.

that's because there's not enough of them. if there were enough of them, like there are enough chinese here. they would totally.

there are bars there where it's owned by westerners. run by westerners. everyone speaks english inside. everyone's watching sports and doing other westerner shit.

guess what... some asians still go there cuz they like that atmosphere and it gives them a chance to learn english and interact with foreigners.

like i said, if there are enough people, they would.


you said no one cares so long as they can find their own way and a way to survive. what happens when them finding "their way" causes you to have to alter "your way"? cause when push comes to shove, I push back.

it's not causing me to alter my ways.

cuz my ways never involved forcing my values on others.

so what if you cant read the signs? when I travel i could never read the signs. I'm chinese and i cant read chinese. I'm surrounded by chinese shit all the time and i cant read chinese. at chinese dinners i cant understand half the shit people are saying. i cant understand what the waiters are saying.

I moved to richmond (from as west side as you can get, the whitest part of town), I can't read any of those chinese signs. I can't understand any cantonese (this was especially bad 10 years ago when it was all Cantonese speakers). SO WHAT?

don't you think you might just be a little privileged to be living in a bubble which no outsiders were allowed to influence? and now that there's enough of them, suddenly, your "ways" get shattered.

or was it that your ways were just ignorant and not considerate of the rest of the world?


telling us to not impose our values on others in our country? gimme a break. it is about respect, and anyone who denies it is a self centered jackass who thinks they can do whatever they want wherever they want however they want. but sure, your right, you can do whatever you want, but expect some backlash from others...kinda like the people in here who are against the signs, we voice our opinions about it. I would LOVE to see something done about it, but I don't expect it to happen because Canada is to pathetic when it comes to this shit, therefor I live with it and voice my opinion.

or maybe canada doesn't do anything about it because the government's view is from a macro perspective. numbers, and the globe are considered. not just immediate traditions and values of a few people that only view things from their own egocentric views.

in otherwords... there are a lot more people in this world that view the world as i have stated vs, you guys.


ive absolutely NO problem with other cultures living amongst me...really...I don't. if someone wants to open up a restaurant, give it a name that EVERYONE should be able to understand. how am I supposed to tell my friends to meet me for lunch? "you guys wanna go to the place with the squiggly line that has a T with those two lines through it going up and down followed by that half square thing?".

dude... that's a pathetic excuse. have you ever lived in another country with fellow westerners?

how do you think they meet up at places when they cant read or write or speak any of the langauges. there are cross streets. there are descriptions of the awnings hanging over the business. or simple shit like "yo that good noodle place on that street corner we always go to".

and guess what, we order food by pointing at other tables. or using google translate.


I understand what sharing is, people want to move here and live with us, great, feel free to do so, im all up for it. but coming here and saying MINE and turning a city into their own...no. its why I don't go to Richmond, I avoid it like the plague. ive had way to many close calls from old incompetent drivers, and I really don't find it appealing to walk down a street and not be able to pronounce a single sign on a store and have to feel excluded from my own country. ive learned our national languages, now do your part.

you only feel excluded because you imposed those values on yourself.

many people don't feel excluded because they realise not everything has to be screaming at you to make you feel included ... to actually be included.

A SIMPLE EXAMPLE IS....

when i go take a walk in nature... nothing speaks my language. the animals stare at me and run away. they dont like interacting with me. i can't really survive or interact at all with any of nature in a fluent way. do i start screaming i don't feel like im included?!

NO.

you seem like a guy that's super insecure with your surroundings. you have to feel like you're in control by being able to read or understand or whatever. you do realise that's all illusionary and in reality you're no more included in an all english speaking place vs some foreign place.



reminds me of that picture of a guy on a Harley, back of his leather jacket says "I will not learn another language in my own country" followed by an American flag under it....ironically America doesn't have a national language at a federal level...but this is Canada, and we do, English or French, learn it and use it in public. you have friends who've moved to asia who can speak just enough to order food and say basic words...have they ever flipped out in a store/restaurant because the clerk couldn't understand English and what he was trying to order like they do here and start demanding they hire Asian workers?

i can take that to another level... "I will not learn another language on my own planet".

and yes. they do flip out. i see ignorant guys like you in asia. where they are trying to order something simple. but they just dont speak the language. and their elitist western attitude makes them flip out and they start yelling. or muttering "stupid fucking waiter, cant even understand basic blahbalhba".


all this, If I were to...if I did this...if I moved there, etc etc. yes, that's ME, and theres MANY like me. so call me racist, I don't care, cause in the end, its just your opinion, but apparently nobody gives two shits about others opinions.

yeah there's many like you. but there's about 1000000x more of us. so what now?



to be honest this whole thing just feels like people that are very insecure with their surroundings. they get security through some artificial illusionary feeling of control...

and also their points of views and points of attack are SO egotistical.

they think the chinese are coming here and INTENTIONALLY trying to take over and destroy their "ways". and DEMANDING that they have services for english because they're TOO LAZY to LEARN english.

the matter of the fact is, they're not here intentionally trying to fuck your shit up.
the world has just expanded into your little world and you see it as a threat. the reality of the fact is, the world has always been this way, and for once... vancouver is actually becoming a bigger city than just some... small pathetic town where everyone is an identical copy of each other.

you think other big cities don't have areas that are almost exclusively catered for and populated by certain cultures and ethnicities? china towns? east indian towns? russians? africans? the list can go on forever. it's called being part of a city that is expanding into something bigger.

big cities, or cities becoming big, are destined all to have areas that are totally different than other areas.

this isn't fucking kelowna or some butt fuck backwater town that starts with "saint".

there WILL be parts of town that are different than your culture. and as the city expands, i expect this pattern will duplicate and expand even more with other cultures and peoples. and the scales will be relative to population of the minorities.

there's no way around it buddy. the rest of the world adapts like that. who do you think you are?

this isn't about them forcing you to be some religion or whatever. it's a LANGUAGE barrier.
and the people that are more globalist, and can speak multiple languages will DOMINATE.
the people that don't will suffer.

and stop being so ego centric. MY country. MY land.
it aint your place buddy. its ours. everyone that lives on this planet.

the only place you can call your own, is your home. you can speak whatever language and do whatever you want at home.



edit: lol, you guys are no different than the white bigots in the USA that hate on the hispanics. and feel that hispanic culture is intentionally there to destroy good ol' murica.
you guys are EXACTLY the same.

this is exactly what you guys sound like to the rest of the world:
Mexican vs White racist AMERICAN TRASH . May Day 2012 . Santa Ana , California - YouTube
his arguments and perspective are no different than yours.

if you think the government or people will actually do anything.... lol good luck.
if americans are much more traditionalist and right wing than we are, and they let hispanics in...

what makes you think a country x10 more accepting, free and liberal, will do anything about your issues around this problem?


and here's your first chinese lesson to help you start off better in this new world:
書不盡言 言不盡意
(Shū bù jìn yán yán bù jìn yì)
Writing cannot express all words, words cannot encompass all ideas.
- Confucius

[Manic!]

or you know.. buy your licence.. or take a relatives.. cuz thats never happened before right

Yes take a relatives because we all look alike right?

[Noir]

edit: lol, you guys are no different than the white bigots in the USA that hate on the hispanics. and feel that hispanic culture is intentionally there to destroy good ol' murica.
you guys are EXACTLY the same.


Uhhhh...

Nobody is here is complaining that the Chinese are here to destroy good-ol'-Canada.

Nobody is calling for the prohibition of foreign languages

What everyone is just calling for... is just consideration for the host language. That's all. Even the staunchest, most vocal advocate, Kerry Starchuk, isn't asking for anything more than that.


How people are translating that plea of consideration, as an attack to the foreign community, racial discrimination, a tresspass to individual rights, I have no clue.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Uhhhh...

Nobody is here is complaining that the Chinese are here to destroy good-ol'-Canada.

Nobody is calling for the prohibition of foreign languages

What everyone is just calling for... is just consideration for the host language. That's all. Even the staunchest, most vocal advocate, Kerry Starchuk, isn't asking for anything more than that.


How people are translating that plea of consideration, as an attack to the foreign community, racial discrimination, a tresspass to individual rights, I have no clue.

there attitudes are the same. if they didn't care about personal reputation they would say the same.

The way the man in the video describes mexicans and their culture and mannerisms... is the same way people describe the mainlanders in richmond.

and they're the same people that are anti chinese signs.

I'm sure there are anti chinese sign people that arent racial bigots, but just wanting equal langauge use. BUT you must realise theyre the minority within the group against this shit. most of the people against this are just racist at best. this language thing is just an excuse for them to lash out at the most politically correct thing.

all you hear in threads like this are fucking richmond drivers, littering, not holding doors open, peeing in public etc etc... and MY land MY culture, MY whatever. "if you're so proud of your country, go back to it". exactly like the video of that american.

they are EXACTLY the same.

if they could have their way, they wouldn't just change the signs. they would get rid of anyone that doesn't conform to their idea of canada. which would obviously be getting rid of the chinese. they would get rid of anyone that didn't act white canadian.

I'm not talking about the people you see in the news. im talking about real people. like the people in this thread.

you can obviously see the fear in this thread of the chinese destroying their ways, and their culture. and whatever else.

[bobbinka]

You guys do realize that this country was founded based on two foreign populations (british and french) arriving, plotting their english and french stuff everywhere, taking over land, and calling it their own place, right?

People feel so entitled to everything, that everyone and everything needs to cater to them. -"I live in Canada, I shouldn't have to put up with this or that". -"That sign that is completely irrelevant to me is in a different language, I don't want to see that shit".

Do you get mad when the couple standing next to you on the bus, or sitting at the table next to you, are speaking another language? If you don't, then why should this be any different? Just as you have a choice not to pay attention to the conversation that you don't understand, you have a choice not to keep staring at a sign you don't understand. If it does bother you, please share with us why its so "disrespectful". What exactly are they disrespecting? I guess it's possible they're making fun of your insecurity, but then so could anyone else in any language or form.

Do you know what I do when I see a sign I can't read? I move the hell on with my life. The world continues to revolve. Things don't stay the same forever. Those of you saying "i would never go to Richmond b/c of this and that", you might as well just move out of Vancouver cause we all know more and more immigrants will continue to come here. It'll be a win-win for everyone.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Richmond wont be so foreign to the rest of everyone that lives in the lower mainland.

richmond is only foreign to people that are uncultured and grew up sheltered in their own little bubbles.

[donjalapeno]

The biggest problem i have is that most cultures adapt to the Canadian way of living (i.e.: driving habits, basic public etiquette etc) when they immigrate to Canada but i feel like the Asian community doesn't adapt at all infact they try to make it more like China or Taiwan or Vietnam. If you don't believe me spend a day in Richmond or even Metrotown area (Crystal mall). I have worked in the Metrotown area for quite some time and i've been noticing more and more of it. How can you live somewhere for more than 3 years minimum and not know how to speak the language? How do you drive on Canadian roads without knowing basic shit like yield to oncoming traffic before turning left or staying in your own lane. How do you walk on our clean sidewalks for 3 years and still not know that spitting phlegm is wrong and frowned upon (numerous times i have had phlegm spat on my shoe or pants by accident).

If your going to live here respect the way we live here.

/endrant



PS: I'm not saying everyone is like that alot of them are classy and respectful individuals.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah, so now you feel the polar opposite. how do you think everyone else feels when westerners encroach on their lands?

the reason why all other cultures try so fucking hard to adapt to western standards are cuz, there are really only two super powers. THE WEST AND THE EAST.
everyone else is in between and has to suck up to one of them.

and now that the EAST is coming here... they don't suck up to the west. they don't adapt to the west. JUST LIKE THE WEST WONT ADAPT TO THE EAST.

the chinese are never going to bow down to the west. the same goes for westerners. just look around the world. when has the west ever adapted to another way of living? NEVER. when have the chinese? NEVER.

it's pretty simple.
it's what happens when two alpha cultures clash.
the only way to deal with it. IS TO DEAL WITH IT.

or go to war. i think we all agree dealing and accepting one another is the better route.

and like bobbinka said... if you don't get offended when youre in public and a buncha people are speaking another language... why would you get offended by signs....

unless YOU ARE one of those who get offended and feel fucking insecure when people speak another language around you. which i am guessing most anti chinese sign people are. fucking insecurities man.

[Manic!]

Canadian way of living (i.e.: driving habits, basic public etiquette etc) w

explain this?

[Xu.Vi]

Never even thought of this to be such a big issue to most people...lol.:pokerface:

[Yodamaster]

explain this?

Every time a foreigner has held the door open for me, it wasn't a foreigner.

Every time a foreigner has said thank you if I hold the door open for them, it wasn't a foreigner.

Just yesterday I witnessed a foreigner trying to turn left on a street that did not allow left turns, it was a foreigner.


When I was in the US, I had a hard time squeezing a thank you out of people for actions that would seem natural here, it's a cultural issue.

I don't see how you didn't know exactly what he was talking about, tons of people blabber on about it every day, and it's almost a guarantee that people have talked about these issues near you.


The fact that people say Canadians are "nice" is enough to know that there's something different about us, and it's an almost foolproof way of identifying who is who.

[MarkyMark]

Every time a foreigner has held the door open for me, it wasn't a foreigner.

Every time a foreigner has said thank you if I hold the door open for them, it wasn't a foreigner.

Just yesterday I witnessed a foreigner trying to turn left on a street that did not allow left turns, it was a foreigner.


When I was in the US, I had a hard time squeezing a thank you out of people for actions that would seem natural here, it's a cultural issue.

I don't see how you didn't know exactly what he was talking about, tons of people blabber on about it every day, and it's almost a guarantee that people have talked about these issues near you.


The fact that people say Canadians are "nice" is enough to know that there's something different about us, and it's an almost foolproof way of identifying who is who.

Every time you let a foreigner cut in front of you while driving and they wave thanks, it wasn't a foreigner.

This games fun! Or racist according to some people in this thread. But whatever, "no ones entitled to be nice to you people are gonna do whatever they want blah blah blah you can't stop the East baby come at us bro what you gonna do about it."

[bobbinka]

Cultural evolution.

What we define as our culture (or "way of living") today, is not what it always will be. Culture is dependent on the people living in that society. It's constantly changing and evolving little by little (for better or worse). It's inevitable.

China's population is 19% of the world's population. Canada's population is less than 1% of the world's. Maybe we should all be learning Chinese instead?

[Manic!]

Every time a foreigner has held the door open for me, it wasn't a foreigner.

Every time a foreigner has said thank you if I hold the door open for them, it wasn't a foreigner.

Just yesterday I witnessed a foreigner trying to turn left on a street that did not allow left turns, it was a foreigner.


When I was in the US, I had a hard time squeezing a thank you out of people for actions that would seem natural here, it's a cultural issue.

