[wankeldude2]

I usually post as wankeldude, but for whatever reason it's not letting me post or even send a PM using that account. I joined in 2005 and I'm sure it's just a glitch of some sort... So until I get that rectified, here's my post:

I have a very serious business opportunity to purchase a gas station in the Lower Mainland and wanted to conduct a survey to see what people in the area thought about being able to get E85 fuel out of a gas station pump without having to cross the border or buy drums or jerry cans. If you have a moment, please take some time to fill out this survey. It will help us solidify plans to bring in E85 to a gas station pump in the Greater Vancouver area.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Fuel_Survey_2014

Thanks for your time

[Ch28]

http://i.imgur.com/hBBhVFP.gif

[wankeldude2]

lol. I'm really excited about this too (my flex fuel GT-R runs much better on E85) But really need folks to do the survey so the financial models make sense.

Thanks guys!

[godwin]

With Calgary / Bakkan fuel so much closer.. how are you going to undercut them with Ethanol? (typically find out in mid west eg Iowa etc). Not to mention Ethanol is primarily US product with the exchange rate not benefiting you, you must have some financial wizardry to make the model work.

[wankeldude2]

With Calgary / Bakkan fuel so much closer.. how are you going to undercut them with Ethanol? (typically find out in mid west eg Iowa etc). Not to mention Ethanol is primarily US product with the exchange rate not benefiting you, you must have some financial wizardry to make the model work.

Very good points. We understand this is going to be a niche market strictly. I highly doubt any regular flex fuel cars will use it. But if enough folks with tuned vehicles do, it's enough to make it worthwhile.

And yes, it can be imported by tanker truck if you pay the right excise and federal taxes. Although Greenfield does have a local distribution point for fuel grade ethanol...so it's looking like the price point doesn't have to be silly to make sense for consumer and retailer

[Manic!]

My family has owned a gas station for 22 plus years and I have a few questions.

Were are you going to get E85? Non of the major brands Esso, Shell etc carry it. Being with a major brand helps.

Do you know how much it's going to cost to set up a new tank and pump for E85? It's not cheap.

What type of tanks does the gas station have? Steel, dual wall steel fibreglass or dual wall fibreglass. Also how old are they?

Do the pumps except chip and pin credit/debit cards? If not you will need new pumps. They are 25k each plus install.

How many litres of gas does it sell a year? It should be in the millions.

I would look at all the costs associated with selling E85 then figure out how many litres you would need to sell to make it worth your while. I'm thinking it would be around 400 to 500K a year in litres.


Edit:

Also what are you going to do I there is a problem with the fuel and cars have problems?

[Hehe]

Now we can finally see c-lais in Richmond with Ferrari FF and/or Koenigsegg CCXR maximizing their potential. :fuckthatshit:

[murd0c]

What gas station are you looking to purchase?

Biggest concern is as Manic said would be have the dispensers been EMV upgraded, you can get EMV kits for the doors which are the same but Gilbarco is having major issues right now and once the warranty is up I sell a spot display to contractors for for $3100 each, EMV card reader $1100 each, EMV Keypad $2000 each in which the contractors mark up 35% plus labour to install these itesm

The tanks will be fine since there are no steel tanks in the lower mainland but you need to be concerned what kind of underground piping, how old the STP's are and the Veeder Root fuel monitoring with tank probes will need to be upgraded. If it's a ESSO does it have the new passport POS system?

For E85 there isn't enough need for it yet, it's a great idea but if you are not re-piping the whole site it will cost way too much cash in the long run to see a decent profit.

It's great to own a gas station since I work for the biggest distributor in Canada but out of anyone I know how much they cost

[meme405]

Next time try to contain yourself to one thread in one section.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/694809-e85-coming-gas-station-vancouver-bc-canada.html

Also we have a thread specifically for people who want others to do surveys:

http://www.revscene.net/forums/677331-official-i-need-some-help-survey-thread.html

But to answer your question; No I don't care at all for E85, and the only reason others would care at all is if it was significantly cheaper, and even then I doubt you will get it cheap enough that people would actually drive out of their way to go to your station.

[wankeldude2]

What gas station are you looking to purchase?

Biggest concern is as Manic said would be have the dispensers been EMV upgraded, you can get EMV kits for the doors which are the same but Gilbarco is having major issues right now and once the warranty is up I sell a spot display to contractors for for $3100 each, EMV card reader $1100 each, EMV Keypad $2000 each in which the contractors mark up 35% plus labour to install these itesm

The tanks will be fine since there are no steel tanks in the lower mainland but you need to be concerned what kind of underground piping, how old the STP's are and the Veeder Root fuel monitoring with tank probes will need to be upgraded. If it's a ESSO does it have the new passport POS system?

For E85 there isn't enough need for it yet, it's a great idea but if you are not re-piping the whole site it will cost way too much cash in the long run to see a decent profit.

It's great to own a gas station since I work for the biggest distributor in Canada but out of anyone I know how much they cost

PM incoming!

