[iEatClams]

Restaurants barred from using Temporary Foreign Worker Program - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/restaurants-barred-from-using-temporary-foreign-worker-program/article18203064/)

I think this is a big issue. Unemployment is already high as it is, and a lot of these programs are taking jobs away from youths and teenagers.

It starts off with fast food and labour type jobs, soon it becomes white collar jobs like IT , accountants etc. ie. the RBC story.

I just want to bring awareness to this issue of how many corporations are abusing this program to reduce costs and increase profits.

Governments should stay out of market intervention for stuff like this. If companies pay higher market wages, it will draw more workers to apply to those jobs. Supply and demand will usually take care of itself.


Employment Minister Jason Kenney has put an immediate moratorium on allowing restaurants to hire temporary foreign workers after a series of abuse allegations.

The announcement is the largest change to a federal program gripped by controversy over the past year after employees across the country have complained publicly about being replaced by temporary foreign workers. Mr. Kenney said in a statement Thursday evening that his earlier effort to sanction specific outlets wasn’t working and that wider action was needed.

MORE RELATED TO THIS STORY

McDonald’s halts use of foreign workers
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Service sector sees spike in temporary foreign workers
“There remain serious concerns regarding the use of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program in the food services sector,” he said.

The decision took businesses by surprise, as they decried a lack of consultation and said the move would force some employers to close shop.

“I knew a shoe was going to drop, but this was both shoes. This is a far bigger reaction than what I thought,” said Dan Kelly, head of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.

“In the minister’s province of Alberta many small businesses will teeter on [the brink of] survival based on this decision.”

Mr. Kenney said his office will not process any new or pending labour market opinion applications in the food sector. The opinions are required before permission is granted to hire a temporary foreign worker. As well, any restaurant that has already obtained an LMO but hasn’t yet filled the position will be unable to do so.

“Abuse of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program will not be tolerated,” Mr. Kenney said in the statement.

Ian Tostenson, president of the B.C. Restaurant and Foodservices Association, said he agreed the program needs review but that Mr. Kenney has overreacted. “There are a lot of small business people in British Columbia who are wondering what this means for them. It’s chaos. We would have really liked a heads up.”

Mr. Kenney had hinted earlier this month that he was considering such a move.

He told CBC Radio in British Columbia last week that it was not an “unreasonable question” to ask about limiting the use of the program for fast-food restaurants.

“I am skeptical that food-service jobs in urban areas with still relatively high youth unemployment need to use this program,” he said at the time.

Those comments got a cool reception from the food industry, as well as the governments of British Columbia and Alberta, where the program is more commonly used by businesses to fill job vacancies.

Alberta Labour Minister Thomas Lukaszuk told The Globe and Mail last week that the government should not be “picking out one industry and making an assumption there is a problem.”

Mr. Kenney’s move comes on the same day that Tim Hortons announced it would inspect each of its franchises that employ temporary foreign workers after reports that two stores belonging to the Canadian coffee chain breached labour rules.

The chain confirmed Thursday that it had terminated franchisee control of locations in Fernie, B.C., and Blairmore, Alta., after foreign workers in the neighbouring Rocky Mountain towns claimed they were denied overtime pay. About 4,500 temporary foreign workers are employed by Tim Hortons, most of them in Western Canada.

With 5 per cent of its 90,000-strong work force made up of foreign workers on temporary permits, Tim Hortons spokeswoman Olga Petrycki said the company is expanding an existing audit program. A new mandatory independent audit will start “over the next few months.”

McDonald’s Canada put a stop to all new foreign hires on Wednesday after criticism that the fast-food giant was favouring foreign workers over Canadian applicants.

Three McDonald’s locations in Victoria were blacklisted by the federal government last week and forbidden from using the temporary worker program after applicants complained they were being turned away and locals were offered fewer hours than foreign workers.

Earlier this week, two long-time waitresses at a small pizzeria in Weyburn, Sask., complained they had been fired and replaced by foreign workers. Weyburn has been cited in the past as an example of the type of small Canadian community dealing with worker shortages and best served by the temporary work permits.

Mr. Kenney questioned last week whether the food-services sector should be eligible to use the program. Tim Hortons and McDonald’s collectively employ nearly 9,000 temporary foreign workers. A study released by the C.D. Howe Institute on Thursday was sharply critical of the federal program and blamed it for a higher youth unemployment rate in Western Canada.

The report also argued that a new $275 user fee imposed in 2013 was not high enough to serve as an incentive for employers to seek out Canadians. The report noted that fees in the United States and elsewhere are much higher for similar programs, and part of the money raised is used to fund programs to train domestic workers.

The Temporary Foreign Worker Program has grown quickly under the Conservatives. The Globe and Mail reported this week that use of the program by the service sector rose sharply between 2006 and 2012, the most recent date that statistics are publicly available.

The number of approved foreign worker positions in accommodation and food services in that period grew from 4,360 to 44,740 – an increase of 926 per cent, according to public data from Employment and Social Development Canada.

Workers under the program are approved for two-year stints, although many can work for longer by stringing together multiple jobs and immigration initiatives. Foreign workers also cannot be paid minimum wage, but must be remunerated at a rate closer to the market average.

NDP employment critic Jinny Sims said she welcomed the government’s decision.

“We had been calling for a moratorium and I’m glad the government is finally listening,” she said in a statement. “But a moratorium on its own is not enough. We need an independent review of the whole program to end its abuse. The minister has the responsibility to ensure that people living in Canada get first access to Canadian jobs.”

Mr. Kelly of the CFIB had just returned from a small Indian restaurant in Scarborough when he heard the news. A spokesman for Canadian business, he has taken a large public role during the debate on temporary foreign workers as many businesses fear public shaming.

The owner of the Indian restaurant told him during his supper that he needed nine cooks, with skills learned only in India. The restaurateur currently has five cooks, of which four are in Canada on temporary permits that expire next year.

“I doubt that a restaurant like that would survive if this moratorium lasts more than a few weeks,” Mr. Kelly said.

[godwin]

Nice to see the CEOs are squirming even a little bit

McDonald's Canada CEO calls foreign worker controversy 'bullshit' - Canada - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mcdonald-s-canada-ceo-calls-foreign-worker-controversy-bullshit-1.2621151)
Exclusive
McDonald's Canada CEO calls foreign worker controversy 'bullshit'
In a recording of a conference call to franchisees, CEO John Betts rails against CBC stories

The CEO of McDonald's Canada has branded recent criticism of its use of temporary foreign workers "bullshit" in a conference call to franchisees that was given to the CBC.

His remarks from earlier this week came before federal Employment Minister Jason Kenney announced an immediate moratorium on the food services sector’s access to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program late on Thursday, as a result of CBC Go Public's inquiries.