I don't see how you didn't know exactly what he was talking about, tons of people blabber on about it every day, and it's almost a guarantee that people have talked about these issues near you.


The fact that people say Canadians are "nice" is enough to know that there's something different about us, and it's an almost foolproof way of identifying who is who.

Maybe that's because you live in a place full of foreigner's. Same stuff happens in towns full of white people. Right down the street form were a I live there is a no u turn sign and guess what people still make u turns.

I am sorry you were but hurt because someone did not say thank you. so here:

Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You

That should cover you for a year. Let me know if you need more.


And here is video of some nice Canadians for you to make you feel even better:

Apparent Racist Attack on Jay Phillips in Courtenay BC CANADA - YouTube

[Yodamaster]

Burnaby is not a place full of foreigners.

I don't get mad over people not saying thank you, I am dissapointed at most. I've been alive in this country long enough to know that there is a status quo, and that it is fairly easy to see which people are either rude or from another land based on their every day actions.

If you're being subtle about calling me racist, I'll let you in on the fact that a lot of second generation (or older) asians I've met are just as kind as any other Canadian, because they are Canadian. Every district, region, country, and/or municipality has their own set of unwritten rules that 80% of the population follow.

[donjalapeno]

explain this?

Read my comment. If you can't milk your question out of it then I can't simplify it further down for you.

Cultural evolution.

What we define as our culture (or "way of living") today, is not what it always will be. Culture is dependent on the people living in that society. It's constantly changing and evolving little by little (for better or worse). It's inevitable.

China's population is 19% of the world's population. Canada's population is less than 1% of the world's. Maybe we should all be learning Chinese instead?

Population doesn't matter at all, If you live in my land adapt to the way my people live and learn the language.

[bobbinka]

Every time a foreigner has held the door open for me, it wasn't a foreigner.

The fact that people say Canadians are "nice" is enough to know that there's something different about us, and it's an almost foolproof way of identifying who is who.

I dont know about you, but when I hold the door open for someone it's because I don't want the door to hit them in the face, not because I want him/her to say "thank you" nor do I expect one... cause really, it doesn't matter.

Yes, it's a cultural issue, but people dont just step off a plane and BAM become "more canadian" and start doing things the way we do them. If we keep doing nice things (because that's Canadian) for these people, eventually they'll pick up on it and start doing it too. This is how we help them adapt and adjust to us.

[Manic!]

Population doesn't matter at all, If you live in my land adapt to the way my people live and learn the language.

So how much land do you own?

[bobbinka]

Population doesn't matter at all, If you live in my land adapt to the way my people live and learn the language.

That's what the Native Indians thought....

[Yodamaster]

I dont know about you, but when I hold the door open for someone it's because I don't want the door to hit them in the face, not because I want him/her to say "thank you" nor do I expect one... cause really, it doesn't matter.

Yes, it's a cultural issue, but people dont just step off a plane and BAM become "more canadian" and start doing things the way we do them. If we keep doing nice things (because that's Canadian) for these people, eventually they'll pick up on it and start doing it too. This is how we help them adapt and adjust to us.


Please and thank you is taught in preschool, it's a verbal gesture that most often accompanies a positive physical one. I open the door for people regardless, what they do about it is extra and/or part of the puzzle that I sometimes put together.

Canadian hospitality is equal to lines on a road when it comes to adoption of knowledge and practice of that knowledge, I specifically quoted this when I mentioned that second generation Canadians are often much more in tune than first generation immigrants.

[Noir]

You guys do realize that this country was founded based on two foreign populations (british and french) arriving, plotting their english and french stuff everywhere, taking over land, and calling it their own place, right?

People feel so entitled to everything, that everyone and everything needs to cater to them. -"I live in Canada, I shouldn't have to put up with this or that". -"That sign that is completely irrelevant to me is in a different language, I don't want to see that shit".

Do you get mad when the couple standing next to you on the bus, or sitting at the table next to you, are speaking another language? If you don't, then why should this be any different? Just as you have a choice not to pay attention to the conversation that you don't understand, you have a choice not to keep staring at a sign you don't understand. If it does bother you, please share with us why its so "disrespectful". What exactly are they disrespecting? I guess it's possible they're making fun of your insecurity, but then so could anyone else in any language or form.

Do you know what I do when I see a sign I can't read? I move the hell on with my life. The world continues to revolve. Things don't stay the same forever. Those of you saying "i would never go to Richmond b/c of this and that", you might as well just move out of Vancouver cause we all know more and more immigrants will continue to come here. It'll be a win-win for everyone.

Are you kidding me? You're going to use the "entitlement" argument? I mean c'mon. Is it that audacious for Canadians to feel entitled within their own country? :lol

And seriously, if we're talking about the Chinese commmunity, I think they should be the last to be able to throw up an "entitlement" argument.

- Canada decides to discontinue a certain Visa program, sue the gov't of Canada

- What? McDonalds does not have a mandatory Chinese speaking employee? Accuse them of human rights violation.

Good to see you have to go all the way back to the colonial era to justify your argument in today's context.


richmond is only foreign to people that are uncultured and grew up sheltered in their own little bubbles.

No.

Maybe that's because you live in a place full of foreigner's. Same stuff happens in towns full of white people. Right down the street form were a I live there is a no u turn sign and guess what people still make u turns.

I am sorry you were but hurt because someone did not say thank you. so here:

Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank YouThank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You Thank You

That should cover you for a year. Let me know if you need more.

Man, you're just being a dick.





Honestly, this thread just re-affirms a lot of the negative stereotype hovering around the Chinese community. You can write essays why you think this is just, you can go back to our ancestral history to justify your stance, but this has nothing to do with "bowing down to the west" or "who was here first, vs who is majority now" argument.

This is about ability to exist cohesively when sharing the same living space; and it's not going to happen if one party is going to continue neglecting consideration for the other. This goes both ways, from Canadians to the Chinese or as being discussed right now, the reverse.

[Manic!]

Is this what you want Canada to be? Quebec language cops say there is too much Italian on Italian restaurant?s menu | Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/02/20/quebec_language_cops_say_there_is_too_much_italian _on_italian_restaurants_menu.html)

[Yodamaster]

Is this what you want Canada to be? Quebec language cops say there is too much Italian on Italian restaurant?s menu | Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/02/20/quebec_language_cops_say_there_is_too_much_italian _on_italian_restaurants_menu.html)

"For example, the agency says “bottiglia,” which is Italian for bottle, should be “bouteille” on the wine list. Using “calamari” instead of the French word for squid is also a little fishy."

I wouldn't recognize what "bottiglia" was unless there was a picture or list of commonly recognizable wines under it, the calamari is just the french being picky, they know exactly what it means, as does the rest of the world.

Anton's does a good job of describing what they are serving under the Italian name for the dish. I've been to asian restaurants locally where I could not discern what was what, since there was no english description under the name of the dish.

[RFlush]

Is 18 the cut off where people think they are too old to learn something new?

To answer your question no I haven't, but let me ask you one as well. Would you have no desire to learn the language of the country you plan to spend your life in, regardless of age?

If I moved somewhere new and all I did was live in a part of the city where they speak English, I'd feel like I'm cheating myself and missing out on what this new place has to offer. I honestly do believe anyone who moves somewhere and just coasts along trying to get by on their old habits is just lazy and ignorant.

I'd be embarrassed at myself, which is how I feel for immigrants who have been here for years and still don't speak a lick of English.
Posted via RS Mobile
I stated 18 because at that age, you are probably finished high school and entering university or joining the work force. In High school, there are programs for foreigners to learn English. In university abroad, most likely you will take all your classes in English as there is no way you can take any classes in the local language with 0 knowledge of the language. If you are working, most likely you will be working at an English speaking job.

A lot of people here talk big, as in saying "people should learn the local language within a minimum of 3 years" etc. But I guess not many people could answer my original question of 'how many of you have moved abroad?'. You think it's as simple as just moving and bam, you are immersed in the local culture? You guys are dreaming! There is a reason why there are expat communities around and foreigners sticking together. I have known people in many asian countries who cannot speak the local language at all. Even myself I can't read/write in Chinese while I am in HK and my cantonese is at a basic conversation level. So I am basically the same as a mainlander in Vancouver (Although, yes I know, HK still has English as an official language but let's be real here).

You guys who were born and lived in Vancouver your whole life really have no clue how it is like outside of Canada. Traveling for 2 weeks somewhere does not count either.


Now, I am not saying this is right. I do agree to some extent that people should know the local language. All I am saying, its not as easy as many of you think it is.

[bobbinka]

Are you kidding me? You're going to use the "entitlement" argument? I mean c'mon. Is it that audacious for Canadians to feel entitled within their own country? :lol

And seriously, if we're talking about the Chinese commmunity, I think they should be the last to be able to throw up an "entitlement" argument.

The Chinese lady suing Mcdonalds, the white lady that wants the signs taken down.... They're all Canadian citizens. And it's all just as stupid. I'm not saying it's okay for one to feel entitled and the other not to.


Good to see you have to go all the way back to the colonial era to justify your argument in today's context.

The point is that our country was formed with a population of vast differences (british, french, and the native indians). We then became the place where people of ALL different cultures came. We are proud of our multiculturalism.


This is about ability to exist cohesively when sharing the same living space; and it's not going to happen if one party is going to continue neglecting consideration for the other. This goes both ways, from Canadians to the Chinese or as being discussed right now, the reverse.

I absolutely agree with that. Except all of this over a sign is just stupid, hence the entitlement argument.

[ae101]

"For example, the agency says “bottiglia,” which is Italian for bottle, should be “bouteille” on the wine list. Using “calamari” instead of the French word for squid is also a little fishy."

I wouldn't recognize what "bottiglia" was unless there was a picture or list of commonly recognizable wines under it, the calamari is just the french being picky, they know exactly what it means, as does the rest of the world.

Anton's does a good job of describing what they are serving under the Italian name for the dish. I've been to asian restaurants locally where I could not discern what was what, since there was no english description under the name of the dish.

if there is no english then im pretty should they know that a non-chinese person would not want to eat this dish, like cows penis or pigs intestines or other animal organs

or they just cant come out up with a name & ingredients list is just way too long lol

if a chinese books store just sells chineses books, would they really need english signs ? what are the chances of u (non chinese reading person) going to the books store to get a chinese book? .........unless if was chinese porno mag lol but im sure u non chinese reading folks wont be going there either to get chinese porno lol

i know in restaurants yes, but some chinese food courts.........i dont really care as some chinese food courts are always empty & u rarely see chinese ppl there let alone non-chinese person

yes this is coming from a chinese guy thats 25yrs old & has been in richmond since 94 that sometimes cant even do english properly, let alone read chinese lol

[ae101]

I stated 18 because at that age, you are probably finished high school and entering university or joining the work force. In High school, there are programs for foreigners to learn English. In university abroad, most likely you will take all your classes in English as there is no way you can take any classes in the local language with 0 knowledge of the language. If you are working, most likely you will be working at an English speaking job.

A lot of people here talk big, as in saying "people should learn the local language within a minimum of 3 years" etc. But I guess not many people could answer my original question of 'how many of you have moved abroad?'. You think it's as simple as just moving and bam, you are immersed in the local culture? You guys are dreaming! There is a reason why there are expat communities around and foreigners sticking together. I have known people in many asian countries who cannot speak the local language at all. Even myself I can't read/write in Chinese while I am in HK and my cantonese is at a basic conversation level. So I am basically the same as a mainlander in Vancouver (Although, yes I know, HK still has English as an official language but let's be real here).

You guys who were born and lived in Vancouver your whole life really have no clue how it is like outside of Canada. Traveling for 2 weeks somewhere does not count either.


Now, I am not saying this is right. I do agree to some extent that people should know the local language. All I am saying, its not as easy as many of you think it is.

thats true, when i was a kid i saw my mom struggle with english, she cried almost every night after me & my sister went to sleep which some how cause her to get depression for a bit & my dad was never around most of the time

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

well obviously there is a divide on this subject.

there's them, and then there's everyone else including every level of the government of canada.

I don't think we really need to argue. the world agrees with us.



like Rflush and I have said many times, you guys should go travel, see the world and more importantly live somewhere completely foreign, and hopefully come to a realisation on how things actually work.

[stewie]

well obviously there is a divide on this subject.

there's them, and then there's everyone else including every level of the government of canada.

I don't think we really need to argue. the world agrees with us.



like Rflush and I have said many times, you guys should go travel, see the world and more importantly live somewhere completely foreign, and hopefully come to a realisation on how things actually work.

this isn't about us travelling. I do not wish to live elsewhere, I wish to live here, in Canada, where English and French are the official languages. I do not give a crap if they have "Western town" in china or anywhere else in the world. this is Canada...national language = English and French...
how is that such a hard concept to grasp?

heres an article from 2 years ago.

why Chinese only signs aren't good for canada (http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2012/01/14/why-chinese-only-signs-arent-good-for-canada/)

the world doesn't agree with you. some people do, just as some people agree with us. set up a Canadian poll asking "should signs in Canada have languages other than English or French", im not saying have no foreign languages, but to at least have English/French on the sign somewhere. just a simple yes or no poll. what do you think the outcome would be?

alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba are have a bunch of rednecks and farmers so we already know how that will turn out...we know what quebec will say...the only 2 that might actually have a decent amount of positive votes to allow it would be BC, and probably Ontario. ive been to NS, all I met there were racist fishermen. PEI and NFL im guessing would vote in favor of English/French.

for those who are saying its perfectly fine, would you mind saying what your ethnic background is? I just want to see if this is a white people hate foreign signs, whereas foreigners say they're fine, kinda thing goin on here.

me, im against having signs with no English/French (as you can clearly tell), im half Scottish half Italian. I speak English at home, took French from grade 4 - grade 10...haven't had to use it much other than when my girlfriend wants to be a prick and only try to converse with me in it, and Im currently learning Italian. upon finishing my Italian courses im planning on taking either Russian or Portuguese. ive no intentions of ever living abroad, but I guess in 20 years living here will basically be living abroad.

[ProBoostin]

When I visited Italy in the summer, everyone that lived there spoke Italian. And using Chinese people as an example as is the topic of this thread is, there are 300,000 of them there, and of the one's that I saw, spoke Italian. It's very odd hearing Italian spoke with a Chinese accent tho, signalling they are immigrants. Nevertheless, I never once saw a sign for a Chinese store with just Chinese characters. Most didnt even have Chinese on them at all.

I didn't have a good enough vocabulary to have a conversation when I went, but after a month of trying and translating words and phrases and trying to talk to relatives, I'm sure I would have been able to have a conversation within a few months. Learning a new language in not as difficult as it seems. You actaully have to try for starters and if you are constantly around people that only speak it and have one or two people that can translate for you, picking up a language isn't so bad. Out of the 100 or so family members I met, I think only 10 of them could speak English so I had to try to learn Italian to talk to the rest.

