[iwantaskyline]

Looking for advice on this matter of a construction company working on my parents property without their permission.

They have worked into about a metre and half of our property and even fenced it off.

The company in question asked for permission months ago but we refused them, fast forward to now they started construction finally but never touched our land. Last week someone from the company dropped off a $500 cheque to my parents and said this is for "being good neighbours and apologies for the noise". After that they started working on our property.

There are no signed documents, no verbal agreements, just that $500 transaction. Unfortunately my parents did deposit the cheque.

I have emailed city hall already but no response yet.

Is there anything we can do here? Do they have a right to do this after the $500 cheque?

Thanks,

[nns]

I would call city hall instead of emailing them.

[lowside67]

There is no mention in your post... did you even try calling/talking to the construction company?

[BoostedBB6]

Tell them to get off your property or call the RCMP. Seems pretty easy to deal with. They are not invited onto your property and have been told they are not allowed. At this point its time to call the cops.

[GLOW]

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130601123855/injusticegodsamongus/images/2/25/Get-off-my-lawn.jpg

seriously though, i agree with calling the city and/or the police non-emergency line to find out what your options are first.

[CharlesInCharge]

Write a letter thanking them for the noise compensation and ask for additional $1000 for them being on your property. Put it in an envelope and tape that to a stick, driven into the ground where they cross the line.

[Gumby]

What did they fence off? Is it a tree protection barrier?

I'm surprised they gave you $500 even though you didn't give them permission.

My neighbour's tree affected the construction of my house. During the permit stage, I remember asking them:

1) Can I cut down your tree? They said no.
2) Can I cut down your tree and pay you $$$. They still said no.

So I had to alter my plans. Didn't pay them a cent. :flamemad:

They benefited from my new fence though.

[iwantaskyline]

They removed our existing fence and put up their OWN fence a metre and half into our property.

I called RCMP, said to contact bylaws. Unfortunately they're closed right now so I guess I'll try tomorrow.

[MindBomber]

I recall reasonable 'intrusions' onto a neighbor's property being permitted when necessary but it could vary depending on the municipality.

Bylaw will likely confirm that to be the case.

The first thing you should do is call the construction company.

I would suggest that you should also return the check if you're not going to be "good neighbors" regarding the general demands of construction; I say this strictly from an ethical perspective.

[winson604]

If this is Vancouver your email would end up at my office. It's a civil issue, no Bylaws in Vancouver to help you out on that one.

[Hondaracer]

what kind of fence? and what kind of fence did they take down?

pics

[Euro7r]

His parents accepted and deposited the money. Isn't that a sign of acknowledgement to go into a binding agreement with whatever the construction company is doing?

[multicartual]

Something something something Surrey Jack

[RRxtar]

This thread lacks so many details

What kind of construction? Are they working on your neighbours house or are they working on the street?

Have you tried contacting the company?

[iwantaskyline]

This thread lacks so many details

What kind of construction? Are they working on your neighbours house or are they working on the street?

Have you tried contacting the company?

They're building townhouses behind our property.

Tried contacting them, guy said one their guys already said we agreed and to talk to him. Called him and no answer. I'm waiting on bylaws tomorrow.

[bballguy]

The company in question asked for permission months ago but we refused them, fast forward to now they started construction finally but never touched our land. Last week someone from the company dropped off a $500 cheque to my parents and said this is for "being good neighbours and apologies for the noise". After that they started working on our property.


His parents accepted and deposited the money. Isn't that a sign of acknowledgement to go into a binding agreement with whatever the construction company is doing?


What binding agreement? His parents refused their request, and they came back a while after and said hey, thanks for being good neighbours, here's $500....Where does it say, 'hey, let us work on ur property and you can accept these $500?'....oh yeah, nowhere.

[Selanne_200]

^ Yes this may be the case in facts but the reality is that his parent deposited the cheque which made this into a his word against mine kind of case. It's easy now for the construction company to say that there was a verbal agreement between the parents and them and the $500 was consideration for allowing them to "trespass" onto the property. Greed will come back and bite you in the ass.

[bballguy]

^ Yes this may be the case in facts but the reality is that his parent deposited the cheque which made this into a his word against mine kind of case. It's easy now for the construction company to say that there was a verbal agreement between the parents and them and the $500 was consideration for allowing them to "trespass" onto the property. Greed will come back and bite you in the ass.