Listen to McDonald's CEO conference call

Three McDonald's franchises in Victoria and a pizza restaurant in Weyburn, Sask., are at the centre of program abuse allegations involving Canadian employees alleging foreign workers were given priority work status or more hours.

A federal investigation into McDonald’s use of the temporary foreign worker program was launched recently, after a Go Public story about a Victoria McDonald’s franchise.

McDonald's franchisee could face charges over foreign workers
Temporary foreign worker program abuse to bring heavy fines
Temporary Foreign Worker Program sanctions target 3 employers
McDonald's foreign worker practices halted in face of investigation

Tuesday's conference call was scheduled to address franchisees' concerns that McDonald's Canada had decided to put its temporary foreign worker program on hold, while a third party conducts an audit on its use of the plan.

McDonald's initiated that independent audit in response to the government investigation.

In a recording of the call given to the CBC, McDonald's Canada CEO John Betts discusses recent CBC stories on the company's use of temporary foreign workers and his resulting meeting with federal Employment Minister Jason Kenney.​

"This has been an attack on our brand. This has been an attack on our system. This is an attack on our people. It’s bullshit OK! I used those words when I described my conversation with the minister last week. He gets it."

John Betts

The CBC has been given a recording of McDonald's Canada CEO John Betts calling stories about its temporary foreign worker policy 'bullshit'. (CBC)

Betts says he was "incredibly impressed" with the minister, adding, "He really knows his stuff. And I’ll say he knows his stuff from a business person’s perspective."

Responding sarcastically to how his company has been portrayed in the media, Betts said, "The fact of the matter is we are a big bad company, corporate, you know, bad company and these poor maligned employees are who they are."

"Yes, they are disenfranchised. Some of them don’t work for us anymore. But in the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter."

"This story has been brewing for a lot of years. And you know at the end of the day we just happen to be the business that got tapped into it and we weren’t the first. Obviously, RBC was," said Betts, referring to a previous CBC Go Public story.

"The reality is that we have learned internally that we haven’t done a very good job in a lot more places than we thought and that’s just us on the phone talking."
Franchisees fear losing staff

One franchisee in Alberta expressed concern about employees — temporary foreign workers — who won't be able to get their work permits renewed.

"When that happens, every single foreign worker in Alberta is going to leave us. They are scared. The restaurants are going to fall apart. This is how it is on the ground," said the franchisee.

'We are a big, bad company...and these poor maligned employees are who they are'- McDonald's Canada CEO John Betts, responding sarcastically to how the company has been portrayed in the media

Another franchisee was worried about money he had just paid to Actyl, one of the international recruitment agencies McDonald's pays up to $2,000 for every worker they bring in.

"I paid Actyl Group probably $14,000. So am I out the $14,000 now and the whole nine yards?" asked the franchisee.

The restaurant chain's vice-president of human resources Len Jillard, also taking part in the conference call, is heard replying, "Believe me, we are doing everything we can to get everything back on the rails."

Later on, Betts comments "This is a big one for us and it is critical because of our brand image and because of your need to make profits and our systems need to take care of our people."
'Element of truth'

Betts spends much of the conference call railing against the CBC's coverage of the controversy — but admits there is truth to the stories.

"Here’s the kicker. The kicker is there’s an element of truth in each of these stories," Betts said.

McDonald's accused of favouring foreign workers

McDonald's Canada has agreed to a third-party investigation of all locations that use temporary foreign workers. (CBC)

"What we’ve got to do is fix what we have in the restaurants concerning the temporary foreign workers.

"But what we’ve also learned is that we have other opportunities in the people area that we also need to take care of. Violations of labour law. And those are the kind of things that suddenly become compounded because we have another issue over here, that’s very emotional in Canada."

With regard to the company's decision to halt its Temporary Foreign Worker Program, Betts told concerned franchisees that, "In dealing with the government, the smartest move was to pre-empt their move in terms of suspending us."

"I think the relationship we build with the minister here is a politically astute one to be taking. Because they're feeling the heat big time before this story broke and now it's bigger and bigger," he went on.

"They need to see us as partners in this as a brand that can help them make some progress on this and at the same time give us an opportunity to clean ourselves up."

At no point during the recording does the CEO mention hiring Canadians instead of temporary foreign workers or go over the rules of the federal Temporary Foreign Worker Program.
Moratorium on food services industry

As a result of CBC Go Public's inquiries, federal Employment Minister Jason Kenney announced late Thursday an immediate moratorium on the food services sector’s access to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.
Jason Kenney

Employment Minister Jason Kenney has announced a moratorium on the food service sector's access to temporary foreign workers. (CBC)

"Our Government has been clear: Canadians must have the first chance at available jobs. We have repeatedly warned employers that the Temporary Foreign Worker Program must only be used as a last and limited resort when Canadians are not available," said the minister in a statement.

The minister said that despite an ongoing investigation into serious allegations of abuse of the program, the suspension of LMOs and the blacklisting of the employers in question, there remained serious concerns relating to the use of temporary foreign workers in the food services sector.

"As a result, I am announcing an immediate moratorium on the Food Services Sector’s access to the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.

"Accordingly, ESDC [Employment and Skills Development Canada] will not process any new or pending LMO applications related to the Food Services Sector. In addition, any unfilled positions tied to a previously approved LMO will be suspended."

The moratorium will remain in effect until the completion of the on-going review of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program.

[rsx]

I think by that logic, outsourcing and call centre jobs should be given priority to Canadians.

[Manic!]

Need a job come to Nanaimo. Unemployment rate is at 4.5% and most of those don't really want to work.

[StylinRed]

I cant stand the Cons and their foreign worker program it's bullshit

And I'm glad its been getting more attention recently but so much more is needed

[pastarocket]

I cant stand the Cons and their foreign worker program it's bullshit

And I'm glad its been getting more attention recently but so much more is needed


It's gonna be a busy time at my workplace. I work for the feds in the TFW program.

There are two sides to each story. I agree 100% that the TFW program must scrutinize and even put employers in position to face criminal prosecution if they abuse the program and foreign workers.

What is happening now is just the tip of the ice berg. As per the CBC article, do not surprised if you hear employers in food service industry face fines of up to $100,000 and up to a five year prison term. No joke. No bullshit. Employers that abuse the program will face justice.

Having said that, there are employers who have a legitimate need for foreign workers because there are a shortage of Canadians that have the education and experience needed for high skilled jobs.
Examples: geologists, civil engineers, senior executives in mining companies, visual effects artists, software developers, etc. have labour shortages across the country based on labour market data that the federal government staff and the public can view. It is called Labour Market Information (LMI).