New immigrants think everything will be handed to them. Go back 50 years ago and immigrants came here with not much or nothing at all. They busted their asses off to make a little money and tried to assimilate so it would make it easier for them to provide for their family. My grandfather was a real FOB as he actaully came here on a boat. He worked on the railway and in an asbestos mine. Those conditions teach you how to survive, stick up for yourself, not take shit from others, and be street smart where none of today's immigrants would last. Now immigrants (mainly Asian) just wire money from overseas, declare low-income, live in million dollar plus houses and drive upper tier cars.

Europeans, especially Italian's, don't give a fuck if you think they are racist. There was a story that when a black female politician walked into parliament, people started making monkey noises at her. Another news story was 2 black men raped a white women and the response to the same black female politician was, "how would you like it if we raped you?" Of course they are polite and welcoming to travellers, but if you try to infringe on their culture, good luck to you.

There's no leniency there and they're not afraid to voice their opinions. If you don't like it, then leave. If not, you better learn the language and culture or more shit is coming. Everyone has it pretty good in Canada and society is pretty lenient on immigrants. It's not hard to at least make an effort to assimilate.

[snails]

this isn't about us travelling. I do not wish to live elsewhere, I wish to live here, in Canada, where English and French are the official languages. I do not give a crap if they have "Western town" in china or anywhere else in the world. this is Canada...national language = English and French...
how is that such a hard concept to grasp?



i quotes this for people to read again. its simple. these are the languages. they need to be present in PUBLIC ads or any form or signage. thats not to say other languages cant be there for the obvious majority. but to exclude English is a problem in CANADA where ENGLISH IS THE MAIN LANGUAGE.

if i decided to move to another country that is clearly my choice. i would be a guest in someone elses country and would adapt to them. i guess thats just the way my parents raised me, to be respectful and not entitled just for the sake of being entitled.

people work very hard to get into this country. so too have the mentality "i do what i want" is pretty shitty considering many others would take their place and do it in a more respectful fashion

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

you guys still think all of canada adhere's to your values.

when they landed here, they discovered richmond, which was very chinese already.

to them, that is a part of canada. and to them, they found this awesome place in a foreign land, where they could settle down and feel at home.

they didn't change jack shit. it was already like that to begin with. they only further advanced what it was... richmond DID NOT CHANGE. it only became fully more what it was destined to be.

the national language is english and french, therefore all national documents are in english and french. that's it.

this is a municipality. a smaller sub section of canada. and it's dominated by other cultures and ethnicities. the official documents here are still english.

the people are not. therefore the environment wont be.

it's as simple as that man.

you can't FORCE people to be you. the moment you start doing that, you're asking for war.

the best you can do is, just get along.

what you're clinging to is... pathetic.


you guys are like... kids in a playground.... kids playing everyday... and then suddenly some new kids come, and the dynamics of the playground change forever... and now they're crying and bitching and trying to make the new kids play THEIR way.

guess what buddy. just like you guys experienced in elementary school, you're experiencing it again. except the adult version.

and just like in elementary school, shit ain't gonna go back to what it was. there are new players. and the people make the rules of the playground. and there's more of them than you. the end.

I'm sure if the law demanded them to add english, they would. but guess what... the law doesn't. and the mayor of richmond is super cozy with the asians. and the asians have an exponentially strong influence on the city through numbers and money.

what you gonna do... pull the plug on the cash flow? tell the mayor he's an idiot?

i duno, but i dont think you guys have an argument that enough people will listen to.

playgrounds change, you can't make people change or leave... but you can leave and find a new one if you're unable to adapt. that's the way it's always been, and always will be.


I don't like downtown east side, cuz it feels skiddish and people loiter around acting all sketchy. everything looks run down and ghetto. it feels very not canadian. in fact it feels very not anything. it just feels like a fucking ghetto. I don't like it. when i'm there it feels like i'm totally not welcome. it feels like everyone is out to get me. it feels like i'm losing my culture when im around those people. I think they should make a law so those people should dress better and stop doing what they do. their culture is degrading our pure canadian image. why don't we just get rid of them? whey don't we make a law where they have to all learn proper etiquette?

ya see where i'm going with this.
you can't. cuz they won't change. and you can't force them to. the only way you deal with it, is you deal with it.

[Lomac]

you guys still think all of canada adhere's to your values.

when they landed here, they discovered richmond, which was very chinese already.

to them, that is a part of canada. and to them, they found this awesome place in a foreign land, where they could settle down and feel at home.

they didn't change jack shit. it was already like that to begin with. they only further advanced what it was... richmond DID NOT CHANGE. it only became fully more what it was destined to be.


:confused:

Richmond has only changed from being a predominantly white town to one with a majority of Asian descent in only the last 20 or so years. Considering Richmond has been around since the 1860's and that until recently it was a fishing and farming town, I wouldn't exactly say that Richmond was always like how it is now...

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah and canada in the 1600's was full of animals and natives.

and a millions of years ago it was dinosaurs.

what's your point man... things change. and within our lifetimes, you could already see the direction of richmond since the early 90's.

and your avatar is totally too wide dude. lol. by did not change, i don't mean some crazy radical change that was totally unexpected. just like people don't change. things only become fully more what they really are. they mature into their real selves. and richmond, the past 20 years was in it's "teens"... and you could FULLY see the direction it was going. just like in surrey you could FULLY see the direction it was going. it wasn't gonna become japan town or something. it's full of east indians, and anyone coulda predicted that. it's not a surprise man. that's all im saying.

[RFlush]

for those who are saying its perfectly fine, would you mind saying what your ethnic background is? I just want to see if this is a white people hate foreign signs, whereas foreigners say they're fine, kinda thing goin on here.


Right there shows how you still think an in old style way. What does ethnic background have to do with anything? 'white people hate foreign signs'? When does 'white' refer to local and to that aspect, 'non white' mean foreign?

People can come from all parts of the world and be 100% Canadian, not just 'white people'.

[Noir]

well obviously there is a divide on this subject.

there's them, and then there's everyone else including every level of the government of canada.

I don't think we really need to argue. the world agrees with us.



like Rflush and I have said many times, you guys should go travel, see the world and more importantly live somewhere completely foreign, and hopefully come to a realisation on how things actually work.


Dude, I've travelled, lived and worked abroad. That's not how things work.

Maybe the reason why you think this is how things work around the world is because... I don't know, maybe you're Chinese? and I guess this is pretty much a normal Chinese thing to do in any country they immigrate to?



FYI, in response to RFlush's query, I lived and worked for a short period of my life in Japan; and in that time, I had various foreign friends from places like Canada, USA, Australia, etc with various living situations from Working Holiday to Permanent Residence. Speaking of those other people, that is not how the world works.






It's starting to look arrogant that just because this is how you guys do it, therefore this is how the world works? :confused:

[stewie]

So we're to bend over and be your bitch cause you're the new player in the playground?
Not a chance in hell. Not sure what kind of playground you grew up on, but it sure the heck ain't the kind I did.

New players, correct. lots of those new players are the ones who are now standing up saying enough is enough, only to have the other side bitch and say it's been this way since we moved here so it should be allowed to stay, after all, it's only "advancing what was already there". Hate to break it to you, but that advancing was quite a significant change in the city.

But you actually can make the kid in the playground leave. Obviously you never got into a fight as a kid over who owns the playground, or when strange kids randomly showed up at your fort/tree houses in the woods. Luckily for me I know first hand, I grew up right beside a giant wooded area. Me and my friends had a fort that we were given to from a friends big brother since him and his friends grew to old to be playing games. Throw a few punches and the strangers would leave. If they decided to return with friends, tables turn, we take a beating and gather more of our friends to head right back there and take back what was ours.

Put the mayor infront of me, gimme 20 minutes, let me call a few friends and I'll have 100 people standing infront of the mayor wanting to voice their opinions.
Maybe it's time a new mayor stepped up to the plate. One with some balls.

The only reason everyone I know doesn't say things in public is cause the second it's brought up, "oh he's white, he can't say that! It's racist"

If were living together, we need to communicate as a whole so we can all get along, not branch off and push ourselves away from each other.

I love to voice myself though...maybe it's the Italian in me...if all the main posters in this thread would like to go for a beer and have a friendly talk I'd gladly go and you'd see that I'm not speaking out of anger with what I say(despite me calling people assholes/douche bags).
We'd have a perfect chance to take turns saying what we want to say. Basically everything in this thread would be covered before drinking half a pint..
But if not, I'm just going to stop posting here, because to me, those in favor of the signs are stubborn self entitled assholes who jump on the phrase "freedom of speech" to get their way and change an entire country into a replica of a different country. I'm using my freedom of speech just as you do, you don't agree with me and I don't agree with you. It's not going to change, you have your views and we have ours. Throwing analogys out there to compare dtes is a waste of time cause there'll always be one to say right back at the other person. So it's been fun, but ya know, with me being racist and all for taking pride in my country while living in my country is wrong, then I better stop now before I write something that will offend you guys and have you cry.
Posted via RS Mobile

[RFlush]

FYI, in response to RFlush's query, I lived and worked for a short period of my life in Japan; and in that time, I had various foreign friends from places like Canada, USA, Australia, etc with various living situations from Working Holiday to Permanent Residence. Speaking of those other people, that is not how the world works.




Ok fair enough. So just curious, after living in Japan, are you now able to read write Japanese? Speak near fluency? Assuming you had no prior education in Japanese. Also why did you move there then back to Vancouver? Genuinely curious.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Manic!]

Every time a new wave of immigrants come in we here the same B.S.

Stewie This is for you:

This sign appeared in post offices and in government buildings during World War II
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Enemy%27s_language.jpg

Harsh anti-Italian immigrant editorial cartoon, 1888
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/ItalianPopulationMascott1888.jpg

[Noir]

Ok fair enough. So just curious, after living in Japan, are you now able to read write Japanese? Speak near fluency? Assuming you had no prior education in Japanese. Also why did you move there then back to Vancouver? Genuinely curious.
Posted via RS Mobile

It's all good.

I read and write hiragana + katakana to this day and along with limited Kanji. No not fluent. Came back here because i make more money here, but it looks like the wife wants to relocate back to Japan so that may possibly change again soon.
Posted via RS Mobile

[RFlush]

Did you have any Japanese language knowledge prior or did you go to Japan with no communication skills? Also how long were you there for and did you hang out with mostly locals or other foreigners?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Mr.HappySilp]

Great way to hurt the economy and alienate voters by forcing English and French only tests for a learners. FYI you don't have to be able to read English to be able to drive.

Ever see those teach English abroad ads in the paper? Guess what they don't care if you can speak their language and they will even give you a drivers licence too without speaking their language. All this talk about they should learn English before they come to Canada is B.S. Lots of Canadians including at least one RS member are teaching abroad without being fluent in that countries main language.


If cable goes all Chinese it's because that's what the market wants and we live in a free market society. Do you think I like shows like Honey Boo Boo and the desperate housewives? No but it's there right to produce all these crappy reality shows.

Just stop. All the roads signs in Vancouver is in English. So tell me Mr.Genius
how this help a person if we allow them to take the test in Chinese and that person have no English reading skills? Do you know how dangerous that can be? What will happen if they get into a car accident? How will they communicate? You do know that not everyone who got into an accident with them will be Chinese right? You do know that not all officers who arrive on will speak Chinese right?

Guess what? My parents haven't even finish elementary school in China/Hong Kong yet they can communicate in simple English no problem. That's because they actively try to learn and be part of the community. Sure sometimes it may take them a while to get their point across but I can tell you that most people who spoke to them actually are very nice and respect them. Is actually a lot more respectful then to speak simple English then just keep saying "Me no English me Want Chinese".

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lol all im saying is, despite all your guys's crazy examples of... car accidents.. cant speak english... something else... cant speak english... dangers... what are we gonna do when ... cant speak english... all of you guys are either bringing up issues of them "destroying your culture" (not legit, cuz it's all our culture... your way of life is just yours... not all canadians).
or being hella paranoid like CiC and mentioning dangers of not being able to speak english... YEAH HELLA PARANOID LIKE CiC ok. not speaking english, so when something goes wrong... omg the worlds gonna end. wtf.


it's been happening here for over 20 years. people have just got along fine.

being able to communicate in one language hasn't been an issue for the majority of people... ever.

there really is no issue with the language.

the only issue is a few people's "feelings" toward their environment changing because of the people that are here now. that's it.

and for noir... no i'm not "chinese". i'm "taiwanese".... lol... if that makes any difference. and i was born here. mom moved here like 30 years ago, and my dad like 47 years ago....

I make fun of my mom everyday for her broken english. she has a fob accent and still cant pronounce some words properly, and her grammar stinks. i mock her every time she speaks to me (in english).

like i said it's not just chinese. I WISH there was place where there were only japanese signs and a buncha japanese people doing really japanese things. same goes for brown, and any other race.

what the fuck is wrong with you guys? do you not enjoy diversity? If there were parts of town where it was like another country, i'd be there all the time checking shit out. finding stores with unique items, and trying to barter with the people there with hand signs and my goggle phone and pointing at shit.

I WISH there were more richmonds. all over the place. but not just chinese. a hardcore italian town. a hardcore persian town, hardcore hispanic part of town.

How would that make u guys feel? if you guys went to rmd, then crossed towns and it was STILL another place with no english? but it wasn't chinese?

how would THOSE people feel? don't just take it from your perspective. you think the hardcore brown people in surrey that cant read a lick of english feel offended by richmond? you think the chinese that can't read english feel offended by vanouver? or the brown people in surrey?

what about blind people? you think they get offended about richmond or surrey? you think they fucking care?

c'mon guys... really. we've already been living like this for years and years. language is never a barrier. especially now.

the only barrier are the values you impose on yourself and everyone else.

[snails]

thats the thing though! there are those cities you are talking about, i live in Surrey, near Newton (very brown populated) heres the thing, i walk down the street and im often greeted very nicely in English even if its broken, i can go down the street and see the obvious cultured stores and still feel very welcomed, i can read the stuff im looking at cuz its still in English somewhere. and im the obvious minority in the store i go into or where ever it is. but never once felt unwelcomed or like i didnt belong. alot of my neighbors adjusted to canada and didnt expect canada to adjust to them.

but this is the thing, if all the local signs started to become more unwelcoming to me i would have an issue. and it all starts somewhere. maybe a bus ad.. and then a store window.. so on and so on until it gets the the point where it really just is another "country"

Canada is about diversity.. not about closing yourself off in a little shell for your comfort.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Ulic Qel-Droma is not about accepting new culture is that certain ethic group only wants everyone to communicate using their language follow their tradition even though they are ones who came to a new country to start a new life. If you don't follow their ways then they instantly ingore you, give you weird stares.