[wankeldude2]

Next time try to contain yourself to one thread in one section.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/694809-e85-coming-gas-station-vancouver-bc-canada.html

Also we have a thread specifically for people who want others to do surveys:

http://www.revscene.net/forums/677331-official-i-need-some-help-survey-thread.html

But to answer your question; No I don't care at all for E85, and the only reason others would care at all is if it was significantly cheaper, and even then I doubt you will get it cheap enough that people would actually drive out of their way to go to your station.

Will do, thank you for the info. Yes you are absolutely right, it is going to be a very specific niche market and not a main stream product. I highly doubt we will see FlexFuel caravans coming in to fuel with with E85.

[murd0c]

PM incoming!

You should look into DEF more then E85 right now since it's mandatory on all diesel trucks and company's like Flying J and CO-OP are spending lots of money in the lower Fraser Valley since the margins are higher then any fuel currently.

[R. Mutt]

[...] the only reason others would care at all is if it was significantly cheaper, and even then I doubt you will get it cheap enough that people would actually drive out of their way to go to your station.

Actually I know a lot of people in the tuning community who reside in Poco, Surrey, Langley, Richmond, Vancouver who would LOVE to have access to E85 at the pump.

The reality about the car scene in Vancouver is most people care about aesthetics - and nothing is wrong with that...to each his own. However, there are a lot of others, albeit quiet in terms of presence at meets and the forum, who spend a lot of money toward making power.

I can tell you as a fact that many Evo 8,9 and 10 owners would convert to E85 in a heartbeat given the detonation resistance and power potential of the fuel.Shit many of the Evo's that were brought in from the US were retuned because they were mapped for E85...as such the power went down for safety and motor longevity.

Many of us see what the cars are making in the US while we have to look at alternatives such as Methanol injection or straight race fuel. An evo making 350whp on pump gas can make 450-500whp by just switching to E85. Big turbo evos that make 500whp on pump are cracking out 700-800+ whp! If you look into the GT-R and Supra community it's the same story there...E85 FTW!

E85 requires an ethanol compatible fuel system - pump, much larger injectors and tuning but the power potential is amazing. RacingGreed has started bringing in barrels for some of their customers because people do want it.

I think it's good you're doing the survey though as it is likely a niche market but I can tell you that there are guys out there, such as myself, who are just begging for this to happen. The fact of the matter is the very guys who'd buy it probably don't even come on the forum, or lurk if they're here at all.

[meme405]

The fact of the matter is the very guys who'd buy it probably don't even come on the forum, or lurk if they're here at all.

You and 5 other guys spending $100 a week on E85 isn't going to get this guy anywhere.

He needs the general public to buy into the flex fuel trend, and since 99% of the fuel sales are to this general public and 99.9% of that general public doesn't give a rats ass about anything besides price, its a tough sell.

[meme405]

Also Anyone in Langley or Surrey/whiterock or anywhere close to the border could easily (and does) just hop over the border and pump gas.

Not only can they get E85 already over the border they also save 40 cents a litre.

[wankeldude2]

Actually I know a lot of people in the tuning community who reside in Poco, Surrey, Langley, Richmond, Vancouver who would LOVE to have access to E85 at the pump.

The reality about the car scene in Vancouver is most people care about aesthetics - and nothing is wrong with that...to each his own. However, there are a lot of others, albeit quiet in terms of presence at meets and the forum, who spend a lot of money toward making power.

I can tell you as a fact that many Evo 8,9 and 10 owners would convert to E85 in a heartbeat given the detonation resistance and power potential of the fuel.Shit many of the Evo's that were brought in from the US were retuned because they were mapped for E85...as such the power went down for safety and motor longevity.

Many of us see what the cars are making in the US while we have to look at alternatives such as Methanol injection or straight race fuel. An evo making 350whp on pump gas can make 450-500whp by just switching to E85. Big turbo evos that make 500whp on pump are cracking out 700-800+ whp! If you look into the GT-R and Supra community it's the same story there...E85 FTW!

E85 requires an ethanol compatible fuel system - pump, much larger injectors and tuning but the power potential is amazing. RacingGreed has started bringing in barrels for some of their customers because people do want it.

I think it's good you're doing the survey though as it is likely a niche market but I can tell you that there are guys out there, such as myself, who are just begging for this to happen. The fact of the matter is the very guys who'd buy it probably don't even come on the forum, or lurk if they're here at all.

thanks for the feedback. Definitely a specific niche market. I have posted on the evo forum. if you have any other suggestions please PM me.

[wankeldude2]

You and 5 other guys spending $100 a week on E85 isn't going to get this guy anywhere.

He needs the general public to buy into the flex fuel trend, and since 99% of the fuel sales are to this general public and 99.9% of that general public doesn't give a rats ass about anything besides price, its a tough sell.

Based on our financial modeling, we do need a few hundred customers filling up twice a month with E85 to make it worth our while.

I myself have been travelling down to Marysville myself for the past year to get jerry cans of E85 brought back up. There are companies that sell drums as well, but I think nothing beats the convenience of simply being able to pump and go without the hassle of the border.

[wankeldude2]

My family has owned a gas station for 22 plus years and I have a few questions.

Were are you going to get E85? Non of the major brands Esso, Shell etc carry it. Being with a major brand helps.