I was just answering the question.
That said, as someone else mentioned earlier, if the construction company was in fact giving the money to be allowed to proceed with construction on their property, then, for ethical reasons, I would give the money back and tell them to get off my property.

[Selanne_200]

I really don't see how there is going to be much of a case going for the guy's parents. Even if they give the money back, the construction company can just claim that they tried to unilaterally going back on their verbal agreement

[Rich Sandor]

No way the construction company should encroach on your property without WRITTEN permission.

You should be allowed to keep the $500 since it was offered as an inconvenience settlement for the noise.. but had nothing to do with property encroachment.

[Hondaracer]

Speak with the developer, not the company building the townhouses. Unless they are one and the same
Posted via RS Mobile

[Selanne_200]

No way the construction company should encroach on your property without WRITTEN permission.

You should be allowed to keep the $500 since it was offered as an inconvenience settlement for the noise.. but had nothing to do with property encroachment.

I honestly think the construction crew just pulled a fast one here hoping they would deposit the cheque. $500 for inconvenience settlement for the noise? :suspicious: How often do construction crew gives a shit about noise as long as they operate within the proper hours and they have their permits and development plans in place. A settlement implies that there is an underlying dispute and it was agreed to be settled which there wasn't any except for the property encroachment. Don't get me wrong, I don't think what the construction company did was right, but just think for a second why anyone would offer you free money without any motives behind it?

[StylinRed]

go out with your phone record the construction and you telling them the owners did not agree or want them on your property by doing nothing its a sign of acknowledgement (and may be on the hook for any shared benefit like the fence)

call 911 stating people are trespassing and vandalizing your property

call the city on Monday

Lawyer up


your parents deposited the $500 though ultimately you're screwed but you can still be a pita

as for trying to say the $500 was simply for being good neighbours good luck with that unless it's written on the cheque otherwise its acknowledgement (and even then it would be tough)

you could still argue you didnt agree with your property being used but its going to be a long fight now after money has exchanged hands

[Selanne_200]

Back to OP, I would try to talk to the construction developer first but if that doesn't work, I would move the fences out of your property and make it known that they're trespassing? Hang a sign saying there has not been permission for them to work on your private property.

I'm not so sure if calling 911 would do much good, maybe file a civil claim in small claims court and serve the paper to them? At the very least they know you'll put up a fight and the worst you can do is waste your filing fees with the court

[rriggi]

Please do not call 911 about this. 911 is for EMERGENCIES, call the non-emergency line.

I would I just remove/destroy what was done on my property then send an invoice for removal and disposal to the contractor, but I'm a malicious prick.:devil:

[poopyiii]

From my basic business law knowledge, contract has 6 essential parts to be fulfilled to be consider binding.

1) There was an offer & acceptance. (being good neighbour & deposited the cheque)
2) did both sides gained benefits & did both side exchange promises? (yes- accepted cheques & indirectly accepted the "good neighbour statement")
3) capacity- both parties' mind are reasonable under the circumstance
4) legality of the exchange- nothing is illegal about it (just unethical)
5) intentions of both parties- did the parties understand contract & its consequences and its legal boundaries? (ambiguous in the situation)
6) in writing (not necessary for the situation described above)- verbal is considered binding in your case with your parent's implied action

With ambiguity and the "construction worker" mislead you with the "cheque", you can possibly argue for "contra proferentum" or "fundamental mistake". With ambiguity, court will usually side with the offeree and "return both party to original position". Anything you do onward related to the construction company, it is best to put it into some kind of written form: letters or emails or record any related conversation. This provides evidences to aid you if it goes to court or they deny anything happen.

Any unwanted thing on your land is consider tresspassing. To make it even more official, put up a sign that says "no trespassing" and/or specific to the construction company. Take a pic/vid of having the sign put up. If they throw any crap or do anything on to your property after the sign, you can get the police involved. Also, it would be wise not to use that $500 & put it aside at least.

[Sunfighter]

Having been around construction my entire life I have encountered situations similar what the OP indicated ; 'they took down my parents' fence and put a new one up inside our property...' it might be possible that your parents' actual fence was outside of their property line and that the developer was just "correcting" the mistake.