Like some of my friends form China when they eat they like to spit the bones out on the table while I put the bones in a bowl. Is a culture difference but that's ok cuz they accept my ways and I accept theirs. But some people ONLY want you to do it their way, in my example above those people might take my bowl away and argue till I follow their ways.

That's the key difference. You go to a different place you have to respect the culture there.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

thats the thing though! there are those cities you are talking about, i live in Surrey, near Newton (very brown populated) heres the thing, i walk down the street and im often greeted very nicely in English even if its broken, i can go down the street and see the obvious cultured stores and still feel very welcomed, i can read the stuff im looking at cuz its still in English somewhere. and im the obvious minority in the store i go into or where ever it is. but never once felt unwelcomed or like i didnt belong. alot of my neighbors adjusted to canada and didnt expect canada to adjust to them.

but this is the thing, if all the local signs started to become more unwelcoming to me i would have an issue. and it all starts somewhere. maybe a bus ad.. and then a store window.. so on and so on until it gets the the point where it really just is another "country"

Canada is about diversity.. not about closing yourself off in a little shell for your comfort.
they aren't closing themselves off. there's just enough of them that that's the way it rolled out man.

ok imagine this. india booms for whatever reason. and there's a HUGE influx of indians to surrey. i'm pretty sure surrey is gonna become a brown version of richmond. cuz of the huge influx, there's no need for them to have to gain new linguistic skills to survive. and you cant MAKE people do it either.

u guys understand? you guys are fighting the very essence of how sociology and nature work.

it just happened that there was a HUGE influx of chinese. what the fuck can you do about it? they already got rid of that law that allows them to buy their way in. what more now do you guys want?


here's a theoretical question.

if you were able to download chinese into your brains in a snap of a finger and suddenly able to understand and read chinese and not "feel left out". would you guys do it? or would you STILL be insistent on them changing the signs?

what if the chinese have already downloaded english... but they still choose to have chinese only signs? they just simply choose to live that lifestyle. they prefer that.

now the ball is in your court. is it really cuz you don't understand it, or cuz it's another language.

like someone else mentioned before... what if there was a hardcore computer programmer part of town and everything was in zero's and one's.... would you guys feel the same way?

I totally don't know what you guys are talking about. i just walked to work in richmond, and i held open a door for a mainlander and he said SAN QUE. good enough for me. if he didnt say anything i wouldnt care.

i walk down no3 road. there's plenty of non FOB feeling people. like... it doesn't feel like the chinese are TAKING over and TAKING away your shit.

like how culturalphobic are you guys? to the point where your perspective is so skewed that a few incidents dictate the whole city? to the point where you ONLY perceive those incidents. your eyes and minds are fixated to look for those FOBS that spit on the ground and dont say thank you. so fixated that you miss the fact that that's just your own perspective. and there are MANY more that don't do it.

hell i spit on the ground. not cuz i'm a mainlander, cuz i'm rude. and i know it.

the shit you guys talk about are isolated incidents that don't happen that much.

it's like me walking down downtown east side. despite my previous example of DTE i actually don't care about it and have no fear walking down that part of town alone at 3am at night. yes i've been pestered there a few times. and i realise that probably happens EVERYDAY. but you know what, that's just that part of town.

all i know is, in the 80's when i went to rmd, the best thing they had was lansdowne mall. and now when i look out my office window i see a bustling city that has boomed and has risen in economic rank without sacrificing the well being of the people.

No.3 and westminster is busy as fuck. GOOD. there's people DOING SHIT. the city is ALIVE. crawling with business and life.

what more do you want?

Diversity... this is diversity at its best. you wanna be surrounded by one way, live in one part of town, you wanna act another way? you live in another part of town. your definition of diversity is not diversity. you just want everyone to be one thing first.

Ulic Qel-Droma is not about accepting new culture is that certain ethic group only wants everyone to communicate using their language follow their tradition even though they are ones who came to a new country to start a new life. If you don't follow their ways then they instantly ingore you, give you weird stares.

Like some of my friends form China when they eat they like to spit the bones out on the table while I put the bones in a bowl. Is a culture difference but that's ok cuz they accept my ways and I accept theirs. But some people ONLY want you to do it their way, in my example above those people might take my bowl away and argue till I follow their ways.

That's the key difference. You go to a different place you have to respect the culture there.

no man. you don't understand.
cultures are made up of the people that make it. and there's more of them now. so they influence the culture and the culture changes.

what culture are you talking about? white western mannerisms? that's your definition of canadian culture?

my definition of canadian culture is, we pay lots of tax and have pretty good healthcare, and the canadian flag.
that's it. nothing else matters. everything else is up to the individual or group of people they hang with. everything else can be changed, by the vote or population of the people. NOTHING else is permanent and nothing else really matters. it can all be changed. even our healthcare and flag itself. if enough people deem it to be, then IT IS. it's called a democratic society.

for the italian example in italy being racist and very "pro" their own culture. yeah they were also allied with the fucking nazis ok. that mentality and culture is still lingering there. we really wanna bring that up?

as for your bone spitting... you do know that when i go to higher end restaurants in china, especially in bigger cities like SH, western culture has spread there and it's considered rude to do all those "back water countrymen farmer" shit. you don't see the lower class yelling at the upper class telling them that they're taking away chinese culture. that people use forks and knives and don't spit their shit on the table anymore. you know why? cuz there's enough of them following the western mannerisms there that it's accepted in that part of town.

it's okay if there's a tiny ass community of FOB chinese doing their own thing right? but it's not okay when suddenly there's enough of them to form a huge town/city? wtf.

your definition of canadian culture is egocentric.

canadian culture is made up of whoever lives here. the people dictate it.

the whole concept of culture puts up borders and walls and makes people egocentric.

you guys should view the world as the world. and that any culture will appear anywhere. and you just have to accept it. because it's just part of our world.

like i said before... some of you guys dont wanna travel or move. guess what. the world is growing smaller and smaller every second because of technology. the world will COME TO YOU. there will be no cultural borders. any developed country, will eventually become a mix of every culture. there will be nothing that dictates who does what. everyone will be anything they want. and you just have to learn to navigate that in the new world.

you guys are gonna be those old grumpy 80 year olds... "back in my day we respected the culture"... and the kids will just roll their eyes at you, cuz they know that's the past. there will be no more borders. cultures will be mixed everywhere you go. and different cultures have different values. so you just have to accept it.


i'm 100% canadian. i hold no other passports or citizenships.
I don't like hockey. I don't participate in 90% of the shit you guys consider canadian. yes, i eat with a fork and knife AND chopsticks. when i see someone horking a huge loogie and spit it in the middle of the road i shake my head. only to be a hypocrite go and hork a loogie and spit it in the grass or gutter. I don't give a fuck about canada day or any other national day of any other country.
The only canadian pride i have is that i was born here. that's it. However canada changes and turns out to be, i accept it. if it's over run with indians. so be it. if its over run with chinese. so be it. i won't ENFORCE my values onto others in public. i have my own apartment i can do wahtever i want inside. i have a car and i can DRIVE TO OTHER PARTS OF TOWN that suit my mood.

I enjoy canada cuz i can do whatever the fuck i want. and no ones gonna tell me what to do. as long as i'm not physically hurting someone. it's okay.

I'm sure that's what you guys enjoy too. as for what happens in the public... that's SHARED territory. what part of that do you guys NOT understand?

[Manic!]

Ulic Qel-Droma is not about accepting new culture is that certain ethic group only wants everyone to communicate using their language follow their tradition even though they are ones who came to a new country to start a new life. If you don't follow their ways then they instantly ingore you, give you weird stares.

Like some of my friends form China when they eat they like to spit the bones out on the table while I put the bones in a bowl. Is a culture difference but that's ok cuz they accept my ways and I accept theirs. But some people ONLY want you to do it their way, in my example above those people might take my bowl away and argue till I follow their ways.

That's the key difference. You go to a different place you have to respect the culture there.

So is St Patrick's day a Canadian tradition or something brought over by Irish immigrants.

[snails]

So is St Patrick's day a Canadian tradition or something brought over by Irish immigrants.

man you are grasping.

people in this thread arnt against any race, religion, language or holiday


we are saying that the sign SHOULD have some English on it.

have the sign in what ever Chinese dialect, but also have it translated in English. simple.

stop acting like the Chinese own Richmond. Canadians do. all, not just 1 ethnicity so in 1 way or another it should be welcoming to the rest of the population.

[Mr.HappySilp]

So is St Patrick's day a Canadian tradition or something brought over by Irish immigrants.

Notice how St Patrick's day isn't a national holiday or a day off? Or Chinese New Year? No they are not recognize as national holiday but since Canada is a multi culture country we have people celebrating it as a way to get to know the culture more.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

you guys forget all the shit that happens in the usa.

i already posted that hick hating on mexicans.

you guys remember the 1992 riots in LA?

you know what that was right? it was black people, hating on koreans in their part of town.

Armed Korean Merchants - LA Riots - YouTube

yeah how well did that workout? and im sure the koreans there have english on their signs.

what you guys don't get is even if they put english on their signs. the more extremist type that just hate asians cuz they're not white will appear. the very essence of this is centered around being cultural phobic.

first english signs. then what? english speaking only. then what?

i see fairly often walking around no 3. some old bitter white guy muttering racist shit under his breath when he seems chinese people do chinese things.

these people exist.

you might not be one of them. but the very essence of your argument is still the same phobia.

you guys are fucked man. get over it. it's just a language. you have a choice of learning it too, like any other person on this planet.
if you choose to not learn it... then who cares.

like mentioned before... when u get on a bus and everyone is speaking non-english, do you feel offended? DO YOU?
ANSWER that question.

[Mr.HappySilp]

you guys forget all the shit that happens in the usa.

i already posted that hick hating on mexicans.

you guys remember the 1992 riots in LA?

you know what that was right? it was black people, hating on koreans in their part of town.

Armed Korean Merchants - LA Riots - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4_aRGvcwA)

yeah how well did that workout? and im sure the koreans there have english on their signs.

what you guys don't get is even if they put english on their signs. the more extremist type that just hate asians cuz they're not white will appear. the very essence of this is centered around being cultural phobic.

first english signs. then what? english speaking only. then what?

i see fairly often walking around no 3. some old bitter white guy muttering racist shit under his breath when he seems chinese people do chinese things.

these people exist.

you might not be one of them. but the very essence of your argument is still the same phobia.

you guys are fucked man. get over it. it's just a language. you have a choice of learning it too, like any other person on this planet.
if you choose to not learn it... then who cares.

like mentioned before... when u get on a bus and everyone is speaking non-english, do you feel offended? DO YOU?
ANSWER that question.

According to your logic why DON'T THESE PEOPLE LEARN ENGLISH. They have a choice too like any other person on this planet.

To answer your question no I don't because I have my headphone on and listen to my own tune anyways.

[snails]

you guys forget all the shit that happens in the usa.

i already posted that hick hating on mexicans.

you guys remember the 1992 riots in LA?

you know what that was right? it was black people, hating on koreans in their part of town.

Armed Korean Merchants - LA Riots - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc4_aRGvcwA)

yeah how well did that workout? and im sure the koreans there have english on their signs.

what you guys don't get is even if they put english on their signs. the more extremist type that just hate asians cuz they're not white will appear. the very essence of this is centered around being cultural phobic.

first english signs. then what? english speaking only. then what?

i see fairly often walking around no 3. some old bitter white guy muttering racist shit under his breath when he seems chinese people do chinese things.

these people exist.

you might not be one of them. but the very essence of your argument is still the same phobia.

you guys are fucked man. get over it. it's just a language. you have a choice of learning it too, like any other person on this planet.
if you choose to not learn it... then who cares.

like mentioned before... when u get on a bus and everyone is speaking non-english, do you feel offended? DO YOU?
ANSWER that question.


:suspicious:

who said this had to be "English only signs" or they have to all learn to become fluent in English the day they land.

and that old bitter white guy is just as bad cuz hes not accepting the multiculturalism of Canada.

having "CHINESE ONLY SIGNS" are just as bad as that old bitter white guy muttering shit. its a lack of respect for those around you.

now stop avoiding what is being said, those who are replying in the thread are off in their own little world completely avoiding why this is a debate in the first place.

im replying to what im reading. you are replying to what you are interpreting, clearly not reading most of the posts

people in this thread arnt against any race, religion, language or holiday


we are saying that the sign SHOULD have some English on it.

have the sign in what ever Chinese dialect, but also have it translated in English. simple.

stop acting like the Chinese own Richmond. Canadians do. all, not just 1 ethnicity so in 1 way or another it should be welcoming to the rest of the population.

[Tone Loc]

TBH, I WOULD agree with the "pro-Chinese-language" side IF my personal experiences did not highlight a distinct discrimination from Chinese people towards Asians who do not speak Chinese.

Case in point, I am Filipino but very frequently get mistaken for Chinese. Likely because I am not under 5 feet tall and I have very pale skin as well as "Chinese features" as my GF's dad likes to say. Whenever I eat in Richmond (rarely, now) and order in English because I don't speak Chinese, I always get dirty looks and markedly poor(er) service from the Chinese waiters/waitresses. Whereas when my GF orders in Chinese, literally right across from me, she always a gets much better quality of service. She has even commented on it a few times but nothing really changed. I literally feel embarrassed as fuck for not being able to speak Chinese so I get my GF to order for me. Well Tea and Alleluia are notorious for this type of stuff and have put a bad taste in my mouth, no pun intended, about going to Asian places in Richmond.

I have no problem with signs being in Chinese, my GF speaks/reads it perfectly so I am not worried about "translation", but there's something definitely wrong when I use an "official" language such as English in Canada and get looked down upon and discriminated against for using it. I work in customer service, and when people only speak some random language I always tried my best to find them someone who could communicate with them so that they could get the help they needed, and I definitely did not look at them like they were dirt for not speaking English. Unfortunately when it is the other way around for me I RARELY got that kind of treatment

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

According to your logic why DON'T THESE PEOPLE LEARN ENGLISH. They have a choice too like any other person on this planet.

To answer your question no I don't because I have my headphone on and listen to my own tune anyways.

they can, and like you they choose not to.

but they have a way of operating without the need to learn english.

and you have a way of operating without learning chinese.

they don't bother you. so why are you bothering them?

they're not imposing anything on you? so why are you imposing anything on them?

yeah so you don't get offended cuz you wear earphones. what if you weren't? would you get offended?

the point being, if u don't get offended, then the chinese signage is the same shit. you shouldn't get offended.