Do you know how much it's going to cost to set up a new tank and pump for E85? It's not cheap.

What type of tanks does the gas station have? Steel, dual wall steel fibreglass or dual wall fibreglass. Also how old are they?

Do the pumps except chip and pin credit/debit cards? If not you will need new pumps. They are 25k each plus install.

How many litres of gas does it sell a year? It should be in the millions.

I would look at all the costs associated with selling E85 then figure out how many litres you would need to sell to make it worth your while. I'm thinking it would be around 400 to 500K a year in litres.


Edit:

Also what are you going to do I there is a problem with the fuel and cars have problems?

Thanks for the feedback and all very good questions. The tanks and pipes have already been replaced in the late 90's - double walled fiberglass and non-metal piping. The supply is currently being negotiated. There are suppliers in the states that can bring tankers up, but there is also the possibility of supply by local petroleum distributors getting ethanol portion from Greenfield.

We are analyzing the financial models and do believe this is a viable business plan, but are conducting the survey to get some idea of captive market and how much of that market we can capture.

[noclue]

Where exactly in the lower mainland is this business? If it's coquitlam, no one from central burnaby onward will be willing to drive out that far. Even if its in burnaby, people from richmond will rather take the highway to the USA.

From what I heard you need to sell at least 7million litres a year for a gas station + at least 100k monthly store sales to make decent money. But then the purchasing price will be high.

[R. Mutt]

You and 5 other guys spending $100 a week on E85 isn't going to get this guy anywhere.

He needs the general public to buy into the flex fuel trend, and since 99% of the fuel sales are to this general public and 99.9% of that general public doesn't give a rats ass about anything besides price, its a tough sell.

Yes I think it will be a tough sell to the average Joe but my assumption was the OP is already aware that he's aiming for a niche market. Likewise he said few hundred people filling up twice a month. Unlikely? Maybe in the beginning; impossible? No. If there's is only 1 place to get E85 at the pump then all the volume goes there...not so? I think that's why he came to RS in the first place...to gauge interest and I think the more performance oriented members would love to have E85 available.

There are many forced induction vehicles running on strictly pump gas (STIs, DSM, Talons, Evos, turbo civics, turbo.supercharged mustangs, RX7s, Golfs, Supras, GT-Rs - lots of RHD R32s and the big guys with their R35s as well) around that would benefit from switching. I'm missing a lot of the other forced induction vehicles but you get the idea. The same way some people drive out of their way to save $ and get better quality gas, is the same way some people will go out of their way in order to get E85...it's that good performance wise.

It is very easy for you to say that me and "five people" would like this, but I have seen enough crazy forced induction cars with owners in person in the short 4 years I have lived in Vancouver to know that RevScene isn't an accurate representation of the number of performance oriented vehicles out there. I am certainly not alone in wishing for something cheaper than race gas but better than chevron 94 and shell 91. Something that's safer and more reliable than methanol injection.

Likewise, it only takes a few guys in their club clusters to start converting and making great numbers on the dyno with E85 for others to decide they too want to follow suit. It is a car community after all and things happen in trends via word of mouth, internet et al. If you see someone with the same mods as you, and they're making 50-75 more whp then you'd probably do it too.

Also Anyone in Langley or Surrey/whiterock or anywhere close to the border could easily (and does) just hop over the border and pump gas.

Not only can they get E85 already over the border they also save 40 cents a litre.

Valid point regarding the border as an option, but where are you getting your figures from if the OP has yet to figure out his price/liter?

In like manner, one could argue that people who run pump gas hop over the border because it exists as an option: petrol is available everywhere and therefore the option exists to put gas here or cross the border without the risk of running the tank empty.

People who strictly run E85 (IE Not flex fuel compatible) do one of two things:

1. Store it themselves
2. Have access to a station near home/work.

Let's say the average Joe decides to convert to E85 because he wants to make more power and options 1 and 2 do not exist, there is only one other possibility to my knowledge: dual map setup (Pump/E85). Outside of ECU reflashing on a handful of vehicles you'd have to run a standalone system like the AEM Infinity with flex fuel capabilities and I don't think that's an option for the average Joe. In this sense I like that he's doing the survey to see how far away potential customers are and how many of those potentials would be willing to drive to the location.

[godwin]

Since E85 doesn't play nice with plastic fuel system piping that had not been designed for it explicitly. You are limited to a market of cars that are post 2000. Most RHD, RX7 etc etc would need upgrades (basically upgrade to thinwall steel). The quandary is while you might see benefits of e85 in newer cars, to fully take advantage of it is more complicated needing remap etc.

It is a niche market for sure and OP might want to put it near Mission or nearby racetracks.


There are many forced induction vehicles running on strictly pump gas (STIs, DSM, Talons, Evos, turbo civics, turbo.supercharged mustangs, RX7s, Golfs, Supras, GT-Rs - lots of RHD R32s and the big guys with their R35s as well) around that would benefit from switching. I'm missing a lot of the other forced induction vehicles but you get the idea. The same way some people drive out of their way to save $ and get better quality gas, is the same way some people will go out of their way in order to get E85...it's that good performance wise.

[Manic!]