Some foreign workers have the education and international work experience in jobs in the mining industry, digital media, and film and entertainment to fill jobs that Canadians do not.
Some examples are DJs , actors in TV shows like Almost Human and movie studios for the film Godzilla hire American actors, camera operators, and directors because these foreign workers have the talent needed to do the job. We are talking about a billion dollar film industry in BC.

There are employers that hire low skilled workers like food counter attendants, kitchen helpers and some high skilled jobs like cooks who are abusing the program. No doubt.
The feds are going after the bad employers with a big stick using fines and criminal prosecution.

These employers like Tim Hortons and McD's are bullshitting when they say they do not abuse the program, abuse foreign workers by taking their overtime pay back in cash, or give more work shifts to "harder working" foreigners instead of Canadians who
work hard and show up to work on time.

Like I said, this is just the tip of the ice berg.

The government will put some of these employers in food service industry under criminal
investigation and prosecution.

No bullshit.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Timpo]

ok, I don't understand the problem here, can someone give me cliff notes? :suspicious:

What do they mean by employers abusing TFW program?
Are they allowed to pay lower wage for non-Canadians? If not, I don't think hiring non-Canadian is going to be beneficial for McDonald's or Tim Horton's.

It's not like McDonald's were purposely trying to avoid hiring Canadians...or were they? If so, what's the benefits for them to hire foreigners?

[Timpo]

I just want to bring awareness to this issue of how many corporations are abusing this program to reduce costs and increase profits.


Reduce costs? So they do save money on wages I believe?

Well I would say that's too bad but it's been going on forever. I don't understand why we only target on service industry like McDonalds, Royal Bank, etc.

Look at how many things are made in China, although Canadians know how to manufacture their products, they would rather make them in China to cut the cost. They're essentially cutting Canadian factory workers.

Same goes for foods, we import a lot of foods from the states and everywhere around the world.

[pastarocket]

ok, I don't understand the problem here, can someone give me cliff notes? :suspicious:

What do they mean by employers abusing TFW program?
Are they allowed to pay lower wage for non-Canadians? If not, I don't think hiring non-Canadian is going to be beneficial for McDonald's or Tim Horton's.

It's not like McDonald's were purposely trying to avoid hiring Canadians...or were they? If so, what's the benefits for them to hire foreigners?


Abusing workers can mean for example Tim Hortons franchise owner driving the foreign workers to their bank to ask
the to cash overtime cheques to pay that cash back
to the owner. Check out cbc.ca. The Timmy's owner got caught with this abuse on the foreigners.

Timpo, if you hire a foreigner to do a job, high skilled like a cook, senior mining exec, or low skill job like a hotel clerk, owner must pay the same average median wage paid to a Canadian for
that job. No lower wages.

In fact, employers must pay for airfare and help provide or find housing for
the foreign workers. It actually costs more to hire a foreign worker for low skilled jobs because of airfare to bring them into Canada.

So why do some employers like McD's give more work
shifts to foreign workers than Canadians? Do they work harder and are more reliable than Canadians?
That can be disputed. The McD's managers in Victoria franchises make
that argument for foreigners based on work
ethic and reliability.

Criminal investigations and prosecution for employers who intimidate foreign workers and do
other illegal things like take overtime pay in cash back from
foreigners are happening.


Who said that the government is just going after abusive employers?

If an immigration lawyer is illegally charging workers a fee for say $20,000 to
work in Canada, TFW program has staff who work with the RCMP to investigate these lawyers too.

Foreign workers can call anonymously
the TFW TIPS line to report employer and third party lawyer abuses of the program.
Just google Temporary Foreign Worker
Program to get more info.
A busy day at TFW. Sigh.
Posted via RS Mobile

[StylinRed]

ok, I don't understand the problem here, can someone give me cliff notes? :suspicious:

What do they mean by employers abusing TFW program?
Are they allowed to pay lower wage for non-Canadians?

They CONS originally allowed employers to pay tfw's 15% less in wages but iirc when this matter began getting media attention Harper had removed this benefit starting 2014 :rolleyes:

But the issue isn't just with fast food joints they were/are doing it with mining they recently wanted to import a force of Chinese miners who didn't know anything and needed to be trained by locals who would get to keep their jobs until they trained these guys :rolleyes: the company claimed a lack of miners available locally which was bs, luckily media attention and unions got involved

[iEatClams]

I understand certain positions lack qualified candidates. Where a specialized individual is required to work that job and they may need to go outside of Canada to hire those individuals. But the abuse comes from hiring foreign workers (philipines / mexico) to do regular retail jobs at Mcds / subway / tim hortons that should be going to Canadians.

The other downside to this besides higher unemployment is that the money that goes to these foreign workers goes back to their home country and not into the canadian economy. so we shell out EI and welfare for the unemployed, or have kids not being able to find jobs instead of having them work, and then spending that money into canada and helping push demand into the economy.

[iEatClams]

First it starts with retail jobs, eventually it may be your job that the foreigners may take. I just dont think it's a good policy for the Canadian Economy with companies abusing it.

[pastarocket]

They CONS originally allowed employers to pay tfw's 15% less in wages but iirc when this matter began getting media attention Harper had removed this benefit starting 2014 :rolleyes:

But the issue isn't just with fast food joints they were/are doing it with mining they recently wanted to import a force of Chinese miners who didn't know anything and needed to be trained by locals who would get to keep their jobs until they trained these guys :rolleyes: the company claimed a lack of miners available locally which was bs, luckily media attention and unions got involved


Get your facts right, StylinRed. The court case was dismissed last year. The federal government officer who made the decision to approve the hiring of the HD mining workers from China made the right call.

The Canadian miners that HD mining could have hired do not know the mining technique of "long wall mining" used in coal mines. No other mine in Canada has Canadian workers who know this mining technique.

The judge made the ruling that the officer of the TFW program who approved the HD mining application made the right decision.


In this case, the Chinese miners had in depth knowledge of a mining technique for coal mines in Canada instead of the Canadian miners.

Really? The Chinese miners didn't know anything? Hmmm.

HD mining was vindicated with the judge's decision.

B.C. mine's temporary foreign workers case dismissed - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-mine-s-temporary-foreign-workers-case-dismissed-1.1332320)

[skiiipi]

In fact, employers must pay for airfare and help provide or find housing for
the foreign workers. It actually costs more to hire a foreign worker for low skilled jobs because of airfare to bring them into Canada.

So why do some employers like McD's give more work
shifts to foreign workers than Canadians? Do they work harder and are more reliable than Canadians?
That can be disputed. The McD's managers in Victoria franchises make
that argument for foreigners based on work
ethic and reliability.


