[Bouncing Bettys]

No good deed goes unpunished.

CBC News - Emma Czornobaj guilty in 2 highway deaths after stopping for ducks (http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.2682200)
Quebec woman convicted of criminal negligence and dangerous driving causing deaths of Andre Roy, 50, daughter

The Canadian Press

Posted:Jun 20, 2014 11:35 AM ET
Last Updated:Jun 20, 2014 4:05 PM ET
http://canadajournal.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Emma-Czornobaj-Quebec-motorist-on-trial-in-ducks-case-272x125.jpg

Emma Czornobaj was convicted in the deaths of two people after she stopped her car on Highway 30, south of Montreal, to help some ducks. Graham Hughes/The Canadian Press

A woman who stopped to help a group of ducklings on the side of the road in 2010 has been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and his passenger daughter who slammed into her parked car on a Montreal-area highway.

Emma Czornobaj was convicted Friday on two counts of criminal negligence causing death and two counts of dangerous driving causing death.

Czornobaj, 25, was charged after Andre Roy, 50, and his daughter, Jessie, 16, were killed.

Roy's motorcycle slammed into Czornobaj's car, which was stopped in the left lane of a provincial highway in Candiac, south of Montreal.

His daughter was riding on the back of the motorcycle when the collision happened on June 27, 2010.

Quebec motorist accused in two deaths said she was helping ducks
Pauline Volikakis, the wife and mother of the two victims, was in court to hear the verdict.

She was following her family on her own motorcycle when the collision occurred.

"My feelings are that it is time that we go on. This will not bring back my loved ones," she said.

The trial heard that Czornobaj, who had three years of driving experience at the time, had stopped to rescue ducklings on the side of the road.

The professed animal lover told the court that she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to capture them and take them home.

Czornobaj's lawyer said the defence will be pushing for no jail time because of the lack of criminal intent.

[multicartual]

Great, now I'm fucking depressed and need alcohol and drugs

[underscore]

There has to be more to this story, how does a stopped car being rear ended result in the stopped car being guilty?

[kunoman1]

When it says she stopped In the left lane, is that the left emergency lane or would that be like parking in the HOV on the highway?

[Timpo]

Jury decision in duck trial. - YouTube
Fatal crash caused by woman stopping for ducks not criminal lawyer - YouTube

[Hot Karl]

i hope she's feeling an appropriate amount of guilt, but not enough to make her kill herself in the future.

i don't know how'd i'd feel if i was friends or family with the victims. talk about senseless tragedy.

[Timpo]

well this is pretty hard case.
it's not like she was texting, DUI, street racing or anything like that.

People do kill ducks because ducks do go across the street like this on the video.

if she stopped to help ducks and prevent people from crashing into it, ironically it worked out oppositely, well i dont know.
because she had no intention of making road more dangerous.

would you leave ducks there or stop your car and make sure other people don't run into it?
i know the video is not on highway, but still..

if she deserves jail time, maybe like 30 days or so. Not 5-10 years like DUI.

Duck Army Marches Single-File Across Street - YouTube

[7seven]

There has to be more to this story, how does a stopped car being rear ended result in the stopped car being guilty?

There is more information in this article Emma Czornobaj found guilty for causing deaths of two bikers when she stopped to save ducks on highway | National Post (http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/20/jury-finds-woman-guilty-for-causing-deaths-of-two-bikers-when-she-stopped-to-save-ducks-on-highway/)

During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she saw Czornobaj on the left-hand side of the highway, bent over and motioning to some ducks.

Czornobaj, a professed animal lover, told the court that she did not see the ducklings’ mother anywhere and planned to capture them and take them home.

“I shouted to my [three] children: ‘What is she doing there? She’s going to get killed,’” Tessier said, adding that Czornobaj was standing on a portion of the highway not wide enough to be used as a shoulder.

Tessier said she noticed that the parked car did not have its hazards on and the driver’s door was open. As she looked back in her rear-view mirror, Tessier said, she could see the back end of Czornobaj’s car lift up in the air.

“I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll,” Tessier said. “I shouted to my daughter to call 911.”


Seems like she was found guilty because she stopped her car on a highway without hazard lights on, leaving the door open and in a dangerous manner I guess? I also wonder if this happened in the evening or dark/low light situation as the pictures from the article of the accident scene seems to be at night. That would be pretty stupid and dangerous to stop your car on a highway at night, blocking a lane without any hazard lights on.

[CharlieH]

bitch was probably thinking about all the likes on facebook she was going to get after saving the ducks. what a fucking moron.

[Timpo]

Guilty, but no jail time due to lack of criminal intent.

Emma Czornobaj guilty in 2 highway deaths after stopping for ducks - News - MSN CA (http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/emma-czornobaj-guilty-in-2-highway-deaths-after-stopping-for-ducks)

[melloman]

Hmmm...