The more I think about the more it does not make financial sense. Gas stations on the mainland are making dick all on gas right now. I don't think many people will pay extra for E85. It's going to sell less that Premium or diesel.

Tanks are only good for 25 years. If they were replaced in the late 90's you will need to replace then in less than 10 years.

[R. Mutt]

[...]You are limited to a market of cars that are post 2000. Most RHD, RX7 etc etc would need upgrades (basically upgrade to thinwall steel). The quandary is while you might see benefits of e85 in newer cars, to fully take advantage of it is more complicated needing remap etc.


A mkIV Supra is a pre 2000 car and many in the US use e85 and higher. Like I said before it requires an ethanol compatible fuel system. For most cars this will mean the pump, reg, rail, lines and injectors must be swapped. Many of these aftermarket parts are already ethanol compatible and I'd be willing to guess most turbo cars have have already upgraded at least one if not all those parts to aftermarket. The injectors are really upgraded because you need to flow a lot more fuel with ethanol.

As far as tuning...yes it does require remapping, but there are a number of shops that in both Vancouver and across the border than are more than capable of doing that...even remotely if the customer cannot come to them. Likewise if someone is self proficient the foundation of the remapping is a matter of re-scaling the injectors and latency tables for the new injectors and re-balancing your air:fuel ratios....that's it. Once the injectors are dialed in for partial throttle and idle you can move onto full throttle tuning and get your retarget appropriate AFRs for e85.

[murd0c]

The more I think about the more it does not make financial sense. Gas stations on the mainland are making dick all on gas right now. I don't think many people will pay extra for E85. It's going to sell less that Premium or diesel.

Tanks are only good for 25 years. If they were replaced in the late 90's you will need to replace then in less than 10 years.

You are incorrect about the tanks being only good for 25 years... They hydro test the older tanks and get passed by the engineers if there is a concern but most of the time you don't have to worry at all if they are fibreglass tanks since they are double wall and has a veeder root interstitial monitor on top of the normal tank probs.

I'm the Canadian supplier for ZCL tanks, Gilbarco, Franklin fueling so I know what I'm talking about.

[trollface]

Just sell it in 1L coke bottles.

[Manic!]

You are incorrect about the tanks being only good for 25 years... They hydro test the older tanks and get passed by the engineers if there is a concern but most of the time you don't have to worry at all if they are fibreglass tanks since they are double wall and has a veeder root interstitial monitor on top of the normal tank probs.

I'm the Canadian supplier for ZCL tanks, Gilbarco, Franklin fueling so I know what I'm talking about.

Good to know they will last longer than 25 years.
We just installed some new ZCL tanks last year. Decided to go bigger and get diesel.

[vitaminG]

Valid point regarding the border as an option, but where are you getting your figures from if the OP has yet to figure out his price/liter?

even regular is about $0.30 a liter less in usa, it'll probably be even more than $0.40 and you'll still have to go out of your way to do it.

[wankeldude2]

even regular is about $0.30 a liter less in usa, it'll probably be even more than $0.40 and you'll still have to go out of your way to do it.

It's all going to depend on supply and demand. And taxes. And overhead. And insurance.

But we are trying to keep it close to the cost of Chevron 94. I think worse case scenario it may be marginally more than that per litre.

[Presto]

But we are trying to keep it close to the cost of Chevron 94. I think worse case scenario it may be marginally more than that per litre.

IMHO, combined with the lower energy content, and higher price, this is going to be a tough sell here. In the US, due to government corn subsidies, E85 has the big advantage of being cheaper than regular fossil fuel (by volume). That kind of makes up for the lower energy content of E85, but the reality is that people see the significantly lower price at the the pump, and that's what attracts the general public. Unless people really need >94 octane, they're not gonna spend more on something that costs more by volume, and gives them less mileage.

[murd0c]

Good to know they will last longer than 25 years.
We just installed some new ZCL tanks last year. Decided to go bigger and get diesel.

What site do you guys own? We might of spoken before lol
Posted via RS Mobile

[Manic!]

What site do you guys own? We might of spoken before lol
Posted via RS Mobile

It's a Esso on Uplands in Nanaimo. 2 pumps. Had a bunch of work done last summer. Tanks, pumps passport system.

[murd0c]

Yup I know your site, Mark Rennie sold it all to you. I'm his inside guy and cover before him while on vacation lol
Posted via RS Mobile

[meme405]

Wait so this shit is going to cost even more than Premium up here.

:failed:

Your never going to sell any, to anyone outside the friends of R.Mutt. Don't waste your energy pursuing this.

Just like teenage boys think with their penis', adults think with their wallets, and spending more money, on effectively less gas mileage is something nobody is going to do.

There is a reason big gas companies are not importing the stuff, there is no money to be made in it.

[wankeldude2]

Wait so this shit is going to cost even more than Premium up here.

:failed:

Your never going to sell any, to anyone outside the friends of R.Mutt. Don't waste your energy pursuing this.

Just like teenage boys think with their penis', adults think with their wallets, and spending more money, on effectively less gas mileage is something nobody is going to do.

There is a reason big gas companies are not importing the stuff, there is no money to be made in it.