While I definitely do not agree with the abuse of foreign workers, especially when it comes to forcing people to pay back their OT pay.
I can say that a lot of foreign workers have much better work ethics than the younger generation of kids these days. (Which is the people competing with the foreign workers for retail and fast food jobs).
Unfortunately, a lot of the younger generation these days are being raised with a sense of unrealistic entitlement when it comes to work, they hear stories about their mom and dad's union jobs and expect the same from McDonalds or their entry level retail job, they demand their 15min coffee breaks, they ask for a raise every 6 month, and whenever you ask them to do something slightly more challenging, they reply "thats not in my job description, you will need to pay me more if you want me to do that".
I manage a workforce of about ~150 staff, and about 5-6 foreign work visa, and I can say that those 5-6 employees are by far my hardest working staff.

It is (relatively) easy to teach somehow a skill, however it is not as easy to teach someone good work ethics.

[StylinRed]

Get your facts right, StylinRed. The court case was dismissed last year. The federal government officer who made the decision to approve the hiring of the HD mining workers from China made the right call.

The Canadian miners that HD mining could have hired do not know the mining technique of "long wall mining" used in coal mines. No other mine in Canada has Canadian workers who know this mining technique.

The judge made the ruling that the officer of the TFW program who approved the HD mining application made the right decision.


In this case, the Chinese miners had in depth knowledge of a mining technique for coal mines in Canada instead of the Canadian miners.

Really? The Chinese miners didn't know anything? Hmmm.

HD mining was vindicated with the judge's decision.

B.C. mine's temporary foreign workers case dismissed - British Columbia - CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-mine-s-temporary-foreign-workers-case-dismissed-1.1332320)

I had thought the unions appealed that. Didn't realize it ended there

But they're still in court from the steelworkers union, and cherry picking a unique method of coal mining is simply a loophole. Hdmining still required tfws to receivetraining by locals iirc for safety standards and some of the equipment being used.

As I said in the original thread about the mines the company should be forced to train locals to use whichever techniques they desire for the job while using a very limited amount of TFW's (in terms of time and quantity) until locals are trained.

Hdmining was also seeking tfw's at a 30-35% wage cut (that came out during the trial)

[Great68]

As I said in the original thread about the mines the company should be forced to train locals to use whichever techniques they desire for the job while using a very limited amount of TFW's (in terms of time and quantity) until locals are trained.

This.

[stewie]

While I definitely do not agree with the abuse of foreign workers, especially when it comes to forcing people to pay back their OT pay.
I can say that a lot of foreign workers have much better work ethics than the younger generation of kids these days. (Which is the people competing with the foreign workers for retail and fast food jobs).
Unfortunately, a lot of the younger generation these days are being raised with a sense of unrealistic entitlement when it comes to work, they hear stories about their mom and dad's union jobs and expect the same from McDonalds or their entry level retail job, they demand their 15min coffee breaks, they ask for a raise every 6 month, and whenever you ask them to do something slightly more challenging, they reply "thats not in my job description, you will need to pay me more if you want me to do that".
I manage a workforce of about ~150 staff, and about 5-6 foreign work visa, and I can say that those 5-6 employees are by far my hardest working staff.

It is (relatively) easy to teach somehow a skill, however it is not as easy to teach someone good work ethics.

Granted they may be harder workers, but kids make mistakes. If they can't even get a simple basic job then they're not going to last a day when they enter the real world.

If a kid gets fired for pulling some attitude that their parents passed down to them from telling them about unions and shit, then maybe the kids will open their eyes and put them in check.
Posted via RS Mobile

[pastarocket]

The minister J. Kenney made it clear as per the Temporary Foreign Worker Program website:

Canadians must always be first in line for available jobs


Canadians must have the first crack at available jobs. Am I right, guys? :accepted:

[iEatClams]

While I definitely do not agree with the abuse of foreign workers, especially when it comes to forcing people to pay back their OT pay.
I can say that a lot of foreign workers have much better work ethics than the younger generation of kids these days. (Which is the people competing with the foreign workers for retail and fast food jobs).
Unfortunately, a lot of the younger generation these days are being raised with a sense of unrealistic entitlement when it comes to work, they hear stories about their mom and dad's union jobs and expect the same from McDonalds or their entry level retail job, they demand their 15min coffee breaks, they ask for a raise every 6 month, and whenever you ask them to do something slightly more challenging, they reply "thats not in my job description, you will need to pay me more if you want me to do that".
I manage a workforce of about ~150 staff, and about 5-6 foreign work visa, and I can say that those 5-6 employees are by far my hardest working staff.

It is (relatively) easy to teach somehow a skill, however it is not as easy to teach someone good work ethics.

while there is truth to this, sometimes the work ethic comes from the fact that if they wont work they get sent back to their home countries. They work hard out of fear. and you underestimate a lot of canadian kids these days. Yes many are lazy and entitled, but many are not. A lot of them are actually very hard working. My dad manages a small business and the kids (17-25 year olds) are all hard working. But then again he tends to hire kids (born in canada) that come from european or asian immigrants because immigrant parents teach their kids better work ethics.



" they demand their 15min coffee breaks" --- you say it as it's a bad thing.
it's this type of thinking that gives unions their powers. Why shouldn't employees be allowed their breaks? We have it as a law for a reason. Too many employers want their employees to be working 60 + hours a week with no workers rights. This is a western country, not some third world sweat shop.

I mentioned in another thread that I hate unions, but they are a necessity because employers will abuse the fck out of workers if unions are not around.

unions gave us things we took for granted such as
"40 hour work weeks"
"vacation entitlements"
"weekends"

[skiiipi]

while there is truth to this, sometimes the work ethic comes from the fact that if they wont work they get sent back to their home countries. They work hard out of fear. and you underestimate a lot of canadian kids these days. Yes many are lazy and entitled, but many are not. A lot of them are actually very hard working. My dad manages a small business and the kids (17-25 year olds) are all hard working. But then again he tends to hire kids (born in canada) that come from european or asian immigrants because immigrant parents teach their kids better work ethics.



" they demand their 15min coffee breaks" --- you say it as it's a bad thing.
it's this type of thinking that gives unions their powers. Why shouldn't employees be allowed their breaks? We have it as a law for a reason. Too many employers want their employees to be working 60 + hours a week with no workers rights. This is a western country, not some third world sweat shop.