The obvious thing to do, as almost every single person here has stated, is to contact the developer or simply walk onto the site and ask to speak to the site supervisor directly. However, I often get the sense on RS that people would prefer to avoid direct conversations and try to use third-parties/cities/officials/lawyers, etc., to do the same thing that they are perfect capable of achieving in the first place, which is to engage the offending party in a dialogue.

[meme405]

If they encroached 1.5m on your property you must have a fairly decent chunk of land.

Is there a particular reason you wouldn't let them onto your property? Was your fence a nice one? Cause there is a damn good chance that the developer would be willing to put up a pretty nice fence for you guys if you act neighborly.

None of this makes what they are doing right, but when someone is unreasonable ethics go out the window quick in the construction industry. This is not to say I think you are being unreasonable, but I don't have enough information to go off of.

And as for everyone above who is saying you can be a thorn in their side, if they are building a townhouse or condominium directly adjacent to his property I am pretty sure they can make his home life a living hell. So maybe thats not the best route. Trust me pissed of construction workers can throw common sense out completely if you piss them off.

[Matlock]

Make sure you know where your actual property line is before you start a war.

My boss had an asshole of a neighbor who always complained and screamed about random stuff. So he had the land surveyed and it turned out the fence was actually 2m onto his property. So, he rips down the old fence and the neighbors flower beds (which are on his property) and puts a new one up right on the surveyed property line.

[Hondaracer]

Also anyone building townhouses is going to have surveyors out there constantly, so there isn't going to be much of a dispute if your built over your property line
Posted via RS Mobile

[Great68]

Having been around construction my entire life I have encountered situations similar what the OP indicated ; 'they took down my parents' fence and put a new one up inside our property...' it might be possible that your parents' actual fence was outside of their property line and that the developer was just "correcting" the mistake.


This.

Having been around construction my entire life I have encountered situations similar what the OP indicated ; 'they took down my parents' fence and put a new one up inside our property...' it might be possible that your parents' actual fence was outside of their property line and that the developer was just "correcting" the mistake.


And This.

I find it hard to believe that a contractor would tear down an existing fence and build a new one 5 feet over just because they felt like they wanted a bigger property. I'd bet the old fence was in the wrong spot.

[iwantaskyline]

Our fence was not in the wrong spot that I can guarantee. Why would they even ask for permission if that wasnt our land to begin with?

[iwantaskyline]

If they encroached 1.5m on your property you must have a fairly decent chunk of land.

Is there a particular reason you wouldn't let them onto your property? Was your fence a nice one? Cause there is a damn good chance that the developer would be willing to put up a pretty nice fence for you guys if you act neighborly.

None of this makes what they are doing right, but when someone is unreasonable ethics go out the window quick in the construction industry. This is not to say I think you are being unreasonable, but I don't have enough information to go off of.

And as for everyone above who is saying you can be a thorn in their side, if they are building a townhouse or condominium directly adjacent to his property I am pretty sure they can make his home life a living hell. So maybe thats not the best route. Trust me pissed of construction workers can throw common sense out completely if you piss them off.

I initially refused them because of their shady tactics. They sent my parents a letter and made it seem like it was from the city to get them to sign it and allow them to work into our land for a few months.

After that they called me and offered $100 compensation which was not worth my time so I told them to f off basically and didnt speak to them again.

I guess since my parents deposited the cheque its a SOL situation...I dont really want to get a lawyer.

[Great68]

Changing a property line requires a lot more than just handing someone a $500 cheque......

For starters, the change would have to be registered with the Land Title office, and would have notaries/lawyers involved.

[Selanne_200]

^ this was never about changing a property line. The construction crew enroached onto ops yard without permission and now op is wondering what can be done. Others are suggesting that maybe the original fence was built outside of the existing property line which is fairly common. With the new information just provided about the "shady tactics" prior to the 500 cheque, it seems to me more and more that they had hope op would take the bait and they did, and now it's going to be hard to fight the case. With that said, since it's only a few months, would it be a better choice to talk to the crew, be on good terms with them, get a nice fence out of it at the end instead of spending money to lawyer up to get them off and by the time it goes in front of a judge, construction is probably close to completion already
Posted via RS Mobile

[VR6GTI]

Same thing happened to my dad at his house, it ended up costing the contracting $30k

[iwantaskyline]

Same thing happened to my dad at his house, it ended up costing the contracting $30k

Could you explain more?