Thanks for the words of wisdom. We are not targeting main stream consumers of Flex Fuel. This is a niche market with a great potential given current interest.

[R. Mutt]

One thing I am curious about if this does happen will it be true e85 or will we be seeing a winter blend during the colder months? If the ethanol content is lower and we are seeing as low as e75 during the winter then will the price reflect this accordingly?

I didn't even think about the fact that it is subsidized in the US due to vast corn production. Presto brings up a good point.

[wankeldude2]

One thing I am curious about if this does happen will it be true e85 or will we be seeing a winter blend during the colder months? If the ethanol content is lower and we are seeing as low as e75 during the winter then will the price reflect this accordingly?

I didn't even think about the fact that it is subsidized in the US due to vast corn production. Presto brings up a good point.

There are specific regulations with respect to vapour pressure. In the warmer months, we can definitely have a true E85 blend, but the seasonality will likely require us to drop down to E75 when it's colder. We are still looking into this as nobody in BC has ever supplied E85 even though the regulations are already in place. I myself would definitely prefer to sell a true E85 product year round if it's allowed.

[Presto]

The winters here aren't too bad, but I've read that E85 starts rough in cold weather (<5c). Cold temps will also produce worse fuel economy. Winter may be a wash for E85. Since you're aiming for niche, have you considered offering high-octane race fuel, instead? I applaud your effort, but you have quite a steep hill to scale!

[wankeldude2]

The winters here aren't too bad, but I've read that E85 starts rough in cold weather (<5c). Cold temps will also produce worse fuel economy. Winter may be a wash for E85. Since you're aiming for niche, have you considered offering high-octane race fuel, instead? I applaud your effort, but you have quite a steep hill to scale!

Most definitely a steep hill, but things are coming together.
My car has been running on full E85 for the past year and the tune already adjusts for cold start on E85 and it starts up like a champ!

We did consider importing Sunoco race fuels as well, and that plan may be in our future, but for now we are focusing on E85 because there seems to be quite a bit of demand for it.

[Manic!]

Most definitely a steep hill, but things are coming together.
My car has been running on full E85 for the past year and the tune already adjusts for cold start on E85 and it starts up like a champ!

We did consider importing Sunoco race fuels as well, and that plan may be in our future, but for now we are focusing on E85 because there seems to be quite a bit of demand for it.

B&G Race Fuels Sunoco (http://bgracefuels.com/)

[wankeldude2]

more feedback please...

[sonick]

Just sell it in 1L coke bottles.

http://ib4.huluim.com/video/10970775?region=US&size=600x400

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111124054648/itsalwayssunny/images/c/c8/Business_plan.jpg

[borat787]

I like E85 but it's a bad business idea. No one's going to put E85 or tune their car for E85 just because of one gas station. People would be like wtf is that and just press 91/94. Not worth.

[wankeldude2]

Gas station is coming online. We took over as of July 1. Should be selling E85 very soon!

[TjAlmeida]

I don't know a thing about fuel. But from what I was told I would even be happy with a true 94 octane. Not the shit chevron sells.

[Manic!]

Is this the place? https://www.google.ca/maps/place/4370+Marine+Dr/@49.340804,-123.239779,3a,26.8y,202.2h,85.9t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjh7WmViCpAxRJV8Xp6YkwA!2e0!4m2 !3m1!1s0x54866c35c2870983:0xd9b34f51d108c511!6m1!1 e1

How current is the pic?

[jing]

^ Date stamp on the referenced picture states July 2012.

[Manic!]

^ Date stamp on the referenced picture states July 2012.

but dos it look the same as the pic?

[EvoFire]

Address?

[Manic!]

Address?

4375 marine dr west van.

[meme405]

I literally just came back here to bump this thread, because this new "Arcade" gas station has been blowing up my FB feed.

Good to see you got it going, I was skeptical, about the feasibility, but I wish you guys the best of luck.

Also perfect location to put it. Well played sir.

[TheStig]

I think it's a great idea, thanks for getting this done. For those of us using ethanol, it's a heck of a lot more convenient than the alternative sourcing we've been doing, and compared with VP Fuels and the like purchased locally, it's much cheaper. Good job!

[dj.ac]

Time to get an aem infinity, double pumper, and bigger injectors!

[dj.ac]

4375 marine dr west van.

Is this the location?
If so, that's too far for me :(

[vitaminG]

Is this the location?
If so, that's too far for me :(

theres this place just south of surrey where e85 is readily available and way cheaper than this guy is selling.

[IMASA]

theres this place just south of surrey where e85 is readily available and way cheaper than this guy is selling.

Got address?

[godwin]

I think he is implying Blaine (South of Surrey)

But he doesn't realize the closest one is at Oak Harbor (http://www.e85vehicles.com/e85-stations/e85-washington.html) which is way further than West Van.

Got address?

[G106]

Nice choice of location. E85 local is a big step in the right direction, atleast for us turbo guys. Thanks Amir

[CCA-Dave]

Came back to this post to say I drove past an E85 sign yesterday...turns out its the exact station in question. Will need to stop in, I've been meaning to check out the classic car collection for some time now.