-3 years driving experience.
-Stopped car in fast lane.
-Without hazards on.
-With drivers door open.


For ducks. :pokerface:

She did end up the cause of death for 2 people, which should be punishable. Yet did it like any other mentally handicapped person would've. (Hmmm.. Doesn't say she's retarded though :badpokerface: )

I vote probation and she is never allowed to drive again.

[Timpo]

makes me rethink about getting this one.. I wonder if they have survived if they had this

Motorcycle Airbag Jacket by Hit Air | Motorcycle Parts & Accessories | WingStuff.com - YouTube
TEST JARI 2008 // HIT-AIR SHOCK BUFFERING SYSTEM - YouTube

[El Bastardo]

Guilty, but no jail time due to lack of criminal intent.

Emma Czornobaj guilty in 2 highway deaths after stopping for ducks - News - MSN CA (http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/emma-czornobaj-guilty-in-2-highway-deaths-after-stopping-for-ducks)



....her heart was in the right place. It really was...


...but goddamn that was a poor decision

[StanleyR]

accused is pretty hawt


....that's all I have to say

[Lomac]

Now here's a question... Suppose this woman didn't stop to help the ducks and kept going. The motorcyclist travelling behind her would then have come across said ducks as they were on the road. Would this have been one of those stupid Final Destination type of scenarios where the biker (and passenger) would have died anyway due to either hitting one of the ducks or from attempting to emergency turn around them? Obviously it's purely hypothetical but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

lesson learnt, she'll either not stop for ducks next time or know to pull over properly and have your signals on and all that crap.

going to prison will serve no purpose.

there are a lot of idiots in this thread.

[Presto]

I almost mowed into a family of ducks, yesterday. They are quite brazen in Langley, it seems. They were crossing over from Ricky's to the bank, and then I guess onto the liquor store. Stupid ducks. Bank was closed, and they'll give you cash back at the liquor store, too :P

[mk1freak]

Sadly if someone anywhere ran over ducks especially if there were ducklings, even if it was unsafe to stop, that person would be vilified on social media and whatnot for being heartless and cruel and more than likely be charged with animal cruelty and do time.

[van_city23]

lesson learnt, she'll either not stop for ducks next time or know to pull over properly and have your signals on and all that crap.

going to prison will serve no purpose.

there are a lot of idiots in this thread.

Lesson learnt at the expense of 2 people... yah i don't think people are idiots because of their opinion. I mean if that was my family who died due to her dumb ass actions, I think she should be punished. If we aren't fully accountable for our conscious actions, then why even have laws. But yes, i do agree that going to prison wouldn't solve a purpose or help the victims family feel better. But there has to be some consequence sever enough to recognize the fact that 2 lives were lost due to her stupidity.

[LP700-4]

Makes no sense how the motorcyclist didnt see the car at all.

If it was dark wouldnt the car's headlights be on anyways? Even car door being open would lead to interior lights turning on.

How fast was the motorcycle going for the "back end of the car to lift up in the air"

[$_$]

Lesson learnt at the expense of 2 people... yah i don't think people are idiots because of their opinion. I mean if that was my family who died due to her dumb ass actions, I think she should be punished. If we aren't fully accountable for our conscious actions, then why even have laws. But yes, i do agree that going to prison wouldn't solve a purpose or help the victims family feel better. But there has to be some consequence sever enough to recognize the fact that 2 lives were lost due to her stupidity.

Isn't having two deaths on your conscience not consequence enough? She's going to have to live with that the rest of her life. The images of the car crash , the victims family, learning about who those people were and what they left behind burned into her memory.

That should be punishment enough for any normal, sane, non-socio/psychopathical person.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Lesson learnt at the expense of 2 people... yah i don't think people are idiots because of their opinion. I mean if that was my family who died due to her dumb ass actions, I think she should be punished. If we aren't fully accountable for our conscious actions, then why even have laws. But yes, i do agree that going to prison wouldn't solve a purpose or help the victims family feel better. But there has to be some consequence sever enough to recognize the fact that 2 lives were lost due to her stupidity.

err yah, she was in the involvement of a scenario that caused the death of 2 people and didn't intend it. she has to live with that for the rest of her life. isn't that severe enough?

unless you assume her guilt functions differently and she feels nothing at all and you need to punish her so she can realise what she has done.

I don't think she's that stupid. I'm pretty sure she knows what she did and she doesn't intend to do it again.

that being said. she is only 50% responsible. it takes two to tango. this isn't a stray bullet case. this is a highway, where all motor vehicle operators are licenced and have met a level where the govt deems they are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings and able avoid collisions.

i don't know about you, unless this was at night and they were going really fast, and the parked car had no lights on at all. there isn't really an excuse.

she shouldn't of been parked.
but he should have seen her and avoided the collision.