I mentioned in another thread that I hate unions, but they are a necessity because employers will abuse the fck out of workers if unions are not around.

unions gave us things we took for granted such as
"40 hour work weeks"
"vacation entitlements"
"weekends"

Not saying there are no good Canadian kids, I've worked with a handful of great hard working kids myself. But just on average, the foreign workers tend to have better work ethics (possibly due to fear, but also the fact that they came to Canada with one intention, and thats to work hard and earn some money for whatever reason it is)

as for the union mentality, well I'm not saying we work people like sweat shops, but at my work we provide a 30min unpaid break on a shift over 5 hours, these kids are coming in asking for 2X15min break on a 5 hour shift, and 2 15s and 1 60min paid break on an 8 hour shift....granted some union jobs offer this, it is definitely not an employment standard.

another mentality that I face working in the retail industry is that (especially for the day time positions), many Canadians are raised with this mentality that "looks down" upon retail and fast food jobs, so when they are working those jobs, their mentality is "how do I get out of here onto something better" (again generalizing, and more true in my current market than other parts of canada). While a lot of these foreign workers are happy and content with retail and or fast food jobs which leads to lower turnover and overall more productivity.

For the record, I work in Fort McMurray managing a retail store, so the market here is very different, the fast food industry predominantly survives on temporary foreign workers.

[iEatClams]

For the record, I work in Fort McMurray managing a retail store, so the market here is very different, the fast food industry predominantly survives on temporary foreign workers.

This is where I would support the use of the Foreign Worker programs, because it's very difficult to find employees in certain rural regions and areas.

But to tell me that you can't find workers in Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria etc. for jobs like Mcdonalds or Tim Hortons? that's clearly a sign of abuse, and justifiably, many Canadians are not happy.




But at the same time, I was having this discussion with a friend about areas like northern BC or Alberta. If employers pay market prices, say X dollars higher than what it currently is, this will attract more people to seek those positions or to get the training for them. Over time there will be more workers and because of a higher supply of workers, the wages will go back down (equilibrium).

But then businesses cant afford to wait that long and such. it's an interesting case for those companies up north.

[skiiipi]

This is where I would support the use of the Foreign Worker programs, because it's very difficult to find employees in certain rural regions and areas.

But to tell me that you can't find workers in Vancouver, Toronto, Victoria etc. for jobs like Mcdonalds or Tim Hortons? that's clearly a sign of abuse, and justifiably, many Canadians are not happy.




But at the same time, I was having this discussion with a friend about areas like northern BC or Alberta. If employers pay market prices, say X dollars higher than what it currently is, this will attract more people to seek those positions or to get the training for them. Over time there will be more workers and because of a higher supply of workers, the wages will go back down (equilibrium).

But then businesses cant afford to wait that long and such. it's an interesting case for those companies up north.

Tim Hortons pay $14-17/hr up here for an entry level position, but even that those wages cannot retain local workers.
Their work force here is 90% foreign with minimal english skills.

[iEatClams]

another mentality that I face working in the retail industry is that (especially for the day time positions), many Canadians are raised with this mentality that "looks down" upon retail and fast food jobs, so when they are working those jobs, their mentality is "how do I get out of here onto something better" (again generalizing, and more true in my current market than other parts of canada). While a lot of these foreign workers are happy and content with retail and or fast food jobs which leads to lower turnover and overall more productivity.



A part of the problem I think is that these type of jobs tend to pay lower wages, and many can not afford to have a decent lifestyle working these type of jobs, and therefore people tend to look down on it.

If the jobs paid a little better, it might change. But usually these jobs are near minimum wage, so they will not get as much respect as a job that pays 3x as much. It's just the way it's been for these type of jobs.

I'm sure we would hold a Mcdonalds worker in higher prestige if the job paid $75K a year.

[Tone Loc]

A part of the problem I think is that these type of jobs tend to pay lower wages, and many can not afford to have a decent lifestyle working these type of jobs, and therefore people tend to look down on it.

If the jobs paid a little better, it might change. But usually these jobs are near minimum wage, so they will not get as much respect as a job that pays 3x as much. It's just the way it's been for these type of jobs.

I'm sure we would hold a Mcdonalds worker in higher prestige if the job paid $75K a year.

That's the whole dilemma of the TFW program. The way I personally see it is this:

- Lots of youth, young people etc. don't WANT to work at Mcdonalds/fast food places; they HAVE to. As in they put in their time, get paid (in order to go to college/uni) and quit the second they find something else that is better. I would know, being a "young person" who took a food service job to make ends meet for a couple of months while waiting for my gov't position to open up.

- As a result, turnover rates are very high. This is bad for the business.

- This results in businesses using the TFW program to hire people from other countries, who WANT to work at McD and will stay for the duration of their work term (usually 2-4 years).

- Most businesses have no choice but to hire TFWs because the turnover rate is low, TFWs tend to work harder (as they want to get citizenship, if that is still possible now (I doubt it)), and they save money on training and wages. But MOSTLY, because TFWs don't complain, ever. They work hard, work on holidays/weekends, rarely ask for days off, etc.

The argument is that businesses are taking away Canadian jobs in the food service/hospitality sector, but think about it... the average young person does not want to work at one of these types of places for more than a year or so. With our education system, young people with the skills can easily get a better job, with more prestige and more way elsewhere.

They (and by "they" I mean the NDP and Labour Ministry) say that these business should raise their wages to be more competitive, but there is a whole sector of people who are against raising the minimum wage, which, IMO, is the ONLY way to "fix the problem" of TFW program abuse. But nobody wants to do that, as if it's a criminal thing to pay someone enough to get by in the area where they live. The rhetoric behind that idea is that these McJobs are supposed to be temporary and hardworking, educated Canadians should NOT be using a McJob as their career. Kinda messed up, eh? The way I see it, it's one big vicious circle that forces businesses to hire TFWs instead of young people, many of whom choose NOT to work at McJobs because they can't maintain a cost of living (rent, food, going out, buying a car, etc.) at a job that pays 10-12/hr, especially in Vancouver.

All up for discussion, I suppose.

[pastarocket]

It's not just with low skilled jobs in restaurants which employers apply to hire foreign workers temporarily under this federal program.

There's another program stream called "Agricultural Stream" and "Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program".

Hiring Foreign Agricultural Workers | ESDC (http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/agriculture/index.shtml)

Workers on farms would work on planting and harvesting crops, working with cows and other animals, and insects (beekeepers to get extract honey from the bees).

National Commodity List
•apiary products (Beekeepers, for example)
•fruits, vegetables (excluding legumes), flowers, Christmas trees (including on-farm canning/processing, greenhouses/nurseries)
•sod
•tobacco
•bovine
•dairy
•duck
•horse
•mink
•poultry
•sheep
•swine


There is indeed a shortage of Canadian workers in certain sectors of our economy like farming.

Canada has formal agreements with Mexico and Caribbean nations to have their workers work on farms here. It's good business for the farmers who need to address a worker shortage and for foreign workers who want to make a better living relative to their jobs back in their home country:

Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program.