-Dave

[sonick]

GermanBoost - Over 500 whp already out of the 2015 BMW F80 M3? Yep. BMS JB4 tuned S55 turbo inline-6 ethanol (E85) testing shows 539 wheel horsepower (http://www.germanboost.com/content.php?5031-Over-500-whp-already-out-of-the-2015-BMW-F80-M3-Yep-BMS-JB4-tuned-S55-turbo-inline-6-ethanol-(E85)-testing-shows-539-wheel-horsepower)

:notbad:

[1exotic]

E85 is tha shit, can't wait till it opens.

I plan to run 10% E85 mix with pump gas. Just have 2 MAP's done on the AEM V2 so can switch whenever I'm not running the mix. Should bring the Octane up enough to run 24/25psi where as I'm stuck up to about 21 on pump. Thought about running straight E85 but seems a bit unpractical at this point with 1 station, especially if the car travels somewhere there's no E85.

[IMASA]

Same, I plan to run 10-20% E85 mixed with 94. My car can't run 100% E85 without clogging up the CDFP. The station is kinda far for me, but I figure I can bring some 20L jugs and go once a month.

[R. Mutt]

Those looking to run E85 in any capacity will need to get a Ethanol Content Analyzer. Zeitronix has a series of nice kits:

Zeitronix ECA : SEMA Award Winning Ethanol Content Analyzer and Flex Fuel Sensor for E-85 and E-85/gasoline Blends (http://zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA2.shtml)

Inline sensor
http://zeitronix.com/images/ECA/FlexSensorFlowThrough_250.gif

and the analyzer (Gauge or Screen which can be neatly hidden away in the glove box or center console :agree:)
http://zeitronix.com/images/ECA/x150/ECA_blue.gifhttp://zeitronix.com/images/ECA/x150/E-GaugeBlue_150.gif

If you're looking to output 0-5V signals for Fuel Temp and Ethanol % to your ECU, EMS or logging software then you want the ECA-2
http://zeitronix.com/images/ECA/x150/ECA-2_150.gif

Beauty of this is for guys who want to run some E85 but can't switch entirely for practical reason you fill a gas container and add a % mix in the 10-15% range pretty safely to raise your octane. Of course this won't do much for most cars, but if you have the ability to tune for it you can make nice gains (depending on your setup) by turning up the boost, advancing timing. But even for some OEM cars you're effectively eliminating knock by running much higher octane gas without having to run a fully compliant ethanol fuel system (pump+injectors in most cases). It's essentially like buying really good gas from the US as many station raise their PON by mixing in a percentage of ethanol into the gas (and say so on the pump "may contain up to X% ethanol). I plan to do this on my car as the station is about a 35 minute drive from home and I do not wish to run a $2000+ EMS system for true flex fuel compatibility.

[1exotic]

bruh
Best Bruh Movement Vine Compilation (bruhmovement) - YouTube

[wankeldude2]

E85 is now available in West Vancouver, British Columbia.
Arcade station - 4370 Marine Drive

http://i.imgur.com/ZR71JpT.jpg

[TheStig]

Woooooooo! Awesome!

[IMASA]

Just in time for my new turbo. Looks like I'll be making a trip this weekend. How much per liter?

Hours of operation? Do you sell regular gas as well, if so, what kind? 94?

[wankeldude2]

Near 94 octane pricing. Right now it's $1.749 per litre. We are confident we can keep this current pricing with strong support!

[Manic!]

Near 94 octane pricing. Right now it's $1.749 per litre. We are confident we can keep this current pricing with strong support!

So what are you doing to guarantee quality and what are you doing to make sure no one puts E85 in a car that can't use it?

[kleensleper]

Good to see you're up & running.

[wankeldude2]

Good to see you're up & running.

Thanks! appreciate the support!

[wankeldude2]

So what are you doing to guarantee quality and what are you doing to make sure no one puts E85 in a car that can't use it?

1 - We are working directly with the producer
2 - In order to use E85, either we need to see a flex fuel badge/E85 on the cap or you sign a waiver saying you know what you're doing.

[IMASA]

Has anyone been here yet? What time do they open and close? Do they also carry 94 gas?

[freakshow]

Too often we see RSers start threads with big plans, but never make it happen, so props for following through and getting this done, and good luck to the business!

[sonick]

Too often we see RSers start threads with big plans, but never make it happen, so props for following through and getting this done, and good luck to the business!

What are you talking about, I have full faith that KungShoes.com will be successful and profitable for years to come.

[TjAlmeida]

Wonder if this becomes very popular, would regular gas stations consider carrying e85 throughout BC?

[Manic!]

Wonder if this becomes very popular, would regular gas stations consider carrying e85 throughout BC?

Don't think so. Your looking at a minimum of a 120k to set it up 2 pumps in a modern gas station. Not every gas station sells diesel and there are a lot more diesel vehicles than E85 vehicles.

[TheStig]

Has anyone been here yet? What time do they open and close? Do they also carry 94 gas?

I have several times, great guys and my car is running amazing on the stuff. Plus you can grab a bite at the cafe/store next door. They're open 7:30 AM - 9:00 PM every day, so it's pretty easy to avoid bridge traffic. I believe they have regular as well, not sure of the octane.

