[Acura604]

Pete McMartin: The Portland Hotel Society -- Oh. My. God. (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Pete+McMartin+Portland+Hotel+Society/9643285/story.html)

I don’t know where to start.

There’s just so much that jumps out at you that’s egregious, hilariously improbable and, in the context of a social welfare agency the efforts of which should be entirely concentrated on the poor and marginalized, obscene.

Almost $9,000 in limousine charges. In one year.

Stays at the best hotel rooms — some of them approaching $900 a night — in Paris, Istanbul, Ottawa, Vienna, Los Angeles, New York City. (Personally, I can’t afford to stay at the Plaza.)

Almost $70,000 in restaurant bills! Charges for flowers! A trip to freaking Disneyland! A $900 baby shower! A $7,024.72 Celebration of Life for a deceased employee! Monthly expenses of $1,600 charged by the executive directors for use of office space within their personal residence! I am running out of exclamation marks and italics and I’m beginning to hyperventilate!

Appalling. Indefensible. And all of it conducted within a corporate culture where the accounting was seemingly written on a napkin. The audit and financial review of the Portland Housing Society by Vancouver Coastal Health and BC Housing make for the best reading of the year, if you like horror stories.

For instance:

“We found no evidence that the PHS Board is monitoring or authorizing PHS executive management expenses and payroll advance.”

Or:

“We also identified approximately $9,600 in apparent cash advances over the three-year period of our review for which we were unable to obtain any supporting receipts and documentation.”

Or:

“We found there to be insufficient recognition of the risks, potential contractual issues, governance and oversight considerations associated with the various non-arms length relationships that exist with the Affiliates (of the Portland Hotel Society) and other organizations.”

Or:

“In numerous instances, interviewees seemed unwilling to provide details (attendees, dates of travel) regarding expenses and other matters they believed were unrelated to the operation of BC Housing funded buildings.”

It goes on. And on. I could fill up the paper with quotes that inspire reactions ranging from mildly eye-raising to you-have-got-to-be-effing-kidding-me.

The shame of it is, the PHS hasn’t just destroyed its own reputation — which is a pity in some respects because even the auditors allowed that its work was often exceptional — but it has put into question the government’s entire system of the contracting out of work to the province’s other taxpayer-funded social welfare projects, some 700 in total.

If the province’s largest and most visible such agency can botch its bookkeeping so badly, then what of the others, most of which haven’t the organizational resources at their disposal that the Portland Hotel Society did?

Further, it casts doubt, and maybe lasting damage, on the experiment in social engineering in the Downtown Eastside that our three levels of government have been conducting for the last several decades.

Tax dollars were funding baby showers as well as social housing? Were the babies minding the cash box? The PHS just confirmed every smirking comment ever made by critics carping about poverty pimps and the poverty industry.

Finally, where was the government all this time?



and of course, don't forget about that Jenny Kwan whore:

New Democrat MLA Jenny Kwan under fire for $2,695 trip paid for by the Portland Hotel Society (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Democrat+Jenny+Kwan+under+fire+trip+paid+Portland+ Hotel/9642894/story.html)

VICTORIA — New Democrat MLA Jenny Kwan and her family received a $2,695 trip to Disneyland — as well as a second trip to Europe — paid for by the Vancouver charity at the centre of a scathing government audit Thursday.

The Disneyland trip was one of many questionable expenses by the Portland Hotel Society highlighted by government auditors, which forced the resignation of the society’s senior managers and its board of directors.

Among those dismissed was Dan Small, Kwan’s ex-husband, who was the society’s director of policy research and funding development since 1998.

Kwan, Small and two children took the trip to Disneyland in May 2012, as well as a second trip believed to be in Europe that same year.

Kwan did not respond to an interview request.

However, in a statement, the MLA for Vancouver Mount Pleasant said she was “concerned” to see the expenses released Thursday in government audits.

“Together with my family, I did join my husband — who was an employee of PHA — on two trips in 2012,” she said.

“I was assured at the time by my former partner that he paid out of his pocket for the family-portion of the travel expenses.

“I never would have gone had I known that the family portion of the travel would appear to have been be paid for by PHS.

“I trust that my former partner will address the findings and take appropriate action to ensure that the PHS is reimbursed for any expenses related to family travel.

“And if he doesn’t, then I will.”

Kwan and Small separated last year.

Government auditors said the Disney stay included a hotel room at the Disney hotel in Anaheim, which was upgraded to accommodate a staff member in poor health. Small has a heart condition.

Townsend said the trip was a way to show appreciation for Small’s hard work because the society doesn’t offer benefits like long-term disability.

“For us, this was something we were doing for a staff person in lieu of overtime and health benefits,” said Townsend.

“I don’t want to go into the individual details of all these things, but it fits into the fact we do not have long-term disability.”

Kwan has been the MLA for Vancouver Mount Pleasant since 1996 and has had close ties to the Portland Hotel Society as well as several of its current and former employees.

The government audit highlighted the Disneyland trip, as well as other trips to the United Kingdom and Austria, as questionable expenses, and said there were no financial controls in place to ensure the travel was for legitimate business reasons.

An audit by Vancouver Coastal Health, which provides PHS $8.3 million a year for funding programs and services, noted the “seeming lack of regard for adequate controls to ensure funds are spent in an economical and efficient manner are concerning.”

The society received $28.6 million in money from government sources in 2013.

However, it’s unclear if the taxpayers paid for Kwan’s trip.

Former PHS executive director Marc Townsend argued “the majority” of trips mentioned in the audit would be paid for using “private and non-government funding.”

But the health authority audit pointed to a “lack of clarity over administrative expenses” and said it’s difficult to know what expenses were paid using what money because funding was pooled and spent, in many cases without proper documentation.

[4444]

disgusting.

not for profits, government, bunch of fucktards who take for themselves.

sadly there are always some who ruin it for the rest (there are so many good NPOs) - but i've found that the general attitude in gov/NPOs is one of waste and inefficiency (i, myself, have audited gov/NPOs in my articling days)

shut it down, shut them all down - fuck the lazy overpaid government workers and lower taxes.

[Mr.HappySilp]

And what happen to them? They resign and nothing happen! and they get off the hook without paying a penny back. The gov should go after them for every single penny plus interest!