[VR6GTI]

Could you explain more?
Construction company was building a new house beside my dads. Its at our cabin so he knew they were doing construction but only goes there weekly in the summer. When he went to the cabin one day, he noticed they had poured a huge concrete slab for a deck that was over about a foot onto his property line. My dad asked them to remove it but settled on a nice check instead.

I would be pissed if someone removed my fence without asking my permission.

[jing]

From my basic business law knowledge, contract has 6 essential parts to be fulfilled to be consider binding.

1) There was an offer & acceptance. (being good neighbour & deposited the cheque)
2) did both sides gained benefits & did both side exchange promises? (yes- accepted cheques & indirectly accepted the "good neighbour statement")
3) capacity- both parties' mind are reasonable under the circumstance
4) legality of the exchange- nothing is illegal about it (just unethical)
5) intentions of both parties- did the parties understand contract & its consequences and its legal boundaries? (ambiguous in the situation)
6) in writing (not necessary for the situation described above)- verbal is considered binding in your case with your parent's implied action

With ambiguity and the "construction worker" mislead you with the "cheque", you can possibly argue for "contra proferentum" or "fundamental mistake". With ambiguity, court will usually side with the offeree and "return both party to original position". Anything you do onward related to the construction company, it is best to put it into some kind of written form: letters or emails or record any related conversation. This provides evidences to aid you if it goes to court or they deny anything happen.

Any unwanted thing on your land is consider tresspassing. To make it even more official, put up a sign that says "no trespassing" and/or specific to the construction company. Take a pic/vid of having the sign put up. If they throw any crap or do anything on to your property after the sign, you can get the police involved. Also, it would be wise not to use that $500 & put it aside at least.

While silence cannot be considered acceptance, unless accounted for beforehand, the exception is that when the offeree conducts themselves in a manner that would lead a reasonable person to believe that they had agreed, such as accepting the cheque, and depositing it.

[meme405]

While silence cannot be considered acceptance, unless accounted for beforehand, the exception is that when the offeree conducts themselves in a manner that would lead a reasonable person to believe that they had agreed, such as accepting the cheque, and depositing it.

Yeah, you cannot lead someone to believe you have an agreement, then stab them in the back. If the two parties act like they have an agreement, then the court will look at it as if there was an agreement.

[Great68]

^ this was never about changing a property line. The construction crew enroached onto ops yard without permission and now op is wondering what can be done. Others are suggesting that maybe the original fence was built outside of the existing property line which is fairly common. With the new information just provided about the "shady tactics" prior to the 500 cheque, it seems to me more and more that they had hope op would take the bait and they did, and now it's going to be hard to fight the case. With that said, since it's only a few months, would it be a better choice to talk to the crew, be on good terms with them, get a nice fence out of it at the end instead of spending money to lawyer up to get them off and by the time it goes in front of a judge, construction is probably close to completion already
Posted via RS Mobile

If I was the OP, I'd take the $500 for noise/inconvenience.
But If the crew built a new fence 1.5M into my yard, and I was 100% sure it was on my side of the line, I would tear that fence the fuck down immediately.

[racerman88]

Call the city and tell them what happened and that you want a site inspector to come out and deal with them.
Take pictures and document everything for now.

[Spidey]

1) does it appear that they will not move the fence back to where it was after they are done doing what they need do to?

2) the only way to be sure the fence was on the exact property line is getting the info from the city, not because "you are sure".

At the end of the day the construction will keep going on... post pictures please.

[Hondaracer]

somewhat related but not lol.. my mom is a mortgage broker and has a few very good clients/friends that live and work part time in India, some of them have insanely stupid big properties including farm land etc.

One guy who already lives in an extremely nice place in West Van owned like a 200 acre farm or somthing and a large company built a huge factory/industrial building that encroached on the far reaches of the corner of the property

somthing to do with the law in India and the cost of the actual building that was built, his settlement was in the double digit millions lol, crazy

[acemist]

Our fence was not in the wrong spot that I can guarantee. Why would they even ask for permission if that wasnt our land to begin with?

OP how can you guarantee that your fence wasnt in the wrong place? If you have any documentation, such as a survey plan then what is there to wonder? They cannot just transfer 1.5m of ur land into their name through verbal agreement and $500 dollars. I wont go into detail but it takes a number of steps and few weeks at least to process.