[wankeldude2]

Too often we see RSers start threads with big plans, but never make it happen, so props for following through and getting this done, and good luck to the business!

Thanks for the support! We are delighted we were able to get this up and running.

[wankeldude2]

Don't think so. Your looking at a minimum of a 120k to set it up 2 pumps in a modern gas station. Not every gas station sells diesel and there are a lot more diesel vehicles than E85 vehicles.

And funny enough, we are also the *only* diesel station in West Vancouver

[murd0c]

I'm impressed Keith was able to get fittings for the old APT pipe you have

[wankeldude2]

Got a chance to run the Arcade E85 GT-R today on the dyno...

http://www.revscene.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21985&stc=1&d=1407452127

[IMASA]

Nice. What does this beast make on pump gas?

[wankeldude2]

Nice. What does this beast make on pump gas?

700whp. Quite the difference with E85!

[trollguy]

wtf. 927? lol

[pingu81]

wtf. 927? lol

And that's on a Mustang dyno too! Great results!

[BBMme]

congratulation! good for you, something I thought off many many years ago, but never had the guts to do it.

[wankeldude2]

congratulation! good for you, something I thought off many many years ago, but never had the guts to do it.

Thanks! we're very proud to have been able to get this project off the ground.

[BrownBear]

If I mention I'm from revscene do I get a discount on e85? I'll be tuning my car for this sooner or later now :D. Thanks for doing this for the community. <3

[thumper]

not sure if i missed it but is there a website? http://www.arcadestation.ca redirects me to the facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/arcadeE85

[meme405]

not sure if i missed it but is there a website? http://www.arcadestation.ca redirects me to the facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/arcadeE85

Then it is safe to say they have not yet completed their website and for now they only have a FB page...

[wankeldude2]

If I mention I'm from revscene do I get a discount on e85? I'll be tuning my car for this sooner or later now :D. Thanks for doing this for the community. <3

We are definitely putting together a membership program. Stay tuned!

[wankeldude2]

Then it is safe to say they have not yet completed their website and for now they only have a FB page...

Working on it! :-)

[R. Mutt]

And that's on a Mustang dyno too! Great results!

Those are the dynojet corrected numbers (13%) Very impressive number nontheless.

I have been running 10% ethanol to a tank and the car is awesome. No knock and I can throw 4* more timing by redline (8k). I'm making more power and torque with less boost than I was a year ago. Just waiting on a 450lph walbro e85 pump, ethanol content analyzer and an upgraded wg actuator to arrive before I can turn up the boost to 30psi and run 100% E85 in the tank. My injectors are a little smaller than what's ideal but if I bump up the base pressure to 4bar I should be just above 80% injector duty cycle @ 30psi on a 49lbs/min turbo.

[wankeldude2]

Those are the dynojet corrected numbers (13%) Very impressive number nontheless.

I have been running 10% ethanol to a tank and the car is awesome. No knock and I can throw 4* more timing by redline (8k). I'm making more power and torque with less boost than I was a year ago. Just waiting on a 450lph walbro e85 pump, ethanol content analyzer and an upgraded wg actuator to arrive before I can turn up the boost to 30psi and run 100% E85 in the tank. My injectors are a little smaller than what's ideal but if I bump up the base pressure to 4bar I should be just above 80% injector duty cycle @ 30psi on a 49lbs/min turbo.

You are correct, these are dynojet corrected. My trap speed for my first mission quarter mile run ever in this car was pretty good at 148.3mph. weighed in at 4250lbs with me, golf clubs and my old exhaust in the trunk. Terrible ET of 10.2, but this was due to not launching properly and too much tire pressure... Still, I'm very impressed with this first run!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10659320_701137579940217_3870540544267557904_n.jpg ?oh=a29a2ee9ec9934560ac23ae4b8733d29&oe=54D113DB&__gda__=1422136583_5ad2971932e40cbee716f9ccd22146d f

[CCA-Dave]

Came in on fumes yesterday morning hoping to support a Revscene member...it appears the E85 has taken the place of premium fuel at the pump. Ah well. Thankfully made it to Dundarave, but it was close!

[wankeldude2]

Came in on fumes yesterday morning hoping to support a Revscene member...it appears the E85 has taken the place of premium fuel at the pump. Ah well. Thankfully made it to Dundarave, but it was close!

Appreciate the support! Sorry we couldn't help with premium though...
Just put an extra helping of E85 in there and you'll be fine! :-)

[EvoFire]

Dropped by on Sunday. Sorry I didn't fill anything, I didn't want to risk anything to the car and I was close to empty. Another when I'm tuned to be able to handle E85 for sure.

Nice place though!

[CCA-Dave]

Appreciate the support! Sorry we couldn't help with premium though...
Just put an extra helping of E85 in there and you'll be fine! :-)

Yeah, I considered running a couple of litres of regular to get me to Dundarave...but I'd rather not have a meltdown in the rally bug. Definitely wasn't going to toss E85 through the carbs!

Good to see you guys seem to be doing well though.

-Dave

[wankeldude2]

We are able to ship drums of E85 to pretty much anywhere in Canada at this point. BC and Alberta shipping is very reasonable. info@arcadestation.ca if you are interested.