[Klobbersaurus]

And what happen to them? They resign and nothing happen! and they get off the hook without paying a penny back. The gov should go after them for every single penny plus interest!

and they get severance, marc townsend looks like a user himself

[Hondaracer]

The whole government structure gets my blood boiling. If this was a privately run organization half the fucking MP's and MLA's would be going to fucking jail.

Hell, even in Montreal a priest is going to jail for a year for scamming the constituents out of 100k over 3 or 4 years. So the church is vulnerable but the fucking scum in the government are not?

And fuck Jenny Kwan and all these other officials who have a big crying show to the media when it's discovered, yea your fucking crying now and wanting to pay it back BECAUSE YOU GOT CAUGHT. You didn't know where these expenses were coming from when your HUSBAND was paying?

Fuck the government and fuck the crooks employed
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[multicartual]

Ball 'til you fall, MLAs!!!

[7seven]

Government inefficiency and waste is a huge problem, but the Portland Housing Society is a private not for profit organization that receives government grants (via taxpayer dollars) and has a number of contracts with government departments such as BC Housing, that is why they were subject to a government initiated audit. This is the same group that runs Insite, the safe inject site.

These not for profits receiving grants from the government are a huge problem, I've personally witnessed management and executives of a number of these not for profits rack up crazy bills on their societies tabs at bars and restaurants. Just spend a weekend out and about in Yaletown and you'll see it too.

[white rocket]

Taxpayers hard earned dollars at work again :rukidding:

[twitchyzero]

reminds me of a local professor who embezzled millions from donations/grants into renovating his west-end house that was supposed to support overseas outreach health initiative

also flew first class to vietnam for said initiative lol

After hearing that story and reading this thread now i'm skeptical of so many NPOs being a front

[Infiniti]

While I understand the obvious displeasure being voiced about the misappropriation of funds, namely those spent on superfluous purchases by an organization whose mandate is to provide services to a vulnerable and impoverished segment of society , I would argue that a reactionary response to this is unnecessary and could potentially unravel much of the progress that has been made by this organization.
Clearly, the policies and regulations that determine how funds are managed at PHS must be placed under review and the management team reprimanded in a proportioned manner.

[godwin]

It is just bad governance and transparency to let any employee to expense their own pleasure items on society budget. IT IS LEGAL if can proven for society benefit but just BAD OPTICS! However it has been going on for a while.

The government in general give societies and non profits long enough rope they can tie a noose to hang themselves. In this case, Jenny Kwan's thing came out when NDP leadership race is just about to happen can't be a coincidence. In the end, it is the society's and related personnel's fault. I have a feeling a lot of people know all along and was just waiting the right moment to let it ou.

I find it hilarious that the founder kept saying it is administrative cost that was no gov's money was misspent; Basically he is alienating the society's pool of future donors and fundraising efforts. I am not sure if it is intentional so he can torpedo the group he is forced to leave so he can start a new one.

DTES has turn into a lucrative business for a few people with very little training. Case workers that get paid for $20+/hour the only qualification you just have to be there. Mr. and Mrs. Townsend get 300k+ / year. One aspect of this it is absolutely crap job that not many people wants to do. I am pretty sure majority of people on Revscene don't want to deal with drug addicted people day in and out, so wages for those jobs are pretty high. Much like garbage pickup and longshoremen, someone have to do the job.

It is just an example a group of people who got in way over their heads and too dumb to realize it. The group was start adhoc with shoe string budget and when the money start rolling in they just don't know how to deal with it.

[white rocket]

It is just an example a group of people who got in way over their heads and too dumb to realize it. The group was start adhoc with shoe string budget and when the money start rolling in they just don't know how to deal with it.

Holy fuck! Look at all this money were making!!!! We're going to Disneyland ma'fuckas. Pass the Grey Poupon! Here's some Dom to quench your thirst. Oh shit, that was for the people we were supposed to be helping? Oh shit, well I'm sorry, let me cry about it and offer to pay it back.

Not poking fun at you godwin, just reacting to the specific quote.

[godwin]

Believe it or not, that's what a lot of people who had worked minimum wage jobs see jobs at places like Portland Hotel Society. Finally their liberal arts degree pay a few times more than their original jobs at the coffee shop.

In the past, we had church run charities that promised richness after life to the staff. These days we have different set of people providing the same services who have more immediate desires and bills to pay (oh don't forget families to raise). So you get quite a bureaucracy and management on top of these organizations. More than a few people on this board don't like faith based organizations playing a role in society, but honestly these shoulder more cost than we pay them, we should be thankful and hoping for more, if the aim is to cut cost.

Honestly as a society we chose not to have institutions like Riverview or New West and dumped people in DTES hoping for short term savings, in the end, we are pay more for these societies to work inefficiently, encourage drug use and not to mention depressed real estate values in the DTES. I think as tax payer we are paying 80k / head for services?

Holy fuck! Look at all this money were making!!!! We're going to Disneyland ma'fuckas. Pass the Grey Poupon! Here's some Dom to quench your thirst. Oh shit, that was for the people we were supposed to be helping? Oh shit, well I'm sorry, let me cry about it and offer to pay it back.

Not poking fun at you godwin, just reacting to the specific quote.

[white rocket]

The word "charity" is thrown around so much nowadays that it doesn't hold much weight with me. When people phone my work asking for donations I have all sorts of fun with them. If I really wanted to "make a difference" I would volunteer at a soup kitchen in the DTES, walk a dog at the SPCA, etc. Devoting your time is much more effective to ensure that your work is going to the right person. Throwing money at a problem is getting the fat cats behind the cause rich as fuck. That doesn't sit well with me at all. Charity? pfst! my fuckin' ass.

[Mr.HappySilp]

It is just bad governance and transparency to let any employee to expense their own pleasure items on society budget. IT IS LEGAL if can proven for society benefit but just BAD OPTICS! However it has been going on for a while.

The government in general give societies and non profits long enough rope they can tie a noose to hang themselves. In this case, Jenny Kwan's thing came out when NDP leadership race is just about to happen can't be a coincidence. In the end, it is the society's and related personnel's fault. I have a feeling a lot of people know all along and was just waiting the right moment to let it out.