[flawless]

Kinda curious how far back the motorcycle was when she had pulled over.

[punkwax]

Unfortunate situation, but human life > duck life.

/thread.

[Speed2K]

I also think there's some details missing. If the posted speed was 90 than Emma was probably going that fast but she had time to stop her car, get out and tend to the ducks all before the motorcycle crashed into her car. The witness said she saw Emma on the side of the road so surely it couldn't have been pitched black. Unfortunately the motorcyclist was probably not paying enough attention (not to mention going way too fast with his child riding along) if he plowed into her car going between 105-121kms.

[Vale46Rossi]

makes me rethink about getting this one.. I wonder if they have survived if they had this

Motorcycle Airbag Jacket by Hit Air | Motorcycle Parts & Accessories | WingStuff.com - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQQtdA59bBs)
TEST JARI 2008 // HIT-AIR SHOCK BUFFERING SYSTEM - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdfaq_4p_3U)


That type of jacket is fucking stupid.

Bet you so many people will jump off their bike and forget they were connected and they will just pop.

[bing]

Guilty, but no jail time due to lack of criminal intent.

Emma Czornobaj guilty in 2 highway deaths after stopping for ducks - News - MSN CA (http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/emma-czornobaj-guilty-in-2-highway-deaths-after-stopping-for-ducks)

Nowhere does it say no jail time. It says the DEFENCE is advocating for no jail time. She has been found guilty now on both counts by a jury but the sentencing will take place at a later date by a judge. Jail is still an option.

/reading comprehension

[SkinnyPupp]

err yah, she was in the involvement of a scenario that caused the death of 2 people and didn't intend it. she has to live with that for the rest of her life. isn't that severe enough?

unless you assume her guilt functions differently and she feels nothing at all and you need to punish her so she can realise what she has done.

I don't think she's that stupid. I'm pretty sure she knows what she did and she doesn't intend to do it again.

that being said. she is only 50% responsible. it takes two to tango. this isn't a stray bullet case. this is a highway, where all motor vehicle operators are licenced and have met a level where the govt deems they are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings and able avoid collisions.

i don't know about you, unless this was at night and they were going really fast, and the parked car had no lights on at all. there isn't really an excuse.

she shouldn't of been parked.
but he should have seen her and avoided the collision.
People here smell blood and they are looking for justice with their internet pitchforks. I bet if she was a family member, they'd be singing a different tune.

Humanity is losing its empathy, and this is a perfect example of it.

[sdubfid]

What if an alternator/battery failed? What if she was waiting in a traffic jam? I don't know the circumstances but a car with a door open would be much more noticeable than a car sitting in a traffic jam where there is a sudden change in highway flow. I thought the reason for keeping a safe following distance was to prepare for situations exactly like that.

I remember a few years back this happened and was apparently caused by unsecured cargo falling out of someones truck. Not sure if anybody was charged.
Port Mann motorcycle crash kills two people (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=3ddceeec-c676-475c-bd56-504023a0950d)

[PiuYi]

How fast was the motorcycle going for the "back end of the car to lift up in the air"

the force of a 400lb bike with 2 people on it going 90km/h is most definitely enough to lift the back end of a car up in the air

[van_city23]

People here smell blood and they are looking for justice with their internet pitchforks. I bet if she was a family member, they'd be singing a different tune.

Humanity is losing its empathy, and this is a perfect example of it.

Easy there with the generalizations. Its like Ulic said, there's always 2 sides. I agree, if she was family then there's a different tune. At the same time, if the victims were family, i'm sure you would search for some type of vindication. That's where i agree prison time won't provide that justice but that doesn't mean there should not be any punishment at all. Her having to live with it is tough for her and very unfortunate however, does that provide the vindication for the victim's family? It may or may not. What's the point of having a discussion board if you can't post an opinion. It's not about smelling blood, it's more about contemplating the different perspectives and from the victims side, I would think they would want something in return for the loss of 2 lives.

[underscore]

What if an alternator/battery failed? What if she was waiting in a traffic jam? I don't know the circumstances but a car with a door open would be much more noticeable than a car sitting in a traffic jam where there is a sudden change in highway flow. I thought the reason for keeping a safe following distance was to prepare for situations exactly like that.

I remember a few years back this happened and was apparently caused by unsecured cargo falling out of someones truck. Not sure if anybody was charged.
Port Mann motorcycle crash kills two people (http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=3ddceeec-c676-475c-bd56-504023a0950d)

This is a good point, the motorcyclist hit her after all, and there are plenty of valid reasons to be stopped dead on a highway. So what was the motorcyclist doing to hit an obstacle that other people were able to avoid without difficulty?