Hiring Seasonal Agricultural Workers | ESDC (http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/agriculture/seasonal/index.shtml)

These farm employers are legit.

Here's an example of foreign workers in Latin American countries like Nicaragua working in this type of job. Honey bee, apiary work is common in that country as I've been told by employers. There is a shortage of Canadians who have the experience and skills to work with bees:

Beekeeper Helper - Meadow Lake, SK - Job Posting - Job Bank (http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/jobposting.do?searchstring=8251&button.submit=Search&id=12655477&source=searchresults)


Do people seriously think that Canadians, especially in an expensive city like Vancouver, would want to do hard physical labour on a farm planting and harvesting crops, or working in unsanitary conditions with cows for $12/hour??

:heckno:

[godwin]

Vancouverites and Revsceners still want <$2 burgers

http://www.revscene.net/forums/597343-i-love-mcdonalds-you-do-too-54.html#post8461363

haha

[Berzerker]

Here in Smithers the mcdonalds owner has recently hired 3 TFW workers. This has caused a shitstorm with the current people who work there. Being a small town I know the owner and some employees. The old employees are pissed because the new workers are being offered the overtime hours. Reason for this is unknown but the kickback scenario comes to mind. Also he hired 3 workers from the same place. They all speak Nigerian and even though there is an "English only" policy on the floor there is a definite rift in the company now. It's a clique situation and the old workers are getting pissed off. I will add I know 3 people who quit there because the owner was not willing to reward long term employment with small raises and or more overtime. Word is he also looking at bringing in even more TFW workers even though I know for a fact local people would like to work there and have applied for work there.
Posted via RS Mobile

[kross9]

Finally food places that will speak English!

[godwin]

The other thing I think is it is not a fair playing field within the food industry too. The program intrinsically limits it to large corporations which can leverage the economy of scale, vs small mom and pop operations.

I think the gov infrastructure is cut back so badly, they can't really oversee the function of such program without issues not popping up.

[Sid Vicious]

in troubling times like this we must look to one of the smartest shows ever written for salvation
http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/3/3/6/8/3/3/5/jerbs-82331276051.png

[Traum]

Having said that, there are employers who have a legitimate need for foreign workers because there are a shortage of Canadians that have the education and experience needed for high skilled jobs.
Examples: geologists, civil engineers, senior executives in mining companies, visual effects artists, software developers, etc. have labour shortages across the country based on labour market data that the federal government staff and the public can view. It is called Labour Market Information (LMI).

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

[hypediss]

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

[godwin]

40k is way too low.. it was starting 50-60k for fresh grads just a few years ago.

Software development is such a mobile work force too vs plumbing, electrical etc. Granted it depends on case to case basis.

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

[godwin]

Most reputable places don't do 14+ hours a day, unless it is crunch time. The company is on the rocks if it do that constantly. Only badly managed companies do that.

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

[iEatClams]

The other thing I think is it is not a fair playing field within the food industry too. The program intrinsically limits it to large corporations which can leverage the economy of scale, vs small mom and pop operations.

I think the gov infrastructure is cut back so badly, they can't really oversee the function of such program without issues not popping up.

this was a huge concern for my pops, he's no longer in the business, but he remembers bidding for contracts and sees all these other super low bids and wonders, they must be using illegal immigrants or some sort.

It does give an unfair advantage and doesn't create an equal playing field.

[supremematt85]

Say good bye to chinese restaurants in Richmond
Posted via RS Mobile

[iEatClams]

It's also hypocritical for employers to say: that's how the free market works.if you don't do it, we'll hire the next guy lining up to do your job, but then complain when the other side of the coin does the same thing, if you don't pay us more, you wont be able to retain us as employees.

[godwin]

That is the SaveBCFilms all over again. i think the issue is both sides employer and employee have an incentive to make noises and they make noises just to get attention.


I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

[stewie]

Do people seriously think that Canadians, especially in an expensive city like Vancouver, would want to do hard physical labour on a farm planting and harvesting crops, or working in unsanitary conditions with cows for $12/hour??

:heckno:


im sure theres quite a few homeless people that would jump on that job in a heart beat. they'd get to stay at the farm, eat, have a bed, and earn some money at the same time. they'd be so far away from the other crack heads that they wouldn't have a chance to buy drugs while there (hopefully).

Here in Smithers the mcdonalds owner has recently hired 3 TFW workers. This has caused a shitstorm with the current people who work there. Being a small town I know the owner and some employees. The old employees are pissed because the new workers are being offered the overtime hours.

things like that are what makes me glad im in a union. shit like that doesn't fly. ive put in 10 years where i work, first few years id get maybe 1 OT job per 2-3 months...if that...now that im a lot higher up on the seniority rank, if someone below me was offered an OT job before i was, id flip shit and file a grievance. not to be a dick, but because we know whats right and whats fair, and we make damn sure it stays that way.

[godwin]

There are places eg Hope Farm (http://mustardseed.ca/hope-farm-healing-centre/) on the island.

Unfortunately work without counselling support is pointless, not to mention you need the person to believe they need help in order for this to work. Most farms are just not equipped to do that. The problem with Vancouver especially DTES is homeless is a mix of mentally ill that will be better institutionalized and people who can't afford to live.. usually they are intertwined.

I highly recommend just seeing / volunteering at DTES to experience the situation. Yes there are homeless people who want to work at a farm, but if they can't even take their meds regularly, they can't show up on time and work.

im sure theres quite a few homeless people that would jump on that job in a heart beat. they'd get to stay at the farm, eat, have a bed, and earn some money at the same time. they'd be so far away from the other crack heads that they wouldn't have a chance to buy drugs while there (hopefully).

[Mr.HappySilp]

40k is way too low.. it was starting 50-60k for fresh grads just a few years ago.

Software development is such a mobile work force too vs plumbing, electrical etc. Granted it depends on case to case basis.

LOL I made 42k + as a help desk support... 40k for a software development? In their dreams lol. Not enough people willing to work for low paying jobs? There are tons of ppl willing to work those jobs but of course they also want to be treated fairly such as getting paid with OT when there is OT, have breaks for meal. While Temp workers doesn't care a thing even if they made $5/hour because it is still a lot better than what they make.

Really there are no shortage of workers for food industry or service industry as a whole just the greedy business want to make more so they cut wages and benfits which only foreign is willing to take.

[FS1992EG]

wow!

[Timpo]

Abusing workers can mean for example Tim Hortons franchise owner driving the foreign workers to their bank to ask
the to cash overtime cheques to pay that cash back
to the owner. Check out cbc.ca. The Timmy's owner got caught with this abuse on the foreigners.