I find it hilarious that the founder kept saying it is administrative cost that was no gov's money was misspent; Basically he is alienating the society's pool of future donors and fundraising efforts. I am not sure if it is intentional so he can torpedo the group he is forced to leave so he can start a new one.

DTES has turn into a lucrative business for a few people with very little training. Case workers that get paid for $20+/hour the only qualification you just have to be there. Mr. and Mrs. Townsend get 300k+ / year. One aspect of this it is absolutely crap job that not many people wants to do. I am pretty sure majority of people on Revscene don't want to deal with drug addicted people day in and out, so wages for those jobs are pretty high. Much like garbage pickup and longshoremen, someone have to do the job.

It is just an example a group of people who got in way over their heads and too dumb to realize it. The group was start adhoc with shoe string budget and when the money start rolling in they just don't know how to deal with it.

If given the chance I wouldn't mind getting one of those jobs.

[godwin]

In all honestly, you need both to be effective. Does an audit on a 30million / year non profit like PHS be cheaper than a 30miiion / year company?

Say your soup kitchen, you still need administrators and coordinators to deal with the soup and facilities etc. In the past, the catholic nuns do that, but now you have to pay someone to do it for you.

The problem withe PHS, is the people on the top are not the brightest, or so megalomaniacal to think that audits won't come out.

The word "charity" is thrown around so much nowadays that it doesn't hold much weight with me. When people phone my work asking for donations I have all sorts of fun with them. If I really wanted to "make a difference" I would volunteer at a soup kitchen in the DTES, walk a dog at the SPCA, etc. Devoting your time is much more effective to ensure that your work is going to the right person. Throwing money at a problem is getting the fat cats behind the cause rich as fuck. That doesn't sit well with me at all. Charity? pfst! my fuckin' ass.

[godwin]

Get your resume to all the DTES places eg PHS, More than a Roof, Coast foundation or Convenant House and apply for Mental Health Support worker or any Support worker. Unlike longshoreman you do need to pass criminal record check. However they do have quite a long waiting list for these jobs.

Just note: You are often dealing with people who are just not rational, what some would called attention consumers after living on the streets in a dog in dog world.

If given the chance I wouldn't mind getting one of those jobs.

[Acura604]

Meanwhile, the owners of Vancouver’s finest restaurants are mourning the loss of some of their best customers.

According to the audits, the Portland Hotel Society’s four top executives — including Kwan’s estranged husband — racked up $69,000 in restaurant bills in just three years.

The restaurants included: Gotham Steakhouse, Bishop’s, Tojo’s, The Fish House at Stanley Park, The Blue Water Cafe and Raw Bar, Le Crocodile, Top of Vancouver Revolving Restaurant, Hawksworth Restaurant, West Restaurant, Rodney’s Oyster House, C Restaurant, Chambar, Jules, Bao Bei Chinese Brasserie and MARKET by Jean-Georges at the Shangri-La Hotel.

[rsx]

it'd be nice to see them strung up by their feet and have their throats cut

[Harvey Specter]

Jenny Kwan crying was hilarious. She's crying because she got caught and her political career is over, otherwise she could give a rats ass about wasting taxpayers money.

And I stop giving money to charities, I'd rather buy an item or a meal because I know the $10 I give a particular charity will never make it to the people who need it. Maybe a $1 out of the $10 I give will actual go to the people who need help.

[Hondaracer]

I'll occasionally donate to canucks for kids, children's hospital, or things that I'm actually participating in or have friends in like the underwear affair, ride to conquer cancer, etc

Donating money to some faceless corporation, the government, or charities abroad? Lol, yea right
Posted via RS Mobile

[4444]

it'd be nice to see them strung up by their feet and have their throats cut

wow, i didn't know we had the Taliban in Vancouver?!

[RRxtar]

I'll occasionally donate to canucks for kids, children's hospital, or things that I'm actually participating in or have friends in like the underwear affair, ride to conquer cancer, etc

Donating money to some faceless corporation, the government, or charities abroad? Lol, yea right
Posted via RS Mobile
Thats the thing tho, people will donate to causes they feel connected to, regardless of how those charities rate.

The BC childrens hopsital foundation has a D rating.

The 2013 Charity 100 Grades - MoneySense (http://www.moneysense.ca/the-2013-charity-100-grades)

And one of the most supported charities is the SPCA because people love furry cuddly things, even when there are a thousand other underfunded charities supporting real suffering people.


There are several smaller organizations out there doing things differently than simply asking you to donate your money to a faceless organization with no transparency. ChangeHeroes is a good example of that. You do the fund raising yourself to build a school in Africa/Haiti/etc and you can see exactly where your money goes, and they put your name on the school when its built, and the kids send you thank you mail.

[Hondaracer]

Yea my GF's friend was part of somthing similar. She went over and basically for every dollar you donate that provides X amount of clay bricks, she brings the money over herself, buys the bricks and builds homes/schools

There's never been a time more than ever before than to be speculative about where your money is going.
Posted via RS Mobile

[white rocket]

I'm an SPCA guy because I love furry cuddly things and I donate quite a bit each year through my business. I would consider this the most "faceless" charity I deal with.

This is my bro-in-law's charity: http://www.bokeodevelopmentfund.org/ - After traveling to Laos and seeing this organization at work(and also helping) I was really impressed at how far $1 CAD can go. It was an amazing experience for me and it gives some serious perspective on that part of the world compared to where and how we're living here. Despite very poor living conditions they are the happiest people I've ever met. Very humble and very appreciative of every little thing in their lives.

In a world of corporate faceless-type charities it's the grassroots ones that really stand out for me.

[Tapioca]

We scream murder and call these people scumbags, but we should have some perspective here. There are many people here who grew up in the confines of suburbia and somehow think that the people in the DTES deserve their fate because of poor choices, poor parenting, etc. What's sad is that because of the actions of a few, the media and popular opinion will turn against places like inSite which do provide a service that benefits the cmmunity. As godwin mentioned, you take away places like inSite, people will still be shooting up drugs, but instead in the open. People will of course throw up silly solutions like throwing everyone in work camps, or in mandatory rehab, but those types of solutions require massive amounts of money and probably wouldn't be legally defensible.