:suspicious:

who said this had to be "English only signs" or they have to all learn to become fluent in English the day they land.

and that old bitter white guy is just as bad cuz hes not accepting the multiculturalism of Canada.

having "CHINESE ONLY SIGNS" are just as bad as that old bitter white guy muttering shit. its a lack of respect for those around you.

now stop avoiding what is being said, those who are replying in the thread are off in their own little world completely avoiding why this is a debate in the first place.

im replying to what im reading. you are replying to what you are interpreting, clearly not reading most of the posts

and youre not addressing other peoples points.

what if i own a bookstore that sold ONLY chinese books? why would my business sign have to include ANY english? anyone that shopped in that store would be interested in reading chinese or already know how.

you PERCEIVE it as disrespect only because of your egocentric personality.

it's NOT DISRESPECT.

disrespect is me swearing at you and telling you to fuck off.

it's a fucking SIGN. stop being such a pussy and feeling like it's an ATTACK on you.

ITS NOT.

respect is RESPECTING others ways and letting them BE. THATS RESPECT.

your definition of respect is IMPOSING some way on people so YOU FEEL better.


and lastly, you guys FORGET that these signs and ads are PRIVATELY OWNED OPERATED BUSINESSES. it ain't some public service for everyone. it's PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATE. they can operate their business HOWEVER they like as long as it obeys the laws.
GOT IT?

that's the MOST important thing here. PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATELY FUNDED. PRIVATELY OPERATED.

this isn't about some public service, or publicly funded shit. if it were, then you guys would be right, but it's not.

TBH, I WOULD agree with the "pro-Chinese-language" side IF my personal experiences did not highlight a distinct discrimination from Chinese people towards Asians who do not speak Chinese.

Case in point, I am Filipino but very frequently get mistaken for Chinese. Likely because I am not under 5 feet tall and I have very pale skin as well as "Chinese features" as my GF's dad likes to say. Whenever I eat in Richmond (rarely, now) and order in English because I don't speak Chinese, I always get dirty looks and markedly poor(er) service from the Chinese waiters/waitresses. I've also had situations where other Chinese people (just for speaking Chinese) get sat down first, etc etc. Well Tea and Alleluia are notorious for this type of stuff and have put a bad taste in my mouth, no pun intended, about going to Asian places in Richmond.

I have no problem with signs being in Chinese, my GF speaks/reads it perfectly so I am not worried about "translation", but there's something definitely wrong when I use an "official" language such as English in Canada and get looked down upon and discriminated against for using it. I work in customer service, and when people only speak some random language I always tried my best to find them someone who could communicate with them so that they could get the help they needed, and I definitely did not look at them like they were dirt for not speaking English. Unfortunately when it is the other way around for me I RARELY got that kind of treatment


have you ever thought maybe that's just your personality and how you PERCEIVE things?

i eat at all those places you mentioned. and i ALWAYS order in english.

don't use subjective arguments please

"I don't like the way he looked at me"
"uhhh i didn't see him looking at you any particular way".

we all know people like that. perceiving everything as rude and an attack on them. give me a break. get over yourselves man.
what you saw, was unique to you.

[snails]

and youre not addressing other peoples points.

what if i own a bookstore that sold ONLY chinese books? why would my business sign have to include ANY english? anyone that shopped in that store would be interested in reading chinese or already know how.

you PERCEIVE it as disrespect only because of your egocentric personality.

it's NOT DISRESPECT.

disrespect is me swearing at you and telling you to fuck off.

it's a fucking SIGN. stop being such a pussy and feeling like it's an ATTACK on you.

ITS NOT.

respect is RESPECTING others ways and letting them BE. THATS RESPECT.

your definition of respect is IMPOSING some way on people so YOU FEEL better.


and lastly, you guys FORGET that these signs and ads are PRIVATELY OWNED OPERATED BUSINESSES. it ain't some public service for everyone. it's PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATE. they can operate their business HOWEVER they like as long as it obeys the laws.
GOT IT?

that's the MOST important thing here. PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATELY FUNDED. PRIVATELY OPERATED.

this isn't about some public service, or publicly funded shit. if it were, then you guys would be right, but it's not.



i thought i was doing a pretty good job, even when i was told white people steal land in the 1800's.. like it was my fault haha

and if that book store only sold chinese books he should have i sign up that says "chinese book store" so me (the public) knows if i wanna get a "chinese book" to go in there. dont assume. if hes really that unconformable with the english language he might be in the wrong country

and this has nothing to do with me being a "pussy" like i stated before. i live no where close to richmond, i have no reason to venture into richmond so honestly aside me saying that people of ALL background should acknowledge our national language its really not something that threatens me.

and if you really wanna go to the PRIVATELY OWNED ROUTE.. would it be silly of me to put ads up with my money saying "fuck the chinese" i mean.. its my money, my ad, my opinion for this example.. freedom of speech and if the chinese dont like it they dont have to read it.. its a pretty shitty thing and would be a shame if it was something that caught on and grew.. until a whole city was full of it and it was unwelcoming.. but hey. its my money and my ad space right?

that was a very far fetched example but its no different if your mentality is "they can do what they want"

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

no actually that would be considered a hate crime. lol.

you can't openly hate on any race or culture or lifestyle. c'mon you should know that.

u can't tell people how to micromanage their businesses man. this isn't some communist state. business and trade is free.

you're free to do business and trade with whoever you want. that's the basis of capitalism.

well you can, but it won't go well.

as for your concern of spreading and feeling unwelcomed.... like i have said. that's your own values that you have imposed on yourself.
you make yourself feel unwelcomed.

there are PLENTY of other people that can't read chinese that aren't chinese, that feel absolutely fine.

because they realise not everything is about themselves.

you guys make it seem like if you're white and u walk into richmond, people hiss at you and chase you out of town. it's not even anything like that.

the feeling you guys FEEL... are super subjective and the majority of people don't feel that way.

u guys understand that right? your subjective egocentric feelings and values are just that... a minority and self imposed.

you guys are like... mini haters and you don't even realise it. you literally lack the ability to perceive how ridiculous you guys sound.

basis of your argument is feeling unwelcomed. FEELING UNWELCOMED.
that's super subjective and this isn't even some theoretical idealistic argument. THERE'S A REALITY TO THIS. and i see the result is... you're wrong. the laws disagree. society disagrees because they have let it happen and no one really bitches about it. they accept it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

they can, and like you they choose not to.

but they have a way of operating without the need to learn english.

and you have a way of operating without learning chinese.

they don't bother you. so why are you bothering them?

they're not imposing anything on you? so why are you imposing anything on them?

yeah so you don't get offended cuz you wear earphones. what if you weren't? would you get offended?


No even without headphones I won't get offended because they are talking to their friends not me. So why would I care?

Again the official language is in English or French you can speak other language but don't complain or give them wired stares when people don't speak YOUR language. From the sound of your tone you feel is it 100% ok for anyone to move to a new country and not give a fuck about that country official language, their history, their culture etc etc.... like you could live in some giant bubble and simply live the way you did before you move. What's the point of moving then lol. The whole point of multiculturalism is so everyone can learn and accept.

Is different when it is an ad strictly trying to help people with gamble addictions so that means anyone with gamble addictions should be able to get the meaning of the ad. Which means it should be written in the official language which is either English or French. Remember the ad is funded by "A public advertisement from a government-funded charity" not some private company or from private sector.

[snails]

no actually that would be considered a hate crime. lol.

you can't openly hate on any race or culture or lifestyle. c'mon you should know that.

u can't tell people how to micromanage their businesses man. this isn't some communist state. business and trade is free.

you're free to do business and trade with whoever you want. that's the basis of capitalism.

well you can, but it won't go well.

as for your concern of spreading and feeling unwelcomed.... like i have said. that's your own values that you have imposed on yourself.
you make yourself feel unwelcomed.

there are PLENTY of other people that can't read chinese that aren't chinese, that feel absolutely fine.

because they realise not everything is about themselves.

you guys make it seem like if you're white and u walk into richmond, people hiss at you and chase you out of town. it's not even anything like that.

the feeling you guys FEEL... are super subjective and the majority of people don't feel that way.

u guys understand that right? your subjective egocentric feelings and values are just that... a minority and self imposed.

who is to say that chinese or any other race only willing to deal among themselves is any less hate ? its not as obvious but its just as un accepting.

and the problem is much larger than the solution. solution is "make it equal for all" the problem is that this is segregating communities..

i was in SaveOn the other day and alot of the signs inside has english/ mandarin (i assume) and i didnt have a problem with it for even a second, hell i could still read, and the majority population being Chinese were doing just fine.. everyone is happy. best of both worlds.

see my point? this is not me being racist. this is me shooting for more equality.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

No even without headphones I won't get offended because they are talking to their friends not me. So why would I care?

EXACTLY.

do you realise how silly you sound now?

those signs are exactly like vocal language. they're not talking to you. so why should you care?!

ITS THE EXACT SAME THING DUDE.


Again the official language is in English or French you can speak other language but don't complain or give them wired stares when people don't speak YOUR language. From the sound of your tone you feel is it 100% ok for anyone to move to a new country and not give a fuck about that country official language, their history, their culture etc etc.... like you could live in some giant bubble and simply live the way you did before you move. What's the point of moving then lol. The whole point of multiculturalism is so everyone can learn and accept.

the official language in official documents buddy.

official language does not mean its enforced down to every level of existence in the country.

if means if you go to any GOVERNMENT establishment, english or french will be offered. any ESSENTIAL SERVICES...will be provided in english or french.
our LAWS will be written in english or french. our politics and other OFFICIAL things will be in english or french.

it doesn't mean people have to speak it. understand that?

yeah it is okay to move to any country and not give a fuck about their ways. as long as you obey the law and pay your taxes... you are an okay citizen. that's all that matters. anything else above that is up to your own personal values.

why bother to move to another country? I don't know. because they want to? and that's a good enough reason.

it might not be a good enough reason to YOU. but that's your own self imposed values. to the eyes of the law and majority of other people, it's okay. cuz everyone has their own values and everyone follows their own way of life.

multiculturalism is about everyone learning to accept... not about forcing anyone to do things in any ONE way.

multi culturalism means, there's group A B C D E F G H I etc... they all do things very differently. and they all live in the same place.

SO THEY LEARN TO DEAL WITH IT, and not fuck with each other. you enter one zone, you expect one behaviour, you enter another zone, you expect another behaviour.

NOT, everyone HAS to have some standard.


Is different when it is an ad strictly trying to help people with gamble addictions so that means anyone with gamble addictions should be able to get the meaning of the ad. Which means it should be written in the official language which is either English or French. Remember the ad is funded by "A public advertisement from a government-funded charity" not some private company or from private sector.

so how do you know how that particular department is run? maybe that person is in the chinese department. cuz you know there's enough chinese people that it's profitable running a chinese only department. and the department got enough money to fund their own ads to help their own department.

ever thought of that?

and the english speaking department has their own body of regulations that advertise to english speakers and deal with english speakers.


who is to say that chinese or any other race only willing to deal among themselves is any less hate ? its not as obvious but its just as un accepting.

and the problem is much larger than the solution. solution is "make it equal for all" the problem is that this is segregating communities..

i was in SaveOn the other day and alot of the signs inside has english/ mandarin (i assume) and i didnt have a problem with it for even a second, hell i could still read, and the majority population being Chinese were doing just fine.. everyone is happy. best of both worlds.

see my point? this is not me being racist. this is me shooting for more equality.

ok say you get your signage rules. half english half chinese or whatever.

you think people will stop complaining about being feeling unwelcomed in richmond?
they'll start bitching about how chinese people act (sorry not start... they already have started to bitch about it).

it's not just about the signage. it's about the attitude towards other cultures. they don't like them. period.

your signage thing is a small factor of this whole problem.

the problem is deep rooted in the nonacceptance of other cultures in "MY" nation.

if you guys get your english sign, the problem will be far from over. you understand me?

[snails]

ok say you get your signage rules. half english half chinese or whatever.

you think people will stop complaining about being feeling unwelcomed in richmond?
they'll start bitching about how chinese people act (sorry not start... they already are).

it's not just about the signage. it's about the attitude towards other cultures. they don't like them. period.

your signage thing is a small factor of this whole problem.

the problem is deep rooted in the nonacceptance of other cultures in "MY" nation.

if you guys get your english sign, the problem will be far from over. you understand me?

have i complained about anything other than making the city more welcoming? this thread is about an all chinese sign creating a language debate.. its not about racist dicks who cant handle someone elses culture.. so as long as we are staying on topic.. yes i do think that is enough to fix the problem. of course there will always be the racists that believe they should leave the country. but thats not what this thread is about

good chat

<3 RS

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

no man.

read the whole thread.

there's PLENTY of people bringing up examples of how "rude" chinese people are or... how they act. spitting or saying thankyou or whatever.

"my parents brought me up to have manners"
"i was brought up to do this that blah blah"
"theyre all rich enough they can afford it"
"why do they even bother moving here"

the very fact that they BRING these issues up means there's a deeper rooted problem.

yeah maybe YOU yourself only care about the english part. but its VERY OBVIOUS that not everyone just cares about that.

they feel unwelcome not just cuz of the signage, but because of the mainland culture.

EVERY TIME this topic comes up... the same shit that doesn't have to do with signage gets said against the mainlanders. they start picking the mainlanders based on their way of life and values. not because of the signs.

you can agree on that no? it's obvious.



ignoring all that, we have a prime example right here.

me and the people that think like me. vs you guys.

in real life we could also debate about this. but at the end of the day what happens? we just go about our own business. we do things our own way and as long as i'm not FORCING you to do it my way, it's all good. RIGHT?

so why do you guys care so much about how someone else does their business? like really... who cares man...


edit: i'm not hating on any of you guys or like ... developing some subjective feeling where i now associate your usernames with "stupidity". cuz you guys have been around along time and i SEE where you guys are coming from. i'm just trying to get you guys to see the other side.
cuz if you only understand one side, of course everything makes sense and you feel right. but when you TRULY see both sides... you realise there can't be one right way and people just have to accept the way things are. it's not like this is some lawless land where people are getting hurt everyday and order needs to be restored... this is a super normal civil city.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

like really, if they allowed english signs, then what? ppl gonna start complaining about size. like oh the english is too small. make it equal size. you KNOW some ppl are gonna raise that issue. probably the same people too.

and then what? business owners are gonna be like fuck, i have zero non-chinese customers, i have to maintain a sign that only is 50% effective, and reduced 50% visibility cuz of the size. what then?

this is capitalism man. as long as the businesses are paying taxes and as long as they are run the way they want within legal limits and the owners are happy and paying their taxes... who cares... they're PAYING TAXES.

theyre generating money the best way they know how, and paying money to the government so that you can have your healthcare, and your busses and skytrains and all that other stuff that's in ENGLISH.

like... c'mon man. its not like they're just TAKING shit. they PAY and CONTRIBUTE through monetary means. and that's good enough to 99% of the people out there.