If this is in vancouver, u can go onto vanmap and look at ur land size and just simply walk the depth of ur lot. Its approx, but u got 1.5m of difference.

Or if you have a realtor friend have them find the old listing of the townhouse being build now and find the land size of both yours and underconstrutions.

Lastly, ive seen alot of construction in smaller lots where during construction, shared fences usually needs to be removed because of the excavation an the builders will put up a new shared fence afterwards. Donno if this is ur case.

Good luck
Posted via RS Mobile

[E-40six]

Hey OP,

Can you go outside to your front curb and look for the property marker and take a picture it in relation to the temporary fencing the contractors put up?

I went outside to take a picture of my property line marker to show you what it looks like
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn57/ITRalex/photo1_zps358d0f00.jpg (http://s301.photobucket.com/user/ITRalex/media/photo1_zps358d0f00.jpg.html)

[Selanne_200]

^I thought these were just datum points where the surveyors work off of and they're not necessarily placed at all property lines?

[Soundy]

Okay kids, let's have a little dose of reality here.

First of all, OP, WHY did your parents deny the company permission to chop into their yard a little? Were they intentionally trying to be difficult and un-neighbourly? Or did they somehow get the idea that the company was planning to permanently TAKE OVER that little strip of land? Or was there something really special about that bit of land? Indian burial ground or something?

Second, OP, did these guys actually build a permanent fence, or is it a temporary construction fence? My money is on the latter.

So here's what happens on a development like you're talking about: they don't just make a hole in the middle of the property and drop a building in it. They need to dig it up right to the property line to address slopes, install drainage, and ultimately, re-landscape the entire plot. And probably put up a better, newer fence than was there before.

They COULD possibly dig right up to the property line and stop, but that would make proper landscaping tricky, and depending on how close they're building to that line, likely not leave enough room for heavy equipment to move around the building. Zoom-booms and the like would probably have to cross the fenceline and tear up the grass on the other side of the property line, so what's the best way to do it? Take down the old fence, dig a bit over a the line, and then fix it all nice and pretty afterward. A temporary fence is required for safety and security reasons to keep people out of the site.

So about the workers coming in, dropping off a check, and digging up the ground, I know the RS default is to jump straight to the position that these guys are overstepping bounds and just being assholes, but having worked on big construction jobs as well, let me suggest this: somewhere between the person who originally made the offer, and the person who delivered the check, there was a breakdown in communications that left someone thinking that permission HAD been obtained and all that was needed was to deliver the check. Think that's crazy? You haven't seen some of the shit-show jobs I've been on where nobody fully knew what anyone else was doing. Yes, believe it or else, it IS POSSIBLE that the people on the ground there may actually have proceeded in good faith that all had been resolved and permission obtained by those above them.

Now, everything else aside, at this point, I'd say OP's parents have basically sealed the deal for themselves by cashing the check. I'm not a contract lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this would be considered as them agreeing to and accepting the construction company's offer. Giving it back now wouldn't mean shit. If they'd held onto the check, or taken it back, they might have room to move, but as it stands, all it looks like is that they've accepted an offer, changed their minds, and are now trying to go back on an agreement... or worse, extort more money from the contractor.

They can complain to the city, the RCMP, or whoever they want, but I have a feeling everyone is going to see it the way I laid it out above. Their best course at this point is just to live with it and enjoy their fresh grass and new fence once it's all done.

[iwantaskyline]

Okay kids, let's have a little dose of reality here.

First of all, OP, WHY did your parents deny the company permission to chop into their yard a little? Were they intentionally trying to be difficult and un-neighbourly? Or did they somehow get the idea that the company was planning to permanently TAKE OVER that little strip of land? Or was there something really special about that bit of land? Indian burial ground or something?

Second, OP, did these guys actually build a permanent fence, or is it a temporary construction fence? My money is on the latter.

So here's what happens on a development like you're talking about: they don't just make a hole in the middle of the property and drop a building in it. They need to dig it up right to the property line to address slopes, install drainage, and ultimately, re-landscape the entire plot. And probably put up a better, newer fence than was there before.