There's no free lunch when it comes to doing something about the DTES.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Jmac]

The only charity I give money to is the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation (as I have Crohn's and two of my friends have Colitis and I'd love to not have to take 1-2 years off work every 5-10 years and not have the -15 years average life expectancy associated with it.)

Aside from that, I volunteer my time (i.e. delivering flowers for the MS Society, cooking hot dogs for the special olympics, etc.)

I've seen way too many NPOs walk into my former place of employment at the end of their fiscal year and drop $30k on shit they even admitted they didn't need just so that they could use up the rest of their budget (as their budget would be cut, otherwise).

Just pissed me off to see that, but you can't say anything about it without risking your job.

[corollagtSr5]

Don't people donate to charities because it's tax deductible?

[sonick]

Jenny Kwan crying was hilarious. She's crying because she got caught and her political career is over, otherwise she could give a rats ass about wasting taxpayers money.

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, it's been reported that it was her ex husband that paid for everything, and since they have separate bank accounts she really had no idea where the money was coming from.

The one thing I wonder about is where her ex husband is in all of this? We see Jenny Kwan crying, yet nothing from the guy who supposedly spent the money. Did he died?

[Hakkaboy]

Jenny Kwan crying was hilarious. She's crying because she got caught and her political career is over, otherwise she could give a rats ass about wasting taxpayers money.

And I stop giving money to charities, I'd rather buy an item or a meal because I know the $10 I give a particular charity will never make it to the people who need it. Maybe a $1 out of the $10 I give will actual go to the people who need help.

Here is a breakdown of the $34,000 that Jenny Kwan said she will pay back

A breakdown of the expenses Kwan believes she owes:

$8,323.22 – travel to UK
$3,175.12 – travel to Bristol
$5,950.60 – flights
$4,142.68 – Vienna
$2,694.95 – Disney hotel upgrade



Must be NDP math. Wonder what the other 10K is for?

Source: http://www.news1130.com/2014/03/21/jenny-kwan-vows-to-pay-back-34000-taking-leave-of-absence/

[kcl38]

Did a project in the DTES last term with an organization that had a group of coordinators (paid) and ran itself off volunteers (mostly homeless). They received funding to hire 3 of their volunteers for part time and picked their 3 most hard working people.

By the time I finished my project the 3 people had stopped being paid because their funding 'ran out' even though it was supposed to be set aside for nothing but paying them. These people were working nearly full time and got shafted. The coordinators just shrugged and said 'shit happens'. Was fucked up.

[Tone Loc]

ChangeHeroes is a good example of that. You do the fund raising yourself to build a school in Africa/Haiti/etc and you can see exactly where your money goes, and they put your name on the school when its built, and the kids send you thank you mail.

Time to make a Revscene Academy lol

[Hondaracer]

Giving her the benefit of the doubt, it's been reported that it was her ex husband that paid for everything, and since they have separate bank accounts she really had no idea where the money was coming from.

The one thing I wonder about is where her ex husband is in all of this? We see Jenny Kwan crying, yet nothing from the guy who supposedly spent the money. Did he died?

First part is BS. Husband doesn't spend 34k travelling and Somone apparently "smart" like Kwan is just oblivious to it.

Second part, he's receiving a nice severance package.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Acura604]

...and in other somewhat related news. Seriously, this is just tip of iceberg.

Legislature speaker Linda Reid admits taxpayers paid for hubby’s trip to South Africa, refunds more than $5,500

VICTORIA — Linda Reid, the speaker of the B.C. legislature, apologized Tuesday for taking her husband with her on a parliamentary trip to South Africa and refunded $5,528.16 to taxpayers.

“If this caused anyone any consternation, I sincerely apologize,” Reid said, adding the amount represented the cost of her husband’s taxpayer-financed flight to South Africa last year.

Reid, the long-serving Liberal MLA for Richmond East, said her husband, Sheldon Friesen, went with her to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference as part of a long-standing tradition of spousal trips at the legislature.

“It’s definitely past practice,” she said. “Practice has changed. Practice needs to evolve. We need to refine as we go forward, and I’m happy to lead on changing.”

She announced the refund a few hours after news of the taxpayer-financed trip broke in the media.

Reid attended the conference in South Africa from Aug. 28 to Sept. 6, 2013. She tweeted a picture of Friesen petting a giraffe during the trip with the caption: “My husband making new friends,” and another picture of herself petting lion cubs, tweeting that it was “an amazing experience.”

Reid said an all-party finance audit committee at the legislature now is discussing whether to change a policy that allowed spouses to accompany parliamentarians on business trips.

“I will not be having my spouse paid for by anyone other than he or I, and certainly I’m taking that back to finance audit,” she said. “Changing course on practice is tough work, but we’ll get there.”

Reid said the assistant deputy speaker, New Democrat MLA Raj Chouhan, was on the same trip and also took his wife along, but she wouldn’t comment on whether Chouhan should refund money to taxpayers, too.

“Honourable members will make their own choices as they go forward,” Reid said.

But Shane Simpson, the NDP house leader, said Reid had earlier informed Chouhan that it was OK for him to bring his wife along at taxpayers’ expense.

“At the outset of the trip, when it was first planned, he (Chouhan) made the offer to pay his spouse’s travel there and was told (by Reid) that spousal travel was a legitimate part of this and that wasn’t necessary,” Simpson said.

Now that Reid has refunded the cost of her husband’s airfare, Chouhan will likely have another talk with Reid about what to do, Simpson added. He said Chouhan and his wife flew economy class and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express in Johannesburg at a total cost of about $6,300.

Reid came under fire at the legislature recently for several expensive upgrades, including a $48,000 computer console in the legislative chamber, $14,000 for new curtains, $13,449 for a new MLA TV lounge and a $733 snack rack to hold free muffins for MLAs.

[dvst8]

Every level of gov. should be audited. Tired of hearing this bullshit.

[nah]

Fuck all these assholes...

Apologizing when they get caught? If I misrepresented my expenses at my job, I'd probably get fired. We as tax payers should have the same right to fire these asshats we put in power.

[Tapioca]

Every level of gov. should be audited. Tired of hearing this bullshit.