[Manic!]

have i complained about anything other than making the city more welcoming?

<3 RS

More welcoming to who?

[snails]

More welcoming to who?

man


:fulloffuck:

i cant even tell if you are serious anymore. i think why you are opposing this thread is because you cant read English or you clearly havnt been following

i think every angle of this thread has been covered now.

:pokerface:

see you guys in other threads

[GLOW]

More welcoming to who?

zionist snails

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

all i gotta say is, i'm "only" 30, and i've had trouble learning languages my whole life. i'm like langauge retarded. i'm just unable to learn and have a new language STICK in my brain.

what makes you think someone else that might be less educated, less intelligent, and maybe immigrated here when they're 40? or 50? has the ability to fully adopt a new language? but they're willing to work and pay taxes.

language isn't easy. just like math isn't easy. to some people, language is as hard if not harder than math.

you CANT expect those people to just fucking learn it man.

perhaps all those dirty looks you got are subjective to their side too. imagine someone that's tried very hard their whole life to learn english, and they just cant fucking learn it.

you speak to them in english and they give u a disguisted face. maybe that face isnt for you. maybe they're frustrated at the fact that they cant speak english and that they've tried so hard. and they're so frustrated they cant keep it in but they express it on their faces.

is that so hard to imagine?

what if a store owner has super shitty english and cant learn it? and having english signs attracts too many english speakers that makes their daily life in business owning too frustrating... why not just let them run it the way they wanna run it?

they can't learn a new language... what the fuck do you want them to do? go back to their own countries?

i'm already beyond the age of learning new languages. i'm a heavy right brain dominated person. linear systematic shit like linguistics is a very left brain attribute. just cuz you think it's easy doesn't mean it is easy for other people.

there are 50% of people who are right brain dominated, and language and mathematics and other linear systematic ways of classification are extremely hard.

and there people that are right brained. who are way better than you left brained people at spatial memory, the arts, and other shit you guys could never do even if you tried.

you guys have to encompass ALL that shit man. people are diverse. language isn't just something u pickup and learn. some people could spend DECADES and never even come close to even being capable of utilizing it the way you want them to.

and when you realise not everyone can adapt the way you WANT the to adapt.. the best you can do is you let them do things their way... as long as they follow the law, that's good enough man.

[snails]

all i gotta say is, i'm "only" 30, and i've had trouble learning languages my whole life. i'm like langauge retarded. i'm just unable to learn and have a new language STICK in my brain.

what makes you think someone else that might be less educated, less intelligent, and maybe immigrated here when they're 40? or 50? has the ability to fully adopt a new language?

language isn't easy. just like math isn't easy. to some people, language is as hard if not harder than math.

you CANT expect those people to just fucking learn it man.

perhaps all those dirty looks you got are subjective to their side too. imagine someone that's tried very hard their whole life to learn english, and they just cant fucking learn it.

you speak to them in english and they give u a disguisted face. maybe that face isnt for you. maybe they're frustrated at the fact that they cant speak english and that they've tried so hard. and they're so frustrated they cant keep it in but they express it on their faces.

is that so hard to imagine?

what if a store owner has super shitty english and cant learn it? and having english signs attracts too many english speakers that makes their daily life in business owning too frustrating... why not just let them run it the way they wanna run it?

they can't learn a new language... what the fuck do you want them to do? go back to their own countries?

i'm already beyond the age of learning new languages. i'm a heavy right brain dominated person. linear systematic shit like linguistics is a very left brain attribute. just cuz you think it's easy doesn't mean it is easy for other people.

you guys have to encompass ALL shit man.

and when you realise not everyone can adapt the way you WANT the to adapt.. the best you can do is you let them do things their way... as long as they follow the law, that's good enough man.

i agree with everything u said.. but why cant there be English in the ad somewhere ? by all means keep the other language to make it easier.. but what about the English for everyone else that dosnt have trouble speaking it

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

that leads to problems...
like what the english has to encompass..

if i were a store owner that couldnt speak english or had really crappy english...

what do u think would happen... they'd just throw up random words

that place beside memory express... big crazy. i still have no idea what they sell. wtf is big crazy?

there's a place i drove by... called super bored.

these signs... in english would not help... sure you can read them... but that it. it doesn't... help!

and if someone cant figure out what to write? what if they just start writing ABC or "store" or "happy cool!". you kinda see what i mean?

so what... now u have to have someone hired to help them? or they have to hire someone to help them?

it opens another can of worms...

if you look at it logically, from a business perspective... it's simply put... they have no need to put the effort in because they feel it would not benefit their business...

it's just as simple as that... it doesnt matter if you THINK it will benefit their business... THEY dont feel it and THEY own it and run it... what can you do?

you know what i mean?

I walk by chinese medicine shops sometimes and i honestly don't know what 80% of the shit they're selling in there is... and im sure unless you were some herbalist, you wouldn't either. and they probably don't even know what it's called in english... i sure as hell don't. and even if you told me the english name... i wouldn't know what it was.

it's just... it adds another layer of complexity on top of a problem that cant be solved already. of course this layer of complexity is pressured on the business owners side, which the consumer will not feel at all.

so us normal consumers walking around everyday... its easy to point fingers and tell them to change this for US. but you're not thinking about them... they're the ones that have to run it and maintain it. and they just... they just think its a headache or whatever reason. even if they just simply "dont want to" and yes that is assholish, but who cares... its their business.. ill take my money somewhere else.

i mean u don't get angry at someone who doesn't open the door for you or say thank you (even if they're not chinese).... yeah they're assholes or rude or... whatever you want to perceive, but they're allowed to... its their life. just let them be. move on and do what you gotta do.

edit: ok yes that ad in THIS topic... COULD have some english in it other than her name. like "addiction problems for chinese" or whatever.
but don't u see how some other people would just fuckign get angry cuz "oh its for chinese only" or "why the fuck they write it in english if its only for chinese?"

no matter what people will be pissed and twist it to their liking and their own values. this is like the best balance there is. if people just leave it be... then it will be ok. just ... accept and carry on man.

keep calm, carry on. forget it.. its not a big deal man.

[Manic!]

i agree with everything u said.. but why cant there be English in the ad somewhere ? by all means keep the other language to make it easier.. but what about the English for everyone else that dosnt have trouble speaking it

So If I want to hire someone to translate Mandarin into English why would I put any English in the ad. It would just be a waste of my time and yours.

[stewie]

So If I want to hire someone to translate Mandarin into English why would I put any English in the ad. It would just be a waste of my time and yours.

I said I was done, but I just wanted to say this.

perhaps you have a friend who's in dire need of a job, and you know that hes fluent and would be more than willing to take the job.

edit: ok yes that ad in THIS topic... COULD have some english in it other than her name. like "addiction problems for chinese" or whatever.
but don't u see how some other people would just fuckign get angry cuz "oh its for chinese only" or "why the fuck they write it in english if its only for chinese?"

remove 1 word...."Chinese", and voila...its now a sign for gambling addiction that just happens to be in Chinese(hopefully with some English at the bottom saying gambling addiction call 604-555-5555), its not singling out brown/white/European people. the sign is in Chinese that's all, as long as it has English or French, I don't feel excluded or unwelcomed. it may be directed at a specific target, but that one word makes me feel excluded from not being able to get help if I needed it. if a white person can read the sign and he sees it saying "gambling addiction for Chinese", don't you think that's a bit wrong? can he call the lady up and show up in her office and get help with him being white? can I show up looking for help with me not being able to speak a lick of Chinese?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

you do know the organization that put up the ad is S.U.C.C.E.S.S.

"S.U.C.C.E.S.S., our primary service delivery entity, was founded in 1973 and incorporated in 1974 as a non-profit charitable organization. Initially founded to assist new Canadians of Chinese descent to overcome language and cultural barriers."

if you called the number or showed up, they'd tell you to call another number or direct you to somewhere else. they aren't here to serve you. their business is oriented around chinese immigrants that can't communicate in english. their resources are specialized to cater to chinese speakers that don't know english.

you understand that right? you're not their target. they're here to help chinese FOBs.

I'm sure if you were a white guy born and raised in china, and you immigrated here and you could read chinese and called that number, they'd help you out due to your language barrier. but you're not.

[Xu.Vi]

remove 1 word...."Chinese", and voila...its now a sign for gambling addiction that just happens to be in Chinese(hopefully with some English at the bottom saying gambling addiction call 604-555-5555), its not singling out brown/white/European people. the sign is in Chinese that's all, as long as it has English or French, I don't feel excluded or unwelcomed. it may be directed at a specific target, but that one word makes me feel excluded from not being able to get help if I needed it. if a white person can read the sign and he sees it saying "gambling addiction for Chinese", don't you think that's a bit wrong? can he call the lady up and show up in her office and get help with him being white? can I show up looking for help with me not being able to speak a lick of Chinese?

Just in a sense of acquiring help, I don't recall any other language than English being on the notice along the lines of "know your limit, play within it" with hotlines and programs for addiction gambling upon entering the casino nor do I see any other languages other than English on PlayNow/lottery tickets/scratch cards. In addition, addiction gambling is quite a prominent issue among the Chinese community. So, with the lack of reach the Chinese are getting, this ad seems quite reasonably fair.

Now, you may suggest them to learn English etcetcetc, but what the point if your offspring is more than likely going to/already know English? (I can see that in 1-2 generations from now, that majority of people in Richmond won't understand Chinese as much anyway because of this)

[minoru_tanaka]

If anything you people should be upset that it's racist against Chinese people stereotyping them as problem gamblers

[stewie]

Just in a sense of acquiring help, I don't recall any other language than English being on the notice along the lines of "know your limit, play within it" with hotlines and programs for addiction gambling upon entering the casino nor do I see any other languages other than English on PlayNow/lottery tickets/scratch cards. In addition, addiction gambling is quite a prominent issue among the Chinese community. So, with the lack of reach the Chinese are getting, this ad seems quite reasonably fair.

Now, you may suggest them to learn English etcetcetc, but what the point if your offspring is more than likely going to/already know English? (I can see that in 1-2 generations from now, that majority of people in Richmond won't understand Chinese as much anyway because of this)

why would you expect to see a different language on a scratch card/casino/lottery ticket? this is Canada, therefor its in English and French as the dominant language as it should be.

as for your last point, yes, I will agree with you on that in the sense that it is very possible that could happen. as young adults right now grow older, they'll most likely be teaching their kids English as they'll need it to be in school. as those kids grow up, their kids will learn English. small stores will close down and be reopened with new ones. I do not care if they speak English or not. what I care about is the ease of access I have in my country. I shouldn't have to look up google translate while walking down a street or while trying to order off a menu that doesn't have pictures to easily point at.

[Xu.Vi]

why would you expect to see a different language on a scratch card/casino/lottery ticket? this is Canada, therefor its in English and French as the dominant language as it should be.

as for your last point, yes, I will agree with you on that in the sense that it is very possible that could happen. as young adults right now grow older, they'll most likely be teaching their kids English as they'll need it to be in school. as those kids grow up, their kids will learn English. small stores will close down and be reopened with new ones. I do not care if they speak English or not. what I care about is the ease of access I have in my country. I shouldn't have to look up google translate while walking down a street or while trying to order off a menu that doesn't have pictures to easily point at.

The casino doesn't care nor do I expect them to. I actually agree that the casino's shouldn't be put upon this issue. Its the fact there there isn't any reach for immigrants, which is why programs like this are offered from SUCCESS.

I'm a first generation Chinese Canadian here as well, and I can assure you that I myself can't read or write any Chinese as well. However, it'd be nice if I did pick up on it but in reality, that's a long shot (even longer shot for my future offsprings).

[mac25]

Non white people are going to argue that this is targeting them to merge into the cultural white norm.

But this has nothing to do with white vs other. This is about immigration to a new country and keeping your cultural identity while living in another culture. For example when my family moved here from Norway three generations ago yes we moved into a Scandinavian populated area but we had to learn English just as any foreign immigrant must.

We didn't just go around creating texts only Scandinavians could read.

[underscore]

Since this is Canada could they not just put a small line at the top or bottom in English/French that explains what the ad is for? I'd be less likely to get annoyed by an ad I can't read if I at least know what it's for and that there's a decent reason why it isn't in English.

Just in a sense of acquiring help, I don't recall any other language than English being on the notice along the lines of "know your limit, play within it" with hotlines and programs for addiction gambling upon entering the casino nor do I see any other languages other than English on PlayNow/lottery tickets/scratch cards. In addition, addiction gambling is quite a prominent issue among the Chinese community. So, with the lack of reach the Chinese are getting, this ad seems quite reasonably fair.

Except all the lotto tickets, etc are in English/French. I would wager they're going on the assumption that people in Canada using English/French lotto tickets and slot machines can speak either English or French.

[hotshot1]

You guys are too attached to the notion of having pride for your country. We’re living on a plot of land called Canada where like every other country, the borders are imaginary lines drawn in by people based on the economic situation at the time of formation. You guys strongly want to preserve Canada’s “culture” because of this weird nationalistic attachment to what you think Canada should be like. At a time in history where our world is more global than ever before, hanging on to what you think Canada should be like is not only stupid as fuck but also destructive because it mirrors racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other stupid ass beliefs. In fact, it IS being xenophobic.

Going as far as wanting private businesses to have English signs shows only xenophobia and racism. Basically, you want to force private businesses to have English signage under the guise of building a stronger community when it’s just so you feel better. If there’s a restaurant that advertises only in Chinese, they’re losing out on a ton of potential customers and that’s the risk they’re taking. That said, they must also suffer the consequences. If no one goes there, they’ll be forced to shut down but if they’re popular, they’ll survive. It’s their call. You want to force people to spend extra money to hire translators and wherever, affecting their survival, just so you don’t feel annoyed? If you don’t understand, just don’t go into the store.

And just stfu about wanting people to learn English and assimilate. What if they don’t want to? Again, whatever they do, they will suffer the consequences of their actions. Maybe they choose not to learn English and lose out on a potentially good job. Stop trying to impose your egotistical beliefs on someone else. Just live and let live.

Also, Ulic is the man.

[Noir]

You guys are too attached to the notion of having pride for your country. We’re living on a plot of land called Canada where like every other country, the borders are imaginary lines drawn in by people based on the economic situation at the time of formation. You guys strongly want to preserve Canada’s “culture” because of this weird nationalistic attachment to what you think Canada should be like. At a time in history where our world is more global than ever before, hanging on to what you think Canada should be like is not only stupid as fuck but also destructive because it mirrors racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other stupid ass beliefs. In fact, it IS being xenophobic.