Timpo, if you hire a foreigner to do a job, high skilled like a cook, senior mining exec, or low skill job like a hotel clerk, owner must pay the same average median wage paid to a Canadian for
that job. No lower wages.

In fact, employers must pay for airfare and help provide or find housing for
the foreign workers. It actually costs more to hire a foreign worker for low skilled jobs because of airfare to bring them into Canada.

So why do some employers like McD's give more work
shifts to foreign workers than Canadians? Do they work harder and are more reliable than Canadians?
That can be disputed. The McD's managers in Victoria franchises make
that argument for foreigners based on work
ethic and reliability.

Criminal investigations and prosecution for employers who intimidate foreign workers and do
other illegal things like take overtime pay in cash back from
foreigners are happening.


Who said that the government is just going after abusive employers?

If an immigration lawyer is illegally charging workers a fee for say $20,000 to
work in Canada, TFW program has staff who work with the RCMP to investigate these lawyers too.

Foreign workers can call anonymously
the TFW TIPS line to report employer and third party lawyer abuses of the program.
Just google Temporary Foreign Worker
Program to get more info.
A busy day at TFW. Sigh.
Posted via RS Mobile

ok thanks for the explanations, makes more sense now

They CONS originally allowed employers to pay tfw's 15% less in wages but iirc when this matter began getting media attention Harper had removed this benefit starting 2014 :rolleyes:

But the issue isn't just with fast food joints they were/are doing it with mining they recently wanted to import a force of Chinese miners who didn't know anything and needed to be trained by locals who would get to keep their jobs until they trained these guys :rolleyes: the company claimed a lack of miners available locally which was bs, luckily media attention and unions got involved

so they don't get that 15% off anymore? so I guess there really is no benefits if they wanna save some cash

[Timpo]

This is only my personal point of view.

If those business owners want to hire foreigners, just let them.
It may sound unfair or whatever, but Canadian business owners need hardworking employees too.

Kids nowadays in Canada and US, they don't even know what loyalty is.
They tend to slack off, expect employers to treat them like gold, etc.
I'm not saying they should work like a slave, but they definitely need to have more work ethics.

Even(most of) our generation, so called 'Generation Y' (Google it if you don't know) tend to quit their job so fast. You make a mistake, your boss yells at you, they would simply say "oh fuck this, I quit!"

If I was a business owner, I would rather have a hardworking foreigner than some Canadian or American kids who would come in late all the time, quite their job right away if anything happens, etc.

This is happening in Japan. It's actually becoming a huge problem. Larger Japanese companies, Honda, Sony, Japan Airlines, Toyota, Panasonic...you name them, they are hiring foreigners like crazy.
Many Japanese people are left with no choice but to find a job elsewhere, Thailand is one of the biggest destination.
Those Japanese corporations' reason was, they had to find someone who can speak at least 2 languages fluently, understand cultural differences, have experience in other countries, etc. They said that the decision was necessary to survive in this global business field.

[Carl Johnson]

This is only my personal point of view.

If those business owners want to hire foreigners, just let them.
It may sound unfair or whatever, but Canadian business owners need hardworking employees too.

Kids nowadays in Canada and US, they don't even know what loyalty is.
They tend to slack off, expect employers to treat them like gold, etc.
I'm not saying they should work like a slave, but they definitely need to have more work ethics.

Even(most of) our generation, so called 'Generation Y' (Google it if you don't know) tend to quit their job so fast. You make a mistake, your boss yells at you, they would simply say "oh fuck this, I quit!"

If I was a business owner, I would rather have a hardworking foreigner than some Canadian or American kids who would come in late all the time, quite their job right away if anything happens, etc.

This is happening in Japan. It's actually becoming a huge problem. Larger Japanese companies, Honda, Sony, Japan Airlines, Toyota, Panasonic...you name them, they are hiring foreigners like crazy.
Many Japanese people are left with no choice but to find a job elsewhere, Thailand is one of the biggest destination.
Those Japanese corporations' reason was, they had to find someone who can speak at least 2 languages fluently, understand cultural differences, have experience in other countries, etc. They said that the decision was necessary to survive in this global business field.

Bette to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak up and remove all doubt.

[Mr.HappySilp]

This is only my personal point of view.

If those business owners want to hire foreigners, just let them.
It may sound unfair or whatever, but Canadian business owners need hardworking employees too.

Kids nowadays in Canada and US, they don't even know what loyalty is.
They tend to slack off, expect employers to treat them like gold, etc.
I'm not saying they should work like a slave, but they definitely need to have more work ethics.

Even(most of) our generation, so called 'Generation Y' (Google it if you don't know) tend to quit their job so fast. You make a mistake, your boss yells at you, they would simply say "oh fuck this, I quit!"

If I was a business owner, I would rather have a hardworking foreigner than some Canadian or American kids who would come in late all the time, quite their job right away if anything happens, etc.

This is happening in Japan. It's actually becoming a huge problem. Larger Japanese companies, Honda, Sony, Japan Airlines, Toyota, Panasonic...you name them, they are hiring foreigners like crazy.
Many Japanese people are left with no choice but to find a job elsewhere, Thailand is one of the biggest destination.
Those Japanese corporations' reason was, they had to find someone who can speak at least 2 languages fluently, understand cultural differences, have experience in other countries, etc. They said that the decision was necessary to survive in this global business field.

Sure it might start off like that but if I could replace the lazy people with cheaper workers why not get rib of the hard working ones too because I can cut cost. See where that is heading. You allow one step and is over.

TFWG should only bring in high skill workers not someone making min wages. Even then there should be some sort of law stating a company can only have a certain % of TFWG in the company say max 5% at most to ensure Canadians get job first.

[ForbiddenX]

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

Like someone said usually only during crunch time and when there are hard target dates you've got to meet. If you're working for EA Sports that means your summers since they release around Sept/Oct.

Seriously head to Silicon Valley though and work for a startup.

[KayC]

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

I am an IT recruiter here in Vancouver and I have placed fresh grads in 50-55k perm jobs with only co-op experiences. Developers with 1-2 years experience can usually get around 60k+.
Posted via RS Mobile

[pastarocket]

Check this out. A map of greater vancouver businesses, the "bad guys", that hire temporary foreign workers.

Businesses Employing Temporary Foreign Workers | NTFW (http://ntfw.ca/map-companies-hiring-temporary-foreign-workers/)

Website mapping businesses using temporary foreign workers | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2014/05/07/website-mapping-businesses-using-temporary-foreign-workers/)

[Mr.HappySilp]

Check this out. A map of greater vancouver businesses, the "bad guys", that hire temporary foreign workers.