And you have to hire more public servants, or hire one of the big-4 firms to perform the audits, which costs more money.

These MLAs should face discipline, but you know what happens when you audit everything? Paralysis and more red tape. Where do you draw the line?

Apologizing when they get caught? If I misrepresented my expenses at my job, I'd probably get fired. We as tax payers should have the same right to fire these asshats we put in power.

You can... at election time.

[Anjew]

cost more money than what? the amount wasted? We dont even know the amount wasted so it would make sense to do an audit.

[iEatClams]

Jenny Kwan crying was hilarious. She's crying because she got caught and her political career is over, otherwise she could give a rats ass about wasting taxpayers money.

And I stop giving money to charities, I'd rather buy an item or a meal because I know the $10 I give a particular charity will never make it to the people who need it. Maybe a $1 out of the $10 I give will actual go to the people who need help.

I understand everyone's rational for not donating. But there are many people in need, and many legitimate causes that actually need or require funding, and us not donating to them is not the answer.


I'm just pissed because I came from a VERY poor family and some of these social programs did help us out tremendously and I wouldn't be as successful or better off as a person if weren't for some of these charities. These scandals prevent people from donating to well run or legitimate organizations and in the end, only hurt the people who need it the most. FUCK IM PISSED>

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I just wish there is a better way to help those in need, and I'm sure none of us would be oppose to that.

[Eff-1]

The one thing I wonder about is where her ex husband is in all of this?

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj277/anaisjude/monorail.jpg

[nah]

And you have to hire more public servants, or hire one of the big-4 firms to perform the audits, which costs more money.

These MLAs should face discipline, but you know what happens when you audit everything? Paralysis and more red tape. Where do you draw the line?



You can... at election time.

Not soon enough, especially in a case where they just got elected. Remember someone named Gordon Campbell when he lied about HST during the election and we had no powers to remove him from office until the next election 3 years later? Fortunately for his party, he stepped down.

[4444]

Don't people donate to charities because it's tax deductible?

what a cynical view on the world you have. people donate because they want to help. The tax credit, which is not great by any means, is a secondary benefit

If donations are a major part of your tax planning, you're doing it wrong.

I donate a lot of money to cancer research because it is something that has touched me personally. Whether there was a tax benefit or not would not change my actions.

[4444]

i really would like to see the people of BC stand up and demand change - demand everyone involved be fired without any severance package - i don't care that their employment contract states certain severance, these people acted in bad faith and i would question whether they acted fraudulently - additionally, if you get fired, i assume you wouldn't get the severance package, so why aren't we firing these people rather than letting them resign?

One huge thing i noticed when moving to Canada from the UK, people in the UK are whiney bitches (me inclusive), but damn it, if something isn't right, we stand up and bitch and whine until it is changed - not so much anymore becuase the UK has changed a lot (become a nanny state to immigrants and lazy people - but that's a different story), in the 80's and early 90's, if something wasn't right, groups stood up, made a noise, forced change - we don't do that in Canada, look at Gordo and the BC liberals, the HST debacle - they got away with it, they lied, they're scum, but they got away with it scott free.

fuck that - fuck all of it, time for change people, time for more transparency, time for accountability - time for smaller government! i wish people would stand up as a group and demand this. The system in the western world is broken, no question about it.

[Gumby]

^
We're too busy working to pay off our mortgages to stand up and demand for change. :troll:

[godwin]

Donations to charities are tax deductible but not as much as you think. The most refund you can get back is not donating to non profits but to political parties.

In Canada, we just had good laws but no one to enforce them due to cuts and politicians.. it is not just in non profit, but air, water and resources (like oil and wildlife etc) and even health (the Ebola case eg there is no monitoring, same for Rabies, take not pet lovers). People who are pointing to one or 2 high profile cases are missing the big picture, it is a systematic issue.

The fact is less government means more inefficiencies because you need more organizations to get involved as outside contractors (each with their good intentions but bag of inefficiencies). But honestly it is also a product of all the schools requiring "volunteer" hours for graduation, there is just not enough volunteer opportunities, so people have to make up things like Unicorn conservation or BS like that. Everyone in society has a bit of their appendages in the trough. All these non profits are contractors running social services for society as a whole vs in the past the government. The only way to attract the non profits' existence is let them run as enterprises and to have certain descretions, so if people are megalomaniacs or have balls as big as the moon they will eventually get caught. As long as you are providing a service (eg recycling) and it involves disenfranchised segment of society, you are set.

There are plenty of "non profits" running around. Ever notice the bins you dump you clothes for "charity"? They have been proliferating like mushrooms the last few years. Why? Anyone with a white panel truck can form a non profit, servicing drop offs like that and get paid low 6 figures as an "executive". A lot of people on this board don't seem to understand the business angle of non profits. There are so many loopholes, anyone with mild business acumen can live well off and I dare say afford a house (on a lot) in Vancouver as their "career".

I am surprised no one at Revscene form a non profit..

Don't people donate to charities because it's tax deductible?

[Tapioca]

fuck that - fuck all of it, time for change people, time for more transparency, time for accountability - time for smaller government! i wish people would stand up as a group and demand this. The system in the western world is broken, no question about it.

Smaller government only works if people ask less of the government. You might because you believe that you're in control of things, but there are lots of things that government is involved in that people are unwilling to reduce their dependence on. Self-reliance only gets you so far, unless you envision a Hobbesian existence.

Accountability and transparency are buzzwords that get thrown around with little context. If you want more transparency, then you need more people to monitor things. More people costs more money and increases red tape. There will always be bad apples, but if you audit everything to death, you risk paralysis. People want governments to be run like businesses - well, let the bureaucrats do their work instead of asking them to fill out 10 pieces of paper and have 5 managers' approvals for every expense report.
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[Noir]

Smaller government only works if people ask less of the government. You might because you believe that you're in control of things, but there are lots of things that government is involved in that people are unwilling to reduce their dependence on. Self-reliance only gets you so far, unless you envision a Hobbesian existence.

Accountability and transparency are buzzwords that get thrown around with little context. If you want more transparency, then you need more people to monitor things. More people costs more money and increases red tape. There will always be bad apples, but if you audit everything to death, you risk paralysis. People want governments to be run like businesses - well, let the bureaucrats do their work instead of asking them to fill out 10 pieces of paper and have 5 managers' approvals for every expense report.
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Well, good point.