Going as far as wanting private businesses to have English signs shows only xenophobia and racism. Basically, you want to force private businesses to have English signage under the guise of building a stronger community when it’s just so you feel better. If there’s a restaurant that advertises only in Chinese, they’re losing out on a ton of potential customers and that’s the risk they’re taking. That said, they must also suffer the consequences. If no one goes there, they’ll be forced to shut down but if they’re popular, they’ll survive. It’s their call. You want to force people to spend extra money to hire translators and wherever, affecting their survival, just so you don’t feel annoyed? If you don’t understand, just don’t go into the store.

And just stfu about wanting people to learn English and assimilate. What if they don’t want to? Again, whatever they do, they will suffer the consequences of their actions. Maybe they choose not to learn English and lose out on a potentially good job. Stop trying to impose your egotistical beliefs on someone else. Just live and let live.

Also, Ulic is the man.

You know what's xenophobic? You know what's racist? Is the complete exclusion and unnacceptance of a language or culture other than your own.


Nobody is saying take down signs in Chinese. What everyone is saying is that at least have both foreign AND local forms of communication be made available.

But what are the pro-Chinese-only arguments really saying? Yeah, who are the real racist and xenophobes here?

[underscore]

And just stfu about wanting people to learn English and assimilate. What if they don’t want to?

They don't have to assimilate, they just have to not be a prick and learn some basic English. It's not racist to tell someone they need to put up English signage, racism would be telling them they can ONLY have English signage.

You complain about Canadians having pride, yet you have no problem with people trying to create mini versions of their former countries over here? If their language and culture is so much better than that of Canada, to the point where they put absolutely no effort into learning English or French or trying to understand local customs, then they are more than welcome to go back where they came from. After all, if it's so much better, why are they slumming it over here anyways?

[mac25]

You guys are too attached to the notion of having pride for your country. We’re living on a plot of land called Canada where like every other country, the borders are imaginary lines drawn in by people based on the economic situation at the time of formation. You guys strongly want to preserve Canada’s “culture” because of this weird nationalistic attachment to what you think Canada should be like. At a time in history where our world is more global than ever before, hanging on to what you think Canada should be like is not only stupid as fuck but also destructive because it mirrors racism, sexism, xenophobia, and other stupid ass beliefs. In fact, it IS being xenophobic.

Going as far as wanting private businesses to have English signs shows only xenophobia and racism. Basically, you want to force private businesses to have English signage under the guise of building a stronger community when it’s just so you feel better. If there’s a restaurant that advertises only in Chinese, they’re losing out on a ton of potential customers and that’s the risk they’re taking. That said, they must also suffer the consequences. If no one goes there, they’ll be forced to shut down but if they’re popular, they’ll survive. It’s their call. You want to force people to spend extra money to hire translators and wherever, affecting their survival, just so you don’t feel annoyed? If you don’t understand, just don’t go into the store.

And just stfu about wanting people to learn English and assimilate. What if they don’t want to? Again, whatever they do, they will suffer the consequences of their actions. Maybe they choose not to learn English and lose out on a potentially good job. Stop trying to impose your egotistical beliefs on someone else. Just live and let live.

Also, Ulic is the man.

It would seem as though you are stating that we should fracture into ever differing single language/cultural sections, basically splitting Canada up into multiple countries or micro-utopias, so every person who moves out from their old country can rebuild the same thing here.

Do you have any idea of how bad this would effect the economy? Each micro-utopia would have to be able to fully support them selves as no two micro-utopias would be able to understand one another. When communication
slows down productivity slows down.

This would also reinforce hate between the individual communities because we no longer have the blanket of being a joint country, and every one is living in their social/racial micro-utopias.

There is a reason that one language in a country works so well. There is also a reason why Canada is ranked in the top 25 countries to live in, and that's why reinforcing being Canadian is important, because those cliches and cultural Ideologies make this country beautiful.

[skiiipi]

Should Chinese-only Crest toothpaste ad concern Richmond residents? - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/should-chinese-only-crest-toothpaste-ad-concern-richmond-residents-1.2619295)

looks like this is back on the news again...

[ae101]

i dont get this, why would p&g offer ads just in chinese

[skiiipi]

What I don't get is why this Kerry Starchuck chick keeps stirring up shit.
We've been through this already as long as the ad are privately funded, there is nothing wrong with advertisement target specific ethnic groups of people.
If statistic shows that 80% of the people in Richmond read Chinese (not sure on the accuracy of Stat but just as an example), then having an ad in Chinese is a good business decision.
It'd be a different story if the ad was publicly funded.
Posted via RS Mobile

[MaaaadMan]

Starchuck sounds like a racist cunt

[ae101]

What I don't get is why this Kerry Starchuck chick keeps stirring up shit.
We've been through this already as long as the ad are privately funded, there is nothing wrong with advertisement target specific ethnic groups of people.
If statistic shows that 80% of the people in Richmond read Chinese (not sure on the accuracy of Stat but just as an example), then having an ad in Chinese is a good business decision.
It'd be a different story if the ad was publicly funded.
Posted via RS Mobile

chinese people like to group together, so it looks like majoratiy of richmond is chinese, im sure 80% of richmond is not chinese

[skiiipi]

chinese people like to group together, so it looks like majoratiy of richmond looks like its chinese, im sure 80% of richmond is not chinese

I know the stat may not be accurate
but all i am saying is that a private company should be able to dictate their marketing based on target market and their effective reach.

in the case of the CGA ad (in the video) or the custom home sign, they are targeting either Chinese speaking clients or Chinese foreign investors, there is nothing wrong with doing that, it is their own loss if they accidently alienate a loaded english speaking investor, but as a private company thats their choice to make

in P&G's case, if their marketing research team thinks that more chinese speaking people will see that particular bus sign vs. non-chinese speaking people, then it makes good business sense to have the ad in chinese.

[ae101]

i guess someone forgot to tell p&g that chinese ppl in over here dont take buses, they drive expensive cars with bad wraps :lawl:

[godwin]

She probably wants to run for office and need a wedge issue

What I don't get is why this Kerry Starchuck chick keeps stirring up shit.
We've been through this already as long as the ad are privately funded, there is nothing wrong with advertisement target specific ethnic groups of people.
If statistic shows that 80% of the people in Richmond read Chinese (not sure on the accuracy of Stat but just as an example), then having an ad in Chinese is a good business decision.
It'd be a different story if the ad was publicly funded.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Tone Loc]

What I don't get is why this Kerry Starchuck chick keeps stirring up shit.
We've been through this already as long as the ad are privately funded, there is nothing wrong with advertisement target specific ethnic groups of people.
If statistic shows that 80% of the people in Richmond read Chinese (not sure on the accuracy of Stat but just as an example), then having an ad in Chinese is a good business decision.
It'd be a different story if the ad was publicly funded.
Posted via RS Mobile

Because she's racist as fuck. Ironically, other non-Chinese Asians such as myself (and even some Canadianized Chinese) share her points of view regarding the over-ethnicalization of Richmond, but this is seen as "okay" to others who think Starchuck is being racist. The idea of discrimination is a funny thing...

[will068]

What I don't get is why this Kerry Starchuck chick keeps stirring up shit.


I know the stat may not be accurate
but all i am saying is that a private company should be able to dictate their marketing based on target market and their effective reach.

in the case of the CGA ad (in the video) or the custom home sign, they are targeting either Chinese speaking clients or Chinese foreign investors, there is nothing wrong with doing that, it is their own loss if they accidently alienate a loaded english speaking investor, but as a private company thats their choice to make


She's free to lobby whatever she pleases. Just like how having Chinese ads are legal in bus stops.

I don't see anything wrong in what she is doing (her intentions on the other hand... :suspicious: Unless she is being paid to lobby). As long as you do not harm other people or other people's property, no need for regulation or government intervention.

cue MJ popcorn gif.

[Mr.HappySilp]

It would be funny if we move the people in Richmond and force them to live in Quebec for a few years. They will be force to learn french lol since in Quebec they don't care or would ever allow Chinese ads be put up in stores.

But I think is the whole idea of Give an inch we take a mile. Stand firm make people either learn basic English or gtfo. What's a good idea is have a simple English test for anyone between the age of 6 to 60. If you fail the test you simply can't go to Canada.

[snails]

yay! lets segregate communities!

in a week it will be another ad.. more signs.. then eventually Richmond will just be China.. awesome!

the more that it is tolerated the more often it will happen..

not even going to bother this time

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

when i walk down commercial street i feel alienated.

there's all these people with hoops in their ears, and wearing these weird skinny jeans, flannel shirts, and thick brimmed glasses. like, even when they don't need glasses.

they all look like they make 15k net a year, but spend 30k a year.

they all have this weird culture of only hanging with each other, and listening and watching music and movies that no ones ever heard of.

when i walk down with my brand name labels i get sneered at. I feel unwelcomed.

I think we should regulate that area of town, it makes me feel very unwelcomed. very uncanadian (flannel shirts exempt from this uncanadianness).

every time i go to a bar there, one of these weird people always come up to me and act all friendly, and chat me up... pretend they're some awesome like director of all graphic designers or some shit, but clearly they're just wearing supervalue discount bin clothes... and like 4min later of pretending to be articulate and cultured, they ask me if i have any coke or anything else i can share with them.

I think before anyone comes into canada they should pass a retard test. if they fail, they should simply be kicked outta canada.

I want canada to be retard free.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

oh there's this area in east hastings where everyone kinda speaks in slurs and slangs. they all smell like dead cats... they never interact with me unless they're asking for money or food... and when they're together i can't understand what they're saying. they speak some language that normal ppl cant understand. the other day i heard some of their language... i heard things like "rocks" and "bags"... what kinda language are they speaking?

I feel totally alienated. I think they should dress and speak and act like normal canadians. I feel canadians are losing their identity. I'm afraid for our future and my kids.

[320icar]

Lol, worst reference ever.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Yodamaster]

when i walk down commercial street i feel alienated.

there's all these people with hoops in their ears, and wearing these weird skinny jeans, flannel shirts, and thick brimmed glasses. like, even when they don't need glasses.

they all look like they make 15k net a year, but spend 30k a year.

they all have this weird culture of only hanging with each other, and listening and watching music and movies that no ones ever heard of.

when i walk down with my brand name labels i get sneered at. I feel unwelcomed.

I think we should regulate that area of town, it makes me feel very unwelcomed. very uncanadian (flannel shirts exempt from this uncanadianness).

every time i go to a bar there, one of these weird people always come up to me and act all friendly, and chat me up... pretend they're some awesome like director of all graphic designers or some shit, but clearly they're just wearing supervalue discount bin clothes... and like 4min later of pretending to be articulate and cultured, they ask me if i have any coke or anything else i can share with them.

I think before anyone comes into canada they should pass a retard test. if they fail, they should simply be kicked outta canada.

I want canada to be retard free.


How does that relate to this language debate at all?

I don't give a shit if Chinese immigrants put charms on their doors and cook fish every night, but this is Canada, and our official languages are English and French. An ad aimed at a small portion of immigrants doesn't really matter, but a household brand such as Crest shouldn't be able to ignore the official language(s) in public.

I have a feeling that the hipsters on commercial speak english.


People say that not allowing a foreign language on a public display without english representation is racist, but the more this happens, the more it segregates that district to the other 99% of Canada.

[snails]

How does that relate to this language debate at all?

I don't give a shit if Chinese immigrants put charms on their doors and cook fish every night, but this is Canada, and our official languages are English and French. An ad aimed at a small portion of immigrants doesn't really matter, but a household brand such as Crest shouldn't be able to ignore the official language(s) in public.

I have a feeling that the hipsters on commercial speak english.


People say that not allowing a foreign language on a public display without english representation is racist, but the more this happens, the more it segregates that district to the other 99% of Canada.

http://collegewiz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/meetsomeonewhohates.gif

[gars]

An ad aimed at a small portion of immigrants doesn't really matter, but a household brand such as Crest shouldn't be able to ignore the official language(s) in public.

what difference does it make if it's in the public, or an ad in a newspaper/magazine? or what about the non-english radio stations?

And what does it matter if it's a "household" brand - that doesn't support your argument. So a local mom and pop shop can advertise in a foreign language, but Procter and Gamble must advertise in English?

My point is, where do you get to draw the line? The bus stop has licensed out their space to an advertising company - and in turn, I'm sure they get a percentage of the profit. Because Translink is a crown corp, does that mean all advertising on their property must be in an Official Language?

What about advertising that have no words - would that be allowed? what if the advertising just showed the chinese character for love tattooed on someone's arm, would that be considered a foreign language, or is that considered art?

I don't like segregated communities - but I just don't see how we can control what someone puts up as an advertisement, unless it's discriminatory, sexual, etc.

[stewie]

what difference does it make if it's in the public, or an ad in a newspaper/magazine? or what about the non-english radio stations?

And what does it matter if it's a "household" brand - that doesn't support your argument. So a local mom and pop shop can advertise in a foreign language, but Procter and Gamble must advertise in English?

My point is, where do you get to draw the line? The bus stop has licensed out their space to an advertising company - and in turn, I'm sure they get a percentage of the profit. Because Translink is a crown corp, does that mean all advertising on their property must be in an Official Language?

What about advertising that have no words - would that be allowed? what if the advertising just showed the chinese character for love tattooed on someone's arm, would that be considered a foreign language, or is that considered art?

I don't like segregated communities - but I just don't see how we can control what someone puts up as an advertisement, unless it's discriminatory, sexual, etc.

i think it makes quite a big difference...

if its an ad in a asian newspaper, go for it, odds are that if your reading the paper...you can read the ad. if its on a big sign in an open street where the official language is english/french, it bugs me....despite the way you (or others who dont mind this) may feel, but im prettttty sure it pisses off a LOT of people. i see posters for red fm...i know its a radio station i cant understand, and i know i wont listen to it for that reason. but i also dont see them throwing their language in my face. truthfully everyone i know cant stand the fact that they're allowed to do this.

a mom and pop store is just that. mom and pop. crest has a higher reputation and higher standards to live upon. i wouldn't be surprised if they get some hate mail by some pissed off people who live in the area.

if an ad has no words but just the character love tattooed on a guys arm, i could care less. fuck make it a black and grey poster and sell it to calvin klein...

it should be simple to keep it from segregating...just keep it english or french.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

well for those too idiotic to understand, my references were satirical. but nevertheless, they have a point.

You guys bitch about language, I bitch about personal presentation.

where do you draw the line?

and official language... that's a dead argument...

A country's official language refers to the language used within its government... courts parliaments and administration. Since the means of expression of the people cannot be changed by any law, the term "OFFICIAL LANGUAGE" does not refer to the language used by the people of the country, but by its government.

official language is used for OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

the language of the people are dictated by.... wait for it... THE PEOPLE.

as for segregated communities... that's exactly why i brought up hipsters and junkies.
their communities are pretty much as segregated from you, as richmond is from you.


this isn't a language debate. it's a difference debate.

you guys don't like the language difference. i don't like the presentation difference. it's all the same.