[bobbinka]

The situation seems black and white on paper, but it's not. They weren't the only two vehicles on the road when it happened. Yes, it would be upsetting to some if a family of ducks got run over, but is it really worth the risk/danger not only to yourself but to everyone else on the road? After witnessing a similar situation (that could have ended MUCH worse than this one, but didn't), I will never stop on a highway unless absolutely necessary (i.e. emergency).

Coming off the Alex Fraser Bridge on the 91, heading west towards Richmond, right where traffic from the Queensborough also merge onto the 91, there are 3 lanes on the highway. This was during the day in broad daylight with traffic flowing decently at normal speeds (100km/h). As I come down in the far left lane, I see traffic in the middle lane abruptly come to a sudden stop, and a few cars that couldn't stop in time swerve/cut into my lane. Within seconds, the left lane is now slowed to a roll, and the middle lane is at a complete stop. I could hear tires screeching from behind. It took another few seconds before I could see that there was a guy on the f'in highway chasing ducks to try to get them to safety. He was standing in the middle lane and chasing them to the right side of the highway.... and the moment he chased them into the right lane, three cars in the right lane (that were still coming down at highway speeds) came screeching to a stop. Behind them, an 18 wheeler semi-truck coming down the highway COULD NOT stop in time and swerved onto the shoulder of the highway.

Good intention does not equate good decision. Had that 18 wheeler not been able to swerve into the shoulder, or had there been no shoulder and a concrete barrier instead, we would've said bye-bye to the "good samaritan", bye-bye to the ducks, and possibly to a bunch of other drivers on the road.

Even if the highway was empty with nothing between the girl's stopped car and the motorcyclist, the rate at which you approach a completely non-moving object while going highway speed will be very fast. Throw in a couple cars in between that block your view and don't swerve out of the way till the last second, the motorcyclist would've had no chance to stop in time. Keep in mind that a motorcycle requires a greater stopping distance than a car. If you grab the brakes too abruptly, you'll either get thrown off (along with your daughter) or the brakes will lock up and you + bike will go sliding down the highway either into the stopped vehicle, or get run over by traffic from behind.

It's a highway. It was designed for greater speeds and less stops. You can be the safest driver in the world, but naturally you would not expect someone to completely stop in the middle of the highway.

*not everyone on the road has full visibility of EVERYTHING ahead. The car in front of you is blocking the view, and the car in front of them is blocking their view. From the first car onwards, every car that abruptly brakes will have less and less reaction time, while requiring a greater stopping power (holding that everyone is travelling at the same speeds).

[Timpo]

Here's a contradiction...

Can someone explain this?

This woman was found guilty because she stopped for ducks.
Then a motorcycle smashed into her.

Here's a question..who is at fault? The answer is, the rider who rear ended her.

In this VERY PARTICULAR CASE...she stopped for ducks.
What if she had to stop for something other than ducks...like traffic jam?

She was found guilty because she did NOT put hazard lights on...
But if she had to stop due to traffic jam, other people's broken down car, random pedestrians, slamming on brake suddenly due to deer/bear crossing, then NO HAZARD LIGHTS REQUIRED.
But if you're stopping for ducks? MUST PUT HAZARD LIGHTS ON
what if it was something other ducks? deer, bear, raccoon, random kids walking on highway, etc.

As someone mentioned...maybe the motorcycle was not paying attention.

[Manic!]

Here's a contradiction...

Can someone explain this?

This woman was found guilty because she stopped for ducks.
Then a motorcycle smashed into her.

Here's a question..who is at fault? The answer is, the rider who rear ended her.

In this VERY PARTICULAR CASE...she stopped for ducks.
What if she had to stop for something other than ducks...like traffic jam?

She was found guilty because she did NOT put hazard lights on...
But if she had to stop due to traffic jam, other people's broken down car, random pedestrians, slamming on brake suddenly due to deer/bear crossing, then NO HAZARD LIGHTS REQUIRED.
But if you're stopping for ducks? MUST PUT HAZARD LIGHTS ON
what if it was something other ducks? deer, bear, raccoon, random kids walking on highway, etc.

As someone mentioned...maybe the motorcycle was not paying attention.

Brake lights buddy brake lights.

[bobbinka]

We don't know who's fault it is because we don't know the exact circumstances. We'd like to think we do, but we don't, so let's not be so quick to assign blame.

moral of the story: don't stop for ducks

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

isn't the moral of the story, watch where you're going? haha... wouldn't that be a better universal rule... than not to stop for ducks...

[bobbinka]

watching where you're going doesnt automatically mean you'll be able to stop in time

[jinxcrusader]

Brake lights buddy brake lights.

Keepin neutral on a flat surface or slowly creeping forward at lowest rpms on first gear? pretty similar