But at least when something like this happens, let there be significant consequences. I'd love for there to be criminal consquences, more than your average thief as these people were entrusted with "the people's" money; not just another sweep under the rug, she'll probably get fired, and move onto the next media sensation.

[godwin]

The thing is her husband did nothing illegal with the public facts as of today. It is horrible optics from fund raising perspective, as long as the $$ claimed came from administrative funds and they didn't touch the money the gov funneled to them, they are in the clear. As I had said non profits, can be very "enriching" and have loopholes you can drive a few semis through, if you are smart about it or you don't let your ego get too big. Entitled yes.. illegal most likely not.

You know it is a goldmine when there are MBA degrees that specialize in them.


Well, good point.

But at least when something like this happens, let there be significant consequences. I'd love for there to be criminal consquences, more than your average thief as these people were entrusted with "the people's" money; not just another sweep under the rug, she'll probably get fired, and move onto the next media sensation.

[Acura604]

Smyth: B.C.?s pay-when-caught system needs to end (http://www.theprovince.com/touch/news/bc/Smyth+when+caught+system+needs/9665806/story.html?rel=838332)

It was another day, another refund, and another reason for B.C. taxpayers to sum up their frustration in three words:

Enough is enough.

Enough of politicians gouging taxpayers with expensive perks and payoffs. Enough of the loopholes that keep their lavish spending secret. And enough of the worn-out excuses for their slow-to-change ways.

On Wednesday, Raj Chouhan, the NDP MLA for Burnaby-Edmonds, became the latest politician to cut a cheque to taxpayers for questionable personal spending.

Chouhan, the deputy Speaker of the legislature, refunded $2,200 to cover the cost of his wife’s taxpayer-financed trip to South Africa last year.

Chouhan’s wife accompanied him to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference in Johannesburg — the same conference attended by Speaker Linda Reid and her husband.

On Tuesday, Reid refunded more than $5,500 to taxpayers for her hubby’s trip.

Those embarrassments followed last week’s announcement by NDP MLA Jenny Kwan that she was repaying nearly $35,000 for family trips to Disneyland and Europe paid for by a government-contracted society in her Downtown Eastside riding.

One after another, veteran MLAs have been forced to apologize and pay the public back.

But there’s always an excuse.

Reid explained her husband-and-wife junket to Africa — the happy couple posted online snapshots of themselves petting giraffes and lion cubs — was nothing new.

“It’s what this place has always done,” she said.

And that’s the problem. Politicians are stuck in an outmoded and discredited system of entitlements, while people in the real world struggle to make ends meet.

“This buy-now-pay-when-caught routine needs to come to an end,” said Dermod Travis of the accountability group Integrity B.C.

But Reid has preferred to ride the gravy train, rather than derail it.

She became Speaker just nine months ago and promised to open up the legislature’s secretive system of MLA spending and privilege.

But when it came time for the annual parliamentary boondoggle to some sunny Commonwealth clime, she didn’t hesitate to stick taxpayers with the cost of her husband’s business-class plane ticket.

And Chouhan said that when he volunteered to pay his wife’s way to the event, Reid assured him it wasn’t necessary. He said Reid even told him as late as Tuesday night that he didn’t have to pay the money back.

“I thought I did everything right,” Chouhan said. “I asked the Speaker how it should be done. Now I feel part of something I should not be.”

Exactly. Now he’s sorry. So is Reid. But why didn’t they feel that way until the expenses were exposed?

“Reid is only paying it back because she got caught,” Jordan Bateman, of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, sums up bluntly.

“Other Speakers have simply done whatever they wanted, with little scrutiny.”

That’s because spending at the legislature traditionally has been kept secret and officially shielded from the Freedom of Information Act — something Bateman wants changed.

“It’s not enough to hide behind the rules any more,” he said. “Taxpayers are tired of loopholes and decades-old precedent. They expect more integrity.”

And that includes barely accountable organizations such as the Portland Hotel Society, contracted by government to provide services in the Downtown Eastside, the poorest neighbourhood in Canada.

Audits last week revealed a litany of lavish personal spending, missing documents and a shocking lack of oversight and controls.

The audits triggered the resignations of the society’s senior staff and board of directors, and led to Kwan’s shocking admission that she had taken family trips at the society’s expense.

Kwan said her now-estranged husband, then a PHS executive, had told her he had paid for the “family portion” of the trips.

“I can’t tell you how upsetting this is to me, and how truly sorry I am,” Kwan said.

All of these incidents should be a catalyst for change, Bateman said.

“These Kwan and Reid expenses are a tipping point. They have transcended the political world and are topics of conversation at water coolers and dinner tables. Taxpayers are demanding more accountability than ever before.”

The way forward is obvious: strict and enforceable new rules for full public accountability for MLAs, including requiring politicians to post the original receipts from their spending online — just as they do now in Alberta.

If we don’t clean this up, the waste and indulgence will just continue.

twitter.com/MikeSmythNews

msmyth@theprovince.com
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[68style]

There are plenty of "non profits" running around. Ever notice the bins you dump you clothes for "charity"? They have been proliferating like mushrooms the last few years. Why? Anyone with a white panel truck can form a non profit, servicing drop offs like that and get paid low 6 figures as an "executive". A lot of people on this board don't seem to understand the business angle of non profits. There are so many loopholes, anyone with mild business acumen can live well off and I dare say afford a house (on a lot) in Vancouver as their "career".

I am surprised no one at Revscene form a non profit..

One of those guys WAS on Revscene years ago from West Van.. he was super young and had a Gallardo and was totally open about how he bought it because he sold donated clothes back to the countries that originally made them after people dumped them in his bins. Disgusting.

Same thing goes for carbon offset credit companies that fund environmental projects... they all have fine print on their websites that say that an undetermined % of the money goes to the projects and a % to executives running the carbon offset company. Such bullshit.

[Tapioca]

O

Same thing goes for carbon offset credit companies that fund environmental projects... they all have fine print on their websites that say that an undetermined % of the money goes to the projects and a % to executives running the carbon offset company. Such bullshit.