I deal with it. cuz i know people from all over the globe are different. i accept that fact. i don't impose my values on them, they can segregate and do whatever they want. but since im flexible, im still able to interact with them, cuz im willing to learn their values and use their values when i talk to them.

you guys don't deal with it. you guys just want people to bend their will to your values because of a PATHETIC reason of feeling "uncomfortable" (man the fuck up, deal with it, the world doesnt revolve around you).

and like i said. official language is a dead argument. your guys's idea and definition of "official language" is incorrect.

and as for segregation, i already mentioned it... we're all segregated into our own cultures and "groups" already.

any feeling of segregation or loss of identity is SELF IMPOSED. you guys are imposing and creating that own problem for yourselves.

if you just got along and accepted, no one would complain or bitch or fight. but you guys CAUSE the problem by imposing your will on others.

my two examples of hipsters and junkies were exaggerated, but has truth cuz that's how the general stubborn population views them as.
but really when i walk down commercial or east hastings, i don't feel threatened or uncomfortable. because i know thats the way THOSE people are. thats THEIR little culture and they got their lives working that way. I can fucking go in there and protest, or throw tomatoes at them or kill them off. but really? who the fuck cares. I learn about their ways and when im there, i can navigate their way. i have become better, more fuller, more of a globalist.

you can't fucking force people to do things a certain way (especially when they're not physically harming anyone or breaking any major laws).





lets take this to an extreme. lets say we get up in arms and we're willing to go to war and draw blood. are you guys willing to take it to that level? i know some of you guys probably would. slippery slope.

so ... the solution is, how about we all just accept each other and not let it get to that segregated level where one side IMPOSES their WILL and VALUES on others, and forces the situation to get ugly.

just everyone shut the fuck up and mind your own god damn business right? isn't that always the best solution?

*cocks rifle*
wanna fight?

lets just kill each other, the winner gets to make the rules. that'll work too.

[Gululu]

there are thousands of ads in completely english (or other foreign language) in china. i dont see any chinese complain about it. so why do canadians complain? oh right because "uncomfortable" lmao. talk about selfishness and narrow minded

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

as for PG using chinese ad... lol

they probably just recycled an ad from asia, knowing the masses here are asian. it's called marketing.

they're allowed to do it because it's legal, and they run a multi billion dollar business and they know business more than any of you guys do. They know what works and what makes money. they KNOW how to target the people they WANT to target.

they're allowed to do this because we live in a WESTERN nation, where CAPITALISM RULES ALL. understand?

it's BUSINESS.

this isn't a totalitarian or communist state.

why the FUCK would they put an english sign here, when most people here will just walk past it and ignore it? WHY THE FUCK WOULD A BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY, WASTE THEIR FUCKING MONEY on that? WHY?

if you made them post it in english, you know what P&G would do? they would say "fuck you" and not want to waste any money and remove the ad.
that's what they'd do. because it's a fucking BUSINESS.

before you guys argue back. consider these vital points.

we represent capitalism. we are capitalists.
businesses are the backbone of capitalism
marketing and advertisement drive businesses
people are attracted to advertisements
advertisements are supposed to be efficient in targeting the specific people needed by the businesses dictating the advertisements

understand?

PG are smarter, and more efficient than any of you. the fact that they probably already have a huge westerner market, they would rather target the chinese, who might not have PG brand loyalty. it's a fucking strategy. u know? they're not stupid. they know what they are doing. they're targetting chinese people for THEIR OWN CORPORATE REASONS. and u cant dictate their reasons. they are their own company, with their own values and wants and needs. they can dictate their strategies however they want.

what do you guys wanna do now? dictate how businesses can run? down to who they can advertise to? why don't you guys just let the government take over everything? yeah? oh wait... cuz we're capitalists.

don't associate the west to 'good values' and whatever disillusioned delusional perception of what you think "canada" is.

the west represents free capitalistic trade. you are a capitalist FIRST, and whatever your values are SECOND.

you're a soldier of capitalism. whether you like it or not. now go out and fucking spend some money where you WANT.

you guys are forgetting that advertisements are just that. advertisements. just like the spam ads you see all over revscene or when you do a google search or the shit before youtube. you just fucking ignore it if it doesnt appeal to you. and you click on it if it does.

if you see an ad for gay night a celebrities in english, do you go and feel welcomed cuz it's in english? you suddenly gonna wanna go to gay night? NO. you just fucking ignore it cuz that's not what you're into. the ad was targeting the LGBT community. NOT YOU.

now why would it matter if it were in some other language? what if the gays spoke their own gay language? and the ad was in gay language? would you get all upset? WHY the FUCK would you even care? the club caters to the gays, NOT YOU. RIGHT?

don't you guys see how your logic is being totally skewed by your emotional insecurities? you feel negative, therefore you perceive the ads as negative. how about you just grow a fucking pair of balls and suddenly it's not so negative and scary anymore?

[gars]

if its an ad in a asian newspaper, go for it, odds are that if your reading the paper...you can read the ad. if its on a big sign in an open street where the official language is english/french, it bugs me....despite the way you (or others who dont mind this) may feel, but im prettttty sure it pisses off a LOT of people. i see posters for red fm...i know its a radio station i cant understand, and i know i wont listen to it for that reason. but i also dont see them throwing their language in my face. truthfully everyone i know cant stand the fact that they're allowed to do this.

Sure, it pisses people off - but people get pissed off all the time about things that aren't illegal. I've met people who get pissed off when they see an interacial couple on the street. I've met people who get pissed off when they meet two guys holding hands. I've met people who are pissed off when they see a man wearing a Taqiyah (Muslim "Cap"). You're allowed to be pissed off - There is no law out there that can control your emotions - just like legally - there is no law to control what you're pissed about.

I can understand why people would get upset at SUCCESS who ran an advertisement for gambling addiction in Chinese - because they are mostly taxpayer funded, and they have a mandate to help ALL immigrants, not just those who speak/read Chinese. However, PG is not publicly funded - you can't control what they do with their money. If they decide to run an advertisement that will eventually turn people away from their brands - that is their prerogative.

[stewie]

I deal with it. cuz i know people from all over the globe are different. i accept that fact. i don't impose my values on them, they can segregate and do whatever they want. but since im flexible, im still able to interact with them, cuz im willing to learn their values and use their values when i talk to them.

yes, people are different, and if they were all as flexible as you, then im sure they'd learn english but they dont, and lots of them have no intention on doing so, they expect everyone else to cater to them. I have no intention of learning chinese/mandarin/russian/hebrew etc, but im also not going to go to their homeland and act like me and the other canadians I find own the place. im willing to talk to anyone like a normal human being, so long as they're willing to put forth the effort that I put into them. if not, in my mind, they can go **** themselves.

[Yodamaster]

We represent capitalism. we are capitalists.



In order to survive in North America as it currently is, everyone needs to resort to playing the capitalist game. Despite that, some of us do not support capitalism.

[MarkyMark]

Fuck it I'm switching to Colgate, PG ain't worth the mouthwash I spit back in the sink
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yes, people are different, and if they were all as flexible as you, then im sure they'd learn english but they dont, and lots of them have no intention on doing so, they expect everyone else to cater to them. I have no intention of learning chinese/mandarin/russian/hebrew etc, but im also not going to go to their homeland and act like me and the other canadians I find own the place. im willing to talk to anyone like a normal human being, so long as they're willing to put forth the effort that I put into them. if not, in my mind, they can go **** themselves.

yeah but they are not as flexible as me.

and neither are you.

so what is the solution?

so here's we have a game... and we have some rules...
1) some people are inflexible (applies to both sides).
2) we cannot force them to be flexible or learn new things (applies to both sides).

yeah you have no intention of learning any other language.
and they have no intention of learning any other language.

who's right?
just cuz they're in canada doesn't make you right. canada is not yours. it's theirs too.
that's the fundamental problem with your guys's thinking. and why you are in an outrage. you think you claim this land or cuz you were here first, that it's yours to represent... but you're wrong. it's EVERYONE's. anyone that is here. even if they don't speak a lick of english, never went camping, don't play hockey. they still are just as much canadian as you are.

so back to the problem... both sides are inflexible. so the obvious solution is, i give you a gun, and i give them a gun, and whoever walks out of the fight wins right?

cuz obviously both sides wont budge.

or maybe we can be civilized human beings and fucking just LET IT BE.

if you don't let it be, then it boils down to fighting. this isn't just one incident. this is a huge population that now represents canada as much as you do. and since there's a lot of them. their opinions, values, and way of life matter just as much as yours.

you have no intention of going to their homeland? great. no one cares.
a lot of canadians and other westerners have done so already.

tons of chinese will never come here either and don't even wanna set foot here.
they're just like you. but chinese version.

so what?

people don't care what you will do dude.


you won't do this, so you expect them not to?
lol... the world doesnt work like that man.

if you think it's fair that you didn't try to eat the lion, doesn't mean the lion won't try to eat you.

you say you're willing to talk to a human as long as they put effort you put into them.
but you're not putting any effort at all. you expect them to put effort into you first?
don't u see how that thinking/value system doesnt get you jack shit?

they're doing the same thing to you. they don't wanna learn english. what the fuck are you gonna do about it?
you don't wanna learn chinese. what the fuck are they gonan do about it?

they're willing to put as much effort as you put into them first too.




you have a very wrong perspective of how they come here and expect people to cater to them. it's not like that.
they came here, for whatever reason they want.
and there's already a lot of chinese here. and lots of chinese born canadians too. the culture is already here. it just so happens that they dont NEED to learn english. it's not that they don't put effort. it's just that canada has adapted to another language because there are enough people here that speak that langauge. understand?

it's not like they came here and STOLE your langauge, and everyone that puts up chinese signs are doing it FOR the chinese. NO.

the businesses put it up for CHINESE because that is the RESULT of reality.

the signs came AFTER the chinese. not the other way around.

they didn't steal anything. they didnt demand anything.

nothing is permanent. not culture, not values, not your canada. things changed. and you didn't.
like all the other old grumpy people... you can go think about the "good old days" while the world evolves without you.

or you can accept it and realise your idea of the world has been shattered and things change all the time. you have to adapt. that is life. the world doesn't revolve around YOU.

canada is not YOURS. your values don't represent CANADA.

there are PLENTY of canadians that support this, and a lot of 1st and 2nd and 3rd generation canadian chinese that don't mind and are willing to support this as well. ALL their opinions count just as much as yours. and there's more of them. this is a capitalistic democracy. the people dictate what happens.


In order to survive in North America as it currently is, everyone needs to resort to playing the capitalist game. Despite that, some of us do not support capitalism.

yeah well, then go run a party and hope you win some seats, or try to take over canada with force. bitching about ads won't change capitalism or the ad problem.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Sure, it pisses people off - but people get pissed off all the time about things that aren't illegal. I've met people who get pissed off when they see an interacial couple on the street. I've met people who get pissed off when they meet two guys holding hands. I've met people who are pissed off when they see a man wearing a Taqiyah (Muslim "Cap"). You're allowed to be pissed off - There is no law out there that can control your emotions - just like legally - there is no law to control what you're pissed about.

I can understand why people would get upset at SUCCESS who ran an advertisement for gambling addiction in Chinese - because they are mostly taxpayer funded, and they have a mandate to help ALL immigrants, not just those who speak/read Chinese. However, PG is not publicly funded - you can't control what they do with their money. If they decide to run an advertisement that will eventually turn people away from their brands - that is their prerogative.

this.

everyone re-read this as many times as it takes for you to understand the concept.


if i was PG and marketing told me i might lose a few thousand people because of this ad, but i will gain 100x as many chinese followers.
well fuck those 1000 people. i want money. i want to cater to the crowd. the crowd just happens to be chinese in richmond.

ever go to a price smart foods in surrey? and in richmond? do you get pissed off when half the store is indian stuff in surrey? and when half the stuff is chinese stuff in richmond? do you feel like you have the right to tell price smart what to put on their shelves? you think you have the right to tell them how to make money?

dude... the results are capitalistic driven. they target, and market the biggest crowds they can lure in, with whatever it takes. and in this instance, you cater to chinese, with CHINESE language.

like my gay bar advertisement example.... you don't bitch at celebrities for ads that target gays only do you? does it piss you off when you see a HUGE BILLBOARD with two males and a number to call for some gay hot sex chat? OBVIOUSLY it's not for you. and they don't give a FUCK what you think. they're trying to fish in the homos. and if you're not a homo, need not apply... and if you're glad you can READ the gay ads cuz they're in english... that is your OWN PERSONAL OPINION AND FEELINGS. no one else gives a fuck if you can read it or not. you feeling "UNCOMFORTABLE" with not being able to read ads in other languages (that aren't even targeting you)... as ridiculous as me being uncomfortable when i see a fat chick wearing tight pants. that's our own problem and insecurity we have to overcome ourselves to become BETTER human beings.

it's THAT simple. the companies are legally individuals with money, in which they can spend in any way they want.



like seriously, what is it that you guys don't get?

think about it, if you were in a position of power and peace and everyone getting along was your priority how could u handle this situation?
you would seriously just kick them all out? lol. yeah the world will really respect you as a leader and country after that... lol.
you have to just let them be. you can't FORCE people to fucking live some way of life man. there is NO solution other than this one.
you guys are only considering how you FEEL. which is IRRELEVANT in the big picture. what about economic impact? what about country relations? what about global relations? and the thousands of other points which are all WAY more important than how YOU FEEL.
understand? you're just an ant. the colony is what matters. not you. colonies don't revolve around single individuals... unless you're in north korea... then the whole nation revolves around a single individual and how he feels.
if you don't like someone, you can execute them by feeding them to starving hounds. you can do WHATEVER YOU FEEL!!!
but we're lucky we don't live in a place like that. we're lucky individuals can't make decisions based on subjective feelings.

if you wanna go somewhere where there are rules enforcing that, then move to quebec. and we all know how all of canada feels about quebec.
you really wanna be like them?

There's no such thing as "as long as im happy i don't give a fuck about the other shit". your happiness does not reflect reality. your insecurity with a foreign language is just that. an insecurity. go see a therapist. a psychologist. chinese, which has 955 million native speakers (14.4% of the world).... is a lot more than 5.43% of native english speakers... 100% chinese aint going away. it's going to grow. and spread. your kids kids will be learning that shit you understand?

it doesn't matter if we're in canada... cuz canada doesn't have a fucking invisible shield around it and we don't run independently and we are not self sufficient. we are part of a greater whole called the globe. and the globe dictates everything. your country and nation are second to the world. understand? we are connected and rely on other countries/people/values and their "stuff" to operate.