[murd0c]

I believe my company is going to be quoting you on a new pump/dispenser, a coworker of mine was talking about your site the other week.

[wankeldude2]

I believe my company is going to be quoting you on a new pump/dispenser, a coworker of mine was talking about your site the other week.

news to me.

[dotdot]

Nice man

[wankeldude2]

IT’S WITH GREAT SADNESS THAT WE MUST SHUT DOWN OUR BELOVED LITTLE STATION. WE HAD BIG DREAMS OF BRINGING E85 TO THE MASSES AND AGAINST ALL ODDS WE TURNED OUR DREAMS INTO REALITY.$UNFORTUNATELY$WE’VE BEEN$DEALT AN$ENORMOUS FINANCIAL SETBACK AND THEREFORE CAN NO LONGER CONTINUE OPERATION AS OF SUNDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 2, 2016.

WE WANTED TO THANK EVERYONE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD FOR YOUR LOVE, SUPPORT AND PATRONAGE OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS. YOU HAVE ALL BECOME LIKE FAMILY TO US AND WISH YOU ALL THE BEST! AND A SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR STAFF AND ALSO CYPRESS MARKET AND GUFF FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP.

LASTLY, WE WANTED TO THANK THE BC MINISTRY OF ENERGY FOR SUPPORTING US IN OUR ENDEAVOUR. BREAKING GROUND BY BEING THE FIRST E85 STATION IN BRITISH COLUMBIA WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED HAD OUR PROVINCE NOT BEEN DRIVEN TO BE A LEADER IN THE GREEN MOVEMENT

THIS STATION WAS NEVER INTENDED TO MAKE ANYONE RICH, BUT RATHER, WE WANTED TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE EVEN IF IN A SMALL WAY.$ WE REALLY HOPE THAT OTHER STATIONS AND FUEL PRODUCERS SEE THE BENEFITS OF SUSTAINABLE, RENEWABLE, EARTH FRIENDLY FUELS AND WHAT IT MEANS TO OUR FUTURE. WHILE OUR LITTLE$STATION$CEASES TO EXIST, OUR HOPES AND ASPIRATIONS OF AN ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSCIOUS WORLD WILL NEVER DIE.


THANK YOU,
ARCADE STATION PARTNERS

[GabAlmighty]

Damn sucks to hear :(

[Traum]

Damn... sucks to hear that you guys are ceasing operations...

If you don't mind sharing a bit of where the financial setback is coming from, I would certainly appreciate it. Of course, if you view that as proprietary business info, I'd 100% understand that as well.

Good luck to your future endeavours.

[murd0c]

I take it the setbacks are due to the site needing dispenser and tank upgrades?

[wankeldude2]

I take it the setbacks are due to the site needing dispenser and tank upgrades?

absolutely not.

[wankeldude2]

Damn... sucks to hear that you guys are ceasing operations...

If you don't mind sharing a bit of where the financial setback is coming from, I would certainly appreciate it. Of course, if you view that as proprietary business info, I'd 100% understand that as well.

Good luck to your future endeavours.

can't disclose quite yet. our biggest concern, of course after looking after the staff we just laid off, is arranging to have another station carry on selling E85.

[meme405]

Just came back to bump this when I saw the news on FB. Looks like the owner already did.

Sometimes being right all the time is a curse... :troll:

Seriously though, jokes aside, I laughed in the beginning, then you got it setup and while I had no reason to run the stuff, I know buddies who were thankful to have your station there for when they needed their fuel fix. Sad to see it go down this way.

[vitaminG]

that sucks for anyone who got an e85 tune and/or supporting mods just cause this guy had it. where is the next closest e85? i havent even seen it anywhere in WA

[Manic!]

Quick question did you own the property or where you leasing? You can P.M. me if you don't want it public.

[AzNightmare]

Feel bad for all the guys running on ethanol.
Car is going to feel so weak when they go back to 94 or whatever.

[wankeldude2]

We have started a new Facebook group at the link below in support of E85 fuel in British Columbia. If you are a supporter, consumer, or lover of our cause, please spread the word and add yourself and anyone else you know that does.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/E85FUELBC/

[sporadicMotion]

I know. Necro thread... but I just want to make sure folks know that E85 is available in New West at the Flying J on Braid street. They have the old Arcade setup.

[murd0c]

Northside Petroleum is the company that is now selling the E85, the owner has been a great customer of mine for years.

[Indy]

anybody know if they're still open on saturdays? the last few times I went they were closed.

[murd0c]

anybody know if they're still open on saturdays? the last few times I went they were closed.

I just texted him so I will have the hours they are open shortly.

[murd0c]

They are open selling E85 from

Mon-Friday 6am-5pm
Saturday 10am-2pm
Sunday CLOSED

[320icar]

I know. Necro thread... but I just want to make sure folks know that E85 is available in New West at the Flying J on Braid street. They have the old Arcade setup.

I pass that place anytime I go drive to princess auto, will have to check it out, always assumed it was a card-lock gas station. With my old focus ST I wanted to go e30 tune. Will probably do it with the RS