So... you expect people to work for free when it comes to "progressive" causes? Every organization has administrative costs because people don't work for free.

[68style]

Did I say that? Anywhere?

They should honestly post up what percentage and how much their salaries are so you can make a decision yourself about whether it's worthwhile.

[godwin]

I won't say it is disgusting.. it is a legal niche, that is driven by society as a whole who are in love with low taxes and small government. Tapioca is right, people who grew up in the burbs are sanitized from the effects (and unfortunately opportunities) of places like DTES. Fibers need to be recycled, just like mint chocolate needed to be sold for "non profit" at restaurants in the old days. Fiber recycling is double if not triple loaded, so if you can't afford payment for a 200k car you are doing things really wrong, heck you don't even need to fund raise.

The people who wrote the non profit rules are politicians and lawyers. They had left plenty of loop holes so they know where to go when they need extra cash. Most of them have the acumen to not be so blatant and act so entitled about it like the PHS.

The administrative percentages for non profits are listed on a CRA website. If you put it in perspective say PHS has an operating budget of 30million, 10% (typical) goes to administration that is 3 million, say half goes to physical needs like trips to Staples, 1.5mill is still a lot to pay for 4 execs. (program managers and staff get paid via gov funds so they are not part of it).

Don't forget PHS also offers free dental to anyone.. not just DTES residents, and people from other places do take advantage of it.. remember this guy (http://www.revscene.net/forums/688009-pedestrians-watch-thieves-steal-bike-broad-daylight.html?highlight=cyclist+dental)

One of those guys WAS on Revscene years ago from West Van.. he was super young and had a Gallardo and was totally open about how he bought it because he sold donated clothes back to the countries that originally made them after people dumped them in his bins. Disgusting.

Same thing goes for carbon offset credit companies that fund environmental projects... they all have fine print on their websites that say that an undetermined % of the money goes to the projects and a % to executives running the carbon offset company. Such bullshit.

[multicartual]

The poor will always get fucked by those in power, always

[4444]

The poor will always get fucked by those in power, always

one view is that, the other is that the poor don't help themselves... likely because there's a correlation between intelligence and wealth

i think we both know you believe one, i believe the other - i'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle

[pastarocket]

Here's an idea. If government officials really want to walk the walk, and talk the talk about transparency, they should hire an independent auditor to audit these non-profit organizations.

Pass legislation to make it a law for these NPO's to give financial statements to an independent auditor to scrutinize for any financial irregularities.

Better yet, there should integrity officers that inspect these NPO's offices or investigate their staff for spending sprees.

Give these NPOs a lifetime ban from government funding if they're caught spending tax payer dollars on bling, vacations, etc.

These scammers need to pay back every dollar that they spend on personal items.

[godwin]

That is unrealistic, considering a proper audit (as in a legally defined one) costs somewhere from 20k+ and takes at least 2-3 months to do. Not to mention most of the non profits are not like PHS. The executives still get pay the same amount, the staff have to do the paperwork, tax payers will have to support a few more non profits because now some of the work is left because the existing ones are doing audits. There are about 25k-30k non profits in BC.. do the math on the cost of auditing them.

The fact is even if you have integrity officers inspect the books, the rules clearly allow discretionary spending on administrative funds. The issue is it is a loophole not a scam; much like aggressive tax deductions. Non profits is a huge economic engine especially in Vancouver. If you are entrepreneurial like Mark Brand of Save On Meats, it is not that hard to gain fame and fortune.

However if you are a CA student and wants to have a steady 100k+ job, the "integrity officers" you propose would be the gov jobs you want to get. In the end, the tax payers still have to foot that bill. Say 20 "integrity officer" for the province full time + support staff and travel (for the audits remember proper ones have to be on location).. that bill can reach millions easily... for a few hundred thousand? really? The ROI is just no there.

The best way to deal with DTES is to reopen Riverview, allow drug treatment / involuntary commitments and get proper nurses and support staff to deal with the program. However cows will be able to land on the moon when this happens.

Here's an idea. If government officials really want to walk the walk, and talk the talk about transparency, they should hire an independent auditor to audit these non-profit organizations.

Pass legislation to make it a law for these NPO's to give financial statements to an independent auditor to scrutinize for any financial irregularities.

Better yet, there should integrity officers that inspect these NPO's offices or investigate their staff for spending sprees.

Give these NPOs a lifetime ban from government funding if they're caught spending tax payer dollars on bling, vacations, etc.

These scammers need to pay back every dollar that they spend on personal items.

[Infiniti]

one view is that, the other is that the poor don't help themselves... likely because there's a correlation between intelligence and wealth

i think we both know you believe one, i believe the other - i'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle

One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.

[Tone Loc]

One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.

This. There are plenty of wealthy people who believe the way to maintain their status is by pushing others down, and there are plenty of other wealthy people (Bill Gates, et al) who spend a majority of their fortunes helping the less fortunate.

Just as there are poor people who are poor because they are lazy and/or made poor life choices and poor people who are a victim of bad circumstances and placed in a niche where they cannot rise above their poverty.

That being said, especially in Vancouver, the gap between wealthy and poor is huge, especially with respect to the cost of living. The fact that the average person needs to be making six figures to afford their own home in/near the city is unacceptable.

[Noir]

So... you expect people to work for free when it comes to "progressive" causes? Every organization has administrative costs because people don't work for free.


Does administrative and general operation costs include Disneyland vacations and regular luxury dining on company dime?


Because... that's what the original topic was about before it got diluted to... the merits of charity, the realities of operational cost, and the bubble between suburanites vs people in the DTES. Everyone's seems to have glossed over the original issue.