Businesses Employing Temporary Foreign Workers | NTFW (http://ntfw.ca/map-companies-hiring-temporary-foreign-workers/)

Website mapping businesses using temporary foreign workers | News1130 (http://www.news1130.com/2014/05/07/website-mapping-businesses-using-temporary-foreign-workers/)

Wonder is it mostly fast food places LOL

[iEatClams]

I thought this was a great article on the subject from the Vancouver sun.



spoiler for article:



One of the hymns sung most enthusiastically from the business choir is praise for the free market.

But reports from across the country about temporary foreign workers displacing Canadians — the less-than -radical C.D. Howe institute reports Ottawa’s program boosted unemployment in B.C. by more than three percentage points — suggest that this is not about the free market at all; it’s about distorting the free market to serve special economic interests.

Turns out I’m not the only one to notice this particular elephant at the salad bar.

Kevin McQuillan, a professor with the University of Calgary’s School of Public Policy published a paper worrying that “temporary foreign workers could be distorting the labour market forces that would bring together more Canadian workers and jobs.”

“The country is not likely to benefit from a growing class of low-paid, temporary residents,” McQuillan warned in 2013. “Canada needs to make more effective use of its homegrown resources.”

Then there’s Christopher Worswick, an economist at Carleton University. He suspects labour market distortion caused by hiring cheap, temporary foreign workers will only lead to problems down the road by denying young Canadians access to traditional entry level jobs from which they gain valuable experience before transitioning into career employment.

And, finally, there’s Employment Minister Jason Kenney, who Thursday hastily suspended the scandalous program for the fast-food sector amid a deepening roar of public displeasure in the Tory heartland over accusations of abuse that ranged from forced kickbacks of overtime pay to usurious recruitment fees.

In a free market, scarcity drives price. If you can’t get something you want, you pay what the market dictates in order to get it. Hence the big bump in gasoline prices at the pumps this week.

Refineries are switching over to summer production so for now there’s less gasoline available for retail. And people are driving more as the weather improves, so there’s greater demand. Demand goes up, supply goes down, and the prices we pay at the pump rise until we stop buying, then they go down again.

This principle should apply to domestic labour markets as much as it does to supply and demand for gasoline.

If the fast-food business is accurate in its claim there’s a scarcity of labour to fill their unskilled minimum wage jobs, wages should rise until those jobs become attractive enough to bring in Canadian workers who can fill them.

Instead, these employers import minimum-wage employees from foreign labour pools where even the worst wage and working conditions in Canada look attractive. This enables business to artificially depress wages here.

To get these jobs, foreign workers must sign employment contracts. If they leave their jobs, they must to jump through all the hoops all over again. Government waxes enthusiastic about human rights and Canada’s record as a defender of such, but the plethora of stories we’re now hearing suggest Ottawa’s been asleep or complicit.

“Because of their lack of permanent status and their isolation, temporary migrant workers are especially vulnerable to exploitation and abuse,” warns the Canadian Council for Refugees. It gives B.C. a failing grade for its legislative protection of such workers.

So, let’s see, you’re in a minimum-wage, unskilled job on an employment contract with Colossus Corp. Family depends on what you can send home from your already meagre earnings.

Would you be likely to shop around for better work knowing some bureaucrat might deport you for a procedural work permit error? Are you likely or challenge a supervisor about overtime? No. You are going to keep your head down and shut up, work like a demon and probably not ask compensation for extra time.

Brazilian writer Paolo Freire eloquently and exhaustively explained the dynamic that renders the powerless most fearful of freedom — including the pursuit their rights — in his much-studied book Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

This is the backdrop against which apologists stick their thumbs in their suspenders and talk sanctimoniously about how employers love temporary foreign workers because there’s less turnover, they are loyal and work harder than lazy, entitled Canadians.

Translation: they are compliant, have few options and cost less.

Most of the arguments about needing temporary foreign workers to fill unfillable positions because no Canadians are available are self-serving rationalizations.

Employers hire foreign workers for unskilled jobs because, despite the words in the hymn book, they don’t really like the free market. They prefer to manipulate the market. And we’ve been enabling that manipulation.

This doesn’t grant xenophobes permission for hostility toward foreign workers who have done nothing wrong.

If Canada truly needs these workers, grant them landed immigrant status with the same rights, benefits and freedoms to sell their labour to the highest bidder that the rest of us supposedly enjoy in our supposedly free marketplace.


Stephen Hume: Foreign workers skew the market (http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/Temporary+foreign+workers+skew+market+Stephen+Hume/9777692/story.html)

[Harvey Specter]

Foreign worker program made immigration consultants in Surrey big money because people in countries like India are willing to pay upwards of $50k to get their kids out. And there's a lot of businesses out there used as fronts just to bring in foreign workers.

[will068]

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

Agreed. I'm in the IT field. In the past 3 years, we laid off 50 percent of our staff in our branch (s/w developers , qa testers, business analysts etc.). The ones who were laid off early were the ones that were getting paid 6 figures and were old.

Recently, we have been hiring again. But now, it's younger folks with much cheaper salaries. Even from the dot com bubble burst of the early 2000, there are TONS of IT professionals out there that never got their foot back in the IT industry and had to switch careers.

[iEatClams]

It's only going to get worst. They have started doing it for regular construction jobs! Trades are now bring affected. There are contractors that have applied for the program and have been bringing in joe some construction guys. Even east Indian builders use it to bring people here to work. This is one of the reasons how they get the price down to $90 per sq ft. To build a house.

My friends and I have written to our MPs and j suggested those concerned do the same. It starts off with fast food and retail but its now in trades and constructions, and you can't tell me you need foreign workers in Vancouver to put up drywall.

[stewie]

It's only going to get worst. They have started doing it for regular construction jobs! Trades are now bring affected. There are contractors that have applied for the program and have been bringing in joe some construction guys. Even east Indian builders use it to bring people here to work. This is one of the reasons how they get the price down to $90 per sq ft. To build a house.

My friends and I have written to our MPs and j suggested those concerned do the same. It starts off with fast food and retail but its now in trades and constructions, and you can't tell me you need foreign workers in Vancouver to put up drywall.

when houses are being built, couple guys in my dept or myself have to go to the house to hook up their water lines or upgrade the water line from a 3/4" to a 1" line from the watermain. 99% of the guys i work with have construction backgrounds, and while the houses are being built and are still just a frame they cut corners like no other...doing anything to save a few bucks. makes me question the inspector who checks out the house (specifically by east indians...from what ive personally seen...not all, but a LOT). its as if they put the house up as fast as humanly possible for as cheap as they can so they can pocket more, just so they can start a new house and get more money.