They COULD possibly dig right up to the property line and stop, but that would make proper landscaping tricky, and depending on how close they're building to that line, likely not leave enough room for heavy equipment to move around the building. Zoom-booms and the like would probably have to cross the fenceline and tear up the grass on the other side of the property line, so what's the best way to do it? Take down the old fence, dig a bit over a the line, and then fix it all nice and pretty afterward. A temporary fence is required for safety and security reasons to keep people out of the site.

So about the workers coming in, dropping off a check, and digging up the ground, I know the RS default is to jump straight to the position that these guys are overstepping bounds and just being assholes, but having worked on big construction jobs as well, let me suggest this: somewhere between the person who originally made the offer, and the person who delivered the check, there was a breakdown in communications that left someone thinking that permission HAD been obtained and all that was needed was to deliver the check. Think that's crazy? You haven't seen some of the shit-show jobs I've been on where nobody fully knew what anyone else was doing. Yes, believe it or else, it IS POSSIBLE that the people on the ground there may actually have proceeded in good faith that all had been resolved and permission obtained by those above them.

Now, everything else aside, at this point, I'd say OP's parents have basically sealed the deal for themselves by cashing the check. I'm not a contract lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this would be considered as them agreeing to and accepting the construction company's offer. Giving it back now wouldn't mean shit. If they'd held onto the check, or taken it back, they might have room to move, but as it stands, all it looks like is that they've accepted an offer, changed their minds, and are now trying to go back on an agreement... or worse, extort more money from the contractor.

They can complain to the city, the RCMP, or whoever they want, but I have a feeling everyone is going to see it the way I laid it out above. Their best course at this point is just to live with it and enjoy their fresh grass and new fence once it's all done.

It was me who denied them permission initially. I already stated why...If they were up front in the beginning instead of sending a letter that made it seem like it was from the city I would have approached the situation a bit different. It seemed to me they were trying to take advantage of my parents lack of english.

Not only that..one of the guys from the company later called me since and tried to negotiate a deal, I won't get into details but I was a bit insulted. He probably thought I was young and gave me an offer to compensate $100 to use our land for half a year approximately. Bit of a joke to me really, as it's a fair size of land. This is why the $500 cheque drop off is no "miscommunication" within their company, they took a chance my parents would deposit it. My parents even asked them straight up what is this for, the guy clearly stated "Oh just for being good neighbours and apologies for the noise". Unfortunately I was away so they told me afterwards..they thinking nothing was signed in paper it was fine...

About the property line thing...as already stated, if it was not our land why would they ask for permission to work on it for a few months in the first place if it wasn't technically ours..Yes it is a temporary fence they put up, I am not worried about them constructing anything permanently over into our property.

I don't need any headaches so I am probably going to just live with it. I already understand there's not much to do due to the cheque. One of the guys at the company is going to call me back tomorrow so we'll see how it goes.

[poopyiii]

While silence cannot be considered acceptance, unless accounted for beforehand, the exception is that when the offeree conducts themselves in a manner that would lead a reasonable person to believe that they had agreed, such as accepting the cheque, and depositing it.

Yes, I totally agree the implied action makes it binding. However, there was ambiguity with the statement: "thanks for being good neighbours and dealing with the noise". Ambiguity lies within "being good neighbours"- what does it imply? Also, the parents's limited understanding of English language makes it a misrepresentation/mistake for not truly understanding the implied message. This makes the binding contract less enforceable; especially with previous actions to support the decline of offer from the offeror.

The company will never lawyer up or go to court for this situation, even if you challenge them (as long as you are right). It is not financially worth it for you and them, but they might try to be aggressive and threaten with legal stuff. Just try to be reasonable and negotiate with the company.

[Selanne_200]

Yes it could be used in the argument against the contractors but that was only heard between your parents and the person who dropped off the cheque. It would then be up to the adjudicator to decide which is more "believable", 500 bucks for mere noise because they're working behind the house, or to use some section of the lot for a period of time, and I'm buying the latter.
Op is doing the right thing by just letting it rest since the deposit of the cheque pretty much sealed the deal and to fight it would mean spending money on what's just a temporary nuisance anyways. Take it as a lesson learned in that there is no free lunch in this world.

[underscore]

Since it's a temp fence I wouldn't be overly worried about it, although the company does sound shady. I'd be more concerned with what they do in the end, be sure they rebuild the fence in the right spot and don't fuck anything up.