[godwin]

It depends on the context, if there was a convention in the Anaheim area that Dan Small had to attend (or even just going to visit a school to give a talk, or go to Anaheim to observe their homeless situation) then Yes for Disneyland (remember Disneyland markets themselves as a convention center for this exact reason). Luxury dinners to attract potential donors, yes. The bar for expenses is not high (for dinner, as long as there is a party that is not part of the company and you talked about business eg What do you do for a living? then it is kosher). That's why a lot of non profits are generous with dining especially when they don't know you, but you fit in their donor profile. In fact non profits are like any businesess, if the accountants were okay with the expenses, which they did and Revenue Canada got their fillings; then the expenses are legit. Hotel upgrade? reason: allergic to sun, air, water of that particular room and no other room of the same class are available. Remember his job title is vague for a reason: "director of policy, research and fund development"

The crux of the problem here is legitimate expenses don't mean they are in good optics. Bad optics is what forced the resignations and repayments at this point. Administrative cost is not general operations cost. Administrative costs, the non profit usually have to fund raise themselves (usually they can only take max 10%?). That's the expense column they are claiming all this. General operations eg Running Insite etc and the staffing there are from the gov and BC Housing and the executives at PHS were smart enough to not touch that. The ex execs would love to talk trash about PHS now, because the brand is now damaged goods, the quicker the brand sinks, the quicker they can turn around and form something new and grab the contracts. There are competing non profits besides PHS that are vying for those lucrative contracts.

As I had said before non profits especially in prosperous North America are businesses. They just don't make any profits at the end of the fiscal year. A lot of the times the executives are not required to have a heart for the target demographic they serve.. much like a for profit business.

Does administrative and general operation costs include Disneyland vacations and regular luxury dining on company dime?


Because... that's what the original topic was about before it got diluted to... the merits of charity, the realities of operational cost, and the bubble between suburanites vs people in the DTES. Everyone's seems to have glossed over the original issue.

[iEatClams]

one view is that, the other is that the poor don't help themselves... likely because there's a correlation between intelligence and wealth

i think we both know you believe one, i believe the other - i'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle

One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.

Not taking anything away from personal accountability. But my best friend and I came from poor households. We were the type that never got christmas presents, our parents were never present. no one taught us how to succeed.
Only presents we got were when our parents visit those toy drives because we couldnt afford toys and as a kid we wougld be soo happy when we got something. To this day I donate toys during toy drives all the time because of this.

Story is, we both took different paths. we were both of equal intelligence, but I think my parents were slightly better off, and I wont ramble on, but long story short I made it out of poverty and he didnt, and althought hes finally improving his situation, lets just say it was much more difficult for us to advance our lives.

I always say it's easy to judge others when you have nice parents, a nice home and come from good families, and have role models.

Sometimes its not about intelligence, it's just about the environment you grew up in. Sometimes the odds are against you and you are just uneducated or just naive or unaware that its possible to live a different & better life because you have never lived it before.

[4444]

One need not venture into the extremes of society in order to witness examples of those who are in superior positions of socio-economic standing and power that take measures to perpetuate their superiority, effectively rendering those born into less fortunate positions an inability to escape such class divisions.

I agree that there are a number of individuals who have chosen their paths and must now sleep in their proverbial "beds"; however, the notion of simply turning a blind eye to certain inequalities and injustices that exist as a result of class alienation is unacceptable from my point of view.

not saying that at all, and i agree with you. but we can't just say 'the poor will be poor because the rich keep them that way'
how many of our parents had nothing, literally nothing, had to consider the cost of fuel in the decision of going to the beach in the summer when we were young (my personal situation), now how many of our parents have net assets in the millions, or are very comfortable, or whatever metric you want to use in assessing their happiness? My parents were never homeless, but supposedly the conditions my father lived in would have made me sick, and what he ate was the cheapest food (baked beans on toast was a staple for my parents back in the day)

in my situation (that is, my parents coming from nothing to being in a position of privilege and being able to provide a great example to my siblings and i) it's all been down to VERY hard work, long hours, conservative, smart decisions. so it can be done, just as equally as people can blame others and say 'i'm down trodden' and stay on the breadline for life.

now, having said that, it's so much easier to stay richer when you're born richer - but i personally think so much of it is attitude and decision making. i see so many young single mums with kids (especially in the UK) - unplanned at that - there's one way of making life that much harder. i always think to myself that this is a decision, you can choose to be a bit smarter, to use protection, to keep your legs closed, etc. but outside of that, in canada we are so fortunate to have a relatively high minimum wage, so here's my super simple plan to improve your life if you feel downtrodden:

Get a minimum wage job. Work all the fucking shifts available, work 80 hrs a week. Rent a room in a house, pref. somewhere close to transit, don't own a car. Spend a year working your arse off, saving everything you can. go to college, get some kind of training on a part time basis as you work. Guess what after 3 years of doing this you'll probably be able to get a much better paying job as you will have a skill that is valued, i'm not saying $100K a year, but maybe $40-$50K if it's a trade, maybe now you can share a slightly nicer apartment with someone (keeping costs down).

I just don't buy the whole 'i'm poor i can't get out of it' argument, especially in canada, it just takes discipline, hard work, and a view to bigger, better things in your future. Do you all think I enjoyed working for 7 years at a restaurant to put myself through school entirely debt free (i'll grant you, i lived at home for free for most of that time (at the end i did have to pay rent, as was always agreed, i took too long at school, was my bad)) - no, i didn't, but damn it, the fruits of your labour are sweeter than the alternative.

but anyways, i digress, ramble, and sound like a total right wing/hitler youth movement type. i hate politicians and anyone associated with taxpayer money. sadly i don't have a solution to the world's problems, but i know where i'd start, and that would be by firing a lot of grease ball politicians, taking away their pensions and their severance packages.

[4444]

Does administrative and general operation costs include Disneyland vacations and regular luxury dining on company dime?


Because... that's what the original topic was about before it got diluted to... the merits of charity, the realities of operational cost, and the bubble between suburanites vs people in the DTES. Everyone's seems to have glossed over the original issue.

no we haven't, it's clear that no one thinks those items are general admin costs, but what can we do about it? nothing... our hands are tied, this issue will go to bed, then someone else will do it

the system is broken and will never get fixed, that's why you pay high top tax rates, yet your services and infrastructure suck, too much is being wasted candying noses (rob ford) or lining the pocket of fat fuck politicians

if you want to start standing outside of city hall and protesting, i will support you - grow the group day by day, start a NPO yourself to cover certain costs (food/heating/shelter) in your stance against this BS, and i'll donate to you. but it won't last, the police will move you along. Canada isn't as free as you think it is (just look at the Chinese protesters on Granville... and how that got disbanded)